Stalled advances, logistical issues and jets being forced to resort to flying at night has characterised the first week of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

An intelligence from the Ministry of Defence reads as follows:

“The main body of the large Russian column advancing on Kyiv remains over 30km from the centre of the city having been delayed by staunch Ukrainian resistance, mechanical breakdown and congestion. The column has made little discernible progress in over three days.

Despite heavy Russian shelling, the cities of Kharkiv, Chernihiv and Mariupol remain in Ukrainian hands. Some Russian forces have entered the city of Kherson but the military situation remains unclear.

The Russian defence ministry has been forced to admit that 498 Russian soldiers have already been killed and 1,597 wounded in Putin’s war. The actual number of those killed and wounded will almost certainly be considerably higher and will continue to rise.”

The Ministry of Defence tweeted:

As mentioned above, Russian aircraft are being forced to fly at night. A British military intelligence update said:

“Russia has failed to gain control of the airspace over Ukraine prompting a shift to night operations in an attempt to reduce their losses.”

Russia fails to gain air superiority over Ukraine

What about that column? Have a read here.

Who controls what?

Who is doing what?

The article below details aid given to Ukraine before and during the invasion of the country by Russian forces.

Who has given what to help Ukraine?

 

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George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen (@guest_622248)
2 years ago

Both Biden and Macron practically telling Putin he will regret his actions whilst threatening no action whatsoever, once again, a tyrannical dictator is free to do as he pleases. We have learned nothing from history. Meanwhile, it seems the Russians could finally have started to have gathered more momentum in the South, though supposedly there are numerous reports of Russian soldiers facing food shortages and stealing food. Oh, and it us finally good to see a Ukranian attack on that column.

Last edited 2 years ago by Christopher Allen
Steve
Steve (@guest_622253)
2 years ago

Why talk about macron, realistically no western leader is doing aynthing. Boris is still digging his feet in about issuing proper sanctions or allowing visas for refuges, as demonstrated during this week’s PMQ.

Going up against Russia militarily would trigger ww3, and likely end up with nukes flying, an option no one wants.

Outside sanctions and helping refuges, not sure what anyone can do.

Last edited 2 years ago by Steve
Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622262)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

Actually, I’m quite pleased Macron is keeping in touch with Putin. Is Boris? Is Liz Truss?
Even potential enemies should try and show respect and keep channels open.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622276)
2 years ago

I agree. There has to be one leader from a larger European NATO country keeping the channels open. France is probably the best option, they are seen as not being completely in the US pocket, have a credible world stage profile. The U.K. is probably seen as being to aligned to the US, Germany is really I think in to much of an existential re-evaluation of their essentially pacifist geopolitical stance ( they have just shifted from a 75 year long paradigm). The important thing is although Macron is acting as that communication channel. He is also throwing all his… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Jonathan
Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622287)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Pretty much this.

John Clark
John Clark (@guest_622305)
2 years ago

I would agree, having to talk to that vile excuse for a man, must turn his stomach, he’s probably sick in the nearest waste paper bin after the call! But things will get ‘really’ dangerous with no lines of communication open! The problem is this, Putin’s quick invasion and regime change has stalled and might well fail. Putin ( like many of the head shed in Russia) can’t be seen to fail and simply won’t back down what ever the cost…. So tactics will shift, soldiers will start mopping up operations after artillery and airstrikes reduce Ukraine to ruins and… Read more »

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622323)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Germany is sending Ukraine old GDR SAM 7 missiles.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622334)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

It only a small thing but for Germany that is huge. It’s stepping across a self imposed line they have not crossed for 75 years.

It is really important for the West, with this change and the 100billlion Germany will become ( hopefully) a third major European NATO player in all domains of Geopolitics, not just soft power Player of back seat geopolitics ( which tends to fail without hard power to back it up).

SwindonSteve
SwindonSteve (@guest_622348)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Excellent point about Germany.

Should they follow through as form the European triumpvirate of European powers that they should have always been, European NATO could actually be capable enough to confront Russian without the need of massive US re-enforcement.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622371)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Return to sender so too speak they might be an old AA system but Warsaw pact countries were flooded with them during the Cold War , good too see that their going the other way John

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622405)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Will be fine against hellos not much use against fast jets. The fact there are loads of these around will change the risk balance. Nobody will have sent the newest models of anything as it is certain that some fall into Russian hands. That said if it hits and reliably mission kills T72 or 80 then it does the job and will take out any of the other Russian lighter armour. There are so few Armarta that it isn’t worth worrying about and I suspect we won’t see them in action as they won’t want to reveal that in battle… Read more »

Positroll
Positroll (@guest_622577)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Up to 2700 Strela, in addition to 500 Stinger and 1000 Panzerfaust3
UKR soldiers know how to use Strela.
Even if they only work half the time, it is still a threat RUS pilots have to honor.
If 1600 are safe to send (wont blow up) and 800 work as they should, theyll still bring down 200 Russian jets. Well worth it.

Hermes
Hermes (@guest_622579)
2 years ago
Reply to  Positroll

“Up to 2700 Strela”
Dont be so happy about these:.. they are 30+years old from RDA.
A report from Germans 2 month ago talked about more than half were rusted and with moisture.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622628)
2 years ago
Reply to  Hermes

They probably need new batteries to have any hope of working. Perhaps the upgrade the CIA did to SAM 7, when Russia was in Afghanistan?

farouk
farouk (@guest_622581)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Amid news on Russian troops slowly advancing on the Ukrainian capital Kyiv, and bombardments and civilian casualties reported daily, Germany decided to send defensive weapons to the ex-Soviet country, including Strela light-weight, shoulder-fired, surface-to-air missile, or MANPADS. Yet, there may be a problem because, according to the local reports, a large part of these missiles are no longer operational as they have long been left to rot in storage facilities. Earlier, it was claimed that the European country was to send a total of 2,700 Strela missiles, though the delivery has not yet been approved. The Soviet-made missiles belonged to… Read more »

James
James (@guest_622341)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The leader that should be in touch is Merkel, they have had a decent relationship over the years.

Having Macron after the first meeting Putin described the meeting as having 6 hours of his life wasted to follow up with a threat of nuclear war is clearly the wrong person to have a line of communication open.

Also Macron putting his personal spin on it all for his upcoming election is clearly not interested in anything other than personal gain.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622372)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Yes if she was still in office I think your spot on.

You have to wonder if the fact Germany had a new chancellor may have played into timing. Putin would have expected a very weak response from a new chancellor feeling his way into the job…instead he got a guy who just stood up and flipped Germany into its most aggressive geopolitical stance In 75 years. One more miss calculation I think.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622409)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Well the new chancellor came over as very weak and then basically said nothing would happen.

Until his population told him to get his finger out as they were not I interested in being spectators to a mitigable genocide.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622434)
2 years ago

But he did get his finger out, and completely changes the German stance. Let’s be honest there have been a fair number of genocides in the last 60 years and Germany has never moved from its stance one inch.

dave12
dave12 (@guest_622491)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Germany will have a bigger budget than the UK with its new actions , I’m still waiting for our Gov to get it finger out on the bloody army , its beggars belief what they are doing.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622494)
2 years ago
Reply to  dave12

Yes I am surprised they have not come out with a statement on defence spending, both Germany and France have. The things that will make both Russia and China play nicely is a United and rearmed western world.

dave12
dave12 (@guest_622506)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The Chinese’s will certainly be taking note of how a half trained army is doing so badly against a NATO trained determined army with a determined population to back it up.
The Chinese did not do too well with Vietnam in the 70’s

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622532)
2 years ago
Reply to  dave12

The reality is Ukraine has a standing professional army of around 125,000, with about 900,000 reservists with some military training. Although they are performing well they are losing and will lose.

russia has a conscript army of 260,000 but with a massive difference in material and because of this they will win.

china has an army of a million+ with almost 20,000 armoured vehicles, it’s a juggernaut, if only a regional juggernaut. There’s not going to a military on the planet that would want to face that.

Last edited 2 years ago by Jonathan
Quentin D63
Quentin D63 (@guest_622556)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Don’t write Ukrainian forces off yet! They have “right” on their side plus most of the free world behind them! I hope the West can keep up supplies of weapons to them so they can have an ongoing and deadly impact on the Russian forces.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622627)
2 years ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

The problem is Quentin that this type of ongoing warfare kills the nation that is the battlefield not just troops. At some point it will become count productive to Ukraine, They will lose, either through Destruction of the fabric of their nation or the loss of there armed forces. Remember at some point, public health will collapse and the population starts to die of disease, hunger, cold etc as well as war. Ukriane needs to decide how long it can stay a battlefield and that’s not actually that long if you still want a functional nation. So unfortunately they will… Read more »

dave12
dave12 (@guest_622557)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

There seems to be a big gap between what the Russians think of as professional soldiers ,which in the Ukraine is showing.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622621)
2 years ago
Reply to  dave12

yes, you have to remember Ukraine had a tiny defence budget but what they do have is a full professional army and when you take the against a conscript army like Russia it’s going to hurt. But what Russia has is the enablers in massive numbers, huge numbers of fires counts So Russia is winning The lesson for the west needs to be that quantity still matters, As long as it’s also backed by the same quantity of enablers like fires. and quality only goes so far without that quantity. Remember China has a couple of million under arms as… Read more »

Quentin D63
Quentin D63 (@guest_622554)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Agree with you. A bigger and more powerful Germany and France may also mean more geopolitical competition for a say on things with the UK. Like others have said here the UK forces needs to be beefed up. The quality is always there just need more quantity and all in the right places. We’ll have to leave that to the “experts” but for god’s sake don’t the powers that be leave the UK and it’s people under protected. The UK prides itself on it’s global soft power influence which also needs hard economic-military power to prevent it from shrinking. Hope… Read more »

Hermes
Hermes (@guest_622580)
2 years ago
Reply to  dave12

Probably not.

Like a lot of people stated, Germany, France and UK have always been balanced between them for their budgets during the cold war and after.
I dont think its going to change.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622407)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Agreed

Graham Moore
Graham Moore (@guest_622503)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Merkel left office nearly 3 months ago.

James
James (@guest_622561)
2 years ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Im fully aware of that however if anyone in Europe had some chance of talking very frankly with Putin that he would listen to its her.

Macron despite his publicity stunts of trying to be the leader of Europe is clearly not helping the situation.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking (@guest_622355)
2 years ago

Agreed. Putin must not be boxed in. I loath the man but there is more at stake than one individual.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622411)
2 years ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

Ladder for climb down to be provided.

Dictator paradox.

Why dodgy policeman are allowed to retire with pensions…

All the same fundamental reasoning: better rid.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622496)
2 years ago

A surrounded army must be given a way out. The ancient rule of the charioteers says, “Surround them on three sides, leaving one side open, to show them a way to life. Show them a way to life so that they will not be in the mood to fight to the death, and then you can take advantage of this to strike them.”

Gunbuster
Gunbuster (@guest_622563)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

You are “quoting” some rubbish from 2 millennia ago and trying to apply it to modern warfare and weapons.
A little more up to date. The Falaise Pocket or Ruhr Pocket of WW2…
Modern warfare is total for Both sides…you don’t let anyone off with a get out of jail free card.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622629)
2 years ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Agreed Gunbuster, Hilter paused his advance on Dunkirk, thank god, and live to regret it. The evacuated soldiers carried their rifles out but not much else. Kit can be replaced, experienced troops not so easy. It is one reason I think the Ukrainians’ should pull back from the Eastern boarder region now that the Russians are approaching the Dnieper River on the southern flank. They will need all their capability if they are to hold Kyiv and Western Ukrainian long enough for the West to get the supply lines working properly. Not until we see convoys of trucks rolling into… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622636)
2 years ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Most warfare is not total (And even now let’s be honest here Russia could have been far more indiscriminate with its bombardment, there is usually a balance that is met as warfare always has a political element at least at first) This is a war of destruction for Ukraine not Russia. So it could ending some form of negotiated peace if Ukraine makes it difficult and Putin gets what he needs. You don’t want to fight to the total destruction of your nation if you can help it. If there is a way for Ukraine to survive and Putin to… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622675)
2 years ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Just to be clear Gun, I’m not using I in the context of operational war fighting. I’m using it in the political realm. We need him to have a way out before he utterly destroys Ukraine as a nation, kills many 10s of thousands and creates a million permanent refugees.

So the golden bridge is the negotiated settlement, after that the west needs to completely contain and then throttle Russia until Putin has gone. The golden bridge Example is current in so many ways, especially in negations that are and can only be adversarial.

DJ
DJ (@guest_622715)
2 years ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Actually it’s not rubbish, it’s basic psychology. To fight with your back to the wall means you will fight harder because there is no other option. The natural instinct is to run if you think you can’t win. Some will run regardless. Some will fight regardless. Some will fight if they think it’s worth fighting for or they think they will win. Modern warfare is different to 2,000 years ago, but human psychology has not changed. Even in modern warfare it is still a tactic that has value. If you know which way an enemy will try to break out… Read more »

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622367)
2 years ago

Macron held a 90min Call to Putin but didn’t have the Gaul too reverse Charges ,Daniele,

dan
dan (@guest_622376)
2 years ago
Reply to  Tommo

Unfortunately America is going the way of France with Biden in the WH. The new generations of American are weak and want the government to so everything for them. The days of America being the land of the free and home of the brave is over. Now the rest of the world suffers…..

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622406)
2 years ago
Reply to  dan

Kennedy said what was true of America when he took office “Ask not what my Country can do for me ,Ask what can I do for my Country ” Biden has reversed that statement, I just hope he and Macron disappear into the Sunset with their White flags There should be an Age limit on taking the reigns of power both Under age and Over age Daniele

Quentin D63
Quentin D63 (@guest_622573)
2 years ago
Reply to  Tommo

To me Tony Blinken, the SOS, looks like he would make a good President. Thinks and speaks well, seems like a straight shooter but also diplomatic, looks way more competent han Biden, Harris even ol’ Trump. Hope the US stays strong.

dave12
dave12 (@guest_622504)
2 years ago
Reply to  dan

dan you Russian troll do you not understand your job is so much at risk your Russian troops are taking a hammering before even the insurgency begins, your 7 rubles an hour job is soon to be gone , you might even have to join the Rus army things are that bad LMAO!!!!

Gunbuster
Gunbuster (@guest_622565)
2 years ago
Reply to  dave12

7 rubbles an hour…they will be paying him in buckwheat soon…

David Barry
David Barry (@guest_622663)
2 years ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

I had that in Latvia – God in heaven, I just could not get the taste for it and they were always serving it up.

Kapusta zupas on the other hand was fantastic.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_624220)
2 years ago
Reply to  dave12

I don’t think dan is a russian troll, I think he may be one of those right thinking Fred Perry wearers and let’s be honest if your Fred Perry shirt is not dayglow pink, yellow or neon blue your clearly making a massive fashion and political faux pas.

dave12
dave12 (@guest_624239)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Ah yes that type ,good point. Shame though i got two Fred Perry polo T’s.

Last edited 2 years ago by dave12
Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_624257)
2 years ago
Reply to  dave12

It all depends on the colour of your polo T Dave, as long as they are not yellow and black your ok.

interestingly Fred Perry have been fighting against the high jacking of their logo and shirts by the far right since around 2017, they have done a lot to try and combat this.

What is utterly ironic is that Fred Perry came from a left wing background, his dad was a socialist MP, his business partner in the clothing industry was Jewish Eastern European…the company and its roots are so far from the far right as you can get..

dave12
dave12 (@guest_624263)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I’m good then , yes the history of Fred Perry confirms the intellect of these far right muppet’s lol.

petebland
petebland (@guest_622818)
2 years ago
Reply to  dan

Dan, what evidence do you have of any of that? If you had actually met those young americans who fought recently in Afghanistan, Iraq or elsewhere – as I have – you wouldn’t be spouting such obvious nonsense. Switch off Fox News and actually meet really people

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622391)
2 years ago
Reply to  Tommo

Wasting 90 mins of Putin’s day must be useful.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622410)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

Yes but you’ve seen what happens to people who upset him Frank hopefully Macron likes Russian Tea or Perfume

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622468)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

That’s 90mins he’s not doing something horrible in.

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622515)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Exactly Jonathan,

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622436)
2 years ago
Reply to  Tommo

That’s really bad…really bad.😂😂

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622461)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I know Johnathan but unfortunately that seems too happen with people who either upset him or talk back to him on a regular basis

Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen (@guest_622264)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

I said Macron because he keeps trying and failing, though as you say, it is more then blithering idiot Bojo is doing. As for “starting ww3”, so what happens if Putin next says he wants the Baltic states to leave NATO or he will use nuclear weapons, or if he follows up Ukraine with invading Finland and Sweden to prevent them joining NATO? Do we leave them to their fate too just because “we might start ww3”. I don’t like it either, but whether we like it or not, we need to draw a line in the sand at some… Read more »

Steve
Steve (@guest_622270)
2 years ago

Fully agreed and NATO should be reinforcing it’s eastern borders to show Putin his going no further. Right now it’s a token force movement but it really needs to be a significant one.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore (@guest_623067)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

A token force is enough for a tripwire capability.

Steve
Steve (@guest_623072)
2 years ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Trip wire is designed around an invasion having started, and slowing it down. A bigger force could discourage before it starts

Graham Moore
Graham Moore (@guest_623247)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

I guess we have different definitions of tripwire. If you cross a tripwire it sets off something. If the Russians cross the eFP tripwire in Poland or the Baltic states, it sets off an Article 5 response by NATO, which would involve more than the in-place eFP forces.

Steve
Steve (@guest_623341)
2 years ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Na same definition. My point is Russia could gamble that NATO would not react, like they didn’t with Ukraine. Article 5 is a piece of paper, doesn’t cause anyone to react, polictics does that. A massive deployment make it clear that gamble or not, your fighting NATO

Graham Moore
Graham Moore (@guest_623754)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

Article 5 led directly to the Global War on Terror, following the 9/11 attack.

SwindonSteve
SwindonSteve (@guest_622273)
2 years ago

Once, almost inevitably, he installs a puppet government in Kyiv, he’ll be invited into Transnistria, Moldova.

Being something of a megalomaniac myself, I think he’ll turn to more low hanging fruit in the Caucasus after a suitable pause.

The Russian Empire 2.0.

Putin should have been born 150 years ago when people could get away with all this shit!

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622292)
2 years ago
Reply to  SwindonSteve

It appears he still is.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622380)
2 years ago
Reply to  SwindonSteve

There is also the Russian speaking minorities in the Baltic states that Putin could also say are being downtrodden by Nationalists (Nazis) Swindon Steve

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622284)
2 years ago

I think Putins next steps after Ukraine would be another non NATO country, Georgia and the southern nations that separate Russia from Iran would be possible, all small, all totally isolated.

That would give a continuity of land links and supply lines between three key risks to western liberal democracy power, China, Russia and Iran. With India playing a very neutral game ( they sort of have to really) that becomes a very big market and area of resources that could not really be interdicted in the traditional way.

James
James (@guest_622343)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Hence Georgia is applying for EU membership but that will no doubt rile Putin!

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622382)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

I’m not sure the EU will take Georgia for the same reason Ukraine could not join NATO. At present Russia is occupying Georgian soil, so as soon as Georgia becomes an EU member state, article 42(7j of the Maastricht treaty ( strengthen by Lisbon treaty modifications). This is basically if an EU member state is the victim of armed aggression within its boarders all EU members states are required to provide all aid and assistance within their power. It’s not as water tight a mutual defence pact as article five ( which is a one at war all at war… Read more »

James
James (@guest_622619)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Who is next, Kaliningrad!?

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622655)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Probably Moldova by ‘assisting’ the ethnic Russian rebels in Transnitra. Same tactic as Ukraine.
I have just emailed No10 with the suggestion that we might with the EU put boots on the ground to assist the Modovan forces to eliminate Transnistra rebels. Time to give Mr Putin some of his own medicine I think. I’m sure Moldova who have recently applied to the EU would welcome the help. Time also for the EU ‘army’ to show what its made of.

Last edited 2 years ago by Paul.P
Steve Salt
Steve Salt (@guest_622851)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

It’s already Russian.

James
James (@guest_623520)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve Salt

I know, it was a sarcastic comment that it might even want to join the EU!

Mr Bell
Mr Bell (@guest_622472)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I think Moldova next. Small continuation of the war from Ukraine. Then I agree turning south to take Georgia. He wants an empire a buffer zone (read battleground) between Russia and NATO.

Matt
Matt (@guest_622609)
2 years ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Moldova is also applying for EU membership.

They need perhaps to get Transnestria back pronto; it is part of their country.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore (@guest_623752)
2 years ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Don’t you think the Russian Army is struggling to take Kyiv, let alone most, if not all, of Ukraine?

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622630)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Moldova is likely the next target. They should drop claims on Transnistria, that way, they could be brought quickly into EU/NATO, if there are no longer territorial disputes.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622637)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

I agree and the EU need to move fast.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore (@guest_623068)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

You assume he will win in Ukraine, be hugely popular with the People and stay in power.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_623089)
2 years ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

The truth is he’s going to win what he needs in Ukraine, the fight is to asymmetric and Ukraine cannot sustain a major war on its own soil. Fighting a war on your own soil is utterly destructive, water, power, food, sanitation, basic public health all shatter and your population being to not only die of the direct effect or war but all those indirect, so unless Ukraine has the power to move take the fight to Russia ( which they don’t ) they will loss. It’s just a matter of how much they bleed Russia and what they can… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore (@guest_623667)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Jonathan, you are sure that Russia will win. However, if Ukraine adopts insurgency/assymetric tactics the situation will be as for the Soviet Union in Afghanistan – the Russians would withdraw. I am not so sure that Putin will stay in power – the oligarchs whose assets have been frozen will be against him, many of his Generals, those with an interest in banking and the economy, and now we hear of rebellious/rogue elements in the FSB (some of whom are a dab hand at serving poisoned tea). The population who are getting information from world sources must surely realise the… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_623707)
2 years ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

The problem is Graham it’s not Afghanistan. There is a significant ethic russian population that will support a Russian Occupation as well as the fact most Ukraine’s do have shared Heritage so most will not like it but they will live with russian occupation. Afghanistan: 1) is a country of mountains and some of worst geography on the planet for a modern army to fight. 2) it’s people have a history of constant warfare, they even constantly fight with each other. 3) food and water security are a mare as are any logistics 4) It’s people have no link and… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore (@guest_623792)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Hi Jonathan, You are right that Afghanistan is different to Ukraine for all those reasons. I know Afghan and its people somewhat – I served there for 6 months in 2008-9. However if and when the Ukrainian armed forces are written down so much that they are combat ineffective, or have surrendered – than I have little doubt that many Ukrainians (clearly not the Russian-speakers), military, ex-military, civilians will embark on an insurgency campaign. They are fiercely patriotic, now hate Russia and its army with a vengeance – and many civilians have done national service and have been armed with… Read more »

James
James (@guest_623521)
2 years ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

He technically cant be removed from power though can he? Unless he steps down or is no longer breathing.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_623708)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

And then there will simply be a new Putin…

James
James (@guest_623773)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Thats a complete unknown, depending on who steps up. The Russian public will not want another one in.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_623793)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

I don’t think the Russian people will have any say. Their experience of Actual valid democracy lasted for about 20 years, across the entire history of Russia.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622325)
2 years ago

If we give into Putin’s threats now, we will give in forever on. Putin needs to be met by cold hard unflinching resolve.

dan
dan (@guest_622379)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

From who exactly??? He only fears the American military and the idiot leading that has not courage at all. Just wait. Old Biden will give into Putin and promise him that Ukraine will never join NATO and will give Putin a new arms control treaty that castrates America even more than the previous treaties.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622414)
2 years ago
Reply to  dan

He’s Plastic Surgeon, Scalpel could slip dan

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622424)
2 years ago
Reply to  dan

The united free world standing together. Yes, I would have laughed at that a fortnight ago, but each day brings more sanctions.

petebland
petebland (@guest_622821)
2 years ago
Reply to  dan

After this pathetic Russian military performance Dan, I think Putin will start fearing the Welsh Male Voice Choir…

Putin won’t be around to sign any new treaty.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore (@guest_623069)
2 years ago
Reply to  petebland

There are more red hatched areas on the map of Ukraine than I would like.

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622393)
2 years ago

Agreed. It’s spurious & a weak excuse that Ukraine is not in NATO. We are culpable for leaving Ukraine to fight Russia single handed. Not being a member of NATO isn’t a problem when it suits us & I think risking the lives & future of 40+million Ukrainians is a sick choice. Not hearing enough of what the situation is in the UN. Outcomes of debates not being reported & I keep an eye on the news.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622651)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

The General Assembly roundly condemned Russia with only 5 countries supporting Russia, Even China abstained.

Cheers CR

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622700)
2 years ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Thanks CR. PRC is curious, but I’ll not trust her until she quits SCS, Taiwan threats & leaves the Uygurs alone for starters. PRC is a greater threat than Putin. Can’t trust either, especially what they say or sign.
I’m not against the nations or people, nor do I want to see their people suffer. It’s evil government that needs dealing with. I hold our own to the same standard.

Last edited 2 years ago by Frank62
Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622412)
2 years ago

Lines in the sand are very important.

At the very least arming them with kit that Mad Vad knows will knock out his forces.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622905)
2 years ago

I see Finland & Sweden have been invited to join NATO briefings on Ukraine.

expat
expat (@guest_622281)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

Macron had his pants well and truly pulled down by Putin, saying he’d brokered talks with the US, then Putin invaded.

Steve
Steve (@guest_622297)
2 years ago
Reply to  expat

The west could have stopped Putin if there really was a desire to do so. The issue is Ukraine isn’t of interest to the west (trade etc) and Russia has embeded itself into so many countries through its cyber warfare/PR machine / money and too many countries have a vested interest in Russian oil/gas continuing to flow.

Last edited 2 years ago by Steve
Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622386)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

Steve there’s a good programme on YouTube it’s a PBS production about PUTIN and how’s he’s wormed his way to power .He could have been stopped when he was Deputy Mayor of St Peters burg if the Police had followed up on an investigation into corruption missing millions and Putin behind it .Its very revealing

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622383)
2 years ago
Reply to  expat

Macron,s putting himself forward as the EUs go too Negotiating main man when really he just jealous that the Ukrainians won’t go down without a fight There’s no White in the Ukrainian National Flag Macron

dan
dan (@guest_622373)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

The free world like in every major crisis waited for America to lead they way. Unfortunately for the free world the American people elected a weak, old man to lead the country. Now the free world is paying the price. At least the Brits are doing something but they cannot do much more than send weapons without the help from the American military which liberal old Biden refuses to do.

Steve
Steve (@guest_622378)
2 years ago
Reply to  dan

America has sent a lot more weapons than we have. America’s interest are just no longer with Europe and committing huge forces there would distract from their focus on Asia

John
John (@guest_622505)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

They very much are with Europe. USA doesn’t want Europe spending too much on military nor uniting militarily as that will exclude the USA, reduce their influence and give them another potential China sized competitor. Sad state of affairs, but that’s geopolitics for you. In order to achieve this, they need to deploy large amounts of troops in Europe to justify European states not spending lots on military. There’s so much lies and spin around this. If EU formed Thier own version of NATO and each country ramped up defence spending to 3.5/ of GDP it would be very interesting… Read more »

James
James (@guest_622564)
2 years ago
Reply to  John

In the amount of time that it would take for the EU to agree on the policies around such a scenario China will have been the world super power for about two decades.

John
John (@guest_622610)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Yes, that’s one of the sad nubs of democracy, good things seem to take so very long to come into play.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622633)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

The USA has sent Javelin missiles, unexploded ordnance disposal suits, Mossberg shotguns, large amounts of belted 7.62 x51 ammo (which suggests they have sent machineguns too), anti bunker shoulder launched weapons & more.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore (@guest_623071)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

America has 6 times our population and 15 times our defence budget. Of course they would gift more military kit than the UK. Does not mean our efforts are trivial.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore (@guest_624241)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

America does not want to see its old ideological enemy, Russia, triumph.

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622426)
2 years ago
Reply to  dan

Biden may have his faults but at least he’s not a Putin fanboy like Trump, who tried to overthrow democracy.

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622604)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

Agree, as the cardinal said, Trump is a barbarian, but he’s our barbarian. His raw force was channeled for good in some areas like economic self sufficiency vs China and family values but it does look like Putin had some hold over him. But he did light the fuse of US re-awakening. Ukraine is a Pearl Harbour moment. Now the nation needs to come to terms with itself and unify. Biden is doing the job of the mirror in which the United States sees both its own reflection and the world – reality and vulnerability. God bless America !

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622389)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

“Going up against Russia militarily would trigger ww3”, yet invading a neighbour, bombing & killing civilians & threatening nuclear war on any who defy him makes NATO back off & allow him to get on with it? Putin goes to war but we can’t? This is appeasment. Sanctions take a very long time to work, if they work at all. All the dead & dying Ukrainians thank you for playing the long game!! I thought the idea of deterrence was to counter threat with threat, not let them get on with it whiule crying crocodile tears. We’re allowing the rebirth… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Frank62
Steve
Steve (@guest_622404)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

Fully agree, the west should have deployed troops into Ukraine prior to the invasion and it would have stopped it, but now is too late, as it would mean a direct confrontation on russia, which can only end badly.

John
John (@guest_622518)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

Complex subject, bit of a naive take. I think the main thing that could have prevented this was refusing to allow Ukraine to join NATO or the EU. That’s not justifying Russia’s actions, they are horrific. If it was me In Putin’s shoes I would have kept things under the radar, instigated a Russian backed colour revolution and tried to get influence in Ukraine that way, unless that’s what he’s been doing and he’s just failed completely and exhausted all of his options. It’s all a bit pathetic really. I also just see this as another failure of USA global… Read more »

James
James (@guest_622566)
2 years ago
Reply to  John

Its either a sad state of events that have played out or a bigger plan by the west has been in place for some time to finally somehow remove Putin and or cripple Russia. However I do totally agree, the EU and NATO simply should have said no membership for at least ten years then we will review it. That would have appeased Putin to some extent and by ten years time will he still be alive or in power? Kick the can down the road until a better time to do it. Whatever the game in the background the… Read more »

John
John (@guest_622613)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Very good point James. That hasn’t occurred to me the option of saying no EU nor nato for Ukraine for 10 years or so. Maybe this came up in debates and was refused by Russia. All I know is the papers stories which said that this wasn’t even open for discussion, who knows the truth of it. It does feel a bit harsh dangling the promise of EU and then leaving Ukraine to get pummeled, although I appreciate Ukraine is getting a lot of western support and Russia is in economic calamity. Ukraine probably could have played it a bit… Read more »

James
James (@guest_622617)
2 years ago
Reply to  John

Also I have no idea of the internal make up of Ukraine, one thing for certain is Russia will have people at all levels of government and they clearly have not been happy since the new guy took power.

Im sure the idea of a ‘delayed’ discussion must have come up it seems to simple a solution to an immediate problem for it not to have been discussed, I hope anyways! If it was rebuffed then we know something bigger is at play in the background.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622635)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

If Putin starts large scale shelling of Kiev, Britain should take into “protective custody” the children of oligarchs in UK private schools & top universities. No direct flights to Russia, so send them to Finland or Estonia. They can cross into Russia by land from there. That is one way to take sanctions straight to the oligarchs.

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622698)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

No, it is wrong to target children whoever their parents are, that’s not who we are. What we’re avoiding is our responsability as a guarantor of Ukrainian soveriegnty is the duty & imperative to go in & eject Russia by force. No amount of hysterical outrage or sanctions(or our 2nd rate leaders grandstanding) are going to make up for pulling back & allowing Putin to get on with it. It just doesn’t cut it with dictators.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622711)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

Usually I would agree with you, but if Putin bombards Kiev to dust, we need harder measures. Oligarchs think their kids are safe in Britain. If they are sent back to Russia, the oligarchs will worry their 17-22 sons will end up as cannon fodder. Might force them to take some sort of action against Putin.

Stuart Paterson
Stuart Paterson (@guest_622648)
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve

Totally agree.

Sean
Sean (@guest_622283)
2 years ago

2014 should have been the wake-up call, the sanctions we see now should have been imposed then.

And NATO should have put a peace keeping force on the ground in Ukraine to make the point, ‘no further’.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622294)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

I agree with you on this- nothinig has been done for 7 years- and people act like its a surprise.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622422)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

In the guise of UN peacekeepers would have worked but not as NATO Sean

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622429)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

Looks like all that dodgy Russian money was spent well amongst our amoral leaders. Bought a lot of influence & rabid disarmament.

James
James (@guest_622567)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

Russian money wont have bought disarmament, is far too much money on the defence gravy trains in most countries. However as the world has gone on and on especially in europe without any wars at home the justification for spending so much on defence has slowly withered.

Political parties in most countries will win terms by increasing spending on the daily things like health, education, transport etc.

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622608)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

Syria, Crimea, Salisbury. Chechnya, Oligarchs buying up London and funding UK domestic politics, interference in US elections, Nordstream 2……its not as if we haven’t been warned. Interesting how Ukrainian refugees seem to be worth more than Syrian refugees. Follow the money and you will find the answer…..
You have to put your own house in order before you know how to help someone else. Ask yourself why the people of Ukraine have to pay the price of our greed and corruption.
As the Pope said ‘I allowed myself to be deceived’. We have been willing accomplices to our own downfall.

Netking
Netking (@guest_622329)
2 years ago

There are so many levers of power that can be used other than threatening military action. The unified and unprecedented sanctions regime will most likely destroy the Russian economy to the point that I’m now seeing suggestions that we should offer the possibility sanctions being lifted in return for them totally withdrawing from Ukraine. Besides, there is nothing Putin will love more than for the US to suggest military involvement so he can then go to the Russian public and claim that he had no other choice than military action due to US aggression.   Besides the intelligence that the… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622423)
2 years ago
Reply to  Netking

I agree the clear intel picture has been useful to the Ukrainians. I suspect it has been more along the lines of why don’t we buy you a free subscription to a commercial satellite service? Followed up by you might like to look at these coordinates at this time or that. Coupled with telling the Ukrainians what the overall strategy is. The only raw intel that will be fed to the Ukrainians is the clear radio intercepts and maybe a live filtered air picture. The air picture coupled with the lack of smart munitions is why the Russian airforce can’t… Read more »

Netking
Netking (@guest_622490)
2 years ago

I suspect it has been more along the lines of why don’t we buy you a free subscription to a commercial satellite service?”

These are serious times and I shouldn’t have but that got a good laugh out of me.

I see the French are saying that after Macron’s call with Putin earlier today, they believe the worst is yet to come for Ukraine. I made a prediction last weekend that it was only a matter of time before Russia resorted to their usual style of “scorched earth” warfare. It looks like we’ve reached that point sadly.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622497)
2 years ago
Reply to  Netking

Why send them the super sensitive raw stuff when all they need is what they need?

De minimis

Netking
Netking (@guest_622555)
2 years ago

I wasn’t disagreeing with you on that. I think you are absolutely right. I guess it came across as a little bit of dark humor that made me laugh much more than I expected.

James
James (@guest_622568)
2 years ago
Reply to  Netking

Yes it looks like we have reached that point of him trying to level enter towns to get the resistance to simply give up, awful scenes.

dan
dan (@guest_622370)
2 years ago

Putin knows Biden is weak and is all talk. Biden wasn’t even giving Ukraine lethal weapons until after Boris started sending weapons to them. Trump reversed Obama’s ban on lethal sales of weapons to Ukraine and sent them a bunch of Javelins that they are now using to great success. Maybe if Obama would have had the courage to stand up to Putin the Ukrainian people wouldn’t be suffering right now.

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622523)
2 years ago
Reply to  dan

Why do you talk up Trump when Trump fawns over Putin even after he invaded?

Last edited 2 years ago by Frank62
Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622616)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

Trump was used by good forces until dark forces gained the ipper hand, at which point he had to go. Was always going to happen. The clue was Russian influence in US elections. It does look as though Putin had something on him. Biden is an old and physically weak man, but not stupid by any means. When you are old and weak you learn how to manage vulnerability. The trick is not to die. Biden works through Blinken who manifests excellent balance of prudence, wisdom and resilience.The US is learning from a survivor.😉

petebland
petebland (@guest_622464)
2 years ago

Bit harsh on Biden/Macron. They – and other western leaders – are forcing what will inevitably the almost complete collapse of the modern Russian economy. It’s easy to sit back in your comfortable chair and imagine no fly zones or other direct interventions, but in the cold hard reality those kinds of approaches are fraught with risk of nuclear conflagration. Just one tactical nuclear warhead directed by an enraged Putin to a city like Sofia, Warsaw, Stuttgart, Vilnius, Thessaloniki, Gothenberg would create global chaos and dislocation (as well as horror in that city). Even crashing the Russian economy comes with… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622499)
2 years ago
Reply to  petebland

Which is why I suggested not crashing it completely.

James
James (@guest_622569)
2 years ago

Exactly alot of people dont seem to understand that by completely crippling the Russian economy that is also backing him into a very tight corner.

I think the overall reaction of private companies to stop trading or sending goods is now as a collective over taking the impact the government based sanctions will have and we do need to be careful.

John
John (@guest_622615)
2 years ago

Yes, I don’t think people are fully aware of how vulnerable our financial situation is at the moment, nor how much economic blowback is coming our way from our economic sanctions on Russia. Gas is already set to be very high, inflation is high, gov in massive debt. I do believe we are heading for a repeat of the 1930s.

RobW
RobW (@guest_622249)
2 years ago

The optimism of the opening days is being replaced with the stark reality. Russia has committed the bulk of its forces and it seems Ukraine can do little about it, they may even be running out of munitions as it seems they had about 10 days worth at the start. Russia seem to be intent on following this through, there are no alternative voices in Putin’s inner circle, it is just an echo chamber. Dissent is clamped down on, there is no free media, and they are pumping out the official Kremlin line constantly, even in schools. There is no… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622256)
2 years ago
Reply to  RobW

Ukrainian capitulation I imagine. What is done is done and I think Liz bloody Truss needs to stop talking tough and reign in the rhetoric a bit. The Russians are lapping it up and turning it back at us as “aggression” A cornered rat is extremely dangerous, there must be an off ramp somewhere for Putin to take to de escalate, including gradual lifting of some sanctions once the fighting has stopped, whether Ukraine is occupied or even “neutral” with a puppet government. As an act of goodwill that could involve re admittance of sports teams from Russia. Meanwhile, NATO… Read more »

expat
expat (@guest_622268)
2 years ago

But does NATO let others join if they want to. This clearly angers Putin or does our appeasement stop further NATO expansion.

The wests biggest mistake was saying it would not get involved. We should have not made it so clear, of course we should have no intention of sending troops but him not knowing that could have changed his calculations, at times we [ut too much value on transparency and this time its costing lives. The damage is now done.

Paul42
Paul42 (@guest_622400)
2 years ago
Reply to  expat

The former Eastern block countries that joined NATO did so because they were in fear of Russia. Putin has scored a lot of own goals! As for threatening the nuclear side, he says that because of the lack of backbone in Western leaders…….

Expat
Expat (@guest_622597)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul42

Totally agree, those countries had to live under Russian influence and understand what that means more than anyone.

Sean
Sean (@guest_622277)
2 years ago

No, sanctions should stay and enforced until Putin and any puppet is removed from Ukraine and democracy restored. If we have to financially bankrupt Russia, if we have to make it a bigger pariah than North Korea, so be it.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622295)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

And if the sanctions drive Russia to its knees and he thinks sod it you ( us ) have ruined us we will now ruin you and launch nukes?

I get what you say Sean and you may well be right. I have a hawk hardline side, and I have a Dove side too. Dark and Light side of the force! Currently the light side is the stronger.

My thought was to try and de escalate with at least a back door open.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622327)
2 years ago

In the Cuba crisis, Russia blinked first.

James
James (@guest_622344)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Putin wasnt in charge then nor did they have missiles that could reach every corner of the planet, hence the crisis in the first place.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622427)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

The West (USA, France, Britain) have missiles that can reach every part of Russia. It is called Mutually Assured Destruction for a reason.

James
James (@guest_622562)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Yes it is and its something you seem to be advocating in every post, are you actually wanting a nuclear war?

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622638)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Are you sure you are a James? You sound more like a Guy, Kim, Donald or Anthony.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622710)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Like the touch with those Names from the past John , A privileged education can do so much damage as we found out

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622524)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

And the Americans removed their missiles from Europe that caused the Soviets to deploy theirs in Cuba in the first place. -Very quietly so the narrative was all Soviet aggression, but a fact nonetheless.

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622620)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

The deal that was done I believe was the removal of recently deployed US missiles in Turkey, Russia’s back yard in exchange for the dismantling of missile bases in Cuba, the US’ back yard.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622714)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul.P

👍 America, withdrawal their missiles from Turkey in return Russia withdrew their from Cuba but the media at the time never mentioned Turkey at all so to the West it looked like Kennedy had beaten Krustrov

Sean
Sean (@guest_622332)
2 years ago

In that case we might as well surrender and give Putin the keys to the White House because we’re going to fold to whatever Putin wants because we’re frightened he’ll play the nuclear card. Scrap our armed forces and nukes because we dare never use them. He cannot be reasoned with, he believes he has a messianic mission to restore the Russian Empire. But look how frightened he is of his population. Shutting down news services that don’t broadcast his propaganda, arresting protestors, propaganda classes for school children. None of this sounds like the actions of a man who feels… Read more »

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622528)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

Quite so. USA & UK shot Ukraine in the foot declaring we’ll send no troops just before the invasion. We have as many nukes as Russia, so how come our deterrent didn’t stop Putin invading Ukraine(after he swore blind he wasn’t going to) & threatening anybody who interferes with nukes? Why did we sign guaranteeing Ukraine’s soveriegnty when she gave up her nukes, yet stand off & let Putin tear her apart to become a downtrodden, raped & ravaged colony? We either stand up to Putin’s mafia state or appease away all our freedom & dignity. 44 million free Ukrainians… Read more »

Sean
Sean (@guest_622546)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

Agree 100%, the USA and U.K. as signatories of the Budapest Memorandum have a moral obligation to defend the Ukraine.

James
James (@guest_622570)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

Im not going to pretend ive read that memorandum but every interpretation or discussion about it I have read the apparent defence of Ukraine as such was very loosely worded.

Technically by supplying arms we are in some way defending them is probably the justification of why we are doing it to meet what was agreed and signed.

dan
dan (@guest_622381)
2 years ago

Not too worry. Biden will give Putin everything he wants to leave Ukraine inorder for Putin to save face. He will promised that Ukraine will never be allowed in NATO and he will even castrate the American nuke forces even more than Obama did with a new treaty. Biden has no concept that the only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them and not capitulate to them. The free world will have to look elsewhere for leadership than America now.

Klonkie
Klonkie (@guest_622455)
2 years ago

absolutely agree DM. Better a lean peace than a fat victory as the old adage goes.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622298)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

Again I agree with you – absolutely sanctions cannot be lifted why would we – just gives him credence and allows him to continue in a couple more – I mean why wouldn’t he?
To suggest othewise is quite simply ridiculous.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622326)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

Not one sanction dropped, for 50 years if need be.

farouk
farouk (@guest_622279)
2 years ago

Daniele wrote: As an act of goodwill that could involve re admittance of sports teams from Russia. I’m afraid I have to disagree Daniele, please allow me to explain why: In 1991 Russia requested that the international community sanction and finance its peacekeeping activities in the former republics of the Soviet Union. Russian President Boris Yeltsin first officially articulated the proposal in an address to a forum of the Civic Union in Moscow in February 1993: “I believe the time has come for distinguished international organizations, including the UN, to grant Russia special powers as a guarantor of peace and… Read more »

SwindonSteve
SwindonSteve (@guest_622288)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

Farouk, don’t know if you have seen this:

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/nationalist-and-imperial-thinking-define-putins-vision-russia

It’s quite an interesting piece which I think goes someway to explaining the mindset.

farouk
farouk (@guest_622394)
2 years ago
Reply to  SwindonSteve

Thank you, no i hadnt read it, and it was most informative.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622301)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

“Monroeski Doctrine” is new to me mate, so thanks for the read.
See my reply above to Sean. But I’m at a loss, with little more to add. Yes, worried too.

I think I will go back to ORBATS I’m more comfortable with my position there!

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622428)
2 years ago

Just spheres of influence dressed up differently.

It might as well have been written by Tom Clancy.

Here’s the thing: it isn’t even original Putin thinking. He is recycling others rubbish though processes.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622713)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

If Putin claims the land where ethnic Russians are, do we give him Mayfair, Belgravia, Kensington, Ascot or St Georges Hill in Surrey?

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622328)
2 years ago

Yes, it’s sickens me to say it but I think it’s the only way for Ukraine to prevent a catastrophic end.Fighting to the end would lead to the shattering of the nation, kill untold thousands through fighting, disease,water security and hunger ( war brings all the horsemen). I think their courage and sacrifice may have tempered Putin a bit and if he is offered a bridge he may take it ( he know now Ukraine will keep fighting unless there is a compromise). So I think the best Ukraine can hope for is a splitting of the nation into an… Read more »

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622529)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

That will allow Putin to kill or imprison all who opposed him. Even assuming he’d be happy with that.
He’s said he wants all NATO forces & misssiles out of ex-Soviet satallites. He’s a gangster- He wants them left defenceless so he can occupy them. China is the same.

Marked
Marked (@guest_622336)
2 years ago

The sanctions should stay until putin and his evil regime is history.

If we cave in and relax sanctions all it does is green light the next murderous venture.

It gives the go to user nuclear blackmail every time someone stands in his way.

Never ever give an inch to bullies.

Make no mistake, we are at war with this animal. Not a shooting war, but still war.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622399)
2 years ago

Daniele, Putin is the master at twisting the truth if you look back to 1999 when he was yeltsins new best buddy prineminster and then Russia came under attack with the Apartment block Bombings that killed hundreds most probably FSB instigated and carried out Bit all of a sudden there was a Chechen trail which then gave Putin the ideal opportunity to invade Chechnea too root out the supposed chechen Terrorists Yeltsin was too far gone Putin was the man of the moment he had also delayed Voting in Russia whilst the bombing were occurring As he would probably would… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622421)
2 years ago
Reply to  Tommo

Yes, I’d read of the false flag bombs.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622432)
2 years ago

Daniele was found intact Russian military grade explosives Russian military Detonator And timer then all of a sudden the lot disappeared from the basement where it had been planted, Also the Apperment Blocks that were destroyed suddenly got totally bulldozed before forensics could be carried out and all the bodies retrieved from the rubble in Putins eyes Job done Next!!!!

expat
expat (@guest_622260)
2 years ago
Reply to  RobW

I believe 3 Ukrainian transport aircraft were able to fly to Poland. But ultimately this will end with a Russian occupation through a puppet government and a Ukrainian resistance movement, which doesn’t need to be heavily resupplied to cause a lot of pain for Russia. Of course over time with no access to the outside media a new generation of Ukrainians will be indoctrinated.

Jacko
Jacko (@guest_622274)
2 years ago
Reply to  expat

Could you please explain how a puppet govt will have ANY chance of controlling a country of 40m people without the consent of the Ukrainian police,army etc?Putin can’t put the entire Russian military in there can he? If they get the president away from Kiev this could go on for yonks!

SwindonSteve
SwindonSteve (@guest_622278)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jacko

Interesting point.

We saw it WWII. Those who can will escape and some of then will re-group and return to the fight.

Those who can’t escape will either resist in various ways or collaborate.

Just history repeating itself and if we’ve learnt anything from history, it’s that we never learn anything from history…

Edit: spelling, grammar.

Last edited 2 years ago by SwindonSteve
Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622440)
2 years ago
Reply to  SwindonSteve

If you don’t learn from your History your damned too repeat it

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622684)
2 years ago
Reply to  SwindonSteve

Hi SwindonSteve, We should also remember the role that outside support plays in maintaining an effective resistance. The British went in big supporting the resistance to the Nazis through the activities of the SOE. Towards the end of the war the Nazis tried to set up a similar resistance post war but after some limited attacks by hold outs it faded away. So the fact that the West is backing the Ukrainians suggests that the Russians will have a very uncomfortable stay. A key part of any resistance will be maintaining an information flow into Ukrainian. The BBC has already… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622430)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jacko

These days not so much with Sat phones etc.

Potentially could be very coordinated.

In order to police a country you cannot go everywhere in huge convoys and picking off individual trucks, APC’s and tanks routinely will cause massive attrition.

Last edited 2 years ago by Supportive Bloke
Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622442)
2 years ago

SB That’s when the Round Ups begin you can bet your bottom Dollar on that tactic just like the Nazis did , But Putin would some how justify it

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622530)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jacko

How? -Simple brutal repression. Like China does, like Stalin did, like Hiltler did, like the Myanmar army does. Same way he’s assaulting cities.

Last edited 2 years ago by Frank62
Jacko
Jacko (@guest_622598)
2 years ago
Reply to  Frank62

So the entire Russian military is stationed inUkraine for the foreseeable future?

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622686)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jacko

A good portion of his frontline combat strength might well if the UKrainians have properly planned and prepared a resistance.

Cheers CR

Expat
Expat (@guest_622592)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jacko

What I mean is over a generation, you put individuals who are pro Russian in schools, media etc. Reduce access to other sources of information. A new normal is established and the real history erased. There’s examples of this around the world, I believe HongKong is going through the same Beijing washing process.

Jacko
Jacko (@guest_622596)
2 years ago
Reply to  Expat

See above answer!

SwindonSteve
SwindonSteve (@guest_622704)
2 years ago
Reply to  Expat

One only has to look at Western institutions, local and national government today, to see the result of the ‘long march through the institutions’ playing out in front of our eyes.

Jacko
Jacko (@guest_622594)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jacko

Yes but you still need a compliant security force for such things to work! It will take a complete change of mindset for the Ukrainians for that to happen any time soon. After what’s happening can you see somebody rocking up in Kiev or anywhere else trying to convert the masses?

Jacko
Jacko (@guest_622595)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jacko

The above is a response to Expat🙄

Expat
Expat (@guest_622607)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jacko

Jacko, perhaps it won’t happen but its more likely over time, I mean say 20 years.. Iran controls its population through the Basij a pro government civilian force of a few million and brutal tactics to control the population.

Last edited 2 years ago by Expat
Paul T
Paul T (@guest_622375)
2 years ago
Reply to  expat

I wonder if Mr Putin has changed his Plans – Plan A was obviously an attack on multiple fronts with little to no resistance, with a Thunder Run to Kiev to install a Puppet Government,but seeing the reception his Forces are getting it wouldn’t surprise me if Russia continues with its Wrecking Ball strategy,gets some concessions about Ukraine neutrality through negotiation then instigates a Fighting withdrawal leaving Ukraine a complete mess.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622443)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul T

Russia is used too the wrecking ball tactic they have done the same to Aleppo Syria

Expat
Expat (@guest_622593)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul T

Well tactics in the last few days have changed with more indiscriminate shelling etc. So you could be right.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake (@guest_622251)
2 years ago

We are still sending £millions to Pakistan and India who are still as Putin exterminates the Ukraine signing deals with Mr Putin for arms and ammunition that give him a semblance of credibility on the world stage.
If they want to support the Putin regime in Russia they should be doing it with-out money from the UK’s tax payers.

Levi Goldsteinberg
Levi Goldsteinberg (@guest_622266)
2 years ago

Millions of £ as well I should add that they can spend on space programmes and arms instead of providing running water, education or sewage to their populations

Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen (@guest_622272)
2 years ago

Then they blame those problems on British colonialism.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake (@guest_622280)
2 years ago

You are right India has its own space programme, we (the UK) cannot afford our own programme, Pakistan gave shelter to the Taliban then retrained them and rearmed them all through the Afgan fiasco while at the same time as taking £millions each year in overseas aide from the UK.
May-be we could use this money we give to India and Pakistan to help finance the aide programme that the Ukraine is going to need.

Klonkie
Klonkie (@guest_622445)
2 years ago

Absolutely agree with you Steven- what an excellent idea!

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622330)
2 years ago

Not one penny to countries that support Russia in any way.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622447)
2 years ago

Quite right Steven ,both are Nuclear Armed, India has a space Agency which launches yet both get Aid from us whilst buying Arms from Russia and have the nerve to be staunch advocate of the Commonwealth can’t have it both ways either Putin or the Commonwealth

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622252)
2 years ago

This is a really good article around the geopolitical balancing act China is undertaking. I think it’s being slightly kind on China, as there are sources and speculation that China did know Russia’s plan in advance ( they had a summit on the 4th Feb and the invasion happened after the Olympics).

But is does show their was a cost to China and it has made it more difficult for them in the short term and maybe even long term if the west becomes more unified and takes on a more defensive posture.

https://thediplomat.com/2022/03/china-cannot-condone-russias-aggression-in-ukraine/

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622259)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I also read somewhere an official in Beijing did use the word “war” instead of “special military operation” as Moscow wishes.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622449)
2 years ago

Yesterday, whilst being interviewed it may have been BBC /Sky News it was a quick slip

Christopher Allen
Christopher Allen (@guest_622282)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Perhaps it is my skewed way of looking at it but I think China’s recent actions show what some have thought for a while, that both countries aren’t as close as their respective media try to make them out to be. The only thing uniting them is their opposition to the US.

Rob
Rob (@guest_622257)
2 years ago

This is the same Army who thought they would be on the Rhine in a week. More like BAOR would have been in Berlin.

farouk
farouk (@guest_622263)
2 years ago

Dont know this will pan out , but a few of the vehicles the Ukrianians have taken out these past few days:
https://i.postimg.cc/rmR77GQw/03.jpg

Last edited 2 years ago by farouk
SwindonSteve
SwindonSteve (@guest_622265)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

Apparently the UkrAF had a pop at the Russian car park north of Kyiv in the last 24hrs. Don’t know what impact it had but it does show they’re not quite out of the game in the air yet. That opens up whole load of questions about the Russian Air Force of course.

farouk
farouk (@guest_622293)
2 years ago
Reply to  SwindonSteve

Yeah, Ive read some reports on that as well, which tends to point in the direction this is what the Ukrainians planned for, bottle up the Russian forces and then hit them hard in the rear. drag out the bun flight as long as possible in which to allow a UN sponsored cease fire to come into place. However it seems that Putin angered by the Ukrainian reserve and the support it has recieved from the West has changed plans and decided he is going to take the entire country in which to teach the West, not to mess The… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by farouk
Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622457)
2 years ago
Reply to  SwindonSteve

Hi S Steve apparently, Finnish volunteers have just delivered 150 Drones for the Ukrainians too use against the long convoy approaching Kiev

James
James (@guest_622572)
2 years ago
Reply to  Tommo

The drones will just be for intel as they arent armed ones?

Hopefully Turkey can deliver some more of the armed ones, well sorry sell them some more.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622652)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Hi James I thought that aa well then remember how ISIS adapted just normal run of the mill Drones too be able just to drop Grenades in the Battle of Mosal if things get bad who knows

SwindonSteve
SwindonSteve (@guest_622734)
2 years ago
Reply to  James

Didn’t know that James, hopefully they’ll be the suicide type and packed with explosives

LongTime
LongTime (@guest_622922)
2 years ago
Reply to  SwindonSteve

Pretty much any on the market drone capable of carrying 1.5-2kg can be easily “adapted” to drop grenades or small charges and out to about a 1km range if you don’t care about recovering the drone, just has to have GPS and pre-programmable routing/servo control. Good for stationary soft targets for a resistance. Under radio control could be good in urban warfare for anti personnel. Anti armour requires heavy weight drones just to carry the payload to hurt it, generally Ukraine are only going to get them supplied by another nation. Theoretically with enough commercial parts, a resistance force could… Read more »

Levi Goldsteinberg
Levi Goldsteinberg (@guest_622267)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

Damn. I know the Russians are totally in the wrong here and I’m rooting for them to founder (more than they have, even). But the brutality of tanks cooking off like that is sobering. Poor bloody guys

farouk
farouk (@guest_622304)
2 years ago

Levi wrote: “”But the brutality of tanks cooking off like that is sobering.”” That’s a legacy problem which stems back to the introduction of the T64 and its subsequent spin offs: T72 T80 T90 The reason for this , is due to the use of an auto loader and the positioning of main gun ammunition around the carousel, which if ignited due to enemy action, results in a catastrophic explosion resulting in the turret becoming a very heavy Frisbee. It has taken the Russians until now and the T14 Armata to resolve that weakness. Interestingly other nations such as the Croatians (M-95… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by farouk
Albert Starburst
Albert Starburst (@guest_622275)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

I wonder if there is any chance that the UK and others are quietly, say in Poland, re-arming and assembling the remains of the Ukraine army and airforce and volunteers? I know there is talk of 24 Mig 29’s that Poland may have donated, but is there a chance of putting together a force that then could re-enter Ukraine and start to fight back in a more focused way – particularly from the air – over the coming months?

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622335)
2 years ago

If Biden was awake, he could send retired USMC M1 tanks to Poland/Czech/Slovakia, so they can release their (some stored) T72 to Ukraine. 200+ extra T72 to Ukraine would help make this invasion more costly.

Albert Starburst
Albert Starburst (@guest_622623)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Maybe a few “retired” A10s donated/lend-leased with a scratch team of volunteer “Flying Tiger” pilots to go with them under the Ukraine flag? The Soviets and Chinese did it often enough.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622915)
2 years ago

defensenews has an opinion piece saying US should donate 3 A10 squadrons to Ukraine.

Albert Starburst
Albert Starburst (@guest_623227)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Ouch! That would hurt.

OK. Will read. Just needs to happen very quickly – i.e. needs “volunteer” A10 pilots.

JohninMK
JohninMK (@guest_622388)
2 years ago

The offer of aircraft to Ukraine was made by the EU. NATO had a blue fit and vetoed the plan as being too hazardous. So it looks like no Mig-29s will be crossing the border.

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622435)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Condemnation of Putins murderous actions yet?

James
James (@guest_622654)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

No way I didnt see that in the news.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622694)
2 years ago

Hi Albert,

There was a report on BBC South West that units from our region were deploying to ‘train’ Ukrainian forces a few days ago. My understanding is that we have a training team inside NATO providing training to the Ukrainian Army, probable on NLAW as we are still supplying these.

My guess would be we are running a train the trainers ‘course’ in there somewhere so that the Ukrainians can then build up their resistance capability.

Cheers CR

Donaldson
Donaldson (@guest_622312)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

I’m still personally waiting for some POV NLAW bodycam action, My all accounts it’s proved a devastating weapon

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622331)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

Great, but sadly the Russians have a hell of a lot more.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622342)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

well…they do for the moment ……

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622475)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Well they had 4K total to start with: allegedly.

Of which 2k **might** work on a good day.

The Ukrainians have knocked off 300+ that is 15% of the total force.

I doubt anyone feels safe in a T72 or 80 ATM. So half the job is done.

Corruption is a big problem in Russia and a lot of things that ‘were supplied’ never arrived….spares and munitions…so the number of tanks that work might not be as many as you might think.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622697)
2 years ago

I would add fuel and food to that list of stuff that never arrived, mate.

Given reception that the Russian troops are recieving, even when the ‘win’ I would recon there are a lot of seriously p*****d off Russian troops at the moment. I wonder what they will be telling their families when they get home?

Cheers CR

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622918)
2 years ago

I loved the CCTV of a Russian self propelled gun rolling backwards down the hill into a tree, with a hapless Russian conscript running after it. Not taught how to use the handbrake perhaps?

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622948)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Training doesn’t seem to be that great.

If that happens in peace and quiet what happens under fire?

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622692)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

Hi farouk,

That first picture suggests a top attack weapon targeting the engine comparment. Interesting as that is how NLAW does it – based on the news coverage of the British Army training the Ukrainians prior to the war starting.

CR

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622271)
2 years ago

With the losses Russian armour is taking will it make the MoD even less likely to expand our armoured fleet? So many are calling for expansion of tank numbers but offensively they seem so vulnerable to cheap AT systems, even accounting for Russian mishandling, incompetence, and so on.

Maybe in a NATO defensive scenario where our tanks are hull down in defensive positions holding ground they are still viable, as long as infantry and AA are close by?

Maybe lighter forces with less heavy armour but more fires, movement and AA/AT are the right idea after all?

BobA
BobA (@guest_622285)
2 years ago

I think it’s more the way the RUS are employing them. It’s the equivalent of the Luftwaffe tying fighters to the bombers in the Battle of Britain. We (and the rest of NATO) actually manoeuvre and it’s remarkably hard to find force packets when they open up the battle space. Dispersal and concentration are very difficult to get right but when you do the effect is pretty impressive. When you synchronise and combine the effects across multiple spectrums, tanks are incredibly effective at seizing and holding ground and in mobile defence as a striking force. But, like all assets they… Read more »

BobA
BobA (@guest_622290)
2 years ago
Reply to  BobA

I forgot my main point! As a Light role commander, would I choose to have armour on my side? 100%. Absolutely! an Armoured formation can do in an hour what will take me all day or even longer. They can manoeuvre into the enemy’s rear and completely dislocate him in a way I can’t. Equally I can compliment that by channelling the enemy into killing areas, securing and covering obstacles and slipping into difficult terrain to cause havoc, and remain unseen potentially.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622316)
2 years ago
Reply to  BobA

Hi Bob. Good read thank you.

farouk
farouk (@guest_622333)
2 years ago
Reply to  BobA

Bob wrote:

They can manoeuvre into the enemy’s rear and completely dislocate him in a way I can’t.

The best example of that i can think of is during the Yom Kippur war and dispite the Eygptians having the upper hand after taking the Suez Canal, the IDF crossed it sent across an armoured force and ran riot across the Eygptian rear, cutting off all the forces on the otherside of the canal, and resulting in a huge eygptian defeat.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622701)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

Yeh, and don’t forget what the Panzers did in 1940..! The breakout through the Ardennes was a master stroke, they even had a major traffic jam!

Cheers CR

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake (@guest_622286)
2 years ago

Hello Daniele, One of our Defence ministers was in parliament this morning talking exactly about that, saying that the example of the Ukraine’s defences against Russian armour has justified the MoD position ref reducing the amount of heavy armour we hold. He was replying to a question from the opposition about the UK’s lack of equipment and used this argument to dodge the question.
Again both side of the house are openly talking about 3%GDP but how long the government hold out is open to question.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622303)
2 years ago

He , in my opinion is wrong, and is just seeking to justify their decision.
Equally I maintain others could use whats happening to justify the future development of the Tank…but of course that would cost more…

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake (@guest_622307)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

You will not get an argument against what you are saying from me! The reason I started commenting on this and a few other forums is because I was utterly gutted to see the state of the UK armed forces after working in Africa and the Middle East for 20 odd years I was utterly shocked to see what is left of it, and the total indifference the Political classes from all side of the house and the people in the Civil Service have toward the ruination of what was the best fighting force in the world. The only way… Read more »

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622760)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

He is definately wrong, grizzler. Political rubbish! There is still much development left in the MBT. So I’m go to indulge in a little armchair system design. 🙂 I’d look to develop the ‘core’ vehicle of my system as a MBT with a 130mm smooth bore gun, active defensive aids, autoloader and 3 crew. I would then exploit stuff developed for other capabilities, including the all round vision system as per F35 to give the best close in situational awareness possible. Obviously, I would retain the conventional periscopes as a back up. I might add in a small telescopic mast… Read more »

Rfn_Weston
Rfn_Weston (@guest_622289)
2 years ago

The soft ground is killing the wheeled vehicles & isn’t great for tracked, hence why they are sticking to roads. Putin missed his window in Feb while the ground was still frozen.

He cannot now disperse his armoured forces and the spearhead is basically limited to being 3 vehicles wide on main trunk roads.

Few NLAW’s into the the lead vehicles and bang, you have ground to a halt.

Few more into the flanks of the front of the convoy and you start to cause serious trouble.

Rfn_Weston
Rfn_Weston (@guest_622291)
2 years ago
Reply to  Rfn_Weston

They have a long 4-6 weeks ahead while the ground hardens towards summer…

Rob
Rob (@guest_622299)
2 years ago
Reply to  Rfn_Weston

After the Stalingrad battle the Russians launched an offensive that went all the way to Kharkiv before it got bogged down in the March rasputitsa mud. With their columns strung out in the mud the Germans counterattacked and destroyed a whole tank army. Now if I know that what was Putin thinking about?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622318)
2 years ago
Reply to  Rob

Yes, the Manstein counter offensive using the SS Panzer corps transferred from France. They had also out run their supply lines.
Ukraine does not have a tank corps spare in the west hidden in a forest by any chance?!

Rob
Rob (@guest_622339)
2 years ago

Hi Daniele,

Well Putin seems to think the Uks are Nazis so perhaps they do. Seriously though, this mud and logistics thing, Putin obviously didn’t go to Sandhurst.

Klonkie
Klonkie (@guest_622454)
2 years ago

Logistics have always been the Achilles heel of the Soviets/Russians. To be fair, the distances were vast and in general the infrastructure in Russia was exceptionally poor.

David Steeper
David Steeper (@guest_622466)
2 years ago

It’s more do they have a Manstein hidden somewhere.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622480)
2 years ago

They did have a reasonable number of tanks so they are presumably somewhere!

Truth be told the Ukrainians probably think a pitched tank battle isn’t the way forwards anyway.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622492)
2 years ago

Nope, course not. That’s agreed as the quickest way to defeat.

It’s suggested this column is mostly support vehicles with the Tanks ( presumably ) spread through the formation.

I guess I’m thinking of a Villers Boccage Michael Wittman moment with small groups hitting the formation from the forests.

Perhaps the TB2 will be better.

John
John (@guest_622345)
2 years ago
Reply to  Rfn_Weston

The column of transport vehicles are basically stuck because of poor storage and maintenance of the wheeled vehicles. The poor state of the tyres, on vehicles not regularly used, has led to damage when the air let out to better enable cross country movement. Basically the tyres wall all failed and hence the vehicles are stuck. No spare tyres and no ability to move them forward in 5he massive traffic jams. Time to hit them with artillery and NLAW.

Damo
Damo (@guest_622474)
2 years ago
Reply to  John

I read that twitter thread too. Very enlightening

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622775)
2 years ago
Reply to  John

Really..! That is basic vehicle mainentance surely..! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Lets hope the Ukrainians can find to drones and hit some of that convoy.

Cheers CR

Rob
Rob (@guest_622296)
2 years ago

As always it’s not about armour OR light forces but instead being able to fight an all arms battle. Fighting and coordinating an all arms battle is a very difficult thing to do, as the Russians are finding out to their cost. Perhaps the biggest thing to come out of all this on the purely military side is the success of those fairly cheap Turkish drones which seem to be able to operate really effectively in contested airspace. We should try and get as many of them to the Ukrainians as we can. Oh, and that Russian column, if the… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622317)
2 years ago
Reply to  Rob

GMLRS…just what I was thinking. Have to travel for a day after leaving Poland to get in range I think. But surely possible. How much training is needed to use them?

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622302)
2 years ago

isn’t this somewhwat of a ciruclar arguement – good AT =no need for tanks ..therefore no need for good AT therefore a need for tanks …and so on and so forth. In essence I think it depends what you want to use tanks for and how you use them to achieve that aim. If that aim cannot be achieved by other mechanisms then surely you need to devlop a stratagum to negate the AT both internally and externally to the tank rather than stop using tanks? BTW as an aside I dont agree with wheeled vs. tracked , for me… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622320)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

It is interesting as the Russians/Soviets have happily used both for years. The issue with us regards Strike was that the firepower of the Ajax was tracked and could not deploy long distance to keep up with lightly armed wheeled Boxer.
And I do support having the Tank, I just don’t think they need massively expanding compared to other areas like the RA that do.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622351)
2 years ago

yeah I suppose at the end of the day after the levels of cuts that have been experience something needs to be prioritised (after the carriers of course).
If its RA that provides the Army with more bang for their buck (literally) then thats fine with me.
At the moment it seems they are lurching from one issue to another, and something is needed to focus minds – if this doesn’t provide it – nothing will.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins (@guest_622311)
2 years ago

“With the losses Russian armour is taking will it make the MoD even less likely to expand our armoured fleet?” Agreed, they are already becoming sitting ducks for drones. General Atomics reveals Gambit unmanned aircraft03 MARCH 2022 “GA-ASI’s software and integration systems will support detection and analysis, and provide users with the highest-quality intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance ever possible from an unmanned aircraft. On point out ahead of US Air Force tactical aircraft, Gambit will also be able to sense and track targets of interest, and distribute that information across the battlespace,” GA-ASI said.” https://www.janes.com/defence-news/air-platforms/latest/general-atomics-reveals-gambit-unmanned-aircraft And on the ground. Ukraine… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Nigel Collins
Donaldson
Donaldson (@guest_622313)
2 years ago

My question would be, Do we have a good enough logistic capability to supply what armour we’ve got now?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622360)
2 years ago
Reply to  Donaldson

With the endless cuts to CSS I have no idea for certain. And with only 2 tank regiments shortly.

Britain has always prided itself on its logistics, look how the QEC group deployed. That takes some doing.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622431)
2 years ago

The BAE light tank has been dropped, so that leaves GDLS as the only candidate for the new US Army light/medium tank, if it goes forward.

Marked
Marked (@guest_622643)
2 years ago

I’d say we don’t need to increase uk tank numbers BUT all the challengers should be upgraded, pending that an UOR should see all fitted with active defence.

They form the hard core of our battle group supported by infantry. Anti armour weapons have proved effective and should be deployed liberally around the infantry.

I’d also want to see some dedicated anti armour regiments. Infantry with anti armour weapons supported by armored vehicles with heavier missiles, land brimstone maybe?

We can live without 1000 tanks that some want to see.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622681)
2 years ago
Reply to  Marked

Yes, I’ve been waiting for such anti armour regiments for the RA. Nothing.
So far for the RA “Future Soldier” is cutting conventional artillery again ( by replacing a reg of Light Guns with GMLRS )
That neat con trick then reduces the number of guns needed in the Future Mobile Fires Programme, which was hoped at one time to be for over 100 guns to replace AS90 and some of the LGs.

Agree on the tanks, prioritise the RN and RAF but sort what we have left in the army with modest improvements.

SwindonSteve
SwindonSteve (@guest_622742)
2 years ago

I know you are an ORBAT man, so surely, in the spirit of compromise, all those superfluous cap-badges you go on about should just be kitted out with the required gear?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622870)
2 years ago
Reply to  SwindonSteve

Hi SS. If they were, there would still be no CS or CSS to unite with them to form Brigades from which our BGs are drawn. They’ve all been cut while keeping infantry battalions, 8 of the 31 or so remaining, are being reduced or have been reduced to 250 to 300 men. Combat infantry properly equipped are a must, of course. But on their own a LI battalion is limited. It needs supports. My argument is to cut them and reinvest the manpower into the lacking CS elements. RA, AAC, and so on. Take the army counter battery capability… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622882)
2 years ago
Reply to  SwindonSteve

And to add a bit more context to that, regards the infantry – By your comment of “required gear” I assume you mean an APC or IFV? The problem there is even going back to pre 2010 most infantry are light role. Armoured and Mechanized Infantry have never been numerous. We had 33 infantry battalions recently( some say 32 ) reducing to 31. Of those, 6 have Warrior and are in Armoured Brigades. 3 Have Mastiff and are in Armoured Brigades. That is it regards Infantry with firepower beyond the usual FS Company of 81mm, GPMGs, Javelin, .50s, Snipers, and… Read more »

Pete
Pete (@guest_622757)
2 years ago
Reply to  Marked

Spot on. https://youtu.be/kNGLC1SbVyQ
The multi layer effect of NLaw javelin and 40km reach of Brimstone would provide UK with a real edge. Understand Brimstone III will also have a limited AA capability

Paul T
Paul T (@guest_622849)
2 years ago
Reply to  Marked

Another ‘ easy win ‘ regarding Tank numbers is to perhaps buy back the 38 sold to Oman – a modest amount i know but the whole Fleet needs an Audit,how many have the BA actually got,what is their material condition,how many can realistcally be upgraded to C3 standard ? Maybe a Fleet of 250 – 300 could be achieved.

chris
chris (@guest_622300)
2 years ago

The question to be asked is, would the UK and US pop canned-sunshine over an invasion of the Baltic states?

Some tough conversations must be had in that arena. Fighting a nuclear world war over these small countries seems nuts.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622356)
2 years ago
Reply to  chris

Not to those countries it doesn’t-nor tbh in a greater geo-political sense
Either way in essence wasn’t that the point of MAD?
We in the West seem to have forgotten that now and shat oursleves to a standstill.

JamesD
JamesD (@guest_622473)
2 years ago
Reply to  chris

Well if we didn’t the alliance means shit and Russia can help itself to what it wants

Pete
Pete (@guest_622771)
2 years ago
Reply to  chris

By the same token question would also become should US fight for denmark / Greenland over Arctic disputes or Japan who also has territorial dispute or even Alaska given it used to be Russian. …may seem nuts but defence of Baltic states will be vital.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins (@guest_622308)
2 years ago

Soon to be removed I hope re lead picture. Ukraine conflict: Turkey airlifts additional TB2 UCAVs to Ukraine “The TB2 is a medium-altitude, long-endurance (MALE) unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) that was developed to provide the Turkish Army with a tactical intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance capability. According to Janes All the World’s Aircraft: Unmanned, it is 6.5 m long and has a 12 m wingspan. With a maximum take-off weight of 630 kg, the air vehicle can carry up to 55 kg in mission system and/or weapons payload. Performance specifications give the Bayraktar TB2 a cruising speed of 70 kt,… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by Nigel Collins
farouk
farouk (@guest_622310)
2 years ago

Just when you think you’ve seen everything:

Chris
Chris (@guest_622315)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

It beggars belief that people will accept this sort of thing as truth. It’s not even sliced

Louis
Louis (@guest_622319)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

A whole 30 tonnes of bread!!!!

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622337)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

It doesn’t even replace what starving Russian conscripts have nicked from Ukrainian convenience stores.

Sean
Sean (@guest_622346)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

The anti-vaxx brigade lap things like this up, as their hatred for Western politicians and media means that they have a kinship with Putin and see him as a poor guy forced to do this by NATO.
They’re as mad as a box of frogs.

Coll
Coll (@guest_622417)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

What? I disagree with them, but this logic is something. It sounds like injecting your politics for the sake of it.

Last edited 2 years ago by Coll
Sean
Sean (@guest_622516)
2 years ago
Reply to  Coll

You obviously having been reporting them and having their insane conspiracy pages and groups taken down from social media these last 2 years. I have, and the majority of them have jumped to back Putin on this issue.
It’s nothing to do with politics, it’s to do with insanity.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622358)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

What sort of ratio is that compared to the tons of bombs he’s also delieverd to them…and a lot more quickly.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622482)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

My experience of Cold War Russian bread was that it could be very dangerous dropped from a height…..

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622531)
2 years ago

My home cookd version is the same – as my toes can testify- steel toe capped books are not a fashion statement in my kitchen …

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622321)
2 years ago

One analyst says the Russian Army is taking its time, bringing up supplies, so they can do a massive artillery attack on Kiev. Range of the bulk of Russian artillery is 24km, so expect them to sit that far away from Kiev. My question, is what will the free world do, if Putin orders mass artillery on Kiev, with inevitable heavy civilian casualties? Will NATO finally protect Lviv then?

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622536)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

I really hope so. But just more harsh words while letting Putin get on with it.

DFJ123
DFJ123 (@guest_622322)
2 years ago

We need to give the Ukrainian’s NLOS stand-off anti-tank weapons. It will scatter the Russian armoured assaults before the Russian’s can take their main strategic targets in the South and East and it will make it extremely uncomfortable to hold onto anything they’ve taken so far. Without these kind of weapons the Ukrainian’s will get ground down, the Russian’s can achieve the territory goals and the Ukrainian’s won’t stand a chance of retaking anything.

farouk
farouk (@guest_622324)
2 years ago

Wow, the Russians use the 2K22 Tunguska a Russian tracked self-propelled anti-aircraft system armed with two 30mm cannons and missiles, the Ukrainians came across 4 which had been abandoned and decided to put them out of action. Picture below is the before and this link takes you to the after.

The question i have to ask is why were 4 such vehicles simply abandoned
They cost $16 million a pop, thats $64 million just gone up in smoke.

Last edited 2 years ago by farouk
Sean
Sean (@guest_622347)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

Logistics again?

farouk
farouk (@guest_622353)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

Pity the bloke who signed for them on the Russian equivalent of a 1033

Last edited 2 years ago by farouk
Barry Larking
Barry Larking (@guest_622362)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

Defective or defected? I suspect morale is going to be an issue. On that front, I hope someone has a word about putting captured Russian soldiers on camera. Not to be encouraged.

farouk
farouk (@guest_622374)
2 years ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

Whilst I totally agree, Its easy for us far from the FEBA to quote chapter and verse in which to try and claim the moral highground to a people who are literally fighting for their survival. Especially when we have seen the Russians not bothering one jot and have no issues blatting urban areas simply because they can. On that note, I’ve not seen the Ukrainians mistreating their captures (no doubt with an eye towards garnering public support across Russia) as I started with, it doesn’t make it right, but then I have a glass of red next to me, a warm… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by farouk
Barry Larking
Barry Larking (@guest_622384)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

Thank you. My uncle Jack rescued a German aristo caught whilst in the 8th Army chasing after Rommel. He gave him a lift to base on his motorbike. I think urban warfare is always and everywhere very rough and all armies kill men who have surrendered. but if the Ukrainians don’t allow themselves to be provoked all the better.

Cats are rightly associated with witches and the forces of darkness. Merlot or Pinot Noir?

farouk
farouk (@guest_622390)
2 years ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

BL wrote:

Cats are rightly associated with witches and the forces of darkness.

Mrs Miggins is a softie, and for some very strange reason has a huge fan base amongst our friends which explains why she receives more mail than I. ( i kid you not) as for associated with the forces of darkness, she has a habit of jumping on the bed, at 3 am then gravitating onto me in which to find a warm spot to settle down, whilst vocally expressing what a victim she is  

Merlot or Pinot Noir?
Pinotage

Klonkie
Klonkie (@guest_622488)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

a nice SA Pinotage Mate!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622425)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

😀👍

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622439)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

I think it might be a modern version of the 1588 Spanish Armada. They were stuck in port in Spain for ages. By the time they got provisions on the last ship, the first ship provisioned had run out & they had to start over again. Eventually, they cracked it & got to sea. The Russians have so much stuff, that they are having problems, but we should not crow, as when the Russians do eventually get stocked, they will probably launch a vast lengthy artillery strike on Kiev, that will shock the civilised world.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622791)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Good point, sadly!

CR

ChariotRider
ChariotRider (@guest_622787)
2 years ago
Reply to  farouk

May be the crews decided to go home!

They are so badly supported they are steeling food, running out of fuel and on top of that apparently were not told they were going to war. So I guess the welcome they are getting from the Ukrainians is not exactly expected either!

Given that many younger people in Russia apparently do not support the war I would be surprised if that didn’t stretch into the army as well!

So may be a few have decided to clear off!

Cheers CR

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay. (@guest_622338)
2 years ago

I’m feeling incredibly frustrated as the days pass. I totally understand why we are not engaging Russian forces. But it’s no help whatsoever to the poor Ukraine people who have had their lives totally turned upside-down, knowing full well knobody is coming over the hill to save them. No British Army, No US Marines, No French, German, Polish troops. Nothing. All that military might, all those fantastic weapon systems that we are told we need so much, sat doing nothing. Russia will be in a very bad way at the end of this. But ultimately, short of a miracle, Ukraine… Read more »

Sean
Sean (@guest_622350)
2 years ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

I feel the same… it feels like 1939 and standing by and watching as the Polish cavalry bravely took on Hitler’s tanks.
Except back then, the western powers had a spine.

Klonkie
Klonkie (@guest_622450)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sean

Well, yes and no Sean. They declared war on Germany, but did nothing to support Poland.

Sean
Sean (@guest_622512)
2 years ago
Reply to  Klonkie

The ultimatum handed to Germany was to do with pulling their troops out of Poland. When they didn’t, Britain and then France declared war. Going to war because you’ve been invaded is pretty damn supportive.

Paul T
Paul T (@guest_622416)
2 years ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

I think if what’s happening to Kharkiv is in some way a pointer to what will happen to Kiev if the Government doesn’t capitulate,a limited Western Intervention will be inevitable,despite all the implications that entails.Whether it will be under the auspices of NATO,the EU or the UN something like a No-Fly Zone will be declared,maybe disguised as opening Corridor’s for the movement of refugees.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622533)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul T

Yes I tend to agree – as long as the UN pulls its finger out – and the yanks don’t baulk at their necessary deployment. As I’ve said previously on here at the end of the day this hiding behind ‘they’re not in NATO’ bullshit must surely stop at some point. We are watching a large democratic East European country being systematically destroyed by a bully & surely something must be done. If not whats to stop Putin rolling onto the next ‘country not in Nato’ and the next…. At what point do we decide to get involved – its… Read more »

Frank62
Frank62 (@guest_622541)
2 years ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

WIth you in that Robert. Our military supplies & sanctions are just sticking plasters of our inaction. We’re letting Putin get away with murder.

Cymbeline
Cymbeline (@guest_622340)
2 years ago

I’m just taking a few precautions myself, My thinking is once he’s achieved his objectives in Ukraine Putin will then look to take revenge on the West for the sanctions imposed. My thoughts are banks will be targeted first and cashpoints will go down, also card transactions will be hit so unless you have cash its going to be hard to buy things like food so I’ve tucked some pennies under the mattress for when required, Also expect them to go after the power grid so have been to Millets and brought a cheap gas cooker and gas supply to… Read more »

JohninMK
JohninMK (@guest_622396)
2 years ago
Reply to  Cymbeline

Make sure you have small change as well as notes.

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622433)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Condemnation of Putin please?

Klonkie
Klonkie (@guest_622453)
2 years ago
Reply to  Airborne

Good luck with that Mate! Deafening silence from that quarter!

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622476)
2 years ago
Reply to  Klonkie

I know mate, flogging a dead horse but isn’t it sad that such trolls, like this one and Kayaker, come on decent sites and churn out there troll garbage! And they think that we can’t clock them doing it! The thing with this clown is, have you noticed, no real in depth comments like he was spewing before, only irrelevant one liners or one paragraph about a single item! It’s a known way of stepping back, getting into a conversation with contributors who haven’t seen previous guff, gain a level of “trust” then back to previous vomit inducing rhetoric! I… Read more »

Klonkie
Klonkie (@guest_622489)
2 years ago
Reply to  Airborne

They are sad individuals. Stay safe A!

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622585)
2 years ago
Reply to  Klonkie

And you mate 👍

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622510)
2 years ago
Reply to  Airborne

I actually looked again at Kayakers history today. Every post. Flippin hell.😳
Yes I remain civil but your eye for outing them is superb.
That is probably reflected in me having remained a civilian and you going on to do what you did, giving you the killer eye. Respect. As always. 👍

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622582)
2 years ago

These killer eyes are now getting worn out and need glasses now when driving 😂 cheers mate

Barry Larking
Barry Larking (@guest_622526)
2 years ago
Reply to  Airborne

You have a talent for going after them. Good show!

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622583)
2 years ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

They annoy me, ruining decent conversations and infesting the internet! Cheers Barry.

David Steeper
David Steeper (@guest_622469)
2 years ago
Reply to  Airborne

People have rent and bills to pay play nice !!!

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622584)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Since the double is now worth 7 pebbles-1, rent is harder for them to pay and the bucket of spuds is now going on the black market!

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622586)
2 years ago
Reply to  Airborne

Double? Bloody predictive txt, should say the bloody rouble 💩

Barry Larking
Barry Larking (@guest_622525)
2 years ago
Reply to  Airborne

Nice try. As if!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622520)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Hi John.

Mr Nice, Mr Nasty routine. Talk with me, if not Airborne. I’m Mr Nice. Why do you not condemn Putin’s actions with this invasion? Do you support his aims regards Ukraine?

Barry Larking
Barry Larking (@guest_622363)
2 years ago

Thanks for all your hard work George. Another lengthy thread and no sign of JohninMK. Perhaps waiting for the victory parade in Moscow?

Chris
Chris (@guest_622460)
2 years ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

Previous comment from cymbeline

Last edited 2 years ago by Chris
Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622478)
2 years ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

He is here but keeping quiet in regard to his previous build up of chuff! Kayaker is one as well, so easy to spot! These clowns are to trolling what the Russkie toms on Ukraine are to decent soldiering!!!! Pretty Wank!!!

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622485)
2 years ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

You spoke too soon..

Rob
Rob (@guest_622365)
2 years ago

Reports of a landing force approaching Odessa. Lets hope the Uks have got from NATO and can use some anti ship missiles from the shore. Sink those amphibious assets and that will be 2000 more Russian’s who don’t go home.

JohninMK
JohninMK (@guest_622397)
2 years ago
Reply to  Rob

Many of the beaches are mined and there are sea mines out there as well. It looks like a small Estonian cargo ship found one of the latter.

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622438)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

putin, condemnation yet?

Barry Larking
Barry Larking (@guest_622527)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

So, … Good news then?

JohninMK
JohninMK (@guest_622656)
2 years ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

It takes a perverted mind to even think that. No merchant ship loss at sea should ever be regarded in that light.

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_623045)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Any comments on your boss invasion of Ukraine? Condemnation or just continued ignorance and hope the fact we all know your a troll goes away? Pathetic.

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_623046)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

It takes a perverted mind not to condemn the invasion of Ukraine by tiny dick Putin?

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622534)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Did they give it back – or was it finders keepers…

JohninMK
JohninMK (@guest_622653)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

It sank so it will be marine salvage if anyone is brave enough to risk another mine. Sadly it looks like only 2 of the 6 crew were saved.

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_623047)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Troll time, stop with the chuff, and condemnation of Putin please? So you support the illegal invasion of Ukraine and the authorised murder of Ukrainian people!

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_623202)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Where your othe avatar kayaker? He’s a bit quiet, is he in the potatoe queue?

David Lloyd
David Lloyd (@guest_622368)
2 years ago

It must be clear to everyone now that Putin has actually decided to launch WW3. The catalyst would seem to be the election of the elderly pacifist Biden as POTUS. This week at his SOTU address he told the world that America would not get directly involved in this war (“no American boots on the ground in Ukraine”) and (“we cannot set up a no-fly zone because that would put American pilots directly against Russian pilots”) which must have cheered Putin up considerably. President Zelensky has proved to be an outstanding wartime leader. If NATO will not call Putin’s bluff… Read more »

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622729)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

If Zelensky holds out, I hope the UK gives him an honorary knighthood.

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622739)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

I’m sure he will be chuffed….

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622925)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Yes, I know, but this is a propaganda war as well & anything to show support & keep up morale.

dan
dan (@guest_622369)
2 years ago

I wonder if the reason the Russians aren’t using all their high end EW gear right now in Ukraine is because they know US/British Rivet Joints, ect are in the area sucking up all the electronic emissions inside Ukraine and Putin doesn’t want to use all his toys in this war until he absolutely has too?

JohninMK
JohninMK (@guest_622401)
2 years ago
Reply to  dan

On the ‘only use what you have to’ principle. But the Germans have been complaining that their satellite communications systems that they use to control the wind farms have been rendered inoperative, so some EW seems to be in play.

Mind you the Ukrainian mobile phone and telephone networks plus internet still seem to be up and running so the strategy the Russians are using doesn’t seem to need a communications blackout. Perhaps because they are a useful source of intel.

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622437)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Or the EW kit your Russkie pals have is shite, or the blokes operating it are shite, one or a combination of both! Any condemnation of Putins invasion yet Mr Troll?

Damo
Damo (@guest_622477)
2 years ago
Reply to  Airborne

You’re more likely to get a reach around from Esther Rantzen than get condemnation of Putin from Johninmk

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622486)
2 years ago
Reply to  Damo

Esther….grrrrrrr……now your talking 🤮😂👍!

dave12
dave12 (@guest_622540)
2 years ago
Reply to  Damo

lol

dave12
dave12 (@guest_622548)
2 years ago
Reply to  dan

dan it really comes across you Russian trolls are so simple , your nation is getting its ass kicked with the civilized world shunning you lol, your out of a job soon me thinks.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622392)
2 years ago

It seems the UKR delegation went to the talks using 2 Polish Black Hawks linked to their SF community.

Clearly intriguing things going on behind the scenes as that’s actual NATO hardware.

I think they used UKR Mils for 1st flight other day?

JohninMK
JohninMK (@guest_622402)
2 years ago

Correct. This meeting was near the Polish border whilst the previous one was much further east.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622408)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Ah, I didn’t realise the location was different. And correcting myself, 1st meeting was a Belorussian Mil not Ukrainian.

dave12
dave12 (@guest_622539)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

How you doing Johnski ? lol enjoying your nation Russias poor performance so far ? and what is Russia’s worst Nostradamus going to predict now? lol

Levi Goldsteinberg
Levi Goldsteinberg (@guest_622498)
2 years ago

Do you think maybe they’re using NATO helicopters and pilots as a guarantee the delegation won’t be shot down?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622514)
2 years ago

It’s an obvious thought, yes.

Tom Keane
Tom Keane (@guest_622395)
2 years ago

Nothing… nothing and evening more nothing. The world sits by and does nothing, whilst a tyrannical dictator does whatever he wants. As said before and by others, Putin, his lap dogs, oligarchs or more correctly thieves, have had 8 years since the seizure of the Crimea, to hide, launder and move their money in preparation for this. London is awash with communist stolen money, and those who have benefitted from it, been bought off by it, were loathe to do anything about this from the off. So now Ukraine burns and will eventually Secom to communist dictatorship, and the world… Read more »

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622441)
2 years ago
Reply to  Tom Keane

Cameron & Osborne fell over backwards to get dodgy Chinese money into London.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622537)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Yep , and I believe the current government should also be looking to minimise the Chinese involvment in the UK economy and infrastrcuture now before we end up in the same , or worse, position in a few years time- I hoped COVID would instigate this tbh it appeasr not. It may be too late to extract us completely but never too late to make effort to ensure it gets no worse unlike how they refused to act with Russian money until we get to this stage. BTW I do wonder if China are watching how sanctions are implemented by… Read more »

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622731)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

I think the Chinese are pissed off that all that money put into “belt & road” to get Chinese goods to Europe, has gone up in smoke (& sanctions).

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622467)
2 years ago
Reply to  Tom Keane

To be honest neither the Russians or Chinese are communists they are facist corporatists. Communism died a very long time ago. But for all practical sense it makes no difference, facist and communist generally leads to the same outcome…it’s just communism has a more encompassing vision of utopia and fascism tends to have a more restrictive ( blond hair blue eyes etc) vision of utopia, both always end in a totalitarian hell ( well according to us liberals anyways).

David Lloyd
David Lloyd (@guest_622403)
2 years ago

It is now clear that the precipitate American withdrawal from Afghan – a NATO operation – without consulting allies was a gross geopolitical blunder by Biden.

The leadership of NATO should announce that unless Putin accepts an immediate ceasefire and begins a withdrawal in 3 days, Ukraine will be accepted as a member of NATO and a no-fly zone will be imposed. That is what i suspect Kennedy would have done, call Putin’s nuclear bluff with brinkmanship. If we don’t, the Baltic states will be next – after having lost a brave ally while we prevaricate.

Last edited 2 years ago by David Lloyd
chris
chris (@guest_622451)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

You draw the red lines in front, not behind.

The West was out maneuvered on Ukraine, It’s already in progress. The US/UK intel was screaming their heads off about an invasion, but no one else believed them. The German Intel director was literally caught on the ground in Kiev when flights cancelled.

The best thing would be to turn UKRAINE into Russias Afghanistan, right on their door step, with violence and unrest spreading into Russia.

Draw the line somewhere else and prepare to defend that.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622462)
2 years ago
Reply to  chris

Yes, agree. The red line is a NATO country.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622538)
2 years ago

I believe the red line should be the next country- NATO or otherwise.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622463)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

The hawk in me wants to agree with you. But the father of 3 kids cannot. We need to draw a line yes, but we need to stabilise the world a bit first and that’s going to take a few years of NATO steadily hardening the lines. If we went hard now I think Putin would just not believe it and cross the line. I think we are going to have to brace ourselves for a steady push until everyone understands that the western resolve is hardened again. If Putin is wise he ( and China ) will probably strength… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622645)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan

What is he going to cross the line with in terms of conventional forces? If Vlad went toe to toe with NATO the Russian army wouldn’t last more than a few hours. It would be wiped with air power never mind small teams of highly trained ground forces taking it apart piece by piece. The Russian airforce would go first as it is mostly superannuated junk. The navy other than the subs isn’t worth worrying about. The subs are an issue but there are enough resources in NATO to deal with them. Unfortunately I think we do need ‘to do… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622671)
2 years ago

I agree with convention forces NATO has plenty. But with complete nut jobs like Putin and his government it’s what else will they do. Remembering back to the Cold War, I never actual thought I was going to get obliterated by nuclear weapons as both side had been stable for 40 odd years. This Russia. Government, who knows…I think there is potential for him to go nuclear. We do need to stop him, but not were he is now as I think it could push him over the line. But I think NATO should be drawing red lines that are… Read more »

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622732)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Redline should be old Polish/Slovakian lands around Lviv/Lvov. The Russians are nowhere near there yet. NATO needs to get there first.

David Lloyd
David Lloyd (@guest_622415)
2 years ago

Russian Major General Andrei Sukhovetsky reported as KIA in Ukraine by Russian media. Hit by a sniper!

“Andrei Sukhovetsky was the commanding general of the Russian 7th Airborne Division and a deputy commander of the 41st Combined Arms Army, and by far the most senior Russian figure to have died in the conflict so far.

A military source said Maj Gen Sukhovetsky had been killed by a sniper”

David Steeper
David Steeper (@guest_622470)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Good things happen to good people. 😉

Last edited 2 years ago by David Steeper
Airborne
Airborne (@guest_622483)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

A sniper or the usual removal from post due to the Airborne lads recent failure towards Kyiv? Removed/replaced from post aka combat casualty?

Rob
Rob (@guest_622487)
2 years ago
Reply to  Airborne

And what a Russian airborne operation it was. Let’s all fly in to the capitals airport and drive to the parliament to take the surrender. It would be like the Allies starting D-Day by dropping on Berlin.

Probably shot for incompetence.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622542)
2 years ago
Reply to  Rob

Maybe he believed Putins rhetoric above them being saviours?
Or maybe Putin wanted him removed and decided to send him on a hiding to nothing- or am I thinking too much….

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke (@guest_622647)
2 years ago
Reply to  Rob

It was totally crazy by the sound of things.

Lordtemplar
Lordtemplar (@guest_622448)
2 years ago

Why have Abramovich’s (& other crooks) assets not been seized? Seems like they are given all the time to divest.

Jonathan
Jonathan (@guest_622452)
2 years ago
Reply to  Lordtemplar

If you were being a cynic you may think that’s the point. Money does after all talk, especially in the city where money is king.

Jay
Jay (@guest_622471)
2 years ago
Reply to  Lordtemplar

New movie ‘ Enemy at the Gates ‘ Ukraine version coming our way soon!

Tom Keane
Tom Keane (@guest_622479)
2 years ago

Time for NATO to muck in and help Ukraine. Admit Ukraine to NATO, then declare war on Russia. Establish a no fly zone over Ukraine, torch that 40km military convoy, and tell adolf putin to stand down, get out of Ukraine, or face destruction.

Jay
Jay (@guest_622493)
2 years ago
Reply to  Tom Keane

Unfortunately Putin is so unstable now he’d order a nuke strike…we can only pray his military disobeys him.

dave12
dave12 (@guest_622521)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay

My worries too and that his tables get ether further away from his adviser’s .

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622736)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay

I think dear leader Putin might fall down the stairs, several times, if he tried to order the use of nuclear weapons.

Lordtemplar
Lordtemplar (@guest_622495)
2 years ago

Begining to think that the lack of Russian planes is the sky is a way for Russia to preempt a UN no fly zone. Because you dont need a no fly zone, if there are no enemy planes.
It’s not like a no fly zone can stop arti and cruise missiles, what Ukraine really needs is Iron Dome not a no fly zone
My 2 cents

Jay
Jay (@guest_622502)
2 years ago
Reply to  Lordtemplar

Iron Dome would certainly be very useful for them at strategic locations, not sure Israel would like upsetting Russia though, I haven’t seen any reaction of Israel to this, not sure what their vote was in the recent UN decree

Lordtemplar
Lordtemplar (@guest_622507)
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay

Israel abstained for security council vote to denounce Russian invasion of Ukraine but voted for cease fire during the 2nd vote in general assembly
Iron dome was funded by US, not sure this is just Israel’s call to make.

Last edited 2 years ago by Lordtemplar
Jay
Jay (@guest_622509)
2 years ago
Reply to  Lordtemplar

Interesting, certainly not heard anything about it though, someone in higher echelons must have mentioned it as being useful. Maybe they don’t want it falling into Russian hands and taking the tech away, seems most likely scenario.

farouk
farouk (@guest_622575)
2 years ago
Reply to  Lordtemplar

The problem Israel has, is it has Syria, Hezb-allah, Hamas all funded by iran sat next door. Over the past few years Iran has funded all of the above in which to stock up with Missiles (we saw something of this last year, when Hamas lobbed 4000 missiles into Israel, not bad for a statelet which I am told is udner the worse seige possible) of late Hezballah has been retrofitting its dumb missiles with a GPS caperability . Inside Syria not far from the Golan, Iran has been building up its offensive caperability. (which explains the rash of IDF… Read more »

Last edited 2 years ago by farouk
dave12
dave12 (@guest_622500)
2 years ago

Where’s Uyla ? Wheres JohninMK ? where are the Russian’s on this website who believed there own BS so much they got it sooo wrong , LMAO!!!!!

Lordtemplar
Lordtemplar (@guest_622508)
2 years ago
Reply to  dave12

Putler probably cut their access to western sites. 😂

dave12
dave12 (@guest_622517)
2 years ago
Reply to  Lordtemplar

lol yes .

Gunbuster
Gunbuster (@guest_622571)
2 years ago
Reply to  Lordtemplar

more likely that Anonymous probably cut their access…

JohninMK
JohninMK (@guest_623057)
2 years ago
Reply to  Lordtemplar

No, he doesn’t control Vodaphone fiber here in MK yet.

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_623193)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Troll yaaaawn time!

Ron Stateside
Ron Stateside (@guest_622511)
2 years ago
Reply to  dave12

The comments on this article are mostly ridiculous Putin troll type stuff. Too much Russian Ribena for a lot of your peers! The Russian economy is getting destroyed. They have exhibited planning so poor it looks like sabotage, their equipment is poorly maintained, they have suffered staggering losses. Moral is low fighting Slavic brothers. They don’t have enough precision munitions so they fly low and are able to get picked off with Stingers which won Charlie Wilson’s war. They don’t control the airspace a week in. TB2s take out Buks. Javelins and NLaws can take out their armor. Ukraine is… Read more »

dave12
dave12 (@guest_622519)
2 years ago
Reply to  Ron Stateside

My word Ron you have summed it up , well said , and who will argue with that ? maybe some desperate Russian troll who still has a job lol

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622550)
2 years ago
Reply to  Ron Stateside

Crypro currency – touted by anarchists and those that seek to subvert the Global economy, People like Elon Musk who hide behind the premise that its ‘for the people’ its not- does anyone here puport to understand it? Rumours are the Chinese have been buying gold in secret (as the totals don’t match whats in the world) and are planning to start up a crypto currency backed by gold… they will then control the worlds economy. Sounds like a conspiracy theory – yes I suppose it does but Im no economic genius- far from it. I dont understand it so… Read more »

Martin
Martin (@guest_622559)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

Problem is for any transaction system be it CIPS or crypto as soon as you let Russian banks in you yourself get sanctioned. That’s why Chinese banks would not trade with Iran. If China needs to choose trade with Russia or trade with the west it will choose the west. Russia is tiny in comparison and China will never be as daft as Germany to accept a high percentage of its energy coming from a country like Russia with delusions of grandeur.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622740)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

There is the Gold held by the Chinese central bank, that is declared. However, there are rumours that the Chinese military are holding up to 4000 tons of Gold, off the books.

Ron Stateside
Ron Stateside (@guest_622987)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

I understand crypto enough to think it should be illegal. The idea seems to be, let’s create another currency (even though it’s not needed), and make it anonymous so criminals can use it to launder money. The real kicker is, instead of printing money, massive computing power is used to solve pointless riddles (effectively like guessing passwords by trying billions of combinations). This is leading to coal plants that were set to close all of a sudden having a ton of new business with crypto miners needing a power source for their roomfuls of servers. I’ve honestly never heard of… Read more »

Sid Morley
Sid Morley (@guest_622574)
2 years ago
Reply to  Ron Stateside

A good article – what I am failing to understand is why aren’t the Ukrainians hitting that convoy either with artillery or more air power, surely moral from the Russian point of view would be sapped. Even hit and run tactics picking stuff of NLAWs would put further strain on the Russians.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster (@guest_622590)
2 years ago
Reply to  Sid Morley

They are hitting it… But they are also hitting the supply columns trying to get to the stranded column.
The column isn’t going anywhere.
Its sat there burning up fuel and resources which Ivan cannot easily replace. When they try to move supplies then Partisan teams and SOF hit the supply trucks in the rear.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622738)
2 years ago
Reply to  Ron Stateside

Recently, stolen bitcoin was returned to its rightful owner by the FBI. Holding bitcoin may be anonymous, but the second you try to spend (stolen) bitcoin, you can be tracked.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622544)
2 years ago

Breaking news Biggest Nuclear power plant in Europe has caught fire after an attack by Russia troop- he may not need a nuke strike after all!.
If THAT doesnt force UN/US/NATO’s hand in this debacle nothing will.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/top-wrap-1-europes-largest-nuclear-power-plant-fire-after-russian-attack-mayor-2022-03-04/

Last edited 2 years ago by grizzler
Taffybadger
Taffybadger (@guest_622549)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

I don’t know about you but I don’t want WW3

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622634)
2 years ago
Reply to  Taffybadger

Neither do I -surely thats the point I was making. One of the reasons people don’t want WW3 because of the Nuclear ‘threats’ Putin has made . He has effectively neutered the Wests response to this crisis-MAD has been shown up for the empty vassel it has probably always been.. However by bombing a nuclear power plant in order to be able to cut electricity off (which I am assumng he will do for the other 3 power plants in Ukraine) he is in effect ignoring it completely. Therefore if the West STILL wants to ensure a nuclear tragedy doesn’t… Read more »

OldSchool
OldSchool (@guest_622558)
2 years ago

I found this on a recent wargame of the conflict shortly before it occurred interesting.

https://warontherocks.com/2022/03/the-wargame-before-the-war-russia-attacks-ukraine/

geoff
geoff (@guest_622560)
2 years ago

Good morning Gents. There is only one question that matters-how do we get rid of Putin and replace him with a sane person? The fate of the world lies in the answer to that question.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster (@guest_622589)
2 years ago
Reply to  geoff

He likes to drink tea…
Send him some PG Tips…
Where the P is short for Polonium 🫖☢️

geoff
geoff (@guest_622591)
2 years ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

😂😂

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622932)
2 years ago
Reply to  geoff

Perhaps his PR people could suggest it would be good for his image to take his shirt off & wrestle with a Tiger. A very big hungry Tiger.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63 (@guest_622576)
2 years ago

Just seeing on the news those bloody idiots in Russian tanks shelling a nuclear power plant… what a bunch of f***”wits! It maybe time for some ATGMs right in their faces!!
Europe, NATO may have to up the anti with this, vwe can’t just watch over the fence. I guess Putin may actually want that too in a perverse kind of way. Stay strong 🇺🇦!!

Gunbuster
Gunbuster (@guest_622578)
2 years ago

As I said on a previous post Twitter (and Telegram) is your friend though with caveats If you can be objective and separate the Wheat from the Chaff their are some excellent sources of OSINT info out there. Google Translator is also a great help! An interesting one yesterday was a Russian ambulance truck that was part of a convoy heading south. The convoy was hit front and back and the Ru troops where killed or legged it. As the Ukrainian territorial “Partisans” inspected the remains of the convoy so they could loot it they found an abandoned ambulance truck… Read more »

Jacko
Jacko (@guest_622601)
2 years ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Spot on👍

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622676)
2 years ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Exactly what happened to the Germans in WW2, the “Partisans” controlled the countryside.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622744)
2 years ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

Love the posted CCTV of starving Russian troops looting convenience stores for crisps, Choccy bars & cola.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins (@guest_622587)
2 years ago

It’s a pity Ukraine does not possess a few of these.

The A-10 Warthog Is Getting Some Lethal Upgrades

“Upgraded A-10s, coupled with unmanned aerial vehicles, could work together to suppress enemy air defenses and bomb tank columns.”

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a28928821/a-10-weapons/

Martin
Martin (@guest_622624)
2 years ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins (@guest_622707)
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin

Many thanks, Martin, In light of the attack on the Ukrainian nuclear facility, he must be stopped at all costs as soon as possible the A10 would be a very good place to start including a no-fly exclusion zone over the country.

The dynamics have changed and we must do the same.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster (@guest_622588)
2 years ago

The UK MOD Defence Intelligence media team is kicking some serious a*se in the information war.

https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1499492342499323914?t=0g4KuDKWCaPG-yS6FeZm0w&s=19

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake (@guest_622599)
2 years ago

Only my 10 bobs worth, but I think the Northern assault is a faint, he wants to link up the Crimea with the Donbas so he has a land bridge and if he can take Odessa then he will affectively have cut off the Ukraine from its ports so would have a substantial lose to its ability to export via the Black sea.

Martin
Martin (@guest_622625)
2 years ago

He does not have the logistics to launch main invasion from the south.

JohninMK
JohninMK (@guest_623060)
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin

Another big convoy is being assembled in Crimea currently, videos are starting to appear.

Jacko
Jacko (@guest_623161)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

The problem with your convoys is the drivers apparently just sod off and disappear! This northern one IF it is carrying‘supplies’ for the front troops how come the drivers etc are going hungry? I know for a fact I would have raided the back for grub. Where are the bivi sites and defensive positions that any western army would have set up? AFV’s just left where they are! Again where did they troops go?

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_623194)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

More targets, useless shite troop and kit. You must be proud troll boy.

JohninMK
JohninMK (@guest_623058)
2 years ago

Land bridge from Russia to Crimea now seized. Work is expected to start for real on the Crimea west section next week.

Steven Alfred Rake
Steven Alfred Rake (@guest_623128)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

After your rabid dog has been put down all the little dogs will have to go for a check-up, don’t forget it is now 15 years in jail for spreading lies in your metropolis.

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_623197)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Yaaawn troll time! Why even bother posting as you don’t actually say anything just do your troll tick boxing. Ah it’s getting harder to access the bucket of potatoes now as the queue is getting bigger! Not a great call from Vlad Hitler eh.

Jacko
Jacko (@guest_623228)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

What’s the real work then? A bit of ethnic cleansing perhaps?

simon alexander
simon alexander (@guest_622603)
2 years ago

Why not just immediately freeze all golden visa assets in UK ‘friend or foe’ and work out detail afterwards.
Seizing Chelsea FC rather than allowing the disposal would be a stronger message to the Putin bully boys.

Martin
Martin (@guest_622626)
2 years ago

Problem is the bill of rights, you can’t just take peoples property off them because you don’t like them politically. Even if someone commits a crime they don’t lose their property. They probably need new legislation but in the UK it will always be open to legal challenge and our Supreme Court is made up of top legal experts not easily swayed by political arguments. It one thing to freeze assets it’s another to take them.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622749)
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin

We need a Ukraine emergency bill to be speeded through Parliament. Seize all Russian Assets in the UK. Prohibit unregistered foreign agents in the UK. Ban lawyers from protecting rich Russians.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622762)
2 years ago
Reply to  Martin

Proceeds of crime act , is a great tool the UK courts use to size any asset purchased through illegal acts monies ,property, luxury items cars, jewellery works of Art , even the kitchen sink Martin

David Lloyd
David Lloyd (@guest_622606)
2 years ago

Good morning all It’s often said that truth is the first casualty of war. Overnight numerous reports say that Putin has blocked the BBC website, social media websites including Facebook and Google Play and is preparing to impose martial law on Russia. Shortwave radio has been a go-to vehicle to reach listeners in conflict zones for decades, unfortunately the Beeb retired it’s European short wave transmitters 14 years ago. However, the BBC has found some broadcast kit and will be transmitting it’s World Service news on shortwave, starting today. The BBC’s shortwave radio broadcast can be found on 15735 kHz… Read more »

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622641)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Unbelievable isn’t it !
I knew they had put back the ‘retirement’ of some comms that included VHF radio channels I believe., maybe this is why.

It will be like the French resistance during WW2 – Brown Fox calling Red Hen, Brown Fox calling Red Hen The Red ballon will be burst tonight I repeat the Red Ballon will be burst tonight …etc etc.

I just bet they are psissed off they can’t charge for the transmission

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622765)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

Too much Allo,Allo by the sound of that transmission Grizzler

Quentin D63
Quentin D63 (@guest_622614)
2 years ago

Open question. Watching the news seemingly getting worse and worse for the Ukrainian’s is there going to a “moral” point where the West should intervene even with the risk of a nuclear exchange which is there anyway? I think there could be chances for the West and Ukraine to counter attack and claw back this country. This is bloody evil what’s going on and all because of one bloody evil man! Why are we beholden to just one man?! Let’s hope someone or something takes him out asap for the 🇺🇦 people and the whole world’s sake! 🙏 🙏 and… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622631)
2 years ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

The trick is not to die. Megalomaniacs are easily provoked. What I would do now is to continue to focus on materiel for Ukraine forces and humanitarian aid. And consult with Nato and the EU about assisting Moldovan forces with boots on the ground with intention of eradicating the Transnistra rebels.
Time to give Vlad some of his own medicine.

Last edited 2 years ago by Paul.P
Quentin D63
Quentin D63 (@guest_622660)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Hi Paul, I sure hope Ukraine’s persistence and the West’s continuation of supplies turns the tide sometime soon. And yes with Moldova, I bet they’d like the Transnistra’s squeezed out of their territory.
I hope too there are eagle eyes on Russian forces in Kaliningrad and all the nasty stuff lurking around there. It would be good to clear Russia from there too but I don’t know the history of this place.
‘Yes “Vlad the blad” (bad English intended) needs to be ko’d!

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622668)
2 years ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

It won’t turn the tide. What we need to do is get pro-active. The EU needs to come of age and send French and German detachments into Moldova, to protect its fledgling democracy and applicant to join the EU. We should contribute on the grounds that there is a clear and present danger to a fledgling European democracy. The French already have troops in Romania. We have Typhoons based there, or did until they redeployed to Estonia I think. We need to put the seed of doubt in Putin’s mind about the success of his grand strategy for recreating the… Read more »

OldSchool
OldSchool (@guest_622730)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Despite the EU thinking that its the inheritor of Charlemagne’s legacy a reality check tells you that the EU couldn’t fight its way out a of a paper bag.

If there’s any heavy lifting to be done militarily in this crisis it won’t be from the EU, France or Germany that’s for sure.

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622748)
2 years ago
Reply to  OldSchool

In the Cuban missile crisis Kruschev put missiles in Cuba to force the US to remove it’s missiles from Turkey. We need to learn from that and put boots on the ground in Moldova. Any 2 EU nations plus the UK.

BigH1979
BigH1979 (@guest_622705)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Exactly this. The trick is not to die. Bottom line – is the current situation worth getting into a Nuclear War for? Because i firmly believe this maniac will press the button if cornered…don’t count on his restraint.

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622743)
2 years ago
Reply to  BigH1979

The problem is that Putin holds all the cards. We have nothing to bargain with. Kennedy had missiles in Turkey he could trade for those in Cuba. We need to escalate in the same way Kruschev did to get rid of the Turkish missiles. I think we should put boots on the ground in Moldova.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622753)
2 years ago
Reply to  BigH1979

So we give in forever? F**K that. Stare Putin down.

BigH1979
BigH1979 (@guest_622766)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

I see we have different viewpoints, fair enough. i absolutely admire the Ukranian defence and completely support extreme sanctions and weapon shipments. But for me it isn’t worth going to potential nuclear war with an unhinged, unstable maniac with his finger hovering over the button. Our red line has always been the Polish/Baltic border not the Ukranian one.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli (@guest_622782)
2 years ago
Reply to  BigH1979

Bravo. My position too.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622939)
2 years ago
Reply to  BigH1979

I have just started reading a book by a Brit, with Russian family, who decided to work there. He was watching Putin on TV, at a big table firing questions at his nervous regional governors. He though “I’ve seen this before”, then it dawned on him, gangster movies, where the top mafia boss questions his junior gangster underlings. Putin sees himself as the top godfather. You cannot show him any weakness, or he will see you as prey.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622649)
2 years ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Good luck with that- There is an excelent book on the start of WW1 called The Sleepwalkers….it seems very apt we now have Sleepy Joe in the Whitehouse.

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622658)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

As you get older you learn how to manage physical vulnerability. The trick is not to die. Biden is old but smart. The younger man Blinken who has the energy is the mouthpiece. Listen to him to understand what Biden is thinking.

Last edited 2 years ago by Paul.P
Quentin D63
Quentin D63 (@guest_622662)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

I haven’t heard of that book, but will keep an eye out for it. It’s hard to read these days with all this “live war” going on in our living rooms. Nothing compares to the real stuff going on. The guts of the Ukrainian people is really bloody admirable and the Russian forces, they’re bringing great shame and the worlds disgust on their nation. The ordinary Russian people are in quite a bind. Hate to think that Putin is that invincible.
Joe and Harris, how did they get there?

OldSchool
OldSchool (@guest_622727)
2 years ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

.

Last edited 2 years ago by OldSchool
John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622751)
2 years ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

Putin needs to be met by united cold hard unflinching resolve. Let him blink first.

BigH1979
BigH1979 (@guest_622768)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

And if he doesn’t blink?

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622941)
2 years ago
Reply to  BigH1979

He will if we keep our heads & stay resolved.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622793)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Not sure if we haven’t already folded never mind blinked.

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622622)
2 years ago

Russian forces have captured a large nuclear power plant. No damage. The strategy looks like turning off the lights in Kyiv.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622642)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul.P

No Damage – inital reports stated a fire – a v. dangerous ploy by Putin

Quentin D63
Quentin D63 (@guest_622664)
2 years ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Need to knock the Russian’s lights out!

Russ Tarr
Russ Tarr (@guest_622646)
2 years ago

Right, first time poster so please treat me gently! A thought. No matter how much I disagree with it we are not going to provide air cover or enforce a no fly zone. What do people think about NATO moving into Ukraine from the West and creating a stop line in Western Ukraine? The message to Russia is we won’t directly intervene on the ground or in the air but will if attacked. This would provide a safe haven for refugees and civilians, and a clear ‘line in the sand’ from NATO’s perspective. I was but a humble section commander… Read more »

BigH1979
BigH1979 (@guest_622657)
2 years ago

I don’t think Ukraine should join NATO and should never have even been publicly considered for it. The EU makes sense for Ukraine, but NATO is not an economic partnership its a military alliance and serves only one purpose. A step too far and it has bought potential calamity to the world.

Paul.P
Paul.P (@guest_622672)
2 years ago
Reply to  BigH1979

Ukraine is hopefully the midwife of the EU army.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622677)
2 years ago
Reply to  BigH1979

I completely disagree.

David Barry
David Barry (@guest_622667)
2 years ago

What I am missing is people like the SOS Defence saying if we create a no fly zone, and Russian planes fire at us, we will fire back and create WW3. Q. Would the individual Russian pilots be ballsy enough to fire on NATO planes? It seems we are really holding back from a bully when we should be standing up to him. Q. Do you really think those two officers would actually launch nuclear weapons on NATO? I doubt it. Where are our Defence analysts who study the Head Shed of the Opfor and what are they briefing? Nice… Read more »

BigH1979
BigH1979 (@guest_622703)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Barry

Why would the Russians fire first? The question is would NATO be ballsy enough to shoot down Russian planes to enforce a no fly zone? You don’t enforce a NFZ just by being there.

OldSchool
OldSchool (@guest_622726)
2 years ago
Reply to  BigH1979

No one in NATO is even looking like they’re willing to contribute to a no fly zone let alone shoot first at Russian aircraft entering it. Right or wrong its not going to happen unless something or someone radically changes the rules.

David Michael Barry
David Michael Barry (@guest_622755)
2 years ago
Reply to  BigH1979

USAF andPolAF F16 drivers would have no issue going toe to toe. However, others have raised good points. On the other hand, nuclear plants being attacked raises the game and by now a scenario should be getting formed for SEAD suppression of Kaliningrad, Belorus and Rus gbad and their fighters. It’s clear, this is air only and no need to escalate, I’d think RusMil cmdrs would understand our restraint and fight us with each having a hand tied behind the back. Made clear no NATO ground forces moving further East – anywhere. After all, how much of children’s cancer hospitals… Read more »

BigH1979
BigH1979 (@guest_622772)
2 years ago

Agreed, it was a good question. I don’t disagree that individual pilots would be more than willing to take an enemies plane out of the sky, thats what they are trained for. Bit a NFZ would essentially mean NATO taking a decision to start a hot war with Russia. The Russian Air Force would be unlikely to just move along when told to which means that NATO would have to take the first shot.

RobW
RobW (@guest_622745)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Barry

Its not just about Russian aircraft. There is a myriad of air defence systems located in Ukraine and within the borders of Russia and Belarus. No way NATO would try and fly round Ukraine with all that pointing at them. The alternative is to take it all out, which would be NATO declaring war. Not going to happen.

John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_622754)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Barry

Look, I take a tough line against Putin, but even I would not do a “no fly zone” over all Ukraine. Over a safe haven around Lviv/Lvov in the West of the country, for sure I would. We need that NATO safe haven around Lviv today.

David Michael Barry
David Michael Barry (@guest_622758)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Total agreement with you.

grizzler
grizzler (@guest_622797)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Apart from it being a UN no fly zone if thats possible (or if it would need all the UN to agree)- then I agree with you.
Just unsure how dangerous a limited no fly zone is compared to a complete no fly zone if that makes sense.

David Barry
David Barry (@guest_622817)
2 years ago
Reply to  grizzler

Time to dig out the history books on the 1950 – 53 Korean War on how we got that through the UN.

1,000,000 refugees in a week and how many more are making the journey? Hospitals being shelled…

Hungarian Orban is close to Putin but, except Turkey, no other NATO State bordering Russian air space or maritime claims is and presure will build for action.

David Lloyd
David Lloyd (@guest_622724)
2 years ago

@George Allison

The Independent has put up footage of British Challenger 2 tanks (apparently without reactive armour fitted) on transporters heading for the Russian border with Estonia.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/convoy-british-military-estonia-russia-border-b2028544.html

Why is the MoD doing this, could you please get a comment from Ben Wallace

David Michael Barry
David Michael Barry (@guest_622756)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

Deployment announced last week, and?

David Lloyd
David Lloyd (@guest_622761)
2 years ago

This was only three hours ago. The Indie’s footage from the war has been outstanding so far. The two guys heard on the video clearly are British.

David Michael Barry
David Michael Barry (@guest_622773)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

BritMil are forward deployed – follow Daniele and you’d understand that we don’t have enough CS or CSS so being moved in penny packets to our lines.

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_623049)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Lloyd

These went in two convoys last week, forces news covered it. Its the replacement BG, but the previous BG are remaining for the foreseeable.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622776)
2 years ago

Afternoon Threaders I don’t know if this is Correct or not but Last night flicking through news channels there was a headline stating that a Ukrainian Sniper had taken out A Senior Russian officer rank of General if so there should be a job vacancy but I Can’t find anymore news on it Not the Vacancy but the General

RobW
RobW (@guest_622780)
2 years ago
Reply to  Tommo
Tommo
Tommo (@guest_622844)
2 years ago
Reply to  RobW

Thanks Rob ,I suppose the Job and Position have been filled with With the Job description of must love Putin ,willing too stick your head out when those around are Ducking Reasonable pay ,Nice uniform and free funeral

Alan Reid
Alan Reid (@guest_622778)
2 years ago

Very interesting to read Greg Bagwell’s comments, just posted on his Twitter feed, about how a No-Fly Zone could work in practice …..

My thoughts are based on my experience: as the RAF’s ex Commander of Operations (2013-16), years of flying in or commanding NFZs, years of sitting on 15’ readiness Nuclear QRA; and playing Russia in multiple strategic wargames.

The full facts are not out there and I offer some options as we watch idly as Ukrainians die”.

David Barry
David Barry (@guest_622823)
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Reid

Thanks for the heads up – could you post a link?

Last edited 2 years ago by David Barry
Alan Reid
Alan Reid (@guest_622832)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Barry
Alan Reid
Alan Reid (@guest_622834)
2 years ago
Reply to  David Barry

Recently, I’ve noticed that posted links often get “moderated” – and don’t reach the comments section.
But I’ve posted the link above – or you can search Twitter for Greg Bagwell.

David Barry
David Barry (@guest_622840)
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Reid

Thanks Alan.

JohninMK
JohninMK (@guest_622897)
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Reid

Thanks for the link. NATO black balled the EU’s plan to get NATO Mig-29s into Ukraine and have rulled out a NFZ. End of it, NATO will not provoke the Russians.

Airborne
Airborne (@guest_623048)
2 years ago
Reply to  JohninMK

Until we are ready as you Russians have proved that you cannot actually organise an attack to which you have had months to plan, your shite conscripts can’t fight and the vast majority of your kit is shit. NATO won’t provoke Putin for the simple fact he is a fucking tiny dicked dangler but with a nuclear option. When we want rid of the prick he will be gone. The so called Russian bear is more like a worn out scruffy disease ridden 3 legged shit clogged worn out alley cat. Sad sad sad troll.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_623286)
2 years ago
Reply to  Airborne

Airbourne, Apparently all the crap coming out from Putin and he’s stooges in the Kremlin is all the fault of Lizz Truss sanctions must be really hurting too state that it’s her fault , oh the price of Caviar has gone through the roof

Alan Reid
Alan Reid (@guest_622895)
2 years ago
John Hartley
John Hartley (@guest_623353)
2 years ago
Reply to  Alan Reid

Putin has cheated, humiliated, ruined, sacked many senior figures in Russia, over the last two decades, so he can stay in power. If Ukraine costs Russia a lot in money & blood, Putin’s enemies will seize their chance while he is weakened.

Alan Reid
Alan Reid (@guest_623369)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

I hope you’re right, John.

But people used to say the same thing about dictators like Hitler and Mussolini, and in our own era – Saddam Hussein, and Assad in Syria.

All of them lasted in office (or still remain in Assad’s case) longer than the West hoped.

Tommo
Tommo (@guest_623383)
2 years ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Hi John there was an interesting programme disecting Putins body language, facial expressions response time in answering questions hand gesturing ,Whilst he was being Interviewed by MBSN One of the Psychologists thought that maybe Putin is in the early stages of Parkingsons disease could be hereditary Adolf started suffering from that as well

Barry Curtis
Barry Curtis (@guest_624451)
2 years ago

The recent events only proves that the ongoing issues between Russia and NATO about enlargement in eastern Europe, has taken a sinister turn, especially when it effects the countries around them, it can be said that Putin is trying to resurrect the old iron curtain that will shroud Moldova, Georgia and now Ukraine given half the opportunity. Russia’s new buddies – Belarus who acted as a shady partner in crime during the invasion and China who is acting more like a sleeping partner to help Russia financially and to abstain at the UN Security Council voting session when necessary.  The… Read more »