On 7 October, tensions sharply rose as Palestinian militant groups, prominently led by Hamas, initiated Operation al-Aqsa Storm, launching an unprecedented incursion from the Gaza Strip into Israel.
This event marks the first direct engagement on Israeli soil since the landmark 1948 Arab-Israeli War.
The offensive was signalled by a pre-dawn barrage of rockets from Gaza. Following this initial onslaught, militants successfully circumvented the Gaza-Israel barrier, entering Israeli territories with a pronounced focus on civilian settlements and military installations near the border.
Key Statistics:
- Rocket Launches: Over 3,000 rockets were dispatched from Gaza towards Israel.
- Casualties: Reports indicate the loss of 700 Israelis and 500 Palestinians, encompassing 78 children and 41 women. The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) state the neutralisation of over 400 combatants.
- Hostage Situation: Several individuals have reportedly been taken hostage by Palestinian militants, with some possibly relocated to Gaza.
In retaliation, the IDF has embarked on a comprehensive operation termed Iron Swords. The Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, made a forthright declaration during a national broadcast that Israel is now at war, the first such formal pronouncement since the Yom Kippur War in 1973.
Israeli Countermeasures:
- Aerial Campaign: Israel has orchestrated a systematic series of airstrikes, targeting key locales within Gaza. Notably, 426 sites were bombed overnight, leading to significant damage in Beit Hanoun. The Al-Amin Muhammad Mosque has also been levelled.
- Ground Engagements: As of 9 October, the IDF asserts its regained control over all Israeli communities adjacent to the Gaza Strip.
In a strategic move, Israel has enforced a full blockade on Gaza, cutting off electricity and halting the inflow of essential goods such as food and fuel.
Rescue operations are underway, with the IDF confirming the successful resolution of two such situations. Evacuations of residents from areas bordering Gaza continue apace. Concurrently, the Israeli government has mobilised an estimated 300,000 reservists, aiming to undermine Hamas’s military strength and end its governance over Gaza.
9 October Briefing:
- Aerial Engagements: The IDF has reported targeting 500 distinct sites within Gaza, with significant bombardments in the densely populated Jabalia refugee camp leading to multiple casualties.
- Ongoing Ground Operations: Ground operations persist, notably in Sderot, even as the IDF claims control over the surrounding areas of Gaza.
This developing situation highlights a significant intensification in the long-standing Israel-Gaza dispute. We will endeavour to provide continuous updates on this rapidly evolving situation.
Further to my last regards the reason for Hamas barbarity against civilians esp woman and children is to get Israel to go overboard in its retaliation so as to allow others to strike Israel (including attacks abroad, already happened in Golder Green) Here is the latest news announcement from Hamas: it will begin executing an Israeli civilian captive in return for any new Israeli bombing. Also interesting and which will feed into the Islamic victimhood mentality at the hands of the West is the EU has halted all aid to Palestine, ( €691 million) not just Gaza but the WB as… Read more »
I think the Israelis will do what they have been holding off for years, fully mobilise and enter the Gaza strip in strength, with ring of steel all around and push right through to the Egyptian boarder.
The losses will be high, but it’s really hard to see any viable alternative, other than house to house fighting to the bitter end now….
Anything less will be seen as weakness in the Israeli population…
Followed by occupation for years.
Gaza has been under Israeli air sea and land blockade for decades …there is no leaving
Would you say Israelis should leave to be with their US supporters ?
Would you accept that, remember its Israel that was created inside Palestine as Europes answer to the holocaust that the Nazi/Germans perpetrated.
Reasonably certain Israel would accommodate Palestinian requests to permit permanent departure/emigration from Gaza, w/ the exception of documented Hamas members. Israel would probably offer some level of compensation to emigrants for real property thus forfeited. There is a recent, relevant example of relatively bloodless, successful ethnic cleansing, albeit on a smaller scale. Ethnic Armenians departed/evacuated Ngorno-Karabak region of Azerbaijan on a nominally voluntary basis, after the loss of a final battle for control of the region. The ethnic Armenians reported sustaining several hundred casualties during the one day operation, however were not impeded during the subsequent civilian evacuation. Problem thus… Read more »
False claim. They stopped airlines using airport back in 2000. Cant even go to Mecca !
You need to have more information rather than what you think they might do
Dont really agree with your ethnic cleansing ideas , that how Israel began with that as their policy to enlarge the area created by the UN
Iranian Hamas stormed the control crossing that thousands of Arabs used everyday to work or receive medical treatment in Israel. Hamas is Iran’s means to destroy the Jews and fulfil Islamic prophesy. Read the Qu’an.
Duker wrote: Cant even go to Mecca ! Actually that’s not true thousands from Gaza carry out the pilgrimage every Haj. I cite Aljazeera from June 17th this year: Four Hajj delegations leave besieged Gaza to Mecca According to the Ministry of Endowments and Religious Affairs, the pilgrims travelled from Gaza during a four-day span, with 900 pilgrims in the first group, 900 on the second, 600 in the third, and 500 pilgrims on the fourth day. In final pre-Hajj preparations, Fathia al-Hassanat, 58, from Khan Yunis south of the Gaza Strip, expressed her joy to perform the Hajj… Read more »
This years lottery …. for a few hundred out of over 2 mill ?
The difference is the Nagorno-Karabakh region was lightly populated region of ethic Armenians who were welcomed by Armenian and will be easily settled..Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth the are almost 3 million people living in Gaza…it had no economy no real eduction system…they are are a deeply problematic population that no one wants…it’s not like Egypt want them…why do you think Egypt tends to stay quite about the place…it’s hoping no one says what about you taking the population on.
Perhaps exploring the option would yield the salutary effect of unequivocally demonstrating to the Palestinians the reality of their geopolitical status? 🤔😳
Maybe all of the nations in the godforsaken part of the world could get together and look at existing border and how they can be altered to provide space for the a country of Palestine
Hi M8, Sorry but on this one I totally disagree with you, but defend your right to voice your opinion 😉Unlike your example the Palestinians do not have a convenient neighbouring homeland to go to. Gaza is essentially the worlds largest self contained, self governing internment / refuge camp on earth with 2.2 million inmates. The simple reasons for this are no Muslim country will accommodate the extra people. Jordan has had its fill of that and had its fingers burnt, Egypt is even more restrictive on movement from Gaza than the Israelis as they refuse to work with Hamas… Read more »
Understand your principal thesis. Would tend to discredit the myth of Muslim solidarity, when probably no country offers shelter/resettlement option. 🤔😉
Just a reminder that it was the Mufti of Jerusalem that fled to NAZI Germany in 1938 to escape British arrest for the uprising he had fomented. The chief bomb maker for the Arab/Palestinians in 1948 War or Independence/Naqab was trained by the SS. When the UN passed the November 1947 Resolution to partition the land into Arab and Jewish areas it was the Arabs who refused and launched an attack when the UK withdrew in May 1948. Throughout the Arab media the cry in 1948 was to push the Jews into the sea – the same platform that Hamas… Read more »
Forgotten the Jewish collaboration with the Imperial germany in WW1 Why should the Arbas accept a foreign proposal – Europe mainly- to partition their homeland- Would Zelensky do the same if the UN decided to do that for his country not only that only 2 of the districts had a jewish majority but they were given was around half the land area. They ended up with 2/3 and that too was deliberate – Terrorism was rife from the jewish militias during british control and carried on after partition The UN general assembly vote was rigged as Thailand didnt vote yes… Read more »
Palestine didn’t really exist legally till 1988 when yassa Arafat proclaimed it so. The area was called Palestine by the British after they took control from the ottoman Syrian empire who controlled it for 400 years. If you want to go back in history then the kingdom of Israel existed in 1000 bc. I understand why the forming of the current Israel is so contentious but its always simplified to the story of ‘Britain stole palatine and made Israel. That’s my rough take on it.
End of WW1 1920 Mandate for Palestine under league of Nations created out of Ottoman ‘Syria’ province , sub provinces were named after the provincial capital , of which there were 3 or 4 in what became Palestine Mandate. So theres the legal name then “Mandate For Palestine” read the original documents , its on the front Page FOR Also “name given to the Mandate’s territory was “Palestine”, in accordance with local Palestinian Arab and Ottoman usage” The name used then , even in hebrew it was called that pālēśtīnā (פּלשׂתינה) Iraq wasnt named that until then nor Saudi Arabia until… Read more »
What I meant was it was a region by name for sure but not a state. I’m not an expert of course and im happy to be corrected. Who were the original inhabitants of the kingdom of Israel and Judah? Don’t Jewish people claim ancestory from their?
They were Semitic people then so were a lot of others in that era
The Phoenicians , the Carthaginians . all Semitic like the inhabitants of Judea.
pointless going back 2000 years to say this area was such and such people so they should have it now.
Mussolini worked on that idea that the Italians were claimants to as much of the Roman empire as possible
Via Egypt? The blockade is not entirely under Israeli control.
M8 Egypt will not allow it, they are on the other side of the Shia / Sunni Muslim split than Iran / Hamas. The only crossing is at Rafah and it is people only and very tightly controlled. The tunnels are the only way and they aren’t for civilians.
I think it is appalling what Hamas have done and they effectively have 2.2 million human shields. This isn’t going to be good.
Ahh, the Sunni Shia thing again, Ok.
Is duker a troll? There are people on this site who are good at spotting bots. Asking for a friend.
Yes. Easy to spot.
Yep, diker!🚺
Hmmm…very interesting proposition. Could Duker be Esteban redux? Generally attempt to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but there are practical limits…
Wrong in every deatil. Just one. After the Jewish Revolt in the first century A.D. (predicted by CJesus) the Romans crushed the Jews and renamed their country Palestine. Palestine is was and remains Jewish soil. Read your Bible.
👍
The rest of the world doesnt operate on who controlled what 2000 years ago . Italy or Greece would have a field day as you well know. Its nonsense any way even in 1948 , as they were mostly europeans who arrived to create isreal. heard of migrants ? Fact of history disagree with you “The Philistines (Hebrew: פְּלִשְׁתִּים, romanized: Pəlīštīm; Koine Greek (LXX): Φυλιστιείμ, romanized: Phulistieím) were an ancient people who lived on the south coast of Canaan during the Iron Age. The Philistines originated as an immigrant group from the Aegean that settled in Canaan circa 1175 BCE.’ The… Read more »
You delude yourself if no one else. Israel is an ancient country for an ancient race, the Jews. Arabs are the newcomers. In fact much of historic Israel is today part of Jordan and Egypt and Jews have no difficulty accepting that. Your arguments bend to one place: Eradicate the Jews. Try to be honest about your motives without distorting and inventing. Incidentally, ‘the rest of the world’ is mere geography, not confirmation of anything.
Duker wrote:
“”Gaza has been under Israeli air sea and land blockade for decades …there is no leaving””
And yet the in-laws of the Scottish First Minister had no problem flying over from Dundee for a Holiday. They are still there. How do I know, he’s gone public with it.
They hold UK citizenship and were visiting relatives – it seems non citizens can get entry from Israel.
Like I said there is little movement for locals like that
I’m thinking the eventual fate of Carthage after the 3rd Punic War.
Resulting in the Punic curse, if I remember my Robert Graves correctly.
The ‘curse’ being that the Roman Republic became a victim of its own success. Graves’s work is essentially fiction though.
Thanks for the explanation of the ‘Punic Curse,’ have to admit previous ignorance re this term. Damn, this is collectively an erudite online forum! 😁👍
👍👍
The Carthaginians were a Semitic people…
Why do others want to keep wiping them out
It’s completely to get Israel to react against Gaza..for the purpose of fuelling a geopolitical change..but it’s not focused on Europe in any way..this is very much about Jordan, Iran has been working for a number of years to move Jordan from an almost enemy to an ally against Israel…Iran cannot really get to Israel unless it’s facilitated by Jordan and or Egypt. Iran and Hamas know very well Jordan has not been happy with the present Israeli government for a year or so…this is a move to force Israel into brutal action in Gaza. Gaza is so populated any… Read more »
Jonathan wrote: This is very much about Jordan, Iran has been working for a number of years to move Jordan from an almost enemy to an ally against Israel. Oh I agree. Jonathan wrote: “Iran and Hamas know very well Jordan has not been happy with the present Israeli government for a year or so” Not exactly true, allow me to elaborate, The Muslim Brotherhood has had a home inside Jordan since 1945 and is closely aligned with the (Now banned) Egyptian Muslim brotherhood . After the 1994 peace accord it became very vocal and took on a much more… Read more »
Very interesting cheers for that. Jordan is one of those geopolitical lynchpin countries that a lot can turn around. As we know with Iran it can all turn on a die if the religious fundamentalists get a sniff of a rout to power…as long as we have a moderate almost secular kingdom ( yes it’s state religion is Muslim, but it allows religious freedoms) in Jordan that is mainly aligned with the west we will probably not see a full scale Arab Israeli conflict ( the conflict with Hamas and Hezbollah I don’t count as state on state conflict as… Read more »
As ever Farouk, you have a depth of highly insightful information to share, many thanks. I feel on this occasion though the fall of Jordan wouldn’t lead to an Iranian sphere of influence domino effect. Uncle Sam is sending assets for a reason and they are letting everyone know loud and clear, through the not so subtle diplomacy of Sam’s big stick Carrier battle group. Make no mistake, any foreign actions or attempted interventions against Israel with its almost inevitable invasion of Gaza and that big stick will be repeatedly swung! The back channels will be buzzing and I am… Read more »
Agree. It is so educational, I learn so much reading Fs pieces.
Good response. This action smacks of Iranian input for the reasons you articulate.
Well said… all the above
Anyone can call themselves a man in 2023… anyone can put on a uniform or quasi-uniform and call themselves a soldier… Anyone can say they are doing Gods work… But real men / soldiers / people who follow God DO NOT go out of their way to target / Kidnap / Rape / Murder children… I am not a supporter of ALL the Israeli states actions, they have committed mistakes (IMO) in the past, but I will never side with terrorists. What is happening in London and New York is a new low in the appeasement of Terrorists…. Anyone would… Read more »
Eire, a nation of terrorists, fraudsters & tax dodgers, has blocked the EU from stopping aid to Hamas.
Well written, thank you.
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Farouk, I think this time it might be different with what Hamas has done. Personally I think that this will green light the Israeli government retaliation and it will be severe, very, and Hamas have bought it on themselves.
Don’t think you will get much argument from most on that score, obviously notwithstanding the hue and cry from the usual suspects.
This has the potential to escalate rapidly and not necessarily be confined to this region. Time will tell.
I agree..it depends if this tips over and destabilises some of the moderate states around Israel ( Jordan ).
Deep,
Afraid your assessment of situation is correct. WSJ reported on a meeting between Iranians and Hamas last Monday, wherein Iranians presumably greenlighted this op. Multiple intelligences services will be seeking positive confirmation. If proved the case, would fully anticipate that the Israelis will drop the hammer. 😳
Deep, I’ve had the same suspicions for many years, and I have a few
😊. I was shocked initialy, but f/me, the Yiddish play is about to start. 😢😕
The BBC coverage has been balanced. They are reporting what is happening on both sides.
agreed – certainly my experience watching the coverage and analysis.
First time for everything, I heard they have yet to refer to Hamas as a terrorist organisation though….
I’ll take your word for it, I stopped watching anything on the BBC a few years back….
They have definitely called them terrorists. 👍
Their coverage of domestic politics is generally poor, but their coverage of foreign affairs and lack of sensationalism is the best of any mainstream new source.
Please be serious, there are BBC reporters in Gaza and doing so wouldn’t be a good idea ! Got to say the scene of him on a rooftop being interviewed from London was interesting. Huge Bang, he ducks, comes up looks round, gulps and she asks him “if that was close ?” He pauses, looks at the camera man, thinks and says “yes it was”. Then for about 30 seconds he said nothing and just looked round, then he just says “I think we need to take cover”. He is a BBC trained reporter, and although it wobbled a bit,… Read more »
Missing out
“Israeli music festival: 260 bodies recovered from site where people fled in hail of bullets”
“Hamas hostages: ‘My wife and children have been taken to Gaza'”
” Israelis, united in shock, rally behind war to punish Hamas”
Simon wrote:
Talk about unlucky. The original venue for the Supermova music was in Southern Israel. But 2 days before the event that venue pulled out and the organisers manged to find a new location 5 miles off the Gaza border.
Hi Farouk, I just think there are just too many things going wrong here for it to be just a locally organised Hamas anti Israeli operation in isolation. The fact that Israel and the US either missed this completely or really screwed up, suggest to me that this has been really well coordinated by people who know how to do these things. I sincerely hope Israel holds back from going into Gaza City and confines itself to containment, blockade and fire suppression. A city of 2million being reduced to rubble is not something any sane person can want to see,… Read more »
Have to believe that the determination of the wiring diagram for this Hamas op. will be among the highest priorities of virtually every Western Intel agency, as well as many ME agencies. Hope that the investigation proceeds more rapidly than the Nordstream 2 pipeline investigation. ,🤔
No way Israel is gone in 10-20 years unless most other countries in the ME are also gone. Israel is not going to go down before it has sloshed bucketfuls of sunshine over every major Arab city in the vicinity.
Think it was the Samson operation. When the yom Kippur war looked like it was going bad. Israel pointed their nukes at Russia. If they were going down the whole world would go down with them
The world outside this conflict probably needs to brace itself to witness a scale of destruction and death close to what we have seen in Ukraine. Sadly, it may be worse……much worse! Unless Hamas has a trick up its sleeve for if, or when, Israeli land forces enter Gaza then the ramifications for its citizens could be horrific. Within a few weeks, the World’s opinions will be split and pleas for critical aid deafening.
Hamas has a trick it’s called hid behind 2 million civilians and force Israel into a conflict that will inflame the Arab world against them.
I saw a Hamas representative on sky news saying no civilians have died as they aren’t civilians. Was banging on about women sitting at a desk doing cyber. The implication being that everyone in Israel is a combatant.
The ramifications if Israel was to take the same stance for Gaza is total elimination on the population.
It’s clear Hamas if it had the means they would kill or imprisoned every single person in Israel to the last.
That is not a good position to take.
Basically they are a bunch of really unpleasant individuals who have literally othered the entire population of Israel….and so feel they can justifiably do exactly what they please to the population….there are words for such people who “other” groups of people to allow them to murder innocents in Cole blood. Its why you do have to be carful around moral equivalence… Isreali armed forces kill innocent civilians in Gaza…but they do that as a side effect of trying to destroy Hamas ( which is a terror organisation) that wants to destroy and kill Israeli citizens, but not as a primary… Read more »
Jonathan wrote: “Do I think that gives Hamas the Moral right to slaughter innocent people.. no.” Then also wrote, “But to me those deaths (civilian deaths on Gaza) are on Hamas”. I’m just going to point out to you that your long-winded and twisted logic just concluded that Israel has the moral right to slaughter innocent civilians in Gaza because it is really Hamas’ fault according to your worldview.
No I did not say Isreal has the right to slaughter civilians..you Ron added that as an assumption…I made it clear that accidental civil deaths that happened due to Israel defending itself ( and in defence you have to counter attack) are on Hamas…it would not be on Hamas if Israel simply decided to ethnically cleanse Gaza…you missed out the bit of the argument that shows the moral equivalency argument is not valid. So israel launch a Bomb at Hamas that also kills civilians…vs Hamas who literally hunted civilians down and shot them dead targeting them for terror reasons. so… Read more »
I don’t think your argument is well thought out. First of all, I think most reasonable people would acknowledge Gaza has been the largest prison camp in the world for many years now with a 16 year blockade imposed by Israel and Egypt. Now Israel has announced a siege of it: no food, no water, no electricity, and quite the bombing campaign for over 2 million people. The hospitals are all running out of fuel for their generators, already 400 children have been killed, and over 250,000 displaced with nowhere really to go. As you say, “targeting civilians with the… Read more »
Hamas are terrorists there is no excuse for murdering women and children. Videos which are all over social media have now been verified of Hamas beheading captives. This is beyond the pale , they have crossed the line into ISIS status. senior Hamas official Mahmoud Al-Zahar last December openly bragged about his plans for world domination: I won’t repeat his religious fuelled ravings but I can assure you he wasn’t only talking about Israel There is fault on both sides but the general narrative Is one that airbrushes history and and is deeply bias against the Jews. Israel is entirely… Read more »
have you heard of bomber harris….?
Hamas wanted to cause enough outrage and anger to provoke a protracted and brutal response which it seems they are going to get as there will now be overwhelming pressure within Israel to seek a decisive ‘win’…..and I can’t see what else it could be apart from a full invasion and occupation of Gaza.
Gaza not the West Bank..the West Bank is run by fatah who have renounced violent…Gaza is run by Hamas a bunch of extremist terrorists who have just proven they are extremest terrorists..who will now hide behind 2 million Palestinians all packed int Gaza.
Quickly realised my mistake and edited the post. It’s late and I’m tired!
It’s ever more important that we distinguish between the two, not just in word but in action. The EU cutting funding to both Gaza and the West Bank (as I read earlier in the comments) is a prime example of what not to do. Just as it is important to discourage the outrageous behaviour coming from Gaza, it’s equally as important the encourage the relatively calm behaviour from the West Bank.
Scarey thing is Israel has Neutron Bombs.
Israelis are angry, not insane.
I’m not to sure about Netanyahu. And just remember the last time a country used the bomb it was based on a casualty assessment of invading another country defended by fanatics. And no one says Truman was insane. Israel is very loss averse. Personally I think we are about to see Israel stop using its air power, blockade Gaza and start to use their heavy artillery for counter battery precision strike. Watch the latest BBC news for a lovely shot of an M109 lined up and ready to go. All they have to do is wait and just fire at… Read more »
Correct re Truman’s assessment of probable casualty count resulting from an invasion of the Japanese home islands. The baseline assessment was 1+M casualties, and a significant proportion would have been Brit, Aussie and Kiwi, as well as Yanks. Really distilled into a case of no viable, politically acceptable, alternative. Roosevelt undoubtedly would have consulted Churchill; did Truman? 🤔
Hi M8, Churchill was perfectly aware in advance of the Bomb being dropped in fact Truman and Churchill jointly briefed Stalin about the devices existence at the Yalta conference in Feb 1945. Uncle Joe just listened and said nothing, but then again his intelligence service had already told him all about it. Churchill was called by Truman immediately after the Trinity Test to inform him of its success, then again he would know anyway as we helped build it. You are probably aware that it was the UK and Canada that kick started the Manhattan project in 1940 and there… Read more »
The reference to Roosevelt (and Truman) was in terms of actually employing the weapon(s).
Canada had the 6th Division set up for an invasion of Japan as part to the Commonwealth Corps as well.
Thanks for the update. 👍 Would not be surprised if other Commonwealth countries were not also slated for participation (e.g., SA, India, etc.)
A Brigade from the 6th was attached with the US in the Aleutian island campaign. Most of Canada’s divisions were in Europe or central Canada. But the Pacific command had two divisions formed for west coast defence and later for offense.
Why occupy? They could do as the Sri Lankans did to the Tamal Tigers. Drive them out and flatten anyone or anywhere that doesn’t leave or surrender.
As ever a well thought out, educated and mostly spot on assessment mate!
Is this the WWIII that many have suggested over the years, that will start in the Middle East? If it can be proven, the supply of missiles by Iran, could now be considered an act of war, when you consider the number of murders and atrocities committed by hamas. If I were an Israeli, I would be demanding the total destruction of the Palestinians, their towns and villages, and totally expunge any trace of their existence from the west bank. What the majority of Arabs have never understood, are the diplomatic efforts taken over decades, by many countries, to keep… Read more »
Hamas are in Gaza, not the West Bank.
If a direct link can be found implicating Iran, then as you say, it could be considered an act of war….
Would Israel build a case and take it to the UN?
Or would Israel just unilaterally unleash hell upon Iran?
All bets are off the table now … If I lived in Tehran right now, I might start whitewashing my windows a bit quick and dusting off my old copy of protect and survive!
Israel has been waging an undeclared war inside Iran for the last 5 years or so.
Direct military covert attacks on infrastructure of a certain kind.
I would think Iran has evidence of the Israelis war like actions – which get quite a lot of publicity but they dont take direct responsibility
The train of ‘ attacking’ has long left the station on both sides
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-09/how-iran-and-israel-attack-each-other-while-avoiding-all-out-war
I don’t blame Israel one bit for attacking key infrastructure in Iran, after all I haven’t heard of the chief Rabbi standing in front of the Israeli parliament screaming “death to Iran”, while everyone jumps up and down screaming like bloodthirsty fu#kwits, or heard of people being hung from cranes in Tel-Aviv…
Or woman being imprisoned for daring to venture ‘a dangerous option’ of their own…..
Iran has ‘so’ many qualities to be admired….
History has a longer view, maybe before yours and mine time “Seventy-five years ago, Zionist militias tore through Palestinian villages, massacring the villagers and expelling those who remained alive, to clear the way for the creation of the state of Israel. An estimated 15,000 Palestinians were killed and hundreds of thousands fled their homes to live as refugees in other parts of Palestine or neighbouring countries, an event known by Palestinians as the Nakba – “the catastrophe”.” One specifically is well known “What is the Deir Yassin massacre?On April 9, 1948, just weeks before the creation of the State of… Read more »
That’s an odd one to use Dunker, these things occurred before the creation of Israel, so not really seeing your point?? “Of course its horrendous what Hamas has done this week. I don’t understand why they done it.” What’s don’t you understand Dunker? Hamas want the Israeli State destroyed and it’s citizens put to death, that’s about it, they are savage animals cut from the same cloth as the Nazis, Kamer Rouge, ISIS etc etc … Different uniforms, same animal, an ideological murderous bloodlust and hatred for their fellow man. Hamas need to absolutely destroyed as an organisation, just as… Read more »
Those militia heads became the leaders of Israel Thats the aim of the militias was to create Israel. Cant just wash your hands like that .
The massacre in the Kibbutz I dont under stand
There’s no depths of hell deep enough for Hamas, Israel have a perfect right to defend themselves and they are going to do just that with a very big stick……
You’re not actually arguing a case for Hamas are you Dunker?
Thanks for offering to read my mind but no thanks
Just that history shows that Irgun was once doing massacres and leaders of those terrorist groups – even attacking the British military and facilities- became Israel’s leaders
Just as the IRA would remember the Black and Tans ...maybe history repeats , surely someone once said that
Heres something else that happened 80 or so years ago before Israel was created , do you think that too must be forgotten and stay in the now
Your history is shaky and you may not have heard of the Holocaust, but its wasnt caused by the Arabs
I’m struggling to follow you Dunker, maybe it makes more sense in Russian??
You have been trapped by your circular argument about what didnt matter before Isreal was’ created’. Simple isnt it.
So now its create a diversion by making stuff up about me, that seems easy for you , as it has been all along
Sorry if you’re not a Russian morse tapper, but you really do come across as one unfortunately…. The way you write is so very similar to previous St Petersburg Troll farm graduates, that come and go from here. Where are you from as a matter of interest? My position, I absolutely stand behind Israel, there we go, colours pinned to the mast. To paraphrase the imortal words of that legend Bomber Harris ‘Hamas have sowed the wind and they will now reap the whirlwind’ Whatever happens to the Palestinians is on them, fair and square. How about you, where do… Read more »
Your geopolitical understanding is appalling .
Israel and Russia are more like Frenemies that would be unthinkable with most Nato countries except Turkiye
. Putin and Netanyahu have maintained contacts and El Al continued flights to Moscow like its Arab and African neighbours. Theres the situation in Syria but also Israel has a large minority of Russians , who might not support the war but dont see the country like you. In some ways Isreal is ‘nuetral ‘ over the ukriane war
Just throwing the T word around , just shows your ignorant thinking
Nice question dodging Dunker, so not from the UK?
You appear to be having an argument with yourself for some reason.
You’re clearly against Israel, it’s like pulling teeth, but your slowly showing your true colours.
Im neutral , not a keyboard warrior like you
Getting a little defensive there Dunker, get you
‘keyboard warrior’ .
What a curious thing to say, genuinely interested to know why you would say that, is it because I’ve got a pair of testicles and support Israel’s right to defend itself??
You’re ‘neutral’, you won’t condem Hamas?
Very telling indeed.
When did I not call the massacre at the kibbutz an atrocity.
It was of course as much an atrocity as similar at Deir Yassin by jewish militias
Do you wear your Stasi uniform while exposing those who arent as fervent as yourself ?
Oh lord, what are you calling me now, apparently I’m part of the defunct East German security forces ??
Again, it’s possibly a case of lost context in translation, so Ill give you that and pretend to be horribly insulted old chap.
I suggest you take a tablet, grab a cold compress and go have some quiet time in a dark room Dunker, hopefully not the Kremlin basement.
No more chatting to you Dunker, I don’t want to be responsible for another unfortunate soul heading to the front lines for a HIMARS handshake.
Dont like it when you get it in return- assumptions about background or origin- do you.
Just stick to what is said my friend
Goodbye, farewell, au revoir, auf Wiedersehen Goodbye 👋
you …you… you ..you..
4 assumptions of what im thinking from our thought police friend.
And again, because it clearly isn’t sinking in yet…
“Goodbye, farewell, au revoir, auf Wiedersehen Goodbye 👋
The reality is a Iran Isreal war would be pretty impossible to prosecute as they are 1000miles apart and you have to cross two nations to get to each other…it’s why they have not engaged in a war of destruction before this.
Morning Jonathan, it’s long been said that Saudi Arabia actually allowed Israel to cross their airspace during their 1981 reactor strike on Iran
I don’t think Saudi Arabia would stand in the way of Iran being malleted, they hate the regime in Tehran with a vengeance.
Hi John that is true and I suspect If Iran are evidenced to be involved ( which I suspect everyone knows they are) then there will be a number of punishment raids ( and as you Israel can get their for that)…what I was think of was an actual war, not a number of armed interventions..I don’t think a full blown war can be prosecuted between the two nations..without the nations in between joining the war on one side or the other. Even a navel campaign your talking 3000 miles and the Suez Canal between them…so punishment yes….war not really… Read more »
Unless of course Israel treats Iran to a bucket of sunshine, your one stop war…..
The likelihood of that is now far higher than at any othe time in Israel’s modern history as Israel hasn’t been deeply wounded like this in 50 years.
They are rightly ‘very’ angry and vengeful at the moment, a proven link to Iran and all bets are off!
I don’t believe Israel would go nuclear unless it was an existential issue ( such as the imminent collapse of the Israeli defence forces)…unless is was used for an existential issue they would become instant international pariahs and the U.S. would end its support, they would suffer internal sanctions… it would likely spell the end of Israel to be honest as any and all of the Arab states aligned to the U.S. would be looking to end the Israeli state and they would be cut off internationally. it’s very unlikely anyone is going to forgive the first state to go… Read more »
Excellent points Jonathan, but the Israeli political leadership and military/intelligence head shed hasn’t been under this much sustained pressure to act since the darkest days yom kippur war.
I doubt anything is off the table….
An additional factor in Israeli calculations re Iran could well be the current and projected enrichment levels of Iranian uranium supply. Open source reports indicate minimal lag time to develop a weapon. Thus, if Israelis can conclusively document Iranian intent…🤔😳😱
That is a very good point, if Isreal linked in a nuclear threat with this appalling attack to Iran..I think potentially they could do something profoundly foolish ( anyone unleashing a nuclear weapon is a fool tbh).
even so this is such a horrific attack if Israel finds evidence of Iranian influence I suspect the response will be very significant ( well as much as you can against an enemy 1000miles away over other neutrals nations).
Of course a bucket of sunshine could go off at a suspected nuclear site in Iran. Then Israel says “not us gov” & points to dodgy building standards of the mad mullahs.
It’s quite possible, you can guarantee Israel has a version of the proverbial KGB suitcase device of Cold War fame.
A small sub tactical nuke could well be framed as an accident….
Plausible deniability and all that.
JC wrote: It’s quite possible, you can guarantee Israel has a version of the proverbial KGB suitcase device of Cold War fame. Israel has the Samson option , and during the early days of the Yom kippur war, when Israel was surprised on two fronts and was losing ground Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized a nuclear alert and ordered 13 atomic bombs be readied for use by missiles and aircraft. That move is the main reason why the US ordered a huge airlift of supplies (whilst the airlift got all the news, the sealift supplied much more) which we know as Operation… Read more »
Saudi Arabia didn’t allow Israeli Aircraft to overfly it’s territory in 1981,it was a combination of luck and guile that enabled that mission to happen.With the diplomatic efforts of China regarding rapprochement of SA and Iran i wouldn’t count on any help from them now now either. – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera
UN would be a waste of time 2 veto votes on the spot.
Hello Farouk,
Re ‘Meanwhile in Manchester the local LGBT crowd have been protesting in support of…Hamas’
I have just done some searches. Can you offer any source for your claim?
There are many mainstream LGB that want to distance themselves from the TQIA+ lunatics.
And rather than provide a source Farouk has deleted his post!
Interesting?
Simply retaliating against Hamas and inflicting more casualties than they have suffered won’t achieve anything. Despite an almost total dependence on foreign aid, the population of Gaza keeps growing, with more than half aged under 19. In ten years, another generation of unemployed youths will be ready to repeat the current onslaught. So Israel has to do more than conduct a punitive operation. I suspect that one option being considered is to drive the entire population across the Egyptian border ( for a mix of reasons Egypt does not want to get back the territory it ruled until 1967). This… Read more »
An Israeli advisory says the Egypt border has been closed.
But the Israeli army advice was clear. There will be immense pressure on Egypt to open the border for humanitarian reasons. To prevent a repeat of the Hamas attacks, something more lasting than a punitive ground expedition will be needed. Israel won’t want to occupy the strip long term (and become constant targets) unless the area is emptied of its population.
We may be about to see a wave of refugees on a scale similar to 1948.
Yes agreed, many young people, stemming from high fertility rate, ready to take revenge for current chaos. Hopeless cycle. 4.5 birthrate a multiple of despair.
Don’t sit on the fence Airborne, tell us what you really think 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Magic Grandpa yesterday would no say anything bad about his Hammas mates…even when pressed. If anyone supported him in his election campaign its going to come back and bite them…
Honestly, I’m just fed up with the entire region. Let them kill each other.
We should help our sole, somewhat decent ally there, Jordan, and that’s it.
Gotta say I’m disgusted with how many commenters here are calling for genocide against the Palestinians..
It is of course exactly what Hamas and Iran wants, I have to say listening to Israeli officials this morning stating that “Gaza share a border with Egypt” is very telling indeed. It’s very sad that some communities within the UK were flying Palestinian flag as news of the atrocities against Israel came in, the hatred flows two ways, it always has. They have totally isolated Gaza and started bombing, they are clearly going to force the population of Gaza to flee to Egypt through desperation. Hamas might have made a massive error in taking hostages, in the mistaken belief… Read more »
I think the real question is: will Israel stop at Gaza or use this as an opportunity to do the same in the West Bank and the Golan Heights, which could upset Jordan.
Personally I think Iran’s endgame is to get the US out of the middle East by disrupting the uneasy relationship, via the US, between Israel and its neighbours.
I don’t think they will, the West Bank is much bigger and will bring in Jordan to the dispute…
Egypt will just have to suck it up I’m afraid, with millions of migrant refugees on the move, a litteral biblical sea of humanity walking over the boarder…
Hamas has sealed Gaza’s fate and must take the responsibility for what comes next.
I don’t think, after decades of siege, that Israel can entirely escape responsibility for this situation.
How’s the echo chamber treating you bud?
Perhaps you can ask duker?
Sorry I remember the name but I’m not getting the reference. They’re another person staying rent free?
Perhaps we could play bot bingo on this site? Guess which country they are in. Russia, China, North Korea, Iran. Have I missed any?
Honestly I find it’s better to actually fact check their BS (usually not hard), rather than just trying to cancel them, otherwise you’re just letting the team down
Hamas have made their choice and sealed their fate, with that murderous rampage of rape and torture the other day, butchering hundreds of civilians, woman and children, they have built their own gallows and the hangman is waiting in the form of the unstoppable IDF war machine…. The end of Gaza is squarely on Hamas and Iran. Anything less than the physical removal of Gaza from the map, will be seen as weakness by the Israeli population at this point and unacceptable. The gloves are off, call it ethnic cleansing if you like, it’s going to happen I am sure.… Read more »
I do wonder though. Hamas planned this and knew what Israel’s response would be. What do they have lying in wait for the IDF and will it spark war on other borders?
Or did they plan something much smaller. A border attack, before they knew it every man and his dog turned up bring there own guns, found no resistance, happened upon a festival and the whole thing went way to well!
Good question. The US has persuaded Qatar to block the Iran’s access to the $6B fund given as part of the agreement between Iran and the US. They clearly believe Iran has reneged on the nuclear deal and is behind the Hamas attack. Its interesting that the BBC refers to Hamas as ‘militants’ rather than terrorists. A terrorists is someone who uses violence in pursuit of a political objective; e.g. a political solution to the displacement of the Palestinian people resulting from the creation of the state of Israel. A militant is simply another name for a fighter. What the… Read more »
T This so called siege is the biggest lie peddled by the likes of Hamas in which to allow them to play the victim card. Israel allows in convoys everyday Its easy to debunk, do a google on Gaza supermarkets, they are better stocked than many UK ones. In fact, it is well reported that the vast majority of concrete shipped into Gaza was used to build tunnels and not homes 1000s travel each year to Mecca for the Haj, its well reported. 100s of Gazans are treated inside Israeli Hospitals every week. In fact Ismail Haniyeh’s (leader of Hamas… Read more »
I completely agree it wasn’t a siege but it sure looks like one now. Israel has closed up every thing, all the crossings as has Egypt, no Water, Fuel, Food or Medical Supplies. That’s a siege plain and simple. What makes it worse is that years ago the Israeli settlers outside the Gazza strip needed water for irrigation and decided to drill extra deep wells to extract it (some are 1000 to 1500m, that resulted in the shallow Aquafers under Gazza drying up so the locals are now 100% reliant on Israeli suppplied water. However it was also a bit… Read more »
“do a google on Gaza supermarkets”
I have, I’ll let you know when I find a picture of any fresh food..
T wrote:
“”I have, I’ll let you know when I find a picture of any fresh food””
Didnt look very hard then, as the net is full of pictures of Gazan supermarkets (esp during Ramadan) Twitter and YT have plenty of videos of people shopping, then there are the stalls.
Oh don’t worry, I’m not the only one not looking very hard: foodstuffs have been allowed in since 2010 (However anything necessary to make Gaza self sufficient is not.)
But important to note that it is Israel that decides what comes in, not the Palestinians.
I honestly don’t know how you thought you could deny the blockade but this is getting silly now.
It’s time for you to return the favour and Google ‘Iron Wall’.
There is no reason to The West Bank is run by Fatah, fatah is a political group and Isreal and fatah can work together…unfortunately for the population of Gaza it is run by Hamas and they are an organisation that don’t want to negotiate..they simply want the complete destruction of the Israeli state and are willing to use the population of Gaza as a tool to destroy Israel.
I feel you are right..but unfortunately I think Hamas actually want Israel to do this…they don’t believe in negotiations or political compromise they only believe in jihad of the sword and the total destruction of Israel..they will accept any level of loss to achieve that….there are no civilians for those who are following the jihad of the sword.
Depressing isn’t it…
Looks like Israel will utterly raise Northern Gaza to the ground fist, the migration of humanity south, putting so much pressure on Egypt to open the boarder, they simply won’t have a choice….
The problem is there is a very good reason Egypt closed the Boarders and that’s because Hamas are almost as much a threat to Egypt as they are to Israel..the Sinai province of IS and Hamas work hand in glove..and having a load of Hamas extremisms in the Sinai reinforcing IS is not something Egypt can tolerate..they have made it very Clear that Hamas is Israel’s problem and they want nothing to do with it…it’s why it’s very unlikely you will hear Egypt do much more than make a few noises when Isreal go over the top….I think what you… Read more »
Totally agree, however the wider Muslim world will begin to heap huge pressure on Egypt to ‘do something’ i.e open the boarder, as the humanitarian crisis goes critical. On a wider note, I don’t feel that neutrality is an option here, this is after all the worst terrorist atrocity against a Western Country since 9/11. Options, a NATO deployment to some of Israel’s border areas ( a sort of KFOR type deployment), specifically Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt, in a limited defensive capacity to prevent attacks from from those quarters with strict rules of engagement. All parties understanding that an attack… Read more »
I don’t think we will see western boots on the ground..unless it all travels south….Isreal is able to manage Hamas..the problem is how to engage Hamas when it hides in the most populated place on earth…But what I think you are seeing is a very clear message from the west that any state intervention against Israel will be met with a state intervention from the west….hopefully that will 1) keep the Arab nations from not being pushed into another Arab Israeli war by some sectors of their society..2) Egypt may actually need to ask for a hand keeping the lid… Read more »
T opined: “Gotta say I’m disgusted with how many commenters here are calling for genocide against the Palestinians..”” Its simply a knee jerk reaction spoken during the heat of the moment at the sheer level of barbarity on display. We can condemn Israel as much as we want, the simple fact remains what Hamas did to its victims (rape, murder, behead babies, display their bodies) and then upload what they did to social media for maximum publicity was designed simply to enrage the Israelis, which would allow them to play the victim card and possibly other state actors to… Read more »
F frothed:
“the simple fact remains what Hamas did to its victims (rape, murder, behead babies, display their bodies) and then upload what they did to social media for maximum publicity was designed simply to enrage the Israelis, which would allow them to play the victim card and possibly other state actors to join in.”
I agree, so if what Hamas wants is to enrage is into turning a blind eye to what happens next why are you playing into their hands?
T wrote: “”so if what Hamas wants is to enrage is into turning a blind eye to what happens next why are you playing into their hands?”” Do be so kind as to find any post of mine where I express any form of desire to see Hamas, Gaza or anybody else for that matter wiped off the face of the map . I haven’t in fact, I’ve kept a pretty neutral stance and just posted the facts, I may not like what Hamas has done, but ive kept it pretty clean. If you have to put words in my… Read more »
Apologies, somehow I got the impression you had an issue with me being disgusted that people were calling for a genocide in Gaza..
To be fair Farouk and Tomartyer, this situation is absolutely horrifying, any right thinking person should be deeply disturbed at what’s happening and I think we all are. We can all agree on that point.
I think if we step back from the emotional response though, we can see the direction of travel here. Israel will slowly steamroll and
(possibly) level every building, as they push south to the Egyptian boarder.
It’s going to happen, the Gaza strip will be erased from the map. I don’t see any other options for Israel?
As much as I hate it I can’t see any other permanent solution (short of a Palestinian uprising against Hamas) as long as Hamas is calling for the destruction of Israel.
It’s become a war of annihilation on both sides and the worst is yet to come.
Its going to be hell on earth in the Gaza strip… Following on and down the line, what lessons will Israel take from this disaster? I think Mossad will be far more proactive, as will the IDF SF community and the Airforce, now the gloves are off they will take the fight to the enemy with renewed vigor wherever they can reach them. I’m sure Lebanon, Jordan and what passes for governance in Syria these days will be informed of the dire consequences of allowing attacks from their boarders… Iran, above all can expect serious payback…. No point worrying about… Read more »
Which may end up being a pyrrhic victory if their methods (or rather what is reported by the media) turn Western opinion against them, they’ll have to be careful not to end up overstretched with many enemies and few friends.
The overwhelming power of the IDF may prove to be a weakness if it bites off more than Israel can chew.
how can we understand the turmoil going on in this region which has little chance of resolution. as a side note, conflict areas experience higher birth rates as a consequence and driver of more misery.
Gaza Population 2023 (worldpopulationreview.com) The population is also the youngest in the region, with a birth rate of over 4 children to every woman. 40% of the Palestinian population is under 14 years old
Every bomb that lands on Gaza, and every innocent person there that gets killed or injured is 100% the fault of Hamas. What do people expect? That Israel should just roll over and accept these attacks ???
As I said before Israel would get a lot more sympathy if it pulled back to 1967 boarders. Hamas is a terrorist organisation plane and simple. There was one election in Gaza 16 years ago and the territory is now sealed off and left to be run by an unelected terrorist organisation. These people have been living in the worlds largest refugee camp for half a century. What’s happening to innocent Israeli civilians is terrible and can’t be justified. But the Israeli government and it’s illegal settlement plan in the West Bank is atleast in part to blame and the… Read more »
Israel would still be attacked (and hated)even if they ceded ground back to the 1967 borders.
It would make no difference as most sympathisers dream of reinstating pre-1947 mandatory Palestine.
Hamas and Hezbollah are fanatical, they will not stop until Israel exists no more and there are no Jewish people left in that part of the world.
Unfortunately, many pro-Palestine activists in the West share the same view.
And once the extremists have ethnically cleansed the Jewish people from that region the Christians (and other non-Muslims) would be be next target.
After that, it would be Shia vs Sunni.
I was just reading up on the same situation writ small the other side of the border (Sinai insurgency). The Egyptians have used increasingly harsh measures to get rid of the extremists over the last 20 years. The mujahideen and Muslim Brotherhood gave way to ISIS/ISIL, and the situation is no better. To those who suggest the soution is for Israel to withdraw or stop the blockade, consider what’s happening there. The Army of Islam smuggles members into the Gaza Strip for training, then returns them to the Sinai Peninsula to engage in terrorist and jihadist activities Wiki. The situation… Read more »
I really hope in the punishment of Hamas the people of the West Bank don’t get punished also. The West Bank while not perfect has stopped violence for a long time now and should be rewarded.
If the West Bank gives up on the non violence that is a massive headache nobody wants. Showing Gaza’s residents how much better things could be is important especially now.
Indeed fatah have made real moves towards healing the scars and getting a two state solution that works…but then fatah was never about religion it was about .it’s such a tragedy for the people of Gaza they put themselves behind Hamas who are and always have been a bunch of violent extremist terrorists….who simply hate and don’t want a two state solution.
Interesting the government have moved the Lyme bay and Argus to the east med in support of Israel…I’m surprised I did not think that the UK government would provide such a large statement of support.
Is it direct support or more of a visible ‘caution; to others not to get involved for fear of this escalating even further geopolitically/geographically.
At the same time you have seen both US & UK urging Israel to show some caution and/or restraint in the way they implement their objectives in responding to the terorist actions shown by Hamas.
There is obvioulsy a belief this could become far worse than it already is so diplomatically its a bit of a minefield.
Indeed, Hamas is still pushing Israel…they are still actively firing rockets into Israel, fired literally thousands so far….the problem is Hamas is hiding under the civilian population on purpose…they what Israel to be seen as going to far..as Hamas want a regional war..bringing in Egypt, Jordan etc… Isreal has to defend itself against Hamas and Hamas are using the population of Gaza as a shield…Hamas are never coming to the table in a meaningful way as they believe in jihad and the destruction of Israel..they don’t have political aims just extremist religious aims….Israel has become more and more extreme itself..it’s… Read more »