The Ministry of Defence replaced its fleet of BAe146 transport aircraft with two new Dassault Falcon 900LX business jets; it’s now looking to include a number of military modifications to the aircraft.
Phase one of the project was the procurement of the two new civil jets with an in-service support package that runs until Sep 2026. These aircraft are owned by the MoD but operated on the Civil Aircraft Register (CAR) and are being initially operated by a contractor.
Phase one also includes the training of military pilots and cabin crew and the use of these service personnel to complement the civilian pilots in the delivery of the service.
Phase two is a separate competitive procurement for the embodiment of military modifications onto the aircraft, from 1 Oct 2026 (subject to further take-up of contract options), and provision of in-service support through to Apr 2037, utilising military personnel in the operation of the aircraft, under the Military Aircraft Register (MAR).
The contract Notice that is the subject of this article is concerned exclusively with Phase two.
According to a Royal Air Force statement:
“Two new Dassault 900LX aircraft have been purchased to replace the BAe146 aircraft that were withdrawn from Service in March. The new Envoy aircraft will be based at RAF Northolt with No 32 (The Royal) Squadron, initially under contract with Centreline AV Ltd. For the first two years, the aircraft will be operated by mixed crews of RAF and Centreline staff, before upgrading to a full military and operational capability in 2024.
The name reflects the role of the aircraft in defence diplomacy and relationship building. The original Envoy aircraft in RAF service was known as the Envoy III. It was a twin-engine light transport aircraft, used by the RAF before and during World War 2 in the communications role; one of which served with the ‘King’ s Flight’ – a precursor to today’s No 32 (The Royal) Squadron.”
And according to the contract notice.
“The current CSAT fleet consists of 2 x Envoy IV Aircraft (Dassault Falcon 900LX) based at RAF Northolt. Although the Envoy IV are currently operated on the Civilian Aircraft Register (CAR), the intention is to transfer Envoy IV onto the Military Aircraft Register (MAR) prior to the start of the new contract.
Scope comprises two key requirements:
1. Provision of a fully inclusive in-service support solution to support and maintain the Envoy IV Aircraft through to planned OSD of Apr 2037, utilising military personnel in the operation of the aircraft.
2. Design and embodiment of military modifications onto the aircraft and ensure certification of airworthiness under MAR, to enable the aircraft to be operated in military airspace and in a non-benign environment. The modifications will be subject to the outcome of a requirements review.
The contract shall be for a term of 5 (five) initial years with options to extend by a further 6 (six) years (taken in single or multiple year intervals).”
The £135,000,000 to £150,000,000 estimated contract value is inclusive of the above options.
It one thing I’m glad the Tory’s did is sort out the VIP aircraft, quite frankly it’s was embarrassing when the leader of the country with the second biggest aviation industry in the world rocks in on a Africa operated Boeing that’s unfit to fly in European airspace.
No way Labour was ever going to be able to splash tax payers cash on such a statement.
It should have been part of the airtanker plan from the start.
Buying French aircraft to carry our “Leader” is not embarrassing then ?
Are you suggesting these aircraft should be Tanker capable or merely saying that our leader should have flown by Voyager each time ?
I’m talking about the Voyager a330 and the A321 aircraft off course not these Dassault jets.
What is more embarrassing is that the country with the “second biggest aviation industry” doesn’t produce a single passenger jet and has to buy from France.
I’ll take wing manufacturing and jet engines any day of the week over assembly. Much of Airbus is assembled in China and the US anyway. Almost all the wings are made in the UK and all the large Aerojet engines are RR as well.
Its nonsense to think that any country including the US produces entire aircraft products these days.
“Much of Airbus is assembled in China and the US”
What a load of complete bollocks
Unfortunately he is right about that, at least in respect of China
What he says is very much true…final assembly for the US market is in the US, final assembly for the Asian markets is in china and the European market is in France and Germany…wings and engines are made in the UK.
I don’t think any aircraft company in the world has ever produced every last piece of an aircraft, even the majors such as Boeing or Airbus, as you say, don’t make everything.
But the point is about a country that both designs and builds complete advanced military or civil aircraft.
Saab of Sweden (tiny country, pop 10m) can do it – we can’t.
Saab stopped being able to manufacture commercial jets before BAE did.
You cannot be a world leader in every single thing, basing an entire industry off whether you make a business jet or not is just oversimplification
I was thinking more about military jets; Saab make the Gripen.
You are right that Saab stopped making civil airliners in 1999.
Well said, it’s a global village, like it or not, even when neighbours fall out. It’s the economic spread of manufacturing parts that matters. Sadly many of the commentators on this site live in a dewy eyed nostalgia for a 1950s that never actually existed. The British aviation industry barely got through that decade. And to correct those who like to dig at Labour, it was the Tories who did for it all… Sandys etc. The Labour govt of late 60s inherited an industry already in terminal decline.. not helped by the Americans of course, who hated TSR2 and Concorde..… Read more »
In all my years reading stuff and commentating on here, I’ve never seen anyone being all “Dewy eyed or nostalgic for a 1950’s that never existed…. I’m pretty sure the 50’s followed on from the 40’s and were succeeded by the 60’s … Not sure if you are aware of the many fantastic designs conceived and built in this period….. 🤔 And as for anyone “wishing the RAF still flew tactically brilliant mix of Sopwith Camels and Spitfires and the (Royal) Navy had 300 fully rigged corvettes complete with sails and bunting”…….Sorry again but no-one has ever said that… ever.… Read more »
Is that you mate? 😉
👌😄
Thought so.
It’s the dots lol……………. 😂
Thank you for replying. We did have some fantastic designs, but some poor ones as well. The Scimitar was only just OK, the Sea Vixen and Javelin were quickly obsolete. Yes there were greats like the Hunter and the Canberra – although I remember a Canberra pilot at Laarbruch (1970ish) telling me he’d really rather have the Mosquito than the Buccaneer which were just arriving. He was only half joking. All our best designs apart from perhaps Concorde and P1127 really dated from the 50s – and early 50s too. We were left behind. Let’s be honest – much as… Read more »
For the love of god, please choose something better than Gall-Peters.
Ha,ha, it really make us feel small, we really are such a tiny dot on the world with pretensions to a past that was not all that glorious. My schoolboy Mercator world map was red with blood, after all. Equal area is the only worthwhile kind of projection, unless you’re navigating. I certainly wouldn’t have used one for that in my pilot days!
Sure, but there are other, older, and much better Equal Area projections! Mollweide, for example. I prefer a compromise myself – Waterman or Cahill-Keyes. Also have a soft spot for the Antarctic centred Peirce Quincuncial
I bow before superior knowledge – I shall have to look them all up. Thanks! I really must have an Antarctic centred Peirce Quincuncial just for the name!
I have too much Humour for this place mate…. It’s hard not to refrain myself at times…. I do think we had some terrific aircraft in the 50’s though, don’t forget EE Lightnings, Vulcans, Hunters, Valiants Victors and the simply brilliant Folland Gnat !!! to name but a few.
Yes, they were, and I desperately wanted to fly all of them when I was kid, but they are now ancient history, friends. It was all over by 1970… after that it’s been collaboration (the Hawk being one noble exception, and perhaps the BAe146? though maybe different ideas on that one, and US engines anyway.) This is what I mean by nostalgia… yes, some great memories, but the reality is we’re quarter of the way through the 21st century, not 3/4 the way through the 20th. Todays young pilots were barley born at the turn of the century. Sandys wasn’t… Read more »
So he was wrong then and massively so …misguided (no pun intended) at best- and it sounded the final death knell for British areospace industry…Naught but a jumped up Battery gunner. I think we should stop all aircarft purchases until we can field a squadron of x-fighters with lasers..am I wrong as it will surely happen ..at some point…you get my drift. But yes I get your drift regards the nostalgia -but nothing wrong with that taken in context. Maybe we can go some way to reviving the industry with Tempest, if it ever gets off the drawing board- and… Read more »
TSR2 was expensive and Labour preferred to support social programmes than higher end aerospace jobs, thats all there is to it. Labours election campaign featured the cancellation of TSR2 . Btw they also wanted to cancel Concorde but contract clauses meant they would have still funded a fully French Concorde meant the Wilson government didn’t go ahead. The Tories withstood pressure from the US so Labour could have done.
I totally agree – But I think the role of the US in the demise of TSR2 is still not widely know, though. And in many ways time to forgive – but not forget… because we need to keep our friends close 😉 If Trumpism comes back we’ll be cut adrift for sure. What I do think, looking back, is just how tired and worn out the UK was into 70s. In many ways it took that long for the cost of “winning” 2 world wars to work its way through. Germany “won” by losing, in many ways, and America… Read more »
Interesting view…infact the british airo industry of the 1950s was huge and to say it was barely hanging on just not true….what put the nail in the coffin of the british airo industry was: 1) The 1957 defence white paper..which may have been the hight of national self sabotage when the MOD and HMG inexplicably decided that piloted military aircraft were no longer required and the next war would be entirely missile based….who needs aircraft when you have missiles. This cancelled almost the entire future development and building programme of the UK airo industry…killing 5 new aircraft projects and delaying… Read more »
Thanks, I agree with you entirely – and yes of course the 50s was a great time for British Aviation ( I didn’t mean to suggest otherwise).. but it got snookered, exactly as you say. Thanks – you summed it all so clearly. Two lessons that every industry, not just aviation, needs to learn is 1) that we always need diversity and 2) that slack in the system is not inefficiency, it’s actually vital for anything that isn’t very short term. This is why so many business, NHS and schools can’t cope with anything out of the ordinary… slack is… Read more »
Yes completely agree…unfortunately the UK airo industry was dependent on the government ( although I would say they all were..it’s just other governments did not get a massive dose of stupid like HMG did )…unfortunately HMG still does the same thing…strategic industries need protecting and nurturing…letting the market dictate when every other nation on the planet is protecting their own strategic industries is just madness…also agree on the need for slack….hospitals are a classic..all the studies on efficient effective hospitals show they can only function well at around. 90% capacity ( that’s the sweet spot) as you need 10% of… Read more »
Yep, full agreement from me.
The British aerospace industry was in need of rationalisation. I would say the single worst decision by any Government for the aerospace industry was Labours decision to nationalise it, thereby reducing it to just 1 company. Both companies were swimming in work, they could easily have survived on their own. Rationalisation into one company destroyed competition. That finally ended up with BAE destroying the whole commercial aircraft building industry in the UK.
I’m of that age that O can name of Harold Wilson’s cabinet that Rushi’s! Nationalisation was a disaster for the aviation industry. Wilson wisely kept us out of Vietnam – but maybe at the price of TSR2? Historians, please?
The thing is by the 60s the future was thought to be missiles. So I doubt things would have turned out differently with another party in power.
Oddly were far more defensive over our shipbuilding industry than our aircraft industry.
It is also nonsense to describe the UK aviation industry as the second biggest in the world. It hasn’t developed a new military aircraft since the Hawk( except in joint ventures) nor a civil one since the BAE146, both projects initiated @ 50 years ago.
Actually, I looked it up and It’s true. It’s all about the wording “industry”…. Wings, Engines and much other stuff.
The mark of being the second largest aviation industry will be based on revenue, not on how many business jets you manufacture.
It’s not nonsense, it’s fact! Joint ventures are still aircraft and we are involved with a lot of them from a leading design point of view and very heavily involved with manufacture of Airbus airliners, Typhoon, F-35 Lightning just to name 3!
Second biggest based on what out of what? Depending on the metric the UK is somewhere between 5th and 10th, and miles behind the top few. Not seen any indicating 2nd.
A simple Google search will confirm that British Aerospace Industry is in fact the second largest in the World. I didn’t believe it either.
Can you link as I couldn’t see it? What I read was US, ,China, India, France
Then you are not looking properly!
Where is the link? I will be happily proven wrong but I can’t find it. If talking specific companies or specific sub sectors maybe but overall seems well below 2nd. But maybe I’m missing something
United Kingdom – Aerospace and Defense (trade.gov)
Interesting. These figures are not aligned with any other official sources I could find and it doesn’t explain the basis so hard to validate, too many different ways to define how big an industry is.
Pretty much everything I found online ranks aerospace industries based on exports which of course isn’t the way you would rank them based on size.
Britain also has a lot more SMEs in the aerospace industry than other European countries, which a lot of these rankings may struggle to include as there are thousands of them.
Jim if Labour get in at the next election I just hope that the 2 VIP jets are upgraded with an outside toilet .
🤣🤣😂
A bit rich that some of them have had a moan that VIP aircraft have been used to attend events. They are often necessary, you cannot just take a scheduled airline like some suggest, nor should VVIP have to.
Daniele my reply was just a little festive fun for the run up to Georges ” Festive thunder run” next week mine was just the warm up act .
I know it was mate, Abbott and Mcdonald can use that WC for starters!
Have issue with calling ANY politician ‘VVIP’ at most d$ckHead or Prat
Leaders and Money are the two biggest problems that Humankind has ever come up with.
I agree. But they do need secure transport for all sorts of security reasons.
Aparently Rushi didn’t fit in the Titan Airways shower which needed to be enlarged… but then after 13 years or whatever only the Tories can take the blame for defence cuts. We’ll see what Sir Keir does next year. We might be surprised. But we need to pay more tax. Unless we can fund the Armed Forces on a pay-as-go basis.
Zero hours contract if you don’t fight you don’t get paid would be one on the books if Corbyn was still Labour leader thank the Lord he is no longer leader of the opposition 🙏
Now that’s not true at all, Corbin hated zero hours contracts…but he also hates armies and militaries…so there would have been around a 1000 lads and lasses with proper contracts..just for when the UN need a few people to pop on the blue hats you understand…not for actual defence or anything to barbaric.
Without Ammunition in their weapons as well ,as when he said having the V class nuclear deterrent boats out on patrol without their main means of deterrent their Trident missiles on-board bless him
“quite frankly it’s was embarrassing when the leader of the country with the second biggest aviation industry in the world rocks in on a Africa operated Boeing that’s unfit to fly in European airspace.” But when the leader of the country with the second biggest aviation industry in the world “rocks in” (as you put it) in a French jet that replaced the British jet they used to use, that’s all just fine is it?
Well the UK could have bought Hawker 900, most of which was still made in the UK, up to 2011. Or we could have bought Belfast built Learjet 75, that went out of production not that long ago. We did not. Spirit (Shorts) still makes some bits for Bombardier Global jets. We did not buy those either.
Hawker 900 production line was moved to the US when Raytheon bought BAEs business jet side of the business. Learjet 75 wasn’t assembled in Belfast but had some components built there.
The only site in the UK that has significant parts that it builds for business jets is Belfast which manufactures fuselages for Bombardier. 2 aircraft aren’t going to make any difference and the aircraft aren’t assembled there anyway.
Big chunks of the Hawker 900 were still made in UK & shipped to the US to be fitted out. The Belfast connection with Learjet, was why the Eire government bought the earlier 45 model. If there was any national will, the UK could have helped build the stillborn Learjet 85 in Belfast (rather than Mexico).
Both of those aircraft are quite a bit smaller than the Dassault 900.
If the Government thought it would’ve looked better or created jobs they would’ve ordered Challenger 350 or 650. The fact its centre fuselage is made in Belfast would not change the outcome that it’s a Canadian jet and practically zero jobs in the UK are created by 2 aircraft.
The Dassault 900 is smaller than the BAE 146 they replaced.
Don’t forget the symbolism which is way more than 2 aircraft. The idea was that UK VIP’s flying around in British, or failing that part British, aircraft, is an advert for UK aerospace & helps drum up export orders.
I have no issues with our Canadian cousins. They are part of the Commonwealth. 32 Sqn equipped with 2x Global 5500 + 2x Learjet 75 Liberty, would have been a good option in 2020, when dishi Rishi was spraying Covid money around like it was going out of fashion.
There are no British commercial aircraft other than BN Islander available. There is nothing the Government can do about that other than help make sure BN and Cranfields net zero regional airliners succeed, or try and encourage another airliner using ZeroAvia or GKN net zero engines.
There will never be another British commercial jet that isn’t Hydrogen powered. BAE destroyed the British commercial aircraft industry.
Airbus Corporate Jets, still have British Content. ACJ220 would be a good BAE 146 replacement.
The highest value item on an aircraft that the UK makes would be its engine. Although BR700 is made in Germany, the profits will go back to the UK. The Global 6500 has probably the most value as the forward fuselage and engine nacelles are made in Belfast.
I would be quite happy to see Global 5500/6500, in service with 32 sqn.
How odd that this capability wasn’t allowed to be gapped…
I am so glad you spelt “Gapped” with two P’s.😱 😂
There are two factors here.
Cost and security.
Flying the large airbus VIP on short haul will be crazy expensive. So I get why smaller options that burn less fuel and capital costs make sense.
Security is golden you need military security levels for VIP travel.
Defensive mods are essential – there are a lot of crazies out there with shoulder launched nasties.
Flag waving is diplomatically quite important – to be fair Tony Blair understood this but Gordon Brown cancelled Blair Force One.
The VVIP Voyager, now repainted in global Britain livery, rather than its original grey drab scheme, is now called Vespina!
What was Blair Force One going to be?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/inside-blair-force-one-516151.html
Thanks SB. Interesting.
just a “Vespa”. 😂
I still have a Vespa PX200E, the old iconic style with a nod to some porsche input and not forgetting the radical engine design.
Simple elegance and class.
As a life long Biker, I love everything two wheeled (apart from the Harley junk) Got a mint Aprilia Tuono, the Italians sure do know how to build brilliant Bikes.
On a slightly more shallow note, I hope to god these upgrades include replacement of this gaudy livery. ‘If ITV3 designed an aircraft’. Honestly it was better just plain RAF.
Why do I get the impression so often we pay through the nose for everything?
I know it includes through life support and the crews, but that much? For 2 planes? No wonder so little goes on kit.
It is a bit vague what is in the contract so quite hard to judge.
Is it the MOD that should pay for this. The duel role aircraft ok but perhaps who ever uses them should pay for each flight. PM flights come out his budget, defence sec comes out MOD, transport sec comes out dept of transport and so on.
And we the Taxpayers fund all of it.
Well, who else? Government and defence.. it’s all from the same source… from tax!
Yes mate, I just wanted to add the fact that ultimately it’s us Tax payers that fund the departments mentioned……
Absolutely right.
& debt, which is future tax.
Indeed, we have left our grandchildren a vast debt because we borrowed on the future to pay our over unrealistic standard of living, pensions etc. Our children don’t stand a chance of paying it off, as they’re all doing the same (you can tell I’m old!)l Not real conservatism at all, borrowing on futures, I was brought up to pay my way, save up first and so on… but the governments – successively, and all colours, didn’t do that. And it’s hard to avoid doing what everybody else does.
With all these new arrivals coming to the UK for work ? Wages will be under cut and it will fall on our Grandchildrens ,Grandchildren too settle the debt we have amassed the days of either make hay when the sunshines. Or saving for a rainy day have long gone
You and me both. I don’t begrudge high taxes necessarily but we seem to get such incredibly poor value for money per £ spent when compared to other countries for whatever reason. It is maddening
Other countries do not get better value for money than we do. That’s a total myth. If the contract includes fitting defensive aids and secure communications. That doesn’t come cheap.
That just doesn’t pass the smell test at all. For instance the NHS swallows up £168bn p.a. and is extremely poor
Compared to what metric? Do have any examples of excellent value for money from other nations doing something similar? Through life support costs are also expensive.
It does look jolly expensive. They will need a standard defensive suite for sure, but that is surely a small part of the total. The clue perhaps lies in this ‘in-service support “solution’. Is this accounting speak for contracting out the maintenance to a private supplier? The accountants have managed to convince the MOD that, if you take into account the cost of service personnel, it is cheaper to get an outside contractor to do the job. I’m sure they have a long list of the supposed savings, starting with pensions and accommodation and including every possible cost, right down… Read more »
I agree, I dislike privitisation of everything. I prefer inhouse wherever possible.
If the pandemic taught us anything it was that sovereign capability matters. As soon as you go civil you get the possibility of takeover by anybody with cash.including the CCP. Obviously they wouldn’t be acceptable directly but ownership is complex despite Anti Money Laundering law…
We had 6 BAE 146s doing this job, now 32 Sqn is to do it with 2.
Its main role was always transport for senior commanders, plus the VVIP role for the senior Royal family, PM, key cabinet ministers and civil servants.
6 aircraft was possibly too many, 4 would give us 2 operational, I in maintenance and 1 for training/reserve, might get away with that.
But 2??? It means you have just ONE operational aircraft and could maybe rush out a second one in extremis.
What a paltry level the services have been reduced to.
There are the 2 Airbus operated by “Titan” used by HMG too. Plus the Voyager.
Indeed. But I would guess the vast majority of travel is smaller parties, maybe a service commander and staff, foreign office party, Minister and staff, specialist service personnel, maybe SIS and SF guys on occasions.
The Envoy carries up to 19 passengers. Its range reaches Tallinn, Akrotiri, Muscat, even Nairobi. It has got to be a heck of a lot cheaper flying in a small biz jet than an Airbus A330!
It’s a good point mate. No doubt 2 is too few, as always.
I have used the same point ‘re getting rid of the Hercs. Some roles involve small teams, either SIS or SF, and an Atlas is also quite frankly ludicrous for those too.
32Sqn used to have 2 x 146’s, 3-4 Andovers couple Gazelles and I think 8-10 HS125’s, 146’s were VVIP usually Royals (QE always fm LHR as she didn’t like NHT) 2 Andovers had ramp and used to do schedule admin flight to Wildenrath and the 125’s used to 1-4 * plus ministers in NW Europe. Can usnder stand replacing the Andovers with PCF 146’s for maintenace/support pilot competance etc but still needed to have small jets for short hops
Those were the days eh! And Andovers at Benson.
Hi DM . A few ex RAF Andovers found their way to the RNZAF .They were around until the early 2000s.
It goes further than that last (or October perhaps) month it went directly to Washington, then Anchorage, Alaska, and then back via Gander or Halifax (forget which)!
HIDM- is the Titan option still in play? I imagine the A321 are leased case by case and are not on 32 sqns books?
Yes, AFAIK. Indeed, they’re not with 32!
cheers Mate!
There were 4 BAE 146’s on 32 Sqn, never 6. (2 ex Queens Flight and 2 C3’s) The 2 Envoy IV CC1’s should be serviceable pretty much 100% of the time.
If the two Envoys ‘will be serviceable pretty much 100% of the time’, then this is a fantastic buy, because they will be the only aircraft in the RAF fleet to achieve this amazing availability feat. Aircraft unfortunately need to be pulled out of service for regular maintenance and repair. And for pilot and aircrew training. And when pilot or chief engineer are not available, they do get leave and get ill and get posted away for training and courses. And when they are doing trials and tests, because you don’t have an OEU when you only have 2 aircraft.… Read more »
Another story regards RAF VIP transport: Rishi Sunak intervened to ensure VIP helicopter contract was not cancelled Rishi Sunak personally intervened to stop the scrapping of a contract providing VIP helicopter transport for himself and senior ministers, it has emerged. Earlier this year, Ben Wallace, the former defence secretary, ended a £40m contract for two private helicopters used by politicians and senior defence staff, which are crewed by RAF personnel and based at the Northolt airbase in west London. The contract was due to come to a close at the end of September. A report on page 12 of the latest edition… Read more »
Another story regards RAF VIP transport: Rishi Sunak intervened to ensure VIP helicopter contract was not cancelled Rishi Sunak personally intervened to stop the scrapping of a contract providing VIP helicopter transport for himself and senior ministers, it has emerged.Earlier this year, Ben Wallace, the former defence secretary, ended a £40m contract for two private helicopters used by politicians and senior defence staff, which are crewed by RAF personnel and based at the Northolt airbase in west London. The contract was due to come to a close at the end of September. A report on page 12 of the latest… Read more »
Does uk need fanciest plane on the tarmac?
Could we not use the 5 mothballed , new EC135, that are sitting idle? 2 for VIP, the other 3 as Army runarounds.
Forgot some got mothballed. I was hoping that the HX-50 would considered for the VIP role.
HX-50 looks good, but they need a twin engine type to fly over London.
John wrote: “Could we not use the 5 mothballed , new EC135, that are sitting idle? 2 for VIP, the other 3 as Army runarounds.” Meanwhile this was reported last month: UK to acquire H145 helicopters for Cyprus, Brunei missions The United Kingdom is to acquire six new Airbus Helicopters H145 rotorcraft to be used in Cyprus and Brunei. The Ministry of Defence (MoD) published a transparency notice of the intended procurement on 13 November, saying that six helicopters are to be acquired along with three years of support for an estimated GBP140 million (USD172 million). Known as Jupiter… Read more »
This was a good move. Means FMH can concentrate on its core role, it’s not needed in Brueni or Cyprus.
Don’t see why we should be embarrassed about senior politicians of whatever political persuasion using corporate jets or helicopters. Like any senior executive they often need to be in several places in quick succession. They would never accomplish that using public transport. It would seem the UK VIP fleet is small compared with others, possibly too small. Good point made in an earlier comment about the VIP helicopter capability not being gapped!
Agreed. The calls by certain individuals, both in and out of politics, to scrap or use commercial, when other nations happily operate VIP aircraft and in numbers much greater than this, are a bit sad.
The fuss made on Twitter a few years back when the RAF dared to put a flag on a Voyager is an example. The lady’s issue was the flag itself, not the costs.
So sorry that this nation actually has an identity and a flag that highlights that.
Identity is important, no matter what some on the loony left may say.
aaah but they forgot add a LGBT rainbow flag -that makes everyting ok in fairly land!
🙄🤪
I can’t see how these sums add up.
The equipped cost of 2 Falcon 900LX is, according to Wiki, about £72m. How on earth can we be paying an additional £135m to add a defensive suite and no doubt some twiddly bits? That near-enough trebles the cost.
It has to be a big chunk – far too big IMO – going out to private contractors for training and maintenance. No wonder our udgets are so stretched if we splash out money like this.
Spot, we rely too much on private companies who just fleece us
5 years contractor-provided maintenence will be very expensive.
I am not a party political animal but when I read comments like, if labour were in ….. I think we have just watched a huge reduction in our armed forces overall. How big the the UK’s defence force now (Army) how many main battle tanks are we upgrading…..
Slightly OT. Considering Britain gets such poor value for money and terrible ‘bang for buck’ when it comes to, not only military procurement, but procurement in general, is it time that as a Nation we had a discussion about abandoning the Pound and adopting the Dollar as our currency? Would it result in better value for money and make our money go further, especially when purchasing from the US, for example? $GBD ‘Great British Dollar’.
£1 currently buys $1.27’s …. Do the Math ! 😂
Dollarisation of an economy poses enormous issues in relation to loss of monetary control and that is evaporates foreign exchange reserves. Not to mention that the dollar has worse buying power than the £
No.
A bit OT, but NL on X(twitter) have put up a phot of HMS Somerset returning to Plymouth with NSM canisters fitted, or more accurately termed Maritime Offensive Strike System – MOSS it appears!
MOSS and RUST ! 😂
Mate, are you on the FB NL site ? I find it Hilarious reading most of the comments…. This NSM thread has already got me in stiches…. It would be great to see you on there and maybe we could do the Friend request thing, I’ve always wanted to say hello to you !
Hi Frank, sorry no I’m not on FB, got to draw the line somewhere mate.
Not sure if George would be able to, but would be happy for him to pass on my email address if you asked.
I’m on FB mate, look me up. 😊
Let’s hope they buy a fleet of Hill Helicopters HX-50 as the replacement VIP helicopters. But that’s wishful thinking.
Just an idea (Link).
It doesn’t really matter if they do or not. Hill helicopters already has over a thousand orders and is looking at production rates of 500 a year and later on up to 1,000 a year. An order of 2 is irrelevant for them. MOD should just go for the best helicopter.
I did acknowledge that it was wishful thinking. Unless I have missed other market material on production numbers, their website puts the production number at 750+. 1000 years haha.
It’s not really about wishing the MOD bought it, it’s that it just doesn’t matter if they do. Hill recently surpassed 1000 orders and is looking for a production rate of 500 a year by 2028 and a ceiling of 1,000 a year. 2 more aircraft is childs play for them.
I don’t have the price for a Falcon 900, but the model below, 2000lxs is $35m & the model above , 6x, is $47m. So £135m for training & maintenance for five years, seems excessive.
Hello mate… are your Dollars supposed to be Euro’s or pounds ? It’s only a small thing but it does make a difference !
Civil aircraft tend to be priced in US Dollars, even if they are not made in USA.
The quoted price of a Dassault Falcon 900LX is $44m.
First of all – it’s shameful that we have to operate foreign machines to move our leaders around. Secondly, in times of austerity why can’t they use airlines. Most importantly when the country is cash strapped wouldn’t that money be put to better use on the frontline services?
Does seem quite expensive to me, a mere trench digging peasant from the Army, and I know it’s a long term through life contract, but 135 mil for two platforms tut tut would seem a bit gold plated (literally I hope not)! Well as I drive past Northolt a lot, I may see and wave (wonder if they have small cells in the hold to transport to Guantanamo bay?) Cheers
I am far far from being able to afford a private plane but aren’t these normally sold in the tens of million range and not hundreds of millions. Where is the rest going?
As far as I can see, this £135m is not to buy 2 x business jets – it is to do some mil mods on them and support them for 5 years.
The question is that given the stretched MOD budget why does this money come out of the defence budget ? Being a taxi service in essence to a bunch of politicians and officials going abroad surely should come out of the Foreign Office coffers ? And for those who think it’s a stain on national pride that they are not whizzing around in Concorde quite frankly if they arrived in C152 at least they would be demonstrating they are cognitive of the financial problems of a large section of UK society today.
That’s it, focus on the VIP’s and forget about the junior ranks who are living in rotten conditions, riddled with damp, no heating or running hot water. Brilliant. No wonder the military is losing so many people Tri-Service wide and can’t even retain not only the new joiners but now the experienced. Toxic system
So spending 4times the price of a new one yo upgrade them 👍🏻👍🏻 that makes sense