The UK has announced that it will supply “scores of artillery guns, hundreds of drones” plus 50,000 rounds and more anti-tank weapons to Ukraine in the coming weeks.

“The delivery of the new equipment will significantly step up the UK’s support as the country fights to repel Russia’s brutal and unjustified invasion.”

More than 20 M109 155mm self-propelled guns and 36 L119 105mm artillery guns will soon arrive from the UK, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace announced in an update to Parliament today. Counter-battery radar systems and more than 50,000 rounds of ammunition for Ukraine’s existing Soviet era artillery will also follow, he added.

“This equipment will bolster the Armed Forces of Ukraine’s ability to defend itself against Russia’s indiscriminate use of artillery. The UK will also send more than 1,600 more anti-tank weapons in the coming weeks, along with drones, including hundreds of loitering aerial munitions.”

So far 6,900 NLAW, Javelin, Brimstone and other anti-tank weapons, as well as 16,000 artillery rounds, six Stormer vehicles fitted with Starstreak anti-air missile launchers and hundreds of missiles have been sent to Ukraine.

The UK has also supplied maritime Brimstone missiles, multiple launch rocket systems, 120 armoured fighting vehicles and large quantities of non-lethal aid including more than 82,000 helmets, 8,450 sets of body armour and over 5,000 night vision devices, say the MoD.

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said:

“The scale and range of equipment we are providing demonstrates the strength of our resolve. Together with our international partners, we will ensure Ukraine has the tools to defend their country from Putin’s illegal invasion.”

It comes after the UK launched a major training operation for Ukrainian forces, with the potential to train up to 10,000 soldiers.

George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. He also works for the NHS. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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AJH
AJH
20 days ago

I completely support the response to Ukraine showed by NATO countries, however, I would like to know what the UK Armed Forces are replacing the various systems bound for Ukraine with? The defence budget hasn’t changed and there has never been much put to one side for defence anyway so who pays for replacement artillery, ammunition and missiles? When will it be delivered and in what quantity?

David
David
20 days ago
Reply to  AJH

Absolutely. One would like to think the Treasury will be reimbursing the MoD but…..

Even if the Treasury does provide the replacement funding I don’t trust the MoD to actually spend it effectively and not squander it elsewhere. For all the fault of successive governments – on both sides of the isle – in underfunding defence, the MoD have crapped on the blanket way too many times on procurement issues!

Anyway, we have a great Defence Secretary in Ben Wallace, so I trust him to keep the Treasury in check on this issue.

Expat
Expat
20 days ago
Reply to  David

I don’t think the MoD is much different for other departments. I recall some foreign aid was spent on a girl band in Somali for instance. I expect there’s billions wasted in the NHS but its political sensitive to call these out.

Pacman27
Pacman27
20 days ago
Reply to  Expat

That’s an interesting one and at the time annoyed me so I looked into it. turns out it was money well spent as the girl band were getting some key female health, hygiene and welfare information out to a wider population that would drive key changes in behaviour. From recollection it was well funded and was measuring the effectiveness of the spend. whilst a bit unusual, getting messaging out there can save lives and cost a lot less than the subsequent treatments. I think this was stopped due to the optics, but actually was probably a good use of funding.… Read more »

Expat
Expat
20 days ago
Reply to  Pacman27

I confess I didn’t look into the girl band thing closely but sounds like in that case it was reasonable use of funds. But I’m sure if you went through foreign aid funding you’d fond a lot if wasted money. But I agree that every thing should be done to source from the UK.

Pacman27
Pacman27
20 days ago
Reply to  Expat

one of my ex colleagues (Eastern European ) worked for DFID and said it infuriated them how much they wasted.

they subsequently left, but said DFID could only really spend circa 50% effectively and the rest was handed out to hit targets with little or no oversight or strategy.

Matt
Matt
20 days ago
Reply to  Pacman27

There’s something in both halves of that.

DFID were rather notorious for shovelling money out of the door in Q4.

Pacman27
Pacman27
20 days ago
Reply to  Matt

It would seem to be the case, but it should also be acknowledged that they are world leading in many areas.

so from my perspective the dept either wasn’t big enough, or wasn’t empowered enough, which left too much to do in Q4 resulting in a dumping strategy, which is a pity.

Matt
Matt
19 days ago
Reply to  Pacman27

Yes.

Steve R
Steve R
19 days ago
Reply to  Pacman27

My guess is that DFID won’t have to worry about that soon; I imagine the bulk of their work will be in Ukraine going forward.

David Steeper
David Steeper
20 days ago
Reply to  Pacman27

100% of UK overseas aid has to be spent on UK products.

Paul.P
Paul.P
20 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Disagree. It should be spent in a way that makes its recipients self sufficient in food production.

David Steeper
David Steeper
20 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Food aid is extremely rare and a very small component. In terms of ag aid you’re talking about equipment. Tractors new herbicides more resistant crops etc.

David Steeper
David Steeper
19 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

If I was blonde i’d call it a blonde moment sorry. That’s what happens but it’s spent in UK except for local staff etc. It gives those defending overseas aid another argument in it’s favour. It doesn’t matter too the Guardian etc because they hate UK but for everyone else it’s a positive.

Paul.P
Paul.P
19 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

No worries. Firstly I think we need to distinguish between aid and the foreign aid budget. Secondly, I see at least 3 kinds of aid; humanitarian/DR, security and commercial/economic. On the first 2 we can be proud of what we do, lead by our armed services. It’s the last one where we need a rethink, especially given the Chinese buying influence ( actually control) using cheap loans to 3rd world countries. While they might need some improved infrastructure, what the people of these countries is self sufficiency in food and the building up of their schools and health systems in… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
19 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Agreed but don’t believe they will utter gratitude for it. For the global left who’s narrative is as dominant there as it is here we are utterly evil. If you want to know how these countries view us read the Guardian.

Paul.P
Paul.P
19 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Understood, the Grauniad runs on presenting as ‘news’ selected statistics and outlier events, however distant, which support their despairing world view. Abandon hope all who enter there….😉

Last edited 19 days ago by Paul.P
David Steeper
David Steeper
19 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

😁😁

Matt
Matt
20 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

I don’t think that that is true.

I think we are more relaxed than most Western countries on that one.

Happy to be proved wrong if it has changed.

David Steeper
David Steeper
20 days ago
Reply to  Matt

Yeah it was changed can’t remember if it was May or Johnson.

Martin
Martin
19 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Traditionally it has been, largely on Rolls Royce. 😀

David Steeper
David Steeper
19 days ago
Reply to  Martin

And Swiss bank accounts.

Jonathan
Jonathan
20 days ago
Reply to  Expat

The big waste of DOH health money has never been the NHS: 1) The National single electronic record, an impossible task that every told the DOH was impossible, but industry new better, Fujitsu and other pissed 12 billion Of health money into their shareholders Before admitting it could not be done. 2) The national pandemic stocks, held by the office of the civil contingency secretariat and exc office of the cabinet office. Left in warehouses for a decade so it all went passed it expiry date and rotted, billions of pounds of kit that could have been rotated out to… Read more »

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

£14.5 billion spent on track and trace- which never worked, was developed by Dominic Cummings sister’s company who had zero experience of app development and zero experience of health care or infection control measures.
The real rub is that South Korea offered the UK their 5G enabled app which was proven to work, developed after SARS and would have been handed over plugged in and ready to go for the princely sum of just £25 million.
£25 millions vs £14.5 billion..hhmmmmm let me think about that one. And dont even get me started on the dodgy PPE contracts.

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Those as well.scary how much money gets pissed away on Politicians ideas before the health and social care system get a chance spend it.

johan
johan
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

issue is with the Health and social care was it came under the local councils. who take their budgets and rather invest in their services, invest in Airports or Artwork collections?. yet they have no issues with blowing £100,000 on vanity projects. they have screwed the system and made £ms out of it as soon as it got tough all ran away, but not before they had killed of there customer base.

johan
johan
19 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

YEAH RIGHT so a company had a global pandemic app ready to be delivered. UTTER HORSESHITE. track and trace and its spawn is now actually working within its current form. so maybe not such a waste as it’s a 3-year contract. and to add context £14b is a month’s Budget for the NHS. 5G doesn’t that crash Aircraft???? PPE context again every country in the world wanted the same PPE, and we are talking a ship load. not a box of gloves from B & Q. mistakes were made, yes but you like me came out the other side. be… Read more »

Kombi78
Kombi78
19 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

The NHS Test and Trace budget was originally £22 billion in 2020/21 and £15 billion in 2021/22, making a total of £37 billion (though the 2021/22 budget was subsequently revised down to £14 billion). NHS Test and Trace spent £13.5 billion in 2020/21, while spending in 2021/22 amounted to £16 billion, making a total of £29.5 billion. A detailed account of how the funding for 2021/2022 was used has not yet been published, but in June 2021 the National Audit Office (NAO) published a breakdown of spending in the first year of the scheme. The vast majority of the £13.5… Read more »

Expat
Expat
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

But I’m sure there’s waste in day to day running. Having experienced other systems myself NHS does not appear comparable I paid 1300 per year for health care the same tests and consultancy I had here which took months was done in 1 day!!! The NHS here cost about 2400 per year person and the service is much slower.

Last edited 19 days ago by Expat
Jonathan
Jonathan
17 days ago
Reply to  Expat

Hi expat to be honest most European health systems run at about £3000 to £4000 per year. We tend to cost a lot as we get older. If we all took a pill to end it all when we started getting long term conditions healthcare would be cheap, the Massive burden of health costs is in the last few years of life. So there is lots of people with healthcare costs a £ 20,000 a year. from the international studies the NHS is the most cost effective system in the major western economies, with the US private system being the… Read more »

Pacman27
Pacman27
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

not only is it possible to have an electronic record system but it is implemented in other countries.

The problem with that particular program, and you can extrapolate to others is mainly down to poor governance that resulted in allowing the 2 main vendors being able to implement their win proprietary database software, instead of an open standard. This meant the files could not be shared.

logically this program was set up pretty well, it was poorly governed and executed.

Pacman27
Pacman27
19 days ago
Reply to  Pacman27

We should have got the people behind Tesco Clubcard behind it, now everything has moved on this would be ripe for a cloud based solution.

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago
Reply to  Pacman27

The big problem is actual how you allowed your systems of electronic health records to develop. Those nations that went down a free market low regulation route have not really been able to reset to a single electron health record ( US and U.K. etc) where as those nations that always kept high levels of control or only ever had a single option succeeded (Germany and other highly controlled systems). The U.K. electronic health care record landscape is a bit of a Wild West anything goes affair and that was never ever going to work for a single universal electronic… Read more »

Pacman27
Pacman27
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

That’s fine and I understand your point, but as with a national ID card it can be done, even if you start with new borns and take it from there. my health data has been given to Google and/or Facebook by the NHS so they clearly have it and there are companies that know how to do it. for me time to have a national ID card linked to everything. Not least to stop the debacle of the uk govt not realising it had 5m+ more Europeans than t thought, despite all evidence pointing to it and it being a… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago
Reply to  Pacman27

Don’t get me wrong I would love a Universal national patient record, but to get there we would need successive governments to sign up to a process of controlling the U.K. market around electronic patient record systems until we were in a place where all those 1000s of different systems could easily exchange data ( at the moment we have a market full of competitors who have no interest in working together). So first it’s less of a technical project and more of a culture change within a market place.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
20 days ago
Reply to  Expat

I’ve worked in the NHS- there are billions and billions squandered- locums, agency staff, terrible staff sickness not being managed. but then there are the literally tens of thousands of fat cat managers who are on very nice salaries whilst delivering absolutely zero improvement to patient care. You could cull 30,000 band 7,8 divisional, deputy divisional and various other grades of managers and the clinical frontline wouldn’t even detrimentally notice they were gone, except for the fact the clinicians weren’t being called to attend continuous pointless meetings anymore, Or being asked to spend their precious time replying to urgent programmes… Read more »

Cj
Cj
19 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Have to say your spot on, I worked in hospitals for years and a lot of people took the piss, every summer loads felt unwell and would be off for three to four weeks at a time then there was over a million spent on a new critical care unit in one hospital I worked in just for us to be moved to another hospital and the unit was never used, there is an attitude in hospitals where people know they will get plenty of money for doing nowt, porters were raking in about £35,000 to £40,000 sitting in the… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago
Reply to  Cj

I’m going to take you to task on the porters earning 35-40k that’s just not true, their pay is rubbish and I don’t know what hospital you worked in but The porters I the trusts I work at work really hard. Almost all staff in acute hospitals work their arses off and those managers you talk about are the people who make sure the services keep working and don’t kill people, something as complex as healthcare does not just happen. It’s the most complex systems ever created and will quickly fall apart if not well led. Most of those managers… Read more »

Cj
Cj
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Hi Jonathan thanks for the reply, I worked as a porter and I did work my arse off because I always worked the front end and there wer’e a lot of other porters did work hard with clinical waste and other things but there wer’e more that sat in an enclosed area most of the time working the wards which was the easiest job of the lot, they wer’e usually the one’s that wer’e (not well) in summer then put in for lot’s of holidays in winter happened all the time, working four on four off you get all sorts… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago
Reply to  Cj

Hi Cj, don’t worry I know there were always a few who avoided work and a couple of areas that were know to be a bit easier than others ( cough out patients cough) but generally most people always worked their arses off especially the porters I worked with, most nursing assistants and any staff nurse not under the age of 50 ( I’m a firm believer that there was a reason why nurses once had a retirement age of 55, by the time your in your fifties acute Care at staff nurse level is probably not the right place,… Read more »

Steve R
Steve R
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

At the university where I work we have quite a few NHS porters coming from the local hospital to work for us as cleaners and porters. Not a chance they were on anywhere near that money; we pay them from £10 an hour so they’re on around £18K a year; no one would cut their pay almost in half like that.

Must be massive amounts of overtime to get that.

Cj
Cj
18 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Hi Jonathan I know a couple of guys who would argue til they were blue in the face that outpatients is a hard wee shift hahaha, pretty sure porters got better enhancements than nurses because they have a higher base rate so most nurses told me anyway?I worked in aau cau and a&e still remember we were getting hammered there was no beds I had about eight trolleys and beds in corridors at the back of a&e then we had a big rta called in so we had to move nearly all from a&e and resus for it coming in… Read more »

johan
johan
19 days ago
Reply to  Cj

attractive to the lazy workforce, who can hide in the lower bowls. and once in its very hard to shift the shite as they just won’t flush. Nurse on my Mums ward, tried to put ear drops in her eyes because he couldnt read English and wrote the wrong date on her medical chart and overdosed her.
For all the Great People who work in the NHS there are 3 lazy Bums

Steve R
Steve R
19 days ago
Reply to  johan

I doubt that’s actually the case – the 3 bums to every hard worker. Probably the other way around but even that is unacceptable.

Cj
Cj
18 days ago
Reply to  johan

Wow that’s a bit of a shocker and your spot on very hard to get rid off they usually get union involved and tell them they have been wronged and want something done about it!

Cj
Cj
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Sorry I forgot to say I stopped working six years ago now.

David Steeper
David Steeper
19 days ago
Reply to  Cj

With the MoD’s record on waste I don’t think we’re in a position to lecture other Dept’s.

Cj
Cj
19 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Hi David, I’m kinda new to reading up on defence so I bow to your experience but Ajax seems like a bit of a nightmare to me, it’s a shame we have some of the best people on the planet but seem to dither about at times by what I can see so far, hope it changes soon because what we do build usually looks bloody fantastic when they get it right thanks.

David Steeper
David Steeper
19 days ago
Reply to  Cj

Don’t ever bow to anyone’s experience. You’ve as much right to express an opinion as anyone on here. On particular subjects particular people have personal knowledge I for one don’t for example but that doesn’t mean we can’t contribute. Welcome to the site. 👍

Cj
Cj
19 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Thanks very much David much appreciated, some of the things I’ve read on here and other sites I don’t quite understand but I love reading the explanations that you all come up with and it give me a better understanding. 👍

David Steeper
David Steeper
19 days ago
Reply to  Cj

Same. Give it 6 months and you’ll surprise yourself.

David Barry
David Barry
19 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

You always contribute to this site but to that never served railwayman, Daniele, who can debate the Orbat of the British Armed Forces…. for the last 100 years, arn.t we all just newbies? 🙂

David Steeper
David Steeper
19 days ago
Reply to  David Barry

👍

Jonathan
Jonathan
18 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Agree, indeed an opinion is one of those things we get to express for free. Lucky as we are to live in a society that allows it.

David Steeper
David Steeper
18 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

👍👍

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
19 days ago
Reply to  Cj

My friend is a hospital porter in Hastings area – he gets nothing like £35-£40k and he certainly does not sit around doing jack – he works hard. He has to augment his pay by an evening job on the side.

Cj
Cj
19 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Hi Graham, I’m sure your friend is a great worker as I said to Jonathan there are some great people work in the NHS but there are others who play the system and have done for years, I can only say about myself and others that I worked with concerning pay, I worked 4 on 4 off days nights the only one’s who didn’t get great pay wer’e working fixed shift 8 til 4 as far as I can remember and the phrase (it’s not my job) was passed about a lot and I have worked jobs where even with… Read more »

Andy P
Andy P
19 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

From my experience the MOD isn’t immune from squandering cash and I’m not just talking about Ajax sized feck ups, its all the way down to the small bits and bobs in the supply chain that are vastly overpriced. Its seems if its government money then its there to be spunked.

johan
johan
19 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

You can bet your beer money that most of the Kit sent to the Ukraine is the same kit that has been stored in these defunct airfields as it was unfit for use. as i was in Lyneham the other month and a Hanger that used to be crammed full of rejected kit, is now empty.

Andy P
Andy P
19 days ago
Reply to  johan

Good, I’m glad its going to a good home. As a bit of a hoarder myself its good to see stuff that’s kept ‘just in case’ or ‘it’ll come in handy for something’ put to good use.

johan
johan
19 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

We know its the largest employer in the UK, and employed people unfit for the roles. and with any large organization its grown on grown. 75% of the NHS operating Budget goes on Cancer test and treatment. and has More people sucking a pension than employed. its to large to turn. but its full of Bellends like you cleaning toilets

Jonathan
Jonathan
18 days ago
Reply to  johan

That rubbish, the NHS has far more people working active member of the pension scheme than on a pension and the NHS pension scheme it’s totally funded by the membership and even gives the half a billion into the tax base each year. i pay 14.5% of my wages to my pension nhs pension scheme how much do you pay towards your pension ?

Jonathan
Jonathan
18 days ago
Reply to  johan

75% of the nhs budge doesn’t not go on cancer treatment and diagnosis, where do you get this rubbish. The NHS actually publishes what it spends on what so and has a number of independent bodies reviewing how we spend money so if you want you can actually look it up.

Jonathan
Jonathan
17 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

The best way to destroy any industry is sack the most experienced staff who actually understand who things work. Something like the NHS just does not happen, health systems are the most complex systems ever developed by man, they also face an overchanging health need, someone needs to decide how many hips we do vs how much up stream therapy on joint management vs mental health support. The nhs has one of the most lean management structure in any western healthcare system. I’ve worked in jobs from a hospital kitchen, care assistant, staff nurse, running an ED to overseeing The… Read more »

Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
20 days ago
Reply to  David

Well said 👍 can’t but feel that the policy ( with the same old nebulous cover) will be mostly about hoping the Ukraine war will weaken Russia so much we may have a decade of relative freedom from concern. But of course as we know ten years is nothing when you have to improve, replace and finance military equipment and supplies so we need to pull our finger out now to at the very least to restore our stocks to pre war levels and indeed plan for what comes next for the forces. As you say at least Wallace will… Read more »

David Lloyd
David Lloyd
20 days ago
Reply to  David

The money is coming from an “underspend” by the BEIS. The money not spent was to fund 100,000 EV charging points, a new 5GWh wind farm on the Dogger Bank, £25million for a demonstration lliquid air electricity storage system developed by Manchester University and by scrapping the grant system to subsidise new EV purchases Kwarteng is a climate change denier. He has given the fossil fuel industry £17 billion subsidy over 15 years for new oil and gas developments in the N sea and approved an additional £75 per bill levy to pay for the new Sizewell C nuclear plant.… Read more »

slicks
slicks
20 days ago
Reply to  AJH

Why would UK, or any other European country so far away from Mordor need any of these weapons? We don’t. Better them being useful on the actual front.

Sean
Sean
20 days ago
Reply to  AJH

It was announced weeks ago that the Treasury had supplied £3bn from the emergency contingency fund to cover the Ukraine War. This included funds to replace weapons/ammunition supplied by the U.K.

Deep32
Deep32
19 days ago
Reply to  Sean

And the money from said fund comes from where exactly, perhaps more borrowing…..
Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for supplying the UKR with what it needs, best thing Boza ever did, but let’s be honest, the money ‘contingency fund’ or whatever is still coming out of our pockets.

Sean
Sean
19 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

All government funding ultimately comes from taxes. Borrowing just defers it. But without taxes we’d have no military, NHS, or education system, so they’re a be necessary evil. Though there’s plenty of other government spending I’d slash.

Deep32
Deep32
19 days ago
Reply to  Sean

Wouldn’t we all Sean wouldn’t we all!
Point is the money comes from somewhere thus will need paying for no matter what fund/dept it’s for/from.

Sean
Sean
19 days ago
Reply to  Deep32

Yes from taxes, pretty sure everyone knows that with the exception of the Labour Party 🤷🏻‍♂️
Personally I have no issue with my taxes being spent on arming the Ukraine instead of wasting it on, for example, Diversity Managers in the NHS.

Jonathan
Jonathan
18 days ago
Reply to  Sean

Cross my heart I have never come across a Diversity manager in the NHS. We do have people working on accessing healthcare for hard to reach groups, but that generally includes having to go and meet scary people who the police try to avoid and asking them to let their children have vaccinations please.

Stu
Stu
15 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan
Jonathan
Jonathan
14 days ago
Reply to  Stu

All I can say is thank goodness it’s only a 6 month short term contract and it’s in London which is a law unto itself. Basically the rest of the NHS in England and NHS London have a bit of a hate hate relationship. NHS London gets 800 pounds more funding per head than the rest of the county ( 37% more) while having the shortest journey times, no issue with rural isolation and having 1 hour long journeys to definitive care..what is worse is the DOH live there and decide everything that happens in London should happen in the… Read more »

David Barry
David Barry
15 days ago
Reply to  Sean

Well 50, 50

I’ll support the Ukr but, the Labour Party understands taxes.

100% on pride cobblers etc.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
19 days ago
Reply to  AJH

Agreed, but I do wonder why the entirety of NATO evidently cannot supply arms and ammunition fast enough to prevent the Ukrainian front line from regularly running out as we’re hearing, especially after all these months. In other words, I want any explanation to be due mainly to logistics and not principally politics. We cannot afford to ‘lose’ this on behalf of Ukraine. No judgement at this time, just monitoring future outcomes.

Sean
Sean
19 days ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

Sadly that are countries in NATO that are not pulling their weight in supplying weapons to Ukraine. Not surprising given how slow many have been at meeting the 2% spending target.

David Barry
David Barry
19 days ago
Reply to  Gavin Gordon

different calibres is a big issue. However UKR moving over NATO ammo.

Matt
Matt
20 days ago

Are parts of this from other sources.

Have M109s not been retired here a long time ago and sold off to Austria? But will BAE have a stock?

Do we even have loitering munitions?

Do we need a Gromit to keep Wallace on track ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrmZIgVoQw4😎

Last edited 20 days ago by Matt
Cymbeline
Cymbeline
20 days ago
Reply to  Matt

Indeed, I think AS90 replaced the M109 in my old Regt back in 97, so it would have been out if service for 25 years. I Assume in the not too far distant future AS90 will be replaced and become war stock so I feel the any value the Ukrainians can get out of those M109s now is more beneficial for us and the rest of Europe than gathering dust in some warehouse.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
19 days ago
Reply to  Cymbeline

When AS90 is replaced, we will not keep any in war reserve stock – they will all be disposed of ASAP.

Crabfat
Crabfat
20 days ago
Reply to  Matt

Brilliant! Haven’t seen that one for a few years. Show it to the Russian soldiers – they’ll all die from laughing!

farouk
farouk
20 days ago
Reply to  Matt

Matt wrote: “”Are parts of this from other sources.”” Yes, Ive posted above a link to an article from a month ago where it states the UK purchased the 20 M109s from an arms company in Belguim and then refurbed them here. Matt wrote: “”Do we even have loitering munitions?”” Yes the Uk purchased a load of Switchblade 30s last year (some of which we have handed over to the Ukraine) Matt wrote: “”Do we need a Gromit to keep Wallace on track ?”” To be fair he has done more than anybody else across Europe, seeing as the Uk… Read more »

Matt
Matt
19 days ago
Reply to  farouk

Thanks.

Don’t worry – I have become an immense admirer of Mr Wallace. If I get the chance I will buy him a drink – he deserves it.

But I couldn’t resist the pun.

Last edited 19 days ago by Matt
Graham Moore
Graham Moore
19 days ago
Reply to  Matt

M109s were retired in ’92/93 and all sold to Austria in ’94. BAE would have a reference vehicle, probably in the US, as they are the DA. They would not have a ‘stock’ of them.

JamesD
JamesD
20 days ago

I wonder where 50k Soviet arty rounds are coming from? Surely wouldn’t have them sitting in warehouse in the UK?

Sean
Sean
20 days ago
Reply to  JamesD

Since the start of the war the MoD has had people going around the world looking for Soviet era weapons and ammunition to acquire and then supply to Ukraine.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
19 days ago
Reply to  Sean

I also read that the Russian’s are doing exactly the same and all over the world arms dealers in shitty countries with ex soviet weapons stocks are having a field day playing off Russian and Chinese arms buyers against Western (mainly Uk and US). Still if HIMARs continues to hit Russia’s ammo dumps and we can keep a supply line open into Ukraine than that could be a turning point in the war allowing the Ukrainians to reach firepower parity or possibly even localised superiority to the shitty Russian army.

Sean
Sean
19 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Arguably the Ukrainians could be at effective parity with the Russians. Although the Russians have far larger numbers of everything, they use large amounts of it randomly targeting civilians, housing, infrastructure, etc.
Whereas the Ukrainians focus on targeting the Russian military and strategically significant targets…

It’s like comparing a gang member ‘spraying and praying’ with a MAC-10 versus a trained soldier with a sniper rifle. It’s not how much you fire, it’s what you hit that counts.

Paul.P
Paul.P
20 days ago

Talk in the Daily Telegraph today of sending Gripens.

Matt
Matt
20 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Czechia has chosen F-35 from late 20s, even though offered their existing leased Gripens for effectively nothing.

Possible source if they can be backfilled?

Paul.P
Paul.P
19 days ago
Reply to  Matt

Gripen might be politically less provocative than US aircraft but there are only a dozen in Czech Republic. In terms of numbers, spares, training F16 makes more sense. For me the key capability is less air superiority than delivery of precision guided weapons – game changer.

Dead1
Dead1
16 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

There’s about 14 JAS-39 white tails that were produced and SAAB is looking for customers. Not sure how complete these are.

Rest of European Gripen fleet is relatively small:

Czechia – 14 JAS-39C/D – sole supersonic fighter, to be replaced by F-35 in late 2020s.

Hungary – 14JAS-39C/D – sole supersonic fighter

Sweden – 94 JAS-39C/D – sole fighter. JS-39E replacement for 72 JAS-39C slowly entering service.

So no-one really has spare airframes right now except for 14 white-tails.

Paul.P
Paul.P
15 days ago
Reply to  Dead1

L159 might fit the bill.

Dead1
Dead1
15 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

It doesn’t offer much capability- it is an upgraded L39 trainer after all.

Paul.P
Paul.P
15 days ago
Reply to  Dead1

I think the Czech ones can do Sidewinder and Maverick

David Steeper
David Steeper
20 days ago

Could everyone please read the article before commenting and asking questions

Sean
Sean
20 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

That’d be a novelty 😏

David Steeper
David Steeper
20 days ago
Reply to  Sean

👍

DMJ
DMJ
19 days ago
Reply to  David Steeper

Completely agree and I would add read earlier comments too before posting

David Steeper
David Steeper
19 days ago
Reply to  DMJ

Good point.

FieldLander
FieldLander
20 days ago

M109s are i think ex Belgium stock rejuvenated at unknown cost for the MoD because AS90 not fit to deploy? i am unsure that any plans to replace stock sent to Ukraine have been put into action as yet. ased on articles in Tulsa’s Defence Analysis.

Stc
Stc
20 days ago

It’s becoming a bit of a circus. With 100 US raptors clearing the sky’s over Ukraine and a 100 plus typhoons and reapers doing ground attack and this thing is over inside 3 months. Russia sent home and hopefully the Kremlin learns a hard lesson. This mess is all Bidens fault, lack of mental ability, which is sad, but also a lack of backbone from the leader of the West. Boris may have had his flaws but I am sure he would had made sure the UK contributed more than our fair share to the above. It’s a hard lesson… Read more »

Netking
Netking
20 days ago
Reply to  Stc

“This mess is all Biden’ss fault”

There is major land war going on in Europe because the war criminal Putin decided to invade Ukraine and it’s all Biden’s fault. Do you guys even listen to the stuff that you say sometimes. Do you ever wonder if he was emboldened by the previous president kissing up to him at every chance he got. Even throwing his entire national intelligence infrastructure under the bus just to keep Putin from getting upset with him. Even calling him a genius for invading Ukraine this past February. Please come back to the real world.

Last edited 20 days ago by Netking
AlexS
AlexS
20 days ago
Reply to  Netking

Real world:
Obama admin: inept departure from in Iraq(and ISIS appear), invasion of Ucrania/Crimeia.
Trump admin: 0
Biden admin: inpet departure from Afghanistan(Taliban return), bigger invasion of Ucrania.

Showing ineptitude destroys deterrence, surprise…

Netking
Netking
19 days ago
Reply to  AlexS

Obama admin: inept departure from in Iraq(and ISIS appear), invasion of Ucrania/Crimeia.”

I think you should research the status of forces agreement between the government of Iraq and the US before you make that claim. Hint- it was signed by the previous president.

“Trump admin: 0”

That claim speaks volumes to be honest. I won’t even bother responding to that.

I really don’t want to get into a political debate as it destroys any meaningful discussion but seriously do a little open minded research before spouting some easily disproved claims.

Stc
Stc
20 days ago
Reply to  Netking

I accept that Putin is responsible for the deaths, murders, etc in Ukraine and I hope and pray he gets one day an appropriate comeupance. But Biden could have lead the West in preventing this war and did nothing. If fact I would say his policy was to let Russia have Ukraine, it was only with Ukrainians resolve, bravery and UK Nlaws did it dawn on that Whitehouse administration that they could help Ukraine seriously undermine one of their rivals. It’s still possible to end this war in the manner I previously prescribed. But it seems the yanks are “frit”… Read more »

John Walker
John Walker
19 days ago
Reply to  Stc

There was nothing short of putting NATO troops boots on the ground in Ukraine that was going to stop this invasion. Russia has been planning this since before 2014 as evidenced by all the years of preparation, building and extending military bases close to Ukraine and the ever larger and complex exercises held each year in Belarus and the takeover of Crimea. This act by Putin transcends any individual US President.

Netking
Netking
19 days ago
Reply to  Stc

I do think Biden and the US was slow to react so we agree on that and if the decision was mine the response would be a lot more forceful. But I imagine the president has to be a lot more deliberate when dealing with a nuclear armed state whose doctrine sees tactical nuclear weapons as just another tool in the toolbox. There are more than one ways to skin a cat and charging headfirst into a military confrontation with Russia plays into Putin’s hand.

Steve
Steve
19 days ago
Reply to  Netking

Realistically the only time NATO could have safely stopped this was before the war started, but everyone including me thought Russia was a serious threat and putting NATO forces there could have been a disaster. Now if they get involved, yes they could beat the Russian on the ground but it would like result in ww3.

I at the time before the war was saying we should have put a large NATO training mission into Ukraine, to make Russia think twice, but it would have been extremely risky

Dead1
Dead1
15 days ago
Reply to  Stc

I think the USA wanted the war. Russia was getting too assertive elsewhere and the Americans understood the benefits of a quagmire closer to home. Of course the Americans thought Ukrainian army would be wiped off the face of the planet in a few weeks so they openly stated they would be supporting an insurgency. Note the Americans have never cared much for any diplomatic solution since 2014 – they never participated in Minsk I or II. Biden administration also did the following before the war: Promised not to deploy US troops to fight Russians Refused to negotiate on any… Read more »

Expat
Expat
20 days ago
Reply to  Stc

Yep create a western version of Russias Wargner group but just on a different level. Ukraine contract them in, West states its a private organisation has no say over it.

Biden was to clear on what he wouldn’t do so for Putin the consequences were worth the Risk. Its ironic cos politians are usually were good at being nonspecific and ambiguous 😀

AlexS
AlexS
20 days ago
Reply to  Expat

Yeah that was quite dumb.
And US only said anything positive about Ukraine resistance well after the Russian initial assault failed.
For all his faults Boris and his Churchill fanboyism saved the day.

Steve
Steve
19 days ago
Reply to  AlexS

I really don’t get how Boris got this right, considering even he couldn’t name any real success stories of his PM or major of London, but somehow he got this one right. I suspect it was in spite of him and things happened without his involvement, but we won’t find out for a number of years. Whatever the reason, this has massively repaired our global military reputation after the damage caused by Iraq and worse still afgan. Plus no doubt will be a recruitment tool locally, as I’m sure many are proud of what our armed forces are doing indirectly… Read more »

Steve
Steve
19 days ago
Reply to  Expat

There are plenty of PMC in the US and UK, they are no different than Wargner group, although their tactics might be more human but same could be said about the conventional forces of UK/us Vs Russia.

Sean
Sean
20 days ago
Reply to  Stc

I think you’ll find this is all Putin’s fault.

Steve
Steve
19 days ago
Reply to  Sean

Yep, if Russia had taken it seriously at the start it would have been all over fast, they almost managed with what they did send. The west got lucky. Also Ukraine got lucky, I read their initial forces attacking the capital were meant to be massively reinforced by an airlift but Ukraine managed to take out the airfield just before it was due to land.

Last edited 19 days ago by Steve
Sean
Sean
19 days ago
Reply to  Steve

Russia took it seriously, they radically under estimated their opponent. They thought it would be a repeat of 2014 when they rolled in and took Crimea without any major resistance. Yes the VDV attacked Hostomel Airport in an attempt to secure it to allow reinforcements with armoured vehicles to be flown in. The plan was then to push to Kyiv, and to seize the government quarter within 72 hours. But the Ukrainians were ready for such an obvious move and pretty much wiped out the entire Russian attack force. The Russians repeated the airborne assault, this time aided by armoured… Read more »

Steve
Steve
19 days ago
Reply to  Sean

The underestimate was what I meant by not taking it seriously. Either their intel was terrible, which is unlikely considering how good Russia is at spying and clear evidence they had inside men, or the initial attack was polictically planned rather than planned by the military.

Go in light and take the city and claim it was a peace keeping mission aimed and stabalising Ukraine /weeding out terrorists linking it to west actions in afgan/Iraq, and lie heavily to the rest of the world like they did in Crimea, hoping to not take too much negative impact from the west.

Last edited 19 days ago by Steve
Steve
Steve
19 days ago
Reply to  Sean

I am wondering if ukraine did see it coming. You would think if they had been prepared for it, they would have put some anti air assets near the airport, resulting in the initial russian para drop being a turkey shoot.

Sean
Sean
19 days ago
Reply to  Steve

They did destroy several helicopters in the first wave using manpads – the troops were all helicoptered in.

Dead1
Dead1
16 days ago
Reply to  Sean

The Russians and west also forgot that the Russian army was defeated in 2014. 3 BTGs were wiped out including ones attacking Mariupol.

Everyone was too busy thinking about how clever those “little green men” were to remember just a few hundred kilometres east, the best units the Russians had were being cut to shreds.

This is why 2014 ended in such a stalemate too – the Russian offensive was stymied but Ukraine lacked offensive capability to push them out.

Dead1
Dead1
16 days ago
Reply to  Stc

How can you forget Russia is still a nuclear super power?!? Even if only a quarter of its active warheads is successfully deployed that’s still 400 nuclear warheads detonating in Europe and Russia!

Taking out Russia’s military would require numerous strikes on Russia itself be it airbases, SAM sites, C3 sites, railways and other logistics etc.. It would probably require an invasion of Kaliningrad to neutralise it.

At some point Russia would have no choice but to launch a nuclear retaliation even if it is mainly tactical nukes against allied formations or airbases.

FieldLander
FieldLander
20 days ago

Why did my post disappear? It was not inaccurate, but did mention another publication. just wondering.

FieldLander
FieldLander
20 days ago
Reply to  FieldLander

Whoops it has not.
Apologies.

Daedalus
Daedalus
20 days ago

It is more accurate to say that those M109s will arrive from Belgium via the UK. Those M109s are not ex-British Army examples but upgraded ex-Belgian Army M109A4BEs. They were stored in Belgium until very recently and might still be there in fact.

Rob
Rob
20 days ago

M109s will be very useful to Ukraine but I’m not too sure how useful 105mm light guns will be in an artillery duel with Russian 122mm & 152mm guns. I believe we are also supplying 3 x M270 GMLRS too.

Cymbeline
Cymbeline
20 days ago
Reply to  Rob

Rob, the thing with the light gun in the BA is that it’s air portable underslung. I don’t see that happening with the Ukrainian forces, I’m unsure what CB Radar the Orcs have and how long it would take them to return fire onto a enemy position, if it’s more than a couple of minutes then the Ukrainian forces could just shoot and scoot. The other opinion I could think where they might use them is in pre prepared defensive positions in the anti tank role.

grumpy old steve
grumpy old steve
19 days ago
Reply to  Cymbeline

I keep reading that the reason we retain the 105 light gun is because its air portable. But the M777 is air portable too, that was one of the key parameters for its design (and I bet I know which one the Ukrainians prefer!).
As you say, being able to drop it from a C17 or sling it under a Chinook are probably not primary concerns for the Ukrainians right now.
Still, hopefully we will send all the 105’s over and get them replaced with M777’s!!
No chance, I know..

Airborne
Airborne
18 days ago

Mate no chance as the ones being sent to Ukraine are the L119 and not in UK service, slightly different to the in use L118, and more importantly the 119s are still using the dial sight and not the APS.

grumpy old steve
grumpy old steve
20 days ago
Reply to  Rob

My thoughts too, not at all sure what use 105 light gun would be other than for basic artillery training maybe? Perhaps the MOD just want to clear out some of our old stuff to make way for something a little more useful like M777?
Only joking, I know that won’t happen, the light guns will go and not get replaced.

DFJ123
DFJ123
19 days ago
Reply to  Rob

Doubt they’ll be doing any dueling, more likely fire support for Kherson offensive. Smaller rounds maybe mean they can be used closer to advancing friendlies.

farouk
farouk
20 days ago

So whilst we are on an article about artillery, anybody seen the pictures and videos from the Antonovskiy Bridge over the Dnipro River which connects the Russian occupied city of Kherson with the area just above the Crimea. It’s the only bridge over the river for 50kms and it has been struck by the Ukrainian army using HIMARS these past 2 days. Not sure how wide the bridge is (Sure Ive read its 20 metres across) but they targeted it with GMLRS missiles the other day with TASS stating that Moscow claimed they shot down 5 out of 6 of… Read more »

farouk
farouk
20 days ago
Reply to  farouk

Rob Lee, has posted a number of tweets on the above subject. The interesting thing here, is if the Ukrainians can take down the bridge, it will limit the ability of Moscow to reinforce Kherson if they decide to advance on the city.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
19 days ago
Reply to  farouk

Hopefully they can keep these HIMARS units out of Russian hands and that the Kerch bridge is on their hit list too.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
20 days ago

We are going to need to replace all of this gifted equipment pretty damn quick- if Russia can grind out an eventual victory in Ukraine it will have to be confronted sooner or late and our armed forces need to be match fit. I’d strongly recommend using the foreign aide budget to replace all this equipment. No better use for it. I’d much rather the UK sensibly invested in reserve forces, ammunition stockpiles using foreign aid budget than giving it to China or India- both have taken a pro Russian stance on Putin’s expansionist war and both have nuclear and… Read more »

David Steeper
David Steeper
19 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

It’s depressing but true that most countries who need and recieve our aid are backing Russia. What that says about our Foreign policy and the nature of the regimes concerned is worth thinking about.

Steve
Steve
19 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

If Russia does grind out a win, it will be years before they can take on another country of any size, and so plenty of time for the UK to replace stocks.

Dead1
Dead1
15 days ago
Reply to  Steve

I don’t think Russia ever intended taking on another country of any size in a full fledged conventional war. Ukraine was meant to be a 3 day operation. Even before the war Russia’s military was too small to defend the country hence it’s doctrine was “active defence” ie limited offensive action to buy time and degrade enemy’s ability to launch offensive actions. And by 2030 even this would have been untenable with at least a third of the air force up for scrapping without replacement as production could not keep up with retirements. Basically Russians needed to replace about 800… Read more »

Steve
Steve
15 days ago
Reply to  Dead1

Yeah I think your right. Although I suspect it wasn’t quiet as black and white as made out about the quick war. If they really thought the war would be over quickly why did they amass over 200k soliders on the border. They must have been there as a contingency for it not being over fast, but clearly the contingency has badly failed.

Denis Kosta
Denis Kosta
15 days ago
Reply to  Steve

200k is not many soldiers for such a giant target such as Ukraine USSR deployed 500k for invasion of much smaller and much less populated Czechoslovakia. Arabs deployed 1 million men against Israel in 1973.

And there was no contingency qs Russian kept bashing their head against a Ukrainian wall for over a month before refocusing on Donbas.

Stu
Stu
15 days ago
Reply to  Steve

I think they ammassed 200k for appearances. Poor intel led them to believe that the sight of a seemingly huge & unstoppable force rolling down every road in Ukr would lead the Ukrainian Army to lay down their arms and capitulate, or welcome them rather than fight their “brothers”. It looks like (to me at least) the Russian leadership misread/missunderstood the reality on the ground & expected the Ukr government to either run away or welcome them too. Seems some were in the pay of Russian intelligence prior to hostilities or at least, that’s what the FSB was telling the… Read more »

Andrew D
Andrew D
19 days ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

👍

andy reeves
andy reeves
19 days ago

do we have ‘scores’ to give them?

DMJ
DMJ
19 days ago
Reply to  andy reeves

Did you read the earlier posts about these being ex Belguan?

andy reeves
andy reeves
19 days ago

i’m more than concerned that we are in danger of leaving the cupboard bare in giving so much away.there can’t be a lot left thats for our own needs

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago

I just did not realise the MOD shoved so much old kit into warehouses. Who knew….feels almost Russian in its philosophy ( the Soviets never threw anything away).

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago

Also where did we get 50,000 rounds for soviet artillery….did we rob someone

Rowan
Rowan
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

You’d be surprised what the MOD has locked away for a rainy day.

Ukrainepolis
Ukrainepolis
19 days ago

Great for world peace and security!. We urgently need to put Ukranian military into Typhoons and Apache helicopters including bunker bursting missiles. Training must start now so that in the next 6 months, they can bring war to an end.

dan
dan
19 days ago

This war would be over in a week if NATO had any real balls. But Biden is scared to death of Putin and starting WW3. So the suffering will go on and on with no end in sight. Btw, the old fool still hasn’t visited Ukraine but just visited Saudi Arabia and Israel. Ugh.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
19 days ago
Reply to  dan

Are u not scared of ww3! I and most I know were very concerned. Remember in February everyone thought Russia was a serious force of well trained and equipped forces. Hindsight is a great thing. The USA president can’t visit Ukraine. Could you imagine the secret service dept numbers needed. Russia would frame it as an invasion. He would have to travel on the ground by train or car. Can’t take airforce/marine force 1 into Ukraine. The USA has done lots and continues to do so. This is a conflict 1000s of miles away from them. They could easily of… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
19 days ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Standard Dan post.

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago
Reply to  dan

You do realise that world war three will probably be the end of humanity. It will almost without question lead to almost all nuclear powers using nuclear weapons and with modern crop modelling and greater understanding of the effect of black soot we know with a good probability 100 nuclear weapons would equate to a 10% loss of food production for a decade ( so every 100 warheads leads to the starvation and death of 10% of the worlds population). If Russia did not have 1000+ nuclear warheads then it would only be a questions of possible a few 10s… Read more »

Steve R
Steve R
19 days ago
Reply to  dan

And he should be scared of starting WW3! War isn’t a computer game, and what you advocate him doing might well result in global nuclear war and the death of billions!

You go on about Biden but your idol Trump was figuratively sucking Putin’s d*ck for 4 years. Probably literally, too!

Harry Bulpit
Harry Bulpit
19 days ago

Obviously there’s concerns over are own stock, but at the end of the day this stuff was mostly intended to fight aggressive Russians, and that’s what it’s been used for.

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago
Reply to  Harry Bulpit

Agree, it’s serving it’s purpose, Protecting western democracies ( us) from Aggressive authoritarian totalitarian states. I can’t think of a better use for it. Sometimes there is a moral question around supply arms ( and I struggle with anything we supply to any totalitarian states, even an ally that it’s pragmaticly sensible to support). But in this case we are supporting a democracy being attacked by a totalitarian state, these no question we should be throwing every support we can their way.

Luke Rogers
Luke Rogers
19 days ago

At least if UK forces have no ammo it makes it harder for them when they are trying to escort agency scabs in to displace me from my job.

Jacko
Jacko
19 days ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

You have of course made the effort to read the comments above and understand where this kit is coming from haven’t you? Please explain when any HM forces have escorted any agency workers anywhere?

Meirion X
Meirion X
19 days ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

HM Forces, Don’t escort agency workers in industrial disputes.
What planet are you living on?

Luke Rogers
Luke Rogers
19 days ago
Reply to  Meirion X

When it comes to the firemen I suspect HM forces will BE the scabs as they were before.

Airborne
Airborne
18 days ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

HM Forces the scabs during the fire strike? When we did it all we got was cheers, rounds of applause and crates of pop and drinks dropped off by pretty much every civvy we came across or drove past!!!! It would seem only you has a chip on your shoulder as on our 12 off we used to go and shoot the breeze with the striking fire fighters outside their station! You seem to be a prize throbber pulsing his way around this site carrying big chips on your weak shoulder!

Jacko
Jacko
19 days ago
Reply to  Meirion X

His name is actually Buck Rogers he lives in a galaxy far far away👍

Luke Rogers
Luke Rogers
19 days ago
Reply to  Jacko

That was this galaxy but in the 25th century…sadly I live in a time where Kwasi Kwarteng and the UK gov is the biggest threat to my way of life, not Putin. To think I voted for them too 🤦‍♂️

Jacko
Jacko
19 days ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

Come on then Buck I will ask just what is it you do that you are so concerned that the nasty state is going to kill you off?

Airborne
Airborne
19 days ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

WTF gibberish are your lips flapping about?

Meirion X
Meirion X
18 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

😄

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
19 days ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

😆😳

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago
Reply to  Luke Rogers

You sound like you having a hard time. Hope it gets better.

Steven Kirkland
Steven Kirkland
19 days ago

This tragic time in history just feels we’re pissing this supply up against a brick wall.

I think Putin won’t think twice about using it’s various missle force’s and think we’re staring down the barrel of larger NATO involvement as supply chains become target’s for Putin’s propaganda machine.

Watch this space lads, War is coming to a shore near you.

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago

We can only hope not and that Russia exhausts itself and realises naked aggression is not a way to a safe and prosperous russia ( or at least the leaders realise it’s not a way that will keep them in power in the long term).

I’m hopeful at some point they will realise they are butting their heads against a brick wall and sod off.

700 Glengarried men
700 Glengarried men
19 days ago

Glad to see the UK provide equipment that Ukraine needs now for its defence. I would like to see Ukraine provided with a decent long-term lend lease, we could offer our soon to be retired typhoon tranche1 fighters, T23 frigates montrose and Monmouth (although it needs an extensive refit).Finally CAMM missile system to protect their cities and military installations.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
19 days ago

Like the T23 idea to Ukraine with a CAMM fit. They might get a few more years out of them.

700 Glengarried men
700 Glengarried men
19 days ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

As it would take a fair bit of time to refit Monmouth and training of Ukraine personnel, this would be for after the current phase of fighting is over, also UK is building P50u boats in Rosyth, think they may want to have a look at their weapon fit

FormerUSAF
FormerUSAF
19 days ago

Actually an inspired idea! HMS Montrose would require relatively minimal refit after return from Gulf, HMS Montrose significantly more (but in wartime, if there is a will, there is a way). Would, of course, require full complement of Harpoons, if not selected for upgrade by RN. Obvious logistical issue covertly inserting into Black Sea, but Turks may be bribeable. Would love to see more of Mad Vlad’s Navy join the Moskva in being “liquidated” (sorry, couldn’t resist). Previously assumed T-23s would be sold to either Chile or Brazil, but really, what is that critical re South America?

700 Glengarried men
700 Glengarried men
19 days ago
Reply to  FormerUSAF

Hi , could outfit them to utilise the Neptune missile that Ukraine produces, might be worth evaluating as a cheaper alternative till the future anti ship missile is ready.

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago

Trouble is the Black Sea is a death trap to navel units, ships survive by being hard to find in a big occean, parked in a pond next to an airforce with with no way out is just a death sentence.

Esteban
Esteban
19 days ago

Can the UK send some of the tranche 1 typhoons that they seem to be in such a hurry to get rid of. They basically can only do air-to-air. Although they can’t use meteor at all. I’m guessing it would still be helpful to the Ukrainians. They are supposed to be retired in a couple years anyway. Also is there any hope for any of the tornadoes that were retired a few years back. At least they have the capability for ground attack.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
19 days ago

I’m a little bit concerned that we’re back broadcasting what we’re sending again. Surely a wee bit of discretion might be advantageous for the current situation in Ukraine? Not sure how good Russia’s satellites and spy ability is but we do seem to give them ready checklists of what’s coming for them to keep a watch out for! Sure, keep the supply lines coming, full and protected and hopefully slowly but surely Ukraine 🇺🇦 can take back its country! No need to tell Russia what we’re doing all the bloody time! Do they tell us everything? No, they don’t give… Read more »

geoff
geoff
19 days ago

Meanwhile, according to today’s Mail Online, the UK is to send “a fleet of submarines to be based in Perth WA to counter the rise of Chinese sea power in the Far East!!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
19 days ago
Reply to  geoff

🙄 I cannot see how they can spare even one.

geoff
geoff
19 days ago

Hi Daniele. I don’t exaggerate about the Mail and blood pressure my friend!
Hope you are well and that the weather in the sunny south east has calmed a little
Cheers
Geoff

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
19 days ago
Reply to  geoff

Morning my friend.
Yes, cooler since Wednesday. Rain now.

Fleets indeed!

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago

I agree, it’s unfortunate but true and it’s not even like we could produce SSNs for Australia. This really needs the US to support and provide.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Our SSN should be no further east than the gulf unless a carrier is over there.

There is no need. If we had 15 then fine.

Even one is a massive hit on availability for the NATO area which must be the priority given our force size.

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago

Agree, North Atlantic, North Sea, Baltic, Norwegian Sea, north east passage, med, gulf and being part of a major deployment ( carrier or amphibious group) is plenty for our 5 SSNs to be doing. The US has plenty of resources cover the rest ( Indian occean and Pacific areas.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

The usual political grandstanding. We don’t need to be facing off vs China no more than Australia is facing Russia.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
19 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

One SSN has to protect the CASW bomber at all times, so we only have 4 to play with.

David
David
19 days ago

Towed guns seem pretty vulnerable , even M777 have been hit. 155 guns have the range to stay behind the lines.
So whilst mobile M109 makes sense, what actual utility do the 105mm guns have?
Are they intended for direct fire modes in built up areas?
The Ukraine would have limited helo lift or amphibious capability which might function as a commando or air assault role in the British forces.
So are they any use? Seems just another burden on the logistics.

Last edited 19 days ago by David
geoff
geoff
19 days ago
Reply to  David

I suppose the logic is that they are better than nothing David! I was also interested to read(in the Mail!!!) that Russia and Ukraine have agreed a process by which Ukraine’s grain can be exported without interference from the Russian side!!?

Jonathan
Jonathan
19 days ago
Reply to  David

It’s very much a war of attrition, russia has lots of these older fires, so Ukraine needs the mass to take attrition as well. This needs to be an eye opener for the west. Attrition and high intensity warfare over long periods of time is still a thing in the modern world and building militaries based on a concept of smashing open the front door and all over in a month may lead to problems in a conflict with china that has mass and is developing technical parity.

ChrisLondon
ChrisLondon
19 days ago
Reply to  David

re Davids comment ‘what actual utility do the 105mm guns have?’ I think the Ukrainian artillery is approx 700 122s, 350 152s, 150 155s and they are running short of ammo for the 122s and 152s hence their far lower firing rate relative to the Russians. The ammo situation is currently more serious than the actual number of guns. Our ability to help with ammo we do not make is limited and their ammo plants are wrecked. We make 105 and 155 ammo and have large stocks so give them all the 105s and 155s we can spare. A 105… Read more »

Ross
Ross
19 days ago

I am genuinely impressed at the level of UK support to Ukraine….and our apparent ability to find war materials when needed (to be quite frank I didn’t think we had most of this stuff available). However….and I have banged on about this before, this massively underlines the lack of munitions and sheer ‘mass’ of our armed forces. We need to seriously deal with this as a matter of urgency. Starting with munitions as an immediate issue.

James
James
19 days ago

Who have we purchased the 50,000 rounds of soviet rounds from to supply to Ukraine?

Simon
Simon
18 days ago
Reply to  James

UK MOD have been looking out for supplier’s for eastern block ear ammo for ages now or the kit to make it

Andrew D
Andrew D
19 days ago

Any news what direction the UK government are looking at for new Artillery system yet guys 🤔

Jacko
Jacko
19 days ago
Airborne
Airborne
18 days ago

Watched forces news (but late) and the Ukrainians are training at RSA on L119s not 118s, and subsequently using the old dial sights and not the APS as is on the in service 118s. My Bro said their the ones being sent, although not all are UK 105mm stock.

Dead1
Dead1
16 days ago

All this piecemeal aid is really just keeping Ukraine in the fight (which I have suspect is the Anglo-American goal all along). Indeed current Ukrainian offensive in Kherson has only seen limited success (though who know, they might break out and kick the Russians across the Dnieper). They clearly lack the capability to launch a meaningful major offensive. To win Ukrainians are going to have to build up much larger reserves and more critically a reasonably large and modern air force with all the trimmings – SEAD, long range stealthy strike (eg AGM-158 launched via F-16 or F/A-18), AEW&C etc… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
15 days ago
Reply to  Dead1

Dare I say you need mass to take on the Russians as well as all the high tech kit, intelligent strategy & tactics, and well trained and motivated personnel.

Denis Kosta
Denis Kosta
15 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

I doubbt those alone will dislodge Russians from the 20% of Ukraine the Russians hold including Crimea.

Maybe over time but that doesn’t help Ukraine as the country is laid to waste.

Also slow pace helps Russians in long run especially as their military is ponderous and slow. It helps in other areas such as western fatigue (already setting in).

A capable air force is the ultimate force multiplier and if used properly can rapidly roll back an enemy.

Dead1
Dead1
15 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Also forgot to mention, as the war goes on the Russians get air superiority by default. The vast bulk of Ukraine’s air defences are Soviet era S300, Buks, Osa’s etc. The more modern Buks and S300s are rare in the former Warpac NATO members. So as the war progresses, Ukraine will run out of these missiles. The promises of IRIS-T and NASAMS are limited in number and also don’t offer as much capability as long range S300. The particular IRIS-Ts the Germans promise aren’t even manufactured at this point So at some point Ukraine’s air defences are degraded through lack… Read more »

Finney
Finney
15 days ago

How is it that can we refurbish Belgian M109’s at the drop of a hat but not get any of our own AS90’s in running order?!?