The United States Second Fleet achieved full operational capability on December the 31st, 2019.

In May 2018, the US Navy Chief of Naval Operations announced plans to reestablish the Second Fleet amid heightened tensions between NATO and Russia.

Since its re-establishment in August 2018, Vice Admiral Andrew Lewis, the commander of the Second Fleet, has led the resurgence of the US Navy’s newest numbered Fleet, amid a return to “great power competition as outlined in the National Defense Strategy”, say the US Navy.

“Within an increasingly complex global security environment, our allies and competitors alike are well aware that many of the world’s most active shipping lanes lie within the North Atlantic,” Lewis said.

“Combined with the opening of waterways in the Arctic, this competitive space will only grow, and 2nd Fleet’s devotion to the development and employment of capable forces will ensure that our nation is both present and ready to fight in the region if and when called upon.”

The achievement of FOC signifies 2nd Fleet has reached sufficient capacity to sustain command and control over assigned forces using the operational functions and processes of the Maritime Operations Center and Maritime Headquarters, in accordance with US Navy Doctrine.

The Second Fleet will primarily focus on forward operations and the employment of combat ready naval forces in the Atlantic and Arctic, and to a smaller extent, on force generation and the final training and certification of forces preparing for operations around the globe, say the US Navy.

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Andy
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Andy

2nd Fleet has two carriers available to it at the moment, plus their strike groups and who knows how many attack subs (a lot). Not too shabby.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

Might be called into action sooner rather than later?

Let’s hope the new UK government will finally realise the threats facing us and increase defence spending significantly.

BB85
Guest
BB85

Might be too late. The strait of hormuz might be about to get a lot more dangerous for shipping.
Itd hard to know if it would make a difference though if there is not going to be a direct conflight.
What’s to stop Iran from using mini subs to lay mines everywhere and effectively close it off then deny responsibility.

Callum
Guest
Callum

If a load of mines suddenly appear in the Straits, Iran denying it isn’t exactly going to matter. Even the Russians would probably agree that it was the Iranians.

I imagine Montrose and Defender are going to be on bloody high alert right now, and the minesweepers are probably going to redouble their efforts.

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

Sadly, the pitiful hole in RN warship building in the last decade is coming home to roost? If this current crisis escalates, I fear, it will fall to the RN to do the lion’s share of UK operations. I would like the new government to speed up Type 26/31 build programme by choosing an English yard to help in such a strategy. The current Type 26 project is too extended considering the carriers are built and will soon be fully operational.

Callum
Guest
Callum

While I agree with the spirit behind your response, your suggestion is heavily flawed. Introducing a third yard into what is a relatively small build programme isn’t economically viable in either the short or long term. A better approach would be a more modest increase in the shipbuilding budget, get the current schedule for T26 moved up and additional hulls approved for T31. Set up the Clyde for T4X and Rosyth for one of a multitude of different contracts in the late 2020s/early 2030s time frames (the Albion replacements for example). No emergency rush is going to produce a ship… Read more »

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

any f factory able to produce heavy plate fabrication, and has access to the sea should b utilised by the m.o.d modular building should enable a wholistic approach by more areas of british idustry and faster builds could be the result.

Callum
Guest
Callum

Why would the MOD want dozens of suppliers to do a job only a few are needed for? You end up paying more for the same outcome when you factor in fixed costs (one factory producing 2X amount of stuff is cheaper than two factories producing X each because you only have one set of administrators, equipment, transport etc).

Our build times aren’t long because of delays in supply chains, they’re long because they’re being artificially inflated to match the rate at which the MoD can pay for them, or issues have arisen from inexperienced staff and poor project management

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

national shipbuilding? or more to the point clyde shipbuilding fixation?

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

I don’t see having extra shipbuilding capacity as flawed. In fact, unless there is a remarkable turn around in the Middle East, towards peace, I fear the current RN resources are not capable of widespread protection? If you send warships to these zones of tension, there is no logic in sending anything but true fighting ships. Today the RN simply does not have enough hulls to act in a fashion that our merchant fleet expects and deserves. The current maintenance problems need to get sorted and fast, to enable the RN to put to sea its maximum effort if called… Read more »

Callum
Guest
Callum

Trying to split a limited workload between too many yards IS flawed. You end up creating more jobs in the short term, which then disappear when the work dries up. Having just one or two yards that produce specific ship classes is more sustainable and saves money through efficiencies. Shipbuilding needs to be a steady drumbeat so that yards can build up and retain experienced workers, instead of having to lay off staff then train new ones. That’s the sort of thing that is contributing to delays and flaws in the Astute build and the OPVs for example. Relatively speaking,… Read more »

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

Callum, you are not getting my point. I want to see more shipbuilding capacity, and no redundancies, once the work is completed. That yard or yards, would be chasing other projects and not necessarily military. The UK needs to rebuild the shipbuilding industry for both domestic and overseas markets.

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

not too many yards ? i’d prefer too many contractors as long as the job gets done. why should the clyde get all the pie? their production rate is a disgrace, they should be set production delivery clauses in the contracts. in other words’STAND AND DELIVER.’

Callum
Guest
Callum

The problem with having more yards is that you’ve then got multiple yards competing against each other, not just for a limited amount of government contracts but also a VERY competitive export market. Some examples: the USN has all of its destroyers built by just two yards now. All of France’s frigates and exports are built at a single yard. The Clyde isn’t getting all the pie, is it. Rosyth is being invested in as a second site. With the experience and credibility gained on T31, Babcock will be in a much better place to compete with BAE Clyde for… Read more »

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

because the clyde yards production rates are a national disgrace.

Andy
Guest
Andy

It’s the governments choice to build at this rate, presumably to achieve greater economies of scale with Australia and Canada.

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

THE ONLY BUILT IN THE U.K POLICY SHOULD GO. THE SUCCESSIVE Governments OF US HAVE SEEN A ONCE PROUD SHIPBUILDING NATION DI SOLVED, AS A TAXPAYER, I DON’T CARE WHERE MY CAR IS PUT TOGETHER, I CARE ABOUT GETTING IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AND TO THE STANDARD I BELIEVE I’M PAYING FOR, THE Clyde IS A DISGRACE, SHODDY, SLOW, POORLY RUN,CONSISTENTLY LATE. and contracts should go abroad if we can get a better standard of production, i say stuff the Clyde you haven’t earned the contracts you have.

Paul42
Guest
Paul42

I just hope Montrose and Duncan have full war loads on board! If things do escalate and I think that is a very real possibility they could need every missile they can carry.

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

Does Montrose have Sea Sparrow (or whatever it’s called)? I’m always fearful for the safety of RN ships if they become involved in combat. I think it comes from the Falkland War and the regular reports of yet another stricken RN ship. A lot has been learned from that war in terms of shipbuilding and materials, however, it just needs one lucky strike (HMS Hood) and we would be down to three ships!

4thwatch
Guest
4thwatch

I think there is a case to be made to have a third yard with 51% Government share to get a handle on costs. This happened when we had the Royal Dockyards building Capital ships to counter being ripped off by Armstrongs. Their build speed was exemplary.

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

All RN vessels down in the Straits are in defence watches. When I was working with the Montrose crew a few months ago they had done something like 50 days in defence watches with only a couple of 24 hour stand downs in that period.
Since then they have gone home for 3 months and the second crew is now on board and carrying on where the others left off.

ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

Gunbuster, that sounds like a tough tempo and basically is a war footing. Not unreasonable given the way thngs are in the Middle East at the moment.

Certainly underlines the benefits of double crewing..!

Keep safe everyone.

Gavin Gordon
Guest
Gavin Gordon

And yet the latest SDR is still scheduled to major on savings ‘efficiencies’. There’s waste in all large organisations and cutting it where prudent is essential. However, the larger the Department the more the waste, but that does not stop tens of bilions in tax receipts being thrown at these if there’s votes in it – with very little required oversight in evidence.

BB85
Guest
BB85

I don’t think defense spending will drop, but we clearly need to maximise every penny spent on defense if the government has committed to increased health and social care spending. That means no more screwing about with failing defense procurement projects. Babcock need to deliver and deliver on budget, Warrior LEP should have been scrapped years ago and the money spent to increase Ajax and Boxer numbers. With increased availability we could get away with reduced numbers if 40 year old warriors cant make it out of maintenance for more than a week. If a new turret on challenger means… Read more »

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

Considering the US action overnight on the Iranian general, this second fleet might be required in the Med too before long? We may be on the verge of an interesting year?

HF
Guest
HF

Iran will undoubtedly react but if they engage in open war with the USA it will mean the end of the regime there, so that should restrain them.

Spyinthesky
Guest
Spyinthesky

Yeah what could they attack that doesn’t bring them into direct conflict with the US I wonder.

HF
Guest
HF

Do I detect a note of sarcasm ? They will use their proxies, of course, but keep it to a level that doesn’t force them into open conflict.

Paul42
Guest
Paul42

But that will be apparent, any use of proxy could still result in an all out response from the US. The situation is on a knife edge right now. Iran is adamant it will retaliate and in order to back the threats up they will need to be visibly seen to do so – in one way or another. Either way the result is going to be the same…….

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

They are already attacking the USA They attacked the US embassy in Baghdad. They are already intended on attacking USA, or were until this bloke was defenistrated. Its seems interesting that when Obama watches as Bin Laden is blown away the bleeding heart liberals just shrug… But go ape $h!T when Trump sees off a couple of murdering terrorists intent on killing americans (and other western christians!). Iran can shout and threaten but if it pushed too hard it would be bombed to bits. The self serving ayatolas know that. They are in fact on thin ice. The real people… Read more »

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

Are you comparing Bin Laden to Soleimani?

Sit down Trevor

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Obama sent several helicopters worth of SEALS to kill Bin Ladin and showed the word how he saw it happen.
And he sent them to do it clandestinely in a foreign country.
There is no difference and I’m happy sitting with my feet up.

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

Bin Laden was the worlds most wanted terrorist that British blood, as well many other nationalities in the coalition was spilt trying to catch

He masterminded the largest terrorist attack ever on American soil

Nobody knew who Soleimani was before he was killed, nobody including you

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

So why are you getting all upset? An obscure terrorist that murdered heaven knows how many. Why are the Left so upset.

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

What terror has he been involved in? How many civilians has he murdered?

How many US civilians died in his latest terrorist attack?

What terrorist group is he part of?

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

Why do you keep going on about the left, most left leaning people around the world couldn’t give a s**t, they probably care more about what’s going on in Australia

Do you mean the left in the UK, US and some of Europe? Probably because it’s their sons and daughters that might be put in harms way because of the whims of an unhinged US president, and plenty of people on the right are hardly supportive of this, even some European leaders

Watcherzero
Guest
Watcherzero

He wasn’t an obscure terrorist that’s the issue, he was a Major General and member of the Iranian government reporting directly to the Ayatollah and arguably the second most powerful member of Irans government. He was in charge of the Revolutionary Guards Quds Firce which is the 10,000 strong Iranian brigade responsible for special forces, Black Op’s and foreign intelligence, equivalent to CIA and SEALs. Its the equivalent of assassinating a Cabinet member or Secretary of State.

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Well I’ll go with that. I was told that no one in the media had heard of him.
As with Putin then, he has been authorising the murder of westerners… e.g. mainly Americans. And of course Bin Ladin had done the same until Obama agreed to get him shot… shot in Pakistan.

4thwatch
Guest
4thwatch

When I last looked the USA was having its own internal battle for its own regime change!

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

as long as we stay out of it.

Harold
Guest
Harold

Well said. This country cannot afford its foreign policy. Stay out of overseas military actions.

Simon
Guest
Simon

As spyinthesky is implying above I don’t think we’ll be able to 🙁

Paul42
Guest
Paul42

I think it’s safe to say we are already placing Assts in position in anticipation of Military Action with Iran

Ian
Guest
Ian

Paul42..which assits?

Paul42
Guest
Paul42

You mean assets. B1 Bombers in Saudi, amongst others. At least 1 Ohio class Cruise Missile sub and lots going on behind the scenes. When Trump says Targers will be hit hard and fast you can count on the right kit being in the right place to achieve that…….

Ian
Guest
Ian

We can not afford to get involved,let’s stay on the side lines with France and Germany

ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

The reactivation of the 2nd fleet would appear to be in direct response to Russia’s increased activity in the North Atlantic and perhaps China’s limited (so far) deployments to Russian ports in the Baltic.

The news out of the Middle East is serious, but any response from Iran will be asymmetric in nature and could make use of proxy forces. Not a good start to the New Year…

Helions
Guest
Helions

I’m sure the 2nd ( and the RN) will be chasing a few of these around in the future…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2020/01/02/leak-may-reveal-russias-answer-to-the-virginia-class-attack-submarine/#1a41d2616376

Cheers

dave12
Guest
dave12

I would imagine they wouldnt have the funds to build too many of these types of subs a bit like what happened to the armata tank.

ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

Hi Helions,

Looks good on paper but as dave12 points out they are unlikely to be able to build that many of them. Pretty much like everyone else except the Chinese and the USN it seems.

There was a link to an article on the RN’s next generation SSN as well. Unless, things really change at a political level that’ll be another programme that delivers too few units.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2019/12/08/new-intelligence-on-the-secretive-next-generation-british-attack-submarine-ssnr/#20129470107c

At least we may have learnt the lesson of not gapping the SSN / SSBN programme, here’s hoping.

Helions
Guest
Helions

Hi C.R. Completely concur with both yours and dave’s assessment on the realistic sub numbers the Russian Navy can put to sea in terms of absolute builds. The Russian economy in 2018 was 400 billion U.S. dollars smaller than the U.S. state of Texas’ alone (Forbes). Their population decline is getting worse with only 111 million Russians projected in 2050 from a high of ~ 142 million in 1990… Not enough to fund a massive war machine. Especially being reliant on a one resource economy. However, they don’t need to build a large number of them to win the strategic… Read more »

ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

Hi Helions, Yeh, Happy New Year to you too mate. China and Russia have an interesting relationship and sharing a common boarder I think puts China in the driving seat of that relationship. Russia, the biggest country on the planet with a shrinking population, as you point out, and potentially huge under developed resources that must be very tantilising for China. Perhaps it is no surprise that Putin chose to update Russia’s nuclear arsenal early in the rearmament programme. The time to really get worried is if the relationship grows and we see Chinese troops west of the Ural Mountains.… Read more »

Helions
Guest
Helions

The Russians know perfectly well that the PRC is far more of a threat to them than NATO and the U.S. Once the Chinese have milked them of every drop of weapons technology they will be relegated to the ignominious role of natural resource mine to the PRC without any say in China’s policies towards the rest of the world.

Siberia has about 3 people per square mile on their side of the Amur River. China? ~ 100,000,000 live on the Chinese side of the region… You do the math…

Cheers

Cheers

ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

Maths Na, its getting late over here and I’m a couple of glasses of wine to the better 🙂 But obviously the Russians are seriously outbumbered, hence my point about Russian nuclear weapons and the fact I do not entirely discount the chance of Chinese troops west of the Ural Mountains…

dave12
Guest
dave12

Yeah I saw a bbc documentary called Simon Reaves in Russia,apparently a lot of Chinese are taking over Russian abandoned farms bordering china as most Russians have migrated away from the area, it also mentioned Putin giving out medals to families with over 3 children.
The threat from Russia is also information, he is trying to legitimize dictatorships and floods the internet with its troll factory’s endorsing liberalism is dead which is total BS of course and Trump needs to get on board with that even if Putins got a tape recording of Russian hookers urinating on his bed lol!!!

ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

Just found this article with about the SSNR.

http://www.hisutton.com/Royal_Navy_Submarine_SSN-R.html

A bit more informed speculation…

Helions
Guest
Helions

Interesting article C.R. Thanks. The only point I don’t understand is the reluctance of the RN to include VLS tubes into their formidable submarine designs… Wonder if it’s culture, cost, or politics (both within and without the service)…?

Cheers

ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

You me both Helions, but there may be a good technical issue which creates some sort of trade-off. If this is the case – and I am surmising here – then the RN may simply have made a different choice based on different operational priorities.

Ian
Guest
Ian

Can we reactivate some of the subs tied up in our dock yards?

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

Nope.
The Majority are defueled.
Some also had “trouser leg” issues on the reactor cooling system which helped to hasten the out of service date.

Paul42
Guest
Paul42

Unfortunately No. All decomissioned boats are stripped and hulked awaiting dismantling. They are simply in floating storage.

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Perhaps America might bypass the “proxys” and ignore the monkey and hit the organ grinder..

ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

Hi Trevor,

I think they have already hit the organ grinder along with quite a few of his lieutenants apparently so I wouldn’t be surprised if their operations aren’t significantly disrupted…

Harold
Guest
Harold

What would the reaction be if the Iranian armed forces took out an American military leader? This latest solitary action by the US confirms what an increasing number are now thinking. Step away from the USA and fast! It’s not this country’s war!

ndy reeves
Guest
ndy reeves

the lttle cheap gotland class conventionally powered ssk built for a measly 100,000 million scored a 4 salvo attack on the onald feagan during an exercise, with this in mind it would appear ,that for all the numbers of ships in the groups the u.s carriers are indeed at a high risk of loss. whatever the u.s navy thinks about the effectiveness of these carrier groups.

pkcasimir
Guest
pkcasimir

If you really think that the UK can defend itself in a war with a major power without US assistance then fine. If not, the UK has no other choice but to remain a close ally of the US.

Harold
Guest
Harold

I don’t see an approaching Iranian task force.

BB85
Guest
BB85

Without the US backing up Europe there would be very little stopping Russia reasserting control over the baltics in the same way they did in Georgia and Ukraine. Sure that does not directly threaten the UK so maybe we should just scrap all defense spending because no one is directly threatening our borders.

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

Who cares who has control over the “Baltics” combined population same as Scotland, would hardly be a game changer either way would it

BB85
Guest
BB85

The US could apply the same logic to the whole of Europe. They did for a while and look where that got them.
If Russia did regain the Baltic’s unchallenged they wouldn’t be too long re-asserting their influence/control over the slavic states. The serb’s would certainly welcome them. Before you know it the Border with Russia would effectively be Poland and Hungary.

pkcasimir
Guest
pkcasimir

Look out your window and you’ll see Russian naval and air activity in the seas surrounding the UK. The Russia that assasinates its “enemies” with impunity on British soil.

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

So what is it exactly you’re saying? If we don’t follow and agree with US foreign policy Russia is going to invade the UK?

Put the board game RISK down, pack it up, stick it back in the attic and get yourself back into the real world mate

Helions
Guest
Helions

Plenty of room for cooperation remains in many areas and it’s beneficial for both sides IMO.

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2020/1/3/united-kingdom-teaming-with-united-states-in-space

Cheers!

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

i wish we had a fleet full stop.

Helions
Guest
Helions
Helions
Guest
Helions
Helions
Guest
Helions

USS Bataan ARG diverts for the region. I’m fairly certain at least 1 – possibly 2 of the USNs Ohio class SSGNs are in the region as well. That’s close to 400 TLAMs…

https://news.usni.org/2020/01/03/uss-bataan-marines-26th-meu-heading-to-middle-east-amid-tensions-with-iran

Cheers

Geoffrey Roach
Guest
Geoffrey Roach

I think the chances of Iran taking serious military action is zero. State sponsored terrorism and other nasty tricks they will come up with but they do not have the capability to wage war in any accepted conventional way. Much as I dislike Trump he ( or those in the State Dept, ) have for the first time backed up talk with action.. You attack us…we are coming back at you. As long as he can be kept away from twitter this could be a real step forward.

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

Correct. The bleeding hearts , the lefties like Corbyn, said nothing when Iran proxys attacked the US embassy and other westerners. That’s what’s called appeasement. Its the reaction, the counter attacks, to these “proxys” will make the Iranians think twice. Its allowing ourselves … effectively by the USA … to refuse to be salami sliced by these “proxys” that will stop Iran.

Herodotus
Guest

Wondered how long it would take for the undoubted Corbyn-Iranian axis to be brought up. What next….a pusillanimous EU is to blame for encouraging Iran…the prism of the right-wing is back to its Mr Magoo best. 🙂

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

By all means substitute the “pacifist left”. There is little difference except that Corbyn takes the trouble to lay wreath.

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

Trevor, if you took the time and can get your head around the concept, you can search peoples twitter history to see how many times in the past they have mentioned a particular word You see if you searched all your guys, the opposite of the “bleeding hearts” you keep mentioning, you know the Trumps, Shapiros, Fox News and practically every single right wing commentator that exists, search before a few days ago for the word “Soleimani” I’ll save you the trouble, not one single right wing commentator has never so much as mentioned this guys name in anger, before… Read more »

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

You are the one getting ants in your pants. All the hysteria is coming from Left.

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

Why are you only classifying hysteria as being against it?

Are people not being hysterically supportive, are people pretending to actually know who Soleimani was and are experts in Iranian politics not hysterical, they weren’t talking about it before the other day was they

What about Helions on here giving us step by step links saying “round dos” he’s hysterical about it

It’s the same thing every time, anyone who isn’t supportive of conflict is some “bleeding heart left hippy” it’s utter nonsense

Trevor
Guest
Trevor

The “Right” are being mildly supportive and suggesting that the USA are entitled to defend its interests.
The “Left” are howling about “WW3”. I’m guessing that Corbyn has already phoned in his order to Interflora.

SoleSurvivor
Guest
SoleSurvivor

If that makes your simplistic “left and right” worldview easier then of course, except it’s not all like that at all like I have explained to you above

Don’t think they deliver to Iran

Helions
Guest
Helions

Not sure what you’re referring to Sole IRT my post? Merely informational.

Cheers!

ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

It’s started in Baghdad with mortars and rockets at an air base and the green zone. Probably unplanned and the work of local militias at this stage.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50995792

Helions
Guest
Helions
ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

HI Helions, Yup, I think the Iranains are in a bind but obviously the situation is still very danagerous. I have been thinking about the nature of the strike and agree with the article, going for the man is a damned site better than hitting a country or a city. It was a geniume and very rare pin point surgical strike. I was surprised when the news broke that such a high ranking Iranian was in Iraq, so I can only guess at how surprised ordinary Iraqis are! I think there is a significant risk that the Iranians will take… Read more »

r cummings
Guest
r cummings

He has been in Iraq many times and in Syria too, all reported in middle East press. He was a bona fide military officer, so no reason to travel incognito. Quds force is the Shia external operations arm, responsible for establishing Iranian leadership of Shia populations for Iran’s ends, which Quds have done by training and arming militias in the 4 states with Shia majorities (Iraq ) or large minorities (Syria, Lebanon, Notth Yemen). Not sure that killing the commander was the right answer, he will be replaced by his 2ic, it just places commanders on the US/Sunni muslim side… Read more »

ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

Hi r cummings, I share your misgivings with regards to mounting an attack in the first place but at least the choice of target was precise – better than hitting targets in populated areas. I think the current situation was virtually inevitable after the US pulled out of the nuclear deal with Iran and re-imposed sanctions. As I have said elsewhere we are in strange times with the old geopolitical norms being re-written. Iran has learnt to push to the limit of the old boundaries, with the US being the target of their ire. I think the US has finally… Read more »

Helions
Guest
Helions
ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

Interesting read thanks, Helions, and yup I would pretty much agree with what is being said especially with regards to China. They are getting way too bullying and now they are pressuring Germany as well as the UK over G5 – Hmm something smells rotten there… As for the middle east, they just got the rules re-written so they will ALL have to think about what it means, but Iran has the most urgent need to stop and think. The choice of 52 targets is symbolic and few are talking about that – 52 US hostages in ’78 – its… Read more »

Mark B
Guest
Mark B

To Trump I think this must be simple. Threaten them with the aim of forcing them to put their guns down so everyone can remain safe and Trump can bring the troops home (and get the credit). Are things that simple I doubt it.

ChariotRider
Guest
ChariotRider

Hi Mark B, May be Trump is thinking like that, but it occured to me that the aims of recent US actions were more about reining Iran back from its current course. Certainly all the comments have been about a planned Iranian attack, so relatively short term stuff. Any longer term impact would likely not last that long as I think there is a risk that Iran will do something. They may even wait until Trump leaves office as they can play the long game as well as any. I’d be surprised if the US thought that this action would… Read more »

Ulya
Guest
Ulya

Interesting comments regarding Iran even though most here have limited understanding of what’s been done. I am pleased to see many wish to stay out of what’s to come, I just hope your government continues to think the same

Mark B
Guest
Mark B

I am sure neither of our counties interests lie in stoking the tensions in this area of the world. Whilst I can see how Iran avoids conflict I wonder if they will make the effort.

Ulya
Guest
Ulya

I don’t see either the americans or Iranians backing down, neither side wants to talk or show weakness so the best you and I can hope for is our countries not to getting involved

Mark B
Guest
Mark B

Oh Trump will want to talk at the appropriate time. His terms are probably predictable. The question is are those with influence in the region going to work together to get some form of harmony for the area. Not sure this type of nonsense is good for anyone.

Ulya
Guest
Ulya

You have more faith than me Mark, trump’s words are meaningless and the red flag raised so some will have to die first. Maybe the other ME countries and even Putin will have some luck calming Iran anger but they would have to offer much in return. I’m sure any ME country with US military are shitting themselves right now

Mark B
Guest
Mark B

If Iran responds by shedding US blood then it will escalate until Iran understand they cannot win. Better for everyone to open some back channels and arrange some face saving for all sides.

Ulya
Guest
Ulya

Iran already understand they cannot win, but they also know the US cannot either so for now it will be blood for blood until someone offers a good deal or the price becomes to high. For all the years the US/UK have spent in this part of the world I am always surprised how little you understand.

Mark B
Guest
Mark B

You might be right Ulya. As a Brit I might point out that our policy on the ME differs significantly from that of the US. We moved out long ago reluctantly returning only when there was a danger the US and Russia had got their shit together. That was a little premature – perhaps one day.

Herodotus
Guest

I think that may be a reasonable analysis of the casual observer of the situation. By and large, the British have a good reputation in the Middle-East. I have personal experience as to the respect that British diplomats have in Arabia. The British Foreign Office has a long history of Arabist sympathies and is respected for this, Iran is a different case. Relations that had soured under Mosaddegh improved with the Shah, only to be downgraded by the 78/79 revolution. Being a friend of the Arab world and the Persians is a difficult trick to master. Don’t confuse the ‘shoot… Read more »

Mark B
Guest
Mark B

Interesting. Any views on the likely reaction from the Oval Office and State Dept to a less than diplomatic reaction from the Persians?

Helions
Guest
Helions

I guess we’ll find out by morning with dozens of IRGC missiles raining down on U.S. bases in Iraq… Going to get interesting.

Cheers