Official documents pertaining to a Royal Navy submarine were reportedly discovered in the restroom of a Wetherspoons pub.
The files, marked “Official Sensitive”, were found in the facilities at The Furness Railway in Cumbria, as reported by The Sun.
The documents are said to reveal the submarine’s inner workings and were allegedly utilised by submariners during training exercises, specifically for isolating and depressurising components of the vessel’s system.
The Royal Navy has stated that no classified information was present in the papers discovered.
An anonymous source informed The Sun here that the pub was bustling when the documents, labeled “official sensitive,” were located in a restroom stall, accompanied by a Royal Navy lanyard.
A Royal Navy spokesman said:
“These are generic training documents that carry no classified information. However, we take all security matters extremely seriously and will investigate the circumstances of their discovery.”
I see nobody is asking questions about the missing carrier bag those docs were in
Was it a nice bag? Did it have other stuff in it
Where else indeed – Aloe Vera?
It appears my squaddie humour dig at the lack of a carrier bag has gone over the heads of most people. (Theres a clue in that sentence)
Very high over my head.
For years various spooks have been allowed to remove classified documents and take them home. Boris Johnson’s flat above 10 Downing Street was said to be full of them, in spite of numerous of his chums having the flat access codes. Security staff at Barrow in Furness should review people who have access to this sort of information and make sure that they don’t have any Russian contacts
David, this stuff really isn’t that sensitive, its the equivalent of the old posters of how to strip down an SLR that were marked RESTRICTED. Its real low level stuff, compartment layout, where valves are, where fire fighting gear is etc.
I’ve still got some old documentation like this somewhere in a spare room, some from A boats. Guys take it home to swot up on for their system knowledge to be signed off or for ‘walkrounds’ to get qualified. While its not great someone left it loafing in a pub, its the Sun making something out of nothing to sell papers.
Andy, lets hope what we are being told about the security level of the docs is accurate.
I’ve let the SIB know, they’ll kick your door in circa 03:00, don’t be worried.
Thanks Andy, don’t deprive the children of an opportunity to get hysterical!
😂
It is not so much the level of classification of the documents but the lack of discipline of the carrier.
In my opinion it was a mistake to move away from the old classification system, “Official Sensitive” covers too wide a range of material, while users see it as no worse than “Restricted”
“It is not so much the level of classification of the documents but the lack of discipline of the carrier.”
No, you’ve got that arse about face. It really is about the level of classification. If something more highly classified was left then it would have potentially greater consequences. That’s why all that stuff is locked away with limited access. This stuff left in the boozer is widely distributed and really only ‘classified’ as everything pretty much is, I believe they’ve done away with the old UNCLASSIFIED level so basically anything and everything has the new “Official Sensitive” title. You used to see loads of guys notes just chucked in the bin because they couldn’t be arsed dragging them to their next draft, a lot marked ‘RESTRICTED’ back then.
Without trying to be flippant, that level of stuff really isn’t much of an unknown, the example I used above of the drawings that used to be all over every TA hall were classified as RESTRICTED, they were used by cadets, cleaners etc. The old ‘Green Card’ for your ROE was classified as RESTRICTED, submarine movements were classifed as CONFIDENTIAL but ask a Helensburgh taxi driver what boats were in and he’d be able to tell you. We’re not talking WikiLeaks here. Its a non story, I just hope the poor bozo didn’t have too many systems signed off if it was his Part 3 book, you know he’s going to have to do them again.
When I first heard this, I immediately thought PT 3 book! If it is and like everyone who’s had one, it will have this persons name in it somewhere. Agree mate, total non story.
Every sundodger I know (well in regular touch with) thought the same thing, the story has been passed around on whatsapp chats and penny to a pinch of shit its someone’s BSQ book. I just hope they didn’t have too many systems signed off already as you just know their ‘punishment’ will be getting issued a Harry brand spankers BSQ book negat signatures.
In this case it was mistaken for deluxe toilet paper
Spooks and politicians are not the same thing. I am sure the UK intelligence folk are a lot more careful with documents then politicians, who do not come from a security oriented culture.
Everyone in the bloody government has access to OS – hell, even students at UOTC/UAS/URNUs and cadet forces have access to it. It’s routine information covering everything from ROE to the itinerary for an AT trip. Assuming these docs were appropriately marked (and it’s much more likely for information to be overclassified than underclassified), this story is absolutely meaningless. Worst case scenario, some rating is going to get a minor bollocking from the boss and rinsed by his mates at the bar.
“Accompanied by a RN lanyard” Golly-Gosh a Clue!…….It’s a not-very-clever set up.
At leat they did not forget and leave their child in the pub.
Subsidised drinking for the Working man (or woman) Who can begrudge a shamefully underpaid Jolly Jack a Wetherspoons curry night ? 😁 Methinks the poor unfortunate part 3 trainee is for the chop 🏴☠️
I do have to say what arse called the media, what is it with some people, just causing trouble for the fun of it…the poor bugger who left these is probably going to cop it way more now than they would have done. Clearly it was not purposeful and clearly they were just carrying around everyday stuff.Official sensitive is pretty much everything produced by the public sector that is not for public consumption and it’s not going to have any risk impact on national security…because if it did it would be “secret” not “official sensitive”. In truth the issue is more about the internal process of the navy that had people carrying paper copies around..that always leads to loss…I’ve lost papers..it’s very common…if you need people to cart this stuff around just give them an encrypted device..it’s not rocket science.
one thing that is incorrect is the statement by the navy that they contained no “classified” information…that’s a nonsense statement as the documents were classified…their classification was “official sensitive” that’s a level of classified information in which there should be set procedures to safeguard…it’s not high Risk information but it’s still classified. What the Navy should have said is there was no “secret” or information with risk.
Totally agree with what you said. Media do make something out of nothing. Official sensitive is not like showing detailed schematics and data. I do pitty the person who left them as they will be railroaded for this.
Therein lies the problem. “If it’s not “Secret” it’s not really that important”.
Well it is important, but you have to be proportional on the level of protection…if your spending a fortune on protecting data that does no harm or if you cause harm by stopping people accessing it then that’s a problem in itself..that’s why they have grades of classification and guidelines around how you protect it.
No they should be pulled up for it – they were negligent with classified documents. This may be a wake up call to those working on these subs. He should get a right dressing down he/she deserves it. Next time it might be a secret document because folk are just getting sloppy. He should also have to justify why he took this off site and if he did why he could not have sent it by encrypted email.
It’s no point beating on the individual, you have to look at the system and why they were using paper copies in the first place..if you don’t want to loss it don’t use paper. It clearly states it was training materials..by their nature they have to be moved around and used…he was probably taking them to study up. If he was given them and told to learn them then actually what are you punishing him for…being a human being…we would run out of people in every position if we punished being a human…instead we should look at what factors can prevent the human making a mistak.
Agreed it is also about the system and learning from mistakes. However the individual has responsibility too.
Hopefully Secret and above are not taken off site thus preventing their loss due to human error.
Oh yes, indeed the individual needs a bit of a chat about…well forgetting stuff related to work and leaving them in toilets…just not a mountain dropped on them…which I suspect will happen because of all this media rubbish.
If on the other hand if it was not custom and practice, culture or policy and process that tells people it’s ok to take the papers on travels..then it’s a bit more of a serious discussion with the individual.
Because the Arse saw pound note signs as he knew the paper would pay him for the info🙄
The “arse” that called the media was trying to expose the numbskull level of military security guarding our country
None story of the month.
Agreed.
Good Lord 😕
So sensitive documents about a nuclear sub were indeed found in the nuclear sub….sadly we don’t have any battlecruisers to continue the slang with…
Why documents such as these are ‘out and about’ in public, I have no idea. The MOD or whoever is responsible, should take a leaf out of how ‘sensitive’ documents are dealt with at Dyson, where nothing is allowed away from the workplace.
Official Sensitive would not give away much of detail but it is never good when such things happen. Best practice would be mot to take the documents off site and to send them electronically from A to B and not take them HOME…
Just a bit of a none story, a group on a course did a bit of group study then went for some grub, few pints and some dipstick left course notes/handouts in the pub. It happens, it shouldn’t but it does I’m afraid.
Are you alleging the matelots are human and that humans make mistakes?
I’m shock I tell you, shocked…..
IRL this is a nothing significant happened here moment.
There is always value to an enemy in understanding any element of any platform better. They then understand the abilities and limitation of the some systems and subsystems. It is very possible with a number of such leaks to build up quite a detailed picture of the systems and subsystems.
Very often, intelligence isn’t about stealing the blueprints but about assembling all the tit bits dropped over the years in a picture.
We’re talking about BAE Barrow where the the bfo doors of DDH were left open because it was a hot day, often, right?
I thought it was to provide viewing for the spectators or even to attract new spectators?
If I remember the story, in the first instance, the union said ‘this is ridiculously hot if you can’t do something we will walk out’. Management agreed it was too hot. That rattled around quite quickly and the OK was received to open the doors.
There ever after…..
Be careful RN
Right then! Kit musters all round. Who’s missing a lanyard? You boy, Master, charge that man! One days ones puns to be sure 🙄.
Less than ideal.
I hope the culprit has grassed himself up and apologised. No great harm done but it does make you wish you were born a hundred years before.
Should the errant matelot have any grey matter, he’ll step forward and elect for a keel hauling… should be quick, pretty painless and quite dry.
The level of classification plays no role in intelligence gathering. It is the principle, the carelessness, that is paramount.
The on-stag squaddie idiot who lights a fag at night, the cougher in the ambush, the loose talker in the watering-hole, and yes a file in the khazi cubicle of a pub. All are signs of a creeping cancer, of rotten discipline, and in the case of this khazi cubicle, a military ethos in decline.
Todays Armed Force’s are more professional than at any point in our history. Recruits are better educated, it’s harder to get in the Force’s. The training is better and more professional, and the drinking culture isn’t as prominent as it once was. The operation in Sudan is a perfect example of the professionalism of our Armed Force’s. Not a one off none story like this. 🇬🇧
Anyone considered these were swiped from under a table while the person was at the Bar or getting ketchup. and the little toe rag had gone to the WC to inspect his haul and found some paper. or are just new recruits that thick to leave there Homework behind.
Why would you take homework to the pub?
Gives a whole new meaning to the word “pub-lishing”!…sorry…groans…lol 😁