A US Navy MQ-4C Triton has been shot down by an Iranian surface to air missile while in international airspace over the Strait of Hormuz, a US official has said.
Iranian state media however quoted Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as saying it had downed a drone when it entered Iranian airspace near the Kouhmobarak district north of the Strait of Hormuz.
This is the second time in a week the US has announced that Iran has attacked one of its drones.
According to a statement from US Central Command issued on the 16th, an MQ-9 was also attacked:
“According to our assessment, a modified Iranian SA-7 surface-to-air missile attempted to shoot down a U.S. MQ-9, at 6:45 a.m. local time, June 13, over the Gulf of Oman, to disrupt surveillance of the IRGC attack on the M/T Kokuka Courageous.
Subsequent analysis indicates that this was a likely attempt to shoot down or otherwise disrupt the MQ-9 surveillance of the IRGC attack on the M/T Kokuka Courageous.”
The Triton is a high altitude long endurance aircraft that will be used for maritime patrol and other surveillance roles.
Supporting missions up to 24 hours, the Triton is equipped with a sensor suite that provides a 360-degree view of its surroundings for over 2000 nautical miles.
The Triton builds on elements of the Global Hawk UAS, with reinforcements to the airframe and wing.
This incident will likely escalate tensions further.
An expensive outcome as well.
At $120 million a pop you’re not wrong there!
I wonder if the wreckage has been recovered yet… and if it fell in international waters or Iranian? I imagine some of the equipment would be rather sensitive.
I would assume some sort of auto destruct facility is in place for sensitive high end UAV’s like the Triton.
At least some sort of localised explosive charge for the classified avionics that you certainly wouldn’t want to fall into the hands of the Russians or Chinese.
Best not to assume anything. What you’d think would be a common sense thing is often left out of military hardware for whatever reasons. Like not equipping a $130 million UAV with some sort of ECM.
Google:
“Everything We Know About Iran’s Claim That It Shot Down A U.S. RQ-4 Global Hawk Drone”
For a little more info on the subject
They don’t care. It’s only taxpayer money. lol
This is getting seriously scary. If it doesn’t calm down I wonder what it will do to Emirates Airlines revenues. I’ve got a flight booked through Dubai in October and I confess that I would have some concerns if this situation gets any hotter especially with the reminder of MH-17 back in the news yesterday.
Dito. Im off to africa via dubai in 5 weeks… Maybe… All good
Iran, ruled by Mad Mullahs of 6th-century thinking, armed with 21st-century weapons, is, in anyone’s books, a danger to the modern world.
@Ian – Quite possibly so Ian and I can share your concern but can I gently remind you which country it is that has reneged on an International Treaty with 4 other major nations, 3 of whom are NATO allies, and the EU?
By all means criticise but at least have the decency to provide the overall context here. Iran was in full compliance with the terms of that Treaty and was shown by independent inspectors to be so. Then along comes Trump, plays to his own domestic echo chamber and pulls out of it. Immediately the US media machine goes to work peddling untruths, sanctions are applied, a carrier group is sent, B-52s are positioned and then they look aghast that the country the USA are trying to cripple economically fights back?
I am no defender of Islam or the Iranians who are without doubt trouble makers but then so are Israel, Syria and the Saudis in different ways. No one has clean hands in the Middle East. But we are witnessing the deliberate betrayal of an International Treaty that removed the risk of Iranian nuclear weapons and the cranking up of the US Military industrial machine. And lets not forget the USA is also engaged in a trade war with China and the EU both signatories to this Treaty. The only common causal factor here is once again US Foreign Policy.
Bang on the money Chris H, this isn’t just 1 aggressor
Spot on, Chris – but has the US actually GOT a coherent foreign policy? Perhaps if we trawl through DT’s tweets we might find one…
Chris is right. Trump is so desperate to eradicate Obama’s legacy that he’s putting lives at risk. Scary stuff.
I find it incredulous, that any nation is naive enough to think, that Iran’s agenda is anything less/other than becoming a nuclear power.
It’s the sanctions threatening Irans Theopolitical Leadership, that force it to take a belligerent stance.
The Mullahs are concerned about civil unrest and any subsequent revolt! Heaven forbid that Iran may again return to a thriving, modern-day society, as it was pre-revolution/pre-Islamic State…
So, what’s brought The US to this juncture?
I believe it’s because of Obama’s blind statesmanship, which was fed by the likes of Merkel’s plans for an EU republic, led by Germany, backed-up by France, with its villein subordinates in tow.
Do these so-called ‘Leaders’ honestly believe, that Israel is going to sit back, whilst a rogue nation threatens its right exist, through calls for: “The annihilation Israel”?
Do you honestly believe that any other Sovereign Nation, faced with such real threats and already facing border conflicts, with more and more Iranian backed, Iranian armed/supplied Islamists, is going to allow the belligerent protagonist to succeed?
So, as you can see, I don’t need “gently reminding” of a flawed treaty!
Here endeth my robust retort!
Respect to all…
“I believe it’s because of Obama’s blind statesmanship, which was fed by the likes of Merkel’s plans for an EU republic, led by Germany, backed-up by France, with its villein subordinates in tow.”
Frankly total and utter Paranoid Bollards!
Firstly Obama wasn’t blind to what he was doing, he had an eye on normalising relations with Iran in the long term and influencing the succession to the current Supreme Leader through the Carrot of lifting sanctions. As Chris H points out the independent nuclear verification was working and the moderates in Iran had gained an advantage in the process of succession. Trump by smashing up the deal has empowered the hard liners in Iran and made the succession of the Supreme leader more likely to be a hard liner.
Secondly Merkel is not interested in an EU Republic led by Germany, to suggest as such is deeply offensive Germanophobic paranoid nonsense! Merkel is at the end of her career and will soon be leaving the position of Chancellor to suggest that modern day Germany has plans of conquest via the EU is absurd and shameful to suggest.
Ian what do you think the US and Israeli agenda is?
Iran tried to make peace and recognise Israel 20 years.
The biggest rogue state in the Middle East is Israel, there is not another country on the planet that has ignored more UN resolutions than Israel. Nearly 50% of all UN human rights resolutions are towards Israel.
Israel has 100 nuclear weapons, and has a policy of illegal “pre-emptive” military action towards any nation it sees as a threat.
Israeli policy in the Middle East is easy to understand, it wants to be undisputed top dog and their leader will happily show the world a load of unverified garbage on a power point to make the US pull out of the treaty.
If the Iranian Islamic leaders were pro US like Saudi Arabia’s Islamic leaders we would not be having this conversation, does that not speak volumes about what’s actually going on here?
“there is not another country on the planet that has ignored more UN resolutions than Israel.”
And moves against this are then vetoed by the US.
Just like when Russia and China are portrayed as the big bad wolf for using the veto concerning Syria.
Politics!
SS wrote:
“”Ian what do you think the US and Israeli agenda is? Iran tried to make peace and recognise Israel 20 years.”
Not true, Iran since the mullahs took control in 1979 has pushed for the destruction of Israel.
1979: Khomeini declared Israel an “enemy of Islam” and ‘The Little Satan’
2000: Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called Israel a “cancerous tumour” that should be removed from the region
If Iran wanted to make peace, it would reopen diplomatic relation, something it refuses to do.
@farouk – Sadly this cannot be brief but you keep pointing the accusing finger at Iran. However up to 1979 relations between Israel and Iran were to say the least very close. Indeed Israel survived the 6 day war thanks to fuel supplied by Iran and oil from Iran was sold via Israel and the Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline. After the change of power in ’79 Israel refused to pay for oil supplied by Iran amounting to some $1 Bn in ’79 money. Repeated demands have been refused by Israel despite a court judgment in May 2015 ordering the immediate payment of $1.1 Bn by Israel. Supported by the USA Israel refused (and still refuses) to pay. Despite this Iran still signed up in good faith to the JCPoA in July 2015.
Of course when it suits the USA it helps Iran as it did between ’81 and ’88 in the Iran / Iraq war by using Israeli military stocks. Iran bought some $500 Mn of military supplies paid for by Iranian oil. The Iranian F-4s were kept in the air by US supplied parts sold to Israel and then illegally moved to Iran. However Ariel Sharon said he wished to:
“leave a small window open” to the possibility of good relations with Iran in the future.
Source:
‘Treacherous Alliance: The secret dealings of Israel, Iran and the United States’ by Trita Parsi, Yale University Press 2007
However you only partially quote to suit your agenda. What Khamenei said in 2005 was:
“Palestine belongs to Palestinians, and the fate of Palestine should also be determined by the Palestinian people”.
And:
“the Islamic Republic has never threatened and will never threaten any country.”
Source:
“Leader’s Speech to Government Officials on the Eid-al-Fitr”. khamenei.ir. 04/11/05.
Indeed of all the major Middle East players created after WWI Iran is the ONLY country to NOT attack any other country but has been vilified and attacked by everyone else. It last attacked another country 200 years ago!
Now there was a strong element of truth in SoleSurvivor’s comment because despite reformist President Khatami calling Israel an “illegal state” he also said in 1999 Jews would be “safe in Iran” and all religious minorities would be protected.
Source:
“Khatami: Jews are safe in Iran”. BBC News. 14/06/99
Under Khatami Iran tried in 2003 to initiate a rapprochement with Israel by recognizing its existence in a proposal to the United States. Reports claim that Iran’s peace proposal with Israel was not accepted by the United States. So maybe do some of your own research?
The JCPoA treaty, as Fedaykin points out well, was a chance to bring Iran into the global family and return to normal arrangements and encourage less radical people in Iran. Current US Foreign Policy does not want that given its Middle East policy is dictated by Israel – a country it directly supports through military aid to the tune of $3 Bn every January.
SS wrote:
“The biggest rogue state in the Middle East is Israel, there is not another country on the planet that has ignored more UN resolutions than Israel. “
Would that be the UN which devotes more time and effort to Israel than any other state: During the 73rd session of the UN General Assembly (2018-2019), all EU member states voted for one resolution each to criticize:
(1) Iran,
(2) Syria,
(3) North Korea,
(4) Crimea,
(5) Myanmar,
(6) the U.S., for its embargo on Cuba.
In contrast, EU states voted for 16 out of 21 resolutions singling out Israel. Yet these same EU states failed to introduce a single UNGA resolution on the human rights situations in China, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Belarus, Cuba, Turkey, Pakistan, Vietnam, Algeria, or on 175 other countries.
Farouk, almost word-for-word you have typed my intended replies!
I sit here in disbelief, that a terrorist run state is not only defended but also encouraged!
A terror State that Hangs gays from cranes or pushes them, bound by ropes, from tall buildings.
A Terror State that attacks the world’s shipping and funds proscribed terror organisations such as Hezbollah, Hamas…
A Terror State that suppresses the “Human” rights of women…
A Terror State that executes between 500-1000 citizens every year, including the highest rate of juvenile executions in the world.
Is this the UN that those on here talk of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX-atfFWeq8
It’s a well-established fact, that UN member states disproportionately attack Israel, especially those who have a diabolical record on human rights!
Israel, which is nearly 25% Muslim, Druze…by population, has never had any agenda outside of its borders.
Its Knesset, Defence Force, Health Sector, Judiciary…are all represented by Muslim, Druze…professionals/workers.
Israel is less than perfect, but to call it apartheid, terrorist, illegitimate…is beyond the realms of reason.
Ian wrote:
“”Israel is less than perfect, but to call it apartheid, terrorist, illegitimate…is beyond the realms of reason.”
The UK government advices British citizens from visiting Iran, but not agaisnt Israel . I wonder why that is?
@Ian – Quote:
“I sit here in disbelief, that a terrorist run state is not only defended but also encouraged!”
I have neither defended Iran or encouraged it and to say otherwise is utterly wrong. Disagree by all means but at least keep some accuracy. My whole effort has been to discuss the arbitrary reneging of an international treaty by the USA. Its that simple and its that factual. Iran was NOT in any way in breach of the terms of that Treaty. Now it may well have been involved in other stuff but no one really knows and if you believe everything that comes out of the USA then you aren’t as bright as I actually believe you are Ian.
Now it appears it is YOU defending and encouraging the USA and Israel to arbitrarily act as they please outside the rule of law and good order. This is the 21st century and surely we do business better than we did in the 1930s or the 1800s?
Trump is playing to his home audience and screw everyone else apparently. He has every right to look after the USA but I would suggest creating a dangerous situation unnecessarily in the Middle East is rather naive at best and possibly downright stupid especially as China and Russia are directly involved. Trump is quite possibly doing what all politicians do when needed and that is to distract attention by starting a war. If he is then God help us all. The US military will love it – more $ and more $. Of course the USA doesn’t care about oil supply as it is self sufficient but sadly also appears to not care what damage it does to its allies like the UK who have a great interest in freedom of oil supplies. I hope we steer well clear of any conflict with anyone in the Middle East in support of the USA. Iraq and Afghanistan remind us what happens when the USA goes to war and we follow blindly.
Who are you talking about Ian, Saudi Arabia?
@Ian – OK so my gentle reminder didn’t work… So lets be very clear then shall we? You drag in all the surrounding superfluous comments to build a case against Iran. And in doing so you missed this comment of mine:
“I am no defender of Islam or the Iranians who are without doubt trouble makers but then so are Israel, Syria and the Saudis in different ways. No one has clean hands in the Middle East.”
So we are sort of on the same mindset but I do have to part company as regards the simple matter of this Treaty. Now if it is indeed ‘flawed’ then the 5 most powerful and influential countries in the world screwed up somewhat. And if it is flawed then the parties usually sit round a table and talk the issued through. But not this time apparently. No the USA just picks up its ball and says we aren’t playing any more. Well that makes the USA in default not Iran. And lets also remind ourselves (gently or whatever) that the other 4 countries / bodies are still standing by that treaty. So the USA is acting against its own allies, China and Russia.
The utter monumental stupidity of US Foreign Policy yet again will only be brought home when Iran does something equally stupid in payback ….
I will avoid getting into a debate on Israel as they are not part of this treaty.
Chris H wrote:
No the USA just picks up its ball and says we aren’t playing any more. Well that makes the USA in default not Iran
The US has stated that Iran isn’t playing ball regards the 2015 deal. Iran says it is.
In July 2015, Iran had almost 20,000 centrifuges. Under the JCPOA, it was limited to installing no more than 5,060 of the oldest and least efficient centrifuges at Natanz until 2026 .
if that is the case, how is Iran able to state only the otherday that it will be able to breach its Enriched uranium holdings within 10 days
@farouk – I have been noting your comments with interest but to help me could you please provide verifiable sources for the ‘20,000 centrifuges’? And please no Facebook or Twitter. Thank you.
Now on the one hand you happily accept without question what the USA says about Iran not doing X, Y and Z. To which I would reply in that time honoured response of a certain lady “Well they would say that wouldn’t they?” You seem immune to the possibility that the USA is deliberately cranking up the rhetoric to justify its breach of an International Treaty.
You then assume what the Iranians say is also correct “that it will be able to breach its Enriched uranium holdings within 10 days”. How do we know that is a) true and b) not more rhetoric in this war of words with the USA.
Again what no one seems to understand is that Iran was not in any breach of that treaty as verified by independent assessors. You say they were but offer no sources. So all this very dangerous situation is entirely down to US Foreign policy and nothing more.
Again I hope we just stand back if it becomes a shooting war and say to Trump ‘Off you go Donald. Be careful out there’. Sort of like Reagan said to Maggie in ’82. What goes round comes round.
Chris H wrote:
” I have been noting your comments with interest but to help me could you please provide verifiable sources for the ‘20,000 centrifuges’?”
Of course, Google:
Iran nuclear deal: Key details
The top result should be the BBC article dated 11th June 2019 you’ll find what I cut and pasted under
Uranium enrichment
Now on the one hand you happily accept without question what the USA says about Iran not doing X, Y and Z.
Actually I glean a lot more from sites such as:
Oryx
Joseph Dempsey
The Guardian
East Pendulum
Lost Weapons
Cᴀʟɪʙʀᴇ Oʙsᴄᴜʀᴀ
monitoring
I then digest what I have taken in and come to my own conclusions. Oh I fully understand and accept that the US has its own agenda. Just as the UK has.
Have fun, I’m off to the gym
@farouk – well yes I am glad you quoted the BBC because I had already read that report and to summarise it says is that Iran WAS respecting terms of that Treaty, there is no doubt as you say and indeed the IAEA saw no reason to doubt Iran’s position. The BBC quotes:
“The agency’s director-general, Yukiya Amano, said the report concluded that until 2003 Iran had conducted “a co-ordinated effort” on “a range of activities relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device”. Iran continued with some activities until 2009, but after that there were “no credible indications” of weapons development”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-33521655
This is exactly why I was sure Iran were acting in accordance with the Treaty and therefore believe the USA’s unilateral withdrawal is totally illegal and its imposition of sanctions (and the associated attacks on UK firms trading legally with Iran) is fundamentally wrong.
The United States never ratified the agreement as a Treaty hence why it is always referred to as the “Iran Nuclear Agreement” or “Iran Nuclear Deal”. This is because it never would have made it through the Senate as all Treaties are required in order to bind the United States.
The Nuclear Deal never rose beyond the legal status of a Executive Agreement in the US. Which can be terminated at will by the President or the Senate for any reason.
Even had it passed the Senate it could be nullified by any following Senate. It’s almost as if the Founders distrusted foreigners and provided many ways for the United States to extricate itself from agreements it did not like.
All that matters is the relevant legal authority (the President in this case) determined that Iran was in violation of the agreement and therefore could be voided with a pen and phone. Nothing “illegal” about it under American Law. International law is as meaningless as it is nonexistent and unenforceable.
As for UK and EU companies trading with Iran they simply have a choice trade with Iran or trade with America. I will leave you to determine who has more money and the ability to be more vindictive when it is defied.
@Elliott – So basically in all bar your last paragraph what you are saying is that no country should ever trust the USA to keep to its side of a bargain / treaty / agreement / deal / whatever? OK we get that and actually supports my feelings about the USA in general and this action in particular. Whether its ‘legal’ or not in Wyoming, Omaha or Alaska means diddley squat mate. Iran, the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, Germany and the EU signed an agreement. Period. One has reneged on that agreement. The USA. And in doing so has stabbed all those others in the back including 3 of its closest NATO allies.
Way to go Yanks ….
As to your last comment well right there you show the arrogance only Americans show when any American action is criticised. You forget (conveniently) that the ‘deal’ (or whatever you choose to call it today) was not a bilateral agreement in any way shape or form. And whether you like it or not International Law does prevail and has various bodies to enforce it. Under that agreement UK and other national companies were, and remain, free to trade with Iranian companies and Iran finally had access to over $100 Bn of its OWN money that the US had embargoed (and kept the interest of course). Basically you are saying the USA are the big boys on the block and we will do what you say ‘or else’? YOU are threatening US? Well screw you Pal. We keep our word, we honour our allies and we respect others freedoms.
Sadly the USA has demonstrated the bully boy traits before and come a cropper (Vietnam instructs) and very sadly now the USA led by Trump has again demonstrated those worst traits of American behaviour which you just exemplified. Just remember the UK is one of your few International friends, has been your biggest and often ONLY ally in times of need and our trade is about balanced. I hope someone in high places in the UK is telling Trump if you go to war don’t think we will be with you because we still have an agreement with Iran and they are not in breach. And then you can fight China and Russia as well because you lot shafted them as well as us. With the rest of us standing back and watching. Just remember the last war the USA won on its own was against Dominica in 1916 ….
Oh wait … Trump just bottled it …. Well well!
1st rule never trust ANY country to do something IT does NOT view in their own interest. The oft proclaimed International Law has no bodies to enforce itself which the United States is a party to except debatably the Security Council on which the US has a veto. There are no judges to issue writs of injunction or warrants of arrest based on international law, nor are there police to carry them out within the United States.
Second Wyoming and Alaska are member States within the Union while Omaha is a city. What is legal there actually means quite a bit in order for an act of government to be fully given force it must be legal ie passed or ratified by the relevant house of Congress a name for whose is “lawmaker”. The Iran Deal was not.
Iran Nuclear Deal is not my or Trumps term but the term used by Obama’s State department and has been the term for more than 4 years. Ever since they realized the Senate wouldn’t give it the time of day. Never expect a deal to last if more than half the Senate despises it and is waiting for the first chance to kill it. Unless of course you believe May’s Deal was magically in legal force because it was negotiated and could never be repudiated by successor government or parliament.
As for the US threatening economic retaliation against firms who do not accede to it’s policy? That has been the preferred policy of the US since the Founding.
On keeping your word and honoring allies and respecting freedoms? Don’t make me laugh, the UK does what is expedient same as everyone else.
As for the US being a bully during Vietnam? Their at the request of the duly constituted legal government of the Republic of Vietnam. The United States was actually very restrained with it’s NATO allies in the period. We could have just pulled our troops out of Europe and sent them to Vietnam saved a few million draft notices over the decade and told Brezhnev to have a nice time.
flawed maybe…..but at least bought time to figure out other solutions and not trying to push Iran over the precipice
I have a certain sympathy for that thinking since it simply cannot be disproved as a very real danger. Which raises the question as to why a belligerent President who talks big on threats has convinced his support that under him the US is withdrawing from the very overseas adventures that talk of his would realistically require to back it up, while dissolving the very alliances that his predecessors worked so hard to build and maintain.
Like our own version Boris, it has a lot to do with solving the immediate short term problem (ie getting elected) without real concern for the ongoing implications you need to sort later that contradict your previous statements and promises. You can only get away with that a limited number of times (as the old adage goes re fooling the people) while such leaders feeding their unlimited ambitious are convinced of their immortal ability to do so it seems. Something has to give and likely eventually the lottery of it all means not in a good way.
@Spyinthesky – Once again pretty much calling it right. Trump is feeding a domestic political beast that will eventually eat him when he fails. I am not sure any other POTUS ha managed to fall out with so many other countries in such a short time and this will damage US relations abroad for a very long time.
As for BoJo? Despite my being a fervent Brexiteer and an ex Tory voter I hope Hunt wins as he looks the part, has served in high office for a long time, has been loyal to party and PM and had a commercial life before politics. We do not need a Trump Mk II here at this point in our history.
Agreed. Good post.
Sorry guys – please remember that all the agreement did was let Iran fund Hezbollah and Huti’s. Iran has not once renounced its aim to wipe out Israel. I am afraid it is Munich Conference Mk 2. You all sound like Neville Chamberlain – “PEACE IN OUR TIME!”
Steve and Ian
on the other side of the coin for 20ish years since the revolt, the US and Israel have have wanted to wipe out Iran.
It works both ways you can’t threaten you way out of a war and you also can’t appease your way out either.
But I can see both points, we didn’t like it in the middle of the Cold War states started supplying the IRA with weapons and we all know which countries did with or without their govenments knowledge. So I can see why Israel aren’t happy. But I can also see why Iran feel threatened when the US supply funds and weaponry to a state that they deem has intent on wiping them out with nuclear weapons.
If the deterrent effect works so well you have to understand why other nations whether supposededly “Rogue” or not would like to have that deterrents protection.
Just to up the ante a bit, Israel are developing stealthy conformal fuel tanks with Lockheed Martin. These will extend the range of their F35s so they can reach Tehran. Hmm, undetectable aircraft with nukes. Iran better be careful with what they’re doing near the Golan Heights.
Longtime – seeing as you suggest the supply of Weapons have a guess who supplied Weaponry to Iran during its long and bloody war with Iraq ? Also you suggest that Israel has intent to wipe Iran out – have you any proof of that especially seeing as the reverse is true ?.
No need for me to comment after that Chris, my thoughts exactly.
Chris H wrote:
“”Iran was in full compliance with the terms of that Treaty and was shown by independent inspectors to be so.””
Actually that is debatable. Iran has been renegading on the deal by testing ballistic missiles. Also the claim earlier this week that Tehran would surpass its limits on high grade uranium after supposedly getting rid of most of its centrifuges points in the direction of a surreptitious nuclear program.
Whilst not part of the above deal. Iran has been caught spying in Germany, running hit squads in Denmark,Belgium and Germany and of stock piling 3 tonnes of explosives in London found in 2015 all of which the Europeans have overlooked in which to keep the deal alive. Then there is how of late Iran has been arresting dual citizens as of 2017 they had picked up 30, of which 19 were European. All of which points in the direction of controlling any future European responses.
These past few months have also revealed a huge propaganda program funded by iran. This has been exposed in the US Canada and Spain .
Facebook, Twitter and Snapchat have all this past month revealed they have deleted thousands of fake accounts which have promulgated misinformation regards the West, but primarily the US and Israel.
Whilst it is fashionable to dig at POTUS, he and his administration have been the only ones willing to call a shape a spade regards a regime which is guilty of exporting its intolerance around the world. and lets be honest here, the US response to numerous belligerent actions has been most restrained. which kind of explains why Iran has been upping the ante:
Car bombs in Saudi Arabia
Numerous missile attacks in Iraq
Missile attacks on Saudi Arabia (one last night at a power station)
The bombing of the Tankers.
(Regards the last two attacks, how many people heard that the crews were rescued by passing ships, which were then surrounded by Iranian forces who demanded the crews were handed over. One did, the other asked the USS Bainbridge for help)
Well said
Indeed the implications of Trumps behaviour generally will only likely be fully felt after he has gone at which point that damage will inevitably be blamed by he and his PR machine as ‘look what happens when I’m not around’. Typical business practice especially in the US being applied to the World political stage. Truly baffling is his view that such measures will work against a regime like Iran who are not only mad, have an inate self destruct fervor that’s totally unprecictable and most dangerous have serious weaponry in a vital spot for the west that can have serious implications for all our economies. This of course in an environment where one of the President’s prime popularity points is the claim that he will no longer tie the US into foreign wars and unending engagements.
His whole policy is based on verbal and implied threats with no real desire to back them up militarily and no support from its allies (except a mad UK PM perhaps) and Iran knows that. So it will, like his efforts in Korea be all about saving face and while boasting mythical achievement actually kicking it into the long grass to be forgotten while he mouths off on another subject. Except the Iranians will likely go chasing him to totally humiliate the US and then what happens if he is pushed down a dead end where even his manic fans can’t be fobbed off by smoke and mirror policies any longer? Doesn’t bear thinking about when you can imagine all his enemies start to take advantage in such a scenario of a wounded poodle. Running Dodgy failing casinos and threatening bankrupt municipal authorities really don’t even start to prepare him for such threats.
The US never ratified the treaty, so it has reneged on nothing.
@David E Flandry – Ah so thats OK then. The USA can make ‘deals’, reach ‘agreements’ or ‘shake hands’ on a way forward and they can walk away any time they like.
I wondered why very few people trust Americans … Thanks for clarifying that.
Of course I bet the other parties to that ‘deal’ (China, Russia, UK, Germany, France, the EU and Iran) all thought there was a ‘deal’ / ‘agreement’ / whatever. Indeed the UK is still committed to it and having meetings with the Iranian Government as we write …
And by the way – you don’t have to have a Treaty or have it ratified to renege on something. People gave their word, shook hands and signed papers. Everyone bar the USA has kept to the terms agreed especially Iran. When you walk way from THAT you are reneging.
Well… mid to late 20th century weaponry maybe
Well I’m off to my garage to dig out my desert issue kit, my mrs could do with another OP bonus.
BV
Don’t forget the factor 50
You will need it…its a balmy 43 degs today where I am in the Gulf…I have sunfactor Overalls on and am still getting burnt!
As long as you aren’t planning to get there by Emirates or Etihad.
it seems it was actually a BAMS-D not a triton, as the first triton deployment will be to guam…. not that theres really much difference, as it basically is a triton.
Interesting round of comments, thank you gentlemen
If the US drone breached Iranian airspace, couldn’t Iran have sent an interceptor jet to escort the drone out?
I think that the US was wrong to withdraw from the Iran nuclear deal when there was no breach and they have been very provocative towards Iran. But i think Iran is not helping itself if it starts openly shooting down unarmed drones. At least in yemen it is done through proxies, but this time it is not. I fear that by doing this Iran is going to force neutral parties like the EU to take sides. OFC it will be on the US side. But i do not want any EU country sucked into some bullshit conflict with Iran to serve Israeli and Saudi interests. I am ok if they support resolutions at the UN, but let the US and its isralei and saudi alies do the heavy lifting. Article 5 is not relevant, just like it was not for the Argentenian invasion in the Falklands.
Personally we need to move away from fossil fuels as quickly as possible and not be dependent/involved in the quagmire that is the middle east. I think they are all shits on all sides and i don’t want us to pick up the tab for their mess! As far as i am concerned let them fight it out amongst themselves, i couldn’t care less about any of them.
Gandalf wrote:
“But i do not want any EU country sucked into some bullshit conflict with Iran to serve Israeli and Saudi interests.
The EU has its eyes on Iran regards exports which is why it has remained silent on:
1) Arrests and holding of European/Iranian (dual citizens) for political gain.
2) Death teams inside Europe (arrests in Denmark/Belgium)
3) Spying inside Europe (Germany)
5) Support for terrorism inside Europe
(looks at the cover up of the 3 tonne find of Hezballah explosive in North London revealed last week which the Uk Gov remained silent on in which to keep the nuke deal alive)
As evil as people think that Israel and SA are, they aren’t threatening death and destitution on Iran. We can’t say the same for Iran can we.
Remind me how many Saudi nationals were on those planes on 9/11? OBL was part of which royal family?
Saudis have been funding terrorist groups across the globe for years, not to mention all the madrasas they fund acroos the globe to spread their radical islamist views. Saudi is the motherland of salafists, wahhabism and all that garbage!
They played a significant role in the situation in Syria by funding radical groups like ISIS, yet have not taken any refugees! Yet somehow europe should take them and should assume responsibility?
We can even go as far back as Boznia when they were funding islamist groups during the breakup of Yugoslavia!
Iran in comparison is an amateur by backing Hezbollah, whose main reason is the palestinian cause (although in recent times it seems they have been involved in regional conflicts in syria and yemen, i guess they are learning from the Saudi playbook!)
Anyway there are no good guys out there, they are all fighting for regional power and i don’t want Europe to fight their wars. MBS and the ayatollahs are all shits, let them all rot in hell as far as i am concerned
Gandlaf.
The subject in discussion is the EU and Iran as pointed out by your quote:
““But i do not want any EU country sucked into some bullshit conflict with Iran to serve Israeli and Saudi interests.”
The last i looked 9/11 was 18 years ago and not part of the subject thread
No the subject is the Iranian shooting down of a US drone. This inevitably involves key regional players like Israel and Saudi, as well as having ramifications for Europe. So stop trying to lobby support for action against Iran to serve the direct interests of Saudi and Israel, which have been trying to stir up trouble with Iran for years. They seem to have succeded in lobbying the Trump administration, I hope Europe will be smarter and not get sucked in
Gandalf wrote:
No the subject is the Iranian shooting down of a US drone.
1) Maybe you should take a bit of your own advice then
2) Where do I lobby for war No seriously. point out exactly where i did so. I never have. and I am calling you out on that.
Obviously you fail to see the bigger picture and only seem to focus on Iran’s trangressions, which are not related to this direct incident. So i find it hypocrytical when you talk about iranin activities in germany or north london, yet take umbrage when i am trying to point out what is at stake geopolitically with this incident and its possible outcomes
I am not pushing an Iranian or Saudi/Israel agenda, i think they all suck. I am merely interested in Europe’s interest unlike you who seem hellbent on towing the Israel/Saudi line and blaming Iran!
Gandalf wrote:
Obviously you fail to see the bigger picture
What you mean the continuation of the Sunni/Shia divide which has been ongoing for the past 1300 years. This came to a head in 1980 when Iraq funded by the Gulf states decided to do something about those pesky Persians .
Since then, Iran has gone out of its way to drum up trouble in Shia areas of:
Bahrain
Yemen
Saudi Arabia
Iraq
Lebanon
Nigeria
Ghana
The Iranian missile plan isn’t about Israel, its about combating Sunni Islam, but the Mullahs use Israel so as not to ostracise the umma.
“unlike you who seem hellbent on towing the Israel/Saudi line and blaming Iran!
Actually I thought i was stating the facts, with actual evidence , something a lot of posters on here aren’t doing.
“Actually I thought i was stating the facts, with actual evidence , something a lot of posters on here aren’t doing.”
Are you implying that what i have said is factually incorrect? Please feel free to point out where i am wrong instead of unsubstantiated accusations
The USA is a horrendous warmonger is completely evidenced.
Why it is a horrendous warmonger is a harder question.
Education is a psychological need. That’s not generally intuitive.
Any culture has a hegemony over what individuals in the culture are taught and believe.
Ultimately the USA gets to be a horrendously immoral force in the world since all modern cultures accept that modern societies rely on ruling-class deceive the working-classes.
Immoral people control the perceptions of innocents and truth them into immoral people who believe they are moral.
For a country to have an immoral war economy while the people believe they are ‘good’, takes a singular layer of globally accepted psychological coercion.
Nation-states are basically fancied-up mafias, and so they don’t call each other out.
We get to have a trillion dollar a year military that kills innocents, creates terrorists who hate the USA and attack working-class people, and the only service of the war economic is towards corporate profits.
It’s possible because working-class Americans are kept perpetually under-developed, morally and intellectually.
You have attained full retard.
Also love the crowning yourself a moral arbiter.
You attack the the Nation State for no other reason than you are in all likelihood a Marxist.
With no Nation State there is no Law & Order, no society, no real freedom in the end. As you would simply be trying to eat and survive. Comparing them to mafias is an insult to your ancestors.
If people like you were deciding on the education of my children and grandchildren I would rather they remain ignorant.
Somehow the United States is attacked and it is a warmonger. Let me guess the the civilian massacring terrorists are just misunderstood also?
@Elliott Another Fox News spoonfed puppet. Cannot think for himself or do any research on the subject, instead obeys and accepts any false-flag lies the government says. Sheep?
Da, Comrade. The Central Committee agrees with you.
Why then do countries continue to request the help of America if America is so evil? lol
@dan What countries do you speak of exactly? Over course of history, America has tried to inadvertently or covertly topple 72 different governments around the world that would not bow to it. Open some history books and educate yourself.
Going back to this incident. How is removing, rescuing and putting out the fire amount to evidence proving Iran was responsible for the explosion? This is a complete red-herring. The same could be said about how conveniently the American Navy helicopter/drone there at the exact moment pointing its camera’s at the Japanese oil tanker ship, don’t forget there are American subs there too. One could easily point the fingers at the Americans too since they have a history of misinformation, Iraq WMD’s anyone?!
Agree on America’s history.
On the timing of the UAV presence I’d have guessed given the areas strategic importance there would always be an asset aloft?
Pointing at the ship, maybe because they were watching the approaching Iranians before hand and continued up to the point of Limpet mine removal.
Just a few alternatives but not dismissing your hypothesis either.
Soon… Stay tuned folks…
Cheers
From the reports I’ve seen online it appears the drone was only flying around 22,000ft. Why the heck put a super expensive drone that is capable of flying at 60k at only 22k in a hostile environment? The answer was probably because at 60k the optical sensors on this particular drone doesn’t have the fidelity at 50-60k so it needs to come down much lower to VID something. This is fatal mistake the drone operator or the higher up who ordered such a low altitude for the drone so close to hostile territory. They should have known that if u want to fly a drone that low then use a cheaper, more expendable UAV like a Reaper, ect. Not a $130million drone that the USN only has a few of. If you’re not willing to live with those altitude restraints then for God’s sake put some kind of ECM on it like an expendable decoy launcher!
You’d think this would just be common sense…..