Three Russians and one Ukranian will face murder charges for the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 nearly five years ago.
The following is the statement:
“I welcome today’s announcement by the Joint Investigation Team that four suspects will be prosecuted for crimes in relation to the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in July 2014.
This is an important milestone in the efforts to uncover the full truth and ensure that justice is done for the killing of 298 people from 17 countries.
I have full confidence in the independence and professionalism of the investigation and the Dutch legal system. As the United Nations Security Council has made clear, all countries should cooperate with efforts to establish truth, justice and accountability.”
Two hundred and ninety-eight people were killed when the plane was shot down by a missile in July 2014.
Apparently the Malaysian Prime Minister had things to say about all of this.
https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2019/06/21/malaysia-prime-minister-decries-charges-in-mh17-downing/
I see Malaysia’s licking Russia’s hoop!
One of Malaysias biggest exports is palm oil. Most of the world is moving away from this product due to its massive adverse impact on the environment. However Russia recently committed to purchasing vast amounts of the stuff from Malaysia… It is no wonder their PM is suddenly not wanting to anger Putin…
Lee, that announcement also got me thinking why, a quick dig and I found the following:
1) On the 15th March 2016, a Russian-Malaysian business council was established with the intent to strengthen cooperation on economic, scientific, technological issues and culture.
2) On the 20th May 2016 a bilateral meetingbetween Malaysian Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak and Russian President Putin explored the possibility of negotiating for a free trade agreement (FTA) between Malaysia with the Eurasian Economic Union (EAEU) in which Russia was among the leading countries. They also looked at direct flights between Malaysia and Russia as well as Russia supplying Malaysia with weapons
3) On the 22nd of Feb 2018 Russia opened its second Russian Centre of Science and Culture (RCSC) branch office in the country, the first was opened in 1981.
Funny enough trade between the two countries has also risen in 2012 it was $1.769 billion , by 2016 it had risen to $2.19 billion in 2016.
4) When Prime Minister (PM) Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad met with President Putin last November they they discussed how there had been significant increase in bilateral trade of over 60% in the last eight months.
I do remember seeing the video of the “Russian” tracked SA11 Gainful/SA17 Grizzly covered in a tarpaulin leaving on the back of a transporter from Ukraine to Russia. I am amazed that they actually could pin names to incident. It won’t do any good, as its like those two GRU agents who’ve been identified for the Salisbury Novochok incident, they’re all in Russia and never likely to leave.
True, but just another nail in the reputation of the the gangster state that is Russia today.
Must have been absolutely terrifying on that plane! Most folk were still alive falling to the ground!
Mate. I didn’t want to be reminded of the details…
When does the independent tribunal start and a case opened for Iran Air flight 655 which was shot down by USS Vincennes in 1988, and press murder charges against ex Captain Will Rogers 111, and other members of the crew who fired missiles that day, causing the death of 290 people including 66 children.
At least the US had the decency and the balls to admit downing air flight 655
And paid the families of the dead. Did Putin give the families of the MH17 any rubles???
Not enough rubles in the kitty to give to victims ,Putins regime gets the priority.
What’s your evidence Dave that Russia downed MH17?
You know what the evidence is comrade sole ,but it would be wasted on you as with the evidence on novichoks incident with your waky conspiracy theory, You like bringing up arguments against wrong doings of the british in the past along with your leftist views (some I agree with) but any thing to do with Putins regime you go extreme Right and try to defend Russia ,a regime that promotes anti gay groups and pisses on its poor, it is a very strange view.
I despise Putins politics and despise Russian oligarchs and the influence they have. I call out what they did as the Soviet Union and call out laws they pass I don’t agree with, I call out their human rights record.
But the Ukraine situation is completely different, I think it’s NATO aggression and expansion that is the root cause of all this, I think the US military industrial machine plays a tune to US policy in Europe and NATO expansion (more US Dollar purchases of their equipment) and that has intensified since failing in their regime change attempt in Syria (because of Russia) and then Trump coming in so the demonisation of Russia has intensified even more because the US establishment don’t want Trump, so they need a bogeyman to tie him to, and his past links and words on Russia give them just enough to keep going and going.
The mainstream media has no credibility when it comes to geopolitics Dave so it’s hard to go along blindly to what they report, they just repeat what the governments of the day tell them without any scrutiny, remember our biggest selling tabloid put the faces of the MP’s who voted against the Iraq war on a dartboard on the front page instead of investigating the evidence. And if all the other journalists I read and independent investigators said the same, and there was absolute concrete indisputable proof it was Russia behind MH17 then I would join you in the condemnation.
Well I agree with most of your comment apart from the invasion of the Ukraine by Russia,which is no excuse how ever hard the EU pushed for influence of the ukraine and also mainstream media having no credibility, that just feeds Russian news outlets like RT which is just Putins mouthpiece and has no credibility what so ever.
SS wrote:
But the Ukraine situation is completely different, I think it’s NATO aggression and expansion that is the root cause of all this,
The last hat i wore was officer recruiting , our civy candidates would tip up and we would test them on various subjects, one of which was their grasp of current affairs. One of the questions we would ask them to write about was..the Ukraine As a member of the DS , I had to know more about the subject than they did, so I did. In a nutshell Poland and the Ukraine became independent within 2 years of each other in 1990 the Ukraine had a GDP larger than Poland (but only by 15 billion $) In 2004 Poland joined the EU and by 2014 its GDP was $545 billion, the Ukraine which had remained tied to Russia had a GDP of $133 Billion.
The Ukrainians wanted what their neighbours next door in Poland had and they voted for closer links with the EU simply to better their way of life. However President Yanukovych rejected the pending EU association agreement, choosing instead to pursue a Russian loan bailout and closer ties with Russia. (The same Russia which had for years been cutting off the gas tap, in the middle of winter and then increasing the price in which to turn the taps back on.)
That realignment back to mother Russia didn’t go down well with the plebs and they removed him from office during the Orange Revolution
In other words, you should be looking at the EU and not NATO
Well said!!!
So you’re an expert on Ukrainian current affairs, Farouk Viktor Yanukovych was removed during the Euromaidan clashes, which was in 2014. The Orange revolution was 10 years before that in 2004.
“I had to know more about the subject than they did, so I did”
Yep.
SS wrote:
When does the independent tribunal start and a case opened for Iran Air flight 655 which was shot down by USS Vincennes in 1988,
The United States and Iran reached a settlement at the International Court of Justice which included the statement “…the United States recognized the aerial incident of 3 July 1988 as a terrible human tragedy and expressed deep regret over the loss of lives caused by the incident. It agreed to pay US$61.8 million on an ex gratia basis, amounting to $213,103.45 per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims.
That issue is closed.
Yeah Farouk when you were copying and pasting from Wikipedia mate you conveniently missed out
“As part of the settlement, even though the U.S. government did not admit legal liability or formally apologize to Iran”
And further down the article
“The U.S. government issued notes of regret for the loss of human lives, but never formally apologized or acknowledged wrongdoing”
And paying someone off in a settlement is not justice, yes the issue is closed, but if Russia did the same as the US, “issued deep regret about the loss of life” not admitting guilt and offered to pay compo to the families of MH17 you think that would be accepted and be the end of it? Come on ffs
The payment of damages closed the incident , just like it did when Libya paid for lockabie and the UTA DC-10 blown up over Niger’s Tenere desert in 1989.
Accept people were jailed for life for Lockerbie.
So Farouk if Libya just paid compensation and accepted responsibility at the start, do you think we should of dropped the investigation and never charged the bombers? Because the payment of damages “closed the incident”
SS wrote
So Farouk if Libya just paid compensation and accepted responsibility at the start, do you think we should of dropped the investigation and never charged the bombers?
Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi was found guilty in 2001. Libya offered to pay compensation in 2002 on certain conditions
40% of the money would be released when United Nations sanctions, suspended in 1999, were cancelled;
Another 40% when US trade sanctions were lifted;
The final 20% when the US State Department removed Libya from its list of states sponsoring terrorism.
They paid 80% of the total by 2004 as the last demand wasn’t met by the time frame the Libyans had set. The final 20% was paid by Libya in 2007 along with a sum to compensate the bombing of the Berlin disco in 1986.
You have not answered my question Farouk
there are some parallels between these incidents – but also some major points of difference. USS Vincennes querried that Iranian airliner numerous times and received no response; the Captain thereby had reasonable grounds to worry his ship and its crew were at risk. Not quite the same as the Russians shot first and never asked questions – nor their overlords who thought nothing wrong of arming undisciplined rebels and setting them loose with something capable of engaging aircraft at high altitude (noting of course that when the US supplied TOW missiles to Syrian Rebels back in 2015/2016, and explicitly avoided giving them Stingers – it was deliberately to avoid giving them the capability to engage Russian aircraft and thereby escalate a war. Not completely equivalent – but again, at least the US exercised some caution and restraint when Russia did not). Whilst we are at this hackneyed old argument though I wonder when Iran will ever apologise for the 600 US servicemen it killed in Iraq and AF, by supplying shaped charges and IEDs to its proxies it had meddling and destabilising things over there? It’s hard to feel sorry for the Iranians, especially lately. And it transpires that President Trump has a much higher regard and respect for Iranian lives, than Iran does for anybody else.
The US gave many warnings to the aircraft. The crew did not respond.
The day that happens the US will bomb the tribunal. See American Service-Members’ Protection Act (ASPA) occasionally called the “Hague Invasion Act” or “Bomb The Hague Act”. What it amounts to is a conditional declaration of war against any International Court or Independent Tribunal that attempts to prosecute members of the United States Military or Government.
Let’s walk down memory lane for a moment. By July of 1988 in the year preceding the incident the Stark had been hit with a Exocet by Iraqis, the Roberts had hit a Iranian mine, the USN had repeatedly had shooting incidents with Iranian gunboats and had just conducted Operation Praying Mantis. Under those circumstances if CIC told you that there was a probable F-14 readying for a attack run that was not responding to any radio transmissions on both Military and Civilian frequencies while you were already engaged in pursuing gunboats that had fired on one of your helicopters. As the Captain of a CG charged with not only your ship but two others you would have fired. That was the ruling of the USN board of inquiry and that is the only ruling anyone is ever going to get.
The US already paid Iran a settlement for the incident. Which was more than Iran ever should have received considering their 1980s habits of embassy bombing and hostage taking.
?
Put the glue away Elliott
Read the Law and the statements of the Defense and State Departments after it’s passage (by near unanimous vote in Congress). American military personnel are answerable to only the UCMJ and only before US military court for any act committed on duty. The only people eating glue are the ones who think that nuclear powers like either the US, Russia, or even China will ever subordinate their military and legal systems to the ICC. Only countries lacking any semblance of a backbone would.
I don’t need to because i know all that
The glue comment was because you think the US would bomb the Netherlands, it’s a symbolic act and the use of force would never be used. Everyone knows that.
‘The day that happens the US will bomb the tribunal.’
That is an utterly disgraceful assertion. How many years has the world had to listen to US criticisms of imperialism; especially the British. Only to be confronted with the super-arrogance of American exceptionalism. You are contemptable!
I must admit I was hoping he went into more juicy detail of the “bomb The Hague” operation, what aircraft the US would use, where they would come from, or would they just launch a load of cruise missiles at it, or would they even launch an amphibious operation and flatten the tulips on the way.
Fascinating stuff
It is, at best, astonishingly ignorant! How embarrassed must many decent Americans be at that sort of ‘hill-billy’ response to serious issues of international law?
“They are accusing Russia, but where is the evidence? We know the missile that brought down the plane is a Russian type missile, but it could also be made in Ukraine.”
“You need strong evidence to show it was fired by the Russians; it could be by the rebels in Ukraine, it could be Ukrainian government because they too have the same missile.”
“We may not have the expertise but we can buy the expertise. For some reasons, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened.”
“We don’t know why we are excluded from the examination but from the very beginning, we see too much politics in it, and the idea was not to find out how this happened, but seems to be concentrated on trying to pin it to the Russians.“
From the Malaysian PM, fair comments, and i see the BBC actually covered his comments, surprisingly, but then shamefully added talk of Malaysia agreeing trade deals with Russia at the end, it is strange they do not mention US arms sales to Ukraine, or political support to the Ukraine, Aid, military support and training from us etc ect at the end of the articles blaming the Russians.
My feeling on this was pointed out on here long ago regarding MH17 and it’s “investigation” it is a kangaroo court plain and simple.
Here is a great comment from Alaff on Off-Guardian, it points out more or less everything, and a lot of it I have been saying on here for years.
The direct responsibility of Ukraine for the airspace above the combat zone not closed for civil Aviation was not taken into account, although this is the main reason why it all happened. Unclosed airspace was only briefly mentioned and immediately forgotten.
The testimony of eyewitnesses about the direction from which the missile was launched was ignored.
The wreckage of the downed aircraft remained lying on the site of the crash — apparently, the JIT did not need it.
The records from black boxes for some mysterious reasons still have not been demonstrated to public.
Malaysia was not allowed to decipher the black boxes. For some reason.
The stubborn refusal of Ukraine to provide their primary radar data was considered insignificant.
The primary radar data voluntarily provided by Russia (and unequivocally proving the absence of a missile launch by the Donbass militia) were considered unworthy.
A satellite images, loudly declared by the US and allegedly proving the direction of the launch of the missile by the Donbass militia, five years later are still not made public. However, it took the US just a few hours to show videos and photos after the incident with tankers in the Gulf of Oman.
The sudden and strange “suicide” of one of the key witnesses, the Ukrainian pilot Vladislav Voloshin, did not lead to certain thoughts.
The girl, the airport dispatcher, who directed the course of the plane, and who was strangely missing, was not even taken into account. The girl just quietly dissolved in time and space. No one cares.
A large-scale scientific experiments (repeat, a scientific ones), conducted by Almaz-Antey corporation and unequivocally refuting the JIT version (based on data from Internet) about the direction of the missile’ launch, was ignored. Five years later, these critical data are still stubbornly ignored by the JIT.
International Commission to Investigate the Malaysian Boeing crash in its final report falsified the research results introduced by Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern. And it is Ok.
The declassified data of the Russian Ministry of Defense on BUK’ characteristics (BUK missiles 9M38 and 9M38M1) were ignored. Btw, the data was declassified by Russia voluntarily.
The JIT simply ignored the most important data of the detailed press conference of the Ministry of Defense of Russia, at which the original documents showing the identity of the missile to Ukraine were demonstrated.
At the press conference, the Ministry of Defense of Russia stated the availability of data proving that the video on which the BUK is being transported was falsified. The fake nature of this video was proven by other experts, still 3-4 years ago (see the in-depth analysis here, for example – https://energia.su/mh17/). The JIT just ignored it. The JIT is still building its “conclusions” on this falsified video.
Malaysian Minister of Transport Anthony Loke declared the absence of evidence against Russia and her non-involvement in the incident. The politician was simply ignored.
The Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir bin Mohamad bluntly declared the investigation bias and political order, and also made it clear that he did not believe in Russia’s involvement. The JIT simply ignored the words of the politician.
Regular official statements by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia and other Russian officials on full openness and willingness to cooperate, in readiness to assist in the investigation are simply ignored. Instead, the JIT frankly lies, saying that “Russia refuses to fully cooperate”.
Not even mentioning that the JIT did not consider it necessary to at least come to Russia, clarify some information here, interview experts, possible witnesses, get acquainted with some documents, data, files etc. Though, why all this? Remote investigation based on some photos, videos and records from the Internet is much more reliable, isn’t it?
Now tell me this is a honest, competent, not biased and transparent investigation.
Yep.
By the way, the answer to the 4th question is quite obvious. The press conference was held essentially the day before the next vote on the extension of anti-Russian sanctions. You know, possible doubters should take into account the “guilt of Russia” and vote correctly.
And I don’t know what is worse, the fact that we actually have to pay for the BBC, our biggest news organisation that has not asked or taken into account any of those facts or questions, or the fact the ignorant masses just sit back and accept and believe it.
Thanks for the above Sole.
Fascinating stuff. Will look into it myself.
You’re welcome mate
They are interesting points and a few can be argued against but even then they can’t discredit them totally, like the tragic suicide of the Ukrainian pilot, if you look into that he was accused by someone in the Ukrainian Air Force of admitting to firing an air-to-air missile at the “wrong plane” around the time of MH17, but the guy that accused him defected to Russia not long after! So could of been talking balls and been paid by Russia to say that.
But stuff like that along with the other points just goes to prove my take on it, an airliner was taken out over a war zone, it could of been Ukraine or Ukraine rebels by mistake, or the US or Russia on purpose by proxy for propaganda/international/local support/discredit purposes, neither side will ever admit it, and the conclusive proof for either not side just isn’t there.
SS wrote:
“like the tragic suicide of the Ukrainian pilot, if you look into that he was accused by someone in the Ukrainian Air Force of admitting to firing an air-to-air missile at the “wrong plane” around the time of MH17, “
That is a falsehood promoted by Russia, the problem is the SU25 is not a fighter jet, its a Close Air support aircraft with a ceiling of 5000 metres. MH17 was flying at 10,000 metres. Also the Ukrainian SU25s are not fitted to carry air to air missiles. Once the JIT debunked that Russian allegation, Moscow then started with the it was a Ukrainian Buk missile that did the evil deed. The problem there was JIT was given full access to the Ukrainian military and they accounted for the whereabouts of every Ukrainian Buk missile system.
As for the pilot killing himself, people have killed themselves for smaller lies.
Finally the smoking gun which implicated the Russians was a combination of intercepted phone calls, posts on social media stating they had shot down a Ukrainian plane and the pictures of a Buk missile system on the back of a low loader being transported back to Russia with a missile missing.
You’ve done the same thing you did above Farouk, stop missing out parts of your copy and paste.
I pretty much said it was balls after that and the guy that accused him had defected to Russia.
And those smoking guns have also been debunked many times on here and elsewhere.
Yep good point we the ceiling factor as well.
Dave,
I’m a spotter and the information regards the Ukrainian SU 25 was gleaned from the March 2019 copy of Air-forces monthly (The one with a free RAF tornado poster no less)
(They knocked out an article every other month from Nov 2018 regards the worlds SU 25 fleet
***yep, good point with* the ceiling facter as well.
SS wrote:
For some reasons, Malaysia was not allowed to check the black box to see what happened.” “
Actually not true, I’ve been following this and here is what is written (in English) on the Dutch government website regards this investigation google
Home Topics MH17 incident Achieving justice and establishing the truth
click on the dutch gov site which states:
The criminal investigation
and you will be presented with:
A special team, known as the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), was established to conduct the criminal investigation. The JIT comprises officials from the Dutch Public Prosecution Service and the Dutch police, along with police and criminal justice authorities from Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine.
An official with no expertise is shown findings of the black box, is not really the same as having someone have complete unhindered access to it from the start.
The black box was flown straight to the U.K. wasn’t it and deciphered here.
SS wrote:
An official with no expertise is shown findings of the black box, is not really the same as having someone have complete unhindered access to it from the start.
I’m sorry are you saying the British investigators lied?
FYI
The blackboxes were found by Ukrainian rebels, who handed them over to Malaysian officials, who handed them over to the dutch investigators who handed them over to the British SMEs. All a black box does is record information, nothing was found out of the ordinary in fact the last message recored was:
“Romeo November Delta Malaysian one seven”, acknowledging a flight instruction from air traffic controllers shortened to RND.
No one, as far as i am aware, including Mother Russia, denies that MH17 was shot down by a missile. Therefore i dont think the black box will say much, other than record the instantaneous switch in sensor readings from “all systems normal” to “all systems fooked” when the warhead detonated.
Unless of course, whoever fired the missile decided in a Bond villain kind of way to announce over the radio to the pilots of the aircraft that they were about to be shot down, the manner in which they would be shot down, why they were to be shot down, and who was about to shoot them down, prior to launching the missile, i’m not sure the black boxes will give much away in terms of the who, what, whys of the case.
However, it is on record that Ukrainian rebels did claim on social media to have shot down a Ukrainian military aircraft that same day, prior to the public announcement of the loss of MH17. Then their social media posts were deleted and they denied shooting anything down at all that day. The AP also reported at the time that a senior rebel commander admitted rebels had indeed shot down MH17, having mistaken it for a Ukrainian government forces aircraft.
Unfortunately the internet is making keyboard experts of us all. I am not an air-accident investigator and I don’t think that anyone else has claimed to be so on this HYS. To me the important question is why MAS chose to fly over that part of the Ukraine, when other airlines deemed it too risky? Mistakes happen, especially during conflicts of this nature, where often the left-hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing! The events in Salisbury were a different case entirely. This was a premeditated act of attempted murder. Whether the two suspects carried it out, or whether the Russian government authorised it, we will probably never know. But, the balance of evidence would suggest that the perpetrators have been identified and that it was authorised by someone high up. Yes, of course those in the media are subject to ethnocentric views, but that doesn’t mean that they are wrong. It is healthy to remain sceptical but, as Arthur Balfour maintained, ‘all our beliefs must remain provisional’.