The UK Government has pledged ‘hundreds of thousands more’ artillery shells in the coming year.
This assurance is part of the UK’s broader engagement in international efforts to bolster Ukraine’s defences against Russian aggression.
The question was raised on 12th April 2024 by Alex Sobel, Labour (Co-op) MP for Leeds North West, who inquired whether the UK government intended to contribute financially to a Czech Republic scheme designed for the purchasing of artillery shells for Ukraine. The response was provided by Leo Docherty, Minister of State at the Ministry of Defence and Minister for the Armed Forces, on 22nd April 2024.
The answer came to light via the following response to a Parliamentary Written Question.
Alex Sobel MP (Labour (Co-op) – Leeds North West) asked:
“To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, whether the Government plans to make a financial contribution to the Czech Republic scheme for the purchasing of artillery shells for Ukraine.”
Leo Docherty (Minister of State (Ministry of Defence) (Minister for the Armed Forces)) responded:
“The UK remains fully engaged with the international capability coalitions and numerous other partners to understand where further opportunities may exist to increase our support to Ukraine. To date the UK has provided over 300,000 artillery shells to Ukraine, and has committed to delivering 100s of thousands more this financial year, and a further investment of £245 million on artillery ammunition in 2024-25.”
Good news but when is the Sunak government going to promise the British Army ‘hundreds of thousands more’ artillery shells – for war stock?
Surely you are joking? A proper stockpile for the UK military? And Sunak in the same sentence? This salami slicer approach to providing Ukraine with what it needs is wearing very thin. I still cannot understand why the BAE Washington plant wasn’t churning out shells as fast as it could go from the off on this. It has taken two years for that plant to be working flat out and to be upgraded for more capacity. That said the Ukrainians don’t need parity in numbers of shells as the NATO systems supplied are infinitely more accurate. What they do need… Read more »
That is very true, in modern warfare, especially for the west ( who need to show they are actually trying to reduce civilian casualties and not just flatten a country to get to the enemy) you need a level of accuracy….or if you are trying to take a county with some value intact ( I honestly think to an extent the destruction russia has caused would be worse if it was not for the fact they want to take hold and exploit Ukraine….I suspect the closer russia looks like it comes to losing the more destruction you will see thrown… Read more »
The Government of the day’s only influence, most of the time, is the money going into the pot. The NHS at the end of the day is run by clinicians and civil servants who do not always manage their responsibilites in the best way. To be fair to all politicians (can’t believe i’m say this) have budgets of tens if not hundreds of billions to oversee but not run. Ben Wallace was quite clear that the current procurement rules made it time consuming to order stuff for the UK yet they could order stuff for Ukraine in a flash. These… Read more »
Hi mark…re the PPE pandemic stock PPE had nothing to do with the NHS..it was directly run and managed by the cabinet office ( disaster response is part of the cabinet office’s portfolio not the NHS)…what they could have done is transferred that PPE to the NHS so the NHS could have used it before it went out of date…they did not they just kept 10s millions of pounds of PPE on the shelves rotting..so they did not have to fund a rotation, dispersal and restock. I assure you that the Clinicians and managers have far less control of the… Read more »
Lots of stuff has been over the years centralised to the Cabinet Office. Clearly the PPE issue was a blunder because the UK was unable to manufacture it here. However if you seriously think that there was a cabinet minister checking stocks of PPE and planning their efficient use bearing in mind their use by dates then you have missed the point of ministers. Civil Servants run the country. This requires them to flag up issues to ministers and ask for resouces or funding to resolve issues. Where do you think the failure lies. I know (I’ve been there as… Read more »
Mark I said the cabinet office…it’s all very well to blame civil servants but their boses are ministers and there are a lot of ministers 95 + 45 parliamentary private Secretary’s ( MPs who work in the departments)..ministers make the big calls and rotating and agreeing a budget to rotate the PPE stock would have been a very large budget line within the cabinet office and that would have been signed of and agreed..so yes the buck stops with the minister…it’s not the NHS that decides health policy it’s the ministers of health…my organisation did not go through a multitude… Read more »
Oh and WW3 will be everyone’s problem so I doubt anyone is trying to mess that up deliberately.
What they are doing Mark is ignoring the evidence and level of risk..because that would mean very significantly increasing defence spending..which they ( as in the entire western world) does not want to do…our potential enemies are hugely upping their defence expenditure to an unsustainable way..which in itself is a big red flag…an unsustainable increase in defence spending can only go one of two ways..( war or collapse).
Using your own logic Jonathan, is a massive increase in funding for the armed forces not unsustainable for the UK? Which budget can be cut? Perhaps 30 billion removed from the NHS or Schools. Because we are part of NATO we only need to provide a fraction of what is needed to defeat Russia and/or China.
There are some flaws in your thinking 1) we don’t need to go to an unsustainable level of spending…but we need to increase..to something like 3%..all estimates are saying that china is now very close to matching the US defence spend ( north of 700billion per year) but because of spending parity each dollar china spends is buys far far more ( a Chinese solider or Sailor is paid around a sixteenth of a U.S. services personal, china can build ships and munitions faster and cheaper that the US..with ships it’s got 260 times the shipbuilding capacity of the US)…Russia… Read more »
Which budget can be cut? HS2. Right off the bat the £66bn London to Birmingham section can go the way of the other routes. I’m sure that would save £30bn. How about getting private enterprise to build some Vertiports. Within 10 years, 5 if there’s significant investment, we could have coaches in the sky travelling at >180 mph. The vertiports themselves would cost maybe £1bn each in Central London. Less in Birmingham. More if they also took hybrid airships, but nothing approaching the cost of HS2. Instead we spend our billions pacifying every nimby on the route. Right now it’s… Read more »
Hi SB, Agree with everything you say, mate. One little point I would make is that the cheapo rounds are likely be be pretty damn accurate in the context of a slow moving trench warfare scenario. During the latter stages of the Battle of the Somme the British developed the creeping barrage technique. British infantry had to advance very and I mean very close to the back edge of the barrage so the guns had to reliably plonk their shells within a few yards of their aim point or you risked taking out a platoon of your own troops. So… Read more »
I would say supporters of Ukraine are already balls deep in the nuclear threat. I can’t see anything changing on that front. If Russia decides to unleash the nukes it won’t be because the U.K. supplied an extra 100,000 shells. It will be because they have chosen to. Ukraine has shown it’s not going to take the invasion and just give in. It gives an idea of how much they fear being under Russia control that they would fight so hard. The Ukrainians and anyone else who lived in the Soviet Union must have terrible fear of being put back… Read more »
Hi SM, I should have made it clearer that I was thinking about what Russia might do to Ukraine. I was also thinking about sudden changes in the type of support. Gradually changing circumstances allows people to get used to the new situation – the boiled frog model. On the other hand sudden changes can cause shock and engender an angry reaction quick fire response. I was really trying to highlight the tightrope being walked by Western governments. I do think that they could have responded more robustly, but I also understand their “abundance of caution”, to coin a popular… Read more »
Good points from you, CR and MS. But whilst I’m with you on Putin not lobbing ‘nukes at a NATO country for fear of retaliation, what if he lobbed (low yield) battlefield nukes at Ukraine. What would you (and others on this blog) think the likely response to this would be, from NATO countries (esp Poland)?
Discuss…
That should be a clear red line. We should make it clear if any nukes were used by Russia in UKR that at the very least would result in NATO forces directly intervening(air support etc). Otherwise we’re allowing the tacticle use of nukes & the delusion that it could be OK for any tyrant to use them when things aren’t going their way.
Years of prevaricating over support for UKR in the face of invasion, rather than facing Putin down has alowed so much unnecessary death & destruction.
NATO Would do nothing. To put NATO into the Ukrainian war would be a great invitation to Putin to throw everything in one last grasp at victory of the war. The West MUST not be involved in military intervention in the war.
Sorry all,but my keyboard caps lock is F****d again.
I respectfully disagree Andy. I think if Putin thought NATO, or willing UKR allies acting independantly, were willing to engage Russian forces within UKR, he’d think more than twice about continuing his ciminal invasion.
Nothing because to do so would significantly up th ante in the wider deployment of NATO nukes for the same task the use of such weaponry on a regular basis would be a short step from unleashing the big stuff.
Indeed so. Deterents don’t work if you just cower & appease enemies threatening you & invading your friends & allies.
If Russia wins in UKR/ China takes Tawian/ N Korea took the south etc, imagine the genocidal pay back for their populations having dared to resist & speak out against there invaders & oppresors.
These scenarios if they were to happen, would bring the rapture upon us don’t forget the issue with israel.if the world is at war then, the likes of Iran and Syria, Egypt and Jordan WOULD GO FOR THE ISRAELIS who would definitely respo with their nuclear weapons.
You are completely wrong. Egypt and Jordan wouldn’t “go for” Israel. Israel has had peace with Egypt for 45 years, and Jordan has had good relations with Israel for over 50, nearly as long as Israel has had nukes. I doubt Assad would attack Israel either; he has enough of his own problems. These countries have no cause to attack Israel and certainly not the Palestinian cause. Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon have all been on the sharp end of significant Palestinian attacks: in Jordan and Lebanon the Palestinian instigation of Civil Wars in their countries. Hamas in Gaza has trained… Read more »
Russian ability to produce it’s own stockpiles must be pretty worn by now
Sunak today has said that we are on a war footing – perhaps he means just that one shell factory.
and to think in 2002, BAE were looking to close the UK shell case factory ( predecessor to the current Washington factory)
That’s what happens when you sell munition factories to private companies and don’t order enough stuff for it to make business sense.
It’s either got to be a nationalise business that’s there order or no orders ready to go or a private business with a long term contract that allows a profit to be made.
Indeed, luckily in 2008 the MOD placed a £2 billion 15 year contract with BAE, who decided the old shell factory needed to be replaced and built the current plant with new updated machinery.
The appetite of supplies for Ukraine must be in the wan millions and millions of pounds have been given to the Ukrainians yet progress seems to be losing momentum and a stalemate situation appears to have been established.theUK, FOR ALL it’s good intentions cannot sustain the numbers of equipment being given to the Ukraine. Our own national defense, must be the principle subject but, there are no votes in the support of Ukraine
We said we would fully support Ukraine at the start. The U.K. and others looks like they thought a few NLAWs would frighten off Russia. When that became apparent that wasn’t working the U.K. should have went full war production. Defence spending up to 3% and 3% on Ukraine stuff. This is Russia ffs. Not some little rag tag mob. If the U.K. wasn’t going to support properly it shouldn’t have said it would. If China invaded Taiwan I’d expect a strong statement but not the U.K. gives its full support to Taiwan and will do so as long as… Read more »
Yes but give them to Ukr first then back fill the Army war stock.
After backfill, we then need to increase the war stocks as by all accounts we have only enough ammo for a week or two of intensive fighting.
I know. Sunak presenting himself as a responsable rearmamentist when the record shows otherwise. All smoke, mirrors & lies. We know how our forces are at such a low nadir & an extra 0.5% long after Tory HMG are history, while in the right direction at last, will only slightly improve forces back towards sensible peacetime levels.
There is more chance of me doing such a powerful fart it blows the moon off it’s orbit sending it crashing into the sun than Sunak being anywhere near PM office or the MOD when the defence budget reaches 2.5%.
The chancellor is probably combing the books just now looking to see what he could reassign to the defence budget to make it appear bigger than it is.
Ukraine aid announcement today 400 vehicles and lots of missiles.
According to sky News this morning UK government to give 3 Billion worth of Aid to Ukraine . Artillery rounds Missiles etc , and 400 Trucks ? Not sure we had any trucks left in storage or have we took some off our guy’s 🤔 .Either way our cupboards most be getting empty by now it’s time Sunak starts restocking our stock ,Vehicle’s Ammunition etc . Really PM helping Ukraine all well and good ,but it’s time to listen to what our Top Brass are telling you 🙏 🇬🇧
Like he will do that..the hole in the cupboard will be someone else’s problem…infact it will be labours…I’m surprised they have not given more…the bigger the hole the better for the Conservative Party…
In reducing the reg Army from 82,000 to 73,000, then a number of trucks will become available.
That’s a bloody big lot of military aid! You’d hope the replenishing and updating of UK stocks is already underway!
Let’s hope so 👍
Is that £245m investment into production facilities in the UK or simply buying ammunition o the international arms market. If it is the former then that is by far the best solution both for the UK and Ukraine. 100’s of thousands of rounds of UK manufactured ammunition would be a definitely be a big improvement in our nations defence establishment. As an aside I was reading around some stuff online the other day and found a report on the UK parliament website about how much support the UK had provided to the Ukraine. Although, no numbers were given (probably a… Read more »
I was thinking the same thing about the £245M- that would be very good news if so, and would make sense in the context of long-term support etc.
I think they are counting the military aid twice now by putting it with the defence budget when it comes from elsewhere just to make it look like the defence budget is bigger.
Hmm, I wondered about that as well, there was something about the phrasing in recent announcements, or may be I’m just seeing things..! In any event I wouldn’t put it past them. In one respect you could justify the statements in the sense that the money going to Ukraine does in fact benefit the collective defence of Europe On the other hand whilst our defence interests overlap with Ukraine there are significant differences, not least because we are an island nation! The thing is statements about increase defence spending that I have seen don’t make it clear whether some of… Read more »
It’s not just wording like “Ukraine’s defence is UK’s defence” (although that’s a bit of a giveaway). In a recent Defence Select Committee conversation there was a discussion on how several items will be added during the year to provide a total, and I’m pretty sure that included Ukraine. The Select Committee were trying to get a comparison between the base numbers year on year, but Shapps and Williams were saying the “right” comparison was with the added items as they had already been added into last years numbers and therefore need to be added to this years to get… Read more »
Hi Jon,
Hmm, smoke and mirrors, and our politicians wonder why they are held in such low esteem?
One day a politician will give a straight answer – right about when hell freezes over…
Cheers CR
Fine, as long as those stocks are replaced …..but that is probably wishful thinking.
Absolutely 😞
The UK should never have closed down so much of its R&D and manufacturing capacity.
Just bring back Royal Ordnance at Nottingham ?
We do not need them, its fine just give them away with out replacing them,
£245 million would only pay for c60,000 155mm shells.
Probably get a lot more Pakistani 122mm though.
Where are they coming from ?
Mind you, we have no tanks or artillery to use our stock in…
More propaganda from the lie machine.
Any left for us?