The Ministry of Defence has again confirmed that the planned Type 32 frigates are set to enter service in the 2030s.
This recent confirmation emerged in a response to a written parliamentary question posed in the House of Commons.
In an exchange dated 7 September 2023, John Healey, the Shadow Secretary of State for Defence, inquired about the in-service date of the first Type 32 frigate.
In reply, James Cartlidge, the Minister of State for the Ministry of Defence, stated: “The Type 32 programme has not yet reached the level of maturity to publish specific In-Service dates, as is consistent with a programme of this size and complexity at this stage in its development. On current plans the Type 32s are due to enter service in the 2030s.”
The official confirmation comes after yet more speculation regarding the future of the Type 32 Frigate.
The UK Government had previously responded to the Scottish Affair Committee’s Fourth Report of Session 2022–23, which addressed defence in Scotland, especially military shipbuilding.
Amidst media conjectures about the Type 32’s future, the government emphasised:
“Turning to the Type 32 Frigate programme, this remains a key part of the future fleet. Work continues to ensure the programme is affordable in order to deliver the ships the Royal Navy and Marines need. These ships will be UK-built, with the procurement route yet to be determined. It is absolutely the intention of the Royal Navy to have more frigates and destroyers. The T32 programme is currently in concept phase, after which the procurement strategy will be decided.“
Fingers crossed they won’t get cancelled by a future government . The fleet needs more ships
Has done since the late 80’s
2030s may as well mean 2039. They won’t be cancelled but no guarantee they will come anytime soon. The government has been taking about T26 since the late 90s now and it’s still years away from entering service.
Annoyingly vague. Why not say, early or mid late 30s? Or give a specific year! Looks like the T32 is going to be a bit of a blend of T23 GP and MCM roles and hopefully it has good ASW capabilities. And be bold, order 6!
Placeholder ACME Frigate. Beep beep.
Ah! Alex sorry not to reply to your reply to my AdamSmith analogy. I’ve been off grid for a week…bliss. Now I can’t find it. Anyway not to worry. Onwards and upwards 🙂
No problem, I also don’t remember where it was 🙂
👍👍
The MOD should stop wasting money/resources and just order more T31, the T31 is a cheap, capable platform and is currently in build so if the aim is to have more ships it would be cheaper/quicker to just add more.
But the requirements will be different.
There’s a reason they are cheap…
Yes more ships are needed but they need to have the right capability or they will be a useless money pit.
Ther are enough pits we’re already throwing money into, Like Dew. On top of the problem , will be the design of the T83 To contend with
I think a tweaked T31 with the the option for noise reduction so it’s can perform ASW using a towed array is the answer. The existing design can incorporate this, Babcock even offered it as an option. It’s also important to rember that these T32 is going to be replacing our armed MCM capability. Having a bow ramp for USV’s and UUV’s is likely important.
Babcock already has this design on show, hopefully costs are similar to T31 however I don’t think e would be severed by just having 5 more T31.
A general purpose medium frigate like T31 is great for relieving the higher end platforms but we have need for something that can do the higher end work that is not a destroyer like T26.
T32 won’t happen. Like DEW it’s pie in the sky rubbish. We’ve got our hands full with T31 and T26. another class is in achievable.save the money to double the T31ORDER, or build another T26.
Agree , if the design is sound and cheap then build more of them rather than waste money designing a new one
Bow ramp?
don’t you want to mean stern?
Cancel it. Double the T31order. at the price per ship it makes sense
Think of T32 as T31 Batch 2
The T32 may require GT’s burning H2!
Power generation needs for directed energy weapons, drone support and silo size seems to be the unknown at the moment for ships that will serve from the 2030s to 2060s potentially.
If more numbers are needed now then add a few Type 31 + ( TAS etc).
It might make sense therefore for the Type 32 to be a new design, the trend would suggest bigger ships with smaller crew.. Maybe a smaller Hull form of the T4xx destroyer with a less complex sensor and AA weapons fit.
I think the choice is going to be between (and CDS confimed this to Defence Committee in his last meeting as 1SL):
T31 Batch 2T31 Batch 2 but with RR mission bay from T26 added amidshipsAn all new BAe T32 modular frigate offering.Both of the latter may use ‘The Cube’ modular system developed by Danish company, SH Defence (both Babcock and BAe are partners in development of that system).
The VARD 125 NGOPV design is also a possible. VARD are looking at a version designed around the CUBE interchangeable pods system, which I believe the RN are also interested in.
https://shdefence.com/the-cube/
Page down if it doesn’t position to the PR video
A better link to the video
https://vimeo.com/781407458/1d8bd3c1a5
An upgraded version of the US Coast Guard’s Offshore Patrol Cutter. The text in the video doesn’t match the armament shown, but it’s a much better fit than the USCG version. If they could automate and get crew down to about 100-150, it could be a good FFG.
I agree – looks like it’s focussed on a US requirement, but substitute a few systems (57mm for 76mm, 40mm for SeaRam, etc) and it starts to look like a decent fit for what little we actually know about the T32 requirement. (Basically, the BAE Adaptable Frigate proposal vs the T-31 with mission bay from Babcocks)
It may also have the benefit of being a reasonably simple and complete design. Good for Babcocks to pick up after the T-31 build completes.
I like the fact that it can be configured for an ASW role, as this would compliment the potential for a somewhat AAW-oriented “GP” T31 (with the addition of Mk 41 cells & the potential arrival of longer-ranged versions of Sea Ceptor).
I guess we won’t really know how good a fit it would be until the concept is finalised
DEW? fools gold, not in our generation.
Given the lack of ASW capabilities of the T31 and T45, it’s essential that the T32 is a primarily ASW asset
If you want a high end ASW platfrom just order more T26, perhaps a stretched version for a larger mission bay…
The T32 is going to be a GP frigate but it could have improved ASW capability, perhaps by exploiting embarked autonomous vehicles.
From recent posts / stuff I’ve read / watched the advantage is with the sub so I think the RN is looking for game changing tech with the apparent focus on off platform vehicles being used to widen the effective search area that an escort is able to cover. Unfortunately, the technology is developing very quickly at the moment making it difficult for the RN to determine the shape of future escorts.
Cheers CR
I imagine that the future for ASW may involve a UUV operating with a towed array, or maybe being thought of more as a remote array in its own right. POtentially a couple of those deployed from each ships mission bay in future could provide an incredible amount of coverage around a flotilla.
Heavy lift drones could then be used to drop sonobuoys and maybe one day to use dipping sonar (or maybe that function stays on the Merlins for a while yet).
As well as Merlin dropped torpedoes, other drones could then be called in to drop them as needed.
All in all, its possible to imagine quite a fleet of above and below surface drone activity creating a network of ASW assets around a fleet in future.
With that in mind, the frigates themselves stop being ASW assets in some respects and just need to be thought of as effective UUV UAV motherships
Echo and enterprise could operate a towed array, they were designed to to do it.
My understanding the 32 will be a multi mission ship with containerised sensors and weapon systems. My worry is these ships will be expected to do everything thus becoming a complex and expensive platform.
May as well fit them out for doing survey ships
Type 32 will be a priority until it’s not.
There is not sufficient money for Type 32, MRSS, SSN-AUKUS, sufficient investment in unmanned systems, etc.. Something will give eventually. But right up until the last moment, the Government will pretend that it can do it all … until it can’t.
We’ve blown billions on T26 and astutes for years type 32? No chance, might as well go for a batch 2 type 31, fitted with the systems that the first batch won’t have. Some nations are developing dedicated ASw Corvettes, cheap and effective when the batch 2 rivers start their first major refits, they could be reconfigured to do it too.
T32 may just be an up-gunned T31, using the same hull with something like twin Phalanx CIWS, CAMM launchers to free up the Mk41 VLS cells for anti-ship/land attack and 324mm torpedo launchers (which the Polish version of T31 will be getting). The batch 2 OPVs probably aren’t ideal for ASW, they weren’t designed for quiet operating and lack proper aviation facilities.
The key question is whether Labour, who are certainly going to be the next government are committed to the programme. Its a pity the programme isn’t advanced enough to sign contracts in blood with gigantic cancellation clauses before the end of this parliament.
We have to provide shipbuilders that certainty and increase the RN fighting power from the frankly pitiful force levels we can muster currently.
Can u guarantee that labour will win the next election? I don’t think it can be called yet. The pollsters have been wrong plenty times before.
John curtice seems to be the best bet for reliable predictions. But as he says it’s only predictions and things can change
Why another ship with undefined spec?Type 31s could be stretched or reconfigured which would speed up the delivery.Babcock can easily build 5 or 10 more ships with a tweaked design.Still be in the water faster than the last Type 26.
If any T32 be needed for RN, it must be on very late 2030s and early 2040s.
At this moment, man-power level of RN can barely fill the 8 T26s and 5 T31s. Similar to T23GP, T31 could be “double manned”, so there is even more margin in hulls, but not in man-power. Fingers cross that all 8 T26 and 5 T31 have their crew (of course, maintenance rotation means, 7 T26 and 4-5 T31 will be manned).
When the T31hull1 and T26hull1 come to an age of 15 years or so, they will go into mid-life refit. In this timing, at least one each hull will be lost in the dockyard. It is in this timing, need for T32 “may” arise. Of course, if RN cannot man all the escorts at the time, there will be zero need for T32 then.
Then, the article says, “the Type 32s are due to enter service in the 2030s.” In many cases, this will become “the first T32 will enter service in 2030s = 2039”, and some program delay will make it 2040-41.
The first T26 is to be handed over to RN on 2025 or 26. The first T31 is to be handed over to RN on similar time frame (depends on the Capability Insertion Period). So, on 2040-41, both T26-hull1 and T31-hull1 will be 15 years old.
Not bad timing.
Makes sense, T32 has not yet completed design , specification and costing, so given that, it is difficult to accurately project an in service date.
The delay to the concept phase output is unnecessary. Decisions could be made and designs started, or even just some open discussion and debate, but that would break the customary vacillation to the last possible second followed by the traditional series of rushed and risky choices.
It must the weather or lack of Beer but I actually think the Ministers reply is both reasonable and understandable.
Everyone seems to want to order this or that and seem completely clueless about the realities of rebuilding the RN back up to a reasonable force level with the right capabilities. But as I have said before, right now the U.K. is maxed out financially but things are beginning to look up.
So why do I say reasonable ? All the U.K shipbuilding capacity is working to a pre determined build schedule as per the National Shipbuilding Strategy and it just really beginning to get into its stride. There is zero leeway to increase the numbers of ships being built at present, but steps and investment is ongoing to increase the speed of future builds.
Rosyth has the New Venturer building and is acquiring the necessary shipbuilding skills as it builds its first ever end to end build. QE’s were assembled at Rosyth from Mega Bocks that were built and largely outfitted elsewhere, so this is essentially a brand new 2nd production line for surface warships.
Barrow and here at RR in Derby there are large building and investment projects that are ongoing, properly funded and again going at pace. For example you don’t normally get a Council to approve plans for new building projects and start the job 3 beforehand without a murmur.
BAe have decided belatedly to build a Frigate Factory at Govan which will speed up the delivery of T26 batch 2 Frigates. Unfortunately that doesn’t really help with the first 3, but it’s proceeding at pace.
So to summarise we are building what we have in the build schedule, where are supposed to build them and that is governed by the decades of lack of investment in production facilities and training. But we are taking real steps to remedy the latter, and pretty quickly. So not committing to exact details of a ship that will not start build till 2030 is pretty reasonable.
Now for Understandable and I’ll be blunt about the T31.
Rosyth has never built a complete end to end new build warship so until they do and it gets accepted, I wouldn’t commit to a follow up either !
Not only is it untried but they are using a different supply chain, so new radars, guns etc etc.
The original idea for the T31 to be Mother ship for MCM is rapidly being overtaken by other ideas which are quicker and way cheaper.
If anyone can put their hand on their hearts and tell me that they think tying up an ocean going Frigate doing Minesweeping support duty’s in a littoral environment is an effective use of it then feel free.
I’m actually really impressed by the recent OTS purchase of RFA Proteus and Stirling Castle to try out alternatives than purpose built, Gold Plated, MOD designed projects.
At present we cannot say what’s ships we will need in the mid 2030’s, so building 8 T26 ASW and 5 T31 GP frigates is a prudent move. But committing to raise the overall numbers of “yet to be determined Frigates” is understandable.
As for future cuts to numbers of ships in the programme I really think one has to understand that who ever is in No 10 in 2025 has virtually zero wiggle room to do so.
Simple reasons are that the SNP will Crucify to a great big St Andrews Cross anyone who goes near the announced programme or the National shipbuilding strategy. They will do that at exactly the same time as the Trades Unions and CBI eviscerate the same Politician.
And the US, Canada and Australia will do something equally nasty if we jeopardise AUKUS or the T26 siblings.
Read between the lines BW has committed the U.K. to an RN first Defence Policy and laid it down in such a way noons will find easy to change, without significant extra funding.
Yep,ABC I get your reasoning.unfortunatly BW’s not Minister. We’ve a clown 🤡 instead. Anything can happen within the next 30 minutes,to quote that puppet TV show.👍👌😏🤡
Actually it doesn’t matter who takes over from BW he has pretty well stitched it all up in such a way no idiot can mess it up. The RFA’s are bought and being finished for trials, the T31’s have been beefed up a effective surface combatants, contracts signed.
Its a done deal, the RN is back on top of the pile with the RAF second and the Army relegated to being a smaller but flexible land strike force.
It makes perfect sense if you look at the way NATO is heading, the Eastern former WP countries are arming up for land warfare with a an effective AAW shield and the sheer masse to deal with anything Russia can throw at them.
All we can do is add a token land division and concentrate on what NATO needs us to be doing.
Our role is to protect the Atlantic sea lanes and our airbases, plus carry out the reinforcement of the Northern Flank with the Nordic countries and interdict into the Norther SSBN bastion,
The die is cast and Grant Shapps is just a place holder till the GE and I suspect Labour will not tinker with it either.
At last. A sensible, well thought out post compared to the moaning with no context efforts.
Ta Mr M, I just get fed up reading pie in the sky comments with no clear understanding of reality.
I just remember that you don’t buy extra products based on a sales brochure. Let’s see how the T31 goes and then make an informed choice.
My guts tell me they will hit issues with the fitting out of Venturer and she will be 2/3 years late but subsequently they will then speed up due to the learning curve. But overall the completion of the class will be 1/2 years late.
But that is still a damn good achievement from a standing start and a subsequent batch 2 would be on schedule.
There are a lot of them to be fair.
There were 16 T23’s built and the vast majority were built at Scotstoun their 1st took 5 years form keel laying to commisioned. But as their learning curve went up so did the build rate and when they got their swing going St Albans took 3 years 2 months.
But a T23 was way smaller than a T31 so I’ll be intrigued to see how things go.
And one thing is for sure based on the RN experience with POW the commisioning crew QC folks will be all over it like a swarm of wasps.
T32 won’t happen. The program will be cancelled so they can justify the loss of an Albion as a major cost cutting exercise. I’d prefer to see the T31’S order doubled.
I would be very interersted if someone in the know could comment on whether the current RN recruitment/training/overall manpower planning is consistent with being able to properly cover crewing requirements for all there new vessels?
The Type 31 has an opportunity to be a more affordable force multiplier than the Type 26. Countries that have adopted the expensive (and late) Type 26 and its variants, could instead add at least 3 Type 31s for each Type 26 saved.
Canada was expected to build 15 Type 26 variants. I don’t see that happening, and they’ll eventually reduce that number to 8 or 9, and could then order another 8 or 9 Type 31s with improved armament than the RN version and still save money.
Australia is already considering reducing their build of 9 Hunter/Type 26 class. They may reduce the build to 6 and instead order another 6 Type 31s, especially if New Zealand were to build/purchase from them at least 3 if not 4 Type 31s, which they’re now considering, and trying to press the Australians to join them.
I think the biggest problem is the lgbtq situation, let’s not worry about ships they are but details…….
Let’s not have the fence sitting Kiwis (who can barely operate a navy of any sort) trying to get the Aussies to downgrade their fleet.