The OSINT Bunker podcast regularly delves into the intricacies of modern warfare and global conflicts, this time, the panel took a look at Russian disinformation.

In a recent episode, retired Lieutenant Colonel Stuart Crawford, a 20-year veteran of the Royal Tank Regiment, was invited to share his insights on the role of disinformation in modern conflicts.

Drawing from his extensive experience, Crawford offered a nuanced perspective on the ongoing conflict in Ukraine and the broader global landscape, highlighting the importance of understanding and combating misinformation.

The panel for the OSINT Bunker podcast includes @OSINTtechnical, @geoallison and @AnAustinThing2.

Crawford began by defining misinformation and disinformation, explaining that misinformation is information that’s wrong due to various reasons, while disinformation is the deliberate manipulation of information to present a false picture.

He noted that disinformation is something that the Russians are very good at and have been for a long time. He said, “The difference between Russian disinformation and Western disinformation is that the Russians tend to do it on an epic scale”.

Crawford also discussed the dangers of cognitive dissonance in the face of misinformation, stating, “the biggest one of the biggest enemies of finding the truth is cognitive dissonance, by which I mean, don’t don’t give me that information, because it doesn’t agree with what I think already. And, you know, you see that all the time. And that’s dangerous, because people are closing their minds not opening their minds”.

He emphasised the importance of using multiple sources of information and applying judgment in a mature and reasoned way. He said, “I think we just have to be I think we have to be alive to what’s going on. We have to use multi source, broad spectrum sources of information. And then I think we have to apply our judgement in a mature and sort of reasoned way. And I think that’s the way to combat it”.

Adding to the discussion, co-host George Allison highlighted a specific example of misinformation involving the British aircraft carrier HMS Prince of Wales. He pointed out how Russian sources misrepresented the situation when the ship was having parts removed (and eventually replaced) for sister-ship HMS Queen Elizabeth whilst in port for repairs.

This news was spun into a narrative that the ship was being scrapped, demonstrating the power and reach of misinformation.

Allison said, “There were claims on various Russian language, Russian English language, channels on Twitter, Facebook, etc that HMS Prince of Wales was being scrapped and out that news grew arms and legs. It just it just kept going. I’m still, you know, I get tags and tweets, for example, people tagging me in with Russian accounts gloating about the ‘news’ that the ship has been scrapped despite being at sea.”

If you want to hear more from Crawford, we recommend heading to his own podcast here.

What is the OSINT Bunker?

The OSINT Bunker is a defence and security-based podcast aimed at expanding people’s knowledge of the geopolitical landscape using open-source intelligence. It fills a niche that most people (most people reading this anyway) have for up-to-date, accurate and balanced information on ongoing conflicts.

What is OSINT? For those who don’t know, OSINT stands for open-source intelligence, which refers to any information gathered from public sources about an organisation, event, individual etc. In practice, that tends to mean information found on the internet, but technically any public information falls into the category of OSINT, whether it’s books or reports in a public library, articles in a newspaper or statements in a press release.

Episodes typically cover the UK and international defence matters.

Tom Dunlop
Tom Dunlop
Tom has spent the last 13 years working in the defence industry, specifically military and commercial shipbuilding. His work has taken him around Europe and the Far East, he is currently based in Scotland.

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120 COMMENTS

  1. Aye I don’t really think we in the West are in any position to point the finger when it comes to mis dis or mal information especially given the last 3 years .Alas certain topics we can’t talk about.

    All governments lie including our own this is simply fact as anyone who wants to look can see with the government documents that are released after decades of being withheld. Yes the Russian state is a cesspit of propaganda just like our own. Censorship protecting you from reality.

    Its very sad the majority put their wholehearted faith into believing without question everything the government of the day tell us about absolutely anything.The last thing HM gov want is a population of well educated critical thinkers ,that’s too difficult to manipulate and control.

    As such I wholeheartedly agree with the author We have to use multi source, broad spectrum sources of information. And then I think we have to apply our judgement in a mature and sort of reasoned way.

    The last truly patriotic PM this nation had once stated these prophetic words that apply to today more than ever.

    “I believe we were going to a way of life where people were constantly looking to the STATE to solve their problems and to do things for them. When the state does everything for you it will soon take everything from you.You will then have no basis for personal freedom , political or economic freedom”

    -Maggie T

    Aye the state everyone’s friend always looking out for you always telling the truth especially when it comes to war 😉

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

      • El Klonkers , never been away matey I’ve plenty posts it’s just they go up 4 weeks after I send them unless they don’t 😂 , I’m on THE LIST as a Russian troll or something 🤪 for some reason ? Anyhoos you’ll prob never even see this 🙈

        Always remember young man the art of good posting is not being a member of the London boys group think club 😉

        🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

        • Morning Mate, my bad. I haven’t been on the site much of late. Enjoy your posts man, god sense of humour which lightens the load of those tragically pathetic russkie troll posts. 😉

          • you got that right Amigo GOD sense of humour I’m better than good cos I don’t follow the shitehoose collective group think London boys we are the world crew 👊🏼 BRiTISH to the core and HM forces #1 supporter 🇬🇧

            🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

  2. “Saddam can hit us with WMD in 45 minutes”. Domestic or Russian disinformation differs in desired outcome but is aimed squarely at us. Russia aims to demoralise and confuse us out of fighting, domestic disinformation is to subvert democracy and take us into illegal wars.

      • Perhaps part of the problem w/ Mad Vlad’s (and the Orcs’) performance in UKR was that they believed their own disinformation! 🤣😁

        • Absolute spot on, he also beloved his head sheds when they told him they were good to go for the invasion! 3 days vladdy, 3 days, back to Moscow in time for vodka and 2 litres of 2 stroke…..now how did that go then 😂👍

        • Infact a lot of it is aimed at his own people as well as other haters of the west ( a lot of the African military dictatorships etc). Authoritarians need to ensure their own people believe a narrative of threat and and danger from outside and within..or why would they put up with it all.

          • Well apparently the latest is that they could have beaten Ukraine in a week or so, ‘everyone knows that’ so it’s a genius tactic that they are dragging it out so as to create ongoing disaffection with democracy in the West and the people will vote out their Govts and the LGBT crowd who apparently run things against the people’s will outside of pure Mother Russia. Yup seriously that is new line being taken to explain the incapability to beat Ukraine on their tv screens. Not sure even Boris could lied to that extent.

            Mind you they are reporting the truth about Trump forcing Republicans to stop agreements to solve the southern migrant crisis and military help to Ukraine so that Trump can ‘solve’ it down the line or make his Presidency more likely despite most Republicans don’t agree with it. Seems Russian ‘experts’ are more aware of the manipulation than Republican American voters, but then being experts in manipulation why wouldn’t they be more aware of such trickery.

      • hes right . It was an orchestrated litany of lies for an illegal invasion- UN refused to go along with the pre-emptive war- no different from Putin

        • Not on about his illegal war part, if you read mine and other posters you will see we agree, I’m on about the rest of the anti NATO guff he spouts, along with much more pro Russian anti Ukraine vomit.

      • Unless its direct self defence, any invasion is illegal under ‘international rules’ unless approved by UN security Council . Which it wasnt – remember.
        Eg Falklands – self defence. Iraq – illegal invasion.

        • In reality international law is a bit of a joke and only works if you’re signed up to it…nations will alway do what they believe is in their best interest and that includes making war. In our world there has only really ever been one final arbiter and that’s the power of your army and the wealth of your nation…everything else is in reality just structures of diplomacy built up to reduce the need for that final arbiter….but might and wealth still make right.

          • It always has and alway does Grizzler, especially in geopolitics, the best you can get from a nation state is enlightened self interest..it’s better not to go to war generally..but when a nation decides the other way it will go to war and bugger the consequences…and just to be even more negative the winner generally gets to always writes the ending.

            In reality the UN very much survived as a way to prevent a full blown conflict between the nuclear powers…but international law is only really as effective as the signatories want it to be…

            the Antarctic treaty conventions are a classic case..there are only 56 nations that have signed it out of 195 nations…of those only 42 have signed and ratified the environmental protection elements…49 have signed but but have not agreed to respect the stated claims of the nations that originally discovered and explored the Antarctic ( they all reserve the right to steel someone else’s claim). Essentially that big bit of international law is a holding place card until one of the major powers decides its in its interests to start exploiting the Antarctic and then it will be blood on the snow.

          • Belonging to the UN itself the only core requirement
            Other international treaties do require ratification, thats true
            International criminal court, Law of the Sea, Geneva conventions on the Conduct of War and so on

          • Although there are 11 sovereign states that are not in the UN so even that is not universal. The best example being Taiwan, then there are another around another 30 or so disputed territories that could or should be nations, the CIA lists 237 counties vs the 193 recognised member states…many of the unrecognised ones are nations that have been subjugated buy more powerful member states or are attempting to cede. Even to become a members state of the UN is a play of power influence and wealth that some smaller nations in a shadow of a larger more powerful nation cannot achieve….at least half the UN member states don’t recognise Kosovo as separate from Serbia…..the republic of China ( Taiwan) once held one of the 5 permanent security council seats…now it’s not even recognised…basically the Chinese communist party got nuclear weapons and the ROC did not….everything is based on Power and wealth when talking about nations.

          • The International Court of Justice has powers to prosecute individual people, but it has no power or authority to bring prosecutions against a sovereign nation.

          • Indeed the Philippines antics the last decade show it. ‘The US has lost’ circa 2014, belt and road and prospective deals with China, thrown out US bases, China harasses their fishing boats and claims outlying islands and the economic zones, attempt to repair US links, belt and road deals never materialise. Begging bowl to US and unfettered access to new bases to protect them from threat of China. Morality never came into it just a sense on wanting to cosy up with those they felt they need to.

        • Use of the word “illegal” is unhelpful. The decision to invade Iraq was a breach of the UN Charter, which is a serious matter, but UN had no means to bring USA or UK to any form of justice.

    • “Russia aims to demoralise and confuse us out of fighting, domestic disinformation is to subvert democracy and take us into illegal wars.”

      Which means to most people with a modicum of common sense,

      Giving us a right giggle at the people spouting the drivel being pushed out.

    • The forty-five minute claim was supposed to refer to battlefield WMDs, but mutated by the press it became an ability to hit our bases in Cyprus. Subsequently, the press complained that this misunderstanding was never corrected, but that completely missed the point.

      Arguments over where the Cyprus misinformation came from was itself a misdirection. The original statement that battlefield WMDs could be fired in forty-five mins was also wrong, because there were no WMDs in the first place and the governments of the UK and the US were sick of waiting for the UN to find them.

      It reminded me at the time of an episode we had been taught about in school, the War of Jenkins Ear. In order to justify a war with Spain, in 1738 the Commons was regaled with a story of how, several years earlier, Spanish sailors boarded a British merchant ship near Cuba and sliced off the captain’s ear. Captain Jenkins, appeared before Parliament with the alleged ear pickled in a jar, precipitating a ten year war. Arguments were had over whether the object in the jar was really Jenkins ear or even an ear at all, distracting from two questions: did the Spanish actually cut it off, and was the alleged incident a reason to go to war? If not what was the real reason?

      That last point was what I was supposed to be learning in school, but it’s the bit I don’t remember. The lie is much simpler and sticks much better.

    • The WMD reason irritated many and convinced few, ultimately though, a vicious dictator with form on invading neighbours was removed. Appalling lack of planning and lack of understanding led to the quagmire that followed. In terms of Afghanistan, there was a broad coalition of at least 8 western countries and even mellow support from Russia for that, and anyway you can’t not expect the US to kick in the door of the safe haven of its enemies who just murdered thousands of its people. Not sure why you are even comparing this to the epic scale of misinformation that Russia farts out every minute to excuse its massive invasion of a neighbour. As I keep pointing out, the so called illegal invasions were not about enlargement of the territory of the UK or USA, whereas the Russian invasion of Ukraine is about taking land and calling it your own. Big bloody difference.

      • We removed a vicious dictator, when he ceased to be “our guy” in the region which unleashed ISIL. For some reason this was a sudden priority that screwed the Afghan operation which was triggered by the Saudi attack on the US. Gets confusing doesn’t it? They were not “so called illegal invasions”, they bloody well were illegal invasions. Our own side queered the pitch then bleats about Russia pulling the same games. No sympathy from me. What was that weapons inspector called who was driven to suicide again? Remember that? How “irritating”. I just can’t square the circle of why people think our own shit doesn’t stink and taints the credulity of what they tell us now.

        • Your inability to distinguish the differences between sets of circumstances is worrying, as is your determination to spread d/misinformation. For example, “Saudi attack on the US” implies that 9/11 was an act perpetrated by the Saudi state, which it most certainly was not.

          • Thats is so . It wasnt an attack by the Afghan state either but they got invaded
            Whats your take on the Saudi state attack along with Emeratis on their neighbour Yemen , aided by US and UK

        • don’t blow a fuse on me buck rogers and stop quoting my words back to me like some bore, I was against the Iraq war at the time and know all the angles, so no lectures as I’ve just eaten. If you want to talk about Iraq war and the failings of the Blair government then fine, but don’t do it in the same breath as Russias full scale land grab of Ukraine. It’s not the same so don’t try to muddle them as all in the same camp.

          • Invasion is invasion, you cant separate them like you do for convenience.
            Both are for misguided reasons, and both on a country that wasnt a threat to them.
            The real reasons for the Iraqi illegal invasion was oil at the heart of it. At the time the west was beholden to the Saudis and their oil, so it was to protect that and gain economic control over Iraqs oil was the core of the plan- couldnt say that- so various false angles were used – as any politicians find that the underlings will find plausible reasons for any fantasy they desire

          • I believe you can separate types of invasion. There is at least an honesty to a good old fashioned land grab. The last set of wars the UK have engaged in have been political, costly and ultimately pointless. If we ever had a government that straight up had the balls to say “we are going back in the business of gaining land and resources for the UK”, they would have me and many others cheering in the streets. We could offer to help Ukraine, but Crimea? You are never getting that back. That will be our payment. Although personally I think we should take Cape province off those idiots in South Africa and kick out the population so we can resettle it.

          • Agreed Crimea will never be returned, Those wars also cost us in terms of military effectiveness, Blair’s government made cuts to help pay for those invasions, plus the snatch Land Rover scandal and the vacuum of power and bloody chaos left behind, I struggle to vote for either party as both are so poor and incompetent and lie all the time.

          • For the first time, I may not bother to vote next year. I’ve spoiled my paper the last 2 times. Nobody in politics today is worthy to run a Tesco Express and I admit I am thoroughly demoralised by this last decade. The only thing that would get me back in a conflict for this country would be 40+ acres of arable land with a water source and suitable house, signed over to my son and family in perpetuity.

          • Luke , I couldn’t agree more with. I will not settle for a mediocre set of candidates. ThEy can all bloody well work harder for my vote!

          • Absolutely agree the political system in this country and the West in general is broken, basically a corrupted steaming pile O shite. I will never vote again.

            Its now self evident if voting made any difference they wouldn’t let you do it.

            As a man much smarter than the members of “One Voice” in here once said-

            “There are none so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”

            🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

          • Then you’re a throbber and if spoiling your vote, or not voting then you are not entitled to winge and cry about who ends up in number 10! You have to admit you allowed that specific party in and therefore you go along with their agenda and policies! No need to cry about, for example the removal of illegal immigrants to Rwanda, or the exploitation and licences for new gas and oil fields, if you didn’t vote in the last election!

          • Wtf are you on about? Spoiled ballots are still counted but there really is no point, I live in the bluest of Tory constituencies and nothing will ever dislodge the pricks. If I had my way I’d be deporting people in the millions, not allowing 600k in a year because they are related to the unelected PM. I’d also be fracking the bejesus out of the land to extract every last drop, and none of the licenses would be on the international market. It would be for domestic sale only and capped at 2015 prices.

          • Wow Lukey, don’t worry the Tories will be dislodging themselves, but then you will be disappointed when Labour get in, as the policies of the left involve needing immigrants to come over, get leave to remain, and then vote for the left! And do you really think all 600k coming over are related to the PM, a little casual racism there I see!

          • Meh, have to slightly disagree. Invasion is invasion as it’s the same word, yes, but tomorrow is tomorrow also but what you do tomorrow and I do will be different. I’m not separating invasions for convenience, I could say the opposite, you are saying they are all the same for convenience. What about counter-invasions then, so when we retook the falklands or Ukraine gaining back ground, is that invasions is invasions. All habitable land in this world has changed hands and been fought over, so we should be intelligent enough to argue the nature and reasons for an invasion. I agree in your analysis of those wars are often based on disinformation and that WMD was a pretext, but on your point on the Saudis, that’s not true, they were never in danger and didn’t need protection as their military would have swatted Iraq easily if it had to. The reason wasn’t oil, the reason was zealous ideals of right and wrong and power projection. Afghanistan was different and needs another forum to talk that one through, so it’s not convenient to try and understand each invasion, it’s kinda not convenient at all.

          • No just poor sleeping routine, working late getting stuff done cos I’ve taken the rest of the week off. Barnsley isn’t Moscow and Yorkshire isn’t Russia last I looked. Although Sheffield may launch a drone attack soon.

          • Don’t let those peoples republic of South Yorkshire lads push you around. I struggle to sleep in these short nights too, really sucks.

    • Beware of arguing from the particular to the general. The WMD saga was one specific instance of disinformation, whose sole purpose was to support the idea of going to war. Other domestic disinformation serves other quite different purposes.

  3. Obviously Prince of Wales was never going to be scrapped or sold. The next party in power however, will take a very different view.

    • Will it now?

      Let me guess, Mad Vlad looking to buy a low mileage 2nd hand carrier to replace the pile of junk that is playing at being a front line aviation asset with the Rus Northern Flt?

        • I think you will find that they are just fine tuning their bastion policy…..if it never leaves port it’s hard to get to…..after all their main aim is to look impressive and they cannot do that if they have broken down…or been humiliated by a generational or two newer set of of NATO ships and subs.

          • Er…huh…wanna slam-dunk bar bet winner? The accurate statement should be who would drink the Flavor Aid? Per Mr. Google. Who knew?

    • Labour were the ones who had the policy to build 2 large carriers and operate them as such.
      Conservatives after the election initially wanted to only operate 1 and have the other as non operational.
      Same happened to the T23 replacement, the T26 design was progressed from around 2009 but the Defence cuts of the Conservatives meant it was put on the back burner till months before 2015 election , the glacial pace means the first might be in commission 10 years after the 2015 election

      • Sorry don’t you know that the Tory’s have always been a friend to the navy and British shipbuilding in general, that’s why people still howl thatchers name from the Clyde to the Tyne to the Mersey 😀

        • Treasury is still full of Thatcherites and often the Defence Secretary is one of the party cadres from her time who worked for the party immediately after university till a seat comes vacant 10-12 years later ( Hammond)
          At least Wallace was in the military

        • The collapse of the shipbuilding industry wasn’t Thatchers fault. It was a self inflicted wound by the Unions and the refusal to modernise.

          • I’m going to disagree a bit, yes the unions played a role, but actually most of the refusal to modernise was happening from around the early 20c and was driven by the owners of the yards wanting to maximise profit without investment..they had grown up without international competition and grew in hubris…yes you can say in the late sixties and seventies the Unions played an equal part..but the owners were the seminal cause of British shipyards being to generations behind their competitors, the unions of the seventies just exasperated what was already terminal.

          • ‘Refusal to modernise’ is phrase which covers a multitude of sins. Unions are guilty of it when they can see that ‘modernisation’ proposals will lead to job losses, or they do not believe employers’ assurances that it won’t. Employers are guilty of it when they choose asset stripping for short term profit rather than get stuck into the hard work of re-engineering systems and production methods. Employers who command the trust of their employees can modernise. It’s a question of having a culture of respect and the confidence to take the workforce with you. German and Japanese companies operating in the UK seem to have no problem problem running modern plants which make high quality products. Sadly too many British ‘leaders of industry’ are not really officer material….you need to be able to take your troops with you. That’s not going to happen if they can see you are only in it for what you can get out of it.

      • Hmmm…no mention of the Labour Shrill Lord West of Spit dont Swallow who pushed for the carriers at the expense of the rest of the RN. Where were the carriers built? Who as Chancellor /PM at the time? How did Spit dont Swallow end up as a Labour Peer I wonder?

        I was still serving when Delivering Security in a Changing World hit the messdecks. I was the Warrant WE Weapons on HMS Marlborough, one of the T23s that was cut, and I was one of the last 3 people off the gangway as we turned the lights off and gave the keys to the dockyard. (My next stop after that was 3 years in Naples, Italy on a NATO job so I didn’t really care that much at the time.)

        As First Sea Lord, West implemented the defence white paper entitled Delivering Security in a Changing World which proposed cutting three Type 23 frigates, three Type 42 destroyers, four nuclear submarines, six minehunters and reducing the planned purchase of Type 45 destroyers from twelve to eight. In a message to the Royal Navy, West said “We must continue the shift in emphasis away from measuring strength in terms of hull numbers and towards the delivery of military effects… I am confident that these changes will leave the Navy better organised and equipped to face the challenges of the future.”

        That prophetic bit of writing worked out oh so well…

        • When you cut the money, cuts to hardware and troop numbers follow. It can take many years before they do, particularly of long-lasting platforms but it’s inevitable unless budgets rise again.

          The effect of John Major wasting the “peace dividend” in the 1990s was still being felt years later. You can’t lop a third off the budget and expect no platform cuts. We can argue whether West should have pushed for carriers over escorts, but the Navy should have still been able to afford both.

          As for the mealy mouthed Defence Reviews that pretend to justify no need for whatever’s being cut, they are effect, not cause.

        • Bravo GB. BRAVO!
          Some balance and perspective for a change, Labour are no better than the Tories when it comes to Defence.

          • It is also worth remembering that the Tories have been in power for 34 of the last 50 years, and if Argentina hadn’t invaded the Falklands in 1982 then the armed forces would have been decimated by the Thatcher government’s plans which were abruptly reversed.

            1945 to 2023

            28 years Labour
            50 years Tory

            1973 to 2023

            16 years Labour
            34 years Tory

          • Morning. Indeed.

            I don’t go by years in charge, I go by cuts, and who did what when.
            I’ve studied it so long I can almost parrot fashion repeat who cut what when.

            Which is why I always list Labour cuts alongside Tory ones as they’re both as bad, and in fact Labour’s period 97 to 2010 set the groundwork for where we are today, especially regards the equipment of the army.

          • Maybe, but it was the Falklands war which stopped some extremely serious Tory cuts from happening , without that event we would have been weaker much much sooner.

          • Yes, indeed. But they didn’t happen, so it’s a what if. The cuts were stayed til 91s OFC then 94s FLF.

            The RN from 35 to 23 escorts, Fast Jet Sqns from 23 to 12 and SSN from 15 to 8 did, ftom 97 on. And all the cuts to the army, equipment not personnel, before 2010 and the Cameron massacre.

            Both are as bad as each other. I don’t believe Labour coming next will be the panacea many are making them out to be.

          • One thing that almost no politicians understand. Lead times in the military for both men and equipment are very long. Any cuts you make CANNOT be restored without very significant delays occurring. If at any time you wish you had more resources available to you, you are already many years too late. I was in a meeting once where an OF-8 (Vice Admiral) tried to explain this to a government Minister; had it not been for an unexpected fire drill, blood would have been spilt.

          • It was proposed Tory cuts that caused the Falklands war. That’s why Nott resigned as he was chief in advocating & implementing them. Thatcher really dropped the ball not sending a warship earlier to deter Argentina, but she only became committed to Falklanders after the invasion happened. Before that they were dispensable. Too much history ha been rewritten since or ignored as not fitting the “saint” Margaret Thatcher hagiograpohy.

          • She had her good points and her bad- too many like to remember only the good.
            I’d like to think distance may remedy that – but I doubt it.

          • More importantly, almost none of the policies which she implemented were of her creation.

          • Yes but history has not been rewritten at all Frank, the points you make are well documented and well understood and no history of the falklands I’ve ever seen ignores the causes. She certainly was no saint and I say that having lived through the miners strike in the home town of Arthur Scargill. The credit to Thatcher was that she was committed, when making a difficult decision and on this decision, she was right to push for a retake despite misgivings in its outcome, she didn’t play it safe as she knew losing those islands by military force was humiliating for this country and had to be corrected. And indeed it was, thanks to the professional and brave people we sent. Before that wake up call, she didn’t give 2 hoots for it. So what you say is no earthquake to the history books.

          • The Nott cuts are continuously over exaggerated.
            The amphibs were saved before the Falklands War.

            All that would go were some obsolete escorts, HMS Invincible and Endurance, whilst SSN numbers would be increased which was a trend Labour had started.

            97 to 2010 was a far worse time for the Navy
            12 SSN reduced to 7
            9 frigates all less than 15 years old cut
            T45 order halved
            Sea Harrier cut
            Invincible decommissioned
            MARS programme was a complete failure and waste of money.
            MCMV cut from 28 to 16
            40% cut in personnel

          • And on. And on. And on. And the RAF cuts, and the Army cuts, and the cancellation of so many programmes leaving the Army having to do them all now. Most of all to the RA.
            Such, such short memories some have.

          • You win 😀 although moving funding of pension onto the mod and the nuke deterrent to the RN was a sneaky thing to do 😀

          • Absolutely bloody outrageous. That little elephant in the room is what is causing the greatest problems to this day.. .That and the Army going round in circles at what it wants.

          • Just as part of that debate, my 95 year old Mother is part of that 2% of gdp that is the defence budget. She gets her share of my late fathers pension, earned over 30+ years service. I fear she would not be up to much in a shooting war, but her widow’s pension allows the politicos to fudge the figures.

          • The Nott cuts under Thatcher directly gave the Agentines the correct impression that we were withdrawing most of our presence from the south Atlantic. Apart from the token Stanley garrison, HMS Endurance was the presence, imminently due to be sold/scrapped. Then our capability to intervene/re-take them if invaded was to be seriously cut by the sale of Hermes & Invincable. The rights of the Falklanders were being quietly pushed aside, until the egg-on-face moment when Argentina invaded.
            Considering the stark reality that we got the Argentine surrender just a few hours before the first big winter storm that would’ve curtailed task force ops, our ships barely servicable after months intensive ops in the S Atlantic desperately needing dockyard time; it was a by-the-skin-of-our-teeth victory. So if Galtieri had just waited another year or so before invading he’d have faced a much weaker RN.

          • there were personal cuts across all three services in the Nott review. Also a Sea King replacement was in the balance

          • excellent commentary Louis. Over the period 97 to 2010, the RAF went from from 23 front line jet squadrons to 8.

          • My balanced view, is they both pay Minimal lip service and as you say are as rubbish as each other….in really the majority of the voters don’t care and if they don’t care then elected politicians don’t care. They only care if it looks like we are heading to war…and even then they are all as likely to deny it will ever happen for as long as they can.

            The only real difference is that Labour have to show they are not hitting manufacturing….so they have to keep a drum beat of ship and other equipment being built and the conservatives have a lot of voters who have an attachment to the military so that moderates them a bit….I’m sure if either side though they could get away with it…we would have nothing more than a limited defence force.

          • Hi J. Having said that, where was the drumbeat of equipment for the Army 97 to 2010?
            Zilch, beyond Titan, Trojan, Terrier, Panther, and the Afghan UORs. After CH2, no follow on, after AS90, nothing, all RA modernisation plans cancelled.

            R&D establishments, sold off, DERA split in two.

            So while I instinctively agree with the comment on Labour and manufacturing, it doesn’t always play out.

          • Governments always want things on the cheap because they believe that the only way to get into power and/or stay there is to offer low levels of personal tax. That applies to parties of all political ideologies.

        • What was West supposed to do ? Clown politicians decided that we could defend the realm without men or equipment and he was tasked with making it happen. I would be very surprised if he did not try to persuade HMG of its stupidity, but he was never going to win that battle; his only other option would have been to resign as a matter of principle but that would not have changed anything.

          • I met Lord Spit n Swallow a few times. I mealy mouthed politician and the worst 1st Sea lord in the history of the RN and that is a long history! Never gave a straight answer to the questions the people he commanded asked him.
            I spoke to people on the side who worked directly for him, and they had an extreme dislike/ hated him.
            Some of the other stuff that was/did the rounds at the time regarding his susceptibility to kompromat was shocking.

    • When the coalition government came to power in 2010, it discovered that its preferred option to scrap the second carrier was much more expensive than building it, so it decided to complete the build and then either sell the ship or put it into “extended readiness” aka mothballs. Some time later somebody managed to make the government understand that 24/7 carrier availability implied at least two (preferably three) ships, and PoW was saved.

  5. I think if Russia spent half as much of their budget on actual tanks and artillery as they do on trolling and starting stupid rumours online, they’d have won the war by now.

    The web is infested with them.

    • By far the greatest inefficiency in the Russian military is money being siphoned off as it flows down the chain of command or out to contractors. I read a RUSI paper which suggested that between 40 per cent and 85 per cent of the budget was “lost” in this way..

    • And there is zero effect on people on the internet listening to this other than simpletons like yourself. Check the scoreboard and try not to get your knickers in a bunch.

      • The British get their knickers in a twist, the Americans get their panties in a bunch, please try to keep your metaphors correct.

      • Ah did you not just comment on one of my posts about name calling (which I didn’t) and look what shite you have commented to another poster! 💩💩💩

  6. one bit of this article that irritated me was saying miss information created cognitive dissonance…misinformation has nothing to do with “creating” cognitive dissonance..cognitive dissonance is created when you are forces to take an action or witness something that does not align with your core values and belief systems….it’s actually one of those nasty little things that pop up in PTSD..so a solder with a Christian/western value system who has a core belief you don’t kill people and then kills in the line of duty will have a massive level of cognitive dissonance ( it’s why in war enemies are dehumanised), the ED nurse who’s forced to prioritise some patients over others and can see it causes suffering will suffer cognitive dissonance…your not getting cognitive dissonance because the Russian trolls are tells you a porkpie…the only time that can really occur is part of an abusive relationship in which a person is gaslighting into doing something they don’t agree with at a deep level. What you do get is that people who suffer an event that causes cognitive dissonance are more susceptible to miss information that will allow them to return to a balance of thought and action (they will be more willing to believe a lie or miss information that justifies their action).

  7. Vlad is always harping on about how he aims to destroy “Anglo-Saxon” Culture, meanwhile, at home, the wokeists (useful idiots to our adversaries) are trying to argue that the Anglo-Saxons did not exist.

      • There are often huge differences in appearance between races (e.g skin colour), but the differences in DNA between those races is extremely small, fractions of a per cent. Having said that there are massive levels of redundancy in our DNA, well over 90 per cent.

  8. This whole discussion sounds like it’s the fault of Russian disinformation…. When in doubt claim it’s Russian disinformation. That sounds like how the US government likes to hide as well. Let’s try to use some critical thinking ourselves, shall we?

    • I am constantly staggered by the way in which the vast majority of people are prepared to believe almost anything they see or hear, and never make any effort at all to check what they have been told. For that reason, I think it is extremely important that we rebut all disinformation as much as we can, and that we use hard facts and rational arguments to do so.

      • Agreed 100%…. We all have the capability to think for ourselves. Or even just try a little bit to think for yourselves. Let’s work on those skills. Anything you hear or read or see for the love of God on the internet question it all.

        • Correct but you do seem to have such an anti-UK stance that your biased gibberish ensures no one bother to listen to your US fanboy blathering!

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