The U.S. State Department has cleared the sale of 105 F-35 jets to Japan. The authorisation is for 63 F-35As and 42 F-35Bs.
The package is worth an estimated cost of $23.11 billion and includes 110 F135 engines along with aircraft ferry and tanker support.
It was reported back in December 2018 that Japan’s newly revised National Defense Program Guidelines and new Mid-Term Defense Program had mentioned the purchase of these fighters to add to the existing order of 42 F-35As.
In 2018, Japan also announced that it was intending on converting one of its helicopter carriers to carry F-35B jets.
The purchase authorisation is displayed below.
“The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Japan of one hundred five (105) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft and related equipment for an estimated cost of $23.11 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.
The Government of Japan has requested to buy sixty-three (63) F-35A Conventional TakeOff and Landing (CTOL) aircraft, forty-two (42) F-35B Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) aircraft, and one hundred ten (110) Pratt and Whitney F135 engines (includes 5 spares). Also included are Electronic Warfare Systems; Command, Control, Communications, Computers and Intelligence/Communications, Navigation and Identification; Autonomic Logistics Global Support System, Autonomic Logistics Information System; Flight Mission Trainer; Weapons Employment Capability, and other Subsystems, Features, and Capabilities; F-35 unique infrared flares; reprogramming center access and F-35 Performance Based Logistics; software development/integration; flight test instrumentation; aircraft ferry and tanker support; spare and repair parts; support equipment, tools and test equipment; technical data and publications; personnel training and training equipment; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, technical, and logistics support services; and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated total cost is $23.11 billion.
This proposed sale will support the foreign policy goals and national security objectives of the United States by improving the security of a major ally that is a force for political stability and economic progress in the Asia-Pacific region. It is vital to U.S. national interest to assist Japan in developing and maintaining a strong and effective self-defense capability. The proposed sale of aircraft and support will augment Japan’s operational aircraft inventory and enhance its air-to-air and air-to-ground self-defense capability. The Japan Air Self-Defense Force’s F-4 aircraft are being decommissioned as F-35s are added to the inventory. Japan will have no difficulty absorbing these aircraft into its armed forces.
The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not alter the basic military balance in the region. The prime contractors will be Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company, Fort Worth, Texas; and Pratt and Whitney Military Engines, East Hartford, Connecticut. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Japan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical reviews/support, programs management, and training over a period of 25 years. U.S. contractor representatives will be required in Japan to conduct Contractor Engineering Technical Services (CETS) and Autonomic Logistics and Global Support (ALGS) for after-aircraft delivery.”
This notice of a potential sale is required by law and does not mean the sale has been concluded, say the U.S. State Department.
It is interesting to note the difference between headline bare bones price & the fully equipped, suited & booted, spares & ground equipment price. A bare F-35A has a headline price around $85 million, but fully equipped on this deal, it comes in at $219 million each.
The V-22 has a bare bones price of around $70 million, but looking at the Indonesian deal, a fully equipped price of $250 million. Something to think of when playing fantasy fleets.
Relevant for Tempest fantasies too.
Perhaps so but I’m not sure in the way you meant? The RAF will probably need to decide if its wants F35A for the long haul, or whatever results from Tempest, which is likely to be a superset of F35A capabilities.
Having both isn’t likely to be a good option because it would almost certainly cut the number of Tempest aircraft and undermine the program, driving up costs when there is a major focus in the program to reduce them, in order to enable greater RAF aircraft numbers.
If the RAF sticks with F35B in the interim and then migrates the F35B capability to the FAA as Tempest ramps, the UK will have just two aircraft types, helping to reduce operating costs while using aircraft and systems optimised for their roles. Also ensuring a sovereign capability to equip the carriers with greater numbers of aircraft if necessary at any point.
Its actually a mix of F35A and F35B, but your point still stands that aircraft cost is much more than the headline number. The V-22 price point was particularly interesting in the context of frequent cries to just buy V-22 for CSG AEW and COD. We’d probably need at least eight to support those two roles, so a cool $2B before we even factor in the cost of developing an AEW solution for the V-22.
Yes – quite right – lests not buy anything, that WILL save money…
The fact is that there has always been a big cost difference between the basics and an operational platform. This is nothing new. Every time we buy a new platform you have to spend money…. this is the case with our F-35 buy.
The point is sometimes you have to spend to obtain a credible capability. We currently have no credible capability for our carriers no COG and Crowsnest is a joke.
It is interesting to not that US V-22 are set to support QE on her maiden voyage and have already deck qualified for tge carrier.
A V-22 buy or even lease would add much needed capability to the UK strike group.
Why is Crowsnest a joke? And how does V-22 save money, presuming you were referring to that? I wasn’t questioning our F-35B buy.
Do you have a link confirming V-22 QEC deployment? And on COD, why is V-22 a much needed capability for the UK to organically support vs making do with Merlin, port stops, or requesting support from the US in extremis? French took advantage of US COD capability during Libya.
OK Crowsnest is a joke because its radar the Searchwater dates back to Nimrod MK2 in the 70’s. The AEW one dates back to 1982. The one Crowsnest is getting is not much more advanced then the 1980’s one in terms of radar technology. It is not a modern ESA radar and is based on old technology. The carrier life span is 50 years thats how long the AEW solution has to last. You are asking a 197o’s radar to detect hypersonic Manouvering stealth targets into the 2070’s – not a chance. Then there is the platform. The Merlin is a good chopper but it has a significantly lower service altitude the a fixed wing platform such as the US Hawkeye. A hight altitude gives a longer range radar reach. A longer range radar gives more warning of an attack. This is vital when trying to counter stealthy or hypersonic threats. V-22 is the nearest we can get to a fixed wig AEW that will work with our carrier that has no arrestor gear and catapults.
I never said the V-22 would save money. It will cost extra to buy and run. However given the above on Crowsnest it would provide us with a credible AEW platform and tgat translates into a credible carrier capability.
Sorry do not remember were I read about V-22 being used for QE deployment, however .i did see it. As V-22 is used by the USMC who will be deploying with QE I would be very surprised if a number did not service the carrier or were even on the ship. The V-22 has been cleared for flight oos already off QE.
I am not saying that you could not use Merlin as a COD but V-22 would be far superior in the role. It can fly faster, go further with heavier loads. No just heavier loads but bigger ones too.
Also as Merlin will be going out of service before we need a bew carrier we will have to introduce a new vertical lift platform into service anyway, we might as well buy some V-22s.
Hope this helps.
Hi,
The link to the USMC v-22 and QE was…
https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/counting-down-to-uk-carrier-strike-group-2021-deployment/
It is from Save the RN. It says that V-22 is likely to work with QE on her deployment to support the embarked USMC. In effect a COG role.
Well what it actually says is “USMC V-22 Ospreys will not be permanently embarked on the carrier but, together with CH-53E Stallions, may be used to provide Maritime Intra-Theatre Lift to the carrier group as it moves around the world, supported by the global US military logistic support footprint.” And indeed those assets MAY be used (STRN speculation), but not as organic platforms.
Yes I agree and that’s what I said.
I never said they WOULD be based on QE only that it is likely they would support her.
Sure Crowsnest is using an older radar technology. It doesn’t mean, along with the Cerberus mission system, it is incapable of doing a good job. It’s been continuously upgraded since the 1980’s, so characterizing it as 1980’s technology is a bit disingenuous. It will also be operated alongside F35B while flying CAP using their radar and thermal sensors. Hypersonics will have a pretty large thermal signature. As a practical matter of assessing acceptable risk in the current political climate, since context is all important, consider that USN LHA assault ships such as USS America have no AEW whatsoever today, unless operating with a CSG and sail in the SCS without organic AEW.
Who says Crowsnest will be operated into the 2070’s or even close to that? It’s more likely to be an interim solution into the 2030’s and then replaced using a more capable platform as Merlin heads towards OSD in 2040, after a probable 10 year LEP from 2030. Typhoon is still currently flying without AESA too, doesn’t mean Captor-M is crap, or that it won’t get replaced with Captor-E. Likewise Artisan. In addition, the USMC are keen to get an organic AEW capability for their amphibious vessels in their MUX program, so the UK might piggy back off that development, if it proceeds, rather than have to fund all the RDT&E itself. Lots of potential future options in terms of platforms that might be used for a better AEW solution including UAV, but which aren’t ready yet. Leonardo might even see an opportunity to expand their market leading surveillance radar business adding long range AEW products, leveraging AESA technology from Seaspray, Osprey and/or Captor-E programs.
Merlin supports a radar range of up to 150nmi (280km) to the radar horizon, add that to the range the helicopter is operating from the carrier. State of the art AEW platform? No, but not irrelevant or useless.
Regarding “… we might as well buy some V-22s”. That’s a hell of a gold plated solution just for COD. No one questions its better, only that its extraordinarily expensive for what it is when MoD budgets are already very tight.
I am glad you agree that Crowsnest can only ever be an interim solution – the quicker we are done with it the better.
On the constantly upgraded bit, it has got a new front end but the basic radar IS 1980ls technology. You spend some time telling me ii can get the job done and then say the F-35’s will help it out – they will need too! I think the fact that the fighters crowsnest it supposed to control are more capable at AEW then the AEW solution – says it all. I rest my case.
On radar range Searchwater would not get 150 plus mile range detection against small stealthy targets. As you know detection range reduces with the effective radar return the target generates. A small and or stealthy target would be detected not at Searcheater’s maximum range but much later. You can effectively halve the radar range for a modern threat. You have talked of thermal detection, well Crowsnest does not have such capabilities.
In the 1989’s and against that ages threat set Searchwater was fine. If the fleet is attacked by older 4 generation aircraft and slower unstealthy SSM it can do the Job as you say. However, my concern is that we are no longer fighting the Falklands conflict and times have moved on – Seachwater has not. It is not ‘up to the job’ against 5 generation fighters and stealthy SSM/ASM.
As you say there may be hope as the USMC needs AEW and Japan are now operating light carriers. With any luck a new AEW solution will emerge we can buy into – the sooner the better. You are right that the USMC do not have organic AEW, this is because they do no need it. Any USMC operation would be covered by a US carrier with AEW (currently Hawkeye).
What we have now is a carrier AEW capability gap and that will only grow as Crowsnest shows its age.
Rob
P.S. I never suggested we buy V-22 just as a COG. I suggested we bought it primarily for AEW. However a few could be used in the COG role. One of the options for Crowsnest was a pod mounted modified F-35 radar. V-22 could be used like Merlin with kits that could be installed as required. This would leave scope for un-podded V-22s to be used in tge COG role.
Hmmm, you seemed to be assuming Crowsnest was going to serve into the 2070’s so I don’t think I was agreeing with your perspective when I suggested it was an interim solution.
I included F35 because AEW isn’t just about Crowsnest or E-2D alone. F35 will augment E-2D too, its one of the strengths of the F35 platform and 5th gen warfighting. One area where I think the RN’s budget will be better spent is in implementing CEC, as the US have done and the French are doing, to more efficiently network all sensor platforms. Perhaps later in the 2020’s as T26 comes into service. F35 is unlikely to be the only additional AEW asset that may be used. Depending on situation/location we might also be using allied land based AEW aircraft and/or the UK’s Wedgetails. In the same way that P-8’s might augment Merlin ASW/ASuW
When I referred to Merlin’s supported radar range that is what I meant, not Crowsnest range, i.e. the radar range consistent with operating altitude of Merlin. As you point out its not a practical limit, something you had earlier suggested to be the case. The thermal detection was referencing F35.
“Seachwater … is not ‘up to the job’ against 5 generation fighters and stealthy SSM/ASM”, and you know this how? Its logical to assume it will fall well short of E-2D performance but we don’t know where its performance lies. Again, since AEW will be delivered using a combination of platforms we have a number of capabilities available. There is also a slow 5th gen ramp by China and especially Russia that currently mitigates that threat. SSM/ASM have to come from somewhere and have to be targeted, if adversary air and sea platforms are held at distance then they cannot target and may instead be the targets.
“Any USMC operation would be covered by a US carrier with AEW” Nope, that’s not guaranteed which is precisely why USMC wants organic AEW.
Agreed that in practice all sensors will be used to protect the fleet. That goes without saying. Yes the first line of defence for any carrier group is the ability to hide from its potential attackers.
However I am still not convinced that Searchwater is the right choice for the RN. We could have done so much better. The proposed modified F-35 radar in a pod for Crowsnest would have been a better choice. It is a modern AESA radar with great detection capabilities. Its only major drawback is its limited feildo of regard. However if you were to spin the array you would have a modern AEW solution. But this option was rejected as too expensive…
As regards Searchwater’s capabilities, they are classified. So I do not know and would not say if I did. However the open source description of the radar paints a picture of fairly simple PD set. Not being an active phased array it would be limited to one or two modes at a time (i.e. look-up, look-down, surface search etc). It also does not have electronic beam forming like a modern set. This makes it more vulnerable to jamming and clutter. No doubt much work has been done on the processing of the radar data. This would make it vastly superior to the 1982 set. However, at the end of the day it is not a true multifunction radar and it is limited by it’s small radar dish and the power of a small air radar set.
So I think Searchwater has limitations that would hamper it in detecting difficult targets. Hence I am not convinced it has what it takes against 5 gen, stealthy ASM etc. It might have the detection abilities of a latter day God for all I know, but I doubt it.
You are right Russia/China have modest 5 gen fighter fleets currently. But China in particular will strive to build up her fleet quickly. Both Russia and China have some pretty capable supersonic/hypersonic ASMs, so I do not think we can take AEW for granted.
Soon there will be 500 F-35s containing China within the island chains.
This is good news. A strong navy for japan will be an added counter to China’s expansionism. I would like to see Japan and Australia get bigger carriers, not just converted helicopter carriers.
I wonder what Japan will do for carrier AEW? With any luck they will go for a radar project involving V-22 we can join in with.
Initially the JMSDF will probably operate under the umbrella of their existing E3C/D fleet which can pretty much cover Japanese islands home waters and EEZ. If they choose to deploy their jump carrier when completed and equipped with F35s and CV22s I would not be surprised if they don’t stick an AEW package on the V22. They certainly have the ability to do so.
As for a full sized carrier, it’s coming. I expect an announcement of such before the end of the decade. Probably look something like this:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fjsw.newpacificinstitute.org%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F05%2Fjapanese-f3-shoot-down-chinese-j20-stealth-fighter-02-600×422.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
Yes, it’s a model illustration but interestingly, large Japanese warship classes often show up as models prior the real thing in steel. Perhaps to get the public acclimated to controversial designs is one explanation I heard.
Cheers!
Hi,
Interesting any idea of possible displacement? Air group size?
A CV22 AEW would be good – if they have the funds to do the development we could buy into there production run. Everyone wuns.
Not sure on any specifics but it would probably be in the RN’s QE class in size but with CATOBAR installed if that gives you any clue. Think USS Midway in size and capability. Here’s another illustration with a comparison between a future carrier and the Hyuga class helicopter carriers:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FZd00J.png&f=1&nofb=1
The Izumo is almost finished fitting out for F35B operations and the Chinese are not happy.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/06/26/japans-building-aircraft-carriers-chinas-thinking-about-sinking-them/
Cheers
What the Izumo and Kaga may look like after conversion
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.explicit.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP._VyxXU52u8QKIEOV-8i-JgHaDi%26pid%3DApi&f=1
I wonder why they’ve put the ramp so far back?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/asia/japan-new-stealth-fighter-intl-hnk-scli/index.html
Looks like an F22 hybrid.
Cheers
Japan understands, and is on the front line of Chinese aggression and expansion. Japan has a decent sized navy, being an Island……er we could learn from them in that respect.