The Minister of State For Defence Procurement, Alec Shelbrooke, has updated Parliament on the troubled Ajax armoured vehicle.
“I wish to provide an update on the AJAX equipment project that is part of the Armoured Cavalry Programme.
My first concern is the safety of our personnel, which has been at the forefront of the work that has been ongoing over the summer. I am pleased to be able to inform the House that, following agreement from the AJAX Safety Panel, this work has led to resuming the User Validation Trials paused earlier this year and since Monday 10th October there have been eight days of trials.
Successful completion of User Validation Trials will allow progression toward Reliability Growth Trials. I will continue to ensure that the House is kept updated on these matters.”
The statement makes no mention of whether or not the well-publicised underlying issues that had previously caused the trials to stop have been resolved. Nor does it mention when Initial Operating Capability might now be expected.
Fingers crossed they have sorted out the vibration issues….I doubt it though.
More chance of having a Prime Minister with the full support of the Tory Party 😃
To be fair I don’t think any PM has ever had the full support of either their MPs or their party. Everyone is an individual with no two people sharing the same views. When Churchill came to power in 1940 I am not sure he had any support from anyone he was just the right man to do a dirty but necessary job.😀Sucess will come to the next leader who can grasp the nettle of Health, Defence & Clean Energy Generation. If they can do that the economy will look after itself.
Why?
Cos I dont trust the MOD when it comes to these things. Hope I am wrong though.
Fair enough!
👍
Agreed I think they are just pushing ahead regardless because the cannot admit they have backed a flawed platform…
I really hope not. That’s the worst case scenario.
The MOD are more often than not, the archetypical “flawed platform” when it comes to procurement. Regularly defaulting to the worst case scenario.
George, believe it or not, more often than not the MoD gets it right on procurement. It is just the howlers that make it into the Press.
The problem is known about and flagged up so there is no way it is going to be used unfixed. That doesn’t mean they might not end up contributing towards the fix or writing off the project cost.
It is not uncommon for there to be flawed plans in Government. It is therefore easy to admit the mistake of a bunch of nameless people long since retired.
I would guess GD and MoD have changed the test to pass the vehicle rather than change the vehicle to pass the test…
Proof?
Give it to the Germans ,too fix like the trouble we had with the SA 80 mk1
Partly correct as at the time HK was a subsidiary of a British company having been bailed out from going bankrupt.
Same with British car manufacturers
Apparently the wrong lubricant oil was being used this caused the weapons to jam
Wrong quality plastic, wrong magazine catch spring, poor quality magazine, wrong quality firing pins , wrong quality cocking handle /bolt etc lol
Over at his blogsite ,Tanknology’, Jon Hawkes has a great primer on Composite Rubber Tracks. Among much interesting data is graphics of the results of trials carried out on Warrior. This shows that one of several improvements over conventional steel tracks or lightweight tracks, is the substantial reduction in vibration acheived with CRT. IMO Ajax should’ve started off with CRT but even at this stage it seems an obvious route to go down.
No NVH analysis at design stage? So fundamental.Where was engineering leadership.
These problems are the ‘elephant in the room’ which were not tackled, just ignored and put into the ‘it will be alright at the end of the day’ file
Did the MOD not put a NVH needs in their specification of requirements? Did the contractor appreciate this and not discuss it with the customer?
Oh it is indefensible that so much money has been wasted. Someone was asleep at the wheel.
Blah, blah, blah, bloody blah.😎
Such a brief update. Perhaps IanM can give us some details.
Hi all,
As the Minister states, the UVT are underway for the AJAX variant, having already completed the UVT for ARES. On completion of the UVT serials (BFM’s really) that will allow the rest of the green machine to climb on and get stuck into RGT which has been paused. My sources tell me that initial results are very encouraging for all concerned. Once the Safety Notice is lifted, which my insider is confident will happen, then the HCR and other training units will get stuck in.
cheers
Good news if true. As an observation these vehicles remind me of those utilitity trucks in areas of imminent threat with the population trying to escape, every inch covered with every possession they can tie onto it. It’s like every area of Ajax sports some extra structure bolted on front sides and back. Just needs a kitchen sink now. You can see how the problems started and where the extra weight comes from, certainly can’t have helped the basic balance of the thing when manovering.
I agree, most of what is “bolted on” is either stowage or external sensors or antennae.
Cheers
Its got a boiling vessel which is as close to a kitchen sink as you will get….
Really wonder whether you shouldn’t be appointed spokesman for HMG re AJAX. Clearer, more concise, and certainly more reassuring info than professional flacks.
I try my best within Syops and other stuff to present facts not opinion.
Cheers
😎Hope so
Any clues on whether they have actually fixed the problem or if the solution talked about last year oof using better ear protection is the way they went?
Fingers crossed they fixed the problems not found a solution to make the problems bearable.
Can picture it now. Private why are you ignoring me and what is that in your ears.
Sorry sir I lost my ear muffs when we were out and had to ride back with 2 tampons stuck in my ears. They swelled up so much from my bleeding ears from the noise and I haven’t been to the nurse yet.
😍 Nice one Ian. Keeping faith here. 🤞
Any footage around of Ajax variant at ATDU?
Found some.
Really appreciated
Thanks mate. So ARES passed the UVT with flying colours? No provisos?
Thanks Ian, that bit about Ares I’d not heard before- and to me is pretty important (please correct my understanding if it’s off): If Ares is as close to the “base” model, APC without turret and extra gubbins, and it has not had these same issues then it means that the underlying structure is broadly sound. The problem only comes when you add big heavy spinning things to it- which is definitely an issue, but not as fundamental.
Hope I’m right, your very helpful post has changed my perspective of the whole programme somewhat!
This thing is as boring as British politics.
Wow, the update is there’s no worthwhile update. Just about sums these people up.
Funny isn’t it Ian m is asked for some info gives it and still people either don’t read the post or just thing it’s great going off on one🙄
I will defend them a bit I think they are referring to the official statement rather than Ian’s far more enlightening effort. Ironically the official one is far shorter than the Daily Mail articles referencing its imminence and going through every nut and bolt of the platform.
It’s a reasonable presumption, is it not, that if we are “resuming the User Validation Trials paused earlier this year” the MOD’s design team must be satisfied the process can now continue towards some sort of acceptance milestone, right?
I think there is hope, but the lack of commitment in the official version more a notification of events, shows they are by no means sure the problems are resolved and indeed the testing is, one presumes there to determine amongst other things that in realistic conditions they have been greatly resolved. Still worries me mind that they will need a fair level of leeway to those unacceptable levels because in service things inevitably wear and vibrations and noise will likely increase. I do think this is at least a bright spot on that journey to the starting line mind… Read more »
Forget the noise and vibration issues, those are important but what about the fact that supposedly it still can’t reverse over a 30cm obstacle, and that there are issues with some electronics if I recall correctly. Thats gonna be another major concern.
Hi Mr Quill, an AJAX can happily reverse over a 75cm as per MOD requirements. As for issues with electronics, well, they are produced to rigorous NATO standards by mainly British engineering firms.
Cheers
I read that as 75mm initially 😆
The devil is in the detail🤣
👍
So the User validation trials have started again, which suggests that GD has provided solutions to the problems.
whether they are adequate solutions to the problems remains -of course- to be seen.
Also will the fix work long term? If it’s dampeners they may wear out or as with all things once they are thrashed about a bit they get a worn and noisy.
12 years and still not started RGT. Whoever signed off on GD and not BAE needs sectioning!
And here we are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPgK2i-qBOc
Sounds smooth?!
What a bloody racket…got me up…but seems to be okay going forward in a straight line… Hope the engine is powerful enough to carry around all its weight and give it a decent range. 😆
805bhp MTU V8 turbo diesel, plenty.
Diesel …boooooo it shoud be wind powered…each should have a big windmill on the top …camouflaged obviously ..maybe with a palm tree for desert ops . pine for ukraine and a beech for the ardennes..just in case…..
You’ve seen the plans for the Labour/Greens MkII version!🤔
Didn’t sound over-noisy to me. That’s on a concrete track at speed too.
You’d have a better chance sneaking up on the enemy with a creeping artillery barrage than performing reconnaissance with that.
Well yes, but you’d be even more covert on foot in an OP, but there are differing ways and assets for recc that complement each other, so I don’t necessarily follow that logic or knock Ajax for that.
I believe the US cav also have Tanks in their recc units?
Ajax, they’re not using MK 1 eyeball and sneaking about in a Scimitar, but whatever ISTAR suite the vehicle has, which is considerable apparently?
I can’t help thinking that a vehicle more similar to the Fennek would have been more suitable for the recon role though.
Fennek lacks tracks, a cannon and has little more armour protection than Scimitar. It is a light recce vehicle not a medium weight recce vehicle.
It’s at speed (40mph) on concrete, fuck all is quiet in that track!
No one conducts recce at 40mph on concrete!
Jeez!
Yep they are going to occupy Recce positions at full speed aren’t they?🙄 Any AFV rattles and shakes on solid concrete put it on a field and there is a massive difference!
I’ll make sure any facetious comments I make in the future are marked appropriately.
👍😁
You don’t sneak up on an enemy to observe stealthily by driving at full speed on a concrete road.
Sgt Bilko could have done a better job.
..possibly but the Movie starring Steve Martin, was one of the worst ever made!!
Yeah what a Jerk
Yep akin to his Pink Panther remake …absolutely useless! The bloke is a two bit comedian (and thats 1 bit more than I’d pay to watch him)
I only saw the Steve Martin one when I was a kid. I only mentioned it because of the hover tank falling apart scene.
Great if the problems are getting sorted out but do feel uneasy about Ajax.
why don’t they try solid rubber tracks?
This is a milkcow of a project, that is making some people very rich. Should be shameful, but nobody cares as long as they keep making the money.
GDUK is not making much money from this project, so far. Check out their accounts filed at Companies House.
If you have to pay the US division , Santa Barbra systems for licencing , logo use etc , consultants etc you can export profit to parent company .
What a pathetic statement! Spineless just like this government.
It’s an update to parliament. Short and sweet. Don’t over communicate and say as little as possible so it can’t be used against you in the future if things go belly up. It isn’t a press release
Morning Chasp!
Compare South Africa’s experience with the Hoefyster vs the Ajax fiasco- http://www.defenceweb.co.za . Initiated over 15 years ago as a replacement for the Ratel the SANDF has not received a single unit. Corruption and incompetence at the heart of this saga with Billions of Rands spent to date and nothing to show for it! Cancellation looming!
Why is it so ugly?
Because it kills people and doesn’t need to be pretty. Really though, it’s design for function over form.
Cheers
You can’t say things like it KILLS people that is disgraceful 😂
It doesn’t kill, it kinetically neutralises.
OT a bit….not unexpected but a good reason why Ajax has to work. Looks like we won’t be able to afford anything else.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-rise-in-defence-spending-as-jeremy-hunt-tightens-belt-ttsgtvds0
Just a con trick to commit to it later, when if the Tories are still in power it can be scaled back at will. Just like all the vows to increase the surface fleet, which take place in a future parliament rather than placing orders now, but a good news story anyway. Spin. Nothing new, so given Hunts previous calls to increase defence I hope it still rises to some degree. There is also a current uplift in spending til 2024 previously agreed so I’m interested if that is affected. If, so, I hope Wallace and all 3 Chiefs of… Read more »
Morning Daniele, All western nations are struggling to deal with the economic effects of covid and Ukraine. Brexit has compounded these effects for the UK; it was anticipated that there would be a short term hit but its come at a bad time. The current fiasco is down to the conservative party fair and square. Their system of electing a leader is manifestly dysfunctional. It is not working for them or for the country. If we are cutting or postponing spend it is down to Wallace and the Chiefs of Staff to make sure they clearly identify those items which… Read more »
This Ajax fiasco all started over wrong size Cup Holders for Driver and crew can’t have spilt drinks awash and it’s just escalated could have all been sorted if Lids had been issued for their Cups well that’s what I heard in the Naafi queue Daniele
Maybe the holders were specc’d for tea cups and someone decided he wanted to fit his coffee cup in one…serves him right if he got coffee in his lap -We are British after all
👍🍵🍵
Same people who knocked the F35. I would rather test and find faults before really action Russia could lean a few things about testing before entry.
It looks like something Lego designed and the kept adding on extra blocks.
Why did this vehicle even get this far and funded by the taxpayer?
Like most military contracts there seems to be no cause that stops payment until the issues are resolved…
Millions are lost in defence spending through most projects. Its nearly always ex senior service personnel who are paid by the contractors to push their recommendations!
Again the poor guys and girls at the bottom are the ones who suffer through bad project management by the MOD and their cronies!!
The NSO needs to be more involved in the procurement of new projects!
I don’t think GD has received a payment for well over a year now.
GD has not received a payment for well over a year.
NSO?
I dispute that most projects incur losses in the millions, most procurement projects are successful. Its only the few howlers that make it to the newspapers.
The problem is that the one that do fail often make to the newspaper and it isnt helpful in trying to secure extra funding for the defence budget. Hopefully Ajax is on the right road to iron out the problems
Get rid of this rubbish, enough tax payers money has been spent time to look for something else. No
more discussion needed!
SME with links to those testing the vehicle says otherwise, which is enough for me.
What is your primary source for its rubbishness?
👍
It’s glaringly obvious that, because of the time, and money spent on “this heap” it will be made to pass, and then be pushed into service because as a nation we are “broke”.
All complaints after inception will be ignored, and “talked down”, until we can afford much better.
All those wh9 suffer damage of a physical nature ignored until they are down to a manageable number, only then will the situation be acknowledged, and payments made.
Standard practice for this countries regard for service personnel.
Are there many examples of vehicles etc being pressed into service at the detriment of our servicemen/women then?
Sometimes the best option is to just cut your losses / wasted time and buy something else…
…on the other hand…” but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope”
Romans 5. 🙂
But IanM says it has been fixed and those fixes are now being tested.
I did
Good idea then we can waste god knows how many years on the selection process for ‘something else’ then wait for years to actually get it into service because we will be at the back of any build queue! Granted this has taken far to long BUT hopefully there might be light at the end of the tunnel .
If they had actually dealt with the underlying issues, they’d have definitely led with that in the statement. They’ve found a workaround to keep things rolling.
The question will be whether they decide that they can live operationally with this workaround, or if they do still get to the underlying issues prior to final sign off.
MoD is currently ascertaining whether GDUK has dealt with the underlying issues in the UVTs – we await an answer.
I’m a born optimist, so willing to be hopeful for now!
We need to cut our losses and dump the Ajax System. It is too big and too heavy to be a versatile air transportable piece of kit. The MoD needs to look at vehicles that are available on the current market and buy something that works !