Britain’s retired fleet of Sentinel aircraft was sold to the U.S. last year, one of the type has now been spotted in Arizona.
A former RAF Sentinel R.1 jet was spotted at Tucson airport, Arizona (🇺🇸).
The United Kingdom (🇬🇧) has sold its retired fleet of Sentinel jets, which were used to provide wide-area battlefield surveillance and target acquisition, to the U.S. last year.
📸: @ air.superior on IG pic.twitter.com/jun9SqqQdv
— Bizjets of War (@bizjetsofwar) June 14, 2022
It has been public knowledge for some time that The Ministry of Defence has accepted a joint bid from Raytheon USA/Bombardier. This involves making the aircraft flyable again to go over to the States. The rumoured end customer is the U.S. Army.
It is understood that much of the systems had already been stripped out in preparation for scrapping. The move was somewhat controversial as the Ministry of Defence previously advise that the aircraft were to be sold for scrap and “not for reuse”. According to the Ministry of Defence in the notice of a potential sale last year:
“The Defence Equipment Sales Authority (DESA) is inviting expressions of interest from Companies interested in being considered for receiving an Invitation to Tender (ITT) in respect of the proposed sale of the aircraft for stripping so to harvest all reusable parts for potential resale, recycling or disposal and final dismantling and removal of the remaining platforms. Note these aircraft are not for reuse.“
It would seem the Ministry of Defence has changed its mind on that last point.
What did Sentinel do?
The aircraft, described on the Royal Air Force website as “the most advanced long-range, airborne-surveillance system of its kind in the world”, provided the British armed forces with long-range, wide-area battlefield surveillance, delivering intelligence and target tracking information. The aircraft had been operationally deployed in support of operations in Afghanistan, Libya and Mali, and was deployed in support of British and Coalition operations in Iraq and Syria.
The Sentinel R1 fleet was a key C4ISTAR asset for the British armed forces. Operated by the Royal Air Force’s No5 Army Cooperation Sqn, the Airborne Stand-off Radar system incorporates linked ground components with the aircraft’s powerful active electronically-scanned array surveillance radar, the system included a moving target indicator and was capable of generating synthetic aperture radar imagery, for what the Royal Air Force called “unparalleled situational awareness”.
The imagery is then passed by secure data links to ground stations at all levels of command and control. By operating at high altitudes, and at considerable longrange stand-off distances, the radar platform is able to remain over safe territory while providing an excellent ‘look-down angle’ of the target area.
Why was Sentinel retired?
Officially, the aircraft was scrapped “due to obsolescence” with the Ministry of Defence claiming that the aircraft was “now increasingly obsolescent and will face increasing reliability issues as time progresses”. It was becoming obsolete because the money wasn’t spent to upgrade it.
Jeremy Quin, Minister for Defence Procurement at the Ministry of Defence, even stated that Sentinel was introduced in 2008 in the knowledge that a significant equipment upgrade would be required in the mid-2010s.
“Sentinel was introduced in 2008 in the knowledge that a significant equipment upgrade would be required in the mid-2010s. The Defence Review in 2010 cancelled this expected upgrade bringing forward the likely out of service date. The SDSR 2015 determined that Sentinel should be retained for a further period and set a new out of service date of March 2021. While some work was conducted on the on-board equipment this fell well short of a full system upgrade. The radar and mission system are now increasingly obsolescent and will face increasing reliability issues as time progresses. Retaining the capability would have required significant upgrade expenditure.“
The UK however never found that money, never upgrading Sentinel.
Defence Analyst Howard Wheeldon was quoted here saying that the Ministry of Defence should have found the cash for the modernisation of the jet.
“That Sentinel required capability upgrading should not have been the reason for its premature withdrawal. ISTAR remains one, if not the most important, element of air power capability and taking a [capability] gap is unacceptable. The decision to scrap Sentinel capability is not only one of the worst that emerged out of SDSR 2015 but it is also the one that I believe the U.K. will most likely come to regret. The lack of such important capability, and with no imminent replacement in prospect, is dangerous and ill advised.”
What will the U.S. use it for?
That’s currently unknown but the aircraft is almost identical to the concept imagery used to depict the replacement for the E-8 JSTARS replacement.
However, during the 2019 U.S. budget rollout, it was announced that the U.S. Air Force will not move forward with an E-8C replacement aircraft. Funding for the JSTARS recapitalisation program was instead diverted to pay for the development of an advanced battle management system comprising a network of sensors linked to a ground-based command and control system.
Got to love the MOD and their penchant for selling off anything and everything they can.
The story I like from ‘back in the day’ was that MoD sold off all the Saracen APCs and the Humber ‘Pig’ APCs to Belgium when FV432 came in – then had to buy many of them back a few years later for IS duties in Northern Ireland.
I am sure the Belgians made some money out of the MoD.
Meanwhile Moscow not only improves its older kit, it keeps them in service: (will delete after 7 days)
https://i.postimg.cc/SKHmnGqd/img260.jpg
Part 2:
https://i.postimg.cc/BZTJvDz5/img262.jpg
Part 3:
https://i.postimg.cc/Bn63NznN/img263.jpg
Part 4:
https://i.postimg.cc/bJQfscmY/img264.jpg
Part 5:
https://i.postimg.cc/K8V6fvVv/img265.jpg
Part 6:
https://i.postimg.cc/fb96rQn7/img266.jpg
Wouldn’t brag about Russian air defence, according to the article it’s pretty rubbish and the have lost 285 of 815 air assets in the first 100 days. At this rate Russia will have no airforce by the end of the year and be ripe for invasion by Ireland!
To be fair I’m not even sure the Irish defence force could invade Ireland, it’s designed that way, the Irish have a natural aversion to armies, due to the fact we were really really horrible to them for a really long time ( awful neighbourhoods are us).
Ah, its only one of 3 articles I scanned over the weekend regards Moscows EW/snooping caperbilities, I simply dont wish to kick the arse out of things by posting them all at once, i’ll give it a week and allow the others to delete
issue being if Russian kit was any good at snooping, they wouldn’t be fighting street to street and long-range bombing
Not sure if this article is meant to be intentionally mis-leading, however, it does not mention that there are now a number of assets in service with overlapping capabilities, if not superior capabilities and non of these are mentioned, some manned and some unmanned. The world of technology does not stand still and this pinning for legacy assets is not helpful.
Hi Okams. I’m one of those I’m afraid. Which assets are they, specifically, with the SAR for ground surveillance? Protector? Is not yet in service, replaces Reaper which served alongside Sentinel. Poseidon? Does it even have the Pod with the SAR yet? F35 I know has a good radar/ EW fit but again hardly a replacement. I appreciate that tech moves on but this will always be a cut for me. Like the discarding of the Defender / Islander fleet because we have Shadow, it puts the role onto fewer assets that may be needed elsewhere. The same applies to… Read more »
DM, so we have;
RC-135 x3
Protector x16
P-8 Poseidon x9
F-35B
Access to low earth satelites
Some of these were in service with Sentinel, some not. However, all are far superior to the products of 20 years ago, both in range, fidelity and discrimination. So to moan and wail everytime a “legacy” product is discontinued is silly, some on this blog would still have us flying Spitfires,
Spitfire…..I think we should have kept the DH 2s just incase.
Nah….Hawker hurricanes much more stealthy with their plywood construction….
Woeful lack of knowledge. RC-135? Different sensors for a different role. Protector? We don’t have it yet and when we do it won’t have a Wide Area GMTI sensor. P-8? We haven’t bought the sensor (which is very expensive) and there aren’t enough of them – they’ll be carrying out their ‘day jobs’. F-35? Really? To carry out Wide Area GMTI? Your list of platforms (where they exist) are not “superior in range, fidelity and discrimination,” so those who are moaning and wailing are not doing it because a legacy product is being discontinued, it’s because they understand what capability… Read more »
Doug, sorry to say this, and no disrespect meant, but your reply sounds silly. You are saying that nothing that we have or are getting in the near future compares to a twenty year old electronics platform, really? I might not have the knowledge of DavyB with regard to military platforms, but I am pretty up to date with electronic tech in general and 20 years in tech is like the Stone Age.
None of those air breathers have the large area SAR capabilities. They can only do relatively ‘spot’ SAR. Sentinal could hover up many many sqkm’s.
There is that, but the fact remains the British MOD has a terrible habit of purchasing the most expensive system going, then skimp by not upgrading it resulting in degraded performance resulting in been dragged screaming to do something but more usually binning it or selling it off with its replacement not coming into IOC until years later: Challenger SA80 E3 Puma Warrior AS90 Harrier DMS boots Bowman Phoenix Watchkeeper Sentinel Just look at the debarkle of the 401 Iveco LMV the Uk purchased between 2006 and 2009. , decided in 2016 that they would purchase the L-ATV sold off all… Read more »
Iveco LMV is still in service as the Panther Command and Liaison vehicle with something like 400 still in the inventory.
I’ve read recently that the MoD has now decided against it’s purchase of the L-ATV with no other option in sight currently.
It’s sad really considering the L-ATV was supposed to replace a number of vehicles that are in desperate need of replacement.
Except while the LATV is amazing its hugely expensive. If you look at the woeful state of our land based military the MOD have decided the current russian situation means the cash is better spent on Boxer. Boxer hopefully with more lethality, Ajax (or replacement) Artillery. I think we all agree the cupboard is bare and the cash is urgently needed elsewhere.
Unfortunately even the USA realises platforms are hugely more capable but also more expensive meaning we will all get less of them, its not just us.
You could argue though that replacing a fleet of ageing and not fit for purpose vehicles has a cost saving anyway.
The woeful state of our land forces would be laid bare if a peer on peer war was to happen.
Yes, in the world of electronics 20 years is a very, very long time. Things are moving a lot faster than they used to as well: as so much more is software enabled. I do very much agree that a lot of the legacy assets need to be retired, gracefully, to keep a laser focus on spending money/resource on the really good stuff. Otherwise we will just mirror Mad Vlad’s scrap heap challenge and we can all see how good the Russian tech is compared to our mid tech weapons…….it is worth bearing in mind that the Russian have not… Read more »
Issue with Sentinel was that it was worked very hard by the RAF and the allies and was basically designed for a certain type of terrain. the kit didn’t need upgrading as it worked, maybe a bit slower than liked, the main Issue was the airframe and spars and future Maintenace costs RAF didn’t see this as a worthwhile expense. so, remove the kits and there are some sizable holes in that Airframe, so they were seen as no one would buy then, in a striped-out form. then along comes the airframe manufacture who has just signed a fat development… Read more »
Interesting perspective.
It was well known when Sentinel was acquired that it would need a significant upgrade 5 years in. MoD then dropped the funding for it in 2015.
As I say MOD stands for Moscow On Duty. Who need Putin when you have such crass idiots as we have at the MOD? Imagine if you will, flogging off your prime battlefield surveillance platform at a prewar stage as we have now. Unbelievable!
Just like the Harriers all the way to the good old USA ,really MOD 😕
Serious question on Harriers, governments dont have the power to ground a airframe.
that power would land with the Manufacture as in BAEs,
there is a lot of Asbestos in all UK Harriers, and has to be managed
Johan,
The MoD has grounded fleets (aircraft, vehicles (Ajax!)), many times in the past following a major accident or incident.
Can find money though for useless ppe and track and trace.
Yawn
But it’s true. The stories I can tell you about PPE.
I am sure tens of billions of pounds wasted is just a yawn.
And much has shown how reliant on others for this stuff. Pray we are never reliant on others for say, warships.
sourcing a supply chain for PPE in a pandemic, when every other country was doing the same.
you dont pop to Homebase for a box of masks and gloves, and say, how much loo roll did you panic buy.
easy to point and blame, but what did you do to help.???
Exactly 👍🏻
👍
The options were to give the money to the NHS that had decades of experience in sourcing medical equipment and in-depth match contacts and knowledge or giving it to Tory donors that had set up new companies with no experience to buy from middle men. Hmm yep no blame to be had, best approach taken.
I did not panic at all! Unlike many! I will not judge though.
I got no bloody reply! Did every country get the same reply!? I was not a cunt in this time!
Is that the from the MOD budget? Did the MOD get there budget cut to pay for track and trace and PPE?
Totally pointless irrelevant post to the topic at hand.
“The UK however never found that money, never upgrading Sentinel”. The UK, ok? Everything is relevant. The MoD gets it’s budget from where?
Not from You,
That makes no point.
If there was no pandemic sentinel would still of been scrapped. My comment was just pointing that out. Defence spending in the U.K. is already large on the world scale and it’s not a top priority for the Tory government spending plan.
Fair point, but government expenditure is not exactly 100% transparent, so who really knows what money had to be used for other purposes to free up immediate cash.
The point here is to point out the wasted money on shit, then any gov will spunk out value for the tax payer on real good products like Fleet Solid Support Shjps! All can be calculated. And give the contract away!
The problem here is that the MOD has come out with a load of all tosh and the US has proved it. One of the lessons of Ukraine, I wonder what use they would be to them right now by the way, is that numbers matter. Russians forces demoralised yet because they have a lot of overlapping capabilities, mainly outdated, they continue to make slow progress. The UK Chancellor putting cost before security. I believe after cuts to the MOD after 2008 crash the MOD under spent by £500m. Why was this not spent on sentinel ? Instead our Head… Read more »
STC wrote: I believe after cuts to the MOD after 2008 crash the MOD under spent by £500m. Why was this not spent on sentinel ? Instead our Head in the sand politicians made the MOD return it. God help us cos if the yanks don’t were finished ! We were always allocated a set budget, anything that wasn’t spent in that financial year, saw that figure taken off the next years budget. How stupid is that, its like how soldiers who had gone overdrawn (a large number due to no fault of their own, but rather through f- ups by… Read more »
We are finished any way. We have a government unable to deport any economic migrant without race being thrown about, despite being a modern democratic nation that half the world seemingly want to move to, a world that itself has borders and has the right to control them. But not us. And one part of the UK is unable to trade openly with another part due to the protocol. Daring to change it brings the remoaner brigade in politics and media out in force backing the EU to the hilt, without any mention whatsoever of what those minor changes actually… Read more »
Thank the lord there is someone else out there👍
There are lots of us. I’m silent most of the time on UKDJ now and I’m off topic too so apologies.
Different story 6 or 7 years ago on here with aftermath of the B word, I’d go toe to toe with the best of them.
Agreed!
Were really not Daniele, the world is heading for a total epic disaster, but the U.K. will be fine…..baring nuclear war, catastrophic feedback loops releasing all the frozen methane ( turning the world to Venus mark2), artificial intelligences reach singularity ( and exterminate us as vermin), Sars-cov 2 developing the Same case mortality rate as Sars-cov 1 or some other plague, an invasion by a more advanced alien species ( se AI singularity for effect), a massive solar flare killing everything, a nearby star going super nova killing everything in a 10 parsec radius), the destruction of the Y chromosome… Read more »
Alien invasion? I wouldn’t rule it out, and I’ve seen the film too! I think beaming our location out into the ether was a stupid and nieve move myself.
Hi DM
I don’t believe Aliens would waste their resources invading Earth. I’m of the view that humans are the standing galactic species joke.
I’m convinced Alien studies of our planet are actually low cost alien vacations to come and gloat at the stupid humans, in the same way we do on Safari or at Zoos!
Quite possibly mate. But do I believe they’re out there, yep, sorry, I do. Wrong forum though!
All good Mate ! I have yet to see one.
You forgot the dolphins leaving Earth😂
Thanks for all the fish
Imagine all needing to migrate to Africa and when you get there they send you to a Belarus migrant camp calling it a safe third country😂😂😂😂😂😂
The protocol this government agreed to so why should the EU budge? We made our bed time to lie in it unfortunately.
Ah, “this government agreed” That would be because the lovely opposition parties and many also within the Tory party would not accept any Brexit save one that had a “deal” that their EU masters would accept and spent between 2016 and 2019 sabotaging, blocking, obstructing, and foot dragging every damned move the government made despite many of their own damned constituents voting for leave. Remember? It was all about stopping a “hard Brexit ” or no deal Brexit. Well to get there we got a deal, and parts of it are fine by me, other parts not so. This deal… Read more »
which part of Europe is Northern Island IN. and the issue is goods passing from Northern to Ireland. so close that border, or will that stop the free trade from Ireland of Frozen Vietnamese. N Ireland population of Slough.
Put the border where it is. Across Ireland. That’s what the madness is. Panicking about upsetting Ireland peace process. We knew that would have to happen.
Blame your liberal friends.
+1 from me. Personally the UK should withdraw from the Refugee Convention. Create its own rules on asylum and then act as a transit state. And send the said asylum seekers on to the Republic of Ireland. It would be so poetic as this is what the EU ( via Schengen) is currently doing to the UK!
Most are economic migrants, there is a difference. But according to the usual suspects all are refugees fleeing across Europe to get to one spot. The fact oft pointed out that many more apply elsewhere in Europe like in Germany is totally irrelevant. I concede that now being out of the EU the Dublin agreement doesn’t apply and that is a problem. The BIGGEST problem is the industry of left wing HR lawyers making sure every procedure is delayed or blocked, paid for by the taxpayer. The smugglers know this. The key word here is ILLEGAL. I’d LOVE to get… Read more »
The darkest hour is just before the dawn?
An economic migrant that brings no benefits should be able to be deported. A genuine asylum seeker should not if they have followed the international asylum seeker law that the U.K. is part of. The protocol the torrid brought on themselves. The signed the stupid thing. They shouldn’t of agreed it. Madness. We all knew leaving the EU would be messy. The border is between U.K. and EU territory. It’s in place at other locations in the U.K and works ok. it’s just nobody wants to say we need a border between northern and Southern Ireland. The eu don’t have… Read more »
Sorry Farouk, but that’s rubbish. Nowhere in the delegated authority to an OC or under AGAI 67 can a soldier be fined for being overdrawn. The only reason that can happen is if they ‘bounce a cheque’ in old money. The only thing an OC can do is put a soldier on a debt recovery plan where the admin system helps them consolidate and pay off their debt. You’re literally not allowed to punish a soldier for having debt. An officer however, can be in trouble for being in debt.
US wants their radars for spare parts.
What I wouldn’t give for the government to just scrap the MOD and replace it with an independent committee of experienced RAF/BA/RN officials to oversee military spending policy and build a respectable British military, including the power to cancel contracts early if it looks like the result will be some utter clusterf*** like Ajax.
For far too long, inconsistency between what different defence secretaries want is damaging the forces, with one branch often receiving increased investment at the expense of another.
Civilian oversight of the armed forces is essential.
Uh, yes, which is whole point of the defence secretary.
I don’t think that would work very well. The MOD actually performs better than other government departments in a number of areas. Defence projects are a risky business. Sometimes it just doesn’t work out. Being able to cancel at the right time is a hard call. As with Ajax the manufacturer will still be stating it meets the contract requirements and they can fix any areas it doesn’t. I wouldn’t have much faith in some high up service boys knowledge of running departments and procurement more than what the MOD do currently. Look at all the fantastic projects that come… Read more »
Agreed. We might like to recall some of our leading businesses have made serious cock-ups and sold themselves cheap or broken up to get out of trouble Other countries make mistakes also. Banks and defence companies – both ‘too big to fail’.
Some one else here suggested getting rid of MoD.
He couldn’t answer me when I asked what happens to the dozens and dozens of non all military but still defence related organisations that the MoD control.
I agree with the rest of your points but scrapping MoD is a different kettle of fish to introducing oversight and procurement reforms.
Okay. What I had in mind wasn’t so much as “getting rid of the MOD” as at least reforming the decision-making processes so that it is inner-department body of people with actual military experience and knowledge of the military determining how defence spending is spent rather then a defence secretary who has one vision but could be replaced months later with somebody with a completely different vision. I seriously doubt somebody in British Army would have advocated for only 150 or so Challenger 3 tanks.
Exactly, and I agree with you.
Maybe the House of Lords should do part budget spending. To join the board they have to be under 55 and the role is for 20 years. Say 6 of them. 2 from each services that stay for 10 years, that’s another 6. And the defence secretary.
13 members and they can be help to account. Or if you want industry make it 15,17,19 members. I don’t include MPs as they are changing all the time
Reported the Quantum Computer the MOD bought is to be trialled in a tank for quantum communications and data processing. The one theyve bought isnt particularly powerful but critically its the first that is compact and can operate at room temperature.
https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/06/15/uk-quantum-computers-tanks/
Completely off topic and minutes old (15/2112/06/22) Press release Joint statement by UK MOD, US DOD, and German Defence MinistryThe United States, United Kingdom, and Germany are deeply committed to supporting Ukraine as it defends itself against Russia’s unprovoked invasion. Russia has shifted its focus to the Donbas region, where it is engaging in a systematic long-range rocket and artillery barrage against defensive Ukrainian military positions and civilian infrastructure alike. To help Ukraine defend its citizens and sovereign territory, the United States, United Kingdom, and Germany have committed to provide Multiple Launch Rocket Systems (MLRS) with Guided MLRS (GMLRS) rockets. Ukraine… Read more »
They better hurry, the purported losses incurred by the Ukrainians are horrific if true 200-500 Kia, total up to a thousand casualties a day.
https://www.axios.com/2022/06/15/ukraine-1000-casualties-day-donbas-arakhamia
Just one small problem here…….what we are providing is a drop in the ocean…..the Ukrainians have been at the mercy of Russian long range artillery for weeks and need long range MLRS in sufficient numbers to actually make a difference!!! But we, the US and other countries have been shamefully slow in providing any such capability and now it seems too late..
There is that, but if used tactically at extreme range and with targeting confirmed by the likes of the US via their overhead Sats regards prime targets all it will take is one missile , Collectively that would soon add up add a bit of luck and Moscow will find out the hardway that pay back is a female canine.
Can US give some to Ukraine? Would they even help?
There isn’t any point in gifting systems to Ukraine that they cannot use or maintain. Their current needs are relatively basic, long range artillery and ammo. If they can get enough of that it will change the course of the war, but they need it pronto.
George wrote “By operating at high altitudes, and at considerable long range stand-off distances, the radar platform is able to remain over safe territory while providing an excellent ‘look-down angle’ of the target area.” Its worth examining this statement in the context of what a peer like Russia might use to counter the capability. The Sentinel has a max operating altitude of 15,000m according to the RAF. The missiles used by an S-400 battery have operating ranges up to a claimed 400km, but to be conservative let’s assume just 100km. That combination of altitude and 100km range means the Sentinel… Read more »
The mystery deepens …
I am getting on in years but oh, dear, isn’t she beautiful in some strange way?
Interesting news:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-statement-by-uk-mod-us-dod-and-german-defence-ministry
Apparently the Germans are set to also long range artillery. Of course that is assuming the Germans don’t end up dragging their feet again.
Oh! And it seems WatchKeeper is proving to be a costly expense.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18901996/army-drone-sea-failure/
Crashes happen.
For me the issues are:
It is unarmed.
It’s cost vs other systems.
The difficulty training enough people to operate the system, we’re supposed to have 3 or 4 batteries worth operational with 47 RA. Unsure of current status but I last heard only 1 battery was available, thus many stored.
It was originally envisaged that SPTA would be used for flying, including a dedicated area south of the plain, with flying from Boscombe and Upavon.
This was moved to Akroriri and I believe Ascension previously as the weather is better.
How are we filling the capability gap? Asking NATO to fill the gap?
Senior officers only seem to consider their own service and the MOD civil servant only look at budgets. Overall capabilities and cost effectiveness needs to be the driving force, re the Nimrod MK 4 , Harrier Force, Sentinal Mk 1 and now the Medium Helicopter replacement programme. It needs some one who has no vested interest and the wisdom to make decent decisions.
Maybe when it was introduced it was the most advanced but not anymore. The bolt on radar, Advanced Airborne Sensor used by some P-3s and now some P-8s is more advanced that the old Raytheon radar used in the Sentinel. Also the Global Hawk’s new radar, the MP-RTIP is also more capable.