NATO secretary general Jens Stoltenberg has confirmed that an independent Scotland would have to leave the alliance.

“If it happens, then the UK will continue as a member of Nato but a new independent state has to apply for membership and then it is up to 28 allies to decide whether we have a new member.

All decisions in NATO are taken by consensus, so we need the consensus of all allies.

By leaving the UK it will also be leaving Nato, but of course it is possible to apply for membership and then the allies would then decide whether the independent state would become a member of NATO.”

It is understood that many believe Scotland would likely face the issue of having its entry challenged by Spain which is cautious of encouraging break-away states due to the independence movement in its Catalonia region. However in light of Spain’s recent statements regarding their acceptance of Scotland’s entry to the European Union, this is unlikely to be the case.

An independent Scotland would meet most the entry requirements of the alliance however it may not be able to join for many years if approved as the entry process for the alliance is lengthy.

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Ian
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Ian

If a ‘yes’ vote then I don’t think NATO would want a non aligned state on it’s North Western European approaches for long but I do think NATO would be very upset about SNP position on Faslane. I could see Faslane ending up in some kind of trade off. Scotland can join NATO but has to Hong Kong style lease Faslane / Coulport to rUK.

Who knows though, the world’s a very uncertain place right now!

dadsarmy
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dadsarmy

Even the white paper “Scotland’s Future” indicated that Trident would be gone in one term of parliament – but then contradicted itself by talking about a 10 year transition for Faslane to the SDF HQ and naval base. I think that was deliberate “my door is open”. I think as I said below, there would be a 10 year period for the rUK to move its nukes out of Scotland, in exchange for the continuation of the T26 build, plus money, though the money could be in kind like training etc. I also think QRA North would transition, but that’s… Read more »

joe
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joe

What would it matter?

Don’t the Nats hate NATO anyway?

vx
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vx

As a scot I can think of more pressing concerns than NATO.

Ali
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Ali

So summing up the SNP they: 1/ Want to leave the UK because the rest of the country is oppressing them and they aren’t heard, but want to be in the EU where they absolutely won’t get a say in anything at all. 2/ Want the RN out of Scotland because it makes them a nuclear target but thinks it’ll continue to build the RN’s ships and (if this article is correct in alluding to it) now want to stay in NATO where because of membership they will have nuclear weapons on their soil and will be a target for… Read more »

Ian McIntyre
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Ian McIntyre

Ali, we’re an independent Scotland to join the EU it would get a vote, the rotating presidency and a greater number of MSPS. It would also get a veto. But apart from that no changel eh!

Joan watson
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Joan watson

I wonder if you still think the same as before now that other things have come to light.. There is no longer a United Kingdom… More disunited than ever due to your Tory Government… Examples… Our ELECTED FM can NO longer talk to the PM and must deal with the lying David Mundell who Westminster reckon is ranked as the same status as Nicola Sturgeon… JOKE.. After Brexit.. For which 62% of Scots voted to stay in the EU.. Being pulled out against our will. All laws will be returned to Westminster and they will decide which laws are devolved….… Read more »

John fitzpatrick
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To Ali I think if you do a little research you will find out its your Westminster government that thinks Scotland is a money tree.For instance have you ever read the Macrone report.

Geronimo
Guest

Al….i I’m sorry this so called ” partnership of equals” is a non starter as far as Faslane et al is concerned does not bear fruit….you accuse the SNP of unfounded hate would ideally love the thought of you demonstrating to me this over Brexit. The UK is (insanely) heading over a cliff edge despite what the SNP and others have advised and are being totally ignored so where is the blindness there….perhaps ask Coronel Davidson?

Sandra
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Sandra

Then you and the rest won’t miss us then. Excellent, bring it on

Steve Bowers
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Steve Bowers

I love the way people like you are so stupid you don’t even know how far into England Hadrian’s wall is , but hey, if you want to hand over all that extra land mass feel free, at least it won’t get fracked by the Tories !

Mr Bell
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Mr Bell

There are plenty of people in the rUK that do give a hoot. I would say most. i think as it is,uk parliaments decision to hold a referendum or not, lets have the referendum now eg next 4-8 weeks, that should take the wind out of the SNPs sails. I do not want to have to wait 2-3 years for a 2nd Scots referendum and have nothing but talking about Scotland on the news all the time when rUK needs to focus on brexit. I think militarily Scotland will have to stand alone for a while, meaning leave uk and… Read more »

david S
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david S

Well said! Fed-up with the whole thing. Remember also that the costs of these referendums are partly funded by rUK. We are getting to the neverendum where Sturgeon will just keep asking until she gets her way.

Bill
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Bill

Don’t forget my man that that money comes out of Scotland’s budget anyway,money that is grabbed by the uk government,if the truth is known run don’t want Scotland to get independence because they would lose all the resources that Scotland provide ,resources that England doesnt have.

dadsarmy
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dadsarmy

QRA North could move to Leeming, though that’s only about 70 miles further north than Coningsby. It would need work, and relocations from it – I think it’s used as a Hawk training base.

The rest of your post is mostly off-topic politics I’m afraid.

Jim
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Jim

If Scotland was blocked from joining NATO we could simply see what the WP had to offer, or you could put it back in your trousers and stop being stupid…

Steve Bowers
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Steve Bowers

You’re spot on old fruit, that’s why Westminster is so gaggingly desperate to hold on to Scotland, they love spending out the money on us.
A Gov that won’t even subsidise a spare bedroom to keep medical equipment for a sick child yet you think they subsidise an entire nation.
Any more at home as stupid as you ?

David
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David

Even if Scotland leave, which I think this time round wont happen, I don’t believe for a minute that the UK ( and it is the UK not rUK) will allow our northern border to sit defenceless for years to come. Lets all try and remember that the Scots are not the enemy, as a people they are our very good friends, its only the SNP that are the issue. We might have to remove our Nukes from Scotland but other defence issues will simply be by agreement. My bet is that Scotland would join NATO as soon as was… Read more »

dadsarmy
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dadsarmy

I am a “Nat”, but imagine for a minute I’m the Secretary General of NATO, no don’t laugh, and am faced with this referendum of Independence for Scotland from the UK. My duty is to NATO and the 28 members, and for this my prime concern is the UK, a very valuable perhaps vital member. So while not taking sides in a purely internal member matter, I clearly lay out the problems Scotland will have, the membership requirements, that a MAP would be needed to be set up and at least implemented in some basic measures. And then I leave… Read more »

dadsarmy
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dadsarmy

Mmm, mind you I think my phone call to Sarah would be very short: “OK, it’s Plan B then”.

David Stephen
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David Stephen

Why would we move the nukes? Much easier to annex Faslane and the surrounding area, much like Akotiri. If my deluded countrymen really do press the self destruct button (they wont) then it would be clear to me that the rest of the UK would owe Scotland zilch. Therefore to hell with them and act in the best interests of the rest of UK which would be best served by retaining the current submarine base.

Joan watson
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Joan watson

I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but the problem is NOT the SNP.. The trouble is that most of England ( NOT SCOTLAND) voted for Brexit.. 62% of Scotland voted to remain… Where is the Democracy in that.?.. The SNP are only speaking for 62% who are being treated unfa1irly because of a decision made south of the border. The Tory Government is causing a bigger rift between the 2 Countries than the SNP will ever make… I’m not Anti English as I have friends and family who live there. What I am against is being told by a bunch… Read more »

Geronimo
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joan Watson….here here

dadsarmy
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dadsarmy

Mr Stoltenberg is of course absolutely correct. Independent Scotland would have to go through the formal process of applying and being accepted by the current NATO members, and there would need to be a Membership Action Plan for Scotland, agreed between NATO and the Scottish Government. Would NATO want us? You’d think so, we do cover the GIUK (Greenland Iceland UK ) gap, and in fact so much it would have to be renamed the GIS gap. Strategically NATO diminishes far too much without us. But while that formal application was going through what then? First I’d think NATO would… Read more »

David Stephen
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David Stephen

Cover the GIUK gap with what? A trawler? Where will the money for even a trawler come from?

Geronimo
Guest

A very unreasoned reply

JohnH
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JohnH

I can’t help wondering if Sturgeon’s antics are just a part of Putin’s stealth attack on the west & NATO.

joe
Guest
joe

If one looks into the past & origins of the SNP…. well, suffice to say that if it was an enemy of Britain then it was a friend of the SNP.
What else could one expect from Scotland’s version of Sinn Fein.

I think the NATO thing is a misnomer, the supposedly socialist SNP wouldn’t be caught dead in that ‘tool of western imperialism’.
They’d sooner join the “collective security treaty organisation” with Russia & Kazakhstan etc.

dadsarmy
Guest
dadsarmy

“Following a vote for independence in 2014, the Scottish Government will notify NATO of our intention to join the alliance and will negotiate our transition from being a NATO member as part of the UK to becoming an independent member of the alliance. Scotland would take our place as one of the many non-nuclear members of NATO. ”

It’s still SNP Independence policy.

Personally I think it’s up to the rUK if it wants to

joe
Guest
joe

A very Sinn Fein move.

“Don’t like this policy?”
“Don’t worry, come back in 5 minutes and we’ll have it changed”

Changing from being fervently anti-NATO to being pro-NATO when it became politically expedient show what a sham the SNP are.

dadsarmy
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dadsarmy

It was fiercely debated at the SNP conference (I watched on TV), and 2 MSPs became Independent after it, with a third after the Ref. The vote was close – around 52% I think.

But that 52% was around the same as an internal poll of members carried out in 2011 I found online, who supported full NATO membership as opposed to the previous policy of Partners for Peace (same as Ireland and Russia).

As membership changes, so do views.

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

Ha ha, how very true. Mad communists who would watch Scotland burn if they could rule the ashes.

Ali
Guest
Ali

“Agreed access”? So some nationlists think they are going to hold the UK to ransom over nuclear warheads? Interesting… lets wait and see what happens. If the SNP gets its way it will end badly. And thats badly for Scotland… it would be very upsetting for the UK but nothing that couldn’t be economically and socially absorbed very quickly. Somehow I doubt very much the UK will be held to ransom over nuclear weapons. Also I doubt such behaviour would endear a new country to NATO. I have met quite a few SNP supporters who base their ideas on fantasy… Read more »

dadsarmy
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dadsarmy

Oh dear.

“4 All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.”

You seem to be a Braveheart fan. Good movie.

Yes, there were members of the SNP in the 51st as well as others, and it was a Scot basically started the SAS, with their motto thought to originate from the Scots: “Wha daur meddle wi me?”

Ian
Guest
Ian

Haha – I do like dadsarmy even though he might well make me cry if my love of our peoples and nations turns out to be unrequited in IR2

dadsarmy
Guest
dadsarmy

We’ll still love you Ian 🙂

David
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David

@dadsarmy

…..and it was a good Irishman (Paddy Mayne) who took over after Captain Sterling’s capture in Tunisia :-).

fearlesstunafish
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fearlesstunafish

The problem with an independent Scotland wanting to rejoin NATO with the SNP in charge as far as i can see it has nothing to do with Spain and is mainly that the SNP is anti nuclear, yet NATO is a nuclear alliance… so what they are basically saying by wanting to rejoin NATO is, we want the reassurance of a nuclear umbrella, we just don’t want to pay for it our have it parked in our backyard… which is to me at least a massive act of hypocrisy! unless of course they know this and plan on doing some… Read more »

Mr Bell
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Mr Bell

I think the SNP need to be in no doubt that the following military consequences of Scottish independence vote will occur. 1) All MOD shipbuilding on the Clyde will end The first and possibly 2nd type 26 may get built otherwise all those jobs will move south of the border. 2)) The nuclear deterrent with not be based in an independent country with the rUK being held to ransom by Scotland and having to pay Scotland to use bases uk taxpayers money built. 3) Covering the GIUK gap will have to fall on Scotlands shoulders, their territory, their responsibility. Good… Read more »

dadsarmy
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dadsarmy

In reply by number (thanks). 2). Conventional “wisdom” has it that Scotland is against “WMD”, but polls have proven this wrong. Recently from a Panelbase poll of Scotland taken by Wings, a PRO-Indy website, 46% said that the UK should retain its nukes, with 37% against. But 27% said the UK’s nukes should be in Scotland compared to 46% against. I think that’s both about right. For continued location of nukes in Scotland there’s the NPT, which means in effect that they can’t stay long – and in any case if I was Fallon I’d want them in my country,… Read more »

Mr Bell
Guest
Mr Bell

Oh also forgot to add point 6) QRA north can easily relocate to a new airbase built by MOD in Cumbria or Northumberland. Dadsarmy is simply wrong when he says this cannot be done. Did he not see the size and capability of camp bastion in afghan. This base was built rapidly and was utterly effective as a frontline RAF and Army base, similar thing could easily be built in 12-18 months as a stop gap measure until the fully hardened hangars, silos and shelters can be built. RAF leeming was proposed as a supporting atop gap measure. A Eurofighter… Read more »

dadsarmy
Guest
dadsarmy

6). Camp Bastion is like comparing apples to oranges. Nobody doubts the capability of the Engineers. But primarily in the UK it’s a case of ground, ownership, planning permissions, public inquiries, flightpath research – and building according to stringent – civil – safety standards. Unless it’s under war conditions, the MOD is just as subject to civil laws as the rest of us. Nearer 15 mins at Mach 2 compared with Lossie. And that’s 15 mins each way, which means 30 mins less duration, and time in combat, if neccessary, as important for intercept as air supremacy. If say it… Read more »

John Stevens
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John Stevens

It’s a massive gamble being taken by the SNP having a ref part 2 so soon after the last one.. If the Scot’s vote to stay in the UK then the First Minister would probably end up resigning her post plus Scotland would stay in the UK for the foreseeable future. Don’t forget what happened with French Quebec ! But without Scotland in the UK things would be fine, still would be a nation of 60 million people and one of the larger European nations when it’s comes to the size of economy. I think the Scot’s would have more… Read more »

John Stevens
Guest
John Stevens

Saying all of that i would prefer the Scot’s to stay in the UK, but if they left i would feel fairly relaxed about the whole thing.. I would feel sorry for the Scot’s that wanted to stay in the UK though, they could come down south and join the other million or so Scot’s that live down here.. Big Grin !!!

John Hirst
Guest
John Hirst

If ifs and ands were pots and pans there’d be no need for tinkers. If Scotland leaves the UK, so be it. If the Forces currently in Scotland need to come south, so be it. If we down south need to build new bases, so be it. The silliness of those in Scotland who think we would be utterly defenceless without them is laughable. In the scheme of things you will become a slight consideration, not a necessity. Good luck, you will need it. If things begin not to go well referendum wise, please ask us to hold one here,… Read more »