Russia recently deployed fighter aircraft to Libya to support Russian state-sponsored private military contractors, U.S. officials have announced.
The Russian fighter aircraft arrived in Libya from an airbase in Russia after transiting Syria, where U.S. officials assessed that they were repainted to hide their origins.
“The Russian fighter aircraft arrived in Libya from an air base in Russia after transiting Syria, where Africom officials assess they were repainted to camouflage their Russian origin.”
Russia now reportedly has at least 14 combat aircraft in Libya, suggesting a major intervention in the country.
“Russian military aircraft are likely to provide close air support and offensive fires for the Wagner Group PMC, which is supporting the Libyan National Army’s fight against the internationally recognized government of national accord, Africom officials said in a news release. The Russian fighter aircraft arrived in Libya from an air base in Russia after transiting Syria, where Africom officials assess they were repainted to camouflage their Russian origin.”
U.S. officials say that Russia has employed state-sponsored Wagner in Libya to conceal its direct role and to afford Moscow plausible deniability.
“Russia is clearly trying to tip the scales in its favor in Libya. Just like I saw them doing in Syria, they are expanding their military footprint in Africa using government-supported mercenary groups like Wagner,” said Army Gen. Stephen Townsend, Africom’s commander.
“For too long, Russia has denied the full extent of its involvement in the ongoing Libyan conflict. Well, there is no denying it now. We watched as Russia flew fourth-generation jet fighters to Libya — every step of the way. Neither the LNA nor private military companies can arm, operate and sustain these fighters without state support — support they are getting from Russia.”
“If Russia seizes basing on Libya’s coast, the next logical step is they deploy permanent long-range anti-access area-denial capabilities,” said Air Force Gen. Jeff Harrigian, commander of U.S. Air Forces in Europe-Air Forces Africa.
Apparently over 1000 Wagner mercenaries had to be evacuated after a GNA attack forced them out south of Tripoli. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-52811093
That probably explains the build up of Russian Air Force power in country.
Bad enough that the Russians have got away with turning the tidy in Syria, but given its proximity to Malta and the narrow central region of the Med, Libya in under Russian control is a serious challenge to NATO.
Not sure how we should respond given that risk that we tend to end up being drawn into long and costly conflicts, but we need to find away to counter Russias new aggressive stance.
Yep I totally agree. I suppose arming the GNA with stingers is not a good option either considering its a Muslim nation.NATO might have to react by Air power, I did hear some where we have SAS over there.
Special Forces are deployed all over the place doing lots of sneaky beaky stuff rare that we ever hear anything of their activities.
What ever they are up to they are not really capable of taking and holding ground against large heavily armed forces. 1000 heavily mercenaries, for example, would need to be matched with NATO airpower or conventional forces on the ground both are unlikely, but the chances of the latter happening are vanishingly small I think.
Ground holding support is what the Government Libya needs and it is unlikely that they’ll it so if Russia is looking to extend its direct influence into north Africa they’ll probably get away with it. NATO’s southern flank is likely to be facing a significant Russia threat at some point in the next ten years if the current trend continues unchecked…
SAS with stingers then?
Sorry, I obviously mean Independent Contractors.
The MiG-29 will be operating above Stinger range. They’re not an A2G platform. The deployment is purely an attempt to protect the LNA forces from Turkish drones which have been devastating the GNA forces. The SU-24 could use precision missiles, but if they attack GNA forces they could find themselves in range of Turkish supplied I-HAWK systems. Given the small numbers they’re probably just a threat or for isolated strikes.
The smart move for the Turks would be to quickly deploy some fighters and kill the Russian planes. Given that they’re unmarked the Russian’s could hardly complain…that’s the problem with deniability…
Yeah, smart! Shoot down the aircraft of the large military power just 100 km away across the Black sea.
Mind you. The Russians would be doing us another favour getting rid of islamo-nazi Erdogan.
The Black Sea is about 2000km from
Libya!
Erdogan would be doing us NATO a favour, by throwing out Christian Fascist Putin from Libya!
My point was, and is, Russia is only about 150miles away from Turkey over the Black Sea. The Turks got away with shooting down one Russian Plane not so long ago, I’m pretty sure Putin would have something to say if they deliberately took out a Russian Expeditionary force.
Erdogan is a politician driven by his Islamism and his need to become the leader of the Islamic world by re-establishing a new Ottoman Empire. Putin is a nasty piece of work, but he’s not a “Christian Fascist” driven to become the ideological leader of Chrisendom.
Of cause Erdogan is not perfect, but Turkey is still essentially a democratic country, the opposition won the local elections there last year.
Are you saying he is as bad as Prince Mohammed, a who rules a country that has very little democracy?
He doesn’t look too bad looking either, No beard at least!
Nope never mentioned that lot. That opens another big can of fish.
So yes, the Saudis and UAE are involved with Russia? What strange bed follows!
So your mate Putin is on the side of the headchoppers?
Agreed. A massive drone attack, the Turks are well up for this . But we should provide help.
I actually think that the whole fiasco that Libya has become is down to lack of EU policy. And it is EU rather than NATO policy, since beyond the increasing Russian involvement, there are and have been huge migrationary forces which have de-stablised the EU over the last 9 years. This is hardly a NATO issue, it is an EU/European issue. I always believed and still do that EU/European countries should have created a safe haven along the Libyan coast. This could have been used to prevent the massive influx of African refugees to Europe, to keep a legitimate government in Tripoli and to fill the power void the Russians and Turks are now exploiting. This needs a highly coordinated and committed military response from EU countries – troops on the ground, no-fly zones and coastal patrol within designated zones and with Libyan government approval. The costs of this are probably dwarfed by the money the EU countries have spent on refugee management during this period and the resulting de-stablisation this has caused.
A highly coordinated and committed military response from the EU is contradiction in terms.
That might have worked, now it’s probably just gonna become another hellish Syria. The EU are just as racist and short sighted as everyone else.
Julian that’s a bit of a stretch to put the blame on the EU for Libya come on, it was NATO that helped turn a quite prosperous North African country with free healthcare and free education into the biggest hell hole on the planet
The blame lies well and truly with Obama and Killory Clinton, their thirst for regime change using NATO as their tool, it was a NATO no fly zone, NATO military action and a NATO blockade, and you say “This is hardly a NATO issue” that’s like looking at Europe in 1942 and saying this is hardly a German issue ?
The EU went into crisis management mode to try deal with the biggest refugee crisis since WW2
What you have said about a safe haven along the Libyan coast I actually said on here a few years back, but it wouldn’t be the EU’s job, why on earth would they be in charge of boots on the ground to mop up someone else’s mess, it was US led, so the US should of led NATO in a proper plan for Libya, taking responsibility that a proper superpower should
Even Obama admitted that the biggest mistake he made while President was not having a plan for Libya after Gaddafi
I agree with some of your comment but Gaddafi bought it on himself with arming the IRA and the downing of Pan am flight 103.
Did the Libyan population bring a decade of terror, death and forced migration to countries where they’re described as cockroaches on themselves though? That’s the question
Gaddafi was old and frail should of just left him to it
Gaddafi was a murdering dictator, but Libya didn’t have anything to do with that dreadful crime (Pan Am).
https://observer.com/2018/12/bomb-pan-am-103-lockerbie-iran-remains-a-30-year-mystery/
Libya is the fault of Sarkozy and Cameron who instigated the whole affair. Should President Obama and Secretary Clinton have backed them? No, but they didn’t start it. The only blameless party was Italy.
As for the US paying to secure and stabilize the southern borders of Europe? Not only no but hell no. Europe doesn’t pay to secure America’s border with Mexico or Mexico’s border with Guatemala.
A “proper” superpower takes care of it’s security and citizens first and everyone else is a distant second.
I disagree, Cameron and Sarkozy in public but leaked diplomatic cables tell a bit more of the story, the US were furious with Gaddafi for potential “resource Nationalism” the same term used for the reason for the coup in Iran in the 50’s, these cables were getting more furious from 2006 onwards, add to that the US would never in a million years allow regime change in the most oil rich county in Africa without them having two hands firmly on the steering wheel, Obama had to play a game at home, acting like he was hesitant because of the legacy wars, but behind closed doors him and Clinton were licking their lips taking charge
Don’t get me wrong Britain and France are as much to blame, and when I say US led that means that because US leads NATO financially, militarily and diplomatically they would automatically take the lead in the aftermath of what happened, but everyone plays their part and pays in that not just the US.
Dont blockade a country, bomb the shit out of them then complain that you have to spend a few nuggets stopping the refugee crisis you’ve just caused, take responsibility and see the job through or don’t get involved at all
“Europe doesn’t pay to secure America’s border with Mexico or Mexico’s border with Guatemala.”
Europe doesn’t bomb the hell out of Mexico
My country does not HAVE to spend any “nuggets” on a country so far away when there are far more pressing concerns. Like say the Kennedy Center or a bridge to Nothing, Arizona. I don’t complain about spending blood and treasure in Libya, I reject that it is a necessary expenditure for the US.
Yes Europe doesn’t bomb Mexico, however you have not made a case for America solving Europe’s immigration crisis for it. While I might add being criticized by the EU for attempting to solve it’s own.
Obama is as guilty as the rest of the idiots wo plotted to oust Gadaffi when he was finally trying engage with the west.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/libya/2019-02-18/obamas-libya-debacle
But we knew better. And the Libyan people have been paying the price with 10 years of conflict.
Douglaski could you be trying split western alliances? lol pull the other one with your BS.
Ha ha you are a wag, assuming I’m a Russian troll.
I’m not actually a huge fan of the Russian (hence me calling them Russkies) but at least they have a coherent strategy – meanwhile the succession of idiots voted into the White House have screwed things up across the whole middle east with the support of the UK and most of Europe as we need to keep on the good side of the Yanks.
Fair enough Douglas I retract my comment.
The Libyans were on their way to benghazi to massacre thousands… thats what got us involved.
Actually Sole it was a UN mandated no-fly zone, per Security Council Resolution 1973, that kicked this off with the stated goal “to take all necessary measures… to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamhariya, including Benghazi, while excluding an occupation force.”
Doubtless there will be differing perspectives on who, if anyone, was behind the curtain pulling strings, but Ghaddafi was well on the way to committing genocide against the Arab Spring revolutionaries who started the conflict. As always seem to be the case, any prospect of peace fell by the wayside in the power vacuum that followed.
The whole ‘it was NATO’s fault’ line is possibly the dumbest take ever…
Do these people forget the Libyan’s rising up against a Dictator and said Dictator shelling civilian areas? He’d laid siege to an entire city (Misrata), and was preparing an assault on the 2nd city (Benghazi).
Do the idiots who spout this nonsense think we’ve somehow forgotten all the preceding events??
That’s kind of what happens in a civil war, towns and cities get besieged and people die
Unless we are willing to totally commit to backing a side and putting troops on the ground for the aftermath the only thing we did was make it worse
The civil war at the start was absolutely nothing compared to what’s happened in the years since, most people with half a brain can see that
America wants to be the big boy in the world but doesn’t have the wits or the guts for it. (I’m talking politicians not the actual military)
When the going gets tough, the Yanks retreat (with a face saving treaty to hide the tail between their legs). Vietnam. Iraq. Afghanistan. Syria.
I know it was a U.N. resolution but I don’t think the resolution had what’s going on now in mind when it passed did it
It was a NATO campaign at the request of NATO, the main aim was getting rid of Gaddafi
@Sole. The UN Resolution would not have wanted to see the current situation as a result, but it explicitly excluded the occupation force you are suggesting should have been put in place.
You clearly have your perspective on this and I doubt anything I say will change it. But to say “NATO that helped turn a quite prosperous North African country with free healthcare and free education into the biggest hell hole on the planet” and “Gaddafi was old and frail should of just left him to it” when the country was in the midst of a civil war with genocide on the cards is disingenuous. Its like saying the West was right to stay out of Rwanda and shouldn’t have gone into the Balkans.
That’s my point though, there should not have been a U.N. resolution in the first place, it was hastily put together and Russia and China abstained, which they both later regretted
This is healthy debate that I enjoy, I believe perspectives can change when presented with sufficient evidence, if you could point me in the direction of proof that Gadaffi would of committed “genocide” then I’ll take that on board and perhaps alter my viewpoint, but there is not one bit of legitimate evidence of any genocide in Libya, I have read and researched it and every single use of the term genocide and mass killing etc comes from supposed eye witness accounts from rebels, reported as fact by the BBC etc, there was no genocides in all the towns and cities that Gadaffi went through, he said there would be no mercy to Benghazi, Benghazi was the biggest rebel stronghold it was aimed at the rebels to try make them leave, that threat is one of the reasons today that people still say he was going to slaughter them all it’s preposterous when you look at all the evidence closely
Also I hope you’re not going to do what others have done in the past and stupidly called a uniformed military attacking enemies in urban areas genocide, because that’s exactly what we in the west do if we have to and have done many times before
Rwanda and the balkans are obviously different we could talk about that all day, big difference is there is stone cold proof of massacres and genocide in those cases, same can’t be said for Libya
Its difficult to prove Gadaffi would have committed genocide when actions taken stopped him from doing so. Perhaps he shouldn’t have threatened to take actions that suggested massive non-combatant casualties. There wouldn’t be evidence of genocide in Rwanda or the Balkans if action had been taken early enough to prevent it. That’s the problem, we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Do we wait until it becomes a fact before taking action.
Russia is only a stablising force as a by product of their desire to increase influence with authoritarian regimes and in some cases their goal to establish military bases. To hold them up as a positive example based on their actions in Syria is appalling.
But there is no evidence to suggest he would have, this is propaganda to even suggest he would have, there is not a tiny bit of evidence to suggest otherwise
There is a documented case for every single genocide that’s ever happened, Rwanda a million dead with a big pile of documented evidence, footage, eye witness accounts
Propaganda did not stop when Geobbells died, think about it for a second, if you were a militant in Libya let’s say, and you wanted to overthrow the government, what is one of you’re main strategies? It’s to get the western powers on board obviously, it’s been proved by Wikileaks it’s been proved time and time again
The Middle East nations are better than us at propaganda, they can make a grown man put a vest on and blow himself up in the name of jihad, so why don’t we know already that them same liars are feeding the western media a load of bullshit for their own aims
It’s hard growing up with this we are the goodies and they’re the baddies attitude but it’s simply not right in modern geopolitics, just because the BBC says what we are doing is right does not mean that it’s right, more people in the world think what we are doing is wrong, that’s a fact
“… there is not a tiny bit of evidence to suggest otherwise” apart from “he said there would be no mercy to Benghazi” – your language not mine. It seems you advocate for waiting for him to commit the act because there is no other way of knowing for certain whether he would have or not, at which point it would have been too late had that been his intent.
I think we, or at least I, am done on this topic. Thank you for the discussion.
No worries ?
“There wouldn’t be evidence of genocide in Rwanda or the Balkans if action had been taken early enough to prevent it”
Also where the hell are you getting that from , we never prevented the genocides in Rwanda or the Balkans, they happened and we never prevented it
Exactly. We didn’t prevent genocide and therefore there is evidence. Had we prevented genocide then ipso facto there would be no evidence because nothing would have happened.
You would have criticised the intervention even if we had done so!
It is very difficult to make out wether You come from a extreme right position, or a extreme Communist left position!
And lets admit it, NATO is a tool of the Americans. So of was at the request of NATO it was at the request of the Yanks. Obama was part of the flawed decision making right up to his neck.
The problem is there isn’t a legitimate government. And the fact that a government has been selected by the West and their Gulf Sate allies as legitimate, doesn’t actually make it legitimate.
Give the problem that our Gulf Ste allies invariably favor lunatic Islamic Militants as their proxies – i don’t hold out much hope for any future involvement by the West.
You should respond as always: change your Pampers ?
Surprised anyone wants to use Wagner anymore. They’ve gotten their asses kicked numerous times the past few years.
Are we about to see “Syria” unfolding all over again? Trump useless, the EU unable to organise and the bit part UK without an ally to be a host. Then what, NE Europe? Really would like to read what the guys here, who know more about this than me, think?
Well done Russia, someone has to mop up the mess in Libya and put an end to the conflict, don’t see NATO or the US putting in any effort to sort it so fair play to them
Stepping up to the plate like they did successfully in Syria
For anyone not in the know we’re backing the shithouses that most of the Libyans don’t want, we’re backing the guys who have 8000 jihadis that Turkey shipped in from Syria in their ranks
While Russia is backing the guys that have spilt most blood clearing ISIS and other jihadi groups out the country, just like they did in Syria
We really do need to up our game on the geopolitics front
You Do realise that the Libyan government in Tripoli is the U
You Do realise that the Libyan government in Tripoli is recognised as the legitimate government of Libya by the United Nations? If Russia really wanted to help, it should
STOP undermining that government, by supporting rebel warlords, and take its responsibilities as a permanent member of the UNSC seriously, and help to stabilise Libya.
And what does being recognised by the U.N. mean in this day and age, absolutely nothing, the UN, EU along with most western governments are corrupt with only self interest in mind
The UN passed a resolution for us to give the Chagos islands back to Mauritius, can’t see us doing that anytime soon can you, UN resolutions are not worth the paper they’re written on
Ok sole you just showed your true colours again as I said before go live in Russia and enjoy the low living standards and benefits of a dictatorship.
??
I knew you’d bite
Reds under the bed Dave!
Not really sole its not like the Russian military have a moral compass , using cluster bombs in Syria carpet bombing Aleppo and Idlb to dust and
targeting and destroying hospitals, not to mention letting Assad air force use of Sarin gas on it’s own people which the Russian’s most likely supplied.
Who wants a moral compass when you’re fighting head chopping, sharia law loving jihadis
It’s strange Dave that in all the times we have discussed the middle east the only people in your crosshairs are the Russians, you have never, not once talked about the guys they’re fighting, you know the guys that are blowing our children in concerts to pieces and making people slice up our own soldiers on our streets
Your anti Russian sentiment is blind to the real enemies in the Middle East
The Syrian rebels are proven jihadis, even the western media can’t hide that fact, the white helmets were filmed one day helping people for a video and then the next they’re chopping someone’s head off
Assad was staying in the Queens spare bedroom not long Dave, that was when he was an “ally” as soon as he stopped playing ball then he was part of a “regime” I would take Assad every single day of the week instead of the head chopping fanatics
And the exact same with Libya, gadaffi imprisoned all the jihadis, now they’re running wild
It’s been proven again and again that these dictators, as terrible as they are, are better left in place
Have you ever spoke to anyone not in the western media bubble Dave, when they here us talking about moral compasses they laugh their socks off, do you know which countries have dropped most bombs and killed most civilians in the last 30 years Dave? I’ll give you a clue, it’s not Russia
You talk about Aleppo, a lot of people do, bombed it to dust, what the hell do you think think happened in Mosul in Iraq around the same time, it was bombed to dust with more civilian deaths, but of course that was us doing it so it’s not in the news, pathetic, when we bomb a city it’s a battle, when the Russians do it it’s a massacre, you’re a fool to propaganda Dave, you always have and you always will be
So the Russians are heroes for propping up the Assad family? Now I’ve heard it all.
Problem is the Wagner guys are absolute wankers. Their are two classes of Wagner’s, the guys who have recently left the Russian military and then recruited straight off to Wagner, and those Spetnatz lads who are still actually serving, and are acting on behalf of Putin and his politics. While I’m not ever going to moan about the use of PMCs, obviously, Wagner group operate with no moral compass whatsover and while they are mostly effective, most of their methods used to achieve their aim would make the average person shudder and puke. Even as a PMC you can and should operate as professional and follow the rules and code of conduct of war as close as possible.
Totally agree as usual Airborne, have you heard the fine details of Wagners attempt to take the Syrian northern oil fields, more than 200 dead Russians in a couple of hours of well coordinated US air strikes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaeDMOWkCwU worth a watch.
you are totally biased and objective. I wonder why I waste time criticising you.
A massacre was on the way and we stopped it. Hard to see how we could just watch it happen.
Thereafter the West mismanaged it and Obama was half hearted in not folowing up with necessary resources.
Well this is turning into a melting pot.
Turkey, Egypt, UAE, Saudi now Russia, who is fighting in which side?!
The military coup/Gaddafi Loyalist supporters are Egypt, UAE and Russia. The democratic government supporters are Syria, Turkey and Italy. Britain, France and the US have helped both sides in military operations against ISIS.
Combinations like that are how major wars start!
Russia (Putin) teams up with another failed state. Another failed Moslem state. Good.
We need to give the Russkies their due. Its not their Job to do what the Yanks or the West tell them. And given the resources they have – they’ve done a great job of catching us on the hoof. And lets admit it, Assad is the best of a bad bunch in Syria – much better than any of the insane hardline Islamist idiots the Gulf States want to install. And in Libya, Haftar is the same.
The Russkies have started to help stabilise a Middle East that we in the west screwed up royally with our half cocked interventions. We’ve turned Syria and Iraq into the nursery of ISIS, allowing Iran to get its claws into Iraq and turn Syria into an Ally. And we were in the process of giving North Africa over the Muslim Brotherhood. Egypt atleast managed to step back from chaos and hopefully the Russkies can settle the situation in Libya (Obama’s stupid idea enthusiastically carried out by David Cameron and Sarkozy both trying to be his “best boy”.)
If only we had politicians with half a brain, backing sensible candidates and not destroying regimes that while not democracies weren’t a danger to us, and the the Russians wouldn’t have had the opportunity to make us in the west look so powerless and stupid.
Douglas I have to agree with you. Sad to say, but the entire Middle East/North Africa problem is of our own making. The Russians merely stepped in, in an opportunistic manner and took over the mess we left behind. Or they got the Iranians to do it for them. I don’t like it but I can’t really blame them for it. If we don’t like Russian planes in Libya, then take them out. Russians can’t complain if the aircraft don’t have Russian markings. But we won’t. Having caused the mess in the first place, we failed to follow up with any form of strategy and now we stand by and watch it become another Syria.
Russians were flying in both Korea & Viet Nam so it’s hardly new.
I think Douglaski you have drunk to much vodka, Russia cuts corners by using cluster bombs and carpet bombing Aleppo and Idlb to dust ,not forgetting targeting and destroying every hospital in the area and letting Assad air force use sarin gas on it’s own people, its not like the Russian military has a moral compass. Pull the other one Ivan Douglski lol .
That’s a great post Douglas
Don’t listen to Dave he’s a western media melt, anyone who doesn’t share his opinion is Russian
Dave thinks Kelly’s heroes is documentary, he dressed up as a cowboy as a kid fighting the Indians in his back garden, he also keeps his fallout shelter well stocked with tins of baked beans for when the Russians attack
I have to agree with Douglas too. It’s true. Whatever Putin’s motivations the west has utterly mucked up the Middle East and North Africa, and continues to do so. If the Russians want to deploy forces that is their right.
Showing your true colours at last Daniele, as a anti western Troll?
You joking Meirion? An anti western troll who’s here daily wanting the best for the UK military? Who just happens to think many of our actions regards foreign policy have been mistakes? That’s called having an opinion.
It might not be yours. Or Dave’s. That doesn’t make me anti western.
I do however read history and try to see both sides, including the Russian.
I have photos of the Queen on my bookcase, Churchill, Battle of Britain Pilots, I want the best for my country, I support NATO, I support Brexit. I support our armee forces. And I’m “anti western”
With respect, change the record FFS.
Not my opinion you are Russian troll Daniele I have never said that. From all that you have contribute to UKDJ with your military knowledge that would be a mistake, but I will argue my point are view when it come’s to Putin and I’m happy to be corrected when I have jumped the gun.
That’s fine Dave. My comment was primarily aimed at M.
Understood and respect your view. No doubt Putin is a SOB, never said otherwise. Russia needs watching and I want the west/NATO armed likewise.
All I like to do occasionally is point out some of the more hypocritical western stances vs those of Russia.
Otherwise, respect.
I think Meirion X is new to the chat so he does not know your input, and I’ve accused wrongly people before on being a Russian troll and as I said I’m happy to be corrected . I do respect your views and maybe I should be a bit more flexible when it comes down to it with my views.
Daniele you said in a previous post, that Russia can deploy force wherever they like, just like in Crimea!
That was got me wound up about you, as you seemed to suddenly changing sides?
No, I said Russia have a right, like we do, to deploy their armed forces, and i used the words “deploy forces” as they see fit! Not “deploy force” as in engage in conflict. Although again, even if they did that, again, it’s their right. We, as in the west, do it all the time.
I also never mentioned Crimea did I, that is a totally different arena again long argued over on this forum.
If those comments get you wound up about me….boy, I cannot help you, sorry.
In addition, see John Clark’s excellent comment below.
‘An anti western troll’ – I’m having a good chuckle at that ! Reminds me of the line from Alfie Bass in ‘The Fearless Vampire Killers’. Alfie was Jewish and when they showed him a crucifix he said ‘Boy, have you got the wrong vampire’.
Hahaha! Brilliant!
So Russia and Pakistan are free of blame when it comes down to Afghanistan?
Also Syria with Lebanon?
No fan of Putin but he had the power – and offered – to get Assad to step aside but was rebuffed because the west didn’t want Russia to have any more influence there. 8 years later and they have that influence at a cost of thousands upon thousands of innocent lives anyway.
This is why we need the carriers.
Midget Putin probably had the guy in charge of this killed.
This situation raises some pretty strong feelings.
We can attribute blame to the US, NATO or Russia, the reality is they all share blame.
Our collective interventions in Iraqi, Afghanistan and Libya were highly questionable, they turned into a destabilising horror show.
Situations of such mammoth complexity were created as factions within factions fought for power and settled old scores in the power vacuum created by our missguided intentions.
The Russians ‘might’ actually accomplish what we failed to do by using absolutely ruthless violence against anyone they deem necessary, as they have in Syria
They do need to be counted and their influence stopped.
Moving forward, we had better not get involved in interventions without a clear aim and exit strategy … And of course, not leave the country in question as a bombed out gutted shell tipped into anarchy, as our aircraft carrier battle group disappears over the horizon…..
Well said! And saying it doesn’t mean you’re a Russian troll, or you don’t love your own country, or care for and have pride in our armed forces.
The last time I was accused of being a Russian troll, I was so shocked, I dropped my vodka on my Stalin tone Computer, loosing 400 false facebook accounts and spent six months in a Siberian salt mine!
Not all bad news though, I got some excellent investment advice from fellow Oligarch inmates!
Hoping to upgrade to Lada with a sunroof next year!
Joking aside, surely no one can possibly argue our interventions in Iraqi, Afghanistan and Libya were justified and worked!
They all failed, one after the other.
Iraqi has finally starting to emerge from a living nightmare, despite us, not because of us and we have let Iranian infiltration and influence in through the back door, that’s just an added bonus!
Afghanistan is reverting to “type”, a multi sided shit show of mutual hatred, while the West desperately tries to disengage, with ‘Operation let the Taliban into Government’ and run like hell before it blows up in their faces….
What’s been achieved from the loss of young life there, absolutely sod all.
5 years from now, any changes for the better made ( like girls education) will be forgotten and they will be hacking each other to bits again, while their civilian population suffer in grinding poverty.
Libya, well, best we can manage there is regional containment and hammer any terrorist training facilities and bases as they pop up.
Despite American led military might, it totally failed on all three occasions, unless we call hell on earth a result, if so, it’s a big thumbs up!
Our new Carrier battle group can be used to great effect, hopefully used as the proverbial big stick of foreign policy, it might be able to put fires out before they start, in the same way as Ark Royal managed in the 70’s.
Cynical, absolutely, I want to see a well equipped, larger and motivated British Armed forces ( led by a confident government) used as a force for good in the world, if we ask our youngsters to risk their lives, it had better be for a bloody good reason!
Bravo John.