Members of GMB Scotland working at the Defence Equipment & Support (DES) munitions depot in Beith, North Ayrshire, are poised to strike on Monday over a dispute regarding retention bonuses.
The union alleges the existence of a “two-tier workforce” at the base, resulting in only managers and craft workers receiving bonuses, while non-craft workers are left out.
GMB Scotland has argued that this discrepancy leads to non-craft workers earning less than many supermarket workers. DES is an autonomous entity of the MoD, responsible for providing equipment and support services to the UK armed forces.
GMB Scotland organiser Chris Kennedy said, “These workers are utterly vital to the UK armed forces – they deserve to be recognised as such.” Kennedy criticised management for allowing a two-tier workforce to develop, fostering resentment and anger among the workers.
He further warned that “if the Defence Secretary does not step in to right this wrong, supplies of the crucial missiles manufactured at Beith will soon run low.” This forthcoming strike is noted to be the first in DES’s history, adding to the gravity of the situation.
The union revealed that a staggering 93% of GMB members at the depot voted in favour of strike action, and over 50 workers are expected to walk out on Monday.
Responding to the situation, an MoD spokesperson confirmed that “pre-planned contingency measures are being implemented at Defence Munitions (DM) Beith to ensure the continued operation of the site.”
The MoD also stated they remain open to dialogue with GMB, aiming to discuss and resolve the issues raised.
Ummmmm
They are called a TRADE Union – clue is in the name – they are supposed to be interested in supporting the skilled TRADES
Historically that mean that unions supported differential pay with increased trades and skills…..
Trade Unions have long ago ceased to be anythig more than shake down crew. Back in the day they were once Guilds, protecting their members, but also their craft excellence and professionalism….my my look have far things have gone down hill.
Do you enjoy weekends? Thank a trade unionist. If you like 8 hour work days, thank a trade union. If you like statutory holidays, thank a trade unionist.
All well and good, but Unions trading on past glories,whilst now more interested in point scoring, supporting and feathering their own nests with members subs etc, is why they are increasingly becoming irrelevant.
My local wel known thade union is even using members money to lay on free coaches for Antifa far left thugs, and stinky rebellion/stop oil terrorists to get to events In London etc to cause trouble.
And they aren’t the only union doing that
I mean do u really think without trade unions we would all be working 7 days a week I don’t think so things move on however I do respect unions of the past that worked for the workers not now
Well as a classic example the big health unions accepted the governments less than generous 5% pay rise..because the government gave the un qualified staff a 9.3 rise..now I’m not against care assistants porters etc getting a reasonable rise but effectively unison sold it’s qualified healthcare professionals down the river as we now know the independent review board recommended 6% for NHS staff…which is now off the table as unison agreed the 9.8% for lower paid staff and 5% for everyone else….the issue is the RCN never agreed the pay rise and can still call another strike ballot and we… Read more »
Are you saying that the NHS should have followed the independant reviewers ‘advice’ and given 6% across the board- or that the unions shouldnt have recommended the offer? I’m not sure if they balloted their members on that offer following their recommendation. I assume in your figures you consider the -£30k as the student debt which is- of cousre – slightly misleading/ambiguous . Foe example How do you know care wokers havent studied for a degree. I do feel some vocations shoudn’t have to pay for their degree- nurses may be one , but that is a different arguement &… Read more »
Yes the NHS should have got the pay review body recommendations, it was not a great move for the unions to recommend any pay rise without knowing what the review body was going to say… As for nursing degrees..once the NHS actually paid its student nurses as they spend 2000 hours working for the NHS as part of their training…now they pay…when I qualified I was paid £320 pounds a month,,now student nurses have to pay £30,000. It’s not unreasonable to remove the cost of education from a nurses income as you work it out because they spend those three… Read more »
I dont disagree with your rationale that we shoud pay qualified staff more money. However for your argument regards wages you cant take the degree into consideration as a negative thats all I was saying. For the record I find it shameful Nurses now have to pay for their degrees especially for the time they spend on the war. However as they can use that qualification outside of the NHS I’m not sure what the solution is – I would perhaps look to re-emburse based on time spent working for the NHS- Would do the same for dentists and doctors… Read more »
Hi yes I think basically any healthcare professionals who works in the nhs as part of their registration requirements should be paid for that and credited against Uni costs..basically they should get the band 2 or 3 pay ( years 1-2 band 2 years 3+ band 3) so for a nurse that would be £25,000 credit against their uni costs…so effectively what you are looking at is free uni education for healthcare professionals as the reason for that is they work and provide patient care as part of their training. Which I think is fair and everyone can understand why… Read more »
The Trade Unions seem determined to make their tradesmen and women irrelevant so taking actions that will in the medium term put them out of jobs. We are in a material shortage of ammunition – of all calibers. We need the working population to pull together but that seems too much to ask! The problem as I see it is population density.
I think the unions that settled with Rishi’s pay offer read the room and thought they would get much public support in a recession. BMA can’t read the room as they drink NHS cool aid and think that everyone will support consultants asking for massive pay rises all of who earn over £85k. GMB are misreading this one too as there is about to be a surfeit of workers in BoE raises rates again. I’m not optimistic that BoE is reading the room either but there is a lot of deflation coming on the back of very fat margins and… Read more »
While I don’t agree with the consultants going out on strike, many of them earn more than the PM, I do have a smidgen of sympathy for the junior doctors, though their 35% demand is pie in the sky. I have a friend who is now a consultant. When he was doing his second year of SPR training in 2004, he took home £1400 pcm. A junior doctor undertaking exactly the same stage of training in 2023 takes home around £1850 pcm. Adjusted just for inflation between 2004 and 2023, i.e. no ‘pay rise’ as such, they should be taking… Read more »
from STV: Around 40 workers are to take part in demonstrations outside the depot on Friday and Monday. DES is an arm’s length body of the MoD which delivers equipment and support services to the UK armed forces. GMB Scotland said non-craft workers at the base, who prepare arms and munitions for transport, are being refused the same retention bonuses as managers and craft workers, who assemble munitions for the armed forces. The union said limiting extra payments, intended to reward staff through busy periods only to some workers has “created division and ill-will.” GMB Scotland organiser Chris Kennedy said:… Read more »
Often it is the ‘ill will’ dimension that pushes people ver the edge.
How much a craft fitter earns at Beith: Craft/Engineering Fitter 1 month ago £28.6K a year Full–time Job descriptionAt Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S), we’re looking for Craft/Engineering Fitters to join our team at Defence Munitions Beith (DM Beith). This site plays a crucial role for defence, supplying and maintaining many of the weapon systems used by the UK military, as they defend national interests across the globe. When you join Defence Munitions, you’ll join a family of skilled and experienced civil servants who are enthusiastic about delivering essential equipment and munitions to our military customers, from bullets, shells and… Read more »
So they are getting £10,000 extra on their pay than non craft. That’s quite a chunk, no wonder they aren’t happy.
Would obviously need to know what the other staff get to be sure it is £10k.
Can’t give bonuses to some workers and expect others not to be pissed off.
Really the bonus seems out of scale with the wage.
Typical dysfunctional UK management. There needs to be a fair reward for work done rather than workers relying on benefits to survive while the wealth is hoarded at the top.
That gap has only widened drastically over recent decades. There’s always somehow a necessity to hold wages down for most during any crisis while those at the top somehow of “necessity” have to be very well paid or they’ll take themselves elsewhere.
Can we really afford to pay munitions workers poorly?
Frank wrote: “”Typical dysfunctional UK management. There needs to be a fair reward for work done rather than workers relying on benefits to survive while the wealth is hoarded at the top.”” Nobody denies that low paid people should get paid more, but the simple fact remains that the biggest number of strikers are not low paid be it: Nurses : Starting pay £29K a year Junior Drs: Basic starting pay of £29K which ignores the many add on which a Dr on his first year can earn such as : Training to be a GP: extra £9,144 a year Training… Read more »
So you feel £29k for teachers & nurses isn’t low paid- When they have to have a degree to even get the position – but train dfrivers can get 65k- which to me is quite simply extortionate.
Both the Tory & Labour governmenrt have for far too long relied on cheap labour from the EU to control inflation.
That is no longer available and businesses will now have to start to pay people their worth along with training them and getting people out of their ‘benefits mindset’ – I think mindsets have been skewed for too long.
Was always going to happen, as soon as the unions saw there was going to be an increase in orders they would want increases.
I’m willing to bet as soon as they get wage rises for the non ‘craft’ then it will be “look the craft staff are not paid enough in comparison to non ‘craft’ they deserve more for their qualification”
That’s not the issue. It’s the bonus paid to some staff but not others that’s the issue
Sadly, in many organisations retention bonuses are only paid to staff whom have a skill set that the business need to keep as they can’t replace them if they leave at short notice.
Other staff, whom are in roles that could see then easily replaced if they left, often don’t receive retention bonuses.
It’s unfair as both are vital for the company, but it is reality. The company needs to retain the staff it would struggle to replace if they left.
In the Civil Service only those who had done a stellar job throughout the year got a bonus.
Isn’t that why we learn trades though? If everyone gets the same wage what’s the incentive to put the time effort and costs to get the qualifications?
Oh I’m not saying they should all get the same but if they did bonuses for all based on percentage of wage/hours worked etc it takes away the them verses us argument.
Also the craft people should have a higher wage rather than needing a 35-40% bonus to make up.
The few Unions that still exist in the UK, are more general Unions than in days gone by. Back in the day, there were ‘skilled’ workers Unions, and semi-skilled for want of a better way of describing them.
There were Unions that represented workers in all industries, one of the more obscure being K.F.A.T the confederation of footwear knitwear and apparel trades.
All long gone, and mostly forgotten…
GMB are the biggest clowns in existence.
The US has give him our fabulous Ukrainian friend more more munitions and straight up cash than the entire UK defense budget. Still doesn’t seem to be happy though. Oddly enough, it seems to be wearing thin.
You clearly do not think President Zelensky is fabulous or there is anything odd in this relationship. Say what you mean.
You wear very thin with your boring and continuous anti UK jealous rants and digs my little fence climber!
What exactly does this facility do? Just curious
When did a lack of knowledge stop you having an opinion?
Just asking? Asking a question is not an opinion. Try to follow along. Is English not your first language??
A search online would answer your question very easily. I understand nuance. You are dissembling.
Take a look at any open source satellite picture. You don’t need to be a photographic interpreter to get a clue. As for what’s in there maybe best you don’t know.
It is an DM facility, one of several MoD installations of the DM Group, part of DES. It does not, AFAIK, deal with the types of munition as seen in the photos, but with “complex weapons” so – missiles – Stormshadow and TLAM amongst them. Others are – Glen Douglas ( General munitions, Northern Bomb stock ) Coulport ( Torpedo, Trident ) Crombie. Longtown. ( primarily army munitions ) Eastriggs ( sub location of Longtown ) Kineton. ( General munitions, Southern Bomb Stock, the biggy ) Ernsettle ( DM depot for Devonport, so RN centric ) Gosport ( DM depot… Read more »
If factions hostile to the U.K. didn’t know before, they do now. It amazes me what is known now.
All open source Barry, available at a click of a mouse and a few minutes research. I’m knowledgeable enough on this subject to know what to leave out in my commentary.
I appreciate many still have a cold war mentality when many of these places were not even on OS maps. Even then I knew about them. If I do, a rank nobody who’s interested, so do proper intelligence professionals. The function of individual buildings is a different matter, not the existence of the sites.
I had to sign up to view aerial photographs of sensitive areas last century, said photographs to be kept under lock and key. You not only gave place names but purpose. A great deal seems to be online. I suspect everyone knowing is a way of keeping the peace.
Hmmm, not sure on that keeping the peace. You must know that there are secrets, then there are SECRETS, Barry, none of which are mentioned on this forum.
That MoD have publicised these places themselves is sufficient cause for me to mention them.
There are places they do not publicise, that speaks for itself.
Ah ces français…
Oh wait…
Sad and weak, try to stick on your side of the border!
‘The union revealed that a staggering 93% of GMB members at the depot voted in favour of strike action, and over 50 workers are expected to walk out on Monday.’
Clearly, something has gone wrong at this facility beyond the cost of living crisis and profit inflation.
I don’t understand BW comments. Zelensky and Ukraine didn’t ask to be invaded and is basically fighting a proxy war for NATO against their No.1 historical adversary. They should be demanding and getting everything we have.
It’s not a NATO proxy war, NATO would destroy Russian in a second. NATO would much rather the entire conflict never happened but it can’t just allow one country to benefit from being an aggressor.
NATO have watched their No.1 historical adversary get their arses handed to them for a generation and shown to be only capable of limited defensive warfare. The international community might not have wanted war or the instability and power vacuum it might create. However for NATO, the military alliance, this is cheap compared to the trillions spent in the Cold War for little result.
So you actually think Russia will go home and give back Crimea? Russia will come out of this war with more territory. The benefit to Ukraine is they will be in the EU and nato. The land bridge to Crimea is what this war is about
Aha, it’s 01’s mate 🙄
Haven’t you fallen out of a window yet?
I was a Cold War warrior (BAOR, 4 postings). I thought we did a good job. We were a deterrent to USSR ambitions on further enlarging their sphere of influence to the West – and ultimatley ‘the other guy blinked’ when they could not keep up the military spending etc. USSR collapsed, Warsaw Pact dismantled. Germany reunited. Eastern Europe set free. I call that a result.
This sounds like an “Act of Treason” to me, perhaps Mr. Kennedy should be tried under such law.
Unions are finished. The national living wage is enough. It should be written into employment contracts that strikes are sackable. If you can earn more in supermarket, go and work there then.
It might be enough in Moscow or whatever shithole you live in, its not a genuine living wage in the UK though. You can be excused for not knowing this having never set foot in the country though…
Holy shit, it’s Mrs Thatcher 002
👻😱
You ought to be on stage- comedy gold.
Talking of muntions (maybe British) the Kerch Bridge was hit last night
and a couple of pictures of the damage. From the looks of things from opposite ends
And a video taken just after the bridge was struck
And finally a video of the damaged bridge taken by a passenger on a train passing by
Off piste F, who is prospective Tom Turgendhat /Wallace relief??
🤔👀
He was an outspoken back bencher for a few years, chairing the Foreign Affairs Select Committee. His name was tossed about as DefSec when Mordaunt got the job. Never backward at coming forward, he threw his hat in the ring for PM when Johnson was ousted. He voted against Brexit, but is definitely not a rejoiner. He got what I think is a non-cabinet position as Minister of State for Security under Liz Truss last year, but although he clearly has a lot of friends/connections and a background in the Territorials (Iraq and Afghanistan), whether he’s seen as a safe… Read more »
TVM Jon 👌👍
TVM Jon 👌👍(handle gave me a giggle) 😏
I don’t think your learn much about western tank performance in Ukraine. They are designed to be used in conjunction with other forces. Not just driven across a field at a bunch of guys with ATGM’s. I saw a video this morning of what looked very much like 3 Mastiffs burnt out on some muddy track. All clumped together.
There may be some truth in what you say.
This sort of thing could impact the UK’s ability to defend itself and it’s allies and consequently the Government should have someway of imposing a settlement and banning industrial action under such conditions.
MarkB, how was the same situation settled during WW2? 🤔👍
Emergency Powers (Defence) Act 1939
Not sure there is a need for powers quite as sweeping as that. However perhaps we need to provide Government with solutions which can been invoked at short notice.
TVM MarkB. Different times I guess 🤔👌👍
Contrary to the popular belief of “we’re all in it together” during WW2 there was plenty of trade union activity and outright belligerence precisely because they knew the vital importance of their members work and had the bosses/government over a barrel – factory workers were well paid in those days.
Okay WSM, Couldn’t quite get my head around how the Dutch forces unions applied (yep, in the 70’s) 😵. Not sure if it’s still in effect.
Given that a large amount of the boss were quite happy for the workforce to stave during the 1920’s & 1930’s,are you surprised ?
At least one Leo2 has been destroyed, Farouk reports.
There are plenty of online resources to find out how Western Tanks are doing,Twitter has many options,other avenues are available – https://www.tanknet.org/index.php?/topic/16675-armor-of-ukraine/page/121/