Scrapping the UK’s nuclear missiles and submarines could be the price Labour could pay for a coalition with the SNP, according to party officials.
The SNP’s Westminster leader Ian Blackford has signalled that getting rid of Trident would be a key issue on the negotiating table. It has been reported that Blackford said his party have been “pretty consistent that they don’t wish to see nuclear weapons”. Blackford also said:
“We want to make sure of course that we take our responsibilities for defence seriously. But we don’t believe that we should be investing in those weapons of mass destruction. These are not the answer for the needs of defence and security for the United Kingdom.”
However, GMB union warned that removing nuclear weapons and nuclear submarines from Faslane were risking the livelihoods of 6,800 service personnel and civilian staff at the site.An estimated 5,000 extra jobs are linked to the base in the supply chain and local economy in Argyll.
GMB’s Scottish secretary Gary Smith said:
“Given the Scottish Government’s record on creating jobs in the sectors that are held up as an alternative to Trident such as so-called green jobs this is nothing short of a campaign for mass unemployment. Where does it stop? We are making tubes for the Trident renewal programme at Rosyth. Is that work and those jobs to go?”
Labour’s shadow defence secretary Nia Griffith has stated that the party was “absolutely committed” to keeping Trident:
“We feel it’s a very important part of our defence, particularly now as we see a resurgent Russia and the US being a bit lukewarm about Nato. It’s very important the UK takes a leading role there.”
How many jobs depend on Faslane?
Faslane is the second largest single-site employer in Scotland, after the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital in Glasgow.
Faslane is one of the Royal Navy’s three main operating bases, alongside HMNB Devonport and HMNB Portsmouth. It is best known as the home of the UK’s four Vanguard-class nuclear-armed submarines which carry Trident II D-5 ballistic missiles.
Figures released by the Ministry of Defence detailed how many civilian jobs at Faslane and Coulport are directly dependent on Trident. Asked for the number of civilians working on the programme, the Ministry of Defence said it was 520.
“There are 520 civilian jobs at HM Naval Base Clyde, including Coulport and Faslane, that directly rely upon the Trident programme.”
It’s important to remember that the 520 jobs mentioned are civilians and strictly those working on Trident missiles.
However, the base does not just support Trident armed submarines. In addition to the nuclear submarines, the base is home to 10 conventional surface vessels of the Sandown class mine countermeasure and Archer class patrol vessel fleets.
Counting people supporting the Trident programme and the four submarines which host the missiles, the number comes to around 6,500 jobs.
The MoD say that around 3,500 of those are uniformed Royal Navy personnel, 1,700 are contractors and 1,600 are other civilian employees.
All 11 Royal Navy submarines will be based on the Clyde at Faslane from 2020, seeing the number of people directly employed at the base rising to 8,200. It is also understood that Scotlands ‘share’ of Trident is around £163 million a year and the annual spend generated by the base in the local area and the wider region is estimated to be more than £270 million per year, this includes spending by the 6,500 personnel based at Faslane in the local economy.
The number of jobs directly and indirectly supported by Faslane is just under 11,000; this comes from the 6,500 military and civilian personnel employed at HMNB Clyde and a further 4,000 created through the supply chain and the local economy according to an EKOS report commissioned by Scottish Enterprise Dunbartonshire.
Dont forget that if that goes so does the warship building in Glasgow
And how many jobs are reliant on that ?
Yep……there are thousands of people who rely on our military projects, our bases and our service personnel for their livelihoods, they would be totally devestated if they all just packed up and came back to England.
Typical short sighted SNP and Labour party……they don’t know their A-hole from their elbow.?????????????????????.
This is talk from the SNP. Scrapping Trident is not Labour party policy, whatever Mr Corbyn’s personal feelings.
Yes there could be some jobs lost, but it’s only the one type of vessel we don’t want or need, and the atomic weapons carried by those vessels.
The rest are perfectly welcome.
If we were independent. It would still a base serving our defence vessels.
The staff employed would still be employed.
This whole article is slanted to make it seem as if the base will become a ghost town. But that is not the truth.
I would much prefer that the unionist lies stop and the truth is told.
Under independence Westminster looses control of all our oil. That puts some £200 billion into Westminster annually.
Without Scotland’s oil. The MOD will not be able to afford Trident anyway.
Not sure the two are directly related, it doesn’t mention independence as such, just that the SNP ‘could’ use leverage to get the ‘nasty nukes’ out of Scotland. They would still be part of the UK.
It would take a while to build somewhere for the contents of Coulport to go for starters….. Its just a scare story based on speculation so I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it just yet.
What about the ongoing development work at Barrow?
Typical left wing thing to say, that. “Ooooh, we don’t want the nuclear deterrent based here, we want to scrap the replacement subs and fight a peer adversary with a plastic sword and colourful language”
The SNP and their pathetic REMOAN alliance are a total disaster for our Armed Forces, they really are.?????????????????????.
‘a total disaster for our Armed Forces’. The armed forces have had dreadful, dangerous cuts over the last 9 years under a tory government. I’m more concerned about what they’ve done than the vapourings of the SNP.
If Trident did go there would be no need for the Sandowns to stay in the North and little need for P 8s to be based up there. The primary role for Sandown and the P8s is to secure the approaches to Faslane for Trident boats when the proceed on patrol.Sandown could go back to Pompie and the P8s to a base somewhere else.
Although the parties involved if Trident would probably move Pompie up there to componsate for the loss in jobs just for the hell of it!!
I agree with you on the minehunters, but there’s no logic to moving the Poseidons. Even if the deterrent was scrapped, the MPAs would still be patrolling the North Sea, Atlantic, and GIUK gap. A base further south doesn’t make sense when their main patrol area is north of us.
The P8s primary role is securing the approaches for Trident subs to leave Faslane without anyone trying to follow them. After that it is GIUK gap work.
basing them a couple of hundred miles south is not going to make a lot of difference for a patrol to the north.
If they are going to play games regarding Trident then kick back hard. Trident goes then so does everything at Faslane, Lossie, Ship building…they will suck back very quickly.
This is a tory scare story. To agree to scrap nuclear weapons/move faslaine JC would have to put it to the members and the members overwhelmingly voted to keep them. The SNP bleat about this constantly to please a section of their members but they would never do it because of the jobs it would cost them. I guess the more politically naive would gulp this guff down.
Youre forgetting how remarkably ignorant the SNP party up here are when it comes to anything related to defence and military in general!
lets just leave it as the “SNP are remarkably ignorant” 🙂 they go on about defence to please a section of their voters but if moving UK defence work out of Scotland was actually put on the table they would soon change their tune.
“but if moving UK defence work out of Scotland was actually put on the table they would soon change their tune.”
Really ? You don’t think it would play into their hands ? All roads lead to independence and they would throw anyone under the bus to get it. “The evil English took the jobs away, even though they said they wouldn’t, vote for us, under the SNP you can get whatever you want…..”
You can promise the world to get what you want, once you’ve got your way you can make excuses, its politics 101.
Agree that the traditional Labour party would not cancel subs or Trident as they instituted them in the 60s to a significant extent, being no fans of Marxism. But neither is it a Tory scare story, as its genesys is the SNP and the above quotes Blackford – unless you are suggesting that he’s somehow being defamed – ? Who are these amorphous ‘politically naive’ to whom you refer in any case – accepted they cannot possibly include you.
The Labour party actually founded the nuclear deterrent and were, as the government, founder members of NATO, so their commitment is a lot older than the 60’s.
One only has to look at the way some towns in Germany saw a drop in local spending when the Army and air Force returned back to the UK. Whilst some of the larger cities weathered the withdrawal with limited impact, so of the smaller towns so a large reduction in all areas of the economy. Local banks, shops, restaurants etc all saw a drop of in footfall. Even in towns where the soldiers and families were replaced by people coming over from the East etc, these new residents tended to be unemployed or earning minimum wages, so had less income to spend in the local economy.
Still if that is what the SNP want, then I would welcome the return of the Navy back down south. Perhaps we could re-open Chatham.
You can hardly compare the post war occupational force in Germany with a nuclear facility in Scotland. I am sure too that your average German would have felt well rid of foreign armies on their land in the same way most Scots not brainwashed and threatened by our Westminster masters would feel too.
Get rid NOW!
I do not take anything the SNP say seriously, or Labour for that matter, as far as Defence is concerned. So this story is old news to me.
But I love that photo!
I know this will upset the scot who are not fighting for another referendum,but in the last referendum i wanted to see scotland remain in the uk, but now I’m so sick of the constant anti english crap from the snp, as far as im concerned the sooner scotland leaves the uk the better,because its going to happen sooner or later anyway,so bring all the mod bases and ship building contracts and all the jobs that go with them, back to england,lets be honest the scots only represent 5 per cent of out population anyway, so will we be worse off without them,no,and best of all we will no longer have to listen to nicola sturgeon
We are actually about 8,2% of the UK population (32% of land mass, 61% of UK waters to shelf limits).
I did mean to put 8pc not 5, but either way sturgeon will not rest until she pulls scotland out of the uk,whether that will be a good or a bad think for scotland remains to be seen,whether the RN remains at faslane will depend on the attitude of the snp, if they stick their current policy, they will remove nuclear weapons from scotland,and if that means the RN is forced to leave faslane i think you will see the the mod pull out of its other Scottish sites such as lossimouth,
I’m always astonished that the SNP has been able to keep the constant drum beat of
Scottish independance on the road..
Their record of running the show in Scotland is certainly not covered in glory!
As things stand, the average person in Scotland gets more spent on them than in England.
An independent Scotland would have a small GDP to cover all the things a government has to do.
Public spending will have to drop, tax and borrowing will have to go up substantially, just to try and balance the books.
The only real option is to join the EU and dip into the pot. At least they will have the euro to fall back on!
I would hope most Scottish people would have better sense than to leave the Union, to join an Empire.
Still, it’s their decision to make.
There’s no guarantee what so ever the EU will take them on.
I don’t think Scotland can afford to go it alone, as you’ve said.
Stevo listen up bro the snp is NOT Scotland they do not speak for everyone in Scotland and the majority of Scots in case you hadn’t checked voted to remain in the U.K. Its never going to happen Scotland is and always will be part of this greatest of all unions so put the meth pipe down man. The snp are just a silly wee political party not anymore looney tune than your English Green Party fanatics or that Marxist English comrade Corbyn so don’t think somehow it’s all one way lunacy cos it ain’t so it’s a 2 way street . We get sick of all the Westminster BS up here as well you know .
More power to you mate.
Long live the union, regards to my British Scots Brothers and Sisters.
Cheers amigo ,300 plus years of the greatest political and economic union in the history of the planet FACT. Proud Scotsman and proud to be British a pity not everyone in here is the same. ?????????
Simple issue is that vote Labour and you end Trident…non sense what their spokesman says…Labour is for unilateral disarmament.
About as simple as confusing a “spokesman” for the shadow defence secretary
Trident has already passed parliament and is happening, Labour is for backing Trident, the only way it’s getting stopped is if the Green Party pull off a spectacular majority win on December 12th
Very naive statement. Corbyn is a member of CND and you think he won’t push through getting rid of trident….
Naive?
Can you explain how he would get rid of it then? Let’s say labour get a majority, and given the parliamentary arithmetic of over three quarters of labour MP’s support trident, and also trident being voted in favour of by the membership, and it being in the last manifesto and will be in this manifesto, when and how would this happen?
He is a member of CND and after 4 years as leader the membership and plp still support trident, and it’s currently official party policy to have trident
So how does he do it? Is it a bloodless coup turning himself into a dictator or will he personally go to Barrow and order everyone to put down their spanners?
Labour party policy is to maintain Trident – it should be as Labour created the British nuclear programme. What Corbyn wants and what he gets are different things.
IOr gradually get MPs deselected who don’t support his views. Other alternatives are overspend forcing MPs who back Trident into corner, its either cuts to the NHS or Trident you choose? As Jeremy has to give the order to use it may as well be scrapped as its no longer a deterrent. We can spend the money on a few reams of paper for those strongly worded letters.
If his letter of last resort says don’t use it it would probably be ignored by the Captain & XO. As JC hasn’t got direct control of the system (no PAL system) there’d still be doubt and uncertainty in any potential aggressors mind. Not ideal of course, In any case, if he doesn’t become PM in December he’ll be gone. If he does it’s doubtful he’d be able to get official Labour policy changed anyway.
I live in Helensbugh, the main town at the mouth of the Gareloch and regularly see the boats leaving or arriving I have relatives who are employed there as are several residents of my street. If the subs left , there would no need to keep Faslane open , it is on the wrong coast for surface vessels. This would cause economic devastation to the local area ,I am old enough to remember what happened to Dunoon when the Americans left Holy Loch in my opinion it’s still not recovered economically, or socially . I wish the Mod would show the scale of All persons employed and of tax paid to the Scottish Govt, supporting public services . Hate to see this getting turned into a Scots v English thing
700 Glengarried Men
Trouble is that is the strategy of the SNP Turning this into an us and them thing
Thing is it seems to be working with the comments on here
I am English and live in Wales and believe me they hate the English but only when they play us in rugby lol
There will be die hard haters as there are in all walks of life (you could say thats life lol)
I think the same applies in Scotland
The SNP are always saying we dont think of them and we are dragging them out of the EU Well in that context Scotland is trying to keep England and Wales in the EU and at the moment they along with others are doing a great job in doing that
When out lets see if the people want independence then
Crazy how some people think getting rid of their nuclear weapons will make them safer. That genie left the bottle many, many decades ago and can NEVER be put back.
It would make them safer, if all countries did it.
But it always has to be the western democracies first, strangely….
Unilateral Disarmament does not work. It is like unlocking all your doors and windows in a street full of thieves.
I agree, if all did it. Unilateralism, ‘to set an example’, is not the way to do it. Funny thing is, that Reagan hated the things and truly wanted to see multilateral disarmament.
Relocate the base and jobs to England. Kick Scotland out and save on the rest of the UK’s tax subsidies to them. Job done and everyone outside of Scotland is a winner ?
To add to that… Move the rest of our military assets to England as well and we’ll have the support jobs and business for them too ?
Ha ha spot the Russian troll
Mark i just completely agree with you and as i said in my first post, the sooner this happens the better as far as i’m concerned
You are a disgrace
I happen to like Scots and Scotland being part of the UK. Annoying though the SNP is, they aren’t all of Scotland.
It’s dickheads like you that give the snp credibility
Ya know, it’s sometimes difficult to know who is replying to who….
There are a TON of successful modern countries without nukes, get them tae fuck and let oil exploration begin instead, they already know there is oil there we cant access due to the sub routes and we will get more jobs from that than we will ever have from Trident.
Well we all know Where GMBs loyalties lie and its NOT Scotland!
It’s a great idea to get rid of the subs. nuclear weapons and of course the Navy. There is no longer any threat in the world and the Russians are our friends, right? We should scrap the air force and army too. Solved. Think of all the savings!