The International Criminal Court (ICC) has issued an arrest warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin based on allegations of war crimes.
The ICC asserts that he bears responsibility for the illegal deportation of children from Ukraine to Russia, among other offences, which took place in Ukraine during Russia’s full-scale invasion starting on 24 February 2022.
“Mr Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, born on 7 October 1952, President of the Russian Federation, is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population (children) and that of unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation (under articles 8(2)(a)(vii) and 8(2)(b)(viii) of the Rome Statute). The crimes were allegedly committed in Ukrainian occupied territory at least from 24 February 2022.
There are reasonable grounds to believe that MrĀ Putin bears individual criminal responsibility for the aforementioned crimes, (i) for having committed the acts directly, jointly with others and/or through others (articleĀ 25(3)(a) of the Rome Statute), and (ii) for his failure to exercise control properly over civilian and military subordinates who committed the acts, or allowed for their commission, and who were under his effective authority and control, pursuant to superior responsibility (article 28(b) of the Rome Statute).
Ms Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova, born on 25 October 1984, Commissioner for Childrenās Rights in the Office of theĀ President of the Russian Federation, is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population (children) and that of unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation (under articles 8(2)(a)(vii) and 8(2)(b)(viii) of the Rome Statute).
The crimes were allegedly committed in Ukrainian occupied territory at least from 24 February 2022. There are reasonable grounds to believe that Ms Lvova-Belova bears individual criminal responsibility for the aforementioned crimes, for having committed the acts directly, jointly with others and/or through others (article 25(3)(a) of the Rome Statute).”
You can read the warrant here.
Is there a reward?
Could be ļ»æšļ»æ
Will they pay up for just his head?
Are you lads up for a jolly to Moscow.
Not a bad idea at all! Alternatively, perhaps add Mad Vlad’s name to the FBI’s ‘Most Wanted’ list, usually has a substantial associated reward. Might motivate some of the loyal, entrepreneurially inclined, Orcs. š¤š
Anticipate being hammered for these ideas, but what the hell…here goes: W/in the U.S there is provision in law for Bounty Hunters (in the old West the terminology was often stated as ‘Wanted, Dead or Alive). Offer a large enough reward, then stand back. Could internationalize the competition, $50-$100M reward probably sufficient, in successful claimant’s choice of bearer bonds, gemstones, precious metals, various currencies, etc. Would probably forestall hundreds of thousands of additional casualties, in UKR, hundreds of billions in additional property damage, and possibly a nuclear conflict. Yes, this could infringe on someone’s sense of law, jurisprudence, motherhood, apple… Read more Ā»
the traditional terminology may be ‘Truth, Justice and the American Way.’
Indeed!ļ»æšļ»æļ»æšļ»æ
Got to laugh at how the wonderful BBC (of which I renewed my TV licence the other week for Ā£159) reports this ground breaking news:
https://i.postimg.cc/L4Nhftbr/Opera-Snapshot-2023-03-17-155708-www-bbc-co-uk.png
Ive deleted the BBC news app and switched to The Guardian. I donāt feel the BBC represents me at all now.
I did that years ago, but now I don’t feel The Guardian represents me at all, seems they shift further to the left each year. So I switched to Reuters.
TBF the BBC represents the BBC & its own little soundbox, shrilly trying to brainwash everyone how right & brilliant they are when they’re not a a patch on 40 years ago. Why do they keep trying to tell us how unbiased they are with such blatant an agenda & bias?
A few months ago there was this whole storm on twitter with the BBC and it’s fans pushing a “Look how much good stuff you get for your TV licensce! All this great stuff the BBC puts out!”
They didn’t like it when you pointed out that if it’s all so good you can make it opt in and then the product will sell itself…
I donāt get it. Are they not reporting exactly what happened? What am I missing.
Personally I use a load of news sources and find the bbc to be pretty good. Kids watch quite a bit of cbbc and CBeebies.
BBC is excellent I feel people get frustrated by it being Impartial and as for other content the BBC is the best and exporting streams in this country.
To be honest I think that the fact that the BBC annoys people on the left and on the right might show that it’s succeeding in being impartial.
Yes exactly , I’ve said that before.
Good Morning MS. Wish they would bring back Liliburlero and the Union Jack as a headerļ»æšļ»æ Sad though that they let Lineker off the hook
Its the BBC doing its job being impartial , we do not want the American system of left and right news orgs where the Americans are becoming divided even with the MAGA lot supporting Putin thanks to Tucker Carson delusions , puts it all in perspective.
Anyone know how this may affect him travelling around the world? Just wondering if any country he visits is obligated to retain him. Doubt they would mind. It would be WWIII if a western country arrested him by force.
Yeah, I’m sure the Chinese, Indians or Africans will have him in handcuffs ASAP.
Rob wrote: “”Anyone know how this may affect him travelling around the world? Just wondering if any country he visits is obligated to retain him. Doubt they would mind. It would be WWIII if a western country arrested him by force.”” Wonāt affect him one bit, we saw exactly that with Sudans leader Omar al-Bashir whom the ICC indited in 2009 and over the next 7 years he visited 22 countries 75 times (Including China twice) despite being deposed in 2019 and with the new Sudanese government saying they would hand him over in 2020, the man with the most… Read more Ā»
This will effect him as putin loved being courted by western countries. Look at all the events he attended the last 10 years that are now off the list.
Doubt heāll be travelling much. His paranoia is such that since the war started heās been too frightened to fly even domestically. Instead he travels around Russia using an armoured train that it disguised to look like a regular passenger train.
So…guessing that Disney World is not on Mad Vlad’s list of probable vacation destinations for 2023? š¤š
Going on their past behaviour, the Disney Corporation would probably welcome him with open arms! ļ»æšļ»æ
Interesting. I did not know that.
Apparently he is paranoid of secret NATO weapons that might strike with zero notice. He thinks these are what took down the kirchin bridge.
Sean,
Another instance of life imitating art? Reminiscent, perhaps of (Strelnikov’s sp?) armoured train in Dr. Zhivago (all that is needed to complete the scene is the train positioned at the UKR border in order to shell an innocent village)? š¤š³
One can but dream of Putinās armoured train coming within shelling distance of the Ukrainian borderā¦ š
Hopefully weād find out then if itās armour was as laughable as that on T72s š
šš
It won’t. The shit holes be travels to don’t acknowledge the ICC and won’t certain him.
Interestingly Biden admtted that the US did not recognise the ICC – did he ‘mis-speak’?
Nope! Like many International bodies and agreements, the US only believes in what the US wants. Which is a shame. Thou can’t be all high and mighty when you still ignore International Treaties, bodies and laws.
Iām not sure this was the correct time to do this to be honest..you want to leave a way out of the war for Russiaā¦this will just mean Putin will have no place to go and it will be sold to the Russian population as a direct attack on Russia..probably should have waited until the whole thing was over before doing this.
If Russia wants a way out, it can just declare a ceasefire leading to grown up talks. Until that happens, then bring on all the extra pressure on Putin.
Trouble is this is not really pressure..it just supplies more to the Russia as victim of western attack dialogue..donāt get me wrong Iām all for actual pressure..more and harsher sanctions all the way, more weapons to Ukraine..this though is not it the time for this is after the war ends.
It may also be a signal to the countries that have been reluctant to choose sides so far. They now know, if they didn’t already, that they are dealing with an international pariah if they were tempted by e.g. cheap Russian gas. And that it could have downsides further down the road.
If I really thought that Peter I would think it was worth it. But the global south does not think like that, to them bodies like the Hage are generally considered Western or specifically US hegemonic tools of controlā¦They will not suddenly change their views over thisā¦.infact it may make some of them even less trustful of the westā¦most of the world is not liberal democracies and does not agree with or even like our moral bedrocks. What talks is āas alwaysā money ( soft powerā¦.when we say soft power we really mean money and wealth) as well as the… Read more Ā»
I don’t disagree, but if anything, I think it’s time that the West actually stands up for its values. It probably is nothing more than signal value, but an important signal nonetheless.
As for Putin and escape routes, I think we are past that stage. I can’t see any negotiated peace scenario that will save Putin’s face.
To be honest Peter I donāt think think itās about saving putins face..I agree we are long beyond that..itās more about the how it ends gameā¦the only good options are if the Russian shoots Putin in the head ( I donāt think thatās going to happen as he has a happy little cult going, just like hitler did) or We make Putin cut and run with his moneyā¦which I think is one way outā¦for that I would say we need to leave doors openā¦.we can always grasp him and charge him with war crimes laterā¦The bad option and I think… Read more Ā»
Putin is like Caligula. He has absolute power & will kill anyone near him, that challenges him. This will go on for a while, then the survivors realise they will only get through by coming together & killing Putin/Caligula. History repeats, or rhymes as they say in Russia.
Why would Ukraine agree to a ceasefire and talks? Russia has taken a significant swathe of Ukraine; do you think they would be happy to create a cease-fire line that might become a new de facto border? Grown up talks can only begin once Russian troops have been removed.
When the conflict had just started, the first peace talks fell apart as Putin wanted Ukraine to agree to everything he wanted, while he refused to give them anything. There is no point in peace talks while it is all one way. Once Putin grows up & is willing to make concessions, then there is a point in talking.
Hear hear!
A criminal is a criminal. A crime is a crime. This one like others perpetrated by Russians is horrific.
Not saying itās not a crime and Putin needs to get his.But and this is the important thing, nothing should be done that gives Putin extra ammunition for his āthe west is attacking Russia dialogueā unless it needs to be done to for a very specific aim..preserving Ukrainian sovereignty and removing Russian troops from Ukraineā¦without triggering world war threeā¦thatās the mission..so only things that clearly brings closer the end of the war, Ukrainian victory and the end of Putinā¦so Sanctions that amount to a complete western blockade of goods to and from Russia from the west..yep..more weapons to help Ukraine… Read more Ā»
Very well said. There is so much contradictory propaganda being spread around, that accepting anything on face valued is fraught with danger. Ultimately that danger in this situation is nuclear war.
For all we know, these kids could the the orphans of ethnic Russian orcs, killed by shelling from Ukrainian orcs. Being evacuated for their own safety and placed with Russian speaking relatives or adopted by families.
To be honest I have no doubt in my mind that Putin is a war criminal and deserves to be in front of the Hage but there is a time and placeā¦and thatās when the war is over, Ukraine is safe and nuclear Armageddon is back in the box.
I can’t argue with that. He deserves it for his supporting role in the actions of the east German Stasi. I’m just not so sure about this latest claim. it sounds dubious. Have you read some of the other more detailed reports.
Hi George, yes it seems a specifically focused set of charges. Thatās I think one of the issues, they needed to have waited for all of the War crimes evidence and issued this warrant in one go at the end of the war when all the evidence has been collected. The actual case referred to The Hague was for actions from 2013ā¦.also generally speaking The Hague takes many many years before getting this farā¦as an example itās been investigating the mass rape of the DRC for around 19 yearsā¦ā¦it all seems rushed and to be honest walking into the hands… Read more Ā»
Agreed. More shenanigans to feed the media circus and spur further donations to Ukraine.
To be honest ( and I may be naive) I just think it was wanting to do the ārightā thing that was done in a ham fisted way..probably more siloed thinking than anything else..bit of an own goal.
Putin is Russia’s problem. It’s upto Russia to evict him from power. Most likely via a coup with much bloodshed. In order for the Russian’s to rise up against Mad Vlad they will need to be feeling a lot of pain. Via ongoing huge casualties in their war of aggression and conquest in Ukraine and economic pain via sanctions regimen.
Interestingly we really don’t want fellow dictator president Xi throwing Putin an economic or military lifeline
Unfortunately I donāt think Russia has a problem with Putin, the majority seem to support him, with a minority being the voice of reasonā¦unfortunately the most dangerous authoritarians of the nationalist bend have a nasty habit of taking their population into the madness ( control the message and in the end you can start to control peopleās world view)ā¦ So the rather nasty truth is Putin is not Russiaās problemā¦Russia is Europes problemā¦Iām not really sure we have much option other than a very long term strategy of containmentā¦unless we get lucy and a collapse of the Russian army in… Read more Ā»
Russia can stop this any time it chooses. Invading peaceful neighbours & annexing their territories, murdering their people, devestating their facilities & homes etc has to have consequences. Nuclear power or not. Making nuclear threats should also be a war crime.
Yes Frank but this is the real world and Russia is under the control of a brutal dictator..who does not give a shit all he cares about is his own power and wealthā¦one of the only ways to win this and get a permanent piece is if Putin is put in a position that he has to run with his money and thinks he can get awayā¦..my point is how does this help..if it does not it should not be doneā¦the west is face to face with a madman who can end humanity..we need to ensure his finger is off… Read more Ā»
These are shameful comments. Is this the usual poster Jonathan? You are 100% advocating for One Man Russian Nuclear Blackmail to be 100% effective. “Nothing should be done that gives Putin ammunition for his ‘the West is attacking Russia’??” Are you kidding me?? The Russians are professional gaslighters that create their own realities out of thin air. Lavrov said last week they were attacked and that is the reason for the war. They create their own ammunition Jonathan it is called military grade psychological warfare. Hundreds of thousands of Ukranians have been forcibly deported to remote regions of Russia. This… Read more Ā»
They are not shameful, shameful is saying that he has not committed the crime..Iām taking about the real threat to the continued existence to our entire civilisationā¦the bringing to justice of any one individual is utterly and completely meaningless when taken into the context of the loss of lives of almost every human being on this planet and make no mistake if Putin decides heās done and there is no way out he can and may decide to end everything and everyoneā¦.that is the simple and totally appalling reality we face at presentā¦others in his situation have chose the route… Read more Ā»
In the 1930s, it was called appeasement.
No itās notā¦the Hage thing is quite frankly nothing and distraction from the task at hand.. as they cannot prosecute himā¦appeasement is doing nothing to prevent aggressionā¦so .not supplying weapons to Ukraine would be appeasement or getting Ukraine to ask for a peace that sacrificed its borders thatās appeasement and actually the biggest bit of appeasement that got us into this mess has happened over that last 8 yearsā¦when the west stood back and let Ukraine get invaded the first timeā¦the Hage not issue this at this time would not have been appeasement as it did not have to do… Read more Ā»
Totally agree with you. This is actually the last thing we need. Always give a cornered rat a way out. We can deal with him at a later date when he doesnāt have the protection of a state nuclear arsenal. All this does is feed into the Russian western oppression narrative.
The only shameful comments are from people who canāt think of resolving a complicated problem more intelligently that the fight-bang-fight method of the man himself. Putin needs to be disgraced in the eyes of his own people and allies, an ICC ruling is just ammunition for his propaganda machine.
Oh dear Jonathan I don’t have time to read all that this morning and I shouldn’t have called your comments shameful so I do apoogize. But let me just say what you are missing is that, in light of the Russian’s constant threats, you essentially have no point. Earlier in the thread you advocated for sanctions that amount to a blockade of western goods to Russia, the supply of more weapons and money to Ukraine, all of which the Russians (and Medvedev) have previously warned us could lead to a wider war and perhaps nuclear war with NATO. But you… Read more Ā»
I wonder if it is a bit of pressure to lean Ru towards getting rid of Putin by some method.
I expect there are a whole bundle of sealed warrants.
You might be on to something. One reason for Russian failure, is that the high ups are playing off each other, not wanting their rival to get ahead.
The ICC is not a political outfit, though, but a judicial one.
Their focus is on war crimes. Putin has committed numerous war crimes and that’s what they are focused on.
But and this is the important bit when to publish this or keep it sealed was and is a political decisionā¦they very clearly stated they had an internal discussion on whether it was appropriate to keep the decision sealed or make it publicā¦.that was and is a political type decision.
Goodoļ»æšļ»æ
I’ll just point out that the ICC is not recognized by the US, Russia, Ukraine, China and others.
Maybe the Russians will pass a ‘just in case law’ like the US did in 2018/9 allowing the President to authorise military action to release any US official and military held anywhere, including the Hague. The American Service Members Protection Act.
It arose as the US didn’t want any of their less savory Afghanistan activities prosecuted as threatened by the ICC, who quite naturally backed down after the US also threatened the ICC judges.
How surprising. More whataboutery and deflection by the resident war crime cheerleader. What due process did the executed and raped civilians in Bucha etc get from the Russian military units that carried out those crimes?
It’s not necessary for war criminals like Putin to recognise the court that tries them. It’s about justice for the victims. Not that you’d give a shit.
I’m pretty certain all the German ranking Nazis after WW2 who were trialed at Nuremberg said they didn’t recognise the authority of the court. It simply doesn’t matter whether Russia, China, the Martians recognise the ICC or not. The very fact they have issued an arrest warrant for a serving head of state is a very powerful message and clearly the ICC has enough evidence to prosecute Putin for war crimes, crimes against humanity, state sponsored genocide, massed rape, kidnapping and forced deportations of civilians and children. Then also guilty of all the inevitable crimes inflicted on those kidnapped and… Read more Ā»
JIMK wrote: āāMaybe the Russians will pass a ājust in case lawā like the US did in 2018/9 allowing the President to authorise military action to release any US official and military held anywhere, including the Hague. The American Service Members Protection Act.āā The American Service Members Protection Act.āā Was signed into law by President George W. Bush on August 2, 2002 and not 2018/19 as you allude to. JIMK wrote: āāIt arose as the US didnāt want any of their less savory Afghanistan activities prosecuted as threatened by the ICC, who quite naturally backed down after the US also… Read more Ā»
Thanks for your work on this. I got the date of the law wrong but it is there ready for use if needed. The ICC/Afgahnistan investigation dates were not, as you point out in 2018/9 but in 2020. This is what it was all about https://www.cfr.org/article/iccs-probe-atrocities-afghanistan-what-know
Oh dear oh dear oh dear, Farouk has ripped you a new arse once more, and instead of debating your point, you do more diversion and try to deflect the issueā¦.which originated from you! Muppet!
He is a nonce bent criminal, who you love, adore and crack one off to on your 2022 Putin calendar. Your 2023 version is yet to arrive, as itās hard to get some still shots as he continues to shake like a shitting dog! But never mind, youāve got a back up Jeremy Corbyn one and an old, crusty, tissue clad 2014 one of George Gallowayā¦ā¦ā¦..Do us a favour take a fucking tea break from your appeasement, propaganda and overt support for this illegal invasion! We all laugh at your sad sad efforts, as it seems you believe we donāt… Read more Ā»
My doctor has forbidden me from reading any more of your comments for fear I will die laughing rolling on the floor.
Barry, you are far to kind I just write what most think…….!!!
You don’y even try to disguise your enthusiastic support for this dreadful regime. When the end comes, and it will, I just hope the I.C.C. gets to Putin before the Russian people whose young men he has slaughtered by the thousands for nothing more than a warped fantasy.
Your band of murderers and rapist can take Bakhmut, some how I canāt see them storming The Hague. š
I must admit I try avoid reading the delusional shi*te you post and even more refrain from responding to it but as you have posted several times on this article its just bemusing. Why do you actually waste time trying to spread ‘the message’ on a website that you literally get torn apart on everytime you post? Are you the pinnacle of posters in the unit you work for so are expected to pitch to the hardest audiences? Im just curious how it works, not that you will admit as you cant actually answer a yes/no question let alone something… Read more Ā»
Allow me to answer for him, he has to keep plugging away otherwise his supervisor will put him forward for front line duties as a member of the low flying tank turret display team! Hence the continued desperation and nonsense he posts!
About time. Now let’s give Ukraine everything she needs to liberate her soil & stop hiding behind “escalation” excuses.
Window dressing. When will he visit anywhere that would have the balls to arrest him? I agree with J, I’d have left this alone.
As for deportation of Children, shall we discuss our deporting the Chagos islanders to make way for Diego Garcia?
He deserves to be given that label. It’s a good thing.
He does. But such is the Russians brainwashing of their citizens this just creates greater ammunition for them to twist to use to their advantage. The old siege mentality. We know he is wrong and Russia is wrong, even those nations who sit on the fence for their own selfish reasons.
Agreed on that one mate, it can and probably will ensure some floating (ill-informed) supporters of Putin, to say you know, they are all against us, and they will support Putin for the sake of Russia.
DM, is the brainwashing really working? 20% of Russians may believe Putin, another 20% are fed up with him & his lies. The remaining 60% have gone back to Soviet ways, stay out of politics, keep their head down, but know full well the regime is not truthful. At least that’s what street interviews show.
Yes, so maybe it is brainwashing and sheer fear. Typical police mafia state.
I get what you are saying Daniele. But surely it has gone past that stage now. I think Russia is brainwashed enough or certainly quite a large proportion of it and considering what the Russian government have done, I just don’t think the west needs to hold back on what we really think of him.. It was good to come out with it finally and call him out for what he is.
I guess what I was trying to say was.. Putin’s brainwashing and lies are at such a level now when it comes to Russia.. Many Russians are already persuaded by him. No need for the west to think we should say this or that or hold back from saying anything. Just come straight out with it and call him out for the tyrant he really is.
Respect your view point though.
And likewise, John. Slava Ukraini regardless. Always.
This touches upon my trouble with our moral high ground. Let he without sin throw the first stone. I now hate Russia with a passion and say a little prayer each night for Putler to have an aneurism, and Lavatory and the rest. But as much as they concoct lies to justify their behaviour, occasionally they say things that put the West in a position of looking a bit hypocritical. And this is partly why India and most of South America and Africa are shrugging their shoulders. Weāve got so many backs up, itās sad but not that surprising that… Read more Ā»
Its not sad Phil, its catastrophic. Regardless of how we think of ourselves, we have very little moral ground to stand on in the eyes of particularly those countries in the World outside the 46 (mainly the West plus Japan, SK, Aus and NZ) or so that have sanctioned Russia (the Rest of the World-RoW). Many are ex colonies who were treated very badly by some powers, like Belgium, Portugal and France, whilst our activities in China are a blot on us. Pretty much all were exploited and few if any of these countries have forgotten or forgiven. Off the… Read more Ā»
Russia having no colonies? Jesus but you’re an irony free zone. Just off the top of my head there’s the illegal annexation of Ukrainian provinces, the Baltic states, and all the former Eastern Europe WP countries that laboured under the Soviet/Russian yoke. Not surprising that those countries that experienced Russian rule are most determined to avoid that fate befalling them again. Go figure huh ? I think you’ll find it was Russia that staged a coup and attacked the Donbas, the rest of your word salad about NATO and Minsk agreement is utter, unsubstantiated bullshit. As for the motley collection… Read more Ā»
Georgia. Those bits of Siberia taken from China.
I completely disagree that we exploited anyone. We gave the world civilisation and industrialisation. We gave them modernity and our beautiful language. We even tried to bequeath Parliamentary Democracy, for pity sake!
I do agree that NATO and the EU let themselves down by not keeping to agreements with Russia and the other Warsaw Pact nations. But the again, there was so much animosity resulting from the ill deeds of the USSR. Something was going to kick off somewhere. So far we have all gotten of lightly in my opinion.
Oh you love to post a rhetoric loaded vent donāt you when you see an opening, in which a contributor posts an opinion which gives you an opening for a froth filled propaganda statement. All this from āsomeoneā who has, and refuses to, condemn this illegal invasion by Putin, of Ukraine. But you love to degenerate others, the west and Ukraine, their history and politics, but you are still unable and not allowed to criticise Putin. A troll, and if not a troll, a disgusting parasite who is simply a paid off coward. You must be proud. But our money… Read more Ā»
Yep, I noticed that. I hold my hands up to that one there mate.
Still my opinion though! We are no angels on occasion. But we are not Russia or that evil bastard.
Agreed mate, all countries have a history, the big thing is some countries learn from it, others continue to repeat it.
I don’t think that learning is something the Russian state is capable of.
Just like to remind everyone I was saying Putin was threat on this website 5 yrs ago when a lot of posters were not buying it , even people quoting to me scared of the red under the bed lol.
‘Pretty much all were exploited and few if any of these countries have forgotten or forgiven.’ His Majesty King Charles III has just entertained Commonwealth leaders in London. ‘Agreements when Merkel and Holland along with Poroshenko admitted last year that they never intended to honour them, they were just to allow NATO time to re-arm and train the UA to a state that it could attack Donbass.’ Ukraine could no more attack the Donbass than England could seize Kent. It is part of their sovereign territory, illegally occupied by Putin in 2014. Merkel didn’t re-arm. German observers believe it needs… Read more Ā»
This is the best single post I have seen on this site.
Thanks. I find typing a challenge. I like Airborne’s sallies mostly. He uses fewer words and makes me laugh. But the war out there is dreadful and no joke.
Yes Russia had no colonies,
None
Not like:
Or any of the other ethnic groups that remain in the Russian Federation are Russian Colonies. Nope. Their dislike of Russia has nothing to do with that.
By the way, where is that condmenation of Putins invasion Vatnik?
Many thanks for this. There is also a strong internal opposition to Putin. Contact between opposition figures and the rest of the world is obviously limited by the thuggery and poisoning policies of Putin’s Kremlin.
Boom, Dern shoots and we have troll down, troll down, johnskie is down in the city.
You specifically have no moral high ground you filthy Russian troll.
You are ignoring reality again John.
We only know what ‘countries’ think when they have democratically elected governments. Those are overwhelmingly anti Russia’s invasion.
The unelected governments of the world are anti western because we show their victims what could be if they were free. This makes us a threat to them i.e. Iran where you may have noticed signs their government does not really represent their people, or China which executes approx 8k a year and still admits a prison population comparable to the USA which does not include all those camps for Uyghars and others across the country.
Well said.
The BBC reported:
“Karim Ahmad Khan, prosecutor of the ICC, says no-one thought Slobodan Milosevic, the Serbian leader who went on trial for war crimes in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo, would end up in The Hague.”
But he did.
So did Liberia’s Charles Taylor, who was sentenced to 50 years in jail, and Rwanda’s FĆ©licien Kabuga, who was arrested in 2020.”
Putin will always be looking over his shoulder…
I think the most important thing is right now that we continue united in the West in supporting Ukraine militarily with what it needs to push these invaders out. š¬š§šŗš¦
Devil’s advocate time again. Illegal deportation/abduction of children OR evacuating them from a war zone for their own safety. Not enough information here to know for sure and neither side can be trusted to tell the truth. Actual fact or just more propaganda fiction. Where did these kids come from? If it was the Luhansk or Donetsk People’s Republics, then arguably they were not Ukrainian. Were the parents alive or did they all come from orphanages? Were the parents killed by Ukrainian shelling since 2014 or Russian shelling since 2022? Were the kids Russian speakers from ethnic Russian families or… Read more Ā»
Stunned, that was an excellent comment that came out of the blue. Thank you.
Putin is a war criminal. Invading an independent sovereign country and the destruction he has caused.. I don’t care what your thoughts are on this particular subject. Putin is a murderer of men, women , children. To take the lives of the most innocent young is the worst of all war crimes. Non of that would of happened if he had not ordered the invasion of Ukraine. He is rightly labelled a war criminal, what ever argument or angle with this discussion you come from. Slava Ukraini !!!
Why thank you? Youāre an impartial observer for the UK, arenāt you, so why do you thank a post not to you, replying to you or verifying your posts as correct. There was a bit too much excitement in your reply to him. Itās because you see an opening, someone who has raised a question, and an ideal opportunity for you to push out more nonce propaganda. He has raised a question, not trying to state facts and justify murder, rape and torture like you do!
Well said..
Many thanks.
Correct. Beautifully put by-the-way.
Again, you are far to kind, it’s fun destroying this trolls efforts at credibility.
Not surprised a you support Russian abduction of Ukrainian children, given your support for Russian rape crimes in Ukraine. Paedophilia is the obvious next step in Russian degeneracy.
Yours too I imagine.
The International Criminal Court would never make an indictment without all due diligence and independent evidence. Calm down. Vladimir Putin will get a fair trial if he is lucky. Or fall out of a high window. Or shoot himself in the head, pausing only to re-load.
Who is to say, George? How about the International Criminal Court, which isn’t on either side.
There are always two sides to an argument and it’s not like the ICC to hold a trial by media.
Take a look at this story from last year:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/help-rehome-ukraines-100000-orphans-23372985
It is possible that the Russian people wish to help with the orphan crisis, given that a large chunk of the population from Luhansk, Donetsk and Crimea are Russian speakers.
How can you be so certain? Fear not, the I.C.C. isn’t some tool or puppet; they would also only acted after rigorous examination of the evidence, thought not perhaps, contributions from such as Walesonline. Mr Putin can or course defend himself, but I doubt he would bother, do you? In effect the indictment is simply a declaration of how appalling the war has been for large scale human suffering. I very much doubt there is any belief at the I.C.C. Putin would ever stand trial but that is no reason to simply watch this unfold.
I’m not certain of anything to do with Ukraine and Russia. Both are corrupt oligarchies and recovering former communist countries. However, they are also Europeans with a mostly Christian culture. Meaning the welfare of children has a way of transcending many other pressing concerns.
As I’ve said in a previous reply. I’m going to delve deeper into this subject with the ICC data. Wish me luck!
If they weren’t Russian speakers before, they are now. Ukraine begged Russia to allow civilians to leave Mariupol for elsewhere in Ukraine, but Russia forced relocated them to Russia instead. They are ethnically cleansing the area. That’s a war crime. Also Russia has such a chronically low birth rate it’s desperate for children. And I doubt sending the young men of eastern Russia to die in Ukraine has helped the situation. However, Russia has neglected their own orphans since the Soviet Era, and orphanages have been systematically deprived of funding, especially in the East. If you think the Russian state… Read more Ā»
I agree with you Jon. Before illness took me down, I was a fund collector volunteer for Save the Children. The plight of the Romanian orphans really opened my eyes. It certainly is a problem in Eastern europe.
Both sides in this conflict or guilty of ethnic cleansing and the associated crimes. Yet another similarity with old Yugoslavia. More reasons why we should be pushing for peace and a peace keeping force from the UN. It would need to be the Indian army or someone else both sides could trust.
The I.C.C. is not some sort of international legal Poundl@nd. They would have done due diligence. It will be in the citations of the warrant.
Good point. I’ll try to find the relevant pages and sit down with a mug of strong coffee. I find legal documents a bit tedious but in this case, maybe worth the effort. Cheers Barry.
Since reading the article by George Alison. I’ve sifted through many of the pieces written about orphans and the plight thereof in Ukraine. Both before and after the 2014 coup. It’s heart breaking. As a father of four, it really pulls on the strings.
I never doubted your motive. Whatever the circumstance and where the culpability lies, the effect on the children is heart breaking.
It really is my friend, heart breaking.
Slight issue with finding that information out from Russia is that they have major issues with facts. It can be done with DNA tests, speaking to the children, relatives etc. Will it be allowed? Very doubtful. If putin believed in what heās doing he would have no problem addressing the charges and proving them incorrect. If he doesnāt then that speaks for itself. The ICC operate an innocent until proven guilty. These children must of been taken since 2022 as there couldnāt be that many orphans from the civilian casualties from 2018-2021. There was only 23-29 civilian casualties on both… Read more Ā»
I only know what I’ve managed to find on line, same as you. I did find a video with Putin addressing the public and talking about rescuing orphans from the areas being fought over. My Russian is nowhere near good enough to confirm the translated text. It seems he makes no secret of relocating the orphaned kids. But as I’ve said before. Don’t trust anything either side say in this war. It’s two former USSR propaganda teams competing with each other. Even then, we only hear what our media “luvies” decide to tell us if it fits their woke narrative.… Read more Ā»
My reply to you is awaiting approval due to included links. ļ»æšµļ»æ
I think as the ICC has issued an arrest warrant and charged Putin openly stating the accusation then there must be significant evidence for his action being criminal George.
The more I read about it, the more I agree with you. Old Col. Vladimir Vladimirovich is certainly living up to his KGB/STASI reputation. You do realise that if it wasn’t for the post German unification “amnesty of sorts.” Current German jails would still be full of former East German STASI serving life sentences. It was calculated from the records and archives, that as many as one in seven East Germans were either working directly for the STASI or informing for them. I can’t think of a worse mind bending career path than Putin’s – KGB high flyer attached to… Read more Ā»
The Imperial War Museum has knocked out a short video synopsis on the first 10 days of the Russian invasion of the Ukraine. Very interesting and imparts information that isnāt widely known. (12 mins long)
That was well worth the watch. Thanks for sharing.
Enjoyed that, cheers Farouk.
It seems strange to me that the ICC should hang their war criminal accusation only on the deportation of children. Much more serious is the fact that Putin is a war criminal because of his killing of thousands of innocent men, women and children in his illegal invasion of Ukraine. He should hang from the end of a rope.
Itās a very smart move, going for something specific that can be proved in court with evidence rather than a grand but generalised accusation of warmongering. If found guilty of forcefully taking and deporting large numbers of children, as a strategic policy decision from the top, thatās enough to get someone locked away for a long time.
As if there isnāt enough evidence to throw the complete book at Putin for being responsible for the war crime of butchering innocent men, women and children. I do not agree itās a very smart move.
It’ll come.
‘Strange’ is well, a strange response.
I think that more charges will be forthcoming.
Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
The only way this will end without WW3 is for the West (population) to start boring with their wallets, stop buying ANY goods or services provided by states that are actively supporting Putin and his Orc. if the west stopped buying chinese goods for 6 months they know their entire economy would tank. i donāt think Russia will buy enough to make up even if done as exchange for oil. Ban all exports to countries supporting the war.
Also bearing in mind the western economies would also tank using that tactic.
We clearly need to decouple ourselves from Chinese manufacturing. It was a moral & strategic blunder made by our greedy rich decades ago that shut down our home manufacturing & exported the jobs to China.
Absolutely and thatās a fact
Correct and I think the message has got through, accelerated by this dreadful war in the Ukraine..
The “greedy rich” as you put it, includes all the shareholders of British companies e.g. many of our pension funds and insurance companies.
Are you not going to reply to Farouk or others, who have kindly responded to your posts, spending time correcting them and assisting you in availing yourself with facts and knowledge? You are a very one poster troll arenāt you!
The problem is a fundamental difference of opinion here as to what a colony is or run. Us in the West using them pretty much for exploitive purposes which often involved infrastructure and societal developments. Whilst the USSR and countries around it were more collaborative. Also, in our case, I can’t remember a leader from one of our colonies becoming our leader in the UK like Stalin, Brezhnev and probably Khrushchev did.
The thread structure also makes responding to nested posts tough besides which it was heading way off topic.
And no!
OMG now your line of argument whose colonies were worse! FFS you do become desperate in your chuff! So if you ask the Polish for example they would give you a positive spin on the ācollaborativeā nature of the Soviet Unions occupation! Oh my, the trolling is weak with this oneā¦.
I think it was more overconfidence based on the view that commercial links and resulting political and cultural influence helped bring down the USSR. With China any such effect appears more muted although whether it is going on is debatable.
The only way that can happen through personal choice is to ensure that a large enough country of origin label is on every packaged product sold in the UK, and in every online catalogue at the start of the description. Current labels are often too small to be legible. It’s not just British companies that build in China. I recently bought a Daewoo air fryer which I thought would be South Korean, but in fine print written in white on light grey, unreadable in shop lighting, made in China. I’m not sure if I’d have bought it anyway if I’d… Read more Ā»
I believe the swivel away from reliance on China for manufacture for one, began in the U.S. under Donald Trump’s presidency; bringing jobs home. It will come that the west outsources elsewhere than China but the timescale is uncertain.
Hopefully one day soon he gets a push out the window š
Is the world that lucky everything that happens now seems to be for the worst.
OT. Just read the RAFs Protector programme cost has risen by Ā£325 million, Ā£180 million of which are due to a deliberate 2 year delay imposed due to wider spending concerns.
The usual false economy. Cost of an extra T31.
Itās like a payday loan, except much worse. The government knows this would be the outcome but would rather take a hands off approach and say ur budget ur problem. Make it work for this financial period.
This is purely a symbolic gesture and in reality will not affect Putin in any way other than to add another stain to the many he already has on his character.
I know everyone will say this is impossible to achieve, but let’s not forget many of these Presidents/War Criminals eventually see the inside of a cell a few years after falling from power.
Russians from Putin to the average grunt need bringing to book for every war crime committed in the war on Ukraine.
I’m sure that Bush and Blair have fallen from power. No sign of them seeing the inside of a cell for the Iraq War, a rather more serious event than this one. Then in 2020, after more than six years, the ICC closed its preliminary examination of war crimes by UK forces in Iraq. The decision from December 2020 reveals systematic failures of international justice and proves, once again, that powerful actors like the UK can get away with torture. You know, by an average UK ‘grunt’. BBC News 55247033 refers. Meanwhile Assage gets jail for bringing crimes to the… Read more Ā»
Oh dear a very weak effort at comparison there troll boy! You still wonāt condemn this illegal invasion of Ukraine by Putin but decide to harp on about Iraq! You have no idea at all have you, bring a poorly paid up troll, in regard to the justification you try to push out, in your defence of a Nazi organisation killing, torturing civilians in Ukraine. I for one, like many others who spent time over there, condemn the decision by Bush and Blair to go into Iraq, but, then again I can canāt I, as Iām a free citizen in… Read more Ā»
Canāt be just me, but the recent coverage of Putin in Mariupol, looks like one of his body doublesā¦lolā¦ ļ»æšļ»æ. Would he risk travelling there? Who knows. ļ»æšļ»æ
Apparently no-one knew he was going there, he just appeared there and the video shows him driving himself around making a few stops much to the disbelief of the locals. He even had to stop at a road junction, no police to wave him through. He then went on the military front line HQ in Rostov to check on progress.
I don’t reckon it was actually him. The body posture is too upright, might be a bit taller too and his hair around the back the ears isn’t quite the same, and the eyes and face looks a bit younger… Lol š. Either way, quite a risky visit to pull off…even for a double.
His body double was an exact likenessā¦…overweight, fat neck, weak chin, badly dressed, shaking like a shitting dog, smelling of mothballs and with a small child in the boot of his car. Any condemnation of his illegal invasion of Ukraine yet?
I am not sure of the legal standing of this warrant as neither Ukraine or Russia are parties to the Rome Statute (neither is the USA)?
Correct. It’s absurd to charge Putin with war crimes without also charging Bush, Blair etc. for the illegal Iraq War during which probably a million+ died. In 1996 Madeleine Albright wnt further and said on US national TV that 500,000 Iraqi children dead from sanctions was “worth it”. It’s a fair argument against the claim being made against Russia. If the law doesn’t apply to everyone, then it’s not a law, it’s just a tool of the powerful to be used against their enemies or those who don’t matter to them. Never to themselves. As evidenced by the ICC, when… Read more Ā»
Any condemnation of Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine yet? You seem to dislike a western intervention in Iraq, which most of us do actually condemnā¦ā¦..your turn to condemn Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine now trollā¦..ah the silence is very telling my little on the leash troll!