Turkish troops have started crossing into Syria to force Kurdish militants away from its border.

Turkish jets started bombing the Syrian border on Monday night ahead of the ground invasion.

Syria’s Kurdish militant YPG group is the target in this invasion.

Turkey sees the YPG as a threat due to its link to the separatist PKK, another Kurdish group the Turkish government been battling for decades. It’s considered a terrorist organisation by the U.S. and the European Union.

More on this as it develops, in the meantime, follow this thread on Twitter:

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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59 COMMENTS

      • How long did u want the US troops to stay and protect them? 5, 10 25, 100 more years?? Time for the EU or someone else to start doing some of the work.

        • The US are just offering support with aerial targeting etc.., they are hardly there in numbers only a few thousand nor are they clearing houses door to door in Raqaa. Over 10k Kurds have died fighting ISIS. If the Kurds no longer fight ISIS they will regenerate, and maybe we will see future terror attacks on US soil.
          Why is the EU responsible? The EU didn’t turn Iraq into a mess or start the Arab spring in the streets of Damascus. Whereas the US and its shortsighted middle east policies has only caused chaos for decades. Pretending the US is there to protect out of the kindness of their heart is just cynical. You break it you own it!
          After Israel, the Kurds have been the most reliable US ally in that region, to suddenly dump them for a trouble maker like Erdogan who said recently Turkey has the right to have NUKES is beyond absurd! Erdogan has never been a good US ally, in fact Erdogan forbade the US from using US base at Incirlik during the Iraq war. This is brainfart foreign policy yet again.

    • Because they assisted the Turks in perpetrating the Armenian Genocide and there was a element of “okay you deserve each other”.

  3. I for one simply cannot understand the silence from the EU, the UN and the ethical latte brigade regards Turkey:
    1) It occupies a large part of Armenia
    2) It occupies a large part of Cyprus
    3) It occupies a large part of Syria and is set to build on those holdings.
    4) It is on record of funding and supporting ISIS (look up the Turkish news stories of how ISIS terrorists were treated in Turkish hospitals)
    5) It is currently using its military to ‘annex’ a large part of the sea off Cyprus in which to search for oil. when I say off Cyprus, I mean all around Cyprus except for a small channel off Limassol

    And yet very few people are willing to speak out against the Turks. The Kurds are currently holding tens of thousands of ISIS terrorists in camps in Syria. If they feel they are getting shafted by the West (which it appears they are) what is to stop them opening the gates and saying off you go. All i see from the West regards the likes of Turkey,China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia and Pakistan is appeasement. You know just like the world saw during the late 1930s. So scared are people of being seen as imperialistic, racist or non PC we are setting the stage for a huge set to.

    • I think there is more to it than that. It is likely a very complicated mess of diplomacy. I am baffled as to why Trump did this and it seems he had a dodgy curry the night before and woke up in a bad mood again. It will come back to bite us as if we need help from the Kurds again in the future (which we almost certainly will) the answer will likely involve a lot of swearing and a big “Hell No!”

      Turkey are not going to feel too threatened by Trumps sudden turn of face about destroying their economy as they will either feel that the US will not do too much as they will push them towards Russia more, or they will do precisely that and become even stronger allies of Russia. Also they might not think he is entirely serious as lets face it the day before, he had given them the green light for the invasion!

    • Yes the Wonderful ethical EU. Agree their silence is to do with the the so called refugee deal that Merkel needed to save her skin.

      • And the wonderful Ethical UK, US, Australia, Japan, Canada…. Why single out the EU here? Lets not forget that the US are the ones that told Turkey they can go ahead with the operation!

        • Lee wrote:
          “Lets not forget that the US are the ones that told Turkey they can go ahead with the operation!”

          Actually they didn’t the US stated that they were pulling their troops out (A stance POTUS has promoted before he was elected) The official Whitehouse statement on the matter was:
          “U.S. troops “will not support or be involved in the operation” and “will no longer be in the immediate area,” in northern Syria,”

          Without wishing to come across as condescending, it helps if we read what was actually stated and not what the media wants you to hear.

          • Lets put more of that statement in in order to add context.

            “Today, President Donald J. Trump spoke with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey by telephone. Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria. The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces, having defeated the ISIS territorial “Caliphate,” will no longer be in the immediate area”

            So Trump spoke to Erdogan who told him Turkey would be invading ASAP.

            Plus Trump retweeted this a few days ago.

            “Turkey is invading Northrrn Syria.

            The President is keeping us out of it.

            The gang that never met a war they didn’t want to fight (and fail to win) will be outraged.

            When they howl, ask them one thing.

            Ask them exactly how many American lives it’s worth.

            I say “Zero.””

            Sounds very much like stepping out of the way to allow the Turks to slaughter the Kurds…

          • Our treaty is in the end with Turks and unless God moves the Bosporus and Dardanelles it will stay that way.
            The Kurds were going to have to fight ISIS either way and were well compensated and supported for what they did. Saying they are owed anything is astounding.

          • I think that they may be owed the right to live and not be slaughtered… I also think it is a good idea to be nice to allies in the region. After all we may well need their help again in the future (Although they will probably now all be dead anyway)

          • Tell me something, what would you do about it? Demand the Armed Forces of the United States fire on a NATO member? Ask the American, British, or European people to deploy indefinitely to places they don’t care about? For people they care even less about?
            This is Middle East nothing is ever simple and the YPG has never denounced the PKK who engage in habits not all that different from ISIS. In this world you must be valuable no President of any country has either the luxury or the right to be altruistic with the lives of their people.

          • Yes, effectively. We should be protecting our allies. Turkey were never going to enter that region while even a handful of US soldiers were there. We can see the anger even from Trumps own senators! He took this decision unilaterally without even discussing it with the US military leaders or other allies in the region. The Kurds are persecuted by Turkey and have been for many years. They are banned from singing, banned from speaking their own language and suffer destruction of their towns all the time. Turkey effectively wiped out one entire town a few years ago then flattened it with bulldozers until is ceased to exist at all.

            If anything Turkey ought to be thrown out of NATO etc as its leader is horrific. We are effectively allies with the new Hitler! While the Kurds are generally a progressive people who value equality and accept other religions etc.

          • So either war or deployments without end? Targeted at what would be formerly allied country. That will go over well with the American people.

          • It looks like the American people are also not Okay with throwing a helpless ally under the bus and sacrificing them to a mad dictator…

            Turkey are effectively a former ally right now. They are not behaving like a partner NATO Nation.

          • The US left the Kurds to fend for themselves after they helped the US in the was against ISIS. Trump will be a one-term president.

      • so you hit the eu but not the uk, Canada, Australia or anyone else. You are a fool who frequently dévalues any argument by your involvement

      • My Son has a couple of friends from China (Shanghai). They new nothing of the troubles and protests in Hong Kong. They were also amazed at how much the “news” reported on the Government and ministers in a bad light. They said there was never any bad news or political wrong doings reported with their Government. I guess from this I am just glad we have a “free” press, even though the editors can be highly biased.

      • Still looking on their news site headlines and its not there… But Wales beating Fiji is. So it’s clearly not important to them, and may be it isn’t.

        • I posted a link to the story! Very few other respectable news outlets are reporting the actual invasion either, which leads me to think that it has not really started yet.

          • I got a feeling Trevor will not listen to any help on this Lee1 and has a agenda with the BBC, reminds of a certain sect of people on the internet

    • Not really, the Kurds are pro Kurdish and thought that they knew which side their bread was buttered on. Would have thought that they would have been a bit more suspicious of the West’s intentions! Weren’t Kurdish tribesmen gassed by the RAF in the 1920s? As for the silence by the EU on the matter, no doubt that this is down to the cowardly nature of EU politicians….you must remember that the EU is responsible for all that is bad in the world. At least, that is the primary school explanation!

      • Oh come on now, why make this about the “B” word again? I think most people would agree that abandoning your allies is a bad thing. Yes the Kurds needed to fight to save themselves but the US and many other nations were glad they did so as to avoid too many of their own troops being in harms way. To abandon them again (post gulf war 1 being the first) is pretty appalling. Nothing good will come of it.

        • I didn’t mention the B word. I was referring to comments made above about the EU’s lack of response…as if Boris had jumped on his high horse and condemned it…has he? Pots and kettles!

      • H wrote:
        “As for the silence by the EU on the matter, no doubt that this is down to the cowardly nature of EU politicians….you must remember that the EU is responsible for all that is bad in the world. “

        Really, don’t you think that:
        1) The EU doesn’t want Turkey to open the flood gates and let in millions of migrants, something they have said they will do. I quote from the BBC last month:
        “Syria war: Turkey warns Europe of new migrant wave”
        Turkey has warned it may reopen the route for Syrian refugees to enter Europe if it does not get more international support for creating a safe zone in northern Syria. President Recep Tayyip Erdogan called for “logistical support” to establish a safe zone in Syria’s north-east. “Either this happens, or we will be forced to open the gates,” he said.

        in otherwords as I pointed out appeasement. Yet that doesn’t excuse the silence from the EU on Turkey redrawing the map around Cyprus. Google:
        Turkey is determined, but alone in the Mediterranean to hunt for oil and gas
        and look (3rd map) what the Turks have awarded themselves. The irony here is whilst the EU is ready to go to the wire over NI (which doesn’t belong to them) they remain silent on Turkey using its Navy to steal (yes steal) by force areas belonging to the EU which is rich in Oil.

        • I may be wrong but the words “you must remember that the EU is responsible for all that is bad in the world” were sarcasm…

        • We do not know if Turkey has invaded! We do not know what communications have been made between the EU and Turkey. Does Dominic Raab keep you updated with British diplomatic messages.You clearly have your own thoughts on the matter, but don’t assume that if you don’t know about it then it isn’t happening. You may well be right about Turkey’s intentions, but whatever they are, you can’t blame the EU for them…why even bother?

  7. I suspect we are about to see a huge amount of casualties on both sides, if their previous tactics are anything to go by.

    • Steve M wrote:
      I suspect we are about to see a huge amount of casualties on both sides, if their previous tactics are anything to go by.

      The turks have started fitting the PULAT Active Protection System to its armour. (its Ukrainian) however unlike the Israel systems the vehicle mounts a unit (think single shot shotgun) at six places . Once used it has to be replaced Google:
      Ukrainian APS to Protect Turkish Tanks in Syria
      for more info. The problem I see here is if the same place is targeted a second time, then the vehicle will get hit.

      • The more basic fix would have been to deploy infantry alongside their armour, I completely understand why they’ve gone for an APS though in this day and age. Single use is a pretty big issue I agree.

        • Steve M wrote:
          The more basic fix would have been to deploy infantry alongside their armour,

          Oh I agree , but from their previous incursions into Syria, that Infantry support was lacking. Did make me wonder if the purges carried out on the Turkish army was to blame. There’s a video of a missile strike on a troop of Turkish tanks from 2016 and I simply cannot understand how the tank commanders never mind the troop 1/c parked their vehicles on the brow of a hill in open sight. No forward deployed infantry, few vehicles under/behind /cover or even dug in. No action taken on the first strike, not one vehicle pops smoke (granted the tanks may be empty, but between the first strike and the second a ACV-15 (IFV) is seen just driving around without (it appears) a care in the world. Madness. Google
          Tow Turkish Tanks Hit by ISIS Rockets Wuquf Village, N Syria
          for the youtube video

  8. Kick Turkey out of Nato, impose sanctions, stop giving money to Erdogan and his refugee blackmail, give that money instead to Greece and Bulgaria to police the border with Turkey. Also we could get MBDA to supply Kurds with ATGM
    Turkey has been supporting ISIS and letting radicalized EU citizens join ISIS for too long. If the Kurds are wiped who will fight ISIS on our behalf?
    The Bosphorous is not really as strategic as some claim. It has always been more important for the Russians to get access to the Med, but now they have a port in Syria. Pipelines can be built to bypass etc… and traffic can be controlled via Greece or Bulgaria
    My 2 cents

    • The Bosporus and Dardanelles are really that strategic. You cannot seal them off without control of the city of Istanbul and lodgements on the coast of Anatolia.
      Kick Turkey out of NATO, impose sanctions and give ATGMs to the Kurds? You do realize the first is politically impossible and the last would lead to war?
      How do you propose getting Greece and Bulgaria to police the Turkish border? What measures would you use more internment camps? Shoot those who resist arrest? Let me guess you also virtue signal against President Trump’s wall?

      • Bosphorus is not strategic since its only importance was Russian access to the Med. Russians now have a port to the Med via Tartus in Syria. Please explain why you think this is strategic? Just saying so doesn’t make it so

        If needed any traffic via Bosphorus can easily be blockaded via Bulgaria and Greece. Missiles, ships, subs, planes can all easily make sure of that. We do not need Turkey, who is getting closer to Russia; so expecting them to act against their new found friend is optimistic

        The land border between EU and Turkey is less than 300 miles, it is not hard to police a border if the political will is there, Hungary did exactly that and it worked very well and they did not kill or massacre thousands of people doing it, so please spare me the nonesense. Furthermore the means are available by redirecting the money given to Turkey already €3 billion and counting for their blackmail . With that money we can fund solid border enforcement and i am sure Bulgaria and Greece would be very appreciative, in fact Greece and Turkey have had strained relationship for a long time.

        Why are you so in favor of doing nothing and letting the kurds pay the price? They have been very effective at countering ISIS and avoiding western soldiers lives. It’s win win.

        Turkey is an ISIS enabler letting rearm through the border, get free medical treatment in their hospitals, sell their oil via black market notably Erdogan’s son in law, the only reason Turkey monitored the border was to stop Kurds. ISIS went in and out as they pleased, even EU nationals https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/turkeys-alleged-ties-to-isis-cant-be-ignored

        • Why am I in favor of doing nothing? Because at the end of the day it is none of our God damned business. The Turks and Kurds have been killing each other for hundreds of years. It is not our affair.
          The YPG has NEVER repudiated, condemned, or even cut ties with the PKK. A known terrorist organization that has a habit of blowing up soccer stadiums, airports, and other civilian targets. Why should I care about ISIS if I am breaking bread with another terrorist?
          As for what actually “destroyed” ISIS? Bombing massive amounts of bombing targeted by special forces on the ground. Did the Kurd fight them? Yes but the Kurds were going to have to fight them anyway. So they took advantage of our generosity to get money, guns, and equipment. What they did NOT do is do us a favor. So we are under no obligation to do them one either.
          You still did not answer my question about the millions of migrants Turkey can let through at any time. The EU has been asking the Turks to do their dirty work. That isn’t blackmail, it is compensation.
          As for my being optimistic? You would charge 2 of the poorest countries in NATO with attempting to blockade Russia. 2 countries which in the past only supported sanctions on Russia kicking and screaming all the way.
          As for countries that “enabled” ISIS? That’s a pretty damn long list. You can’t be advocating bombing them all are you?

  9. I feel bad for the innocent people the Turks will kill but am glad Trump got our boys out of this hell hole. These idiots have been fighting each other for a very long time and will continue fighting for many decades to come. Trump needs to pull our boys out of Iraq next or we’ll be stuck in that hell forever.

  10. The Turks are pretty crap at soldiering, tactically pretty inept and use of conscripts reduces effectiveness. Since 2016, in Northern Syria they have been getting their arses kicked pretty effectively. However, and a big however, they do have a decent airforce, and their army has mass, and numbers, and that can be a quality of its own! The Turks are now doing what they have been planning all along. With Russian help, they have spent the last couple of years hitting shit loads of Kurdish targets with air strikes and Arty, while reducing strikes against ISIS. The Turks will do what they want, and I believe the west will pretty much let them crack on.

    However let’s not be to one sided, as the Kurds are only our allies as they are our enemies enemy, and once you have spent time with these pretty tough people, you will understand they want an independent Kurdistan, and will do whatever it takes to get it. They will use the West, as and when it suits, and anyone else who can help them achieve this! This shit is going to go down hill fast and the Turks have just begun their own Vietnam/Soviet Afghan war! Interesting to see how NATO plays this one!

    • Aren’t they flying old F16C/D models? Hardly state of the art but i guess it will do the job in northern Syria without any opposing airforce or AA threat. Didn’t the Greeks down a Turkish F16D with a Mirage 2000 back in 1996?
      Turkey likes to boast it’s the second power in NATO, since it has thousands of tanks but most are m60 and m48 Pattons, some old leopard a4 bought second hand from Germany. And of course an impressive 400k personel, but in reality its 77k pro and the rest conscripts. Turkish army is a sad joke with mostly amateurs and old equipment. Not to mention most competent officers have been imprisoned by Erdogan after the failed coup. More bark than bite

      • Who cares if they see themselves as “the second power in NATO”, lots of countries like to big themselves up. They’re maybe not at the cutting edge of military technology but probably enough to give the Kurds a hard time. Especially if their new BFF is happy to support them.

        • Russia has said it was against this Turkish invasion, so has Iran. Putin is more Iran and Assad’s buddy and having the port of Tartus. Syria and Turkey are not allies, and Russia is clearly on Syria’s side. Don’t forget not so long ago Turkey shot down a Russian plane. Erdogan is just the useful idiot to piss off the US and cause trouble within Nato which pleases Putin

          • Lordtemplar, all good points and I hope you’re right mate. Apart from the F YOU to NATO (and particularly the US) Turkey could be a very useful ally to Russia so if in the balance they thought Turkey was a better option they may hedge their bets and look to keep both onside or drop Syria for Turkey.

            Just spitballing really, we’ll see what we get.

          • Andy, Turkey will not be a Russian ally, not in the west way of formal alliance, they have agenda, we have agenda, we will work together where mutual benefit happens but with knowledge that Turkey will play East and west against each other to get the best deal, all understandable and expected. It will come down to who has better diplomats and can offer Turkey more

          • You could be right Ulya, each piece on the board will be doing their own thing. There does seem to be a bit of ‘distance’ opening up between Turkey and The West. If they have some kind of regime change, that might change again.

            Basically it’s a big soap opera really, just with potentially dire consequences.

      • You haven’t ever been bombed or shelled have you?
        Also their F-16s are in the process of being upgraded to Block 50+ standard. In addition they have plenty of helicopter gunships to provide additional CAS. Further you can be reasonably assured their rules of engagement are going to be a hell of a lot more permissive with air and artillery fire.

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