Sinn Féin spokesperson on Foreign Affairs and Defence, Matt Carthy TD, has said that reports of the Royal Navy navy ‘chasing off’ a Russian submarine from undersea cables near Cork harbour represents ‘an embarrassing product of the failure of Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil governments to adequately invest in the Irish Defence Forces.
Deputy Carthy criticised the delays in ensuring that the Irish Naval Service vessels have sufficient sonar equipment.
Teachta Carthy said:
“Reports that the British navy was forced to ‘chase off’ a Russian submarine positioned directly outside of Cork Harbour represents an embarrassing product of the failure of successive Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil governments to adequately invest in the Irish Defence Forces.
That failure continues. It is simply not good enough that Irish Naval Service vessels do not have sonar equipment. It has been long promised, but as with so many aspects of Defence Forces development progress has been painfully slow.
The Commission on the Defence Forces set out a need for capital expenditure of €246.5 million each year over ten years in order to meet Level of Ambition 2 (LOA2).
Last year the government missed that target by €70 million. In Budget 2024, they missed it again, by another €70 million.
The lack of capacity in terms of equipment and personnel within our Defence Forces is a result of the failures of successive Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael governments. It has led to the embarrassment of needing other states to inform us as to what is happening in our skies and seas, and it is an insult to the men and women of the Defence Forces. Sinn Féin wants to build our Defence Forces to protect Irish neutrality and sovereignty; monitor and defend our skies and seas; and safeguard our people from modern threats, including cyber and hybrid attacks.
In our alternative budget for 2024, Sinn Féin committed to deliver the capital funding levels required to achieve LOA2 from next year – that is what is required. Rather than concentrating on removing the triple-lock neutrality protection, Micheál Martin and government should instead focus on building the capacity of our Defence Forces.”
Hi folks hope all is well. I can understand the statement made, however, it’s not surprising considering the lack of investment over possibly decades. Even by a miracle that the Irish government triggers off a huge defence budget, and obviously taking into account the size of the population to fund a large defence budget. It would be years to have a reasonable military for the size of that nation. Of course I believe the point has been made here before. In the event of a united Ireland, and all the issues that will return to the troubles with unionist groups… Read more »
This just a political statement. If they were serious about fixing the issue they would have a plan to do it, but they don’t which tells me they know it won’t be a priority should they get into power.
And to be honest why would they, they know due to their positioning, defence will be provided for free by the UK. Government expenditure is always a balancing game, if you increase in one area you have to cut in another and that loses votes for people that value the area being cut.
Plus anyone serious about attacking Ireland would have to go through the whole of Europe before reaching them.
Not if you were a Russian submarine cutting their cables.
Yeah it’s like no one has ever invented the flanking attack. Elizabeth 1 specifically re anglicised Ireland for the precise reason that Spain wouldn’t have to actually go through France to invade or strangle mainland Britain. Certain factors have need changed since then but others make it even more a threat today. There’s a reason Roosevelt wanted to take control of the Irish ports or indeed why the most important port in operations against the U-boat (except arguably Liverpool) was the most westerly port in Northern Ireland.
Flanking attack by naval isn’t really viable, as ok you can sink some stuff but to land enough troops to do anything would require significant mobility which would be seen coming miles off.
It would require dozens of ships to transport the few thousand troops and equipment needed to land a decent force that could self sustain.
Outside China which country has the capability to do that, Russia no longer does and realistically why would China attack Ireland.
From a Russian point of view, Ireland is an unsinkable aircraft carrier moored of the coast of Britain. We could end up with an Icelandic scenario, where the UK has to “invade” Ireland to prevent a Russian ground invasion “Neutral” Irish airspace also extends to within a few miles of the British coastline, with Russian long-range bombers regularly flying practice misions to points Northwest of Ireland. From there they could launch long-range missile attacks that could easily hit UK mainland targets via Irish airspace. As we have now be declared “the main bastards” involved in helping Ukraine against Russia, by… Read more »
Russia has nothing left to create a bridgehead with. Their forces are almost fully depleted and relying on conscripts and their landing ships mainly sunk. Not to mention their airforce and helicopter force is mostly destroyed. If the Ukraine war ends they will still have a sizeable landforce but lack any enablers to attack anyone. Not to mention the war appears far from over, with massive Russian losses happening almost daily.
You are talkiing about today. Russia has now moved to a full-on wartime economy. Tomorrow may be different
When was that announced, not seen it in the news? Would be a big change, although not sure enough at this stage, their losses are too significant
They do have a plan. The Irish government is not adhering to it for some reason. Over the years Ireland has free loaded like alot of European countries when it comes to defence. Also expenditure is of course relative but even then Irish expenditure is awful.
Due to the size t the Irish coffees, there’s no real excuse for them as an island nation, not vto Have a reasonable sized navy. There’s no ambition to have one, nor has there ever been one Ireland has expected that the u.k royal navy will carry out their needs
Actually there’s a fair amount being done internally at the moment, for example over the weekend the future plan for the ARW, its just that there so many issues that its slow going. Whether or not the LoA2 actually happens by 2028 is another question
The usual Sinn Féin cheap political shot, as if they would do anything else! Obviously Ireland needs to provide basic levels of self defence, but it’s been allowed to erode so far it’s all disappeared. The cost and complexity of building capabilities from scratch is far beyond what the Irish government is prepared to pay and from what Mark has mentioned in the past, the general public also have zero interest in too unfortunately. Is it possible to contract such a service from a private company I wonder? If you could contract a private company to sonar check critical underwater… Read more »
The Irish armed forces are five farmers with pitchforks and shotguns a kite and a bloke with a canoe 🛶
The population of Ireland is about 5million. The population of Northern Ireland is about 2 million. The population of Finland is about 5.5million. Just sayin’.
Indeed I think Switzerland is an even better example, it’s population is still only 8 million….and it’s a neutral nation literally surrounded on all sides by essentially benign friendly nations…all of with have decent armies, and airforces….even so Switzerland takes its neutrality seriously and have 30 F18 and 53 F5 for air policing their quite frankly tiny little airspace…they have an 8 billion project budget set aside for replacement and upgrade as well.
A couple of pinging ww2 asw corvettes and a small flight of M346 perhaps? Just enough to let the ruskies know that there are boundaries.
Switzerland is indeed a good example, while Finland less so. 2 PPAs for ASW and 4 EPC would be a cost effective solution, along with the M346.
There should be talks in the background where the Irish are told that th u.k in its current position is unable look after Ireland plus the rest of the u.k. and that it is time for them to do their share.
Exactly. We need Ireland to help themselves. The world is changed. Putin means everyone needs to be on the team.
Economy gdp Swiss 818 billion v Ireland 533 billion dollars. Closer than I expected. Finland 302 billion.
It not just a bout numbers, it’s about ambition and where it sees itself in the world order
It is easy to say “Look the population of Ireland is almost the same as Finland (sic)” but you need to remember that Finland has had over 100 years of existential threat of invasion ever since they gained independence from Russia. They have built up their current military capability over that time frame. Ireland has not faced that same level of existential threat since they gained independence at roughly the same time. Introducing high end expensive military capabilities that Finland has would be a very hard sell to the Irish public. There are other areas of concern with Ireland when… Read more »
Mmm the “likely hood of unification”? Don’t know who you are listening too but there are no noises here for it! Once the people see that the NHS and all their Govt jobs are going to disappear then we would see where any vote would take us.
Apart from the fact that NI NHS is not only one of the worst of the Trusts but actually has worse figures than the HSE. As for the jobs, given the budget pressures that’s not a long term guarantee.
Unfortunately the NI NHS is profoundly buggered. But that’s because power sharing has collapsed for so long and it’s essentially been on autopilot from a leadership point of view…I’m not sure if the DUP will get back around the table and restore power sharing soon…I hope they do because it’s seriously damaging NIs present and future.
Then you are not listening very hard. Polling in NI shows that there is an increase in support for unification not only from the Catholic community but also the Protestant community. There is an active debate within the Republic of Ireland about the possibility of unification over the next ten to twenty years. Top of the concern list is health care. There is no way ethically for the NHS to be taken away from NI post unification but that means one would need to be introduced in the Republic for fairness. You can bury your head in the sand if… Read more »
Funny that because nobody I know family or work has been polled! You would have thought something this important would go beyond a couple of hundred people! Or indeed we would have heard about it.
The Belfast Telegraph has done polling with Lucid over the years, the Irish Time has done some recently as well. Then there is the broader point of the voting patterns with the Nationalist block effectively equalling the Unionist block with the growth of the “neither” option sitting in the middle, that block as you could expect has different positions within it on the constitutional question.
As suggested I have taken my head out of the sand and I can find numerous articles and polls on the subject👍If you want to believe the Irish times and the south Belfast mp then carry on. But from January 22 up to now most of the polls have a no. No matter what you think of the NI NHS it’s done me and my family ok once you get through A&E and into the system!
No skin off my nose tbh, I really don’t want the Republic to have to deal with both sides of NI, and that’s not even counting the ones willing to commit violence. And then you get to the costs of just keeping the lights on in NI.
As for the health systems, as said NI NHS has slipped in many areas behind the HSE (have we stopped supplying cover for ambulances for NI?), but both systems are just never ending budget nightmares.
This is a defence forum and the NHS is nothing to do with it. Get back to the site
https://factcheckni.org/articles/is-there-no-growth-in-public-support-for-a-united-ireland-is-support-shrinking-instead/
So the fact check shows that different polls show different conclusions. I stand by my position. Get over it!
You did actually read the above didn’t you 😂😂
Stuff northern Ireland it’s just a drain in the rest of the u.k it’s politicians can’t agree on the day of the week its a jok. And digging up the border and letting it drift away would suit me
Oh dear what an angry sailor you are🙄now do one and get back into your box,if you don’t want to contribute to the discussion don’t read it!
NHS? CHANGE THE SUBJECT
To be honest on a lot of measures the republics healthcare system is better that the different Uk systems….it was shocking a coupe of decades ago…but continued investment and the fact it’s small means it’s now good ( small countries alway tend to have better healthcare systems for the same level of investment per person than larger counties…it’s just one of those things..it’s easier to put in innovation in a system looking after 5 million people than it is for 50million…Irish demographics are better that. The Uk as well and I’m afraid a simple truth is the more old people… Read more »
FYI To be entitled to free healthcare in Ireland, as you are in the UK, a single person has to earn less than €184 per week and a couple €266. This means most people in Ireland have to pay for health care. Even a single person on mimimum wage, working a 30 hour week, would earn significantly more than that. To see a GP costs €70 a visit. A repeat prescription costs €25. You then have to pay for your own medication up to 80€ per month. That’s nearly 1K per annum if you have a long term condition. Lost… Read more »
Typo: possesses
Thank you a realist at last👍
Merry Christmas
Hi Mark…just one point no healthcare is free, it all costs a fortune..someone has to pay for it….in Ireland they have a 80/20 split between private and public expenditure..in the UK it’s more like 10-15% ( but we still have to pay for dental, optometrists, prescriptions, none emergency transport to and from hospital…some people have to pay a fortune to get to an ED for urgent care)…in the US it’s a 50/50 split….
But even public expenditure costs us individually..we all have to pay one way or another.
Still insignificantly miniscule compared to health costs to the individual in the ROI. We all pay tax as well in the ROI, except Apple, Meta, Google etc.
Healthcare? What about warships?
As you say, completely different culture and history = different outcome. Personally I’d be sorry to see Ireland give up its claim to be the ‘land of saints and scholars’. If they can stand the indignity I’d be happy to look after them as we do now. But they seem determined to disown their history as evangelists in chief ….so they will lose their privileged status.
What?
Christmas eve ramble…:-)
Have a good one.
Ireland is another Belgium It’s not our issue
Yes and no, I mean even a 1% budget would give over €3 billion for a defence budget, something that really is sustainable. The major issue is unlike the other neutrals mentioned it’s not about replacing existing capabilities, it’s about creating entire new areas for the DF, which would cost a hell of a lot more than replacement and would take at least a decade if not two of continuous investment and political support…
If there is any chance of unification expect the security and defence budgets to go up anyway as they will be needed.
I agree, the underlying issue is going from a cold start when it comes to introducing capabilities. Also Ireland struggles with recruitment which doesn’t help.
To be fair we aren’t alone in that issue, I mean isn’t the RN facing a shortfall in recruitment this year? It’s more a complete failure to engage on Retention issues that have led to the current crisis, and the Departments knew it was coming for over a decade.
And Finland has it’s own modern forces.
Like John Clark, I think this is a cheap shot from a party that may be in power next year… expect a ricochet moment.
I used to go to school with a fella called Rick O’chet.
,,🌧️😀🌧️
How about saying a thank you to the RN instead ?
There is no good reason for this “Anti-British” attitude to persist.
Just cheap political tricks from the Irish SNP mate, you would expect nothing else really ….
Like the SNP, Sinn Féin are a one trick pony and folks will eventually get tied of the same single policy of table thumping ‘woe is me, it’s all Westminster’s fault’.
The irony here of course, is that many of the youngsters that Sinn Fein try to engage ( and require support from) simply arn’t interested, they regard themselves as EU citizens and the old arguments are of less and less interest…..
I hope you are right about that. Holding on to anger about long-gone “historic injustices” does nobody any good… it seems SF’s whole existence revolves around digging up dirt bout the UK.
The historic injustices are real. In 1845 – 1849 over a million Irish starved to death – while rich English estate owners exported thousands of tons of Irish grain. The Irish achieved independence after a referendum that left 6 counties of Ulster remaining in the Union and 3 choosing to join the Irish Free State. They then fought a civil war 1919 – 1921 between the IRA and the Free State forces (who were armed by the British) where hundreds of lives were lost on both sides. The partition of Ireland was supported by those Irish who were so desperate… Read more »
There’s a lot of mistakes in that post tbh.
Mark, I don’t post to often but quite enjoy reading most things people post… Well apart from him.
Many share your sentiment 😀
So tell me, I’m always eager to learn. Irish politics still reflects the divide – Fine Gael is still the pro-treaty party and Fianna Fail the republican anti-treaty side
There was no “referendum” on any matter at the time, and the composition of NI had been decided between London and Belfast during the War of Independence and presented to the Irish delegation, with the threat of renewed conflict if it was refused.
The split occured mainly because a)Dev was being himself as ever and b) many of those that opposed the treaty had delusions of what was possible.
Wow like potato blight only affected Ireland and not the whole of Europe and the Uk was not also sending aid to Ireland.
Get yourself on Wikipedia. Google is your friend.
Oh, here we go, someone will bring up leaving the lights on next🤣🤣😂
Stupid boy. Go and sit on the naughty step for the rest of the day
Feeling downtrodden and blaming the “English” (not the Scots or Welsh, just the English) is the national pastime for some on both sides of the border. The potato blight affected the entire British Isles as well as Europe. The corn purchase was too little, too late. The inaction of Parliament was a shameful note in British history. We should have done more, much more. Whether it was racism, corruption or downright apathy, those responsible should have hung their heads in shame forevermore. We cannot turn the clock back and correct the woeful errors made in 1845-52. None of the people… Read more »
The injustices may well be real David, but they are historic in nature…. Do the Israelis constantly attack the Germans over a monstrous and still utterly unimaginable Holocaust, something that’s still within living memory? A holocaust that makes the Anglo Irish troubles look like a neighbourhood spat over a borrowed lawnmower. No they don’t, they were in fact happily trading with West Germany 15 years after the War. So I don’t buy the “brooding over the British colonial injustice” approach, l honestly believe most Irish people don’t care about such things today, they have moved on and those that haven’t… Read more »
“l honestly believe most Irish people don’t care about such things today”
The Troubles are still a raw nerve among many folk on both sides of the divide. That’s why Varadkar has decided to take the UK to the ECHR over Johnson’s decision to draw a line under more investigations over allegations of “collusion” and “shoot to kill”
The Provos managed to shoot/blow up about 1000 British soldiers and RUC. The amnesty includes those responsible – but the Irish like the narrative that it was only the Brits who were doing the killing.
Following Boris’ ‘oven ready’ Brexit deal, Putin is working to open up old wounds and drive another wedge between the UK and Ireland and hence the EU. Were the UK to offer Ireland defence help officially and the Fine Gael – Fianna Fail coalition accept, it would be political suicide. SF know this. Keeping a low profile with defence help is in both nation’s interest. Ireland has serious issues with poverty and homelessness. SF positions itself to younger voters as the secular party of social justice, the future; the torch bearer of Irish identity while characterising FF and FG as… Read more »
Like it or not, Eire and the UK signed a defence agreement in 2015. The then UK Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, and his Irish counterpart, Simon Coveney, signed a Memorandum of Understanding between the UK and the Republic of Ireland to ensure greater defence collaboration. For years official policy in Dublin has been to refuse to publicly discuss Ireland’s air defence arrangements with the UK or the presence of RAF interceptors in Irish airspace. However, according to published interviews with political, diplomatic and military figures, such an agreement goes back over 70 years to the early days of the Cold… Read more »
The diplomatic equivalent of a gentleman’s agreement. Short of a formal registered treaty and no need for involvement of either legislature. Probably not legally enforceable in international law. Perfect 🙂
I could not put it better myself!
1849 was 178 years ago
1921 was 102 years ago
WW2 was only 78 years ago, should we still be angry at the Germans for all the V2s that landed on London?
Get over yourself, stop stoking the hate
At the end of the day, no solution would have satisfied both sides, partition was seen as the best of the options they had as a united Ireland only works if the 2 sides are willing to get along and considering the 2 sides hate each other over religion differences
I have replied to your unpleasant post with some advice but unfortunately it was moderated
👍
Yeah I suspect there is more to why the British Government decided to partition Ireland and I have a suspicion that the Irish Civil War had a part to play but the war would have been avoid if WW1 had not got in the way of Irish Home Rule Bill going through
Really? The Irish Civil War, sparked after the signing of the Treaty that recognised the already existing state of Northern Ireland had a part in the creation of NI? You do realise that the War of Independence was still going when the King opened the NI parliament?
As for what might have happened without WW1, most likely a rebellion in Ulster backed by the Army units in Ireland and supported by the Tories.
Consider the Irish Nationalists were smart enough to leave King George 5 alone when he opened the Northern Ireland Parliament as any successful attempt on KG5 will result in the Britishh getting involved
The Nationalists in NI at the time were busy trying to avoid Loyalist attacks on them, with violence and street burning happening even in the weeks around his visit.
Ireland has NOTHING TO DO WITH A UK DEFENCE JOURNAL, I DON’T GIVE A STUFF ABOUT IT. GET OFF THIS ODIOUS ISSUE
Mmm you did read the headline for this article didn’t you? I pretty sure Ireland was mentioned. Now just because Santa didn’t bring you all you wanted go away and shout somewhere else👍
Yet the British aided the precursor to the Republic of Ireland in that conflict but I suspect they were trying to prevent a civil war considering Lloyd George’s government probably was not keen on letting the Irish Catholics and Protestants trying to genocide the other which is where it would go without sensible people trying to intervene and sort it out
? The Civil War was sparked in part because of the demands of London to attack the Four Courts or allow British Forces to do so instead. Nor was there any serious attempt at “genocide” nor calls for it.
The problem with conflict based on religion, the only way the 2 sides it seems can only see to resolve it is by wiping the other side out
while there weren’t any serious attempts or calls for genocide, considering it was in the post-WW1 where you had a genocide happen and no sane Irish leader wanted to go as far as the Ottomans did
Rrubbish
Insightful comment as always.
When it comes to the Irish potato famine, it is far more complicated than what Irish nationalist want you to think
The potato famine was a problem across Europe not just Ireland
The primary cause of the famine was potato blight getting into the food supply something that i have personal experience in dealing with at Green’s Windmill garden we have had happen to potato we were growing last year if I remember rightly
Arguably the British Government of the late 1840s did not handle the Famine correctly, their response was inadequate
Good post which I believe highlights the key issue; European nations handled the famine more promptly and in more compassionate and pragmatic way – they were helping people they understood to be their own citizens. Notwithstanding its proximity Britain still viewed Ireland with a colonial mindset.
The dude didn’t say the injustices aren’t real. What do you gain from this? Do you want money? Move forward from this, the younger generation and most of the old generation have absolutely no involvement or hate towards the irish or agree with what historically we have done to ireland. Should we punish the youth that havent even lived during the troubles? Ireland is successful and not being oppressed anymore and even gets free defence by the looks of it. ive never received any hate before in dublin for being British, in fact have been very welcomed and even have… Read more »
Unfortunately and sadly the British treatment of Ireland is probably one of the most shameful episodes of our history…sadly fuelled in the main by fear and religion… The only thing I would say is at the time the Irish potatoes famine was unstoppable…as a geo history fanatic I would say the following about the famine ( and this is a gross simplification). The potatoe famine was causes but British policy going back to the time of Elizabeth and Cromwell, but could not be prevented at the time it occurred….so key facts 1) the Irish dependence on the potatoe was causes… Read more »
Thanks for your interesting and detailed reply. As a number of my posts on this topic have been moderated I’ll say no more about it. Seasons greetings m8
The old death by moderation….have a great Christmas and I look forward to more debates and interesting discussions in 2024.
Yeah but let not forget that Queen Elizabeth the 1st was made anti-catholic by the way she was treated by them, as they tried to have her executed for her faith
these problems go back centuries and both Protestant and Catholic religon have fault in this
As I noted knight it was driven by religion and fear…the fear came from the fact England was a tiny Protestant power surrounded by Catholic superpowers whose avowed aim was to destroy them..Ireland was a knife in the back of England….the popery laws were driven by fear of Catholicism that was based in the reality of the 17c by the late 18c Britain was a power in its own right and major catholic superpowers were in their twilight years…there was no need to keep on going at the Irish Catholics…but the popery act was not repealed until the 19c (1871… Read more »
So David, are you saying we owe it to the Irish to help them as some form of reparation for the past? I think we’d have to be very careful here, if you do, as it would set a precidence with all former lands and colonies. Whilst I wouldn’t be totally unsympathetic to this sentiment I don’t go along with the thinking some have that millions needs to be paid out. I would also worry that our Navy and Airforce, a shadow of their former selves in terms of assets and manpower, would have the resources in which to police… Read more »
Who really gives a toss about Ireland
I think that was about as near as you will get. And I didn’t read anything anti Brit in it (which was a bit of a surprise).
Politicians know it plays well to the voters .See Varadkar.
Detecting it is one thing, doing something about it is another.
They lack the ability to do either. Just as they lack the ability to police their own skies,
SF being SF, they have been against spending on Defence since this version of SF came into being, and hell still struggle to even accept the DF. But now that they have scrubbed their online history of pro Russian/anti West posts they are suddenly discovering issues in Defence. I mean some of them would have been happy for limited patrols back in the day, might have kept them out of prison.
Ireland are a member of the European union therefore France should help with defence matters.
Strange that I’m making the same answer to a statement made by a. user on another page of ukdj. Northern Ireland is in the UK 🇬🇧, not the EU 🇪🇺
Goes by the user Kai?? 😳 😎.
The poster said Ireland, didn’t make any mention of NI.
Making sure of clarity 😊
OK the Republic of Ireland is a member of the European Union therefore France should help with defence matters happy!
Thank you, and I agree with you.
👍 But there’s more chance of a coal mine opening 😊
A bit rich coming from the political wing of the PIRA. If, just if they win in the elections? Expect nothing other than rhetoric and grandstanding. They are a Marxist entity like the SNP. Extremists to the core. A leopard NEVER changes spots.
Question for those experts among you. J ust how much sonar is actually required to monitor cables on the bottom? Would a decent commercial survey/fish finder set be adequate? You are not necessarily hunting subs…or would you need to? Trolling up and down pinging away..would this be sufficient deterrent on its own? Small remote piloted jobs would need a ship nearby, but a decent nav radar duch as sharpeye would be sufficient for this.
AA
SOSUS/IUSS exists too.
For the day to day security sweep I would agree with you, you would still need a naval force sufficiently armed to back up any chicanery. The Russians have used a mix of ‘science vessels’ and armed frigates in their loitering in the past.
A quick Google finds that Iceland has no army, but it does have an extensive militarised coast guard force with air defence capacity and a police “tactical unit”.
Perhaps that should be the model for the Irish defence setup? Don’t know how small a cutter they could get away with, but in any case some sort of main radar capability is called for.
AA
Irish waters are pretty bumpy. They require a minimum of c 80-85m & 1800-2000 t displacement to operate (similar to the Rivers). The Irish abandoned helicopter operations as sea states are rarely calm enough to allow them (I believe they have plans for a single larger, more stable, vessel to accomodate this in the future) It would probably be better for them to copy the RNs approach with some large re-purposed OSVs and offboard systems for undersea infrastructure surveillance. For ASW, a combination of MPA (C235/295-based maybe) and a couple of genuine ASW surface platforms (i.e. frigates) would probably be… Read more »
Sinn Fein are expert gaslighters. They have been against virtually all military spending, equipment upgrades, co operations with allied countries etc. Many of their supporters struggle to recognise the legitimacy of the state and its institutions including the defence forces. They are as likely to consider the provision of ASW sonar and weaponry as unnecessary, overly militaristic and, er, provocative.
They are also against bad weather, .
A similar reliance exists between the UK and US. The glorious HMG assume the US will cover anything they think they can get away without funding. Nations should learn to stand on their own feet.
Like most folks I lived through the Troubles, I was born in the nearest bit of the UK and we were just glad the sectarian hatred’s spread over to Galloway. SF is a political party in both parts of Ireland and if the people of Northern Ireland can put up with each other fairly peacefully 🤞🏻. Fact is that next year 2 things may happen that we don’t like SF takes charge of the Government of Eire and Trump gets back in. We may well have to learn to accept both. Long term we actually do need to acknowledge that… Read more »
It’s criticism for the sake of it. Ireland in this modern era of free child schooling and medical care could never afford to defend against an adversary like Russia. Sinn Fein I bet come up with no viable alternative. It’s one of the drawbacks of leaving the Union. It’s same with medical care the UK still contribute to Irish health system. So a large person who does not fit in a normal MRI scanner are sent to England which has 2 large scanners for free, by way of an example. Given they accept that, why do not contribute to the… Read more »
Ah, we share medical resources because its effective, just like the decision the NHS made to downgrade some of NI’s capacity and instead use Dublin for some major children’s operations, or the fact that Dublin invests in Derry’s hospital so that people in Donegal can use it instead of travelling further.
I spent 15 years in the RN. Every ship I served on had at least 1 dude from south of the border. Good people all of them. Just wanted to make that point.
Those transatlantic cables are ultimately used by the UK and others. So in my mind whether it’s the Irish or the British protecting them it doesn’t matter. If they get cut the money lost to commerce will be in the Billions.
Can’t wait for the opposition of the day to bitch when that happens.
I live in the ROI and defence spending is of zero interest to voters. The Irish government is nevertheless increasing defence spending from c.0.3 of GDP last year to c.0.5% by 2028. An annual increase of 8-10% a year in real terms. But the initial priority is retention and recruitment. For example the Irish Naval Service has less than 800 trained personnel, and is only able to fully man and operate two OPV’s. The lack of manpower has resulted in 4 other ships being placed in reserve, whilst two Inshore Patrol Craft recently purchased from New Zealand are used only… Read more »
A statement has been made https://youtu.be/MR6jGJ1lq2U?si=R2RiF_qd4yvKANUj
Decent thing to do would be for Ireland to join NATO and fund 3% of its GDP to defence whilst benefiting from the collective defence coming from both sides of the island.
Given Ireland has the 3rd highest GDP per person world wide that would easily fund a military.
However given Ireland can get it for free…. why would they…. they might have to raise their corporate taxes.
Don’t believe Irish gdp figures. They are vastly inflated by US owned multi nationals booking transactions in Ireland to minimize taxes. In reality, Ireland is one of the poorer countries in western Europe.
It really isn’t, the GNI figures put us average at worst.
You can have poor people in any rich country. The GDP is still booked in Ireland and pays Irish taxes, feel free to put them up.
The days of Ireland being a poor country are over, Ireland is no more poor than the UK or any other western European country. (Especially now most of those countries now don’t have those profits booked in them)
Our T31s should also be given a basic ASW sonar. Crazy not to.
Agree this would give the RN more scope , think it’s ridicules a major fighting ship with no ASW capability.🙄
Yes it’s ridiculous.
T31s should not have been built.
Yes they should as they are needed for the overseas presence mission
Never build a warship that you would not want to go to war in.
Overseas presence doesn’t mean anything if it’s not credible in a fight.
A T31 with FC/ASW is a very credible surface combatant. As an outer escort to a CSG that includes Astute and T26 it makes an adequate (no more) AA asset with quad packs and a powerful ASuW one, as noisy Chinese subs are hardly a risk. No one will send them near Russia, it would be a waste of time and they would take over other deployments
The alternative 2015 plan was hideous. We were to have 10 Type 26s. Given the speed of build sanctioned by Dave and George, we would have have dropped to 6 frigates for years, even assuming no delays, eventually climbing back up to ten around 2044.
No wonder the Navy said no and cut two T26s in favour of 5 T31s.
For all the thanks we get?
How long before a nationalist conspiracy theorist claims that the submarine never existed and it was just a ruse for the evil British to snoop around in Irish waters?
Ah well, maybe when the Shinners form the next government they’ll provide an instant boost to Defence by digging up several arms dumps to be distributed amongst the “people’s army”
Unfortunately, due to Tory defence cuts, UK forces are inadequate to defend its own territory and airspace.
Has anyone asked the people of Ulster for their views on losing NATO protection i the event of unifi ation?
You mean the people of NI not Ulster, and most likely not.
The Irish (and I speak as an Englishman with a late Irish father and grandparents) need to get their asses in gear. No more freeloading off the UK. They bang on about their neutrality but have no way of defending it should push ever come to shove. Totally shameless,
What they say is utterly irrelevant