The Royal Navy will at some point in the next decade need to consider replacing the amphibious assault ships which are due go out of service in the early 2030s.

A report by the Defence Committee has argued that a landing helicopter dock (LHD) design, combining the ability to operate landing craft and aircraft, should be considered.

The report states:

“We have recently reported on the continuing relevance and requirement for amphibious capability, concluding that the disposal of amphibious assault ships—reportedly being considered under the NSCR—was “militarily illiterate”.

Written evidence to this inquiry has largely supported these conclusions. The Royal Navy will at some point in the next decade need to consider replacing the amphibious assault ships which are due go out of service in the early 2030s.

A landing helicopter dock (LHD) design, combining the ability to operate landing craft and aircraft, should be considered.”

The Ministry of Defence’s Modernising Defence Programme (MDP) must address the challenges presented by the resurgence of state-based threats and be supported by a fully-funded and sustainable financial settlement, says a report published by the Defence Committee. The report, entitled Beyond 2 per cent, has been produced ahead of the anticipated release of ‘high-level findings’ by the MDP, towards the end of June. It examines how the process has proceeded and highlights areas, including capability, commercial practices, recruitment and international partnerships, which the Committee expects the review to consider.

Dr Julian Lewis, Defence Committee chairman, said:

“We hope that our report will assist in sparking debate and focusing minds on priorities that should be considered by the Modernising Defence Programme. The Secretary of State was right to remove Defence from the National Security Capability Review which would otherwise have resulted in further disastrous cuts to the Armed Forces, and we endorse his efforts to obtain a better settlement for Defence.

The Government now needs to look beyond the two per cent minimum on Defence spending, and begin moving towards a figure of three per cent, to place our defence policy on a sustainable basis to meet new threats and fill existing financial ‘black holes’. Defence is constantly described as the first duty of government. The MDP is the government’s opportunity to show that it means what it says.”

We have previously argued that for the United Kingdom to carry on its status as a ‘Global Power’ and retain its ability to project power across the globe with a blue water navy it must have the assets to project its capabilities. This includes the capability of projecting air, sea, and land forces. Recently HMS Ocean was the flagship for a NATO exercise, and was deemed as being an essential asset.

The role of the Royal Navy is multifaceted, and for it to be seen as a credible force, it must match is credibility with the raw capabilities that it possesses. To put it simply, it must demonstrate a ‘conventional deterrence’ against potential adversaries. Therefore, it is my argument that the Royal Navy must retain helicopter functions and an amphibious capability – all of which can be served with a new class of ‘budget’ helicopter carriers with amphibious landing capabilities.

As part of our strategic national interest it is also important not to overburden those capabilities which we have such as our prized possessions the Queen Elizabeth class carriers which will have an operational lifespan for 50 years. This class of ship will be different.

Thus, a new ‘budget’ helicopter carrier would complement existing and new capabilities, by providing a logistical platform to deploy both Royal Marines and attack helicopters along with landing craft, and larger aircraft for carrying troops and supplies. This new class of Helicopter carrier, with either have Apache aircraft which are currently operated by the Army Air Corps, as well as other helicopters of the Royal Air Force, such as the larger twin rotor Chinooks.

This new budget carrier, will be a platform for multi-branch operations and indeed act as a command centre. Thus, the Royal Air force working together with the Royal Navy, and also the British Army Air Corps and the Royal Marines.

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Bloke down the pub
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Bloke down the pub

It seems incomprehensible that they would consider having such a vessel without giving it the capability to carry F35bs.

Rob
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Rob

You have just created a billion pound warship. They would be LHDs with well decks, expensive enough already.

Martin
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Martin

Problem with giving it the ability to operate F35 is you invite the treasury to scrap the QE class at the next budget cutting opportunity.

LHD’s are great for Helicopters but little use for fixed wings. Keep the two seperate.

i just hope they call them

Pegasus class LHD comprised of HMS Pegasus and HMS Perseus

andyreeves
Guest
andyreeves

why not consider the removal of a bay class superstructure then fit a full length deck? its been done before to turn earl merchant ships to the early aircraft carriers. another benefit is that the ship itself is already built.

Darren
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Darren

The Treasury must not be part of the MoD decision making process. It has the money but is not the paymaster general. Treasury must never dictate.

Chris
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Chris

I think this calls for a Mistral/Juan Carlos type vessel. Maybe wack a ski jump on the end to have the capability to use F35s (if need be) but should not routinely carry them.

Gunbuster
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Gunbuster

Give it F35 capability and you begin to start adding zeros to the price. It takes a lot of additional equipment and cost to keep fast jets servicable ,bombed up and capable of flying from a platform.
KIS…Keep It Simple…Helo capable, LCU/VP/ LCAT/ Hovercraft capable with lots of bunks for Royal and lots of space for Royals light and heavier toys.

John Clark
Guest
John Clark

Agreed Gunbuster, something like Ocean on steroids. A ship that combines the amphibious capability of the Albion class with the aviation capability to carry and support 25 helos, room for 850 RM’s and robust Command and Control capabilities.

I would envision a class of three ships (two available at all times), built to Naval standards with a 30 service life and displacing around 35,000 tons.

The moment you start adding F35 capability the price will start running out of control.

Gunbuster
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Gunbuster

3 ships of 35K! Where are they going to berth? There is no space in Pompie with the QE class. Getting Bulwark or Ocean in and out of Western Mill jetty at Devonport was “emotional” to say the least and they where far smaller than 35K. We would need a major Dockyard/Port rebuild for 3 x 35k tonners. Warships in Harbour safety cases are another issue. If vessels are carrying ammo there are restrictions on where they can berth in case their is an incident and it goes BANG! Consider this, at one point, between them Bulwark and Ocean where… Read more »

John Clark
Guest
John Clark

Oh, let a man dream Gunbuster!

It just seems to me that if you are going to combine the Albion class capability with Oceans aviation capability, you are looking at double deck hangers with a substantial dock bay, storage, C&C and compliment ( both RN and RM).
Anything smaller than 30,000 tons will be compromised, you simply won’t squeeze in the required assets and capability.

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

I would love some combined LPH/LPD vessels but the practicalities of where to put them would need to be considered. South Yard in Devonport is no longer a viable option as they have sold off lots of the former site for housing and use by small businesses . Western Mill could not take all 3 together as I dont think the jetty is long enough or deep enough for a 35K vessel. Once the Subs leave for the North there might be an option on those berths but then having a big ship full of Bang next to a Nuclear… Read more »

barry white
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barry white

Correct me if im wrong but wasn’t the old Ark and Eagle over 35k
Admittedly they weren’t berthed around Western Mill jetty but they where both berthed a little way down from there so that should not be a big problem
They just spent 100m to get the carriers a birth in Portsmouth so surly something could be sorted out by the so called experts

Gunbuster
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Gunbuster

Different times when Safety and Risk where not even part of the military agenda.
The safety and risk to the Nuclear Refit Complex is now a factor that needs to be considered. The Sub Refit docks had to be reinforced to withstand an earthquake that happened every 10000 years…so sticking a bombed up vessel close to it every few weeks is not going to happen

andyreeves
Guest
andyreeves

portland should never have been closed, weymouth, down the road was a great run ashore, many a good night in the black dog pub.

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

Oh yes…I lived there for over 15 years! 200m from the beach you could walk from my house in your shorts, have a swim and be back home 5 mins later.
The Black dog is still going by the way…

Chris87
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Chris87

Another possibility would be to relocate ALL Frigates to Devonport freeing up space for any future LHD’s in Portsmouth.

Lord Haw Haw
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Lord Haw Haw

Well that’s a daft idea when the RM landing craft are in Weston mill , most RM units are moving to GUZ , and you want to put their ships 200 miles away!!???

Ross
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Ross

Absolutely spot on

Ian
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Ian

Right with this

David Stephen
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David Stephen

Also the politicians will just see four flat tops with ski jumps and axe a carrier at the earliest opportunity.

R Powell
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R Powell

LHDs are the obvious choice, something similar to the French Mistral class (albeit with taller hangars for UK helicopters). They satisfy the requirement of Amphibious Helicopter Carriers, Docks and Primary Casualty Receiving Ship all in one. These would need to either carry in one or two ships the UK’s 12 Commando Merlin HC4 allocated to High Readiness Amphibious Warfare plus 6 Commando Wildcat AH1, 2 Chinook CH47 and circa 4 Apache AH64. The Commando Merlins fold down to the footprint of 1/3 of a Chinook with the same over water troop capacity but Chinooks are needed for the very heavy… Read more »

JME89
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JME89

Sounds like a good idea to me, Would be even better if they branded them as a hospital ship/LHD instead then hopefully they could get the Dfid to pay for them and the RN or RFA to run them.
Maybe even chuck in a few ‘air ambulance’ chinook/merlins and other ‘disaster relief’ heavy equipment too.

David E Flandry
Guest
David E Flandry

It would be difficult to brand them as hospital ships if they were also combat vessels. HMS Argus had that problem.

Simon
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Simon

HMS Intrpid refueled a few SHAR in ’82.

F35B capability should be a “bolt on” if needed.

However, this “budget” helo carrier should inlude decent taps this time 🙂

Aaron D
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Aaron D

The entire deck needs a VERY expensive thermal coating to operate F35s or the thrust will melt the deck. I can’t see that happening.

John
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John

The japanese helo Carriers are a good example as well

Mark Latchford
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Mark Latchford

See Gunbusters post below on why it’s not incomprehensible.

Fedaykin
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Fedaykin

I think this gives UK based organisations like BMTdsl time to put together some credible concepts. Replacing Albion and Bulwark with two LHD is a far better use of scarce resources than pursuing a direct replacement for Ocean.

I think there is an argument to bring the retirement of Albion and Bulwark slightly forward so we can sell them onto foreign nations as long as a two class LHD is brought forward.

Tim
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Tim

If you want it F35 capable you may as well build two more QEs and save a load of money and time and design work. If not then use the Tide class hull and give it a flat top and kit it out inside like Ocean was.

Lee1
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Lee1

I think it can be made capable of operating F35s in some form without a major issue. They don’t need to be able to sustain F35 operations but it would be handy to be able to operate a couple for various reasons when required. I agree that it should fundamentally be a helicopter carrier though and only have basic F35 operational capability.

Julian
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Julian

Wouldn’t operating “a couple” be horrifically expensive and disruptive in terms of personnel allocation? Presumably you’d need to embark all the required F-35B ground (ship-based) expertise and equipment to maintain these quite complex beasts which if only a couple of planes are embarked seems a small capability to tie up what presumably are scarce specialised personnel & equipment. The cheapest solution to give a “you just never know” option would presumably be either to paint a single spot with heat resistant coating or even to ensure that one of the helo spots had appropriate tie-down points for the special heat-matting… Read more »

Lee1
Guest
Lee1

That is sort of what I am saying. Routinely operating F35s from these makes not sense. However there are likely to be times when having a strike aircraft alongside could be very advantageous. I would not go for a VTOL only operation though. I would make the deck capable of supporting F35s so that they could use a ski jump.

Chris87
Guest
Chris87

He means VTOL landing rather than the SRVL of the QE class. Of course a ramp makes sense, even if it totally lacks the ability to operate F35’s it would make it much easier to refit the support kit down the line, or indeed to launch any future drones that may come into service.

andyreeves
Guest
andyreeves

the m.o.d won’t finance the running of two albion class, 3 bay class and a hlp for what THEY WOULD SEE AS THE SAME JOB.

james harrington
Guest
james harrington

The ability for an F35 to land and be fueled and take off in exigent circumstances should be considered.

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

The problem is that the jet down wash from a F35 will cause major damage to a non QE class deck that does not have the special coatings and strengthening applied to it.
Is it really worth coating a deck for a just in case scenario?

If we go down that route should we include all large landing decks including those on RFA units that could take a F35 just in case?

Riga
Guest
Riga

The ability to lillipad the F35 would help to keep the QE well off-shore and keep the F35 nearer the action at crucial times.

Steve
Guest
Steve

there is a political battle to win here, and adding f35 support just muddies the water and pushes us closer to the original idea of ditching the Albions and just relying on the carriers.

Any such vessels needs to be kept as different as possible from the carriers to avoid this fate. Focus should be on assault role with helicopter carrier integral into the assault role.

Mr Bell
Guest
Mr Bell

Although I agree totally in having a new lphd I do not think this type of vessel can replace the Albion class. Lphds lack the ability to deliver heavy armour in force onto an opposed beach.
The most an lphd can carry is usually 2 landing craft utilities Vs 4 for an Albion class.
I would like to see an enlarged Albion or bay class hull with better flight facilities and an enlarged flight deck for 4-6 Chinook class helicopters.

Evan P
Guest
Evan P

A vessel that has room for 4-6 Chinook sized landing spots is going to look very much like an LHD anyway. It would need to be even larger for 4 landing craft. The displacement of a vessel that could meet both criteria would be too great for any current available moorings I believe.

Geoff
Guest
Geoff

Should have bought those 2 Mistrals from the French that were banned for sale to the Russians and ended up in Egypt.

Chris
Guest
Chris

Should have yes but it would be near political suicide to buy a warship from a foreign country as opposed to building it in this country given the current views of certain parties (cough cough The SNP cough). Sorry about that. Had something stuck in my throat.

Fedaykin
Guest
Fedaykin

The Mistral were built to different standards for the Russian, they would have required significant money spent to fit them into the Royal Navy.

Getting them would have been a waste of scarce budget when we had at the time an LPH, two LPD and three LSL.

Geoff
Guest
Geoff

Considering that Ocean was built to commerical standards, that argument seems a bit specious. I understand the politics though.

Andrew
Guest
Andrew

Any party I would think

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

I’m just happy if we keep our existing LPD for now, never mind the fantasies at what may eventually replace them.

Julian
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Julian

Agreed re keeping the LPDs but, with so many complaints here about how late the UK has been leaving it to settle on definitive plans for replacing various aging assets (T26 being a good example) I think we should applaud the Defence Committee for starting the conversation now rather than 10 years before the Albions are due to go out of service. In the past we have easily lost 10 years just kicking different ideas around and chopping and changing. At least starting the discussion now and making recommendations gets the ball rolling towards getting something well considered and appropriate… Read more »

David Steeper
Guest

Daniele thank god for one sensible comment.

Paul
Guest
Paul

In the times we live in, I think this is an inevitability. Following in the doctrine utilised by the French, Spanish and Australians to combine LPDs and LPHs into fewer LHDs.

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) so we build 2 (or 3) FSS ships @ 30,000 Tons (here in the UK) and while that is under way modify the stern area design to allow a vehicle deck for heavy equipment (a BMT design is already in place) or if necessary part submersible (as in Albion and Bay Class). Its then not too big a leap in design to remove superstructure for a helicopter flight deck and use the previously designed vehicle deck as a hangar. Rear Well Deck access can be retained (as per earlier USN Wasp Class ships) HMS Ocean is some 21,000… Read more »

John Clark
Guest
John Clark

Joined up thinking and the MOD rarely go together unfortunately Chris!

I like your thinking though, certainly an idea well worth considering

Helions
Guest
Helions

As long as the MoD refuses to seriously work on the RN manning crisis I simply can’t put a lot of credence in plans to add even more large vessels (even in the future – which isn’t that far away in this case) when you have continuing issues such as this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5850349/The-6-billion-Royal-Navy-fleet-hardly-went-sea.html Yes it’s the ever sensational and error riddled Mail. However, look at the number of days spent in port for some ofthe worlds finest (and most expensive ) warships. If accurate, HOW is the RN supposed to continue its “buildup”? “Robbing Peter to pay Paul” – like any… Read more »

Evan P
Guest
Evan P

If there is a defence budget increase, the very first thing that the extra money should go to should be salaries and financial incentives for experienced personnel. Otherwise, as you said, no fantasy fleet will ever become a reality.

JohnHartley
Guest
JohnHartley

The Italians are about to build a new assault carrier “Trieste”, 32000 tons, stern dock. A UK licence built version, would be my choice for a HMS Ocean replacement.
The NHS needed more money, but the government has perhaps been too generous & given it all the spare cash they have for the next decade. A little of that should have gone to social care, roads & defence.

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

Hi john, the NHS settlement was not in any way generous, it’s just the minimal amount needed for the system to not completely collapse. Still does not detract from the needs of defence and social care et al. Although the NHS budget has been propping up social care for years, it’s called the better care fund, where by we have % of a local areas NHS budget top sliced and given to adult social care. The government will probably up this amount and divert money into social care without being seen to cave in and give money to local authorities.… Read more »

JohnHartley
Guest
JohnHartley

I agree the NHS needed a major cash boost. I agree it needed the Lion’s share of any spare cash.
I do not think it wise to give all the spare cash for the next decade to the NHS, when past history shows that the extra cash John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown & Cameron threw at it, disappeared with very little improvement to show for it.
A little bit should have gone to social care, roads, defence & Border Force.

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

Hi john, one of the problems we have seen with historic “extra” funding is that it tended to be tighed in with either: 1)political vanity projects ( single patient record, 12 billion passed to tec giants for fuck all, no one asked us what we needed) 2)reacting to media hype about a specific (generally none) problem ( leading to over investment in wiz bang secondary care interventions, when we needed lots of GPs and district nurses) 3)spent on political dogma driven changes that the NHS never wanted( the creation of stupid sudo markets, and the most incompetent madness of them… Read more »

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

I dont agree with this tbh. 8 improved Karel Doorman style Joint Logistics and amphibious support ship is the way to go for me. They have 6 Merlin landing spots (2 chinook) and hanger facilities for all. They dont currently have a dock, but I suspect we could design that into our version of it based upon an Aegir hullform. Alternatively we could go as is and run S2S connectors from the steel beach. We have the carriers and their is no need to have anything else for F35’s. I understand this is not to everyone’s liking and accept that,… Read more »

Wads
Guest
Wads

Spot on

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

LPDs all the way they do a different job to LHD and are better for the heavy stuff. Have a decent flight deck with a couple of spots for heavy rotor for sure. But the only thing I would have over the albions is a hanger for a Merlin and some drones. The drones will be intrinsic to any future high intensity ops and the ability to maintain a Merlin will aid flexibility for deployments during peace time.

Ron
Guest
Ron

I have said this for many years. At one point I would have preferred this type of vessel over a straight carrier such as the QE. In principle the vessel that could do this would be an off the shelf design based on HMAS Canberra with heat protection to the flight deck for the F35B. With three such vessels we could land three reinforced armoured battlegroups with its own air cover, or if need be use them for humanitarian aid and convoy escort carriers if need be.

Albion
Guest
Albion

Would be great, but if only one were built, then the term, “eggs in one basket” comes to mind.

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

Hence why 8 Karel Doorman style Solid Support ships are far better, buy some S2S connectors and we have he capabilities of a Mistral but can use them far more.

Even 4 Flo/FLo’s would be worth having – they would probably even pay for themselves within 10
years

KeithSware
Guest
KeithSware

A Izumo class helo carrier with F35 optional as reported by Japanese press would be a good addition to supplement the bay class ships and give us fast helicopter lift alongside apache helicopters. http://www.janes.com/article/79695/japan-s-mod-releases-study-looking-at-f-35b-for-carrier-ops Tokyo is also weighing whether to deploy the F-35Bs aboard Izumo-class Maritime Self-Defence Force’s “destroyers” which carry helicopters and are built as de facto aircraft carriers. Draft: 7.5 m (24.6 ft) Propulsion: • COGAG, two shafts[1] • 4 × GE/IHI LM2500IEC gas turbine Speed: more than 30 knots (35 mph; 56 km/h) Complement: 970 including crew and troops[1] Sensors and processing systems: • OYQ-12 combat direction… Read more »