The Gaza-Israel conflict so far – Key events

False claim. They stopped airlines using airport back in 2000. Cant even go to Mecca !

You need to have more information rather than what you think they might do

Dont really agree with your ethnic cleansing ideas , that how Israel began with that as their policy to enlarge the area created by the UN

Iranian Hamas stormed the control crossing that thousands of Arabs used everyday to work or receive medical treatment in Israel. Hamas is Iran’s means to destroy the Jews and fulfil Islamic prophesy. Read the Qu’an.

Duker wrote:
Cant even go to Mecca !
 
Actually that’s not true thousands from Gaza carry out the pilgrimage every Haj. I cite Aljazeera from June 17th this year: 

Four Hajj delegations leave besieged Gaza to Mecca

According to the Ministry of Endowments and Religious Affairs, the pilgrims travelled from Gaza during a four-day span, with 900 pilgrims in the first group, 900 on the second, 600 in the third, and 500 pilgrims on the fourth day.
In final pre-Hajj preparations, Fathia al-Hassanat, 58, from Khan Yunis south of the Gaza Strip, expressed her joy to perform the Hajj after a long wait. “My feeling is indescribable. I had been hoping to perform Hajj for many years. Thank God, my name appeared in this year’s lottery,” said al-Hassanat, sitting next to her children who gathered the night before her travel. At the same time, like other travellers in the Gaza Strip, al-Hassanat does not hide her concern about the difficulty of travelling through the Rafah crossing and the long hours of waiting until arriving at the Cairo airport. In final pre-Hajj preparations, Fathia al-Hassanat, 58, from Khan Yunis south of the Gaza Strip, expressed her joy to perform the Hajj after a long wait. “My feeling is indescribable. I had been hoping to perform Hajj for many years. Thank God, my name appeared in this year’s lottery,” said al-Hassanat, sitting next to her children who gathered the night before her travel.
At the same time, like other travellers in the Gaza Strip, al-Hassanat does not hide her concern about the difficulty of travelling through the Rafah crossing and the long hours of waiting until arriving at the Cairo airport. Ahmed Abu al-Kass, 41, tried to register for Hajj five years ago without success, but this year, his name appeared on the list.“When I received a phone call informing me that my name was accepted for Hajj, I cried out of joy,” Abu al-Kass said. “It was a great moment. I am excited about the spiritual atmosphere in Hajj, and we hope to God that our Hajj will be accepted.”

Oh and regards that lottery, its set by Saudi Arabia , otherwise Mecca wouldn’t be even able to cope with the influx. Which is why I was part of the British army team used to train Saudi Troops and Police in Riot control which we did at tin city Lydd

This years lottery …. for a few hundred out of over 2 mill ?

The difference is the Nagorno-Karabakh region was lightly populated region of ethic Armenians who were welcomed by Armenian and will be easily settled..Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth the are almost 3 million people living in Gaza…it had no economy no real eduction system…they are are a deeply problematic population that no one wants…it’s not like Egypt want them…why do you think Egypt tends to stay quite about the place…it’s hoping no one says what about you taking the population on.

Perhaps exploring the option would yield the salutary effect of unequivocally demonstrating to the Palestinians the reality of their geopolitical status? 🤔😳

Maybe all of the nations in the godforsaken part of the world could get together and look at existing border and how they can be altered to provide space for the a country of Palestine

Hi M8, Sorry but on this one I totally disagree with you, but defend your right to voice your opinion 😉Unlike your example the Palestinians do not have a convenient neighbouring homeland to go to. Gaza is essentially the worlds largest self contained, self governing internment / refuge camp on earth with 2.2 million inmates.
The simple reasons for this are no Muslim country will accommodate the extra people. Jordan has had its fill of that and had its fingers burnt, Egypt is even more restrictive on movement from Gaza than the Israelis as they refuse to work with Hamas and want them gone as much as Israel does.

The 2nd reason is most of the Arab countries don’t want Hamas and Hezbollah on their territory so it’s convenient to know where they all are.

It’s a mess all round really 😔

Understand your principal thesis. Would tend to discredit the myth of Muslim solidarity, when probably no country offers shelter/resettlement option. 🤔😉

Forgotten the Jewish collaboration with the Imperial germany in WW1

Why should the Arbas accept a foreign proposal – Europe mainly- to partition their homeland- Would Zelensky do the same if the UN decided to do that for his country

not only that only 2 of the districts had a jewish majority but they were given was around half the land area. They ended up with 2/3 and that too was deliberate – Terrorism was rife from the jewish militias during british control and carried on after partition
The UN general assembly vote was rigged as Thailand didnt vote yes and the resolution would have failed. Those delegates replaced and vote was passed

Sure some places then were divided in half North south such as Vietnam and Korea , but Palestine wasnt North South at all and those places were political not religious divides.

End of WW1 1920 Mandate for Palestine under league of Nations created out of Ottoman ‘Syria’ province , sub provinces were named after the provincial capital , of which there were 3 or 4 in what became Palestine Mandate.

So theres the legal name then “Mandate For Palestine” read the original documents , its on the front Page FOR
Also
“name given to the Mandate’s territory was “Palestine”, in accordance with local Palestinian Arab and Ottoman usage”

The name used then , even in hebrew it was called that pālēśtīnā (פּלשׂתינה)

Iraq wasnt named that until then nor Saudi Arabia until 1930s or so.

.
Thats a futile claim to say Palestine didnt exist till 1988, it was used as the region name in 1920 , and existed long before that as roman province names .

The main point is that the continuity of the region name Palestine exists since the Ottoman period.

Jewish people in that time ? There were some in Palestine , but far bigger populations in the Ottoman Cities – Cairo, Constantinople, Damascus, Baghdad. They had their own schools and courts and some small autonomy that was unthinkable in Europe of the time.
So no jews in Ottoman era considered Palestine ‘home’ apart from tiny numbers in Jerusalem, indeed many arrivals from 1500s from the persecution in Europe settled in the major Ottoman cities mentioned

What I meant was it was a region by name for sure but not a state. I’m not an expert of course and im happy to be corrected. Who were the original inhabitants of the kingdom of Israel and Judah? Don’t Jewish people claim ancestory from their?

They were Semitic people then so were a lot of others in that era
The Phoenicians , the Carthaginians . all Semitic like the inhabitants of Judea.

pointless going back 2000 years to say this area was such and such people so they should have it now.
Mussolini worked on that idea that the Italians were claimants to as much of the Roman empire as possible

M8 Egypt will not allow it, they are on the other side of the Shia / Sunni Muslim split than Iran / Hamas. The only crossing is at Rafah and it is people only and very tightly controlled. The tunnels are the only way and they aren’t for civilians.
I think it is appalling what Hamas have done and they effectively have 2.2 million human shields. This isn’t going to be good.

Ahh, the Sunni Shia thing again, Ok.

Yes. Easy to spot.

Yep, diker!🚺

Hmmm…very interesting proposition. Could Duker be Esteban redux? Generally attempt to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but there are practical limits…

👍

The rest of the world doesnt operate on who controlled what 2000 years ago .
Italy or Greece would have a field day as you well know.
Its nonsense any way even in 1948 , as they were mostly europeans who arrived to create isreal. heard of migrants ?

Fact of history disagree with you
“The Philistines (Hebrew: פְּלִשְׁתִּים, romanized: Pəlīštīm; Koine Greek (LXX): Φυλιστιείμ, romanized: Phulistieím) were an ancient people who lived on the south coast of Canaan during the Iron Age. The Philistines originated as an immigrant group from the Aegean that settled in Canaan circa 1175 BCE.’

The Philistines/palestians as mentioned in the bible predated the Romans even …1000 years BC.

You delude yourself if no one else. Israel is an ancient country for an ancient race, the Jews. Arabs are the newcomers. In fact much of historic Israel is today part of Jordan and Egypt and Jews have no difficulty accepting that. Your arguments bend to one place: Eradicate the Jews. Try to be honest about your motives without distorting and inventing. Incidentally, ‘the rest of the world’ is mere geography, not confirmation of anything.

They hold UK citizenship and were visiting relatives – it seems non citizens can get entry from Israel.

Like I said there is little movement for locals like that

The ‘curse’ being that the Roman Republic became a victim of its own success. Graves’s work is essentially fiction though.

Thanks for the explanation of the ‘Punic Curse,’ have to admit previous ignorance re this term. Damn, this is collectively an erudite online forum! 😁👍

As ever Farouk, you have a depth of highly insightful information to share, many thanks.

I feel on this occasion though the fall of Jordan wouldn’t lead to an Iranian sphere of influence domino effect.

Uncle Sam is sending assets for a reason and they are letting everyone know loud and clear, through the not so subtle diplomacy of Sam’s big stick Carrier battle group.

Make no mistake, any foreign actions or attempted interventions against Israel with its almost inevitable invasion of Gaza and that big stick will be repeatedly swung!

The back channels will be buzzing and I am very sure the embassadors of everyone with a potential dog in the fight will be told in no uncertain terms to stay out of it!

Agree. It is so educational, I learn so much reading Fs pieces.

Jonathan wrote: “Do I think that gives Hamas the Moral right to slaughter innocent people.. no.” Then also wrote, “But to me those deaths (civilian deaths on Gaza) are on Hamas”. I’m just going to point out to you that your long-winded and twisted logic just concluded that Israel has the moral right to slaughter innocent civilians in Gaza because it is really Hamas’ fault according to your worldview.

No I did not say Isreal has the right to slaughter civilians..you Ron added that as an assumption…I made it clear that accidental civil deaths that happened due to Israel defending itself ( and in defence you have to counter attack) are on Hamas…it would not be on Hamas if Israel simply decided to ethnically cleanse Gaza…you missed out the bit of the argument that shows the moral equivalency argument is not valid. So israel launch a Bomb at Hamas that also kills civilians…vs Hamas who literally hunted civilians down and shot them dead targeting them for terror reasons.

so for me the following is true….

civilians being killed when you are actually trying to target you enemy is not the moral equivalency of targeting civilians with the purpose of simply killing the innocent as a way to attack your enemy..

The difficulty comes when you start targeting civilian infrastructure as a way to degrade your enemy…..but again does a nation have the right to do that when the enemy seeks its utter destruction?

in regards to the nuclear deterrent it’s old discus of the moral difference between counter force and counter value….both lead to massive casualties but one is aimed at the destruction of the enemies ability to attack you the other is to simple kill as many of the enemies civilian population as possible…it’s why our nuclear deterrent used counter force not counter value.

I don’t think your argument is well thought out. First of all, I think most reasonable people would acknowledge Gaza has been the largest prison camp in the world for many years now with a 16 year blockade imposed by Israel and Egypt. Now Israel has announced a siege of it: no food, no water, no electricity, and quite the bombing campaign for over 2 million people. The hospitals are all running out of fuel for their generators, already 400 children have been killed, and over 250,000 displaced with nowhere really to go. As you say, “targeting civilians with the purpose of simply killing the innocent as a way to attack your enemy”, well one could make the argument that is exactly what Israel is trying to do to Hamas thus far with the siege of Gaza. The US Sec. of State Blinken warned today, “How Israel does this matters.” You then go on to say, “Does a nation have a right to do that when the enemy seeks its utter destruction?” This just seems naive considering the amount of Zionists in power (specifically right-wing Likud) who have displayed no interest in negotiating a settlement but rather just building more. Nevertheless, in your original post, you rightly acknowledge terrible grievances on both sides. But then make the jump to it being a battle of good vs.evil based on a slew of very debatable points such as blame for the CURRENT conflicts resting solely on one side that wasn’t even the Palestinians but rather Egypt and Jordan due to historical reasons! There’s also an insinuation in there that Hamas would rather kill civilians than soldiers in a peer conflict which I doubt. You earlier acknowledge the grievances in this conflict are a grey area – as most issues are in life. I, for one, could never imagine the RAF conducting a bombing campaign the likes of which Israel is conducting in Gaza.

Hamas are terrorists there is no excuse for murdering women and children. Videos which are all over social media have now been verified of Hamas beheading captives. This is beyond the pale , they have crossed the line into ISIS status.

senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar last December openly bragged about his plans for world domination: I won’t repeat his religious fuelled ravings but I can assure you he wasn’t only talking about Israel

There is fault on both sides but the general narrative Is one that airbrushes history and and is deeply bias against the Jews.

Israel is entirely justified in the actions it’s taking . Hamas has brought this death and suffering onto its own people by its actions. Look what the US did after 9/11 the destruction and trail of death it laid across the region in Afghanistan and Iraq in particular how many died as a result of that response?

There never was an ancient Palestinian nation , a Palestinian people , a Palestinian language , or a Palestinian culture, this is just a modern myth from the last 60 or so years used to further an anti Israel cause.

The history books ( not the rewritten propaganda shite that the bbc likes to put out ) show In AD 135 the Romans who were in control of the land { Israel} built a temple to Jupiter on the Temple Mount . This resulted in a Jewish rebellion during which around half a million Jews were killed , the rest were scattered. Roman anger against the Jews resulted in the denunciatory title being put on the land and it renamed “ Syria Palestina” this comes from Israel’s ancient enemies the Philistines as a big FU to the Jews. The Jews who remained living in the land from then on were called Palestinians . This is confirmed by the British Army during WW2 having a Palestinian brigade of volunteers who were all Jews.

There was a Palestinian symphony orchestra again all Jews ,there was also the Palestinian post Jewish newspaper. It was only after 1948 that the few Arab inhabitants of the land began to call themselves Palestinian.

The Balfour declaration,and the 1919 Paris peace conference both recognised the land that had come to be known as Palestine was really Israel . Unfortunately Britain which had the mandate shamefully betrayed the Jews and let in the Arabs due to the Arab nations discovering oil and for the sake of oil we betrayed what we promised the Jews , a return to there ancient homeland. The result ended in most of the territory being given to create Jordan. UN resolution 181 ,Nov 29th 1947 is called the partition of the land with the world giving the Jews only 13% of the land they had promised them despite recognising it belonged to them in the first place.

Yasser Arafat the PLO head honcho was an Egyptian when he rolled into Lebanon in the late 70’s with his PLO followers all Arabs and wrecked that nation he then moved into the so called occupied territories and here we are today…..

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

have you heard of bomber harris….?

Correct re Truman’s assessment of probable casualty count resulting from an invasion of the Japanese home islands. The baseline assessment was 1+M casualties, and a significant proportion would have been Brit, Aussie and Kiwi, as well as Yanks. Really distilled into a case of no viable, politically acceptable, alternative. Roosevelt undoubtedly would have consulted Churchill; did Truman? 🤔

Hi M8, Churchill was perfectly aware in advance of the Bomb being dropped in fact Truman and Churchill jointly briefed Stalin about the devices existence at the Yalta conference in Feb 1945.
Uncle Joe just listened and said nothing, but then again his intelligence service had already told him all about it.
Churchill was called by Truman immediately after the Trinity Test to inform him of its success, then again he would know anyway as we helped build it.
You are probably aware that it was the UK and Canada that kick started the Manhattan project in 1940 and there were dozens of U.K. engineers and Scientists working at Los Alamos on the device. Google Tube Alloys.
Which is why Group Captain Leonard Cheshire was at Tinian in July 1945 and observed the 2nd attack on the 8th.
As to how things ran we were alied and all the evidence points to it being a joint decision.
Here is an account from Margaret Truman that you may find interesting.

In January 1953 Churchill attended a dinner in honour of Truman, who was about to leave office. At one point in the evening he suddenly turned round and said: ‘Mr. President, I hope you have your answer ready for that hour when you and I stand before Saint Peter and he says, “I understand you two are responsible for putting off those atomic bombs. What have you got to say for yourselves?”’ A role-play game ensued in which the other guests – among them the Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff and the US Secretary of State – formed a jury composed of historic figures (Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Socrates). ‘The case was tried’, Truman’s daughter Margaret recalled, ‘and the Prime Minister acquitted’ of any atomic wrongdoing. 

The reference to Roosevelt (and Truman) was in terms of actually employing the weapon(s).

Canada had the 6th Division set up for an invasion of Japan as part to the Commonwealth Corps as well.

Thanks for the update. 👍 Would not be surprised if other Commonwealth countries were not also slated for participation (e.g., SA, India, etc.)

A Brigade from the 6th was attached with the US in the Aleutian island campaign. Most of Canada’s divisions were in Europe or central Canada. But the Pacific command had two divisions formed for west coast defence and later for offense.

History has a longer view, maybe before yours and mine time

“Seventy-five years ago, Zionist militias tore through Palestinian villages, massacring the villagers and expelling those who remained alive, to clear the way for the creation of the state of Israel.
An estimated 15,000 Palestinians were killed and hundreds of thousands fled their homes to live as refugees in other parts of Palestine or neighbouring countries, an event known by Palestinians as the Nakba – “the catastrophe”.”

One specifically is well known
“What is the Deir Yassin massacre?On April 9, 1948, just weeks before the creation of the State of Israel, members of the Irgun and Stern Gang Zionist militias attacked the village of Deir Yassin, killing at least 107 Palestinians.
According to testimonies from the perpetrators and surviving victims, many of the people slaughtered – from those who were tied to trees and burned to death to those lined up against a wall and shot by submachine guns – were women, children and the elderly.”

Of course its horrendous what Hamas has done this week. I dont understand why they done it.

That’s an odd one to use Dunker, these things occurred before the creation of Israel, so not really seeing your point??

“Of course its horrendous what Hamas has done this week. I don’t understand why they done it.”

What’s don’t you understand Dunker?

Hamas want the Israeli State destroyed and it’s citizens put to death, that’s about it, they are savage animals cut from the same cloth as the Nazis, Kamer Rouge, ISIS etc etc …

Different uniforms, same animal, an ideological murderous bloodlust and hatred for their fellow man.

Hamas need to absolutely destroyed as an organisation, just as the international community dropped the hammer on the Cancer that was ISIS.

What’s possibly next?

The Egyptians will eventually be forced to open the southern boarder, to allow the civilians to cross to safety.

The IDF will then likely use a combination of fuel air munions and bunker busters to destroy tunnel networks, then invade and occupy Gaza.

There’s no place for diplomacy now for Israel, they are mobilising with the singular goal of removing Hamas from the face of the planet, that’s a fixed and razer focused effort that will go on for years.

That will also mean a doubling down of Mossad intelligence operations and state sanctioned assassinations world wide.

I believe that a good number of former Mossad intelligence officers have also offered to return to service to bolster that already formidable clandestine organisation.

You can guarantee, they will go after every single facet of Hamas, wherever that might be hiding.

Those militia heads became the leaders of Israel Thats the aim of the militias was to create Israel. Cant just wash your hands like that .
The massacre in the Kibbutz I dont under stand

There’s no depths of hell deep enough for Hamas, Israel have a perfect right to defend themselves and they are going to do just that with a very big stick……

You’re not actually arguing a case for Hamas are you Dunker?

Thanks for offering to read my mind but no thanks
Just that history shows that Irgun was once doing massacres and leaders of those terrorist groups – even attacking the British military and facilities- became Israel’s leaders

Just as the IRA would remember the Black and Tans ...maybe history repeats , surely someone once said that

Heres something else that happened 80 or so years ago before Israel was created , do you think that too must be forgotten and stay in the now

Your history is shaky and you may not have heard of the Holocaust, but its wasnt caused by the Arabs

I’m struggling to follow you Dunker, maybe it makes more sense in Russian??

You have been trapped by your circular argument about what didnt matter before Isreal was’ created’. Simple isnt it.
So now its create a diversion by making stuff up about me, that seems easy for you , as it has been all along

Sorry if you’re not a Russian morse tapper, but you really do come across as one unfortunately….

The way you write is so very similar to previous St Petersburg Troll farm graduates, that come and go from here.

Where are you from as a matter of interest?

My position, I absolutely stand behind Israel, there we go, colours pinned to the mast. To paraphrase the imortal words of that legend Bomber Harris ‘Hamas have sowed the wind and they will now reap the whirlwind’

Whatever happens to the Palestinians is on them, fair and square.

How about you, where do you stand?

Your geopolitical understanding is appalling .
Israel and Russia are more like Frenemies that would be unthinkable with most Nato countries except Turkiye

. Putin and Netanyahu have maintained contacts and El Al continued flights to Moscow like its Arab and African neighbours. Theres the situation in Syria but also Israel has a large minority of Russians , who might not support the war but dont see the country like you. In some ways Isreal is ‘nuetral ‘ over the ukriane war

Just throwing the T word around , just shows your ignorant thinking

Nice question dodging Dunker, so not from the UK?

You appear to be having an argument with yourself for some reason.

You’re clearly against Israel, it’s like pulling teeth, but your slowly showing your true colours.

Im neutral , not a keyboard warrior like you

Getting a little defensive there Dunker, get you
‘keyboard warrior’ .

What a curious thing to say, genuinely interested to know why you would say that, is it because I’ve got a pair of testicles and support Israel’s right to defend itself??

You’re ‘neutral’, you won’t condem Hamas?

Very telling indeed.

When did I not call the massacre at the kibbutz an atrocity.
It was of course as much an atrocity as similar at Deir Yassin by jewish militias

Do you wear your Stasi uniform while exposing those who arent as fervent as yourself ?

Oh lord, what are you calling me now, apparently I’m part of the defunct East German security forces ??

Again, it’s possibly a case of lost context in translation, so Ill give you that and pretend to be horribly insulted old chap.

I suggest you take a tablet, grab a cold compress and go have some quiet time in a dark room Dunker, hopefully not the Kremlin basement.

No more chatting to you Dunker, I don’t want to be responsible for another unfortunate soul heading to the front lines for a HIMARS handshake.

Dont like it when you get it in return- assumptions about background or origin- do you.
Just stick to what is said my friend

Goodbye, farewell, au revoir, auf Wiedersehen Goodbye 👋

You appear to be having an argument with yourself for some reason.

You’re clearly against Israel, it’s like pulling teeth, but your slowly showing your true colours.

you …you… you ..you..
4 assumptions of what im thinking from our thought police friend.

And again, because it clearly isn’t sinking in yet…

“Goodbye, farewell, au revoir, auf Wiedersehen Goodbye 👋

Hi John that is true and I suspect If Iran are evidenced to be involved ( which I suspect everyone knows they are) then there will be a number of punishment raids ( and as you Israel can get their for that)…what I was think of was an actual war, not a number of armed interventions..I don’t think a full blown war can be prosecuted between the two nations..without the nations in between joining the war on one side or the other. Even a navel campaign your talking 3000 miles and the Suez Canal between them…so punishment yes….war not really logistically possible.

Unless of course Israel treats Iran to a bucket of sunshine, your one stop war…..

The likelihood of that is now far higher than at any othe time in Israel’s modern history as Israel hasn’t been deeply wounded like this in 50 years.

They are rightly ‘very’ angry and vengeful at the moment, a proven link to Iran and all bets are off!

I don’t believe Israel would go nuclear unless it was an existential issue ( such as the imminent collapse of the Israeli defence forces)…unless is was used for an existential issue they would become instant international pariahs and the U.S. would end its support, they would suffer internal sanctions… it would likely spell the end of Israel to be honest as any and all of the Arab states aligned to the U.S. would be looking to end the Israeli state and they would be cut off internationally.

it’s very unlikely anyone is going to forgive the first state to go nuclear outside of a world war.

Excellent points Jonathan, but the Israeli political leadership and military/intelligence head shed hasn’t been under this much sustained pressure to act since the darkest days yom kippur war.

I doubt anything is off the table….

An additional factor in Israeli calculations re Iran could well be the current and projected enrichment levels of Iranian uranium supply. Open source reports indicate minimal lag time to develop a weapon. Thus, if Israelis can conclusively document Iranian intent…🤔😳😱

That is a very good point, if Isreal linked in a nuclear threat with this appalling attack to Iran..I think potentially they could do something profoundly foolish ( anyone unleashing a nuclear weapon is a fool tbh).

even so this is such a horrific attack if Israel finds evidence of Iranian influence I suspect the response will be very significant ( well as much as you can against an enemy 1000miles away over other neutrals nations).

Of course a bucket of sunshine could go off at a suspected nuclear site in Iran. Then Israel says “not us gov” & points to dodgy building standards of the mad mullahs.

It’s quite possible, you can guarantee Israel has a version of the proverbial KGB suitcase device of Cold War fame.

A small sub tactical nuke could well be framed as an accident….

Plausible deniability and all that.

JC wrote:

It’s quite possible, you can guarantee Israel has a version of the proverbial KGB suitcase device of Cold War fame.

Israel has the Samson option , and during the early days of the Yom kippur war, when Israel was surprised on two fronts and was losing ground Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized a nuclear alert and ordered 13 atomic bombs be readied for use by missiles and aircraft. That move is the main reason why the US ordered a huge airlift of supplies (whilst the airlift got all the news, the sealift supplied much more) which we know as Operation Nickel Grass.
Funny enough whilst many claim that this is what allowed Israel to win the war, the Russians (well soviets) shifted more.
US airlift: 22,325 tons US Sea lift: 33,210 tons
Soviet airlift: 12,500–15,000 tons Soviet Sea lift: 63,000 tons

Saudi Arabia didn’t allow Israeli Aircraft to overfly it’s territory in 1981,it was a combination of luck and guile that enabled that mission to happen.With the diplomatic efforts of China regarding rapprochement of SA and Iran i wouldn’t count on any help from them now now either. – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

I don’t think, after decades of siege, that Israel can entirely escape responsibility for this situation.

How’s the echo chamber treating you bud?

Perhaps you can ask duker?

Sorry I remember the name but I’m not getting the reference. They’re another person staying rent free?

Perhaps we could play bot bingo on this site? Guess which country they are in. Russia, China, North Korea, Iran. Have I missed any?

Honestly I find it’s better to actually fact check their BS (usually not hard), rather than just trying to cancel them, otherwise you’re just letting the team down

Hamas have made their choice and sealed their fate, with that murderous rampage of rape and torture the other day, butchering hundreds of civilians, woman and children, they have built their own gallows and the hangman is waiting in the form of the unstoppable IDF war machine….

The end of Gaza is squarely on Hamas and Iran.
Anything less than the physical removal of Gaza from the map, will be seen as weakness by the Israeli population at this point and unacceptable.

The gloves are off, call it ethnic cleansing if you like, it’s going to happen I am sure.

Unfortunately, millions of innocent Palestinian civilians will pay that terrible price, being cought in the crossfire, or used as human shields by those cowardly scumbags.

I do wonder though. Hamas planned this and knew what Israel’s response would be. What do they have lying in wait for the IDF and will it spark war on other borders?

Or did they plan something much smaller. A border attack, before they knew it every man and his dog turned up bring there own guns, found no resistance, happened upon a festival and the whole thing went way to well!

Good question. The US has persuaded Qatar to block the Iran’s access to the $6B fund given as part of the agreement between Iran and the US. They clearly believe Iran has reneged on the nuclear deal and is behind the Hamas attack. Its interesting that the BBC refers to Hamas as ‘militants’ rather than terrorists. A terrorists is someone who uses violence in pursuit of a political objective; e.g. a political solution to the displacement of the Palestinian people resulting from the creation of the state of Israel. A militant is simply another name for a fighter. What the BBC is saying is the elephant in the room – that Hamas has no interest in a political solution – in that sense it’s not a terrorist organisation – it is essentially a unit of Iranian armed forces and has been tasked by the Mullahs with destroying the Jewish people. This attack was intended to draw in other malign actors and overwhelm the IDF.

T
This so called siege is the biggest lie peddled by the likes of Hamas in which to allow them to play the victim card.
Israel allows in convoys everyday
Its easy to debunk, do a google on Gaza supermarkets, they are better stocked than many UK ones.
In fact, it is well reported that the vast majority of concrete shipped into Gaza was used to build tunnels and not homes
1000s travel each year to Mecca for the Haj, its well reported.
100s of Gazans are treated inside Israeli Hospitals every week. In fact Ismail Haniyeh’s (leader of Hamas at the time) daughter’ was treated in a Tel Aviv for over a week in 2014 not long after that years conflict ended. His grand-daughter was treated in Nov 2013, and his mother-in-law in June 2014. This from a bloke who is on record of saying he wants to see the destruction of Israel.
Currently The Scottish First ministers parents are in Gaza on holiday.

Finally Hamas launched over 3000 military grade rockets into Israel on the first day alone. Where did Hamas find the materials to build such seeing the last time they had a bunflight they lobbed 4000. For a country under siege they appear to have no problem getting their hands on weapons.
It’s nothing more than a huge con trick designed to allow them to play the victim card in which to garner pity and lots of money. Regards that aid,  Ismail Haniyeh’s the leader of Hamas from 2014 to 2017 retired to the UAE at the end of his tenue relocated to Qatar, with a bank account of around $4 million, but that’s nothing Khaled Mashaal whom he replaced as Hamas leader left with $2 billion in the bank, (he lives in the UAE) his number 2: Dr. Musa Abu Marzook left with between $2 to 3 billion in the bank. All this is public knowledge, well reported and yet in order to cut off at the pass any questions regards corruption all we hear is “Israeli siege” 

Unlike the majority of people, I actually decided to look a little closer into Israel after the 2006 Hezb-allah war and it was most revealing how so much misinformation is spread .

I completely agree it wasn’t a siege but it sure looks like one now. Israel has closed up every thing, all the crossings as has Egypt, no Water, Fuel, Food or Medical Supplies. That’s a siege plain and simple. What makes it worse is that years ago the Israeli settlers outside the Gazza strip needed water for irrigation and decided to drill extra deep wells to extract it (some are 1000 to 1500m, that resulted in the shallow Aquafers under Gazza drying up so the locals are now 100% reliant on Israeli suppplied water.
However it was also a bit of an own goal as now Hamas didn;t have to worry about the tunnels being flooded when it rained and could dig way deeper ones. Egypts solution was to dig canals from the sea and flood them with Sea water which destroyed all the remaining arable land in the strip.

“do a google on Gaza supermarkets”
I have, I’ll let you know when I find a picture of any fresh food..

T wrote:
“”I have, I’ll let you know when I find a picture of any fresh food””

Didnt look very hard then, as the net is full of pictures of Gazan supermarkets (esp during Ramadan) Twitter and YT have plenty of videos of people shopping, then there are the stalls.

Oh don’t worry, I’m not the only one not looking very hard: foodstuffs have been allowed in since 2010 (However anything necessary to make Gaza self sufficient is not.)
But important to note that it is Israel that decides what comes in, not the Palestinians.

I honestly don’t know how you thought you could deny the blockade but this is getting silly now.
It’s time for you to return the favour and Google ‘Iron Wall’.

The problem is there is a very good reason Egypt closed the Boarders and that’s because Hamas are almost as much a threat to Egypt as they are to Israel..the Sinai province of IS and Hamas work hand in glove..and having a load of Hamas extremisms in the Sinai reinforcing IS is not something Egypt can tolerate..they have made it very Clear that Hamas is Israel’s problem and they want nothing to do with it…it’s why it’s very unlikely you will hear Egypt do much more than make a few noises when Isreal go over the top….I think what you may see is a tension around the Golan heights with Lebanon and Syria…again focused around Hezbollah…I think a key issue will be what happens in the West Bank…and can fatah keep a lid on the extremisms…If we see attacks from across the Golan heights…and West Bank..it’s likely to degrade into a regional war….and the west will need to decide where it stands and what it will do ( any and all scenarios are a geopolitical win for Russia, Iran and by extension china).

Totally agree, however the wider Muslim world will begin to heap huge pressure on Egypt to ‘do something’ i.e open the boarder, as the humanitarian crisis goes critical.

On a wider note, I don’t feel that neutrality is an option here, this is after all the worst terrorist atrocity against a Western Country since 9/11.

Options, a NATO deployment to some of Israel’s border areas ( a sort of KFOR type deployment), specifically Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt, in a limited defensive capacity to prevent attacks from from those quarters with strict rules of engagement.

All parties understanding that an attack against NATO would be a bad idea…

Hit the NATO trip wire and reap the whirlwind.

Boarders secured, Israel could concentrate on Gaza operations and the Syrian boarder.

It would require a self contained light division of 10,000 per NATO member…

Obviously Germany wouldn’t deploy, as it would be away that weekend tending to an elderly parent, or have a sick note, or some other lame excuse…

What’s Turkeys position, does anyone know?

I don’t think we will see western boots on the ground..unless it all travels south….Isreal is able to manage Hamas..the problem is how to engage Hamas when it hides in the most populated place on earth…But what I think you are seeing is a very clear message from the west that any state intervention against Israel will be met with a state intervention from the west….hopefully that will 1) keep the Arab nations from not being pushed into another Arab Israeli war by some sectors of their society..2) Egypt may actually need to ask for a hand keeping the lid on the Sinai…I suspect if it opens the boarder with Gaza it will say this is an “international” problem…we cannot sort this one out on our own….the UN has a history of a peace keeping force in that area…this one would be about suppression of IS and Hamas in the Sinai.

As of 2022-23 Israel was more and more looking like it would apply for NATO membership at some point….I suspect at some point the request will come.

personally I think the only way out now is the destruction of Hamas and Gaza being placed under the control of Fatah…with a final agreement on a two state solution..fatah being supported by Arab league peace keepers to ensure Hamas and its IS friends do not crawl back…it has to be Arab league peace keepers…you don’t want the west or non muslin peacekeepers as Hamas and the extremists will use that. Maybe western/NATO peace keepers on the Israeli side of the fence…..but again you have to watch the Zionist extremists…who are just as happy to go on a killing spree….

Apologies, somehow I got the impression you had an issue with me being disgusted that people were calling for a genocide in Gaza..

To be fair Farouk and Tomartyer, this situation is absolutely horrifying, any right thinking person should be deeply disturbed at what’s happening and I think we all are. We can all agree on that point.

I think if we step back from the emotional response though, we can see the direction of travel here. Israel will slowly steamroll and
(possibly) level every building, as they push south to the Egyptian boarder.

It’s going to happen, the Gaza strip will be erased from the map. I don’t see any other options for Israel?

As much as I hate it I can’t see any other permanent solution (short of a Palestinian uprising against Hamas) as long as Hamas is calling for the destruction of Israel.

It’s become a war of annihilation on both sides and the worst is yet to come.

Its going to be hell on earth in the Gaza strip…

Following on and down the line, what lessons will Israel take from this disaster?

I think Mossad will be far more proactive, as will the IDF SF community and the Airforce, now the gloves are off they will take the fight to the enemy with renewed vigor wherever they can reach them.

I’m sure Lebanon, Jordan and what passes
for governance in Syria these days will be informed of the dire consequences of allowing attacks from their boarders…

Iran, above all can expect serious payback….

No point worrying about escalation now I suppose, that horse has fled the stable and took the gate clean off the hinges…

Which may end up being a pyrrhic victory if their methods (or rather what is reported by the media) turn Western opinion against them, they’ll have to be careful not to end up overstretched with many enemies and few friends.
The overwhelming power of the IDF may prove to be a weakness if it bites off more than Israel can chew.