Russia has said it fired warning shots at a British warship after it reportedly entered the country’s waters in the Black Sea, but the Ministry of Defence has denied the claims.

The Russian defence ministry had claimed that HMS Defender entered Russian territorial waters near Crimea while a patrol ship fired warning shots and a jet dropped bombs in its path.

Russia said a border patrol boat fired shots at HMS Defender while a Russian aircraft dropped four bombs in its path in waters off Crimea. Russia had claimed that the vessel violated its borders.

However, British Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said in a statement that HMS Defender was carrying out a “routine transit” and entered an internationally recognised traffic corridor.

“As is routine, Russian vessels shadowed her passage and she was made aware of training exercises in her wider vicinity,” he said.

The Ministry of Defence also said that the Russians were carrying out a gunnery exercise in the Black Sea and provided prior warning.

“No warning shots have been fired at HMS Defender. The Royal Navy ship is conducting innocent passage through Ukrainian territorial waters in accordance with international law.

We believe the Russians were undertaking a gunnery exercise in the Black Sea and provided the maritime community with prior-warning of their activity.

No shots were directed at HMS Defender and we do not recognise the claim that bombs were dropped in her path.”

Local media claimed that according to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, today at 11:52 am HMS Defender crossed the Russian state border in the northwestern part of the Black Sea.

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ChariotRider
ChariotRider
6 days ago

This is all sounding very strange. Usually, countries deny firing shots not claim they did when they didn’t. Sounds like someone has got their wires crossed and added the pressence of HMS Defender to the gunnery exercises and made international incident!

It could be a deliberate miss representation to deflect attention from the UK Ukraine defence deal, of course.

Cheers CR

Mark B
Mark B
6 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Russia is trying to intimidate Ukraine and its allies and is currently frustrated by its lack of progress. Hopefully thins will calm down an sense will prevail.

Nick C
Nick C
6 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

It could be deliberate, or it could be an ambitious “spokesman” in Russia trying to get himself a headline, and getting his wires crossed. Since the ship has a BBC team on board any shots landing close to the ship, or bombs, would have been photographed, and will be on the news shortly. If not then it’s all made up, and the ambitious bloke could well be on his way to the Gulag!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 days ago
Reply to  Nick C

Oh, a BBC team is on board? That changes things. Unless they’re D noticed.

Nick C
Nick C
6 days ago

Yes, it’s all on the BBC news website, with the reporters byline. Looking forward to the pictures!

Mark B
Mark B
6 days ago

The most the BBC could say about it was it was tense. Simple navigation of international waters in a disputed area. There will be a few more of those on this trip. I would hope he crew were tense and I’m glad HMS Defender stuck to it’s guns and sailed on through.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
6 days ago

Danielle,
I saw the coverage on BBC iPlayer an hour ago – News Channel – ‘Outside Source’ programme.
Russian gunnery fire could be heard in the far distance.
A Russian coastguard vessel steamed parallel to our T45 very close in – looked like it was lining up to do a RAS!
A Russian DD/FF was stationary, broadside on, some distance away.
Not in the above article or mentioned by MoD (surprisingly) was the buzzing of HMS Defender by a low flying close-in fighter.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Thanks Graham.

Just call me Dan BTW, I’m not a girl!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Just seen what I think is the same footage on the 10 o clock news.

An SU24 did a low flyby, and what looked like a Candid or Coot type flew high overhead? Other fast jets in the distance.

As was mentioned by the diplomatic editor, Defender could have taken a more southerly course out of Odessa, which I suggested earlier to avoid this sort of thing ( all those posts got deleted, including mine ) but instead went SE.

This is the result. You hang out outside the bears new cave then there will be incidents.

Last edited 6 days ago by Daniele Mandelli
lee1
lee1
4 days ago

It is an international shipping lane. HMS Defender was asserting its legal right to sail there. Russian Ships also sail in our waters in international shipping lanes and we do not buzz them or claim we fired warning shots at them as they have a legal right to be there if transiting…

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
4 days ago
Reply to  lee1

Of course. We are legally entitled to do all that. We also have to expect this shit if we apply those international rules to Russia and Crimea. As CR said better arm up our escorts with ASM because if you poke you sometimes get stung.

lee1
lee1
4 days ago

In which case international rules go out the window then and we deny passage through the Channel and force the Russians all the way around Ireland! Russia was never going to do anything. They are not stupid. They just like stoking up the rhetoric in order to win points at home and keep the population of Russia thinking that they are fighting a war against the evil west and winning. They were told of the passage well before it happened as is the requirement in law. However the day before they faked maritime tracking charts to show that Defender and… Read more »

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
5 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Interesting that the Russians showed Defender they had no intention of a serious confrontation. The claimed ‘warning shots’ were way out and they deployed their CG to come close. The aircraft are anticipated and old hat from the RN perspective. For domestic consumption and panicky westerners only.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
5 days ago

Hi Daniele, Initially, there was a great video report on the BBC 6 o’clock news yesterday. Looked very much like the incident with HMS Dragon but there was a Russia coast guard ship close alongside HMS Defender threatening to open fire on this time round. It should be pointed out that there were Russia corvette’s within sight and those things, as we know, are armed to the teeth with anti-ship missiles. In the video you can hear shots being fire some miles of as the Russian’s carry out their pre-notified live firing exercise. I assessed the this incident was a… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
5 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

The only thing with VIPER is its close in minimum range. At close range the 30mm cannons are going to be more use against aircraft with the Phalanx taking bombs out. That is unless there are ASTER15’s hiding in the VLS which are more use for close in work. It is unlikely that an AShM would be far enough out to arm, at those distances – you don’t launch armed missiles for obvious reasons just in case the launch goes wrong, so it would be down to naval gunnery IRL. I am a tiny bit surprised that when stepping on… Read more »

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
5 days ago

Hi Supportive Boke, I entirely agree with your comments and indeed the minimum firing range for the SSM’s occured to me whilst I was writing my comment. However, it was possibly / likely more Russia Navy vessels were over the horizon, something we will probably never know, so I kinda assumed SSM’s were a ‘theoretical’ possibility… Oddly, the two T23’s sailing with the CSG have been fitted with Harpoon launchers as there are pictures of them with the CSG so equipped. I am guessing that as the Harpoons are on there way out the RN may not have sufficent serviceable… Read more »

CAM
CAM
6 days ago
Reply to  Nick C

Russia has been carrying out exercises in the Black Sea near HMS Defender, so I think it was just that this exercise was aimed at intimidating HMS Defender although the rockets were not in a way directly fired at the ship. It is all a bit odd though.

Nic
Nic
6 days ago
Reply to  CAM

The alleged incident has just been shown on BBC News , HMS Defender is show going into action stations and then it shows the ship bei g buzzed by a number of Russian aircraft and shadowed by a Russian Coastguard vessel a Russia warship can be seen in the distance and the sound of gunfire can be heard . But no reports of damaged or hits.

Nick C
Nick C
5 days ago
Reply to  Nic

i watched the BBC report, and I was struck that the call to action stations didn’t seem to be from the same thread as the overflight, it could have been stitched in from another piece entirely. And you could barely hear the gunfire, so it was definitely a long way away. Just a bit of coat trailing by us in international waters and the Russians getting hysterical, in the way that totalitarian states always do. I’m looking forward to the torrents of rhetoric from the Chinese in a few months time which I suspect might make this incident sound like… Read more »

lee1
lee1
4 days ago
Reply to  Nick C

Their propaganda is simply for domestic consumption where they get very little opportunity to see other coverage other than the state funded variety. It is designed to make Putin look like a strong leader willing to take on the west and also to portray the west as a common enemy that can unite Russians who would otherwise possibly like Putin to clear off…

Andy P
Andy P
6 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Maybe the ‘shots fired’ and bombs dropped is more for the domestic market. They might be saying it to the world but the rest of the world shrugs while Putin fans at home are getting hard ons. Who knows, maybe the did and we’re trying to make them look stupid by denying it. For what its worth, I’m leaner to the former.

Last edited 6 days ago by Andy P
Airborne
Airborne
6 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Spot on mate.

Dave12
Dave12
5 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Yep that’s what I said ,this is for the Russian audience not us.

Steve
Steve
6 days ago

It’s hard to know who to believe, I read that the ship moved out of the area pretty quickly after the shots were meant to be shot. I suspect that nether side is telling the entire truth

Last edited 6 days ago by Steve
Mark B
Mark B
6 days ago
Reply to  Steve

Can’t see why the British would want to either underplay or overplay the incident.

I can see why the Russians woul want to intimidate anyone being friendly or supportive to the ukrainians preferably wihout actually creating an actual incident.

Steve
Steve
6 days ago
Reply to  Mark B

Depends if the destroyer really was in Ukraine waters or moved into waters that Russia consider theirs. If the later, I can see why the UK would want to downplay it.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
6 days ago
Reply to  Steve

The waters the Russians consider theirs are Ukrainian waters. The waters in question are internationally recognised as Ukrainian and that the Russians have annexed them.

Steve
Steve
6 days ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

That’s the point though, if we were detribrately trying to push the point and operate in what we (most of the international community also) consider Ukrainian waters, then we might want to down play it, if we then push it too far and Russia reacted to it. I’m clearly not saying that it was actually russian waters, just what they perceive to be theirs. Same thing is going to happen in the south China sea sooner or later between China and the US. It will be in everyone’s interest to downplay it publically, as no one wants a war. Why… Read more »

Last edited 6 days ago by Steve
Mark B
Mark B
6 days ago
Reply to  Steve

The Russians don’t want us in the Black sea full stop. We made whatever points we wanted to just by entering and signing a deal with Ukraine. From what I can see no incursion was made and no shots were fired – just a lot of hot air

Do you seriously believe a word the Russians say?

Steve
Steve
6 days ago
Reply to  Mark B

I don’t believe a word any policitcian says. Anything military related that is made official is purely done for local polictical gains.

I was just saying it was odd.

lee1
lee1
4 days ago
Reply to  Steve

Two points. Firstly they are internationally and legally recognised as Ukrainian waters. Secondly it is an internationally recognised shipping lane (Like the English Channel) so given the UK notified Russia in the correct way that it was going to be travelling there then it had every right to do so unimpeded just like we allow Russian ships to transit through the Channel…

Steve
Steve
4 days ago
Reply to  lee1

No arguement but just looking at it from Russias perspective (not saying it’s the right one). For example a large number of the international community recognise the Falklands at argentian, what would we feel if Argentina passed a war ship into Falklands waters. Equally what is the reaction each time Spain does the same in Gib waters.

Last edited 4 days ago by Steve
lee1
lee1
4 days ago
Reply to  Steve

If it was a shipping lane then we would not batter an eyelid apart from escorting it as most nations do.

Bloke down the pub
Bloke down the pub
6 days ago
Reply to  Gunbuster

It doesn’t matter whose waters they are, other ships have the right to ‘innocent passage’ in exactly the same way that Russian vessels are allowed to travel within ten miles of the UK when going through the English Channel.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 days ago
Reply to  Steve

Where did you read that, Steve? MoD state she transmitted a recognised separation zone and exited safely. Must be osint tracking in addition to the BBC team, so the news disadvantage currently lies with the RN, if their lying.

CAM
CAM
6 days ago
Reply to  Steve

Something happened anyway, we know that. Apparently a Russian exercise in the area when HMS Defender sailed by Crimea so they might have used the exercise to intimidate HMS Defender. I don’t know it’s just an idea although it’s all a bit odd.

MikeB1947
MikeB1947
5 days ago
Reply to  CAM

Alternatively of course, the MoD knew that a Russian exercise was due to take place in the area and ordered “Defender” to sail through the Ukranian shipping lane to test the Russian response.

Sean
Sean
5 days ago
Reply to  MikeB1947

Nope, just the fastest route from Odessa (where she’d been visiting) to Georgia (where she’s going next) using an internationally recognised sea-lane.
The U.K. has a similar one in its territorial waters called the English Channel. But we don’t make a song and dance when other navies use it.

MikeB1947
MikeB1947
5 days ago
Reply to  Sean

Indeed it is the fastest route between Ukraine and Georgia! However, I wonder how many merchant ships were sailing between Odesa and Georgia at the same time? If so, did they use the same route as “Defender” or did they heed warnings about Russian exercises and make deviations? If the latter, “Defender” was obviously ordered to ignore the warnings and sail through as planned and, in doing so, test the Russian’s response and gather relevant intelligence Agree your point about about the Channel but, of course, because it is one the the busiest shipping routes in the world, we do… Read more »

lee1
lee1
4 days ago
Reply to  MikeB1947

There were plenty of Merchant ships using the same route at the time. They are clearly seen on the ship tracking sites.

Tim
Tim
5 days ago
Reply to  Steve

I will say this if Russia had fired on a RN ship wouldn’t there be gun camera footage that the Russians would be showing to the world so I’m sceptical of the Russian claims I think putin is just sounding off for his domestic fans nothing more

lee1
lee1
4 days ago
Reply to  Steve

You can see the course of the ship on publicly available trackers… It clearly did not move out of the area any quicker than it would have otherwise. It simply followed the shipping lane which happens to take it close to the coast of Crimea for a short time.

James
James
6 days ago

I find the MOD statement odd almost as if they’re panicking and not sure what to say. I’m almost tempted to believe the Russian version of events

Jonathan
Jonathan
6 days ago
Reply to  James

What bombs ? I thought that was a pod of really big whales surfacing…..

Mark B
Mark B
6 days ago
Reply to  James

Almost? Did you almost believe the Russian version of events on the Sailsbury attack?

Jack
Jack
6 days ago
Reply to  James

Like when the Royal Navy sailed into Iranian waters and were embarrassed in front of the World.

Tomartyr
Tomartyr
5 days ago
Reply to  Jack

Are you referring to the time IRGC chased a UAE corvette thinking it was HMS Duncan?
How embarrassing..

Tim
Tim
5 days ago
Reply to  James

If it was true the Russians would be showing gun camera footage of it the fact there not tells me enough remember when they showed video game footage and claimed it was from syria

farouk
farouk
6 days ago

Some additional info regards the above;
a RC-135V Rivet Joint Signal Intelligence aircraft of USAF‘s 38th RS with 63-9792 serial & SAIL21 call-sign is now monitoring the Russian military activity in Crimea.


E4kJ0aqX0AEi3Rs.jpg
Jonathan
Jonathan
6 days ago

I have to say this may actually be a first. Normally you have the “ you fired at us” With a “ no we did not” responce. Russia and the U.K. have managed to get into a “we fired at you” “ no you did not” argument. That’s really really just messed up when you think about it.

Sean
Sean
5 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Maybe the Russian gunnery is so wildly inaccurate that while they thought they were firing warning shots it probably looked more like a shore bombardment of Sevastopol…

Rob
Rob
6 days ago

Not that strange really. So UK MOD say that HMS Defender was transiting international waters and the Russians were carrying out a GUNEX nearby. The thing here is that it implies (correctly) that the waters aren’t Russian and that the Russian occupation of the Crimea is illegal. The Russians say that Defender was in their waters and that the GUNEX were indeed warning shots. Thus implying that the waters belong to Russia. One thing is for sure, shots were fired but what for and where is a matter in interpretation. I guess we can expect similar when CG21 transits disputed… Read more »

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 days ago

Doesn’t look like Defender noticed ‘Putin’s petulance’, then. Trust she got some decent ELINT.

Gunbuster
Gunbuster
6 days ago

Just did some checking and there are NOTAMS in force for the area.
It is telling that the NOTAMS also have notes against them saying that the NOTAMS are issued by Russian Forces for areas that are internationally recognised as Ukrainian.
Basically recognising the NOTAM legitimises the Russian forces so whilst being aware of the NOTAM they are not formally recognised.
What could possibly go wrong!!

Rob
Rob
6 days ago

BBC embedded journalist on board HMS Defender now reporting that:
HMS Defender has been in disputed Crimean waters.
Shots were fired nearby.
Has been buzzed by up to 20 jets.

Russian jets and ships target British warship – BBC News

DaveyB
DaveyB
6 days ago
Reply to  Rob

BBC video footage shows explosions in the water behind the ship, by a good distance, nit in front of it!

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 days ago
Reply to  DaveyB

‘Nit in front’ you say, DB?
‘Allo, ‘Allo!

(Sorry, couldn’t resist!)

Steve M
Steve M
5 days ago
Reply to  Rob

Just to clarify, the report said Defender detected up to 20 Russian military aircraft in the area, not that she was buzzed by 20. I feel that’s an important distinction to make.

Paul.P
Paul.P
6 days ago

Russian forces organise exercises in claimed waters off Crimean coast just as Defender departs from the well publicised signing of a deal which signals NATO support for a significant increase in Ukrainian naval strength. I don’t think so. Daring’s course must have been authorised by the UK and Nato allies complete with BBC reporter. Message to Putin…
Job 38:11
hitherto shalt thou come, and no further, here your proud waves must stop.

Mark
Mark
6 days ago

And this illustrates perfectly the utter stupidity of fitted for but not with!

Any ship sailing on deployment should have a full load of of all the weaponry it could need in case something kicks off whilst at sea.

The excuse of they’ll be fitted as tensions rise is utter BS and could lead to the loss of ships and lives at some point.

Gareth
Gareth
6 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Absolutely right. One day we’ll have a government which understands that preparation for potential crises is the cheap option, rather than putting said prep off to save a few quid today (and fob everyone off with platitudes whilst doing so).

Andrew D
Andrew D
6 days ago

Big red bear strikes again 🐻we brits won’t be pushed about 🇬🇧 we will sail within law 🇬🇧 ⚓

David Steeper
David Steeper
6 days ago

Russians set this up yesterday. Go to news.usni.org.

Dave12
Dave12
6 days ago

This is the Kremlin spinning the yarn that Russia is under siege by NATO ,it’s message soley for the Russian people not us as it’s easy to pick it apart.

Andrew D
Andrew D
6 days ago
Reply to  Dave12

It’s sad really the Russian people have a president who decides what’s best for him and not is people and makes sure he stays in power.Plus putting is Armed forces in a dangerous position with the West when there is no need.

Rob
Rob
6 days ago

Just to be clear about the Russian propaganda pictures being shown by Sky. They absolutely do NOT show HMS Defender being chased out of anywhere. HMS Defender is just being escorted by Russian patrol boats and fast jets through international waters.

Andrew D
Andrew D
6 days ago
Reply to  Rob

I wonder Rob if CSG have fun with our friends from China ?

Rob
Rob
6 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

More than likely. I’d suggest that the MOD need to be a lot more open and realistic with their press releases than this time. Don’t give a blank statement denying things, instead say we sailed through international waters that have been illegally occupied by…

Something Different
Something Different
6 days ago

I haven’t spotted any harpoons on Defender. Although unlikely to be used in this ‘posturing situation’ I think this incident illustrates that their omission is somewhat of an oversight.

Steve
Steve
5 days ago

Agreed, if your going to deliberately wind up another nation by sending a warship into their backyard, it would seem sensible precaution to arm it to the teeth. Almost zero risk of Russia doing anything but almost is not zero.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 days ago

The headline story on BBC news at 10.

Very interesting.

Rob
Rob
6 days ago

We looked at them and they looked at us, nobody blinked. The UK has taken it’s turn in the Black Sea. It’s time for the French & Italians to step up. Probably be back next year though. By then I really hope that NATO has stepped up it’s media ops. Today, for people not in the know, has been significantly shaped by the Russian Psy Ops.

Klonkie
Klonkie
6 days ago

Hi Danielle just reported on NZ radio as a Royal Navy “battleship- Geez give me strength!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
6 days ago
Reply to  Klonkie

 🙄 

Nick C
Nick C
5 days ago

I hadn’t realised that HMS Vanguard, the battleship not the bomber, had been hidden away in a Scottish Loch and converted into a stealth destroyer! Soon to come, the return of Jackie Fisher and “we won’t eight and we won’t wait”

Lusty
Lusty
5 days ago

Not as bad as the BBC rweporter in Kiev, who originally referred to her as “the HMS Destroyer” in his initial report.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 days ago
Reply to  Lusty

For foreigners it may be understandable. For a BBC reporter, who I assume is British, that is unforgivable.

Nick C
Nick C
5 days ago

No it’s absolutely par for the course in almost all the main stream media these days, like saying “the HMS” which is now standard practice. And I bet most of them have degrees in English, which shows the worth of a modern education.
on another tack, it is interesting to note, as was said earlier, that the US had a Rivet Joint up at the same time. Not a coincidence, they must have been hoovering up a lot of Elint.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 days ago
Reply to  Nick C

Of course not, this was deliberate provocation by the RN, whether in Ukrainian waters and doing FON or not. They knew what the likely response would be. The Bear bit, but luckily did not close its jaws. Hope the take was worth it.

Nick C
Nick C
5 days ago

I suspect that the reason we are hearing so much about it is because the press are on board and are filing copy pretty quickly. When HMS Duncan had a similar situation a year or two ago it was reported by the documentary makers on board at the time so with an obvious delay.
if you have not read it I recommend “The Silent Deep” by Peter Hennessy and James Jinks. Published in 2015 so now a bit out of date it has a lot of good stuff about the underwater equivalent during the Cold War.

Lusty
Lusty
5 days ago

My typos! Yes, he did appear to be a British reporter based in Kiev. What’s funny is the fact that the BBC reporter in London (Reeta Chakrabarti) referred to the ship by her correct name and didn’t use the word ‘the’. Then, it clipped over to matey with his webcam, who went on to use the incorrect language and name THREE times. Nick is correct. However, it does go a little further. A journalist should be able to research and get basic facts right. I’d forgive them not knowing the exact weapons fit at the time (number of machine guns,… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 days ago
Reply to  Lusty

Pity I didn’t become a journalist. Are there any out there in the mainstream media with a decent amount of knowledge?!

Lusty
Lusty
4 days ago

Few and far between, mate. Go for it!

On the subject, ‘This Morning’ just pronounced HMS Tamar’s name wrong!

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
3 days ago

D man Andrew Neil is probably the best of them no surprise he’s a Scot 😉

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago

Mate, yes I like Andrew Neil. I don’t know if he knows anything concerning defence mind.

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
3 days ago

Aye true story that but he’s the kinda old Skool pugilist that would go do proper homework and find out what he’s talking about including defence👍🏻

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇬🇧

Springer
Springer
5 days ago
Reply to  Lusty

Haha it’s ok she’s in company with HNLMS Frigate having departed from HMS Aircraft Carrier, hopefully RFS Frigate won’t get too close!

Lusty
Lusty
4 days ago
Reply to  Springer

Hah!

Gareth
Gareth
5 days ago
Reply to  Klonkie

I saw a report in the Express I think it was yesterday that explained how type 45 destroyers are armed with 45 Tomahawk cruise missiles. I admired their optimism but not their inability to Google.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
6 days ago

Seems we here are in danger of losing the plot more than the Royal Navy (and NATO) is, at this rate. The CSG elements surely need to lay down a marker for the whole deployment i.e. Russia & China. Not to mention the foreseeable future, from now on in.
Regards

Peter S
Peter S
5 days ago

At the risk of being seen(wrongly) as a friend of Moscow, I don’t think that Crimea is the most worthy cause to get mixed up in. What is now Russian Crimea was only part of Ukraine from 1954 when it was gifted to them ( for reasons even Russian historians don’t agree on) under Khrushchev. It has never had a majority Ukrainian population, with Russians becoming an ever greater majority percentage after the expulsion of the Crimean Tartars in 1944. Russia’s strategic position,even in the Black Sea, is now so much less favourable than 30 years ago that her habitual… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 days ago
Reply to  Peter S

Its a characteristic of multi ethnic empires that collapse into multiple nation states ( such as the USSR) that they leave behind these points of tensions. Multi ethnic empires tend to encourage ( or even force as a method of control) the movement of ethnic groups into around the empire. When it collapses into nation states these transplanted groups tend to end up as either/and/or their reason for one nation state to invade a second ( to save our fellow, whoever’s from the nasty whatever’s) or end up being the victims of oppression or ethnic violence. Good examples include: 1)… Read more »

Peter S
Peter S
5 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Absolutely. I think that memories of Hitler’s escalating series of actions to return ethnic Germans to the Reich influenced Western reactions to Crimea. Was this the start of a similar progression of increasingly aggressive demarches? Were the Baltic States next? The actions in Eastern Ukraine gave reason to be concerned.
But I just think we should bear in mind that Crimea is an unusual case.

Rob
Rob
5 days ago
Reply to  Peter S

Maybe but look at it from the Russkies point of view. You know we fought a major war (we being the ottoman Empire, UK & France) to evict the Russians from Sevastopol in order to keep the Russian fleet away from the Turkish Straits and ensure western domination of the Black Sea. The Crimean War is maybe quite high up in their threat assessment. Not defending their actions but it does take two to tango.

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 days ago
Reply to  Rob

Yes you can never forget Russian national trauma and how that plays out in their geopolitical decision making. Western Europe has been the birthplace of many sorrows for the Russian people over the last couple of centuries, this is very much reflected in their near abroad policy, which is complicated by the collapse of a multi ethnic empire. The reality is we ( as in Europe, is allies and Asian nations ) have been luck that the level of violence and death has been limited to an almost ambient level ( when you consider the first half of the 20C).… Read more »

Peter S
Peter S
5 days ago
Reply to  Rob

I hadn’t really thought about the Crimean war. But I think we take the same view that the RN route was rather unwise. Above all, it doesn’t achieve anything except to give a propaganda opportunity to the Kremlin.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 days ago
Reply to  Peter S

Agree.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
5 days ago
Reply to  Peter S

Well, I will add, from a purely personal perspective: I don’t wish to pay for military equipment if the UK shows any inclination against using it when words, or even actions get a tad heated, provided we have legal precedent. UNCLOS does not seem that complicated in most instances – a good law. Transitting from one port to another by a recognised direct routing is basic. Besides, if HMS Duncan was any guide, it does not matter where you are as far as the Mighty P’in is concerned. One imagines Defender is due for Istanbul and out to the Med… Read more »

Glass Half Full
Glass Half Full
5 days ago
Reply to  Peter S

Sorry, going to disagree. All that history is irrelevant. All that matters is that Russia agreed to Ukraine’s status and borders when the Soviet Union dissolved. Russia reneged on that when they annexed the Crimea and supported insurgency in Donetsk. That’s it. No excuses about Russian paranoia from being invaded in the past. Frankly given how many Russians have died directly from actions by their leadership, they’d be better served being more paranoid about their own government. Freedom of navigation is also not a pointless gesture. If nothing else this exercise has reminded the world that the Russian govt. (as… Read more »

Meirion X
Meirion X
4 days ago
Reply to  Peter S

The former Soviet Union agreed to Crimea remaining in Ukraine, when it became independent again. And Russia signed an agreement in 1994 respecting Ukraine’s integrity. And Ukraine agreed to lease Sevastopol Naval Base to Russia up to 2018.

Last edited 4 days ago by Meirion X
Johan
Johan
5 days ago

Missing the main point, to divert attention from Russia losing in the FOOTBALL and coming home, with the other little countries. HOW CAN WE SAVE FACE COMRAD. lets make some fake news….. There posting on TWATTER really.

Mark
Mark
5 days ago

Can anyone tell me why there is a news blackout on the fact HMS defender was not alone? Why is there no reporting of the Royal Netherlands Navy frigate Evertsen in any news report or the fact the US have a destroyer also in the black sea? Evertsen and Defender left Ukrainian port together didn’t they?

James
James
5 days ago
Reply to  Mark

I believe they left port together and no idea why no mention of them at all. All adds to something that doesnt seem to make any sense!

Pete
Pete
5 days ago
Reply to  Mark

Evertsen is on her way to Istanbul while Defender is heading to Georgia.

James
James
5 days ago

In the footage of the Russian jets flying past close by on the BBC it doesnt look like they are armed or I am mistaking fuel drop tanks for bombs!?

Cymbeline
Cymbeline
5 days ago

https://www.b92.net/eng/news/world.php?yyyy=2021&mm=06&dd=24&nav_id=111086

Not really sure what this shows, but link to Russian claimed version of incident.

Nic
Nic
5 days ago

Russias deputy foreign minister has stated that if any NATO vessel sails witin the limits ther will open fire .

Andrew D
Andrew D
5 days ago
Reply to  Nic

There really are a tool 🔧

Andrew D
Andrew D
5 days ago

Can anyone of you Guys tell me what’s happening with HMS Daring,did read she was Replacing HMS Bristol as a Training Ship ?

Meirion X
Meirion X
5 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Daring has finished a refit lately, and has been refloated in water.
And I saw a photo of her, I think last week or the week before, on Navylookout Twitter feed of crew firefighters training on board, Andrew. Search for Daring on Twitter.

Last edited 5 days ago by Meirion X
Andrew D
Andrew D
4 days ago
Reply to  Meirion X

Will done thanks Meirion

Paul42
Paul42
3 days ago
Reply to  Meirion X

She’s the second vessel undergoing PIP. As soon as the work on Dauntless is completed Daring will be heading to Cammel lairds

Dave12
Dave12
5 days ago

I see my comment has been removed this starting to get silly now it seems the flagging system is being hijacked by trolls ,can I have some answers please,as there was nothing wrong with it as there are comments on the same lines to my comment that wa s removed

Andrew D
Andrew D
5 days ago
Reply to  Dave12

Hi Dave notice one of my comments had been removed two from last night I seen that there was some dispute going on ,but kept out of it and my comments was just about Putin putting is Armed forces and the West playing silly game’s ?

Dave12
Dave12
5 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Yes Andrew it was the comment that you replied to me ,it all vanished and it was nothing abusive just valid point on the Russian propaganda machine.

Andrew D
Andrew D
5 days ago
Reply to  Dave12

All abit odd .Be nice if there tell us where we when wrong 🤔

Lisa West (Comment Moderator)
Lisa West (Comment Moderator)
5 days ago
Reply to  Dave12

Hi Dave12, your comment was flagged and was therefore pending review, I’ve approved it now.

Last edited 5 days ago by Lisa West (Comment Moderator)
Dave12
Dave12
5 days ago

Cheers lisa, all sorted

Andrew D
Andrew D
5 days ago
Reply to  Dave12

Thanks Lisa ,do enjoy ukdj was starting to think wanted old Engineer off 🤗

Andrew D
Andrew D
5 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Sorry Dave for Lisa ,eyes 👀going now early shifs this week.😕

dave12
dave12
5 days ago
Reply to  Andrew D

Lol no worries, I no what you mean.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
4 days ago

OT, but related as it is Russia/Bylorussia., and covered in UKDJ. That journalist has been moved to “house arrest”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57607580

david
david
4 days ago

I wonder if we had a sub in proximity!

John Hampson
John Hampson
4 days ago

I used to argue that the SS2O, Pershing /Cruise missile face off was not a crisis, as both sides knew and abided by the rules of the game. But after working for a while in Russia I realised I had totally ignored one crucial factor. The Russians have a completely different view on things to a Westerner. After centuries of brutal foreign and domestic oppression and hardship, the Russian people have learned do as they are told and to accept whatever they are told. The Russian version that their forces chased off a threat to the Russia fundamentally feeds into the… Read more »