The Royal Air Force say here that it has signed a formal agreement with the Italian Air Force which paves the way for servicing and maintenance of each other’s Eurofighter Typhoon and F-35B Lightning aircraft.
Signature of the implementation agreement follows on from the ‘Long History, Long Future: Tornado to Tempest’ Statement of Intent’ signed at RAF Marham last May.
It agrees the financial, legal and airworthiness principles for the mutual cross-maintenance and cross-servicing on common platforms, aircraft, and weapons systems.
“Once established RAF engineers will be able to perform servicing and limited cross-maintenance activities on Italian Air Force aircraft, and vice versa, during exercises and operational Air Policing worldwide. The move is part of wider NATO Agile Combat Employment initiatives to improve nations’ mutual operational advantage by operating better together.
The agreement was signed at Amendola Air Base on behalf of the RAF by Director Support RAF, Air Vice-Marshal Shaun Harris, and for the Italian Air Force by Generale Michele Oballa, ITAF Logistics Command. The ability to interoperate on the ground, providing engineering support to NATO partners, is enhancing the agility and speed of response of our Combat Air forces. This important agreement with Italian Air Force colleagues will strengthen Typhoon and F-35 interoperability, and lay the foundations for Global Combat Air Programme cross-servicing.”
What ever happened to the plan (Now discarded) of Turkey becoming the European hub for servicing F35 engines? Anybody know who picked up that most lucrative contract
Kongsberg Aviation Maintenance Services in Norway got it I think.
They bought the S400 from the Russians and gave the US a major sense of humour failure.
The Funny thing being I don’t think they ever brought the S400 into service.
That would be a twist of fate – especially if gifted on the QT to the Ukraine… tin foil hat moment.
i imagine turkey is regretting that now, it really made no sense. some folks must’ve taken a massive bribe from the russians for that 😂
There’s a lot of nepotism and corruption ingrained within the Erdogan administration. For example the new Turkish MBT (Altay) based on the Korean K2 with the Turkish military company Otokar doing all the work from start to first prototype. Then for some very strange reason the contract to build the tank was handed over to BMC in Nov 2018 which just happened to be owned by Turkish businessmen Ethem Sancak, who sits on the ruling Justice and Development Party’s (AKP) executive board, and the Öztürk family, distant relatives of President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan,. Well the tender was for the first… Read more »
Well UK and Italy have build and employed almost same combat aircraft since Tornado.
Eurofighter, Harrier, F-35 and in future Tempest. So that is about 1970’s to 2050’s or more.
Don’t forget out rotor aviation industries are entirely interwoven as well.
An update on Breaking Defense gives us a predicted timeline for the engine upgrades. I wonder what the time frame will be before we can see FOC on all of our F-35-Bs? Pratt to start receiving F-35 engine upgrade contracts in early 2024 “Pratt & Whitney, which makes the F135 engines that power all three version of the F-35, said in a separate statement Tuesday it expects to finish the preliminary design of its Engine Core Upgrade for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in December. The company added that it will be ready for the government’s official review of that… Read more »
It’s a worry. Supposedly part of the issue with delivery of block 4 has been the adding/changing of capabilities
And some on here wonder why I’m advocating for more Typhoons now to be added to the fleet with the F-35 production line due to finish in 2035 and the alarm bells ringing. Current Pratt & Whitney F135 engines cost anywhere between $45 million and $65 million as of 2 May 2023. What GAO Found “The F-35 program continues to experience schedule delays, cost growth, and late deliveries. Program delays in completing the F-35 simulator continue to prevent the Department of Defense (DOD) from completing the testing required to demonstrate that the F-35 is ready for full manufacturing rates, even… Read more »
I do agree another batch of typhoons would be sensible, even if it’s a 1 for 1 replacement of the tranche 1s…
This should show that getting a next generation aircraft to maturity takes a long time and there needs to be a bit of realism on the 6th generation replacement for typhoons timeline….
Hello Jonathan, Exactly, including MARTE ER short-term and a decent amount of Tomahawk to act as a very useful long-range deterrent. PLA exercises with YJ-62 anti-ship missile in Northern Theater Command25 January 2024 The 333rd Coastal Defence Brigade of the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Northern Theater Command (NTC) has deployed land-attack YJ-62 anti-ship cruise missiles (ASCMs) in a drill that took place in Haiyang, a coastal city southeast of the Shandong Peninsula in China. According to the drill’s video footage released by Chinese state-owned broadcaster China Central Television (CCTV), the brigade was seen exercising with four 8×8 WS2400 transporter-erector-launchers (TELs)… Read more »
What’s the appeal of MARTE ER for you? We have a programme for anti-ship missiles and MARTE is a particularly lightweight one, originally for helicopter launch.
A programme that will not be operational until 2030.
The typhoon is one of the most expensive fighters to operate in the world. To my knowledge it’s the most expensive 4th gen fighter, close to 30k an hour. Most of it is obscene parts and mx costs.
Buying something smaller, more affordable like the gripen or F-50 would be far more sensible. It could perform air policing, air defense etc, while the Typhoons focus on expeditionary operations.
Hello Chris, I tend to agree with you to a point, however, the time it would take to purchase them, train the pilots to fly them and set up the maintenance facilities to service them would take too long and increase the costs. And bear in mind, a Typhoon has two engines, not one. We need replacements as soon as possible replacing like for like and Typhoon is our best option in the near term. Air Command Secretariat Spitfire Block Headquarters Air Command Royal Air Force High Wycombe Buckinghamshire HP14 4UE 27 September 2023 “Thank you for your email of… Read more »
If you look at the attempted export opportunities, Typhoon is always by far the most expensive to buy and operate. Literally just need a light, affordable, single engine QRA/multi role air policing fighter. Even upgraded C/D Gripens would suffice and they can use UK weapons. They could replace all the Hawk T2’s in aggressor and Red Arrows roles as well. A buy of 48 would allow for two full squadrons (12/12) and an OCU (24). That would cover the North and South QRA sites in the UK, The Falklands flight, NATO air policing requirements and even allow for a multi… Read more »
Aeralis?
Seriously!
Well, apart from the whole waste of money thing, it’s a great idea
The whole concept is floored both aerodynamically and financially. You cannot produce an airframe where you can swop a basic benign straight wing introduction trainer with an advanced trainer with super manoeuvrability and a high power to weight ratio. The concept would require absolute control over the aircraft’s centre of gravity and centre of pressure, when swopping the wings, engines etc. This would have to be married to a flight control computer, that can operate in both flight regimes. Or you could replace the computer with one for each role. Otherwise the flight control laws will have to solidly walled… Read more »
DB, what sort of job do you do?
I thought at first you worked on radar and missiles, but now you demonstrate knowledge of APS systems and jet trainers.
I ask because I’m a young person who wants a career in defence or aerospace engineering and I want to know how you got a job with such wide ranging areas.
I have done various jobs within the military mostly in the aircraft field and been a guest of the RN a lot. Then latterly in specialist work and finished with DE&S. Did a lot of tours and OPs in some not so very nice places, but got to see and experienced what worked and what didn’t. I had also attained a degree or two in both mechanical aerospace and electrical engineering. So my experience base is quite wide. But since leaving after 30+ years, I now work for a defence company. The company does specialize in a particular field. But… Read more »
I have looked at BAE, Thales, Qinetiq and the like, they do seem to get the most interesting work!
I’m thinking Uni rather than apprenticeship, do the jobs still work the same way?
I think the concept is for different airframes to have different roles still, rather than to directly swap between them. As in, the intro trainer is built as such, has the right flight computer and balanced CoM and CoL. The ISTAR/Tanker is a different aircraft but the two share a majority of parts (the company claim 85%) for cheaper maintenance and modules of the same type can be swapped out from a pool if necessary. I have been reading a few of the Aeralis brochures and an interesting point has jumped out. One includes the claim “Carrier Strike Group provides… Read more »
Interesting. Do you know how it compares to the latest iteration of the F-16 or F-15EX? or superhornet for that matter? I doubt the RAF would ever add a new type of 4th gen but i’ve always wanted to see F-16s or F-15s in the RAF 😅 F-16s used to be a bargain to operate but with all the tech in the latest version I have no clue if its still ‘cheap’ ETA i just read the USAF is updating 600+ of their F-16s with the latest APG-83 AESA. amazing they still invest so much in their older airframes even… Read more »
Would it shock you to learn that the RAF nearly got F14s to replace the Phantoms, instead of the Tornado ADV. There was a lot of political lobbying to go for Tornado over the F14. Tornado was never an air defence fighter. But in the end it could hold its own. The Gripen E/F is equivalent to the very latest F16. In some respects such as electronic warfare it is better. Same with Typhoon, which is more in the same class as the F15. Both the Gripen and Typhoon will out manoeuvre the F15 and F16 in close combat. As… Read more »
The Typhoon is not in the same class as the F-15. The Typhoon is roughly equivalent to the legacy hornets (C/D) Look at the fuel fraction, it’s the exact same 11,000lbs. The F-15 is a heavyweight long range fighter. At high altitude the F-15 will eat anything in a dogfight that isn’t named Raptor.
Now consider the improvements to our new ECRS MK2 Radar, upgraded PIRATE, and the Praetorian Defensive Aids Sub-System (DASS). “The USAF stealth F-22 Raptor is a next-generation combat fighter that is more advanced than the Typhoon II and should therefore be able to win every engagement during a Red Flag top gun combat exercise. In dogfight situations, the F22 Raptor was found to be lacking. The Typhoon is a smaller and lighter aircraft and can out-climb, out-accelerate and out-manoeuvre the larger F22. It is a bit like a WW2 battle of Britain RAF spitfire attacking a larger twin engine Luftwaffe… Read more »
“That is when the F22 is vulnerable in dogfights with other advanced more agile jet fighters as was shown when Luftwaffe Typhoons scored numerous kills against Raptors during a Red Flag combat exercise in Alaska.” You’re making some absolutely massive assumptions here. The actually set up to these mock engagements remain classified and it’s just speculation for you to say that one fighter was more maneuverable than another. What is publicly known is that engagements are set up to test and train for certain scenarios for example, the f-22 might start in an energetically or numerically disadvantageous position or vice… Read more »
“but that doesn’t necessarily mean it will be the same if it was a real fight where there are no training restrictions being observed.”
So the answer is, we don’t know if the F-22 Raptor is as good as It is made out to be in that case until the gloves are off which is never going to happen.
No we never really know how real fights will turn out but based on the reported kill ratios for the f22 and your personal favorite the f35, we have some idea.
We certainly do! WASHINGTON — The U.S. Air Force repelled a Chinese invasion of Taiwan during a massive war game last fall by relying on drones acting as a sensing grid, an advanced sixth-generation fighter jet able to penetrate the most contested environments, cargo planes dropping pallets of guided munitions and other novel technologies yet unseen on the modern battlefield. But the service’s success was ultimately pyrrhic. After much loss of life and equipment, the U.S. military was able to prevent a total takeover of Taiwan by confining Chinese forces to a single area. Furthermore, the air force that fought… Read more »
No we don’t. You really need to look into what assumptions are made going into specific war games before making bold statements how it applies to a real conflict.
The Gripen is about 30% cheaper than the F-16. Most of that is engine maintenance costs. The F404 is damn near a miracle motor from an operational perspective.
F-16’s would require their own weapons, or a pool shared with the F-35. The Gripen could use all the Typhoon weapons plus the F-35’s AMRAAM’s. It’s a little Swiss army knife. If the UK could buy used C’s/D’s and put a new radar in it, it would be great for it’s role.
The red arrows would be amazing, back in a 9G supersonic after burning jet.
Huh, interesting. JPO and LM previously publicly signed up to TR-3 completion NLT end of 2nd qtr of ’24. Predict many very unhappy campers, both w/in USAF and more importantly Congress, if deadline blown w/out acts of abject contrition by all culpable parties. 🤔😳
It’s looking more like the 3rd quarter at the moment.