An agreement has been signed by the Argentinian Minister of Defence, Jorge Taiana, and the Governor of the Province of Buenos Aires, Axel Kicillof, for the construction of a multipurpose landing ship, a polar ship, and a floating dock, as well as the modernisation of a MEKO 140 corvette for the Argentine Navy, at the TANDANOR and Río Santiago shipyards.

The objective of this agreement is to enhance the capabilities of the Argentine Navy and publicly owned shipyards.

Jorge Taiana was quoted as saying:

“Today we are signing a very important agreement, because it seeks to recover the capabilities of our Armed Forces. The construction of a multipurpose ship will allow us to provide a better and faster response to any emergency or natural catastrophe.

In addition, we are going to have a new floating dock in a strategic place in bicontinental Argentina such as the integrated Naval Base of Ushuaia, which will allow not only to repair our ships with lower costs, but will also provide the possibility for the country to attend to emergencies involving vessels of other flags.

These projects articulate a working link between the two public companies, TANDANOR and Río Santiago, which is also part of our objective, to continue working in a network of public and private companies that contribute their capabilities for the production of Defense.”

 

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George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 year ago

Britain orders NSM fit for typhoons in response to international developments. Order for 120 air launched NSM confirmed…..I wish.

Gareth
Gareth
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

JSM would be an obvious move given that we are now integrating the ship-launched version (NSM) on the Type 23 / 45. If we had any sense we’d be equipping our F35, Typhoons, and P-8 Orions with it as well.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Gareth

One of my long time wishes, an ASM on our fast jets, especially F35. Would SPEAR be enough if NSM or similar is not acquired?

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago

I think it would mate, especially when deployed from F35. 8 can be carried internally. They have a small warhead, but accuracy is key plus true night all weather capability. You dont have to sink the ship to take it out of the fight. The survivability of the firing platform is just as important as the munition itself. And a flight of networked F35’s in full stealth mode using all the sensors and ISTAR capabilities could cause havoc. The StormShadow replacement in the longer term will be another step change in capability. 👍

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Yes, all true.

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

But how long would it take to deploy our pitifully few F35B fighters to the Falkland Islands. If the Argies ever wanted to invade again, surely they would do it when Big Lizzie is deployed in the Pacific. Also, after they acquired suitably equipped new jets, a destroyer or two and submarines from the CCP. All of which is likely to happen now, given the new Cold War is upon us.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

First off. That is a highly unrealistic scenario. Our Force’s in the Falklands are very capable and would be a very capable deterrent. The number of F35s we have today isn’t going to be the same number we have as this decade rolls on. And we also have Intelligence. A nation like Argentina doesn’t plan a major offensive against a permanent member of the UN security Council, the 2nd most poweful member of NATO with a nuclear deterrent without Intelligence services all over the world finding out about it. A couple of Astute boats with TLAM could inflict more damage… Read more »

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Thanks for the reply Robert, much appreciated. I get that but the CCP and Russia are members of the UN security council too. Granted we are in the five eyes and unless the Argies and their ChiCom allies are very clever, we would hopefully see it coming. It’s just a mental exercise trying to see the situation through the eyes of the enemy and predict threats. There is no argument that the ChiComs are very clever. They would not encourage a Falklands invasion unless there were sufficiently important other “bigger problems closer to home” to keep us occupied. One obvious… Read more »

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

The stockpile issue is a major concern, but think of it another way. The Wests response to Ukraine has demonstrated our resolve and overwhelming technological advantage. The difference our weapons have made to Ukraine fighting a massively larger force will not be lost on our adversaries. And also the huge economic damage conflict causes across the whole world. We should have shown this resolve and determination 10 years ago with Putin.

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Agreed. Not all of our advanced stockpiled weapons have been sent to Ukraine, some particularly nice assets remain in quantity. Nonetheless, in some vital areas of land warfare we are in trouble. The huge world economic damage has been compounded by the Wuhan Lab pandemic. (Accidentally or deliberately, we will see.) Yet another lesson learned by our adversaries. It is something we should be very concerned about. Even small belligerent countries can conduct the type of manipulative gene research that gave rise to the Wuhan Virus. Countries such as N Korea could be conducting gain of function research behind closed… Read more »

Gary
Gary
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Totally agree, but even with signals intelligence and the UK ambassdor warning of immient threat as early as 1980, apathy in any ruling government is the nations biggest threat.

We gave little to no indication we would credibly protect the islands in the past, even working on a white paper to hand the islands back!

The whole war should and could of been avoided. The Argie political ‘elite’ was genuinely surprised we chose to fight back. This is surely an own goal by the government at the time.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

We didn’t totally see ‘82 coming?

The UK Ambassador in Argentina was furiously warning what was going on but nobody wanted to know.

If we had and had put more subs in theatre earlier the who thing could have been stopped.

Part of the problem was the general unwillingness to stop the invasion aggressively as it was a worry that we were seen as imperialistic bully if we hit first and they shrugged and said it was all a misunderstanding.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago

Hopefully, today’s intelligence communities and diplomatic relations have come a long way from the early 80’s. 👍

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Just exactly how in the hell are you going to get a couple astutes to the southern hemisphere. The logistics do not make any sense at all. There are only a handful in existence. And they have more important things to do. Just stop with this

Jacko
Jacko
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

More important than defending our sovereign territory?
There will be indicators of what’s going on down there and we will act on them! When and IF the argies have the capability to have another go all our subs will be in service so I dare say there would be a very unpleasant welcome for them, plus with TLAMs we have the capability to rearrange the A/C on any airfield control towers etc that are being used in sorties against us.
any more silly comments? If not go back to your comics and leave the adults alone!

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

We had subs down south in 82. One sunk the General Belgrano remember. We definitely can today. The advantages of nuclear power. We have the logistics for global deployments. That’s why the RN is still a blue water Navy.

Darren hall
Darren hall
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

The Logistics of sending a subsurface vessel, that makes its own oxygen and fresh water, that has an unlimited range and would be fully stocked with food and weapons before leaving is actually a none issue.

We did it with less capable SSNs in 82 and with a Diesel Electric boat too…

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

Wrong! Oh dear, wrong again US fanboy!

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

A lot will depend on how deeply Argentina becomes indebted to China. As usual with Argentine finances, they are blowing hot and cold with China in regards to loans. They have already set up a fishing deal. Plus have an agricultural one on the way if not already signed. It will be in China’s interest to protect their investment. Could we be seeing China’s first foray in to Southern America? The next 5 years will be telling in how far Argentina is willing to sell itself for a Chinese bailout. If they jump in bed with both feet. Expect to… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by DaveyB
Cauldron
Cauldron
11 months ago
Reply to  DaveyB

Trade relations between China and Argentina are very robust. $6 billion in a year, mostly soybeans and beef. I doubt there will be a debt crisis because China would very much like to bail out the economy of Argentina through agriculture purchases, completely replacing the US Midwest.

Tim
Tim
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

Our rules of engagement mean that unless they do some NGS first we cannot or rather will not shoot them before they land. A couple of light attack helicopters and some Jackals all mounting HMGs and Spike ATGW or Venom ASMs will be more useful and cheaper than a on station SSN or CVA.

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Tim

?NGS I don’t know that one. Restrictive RoE are an old problem that costs lives, unless there is a bold field commander on hand who risks his career and court martial. Changing them is a must. An amphibious landing force approaching the Falkland Islands territorial waters, should be hailed and them after crossing the line, sunk. Arguably, even if it turns tail and runs for home. No intimidation or brinkmanship games allowed. Lynx helicopters and Jackals would be insufficient to counter a half serious amphibious assault. Especially one mounted with CCP supplied weaponry. The ChiComs are planning and preparing for… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

What does China get from doing this? They don’t do anything especially war fighting unless it benefits them substantially.
Argentina would need 5/1 forces landed minimum. So 10,000 undetected. That is no easy feat to prepare, train, mass, move, sail and finally land. Then constant resupply.
Argentina has no jets or a navy.

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

The CCP goals to be achieved by 2050 are common knowledge. Including to overthrow the USA as the most powerful military force in the world. Have you been following their weapons development programmes. The speed of production would be considered wartime rates in the west. They are negotiating to build strategic naval and air base on the Argie Atlantic coast and somewhere in South Africa. One in Pakistan is also being reported by the intelligence service of India. You tell me what they hope to gain? Selling Argentina J-17 fighters and doubling imports from them is part of the deal… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

With the sanctions etc against China for taking part in conflict would really hurt them.
China is very dependant on food imports and exporting goods. Whether it thinks that pain is worth it is an unknown at this point.

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

The largest export of Argentina has always been food. It’s most likely the primary reason for the CCP to snuggle up to the argies. Literally guaranteeing a market for every ounce of scoff they can spare. They also export rare earth metals. Short of a full naval blockade, sanctions would have zero effect on that trade partnership. Also, the strengthening of ties between Russia and the ChiComs has massively increased trade between the bordering nations. Other than energy (gas, oil and electricity) food is the primary commodity China receive. Now that the EU, Turkey and the US has stopped importing.… Read more »

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

What China would get is to test it’s kit agains the west and generally get a understanding of western marine tactics. The original Falklands was looked at by the US and Russia as a small scale version of what happened if the two fought it out. The US changed a lot of its tactics after the war

Cauldron
Cauldron
11 months ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Horizontal escalation. If the UK sends warships to the Western Pacific and supports Taiwan secession then China would give discounts to Argentina for fighter planes and other defense equipment. The balance would change and the UK would have to move a full squadron and other forces to the South Atlantic.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

NGS mate is naval gunfire support ie if they lob shells onto the FI prior to an invasion. But not going to happen mate. The scenario of 10 plus, 20 plus Argie fighting hawks etc has been wargamed a lot against the Radar/rapier (now sky sabre) and the x 4 Typhoons, and with notice, every raid, every approach angle has been defeated by Typhoon and meteor. Although as we all know war is full of surprises and “fuck me” moments lol cheers!

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

Did they wargame 20+ Chengdu J-10C and an unspecified additional number of JF-17 Thunder aircraft. Together with a couple of Type 045A frigates also supplied by the CCP. Possibly a number of Type 056 corvettes too. As built and delivered to several ChiCom friendly navies around the globe. Both classes are capable of NGS and missile support. 100mm gun on the frigates and 75mm on the corvettes. If the strategic naval and air base is built in Argentina. Then we could expect PLA Air Force AWACS coverage. In much the same way as we support Ukraine at present. In addition… Read more »

Tams
Tams
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

If they try that, the Chinese bases in Argentina would be smouldering find within hours.

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Tams

Highly unlikely my friend. That would risk nuclear war. The only way we could do it.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

If Argentina gets better military equipment from China and starts to rebuild its forces. I can guarantee that the UK will bolster its forces down south.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

I wouldn’t. For one the cost is already really high and as our force gets smaller and smaller it becomes harder to justify the assets there or at least becomes harder to spread them as widely as they already are. Just look at pull out of the frigate/destroyer that used to be always in the area. The younger generation was polled about the Falklands and interest in the topic or knowledge of the war at all is very low, and so interest in spending money for it will be lower down on voters priority.

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

Agreed.

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

I would hope so, but that is reactionary and will take resources away from somewhere else. More importantly, dependant on the political will of the day We almost had Jeremy “Trots” Corbyn in power. Friend of Venezuela and communists.
The ChiComs and Argies are talking about it already. The time to act is now. Combine the military expansion with opening up the much needed gas and oil fields. Bolster the importance of the Falkland Islands. Make them as vital to the national interest as the Shetlands. Two birds, one stone.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

That would take a number of years, those platforms, to arrive in Argentina and have trained and competent crews. Nope, while we mustn’t take the eye off the ball in regard to Argentina, the main issue is the Chinese buying and “loaning” their way around the world mate!

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

Agreed, at least in part.
Not much we can do to influence the rest of the world where the ChiComs are spreading their filth. But we can be proactive over the Falklands. Open up those gas and oilfields while the prices are high, thanks to Col. Putin. Turn the Ukraine situation to our advantage. Then protect our assets.
People did argue that the Falklands war was over the resources off shore and not sheep farmers. So now is the time to play the hard earned ace in our hand. Bought with blood. It makes sense to this grunt.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

Argentina does not have an airforce that could engage the four typhoons that are based in the falklands…..they have around 20-30 A4 Skyhawks of which around 6 are considered operational…even if they could get all their Skyhawks operational all they would be is targets and would never even be able to engage the Typhoons before being shot down. If Argentina suddenly got an Airforce of 4th generation. Fighters..they would have to train the pilots and develop the squadrons….all the UK would need to do was increase the number of deployed typhoons…and by the time Argentina ever got a reasonable airforce… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonathan
DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

I won’t give an exact figure. But with a quick stop at Ascension Island and in company of a Voyager tanker in less than 24 hours.

Ian
Ian
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

One of the oft-overlooked features of China’s international relations is that it is very financially motivated- if Argentina wanted a decent array of Chinese-made weapons and platforms then they’d have to cough up a correspondingly large amount of money. Either that or borrow the money from the Chinese and get stuck in a debt-trap.

George Parker
George Parker
11 months ago
Reply to  George Parker

Thanks for the reply Andy, I couldn’t agree more on all points. We must remember that the Russia of today is not even a shadow of it’s USSR + Warsaw Pact predecessor. (Which included Ukraine.) The obsolete weaponry being thrown to the wolves in Ukraine was once “near peer” to our own. There was always a technological gap but it was less so for the Red Army than their naval or air forces. The once proud and very fierce Russian bear, currently resembles an aged arthritic zoo exhibit. With poor eyesight, rotten teeth and broken claws. It’s actually kind of… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago

MBDA’s Marte ER missile is under delivery and looking for new customers 02/12/2022

I’m sure this could be installed at speed if required to do so.

https://world.eurofighter.com/assets/Uploads/MBDA-MARTEER-013__ResizedImageWzEwMDAsNjYxXQ.jpg

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Do I see an air intake for a jet engine. Oh that looks decidedly evil!

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

In the near term, a must!

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago

Marte ER is under delivery, I’m sure this could be installed at speed if required to do so.

Expect to see this again as It’s awaiting approval. Unable to supply the link 😴

https://d1a2ot8agkqe8w.cloudfront.net/web/2015/11/typhoon-marte-er-eurofighter_64665.jpg

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Worth reading, it has now slipped until 2027.

“The planned entry into service date for the SPEAR-3 medium-range stand-off missile of 2025 is likely to slip to 2026 as there are limited resources available for the integration work.

To a large extent, MBDA is dependent on Lockheed Martin’s software development prioritisation for integration projects, despite the UK being the sole Tier-1 partner in the F-35 programme.

Until the F-35B can carry SPEAR-3, UK carrier strike is somewhat blunted and dependent on dropping laser-guided bombs, typically requiring aircraft to get within lethal range of surface-to-air missile systems.”

LINK

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Spyinthesky
Spyinthesky
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Interesting reading the US testing a JDAM ER? against a ship recently I believe. Some debate about it, but seems a range in excess of 40k is possible with pinpoint accuracy it seems, depending on the size of the bomb being used. Maybe my criticism of the RAF using bombs against the US destroyer last year wasn’t quite as embarrassingly old school as I claimed at the time.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

I really wouldn’t underestimate the effectiveness of LGB’s.

Against Russian rubbish systems an F35B with LGB’s would be fine.

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago

Invincible I would think.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

And being put to good use it seems!

“U.S. Air Force Gen. James Hecker, head of U.S. Air Forces in Europe (USAFE), as well as NATO’s Allied Air Command and U.S. Air Forces Africa (AFAFRICA), provided details about Ukraine’s use of the JDAM-ER at a media roundtable that The War Zone and other outlets attended earlier today.”

LINK 

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

“There is growing recognition around the benefits of widening platform access and developing a range of Spear variants in order to maximize commonality within Spear, for both additional military capability and to meet potential demand from export customers,” one defense official said. “There is an aspirational requirement to integrate Spear 3 operational capability onto Eurofighter Typhoon, and both Italy and Germany [partners with Britain on the Typhoon program] are showing interest,” the official added. LINK The missile system was put through several major manoeuvres, including a demonstration of very low sea skimming at very high speed. After travelling a distance… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago
Reply to  Spyinthesky

Am I right to assume the extended range version is a glide munition and not powered in any way. Wouldn’t such a weapon be easy pickings for CWIS, unless launched by the dozen!
“R2D2 front and centre!”

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  George Parker

I’d there any evidence that Russian R2D2 can hit a LGB?

Particularly if it has been made slightly stealthy?

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago

Probably couldn’t hit an LGBT in drag!

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Coming soon I hope! MBDA’s new Marte ER anti-ship missile successfully completed its final test firing at the end of November 2021. Carried out at an Italian test range in Sardinia, the firing was a key milestone in the validation process of Marte ER. It provided extra confidence in the performance level and reliability of this new missile. A telemetric production standard missile with all functional capabilities and production hardware embedded was used. The only exception was the use of an inert warhead instead of a live one. The ground-based launching system used was also in its final hardware and… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

This LM business is irritating. Am I cynical suggesting part of this is due to politics and the US preferring the UK to buy US weapons?

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago

Not at all, It never pays to have all of your eggs in one basket!

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Tier one seemed to get the U.K. lots of input into the jets and production of them.
Seems to give very little for actual software management.
Block 4 is massive. Hopefully no more delays. After initial block 4 there’s block 4.1, 4.2 etc etc.
It’s like a new plane.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Let’s hope we haven’t been sold a Monkey!

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Marte ER hasn’t been integrated on Typhoon yet. This was a publicity photo taken some time ago. And so far, SPEAR 3 isn’t going to be integrated onto RAF Typhoon. But this could change.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

MBDA Spear (Not SPEAR 3, thats the MoD Programme name…). Is getting integrated onto Typhoon. Should arrive by 2025. It was a fairly quiet announcement in a Gov paper.

Marte Mk.2 is already integrated on Typhoon for Kuwait. The ER version should be comparatively easy as a result.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
11 months ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

Hi Rudeboy. I’m not sure if some of that is correct. A Typhoon will conduct test firing of SPEAR 3 sometime this year as part of the de-risk project to integrate the weapon onto F35B. So far, no funding line has been provided to integrate the weapon onto Typhoon for the RAF. Hopefully this will change.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
11 months ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

It was mentioned in a MoD document late last year. Totally unheralded. No big announcement or additional funds allocated, it wasn’t just an aspiration either.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
11 months ago
Reply to  Rudeboy

I believe the aspiration is to get the weapon onto Typhoon. I just think the money hasn’t been made available yet. Hopefully the test firings go as planned this year, and we are a step closer to it entering service. 👍

Last edited 11 months ago by Robert Blay
ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 year ago

Although Norway is getting JSM integrated into an F35 it isn’t the F35B as its weapons bay is too small but the F35A. But it would fit the external pylons, but you lose stealth.
IMHO for the Falklands the best option would be to use the NSM in its coast defence role. The real deal clincher is that you could slave it to the same Giraffe AMB radar that Sky Sabre uses.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Even with external weapons, F35B still has a very low radar cross section, and still very survivable. And airframe radar cross section Is just one part of managing the signature. It’s something of a mith that hanging a weapon under the wing of an F35 suddenly makes it a huge visible target. It doesn’t.

Last edited 1 year ago by Robert Blay
Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

The whole point of the F-35B is stealth.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

It is. And when sorties require the maximum survivability, like the first night of war, then they will go in with internal weapons only. But with external weapons, it still has a very low radar cross section compared to say a Typhoon. And managing the electronic spectrum and emissions is just as important as airframe radar cross section. Just keeping the radar switched off can make you difficult to be detected and tracked.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

Oh dear, limited subject matter knowledge once again, well at least you are consistent in your lack of knowledge.

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

Handbags at the ready.

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Stand by stand by…..

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

No that is one point…it’s not the entire reason an aircraft is fifth generation….sensors and sensor fusions as well the pilot interface as well as a level of low radar visibility makes up a fifth generation aircraft.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Its stealth will clearly be compromised.

Eurofighter Typhoon has RCS between 0.05 – 1.2 meter square.

“In “Beast Mode,” the F-35Bs and F-35Cs can mount ordnance on external wing pylons; however, that would increase the radar cross-section of the stealth aircraft.”

“The F-35 is said to have a small area of vulnerability from the rear because engineers reduced cost by not designing a radar blocker for the engine exhaust.”

LINK

Weapons Capacity

The F-35 carries weapons internally in stealth configuration, or externally in permissible environments with greater than 18,000 pounds of total ordinance.

LINK

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Expat
Expat
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

I agree the F35 will do its best work when it’s RCS is lowest.

I’ve always assumed F35 will work as part of a combined force. Certainly carrier strike will have Astute(s) as escort which will get upgraded Tomhawk which has antiship capability and huge range. So if F35s on picket they can detect enemy vessels at range and other assets get tasked to engage.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Expat

Typhoons will have electronic stealth including Radar ll which is due for flight testing later this year and not forgetting loyal wingmen of course!

“EW systems are able to evolve to deal with this dynamic and rapidly changing threat, in a way that fifth-generation stealthy aircraft cannot.

While stealth aircraft are hard to detect, they are not invisible, and counter-stealth technology is developing rapidly. Moreover, the skin, internal structure, and configuration of an aircraft cannot be easily altered.

“You cannot easily modify a stealth platform to counter new high-end threats,” Hewer said.”

LINK

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Expat
Expat
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

But stealth aircraft will also boost the same EW suit. The F35 already has a very good EW suit, which us getting a refresh to make it even better.

There’s been claims of anti stealth systems but you only have to look at 6th gen fighter designs even from China.
They’re stealthy. That tells us that stealth is still a must. If China knew stealth could be defeated it would be building non stealthy 6th gen airframes which would be far cheaper.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Expat

Stealth will allow you to get closer for now, but to what degree in the future remains to be seen!

I’m thinking along the lines of a Two Seat Typhoon to be used like the EA-18G Growler to cover a wider electromagnetic spectrum that can be updated to meet any given future threats.

April 2021

LINK

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Expat
Expat
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

I’ve posted before that we should order more Typhoons we’re the only participant not ordering more if Italy goes ahead. But likewise we need to increase F35 numbers to. This will give us a potent mix of 4++ gen and 5th gen airframes.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Expat

Good points. As of yet, no anti stealth systems have posed a serious threat. If they did, we wouldn’t be making Tempest or NGAD stealthy or even bothering with the B21 Raider. Stealth these days is a very broad term. And it is much more than just airframe radar cross section. We have come a long way from the F-117 Nighhawk. The electronic spectrum is just as important. No stealth aircraft is completely invisible to radar, but they can manage the signature across the whole electronic spectrum, IR, and airframe return to minimise the enemies ability to track or target.… Read more »

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

We have discussed this before. It is also in Leonardo’s interest to state that EW is easier to keep up to date than the airframe inherent stealth. Which by the way is cobblers. As we all know the F35 uses embedded radar absorbent materials (eRAM). The aircraft’s skin is the absorbent material, rather than an absorbent paint. This means it has a much wider RF absorbent property than a thin layer of paint. However, like all RAM it has a threshold, where it can no longer absorb the RF and it then starts to reflect it. The F35s skin is… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

How do they fix this onboard the carriers? We have discussed this too as I recall. And at what cost and downtime given out limited defence budget? “While it is known that significant leaps in the maintainability of radar-absorbent materials (RAM) were integrated into the F-35 design, recent images from the F-35C’s inaugural cruise raise potential questions about the ease of maintaining the jet’s coatings in the demanding maritime environment. Iron is a known ingredient of radar-absorbent coatings going back to the dawn of stealth technology. While caring for a stealth jet’s finicky skin is one thing when operating from… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins
Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Expat

That’s exactly how F35 can operate. It’s ISTAR and situational awareness capabilities allow it enhance the capability of other aircraft and warships its operating with. Sharing targeting information and tracking so other assets can engage while it operates closer to the threat environment. Targets then then be engaged from other assets while keeping emissions (radar ect) as low as possible.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Interesting…. regards the slaving to one of the radar types we already use there.

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 year ago

To be honest when we look at Argentina it is very easy to get carried away and want to look at Top end, war fighting capabilities. But this isn’t 1982 and just taking a few simple, low cost moves deters them from trying anything. The Giraffe AMB is virtually identical to the Sea Giraffe used on the USN LCS ships with NSM. All you need are 2 Sky Sabre batteries in the Falklands one of which can be forward deployed to West Falkland with 3 or 4 ATV’s with 4 NSMs each. If you stick it up on Cliff Mountain… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Agreed.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

After the successful trials on HMS Sutherland in 2019. The RN said they weren’t going ahead with the project. They didn’t give a definitive reason.

Part of the supposition is that the exhaust flame from the soft launch rocket impinges on the ship’s structure. As Gunbuster alluded to, there’s lots of stuff in the DS30 area that doesn’t like the extreme heat from the missile’s exhaust.

Expat
Expat
1 year ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Also upgraded TLAM will have anti ship capability with range of something like 800 miles.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

In most respects it doesn’t matter. If the F35B is tasked with taking out a ship. It will be doing this at distance. Initially it will be purely in a passive mode, where it’s using its radar and other sensors to detect the emissions transmitted by the ship. By flying a zig zag pattern, it can then triangulate the ship’s position. If the F35B has a pair of JSMs under the wings. It will try to minimize its radar signature by maintaining a head on approach. As JSM has a range over 100km, the F35B can launch at the ship… Read more »

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

And again when is this capability going to exist.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

Stand easy bud, it’s on its way!

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago

They would, a greater number of clever missiles would be very effective. As they are developing them as a swarm missile it becomes very effective. It does not actually take a very big bang to missions kill a modern warship, just one or two in the right place.

range wise it’s perfect as well.

it’s only weakness is it’s not ready and is not likely to be for 5 years. We really need a ASM before then.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

216 Sqns swarm work has gone rather quiet.

LongTime
LongTime
1 year ago

I noticed that too, decide to sprinkle positive thoughts on it and take it that, they have stumbled on a golden idea and are keeping it quiet.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  LongTime

I wonder….

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  LongTime

No they are basically a few bods looking at what is happening with commercial drones and opportunistic cross overs into the military…there is only four of them and they don’t have any drones.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago

Well an FOI showed that there were only 4 personal assigned to the squadron and they had no drones attached. Apparently they have had of the self providers show them 5 diffident drones over 13 tests…that was as of last autumn and three years work..so I would not expect to much…it’s more like a few bods going around and seeing what the drone manufacturers are doing rather than a dedicated team pushing the frontiers of swarm… The swarm potential is something MBDA are really seeming to be pushing on their own….they are looking at it across their missile families….as well… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Shows how much hype is created by HMG, MoD. I recall the fanfare when the Sqn was reformed. 🙄 4 posts…..blimey.

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago

I was a bit shocked when the FOI was published….they tried to stop it…but the journalists who got the info knew their stuff and kept going until they had to publish it….it was a bit embarrassing and a minister of state later made an announcement saying how many different drones they had looked at and tests they had gone to see…all four blokes….

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

MBDA’s Marte ER missile is under delivery and looking for new customers 02/12/2022

I’m sure this could be installed at speed if required to do so.

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

MBDA’s Marte ER missile is under delivery and looking for new customers 

I’m sure this could be installed at speed if required to do so.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Aren’t they tranche 1 typhoons in the Falklands so very limited weapon load. Typhoon was designed for dog fights and second thought was ground attack. Massive revisism going on about it being a multirole platform from design.

John Clark
John Clark
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

It was always envisaged as muti role platform to replace Jaguar, Phantom and initially supplement Tornado F3 and eventually replace that too. Hence the envisioned order for 250. The fact tranche one was delivered in AA fit was more to do with the sea change off cercumstances following the end of the cold war and the contraction of the RAF. It simply became more important to withdraw the F3 first, the Jaguar capability was just allowed to disappear along with GR9’s in 2010 with strike responsibility forced onto the dwindling GR4 fleet. The fact that tranche one Typhoons arn’t easily… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by John Clark
Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  John Clark

In the UK service but not the overall, which is why it needed major redesign after tranche1 and why tranche one can’t be upgraded as they are effectively a different plane. Mainly because cas was not considered a major need at the time. Same with the f15 and 16, it was a after thought. The era was still thinking planes dropped cluster bombs and wide area attacks and artillery provided close in support. Equally the tech wasn’t there yet either. As seen with the Ukraine war, russian airforce is incapable of providing close air support. Eurofighter was originally designed to… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve
Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

True(ish) The BAE2000 was envisaged as air superiority. During the long, and latterly deliberately slowed, Typhoon program the threatscape changed and so the platform evolved. But the possibilities with electronics massively changed. Why were the other types so specific? Weight, space and power for onboard systems was a massive consideration. Computing power became small, lightweight and the need for a lot of power/cooling the calculus dimished. Wiring wise T2 onwards replaced copper wire with full fibre also saving weight and boosted bandwidth as well as reducing EM emission and effects such as EMP resistance. So really lots of things came… Read more »

Steve
Steve
1 year ago

Was just reading up on the original requirements and i was partially wrong. it was required as a air supremacy jet with that as its primary focus, but there was a requirement for some limited ground attack capability. At least what i can find from the web archives it was never designed with the idea of it being a swing role that it is now used for. I guess because the whole need for air supremecy went away with the cold war.

I wonder what they had in mind to replace the tornado in the ground attack focus.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve
Jonathan Charles Agar
Jonathan Charles Agar
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

Think the desire changed from having multiply airframes doing a specialist role to a more one does all that the Tornado developed into. lowers the service cost and spares. Much the same the RAF moving to have single type fleets. lowers overrule costs

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

“I wonder what they had in mind to replace the tornado in the ground attack focus.”

I think that was the FOAS, long cancelled.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago

Real same FOAS got binned. Just for fun. I’d be purchasing 138 F35A’s to replace Tornado GR4 capability and numbers. I’d maintain swing role Typhoon at about 130. And purchase around 94 F35B’s for carrier strike. Total fantasy today, but probably doable if at least a 2.5% defence budget had been maintained over the last 25 years. Now I’ll wait for somebody to shout at me. 😆👍

LongTime
LongTime
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Oh if we’re play fantasy forces. I’d take your 138x F35A’s and add 24 C’s, 3 reasons, 1 proper USN exchange opportunity onto their big decks as a squadron and if we ever Cat n trap again, the experience and a starter fleet of aircraft are waiting. 2 as the USN is the only customer I reck LM would do a deal to get another client for it. 3 Why not I once suggested to DM that the Red Arrows should take on the Tornado purely for the noise of a diamond 9😁 Typhoons kept at 130 I’d like to… Read more »

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  LongTime

😃 Nice choices. The only thing I’d change is, I’d have T1 Typhoons as the Red Arrows 😆. You have a point though about keeping people in post long enough to see projects through to the end. The constant handover in main building as people move onto new posts can’t help.

Jonathan Charles Agar
Jonathan Charles Agar
1 year ago
Reply to  John Clark

Main Issue is with Tranche 1 is that its not just a onboard Kit change. Power Supply is now a huge problem and the Tranche 1 to 2/3 was looked @ as a Feasibility by Airbus for Italy and Germany.

Also Tranche 1 need AWACS support in the air defence role, and its ordnance is now life expired.
BAEs is still not well trusted in the UKGovs in the aerospace division and the desire to award orders.
That’s a Pot BAEs have pissed once to often and the Pool is now rank.

Rudeboy
Rudeboy
1 year ago

Also Tranche 1 need AWACS support in the air defence role, and its ordnance is now life expired.”

Asraam Block V is still in service and is replaced with Asraam Block VI…

Amraam B and C-5 are being retired (and sent to Ukraine) but Amraam D have arrived…

Enhanced Paveway II is not life expired.

Paul T
Paul T
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

1435 flight in the Falklands operates FGR4 Typhoons,which are Tranche 2,AFAIK they are the original Aircraft that were delivered in 2009.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul T

ah ok, i always thought they were part of the remaining batch ones out there. I would hope our miltiary spy network is keeping a close eye on argentina and would be able to deter any potential threat, but i suspect polictics will get in the way and reinforcing the islands won’t be allowed because of the risk of causing trade issues with other south american islands. Saying that the force on the island can probably defend itself long enough for reinforcements to arrive..maybe. Main problem is its a long way away and reinforcements by air could only happen before… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve
Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

If I was Argentina and ready to try again, I would make a massive fuss in the UN about the UK militarizing the area and put polictival pressure on the other south American countries to also make a fuss (they already have form on this), at the same time as moving units into place. The fear of annoying latam trade and pissing off the US would mean we wouldn’t send additional forces. Then it’s a race against the clock, can they take the island and this time no move their heavy gear or navy back, before the fleet can arrive… Read more »

Jonathan Charles Agar
Jonathan Charles Agar
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

Issue is the long Range Radar @ the Falklands would pick up any sudden increase in activity. much like it did in 1982 and was ignored. time for the Argentinians to get a task force there the Reinforcements would have arrived. and they would be made to look foolish and weak all over again.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago

Reinforcements would take weeks to arrive, the ocean isn’t any smaller than it was in the 80s. Assuming the opportunity to air lift reinforcements in is lost. If they managed to somehow take out the typhoons there (wouldn’t be too hard as not many there, could have a special forces unit land and take them out as they take off or various other non convential approaches to the topic), then we have no way to defend an air lift (way out of range of typhoons from the Ascension). If there is polictical backbone, we will reinforce before the landing happens… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

More jets including F35b and transports could be there in less than 24 hours if really needed. It would be a rush. 4 typhoons head out to ascension with a voyager tanking, C17 and A400 loaded up and head there also. Pit stop. Special forces also loaded on transports. Another 4 F35b and tanker head out. An extra tanker heads out incase of issues. If for some reason the runway had been damaged the troops there mark out area for aircraft. Typhoon, F35 and the transports can land in a small area if needed. A330 should of had refuelling as… Read more »

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

F35 or typhoons don’t have the legs for that flight, even with large numbers of refueling it would be a challenge. Just look at what it took for operation black buck to get 3 planes over. Transports could make it, but slow moving transports would be easy target for Argentinan forces and long distance radars, making it insanely risky and highly unlikely to succeed. So yes we can reinforce within maybe 24 hours, but the clock has to start before the invasion begins. Since once the argentine forces land and setup air defence units, transports wouldnt be able to be… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve
Sonik
Sonik
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

Voyager has much more range than the Victors used for Blackbuck. The A330 has massively over sized tanks because the fuselage is common to the four engine A340. Without cargo or pax, the whole MTOW can be used for fuel.

A single Voyager can do Ascension to Falklands and back, with spare fuel to offload. Perhaps would need two tankers per Typhoon but it’s definitely possible, without any complex transfers. They drag four at a time across the Atlantic.

Last edited 1 year ago by Sonik
Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Sonik

What I couldn’t find was what the combat radius of the typhoon is fully armed. If only 2 refuels each way it would be possible but any more and we wouldnt have the tankers. Well I guess it depends how many typhoons are sent, it’s it’s just a couple then maybe.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve
Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

It would require far more than 2 A2A refueling top ups for a Typhoon to get to the Falklands. They usually top up 3 or 4 times just crossing the Atlantic because they need diversion fuel. So flying to the falklands would require many top ups so they always have enough fuel to make it to a diversion airfield incase something goes wrong.

Donaldson
Donaldson
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

When the 6 F-35B arrived from MCAS Beaufort to RAF Marham in 2019, The 6 F-35Bs were supported by 3 Voyagers and each F-35B had roughly 8 refuellings during the trip.

In this scenario that’ll only get you to Ascension Island, So you’re talking about 15ish refuelling serials from Brize > Mount Pleasant

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Donaldson

Yes, that sounds about right. The aircraft do have long endurance on a transit flight, but the diversion fuel required greatly increases the number of fuel top ups required.

LongTime
LongTime
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Does diversion fuel go out the window if Argies started build up and we actually did have to reinforce the Falklands. Im sure someone in an office in the MOD would consider getting rid of a safety margin to look good.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
11 months ago
Reply to  LongTime

No. Diversion fuel does not go out of the window. The option to divert is for pilot and aircraft safety. In a time of crisis, an aircraft can be cleared to fly with a non critical flight safety related fault that would normally keep it on the ground during normal peace time training flying. But diversion fuel is a corner that would definitely not be cut. And planners in MOD don’t make such decisions to look good. Every effort is made to deploy fast jets to any operational theatre as quickly as possible. But safety is always the priority. 👍

Donaldson
Donaldson
11 months ago
Reply to  Robert Blay
Robert Blay
Robert Blay
11 months ago
Reply to  Donaldson

Veru Interesting. Just shows the huge effort required to get 4 fast jets so far south. Thanks for the link 👍

Donaldson
Donaldson
1 year ago
Reply to  Sonik

According to the Airbus website; The A330 MRTT can support the deployment of four fighter aircraft plus 50 personnel and 12 tonnes of freight (luggage, spare parts and equipment) in one direct flight over 5,200 km, e.g. from Europe to Afghanistan.

A single Voyager could do 3 Typhoon from Brize > Ascension > Ground refuel > Continue to Mount Pleasant which would roughly take 20-24 hours

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

It’s all hypothetical as Argentina doesn’t have the forces/equipment to attempt a landing.
A voyager took the typhoons there originally I think.
It has loads of range and fuel.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Quite a journey, but more than possible!

Thinking out of the box, I wonder how much it would cost to develop a suitable rack for Typhoons to carry more Meteor?

Include an Anti-Ship capability like Marte ER near-term and you end up with a package to deter any possible Argentinean future invasion.

Far cheaper in the long run I would have thought.

LINK

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

A CGI image exists of a Typhoon carrying 14 Meteors and 2 short range missiles. .

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Robert Blay

Give me meteor launchers, brimstone triple racks, a soldering iron and 3 hours. Job done 😂😂

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Nice 😆

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

The Typhoons on the Falklands are regularly replaced. The last time I was down there, we came back on a Voyager, we had a pair of Typhoons in formation all the way back to Ascension. The Voyager did air to air refueling which was pretty cool to watch.

So a reinforcement flight of Typhoons or F35s won’t be a problem.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

Interesting. I assume they weren’t armed, but if possible with an empty load than also possible fully armed just with more refuels.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

It was a while ago. They definitely had drop tanks and possibly ASRAAM under the wings. I can’t remember if they carried anything else.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

Must have been pretty cool to watch. The mind boggles how they came up with air to air refueling in the first place.

Donaldson
Donaldson
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

Typhoon has a ferry range of 2,778 km with x3 drop tanks + x2 ASRAAM x6 BVRAAM (Air superiority loadout)
According to the Airbus website; The A330 MRTT can support the deployment of four fighter aircraft plus 50 personnel and 12 tonnes of freight (luggage, spare parts and equipment) in one direct flight over 5,200 km, e.g. from Europe to Afghanistan.

A single Voyager could do 3 Typhoon from Brize > Ascension to Ground refuel > Ascension > Continue to Mount Pleasant which would roughly take 20-24 hours

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Donaldson

Are you sure on those figures? The data I found for the range was with drop tanks but unarmed.

Donaldson
Donaldson
11 months ago
Reply to  Steve

I took the figures off Wiki and my thinking was; 1,389 km combat radius with A2A loadout allowing 10 mins of loiter before RTBing so 2,778 km “ferry range” with A2A loadout would make sense

Expat
Expat
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Not to mention any sniff of something happening Astutes would down there.

Benjamin Rule
Benjamin Rule
1 year ago
Reply to  Expat

Indeed. Lots of discussion about what missile/bomb could be fitted to a Typhoon or F35 to take this ship out. All valid discussions of course. But if Argentina ever got itself sufficiently organised to consider an invasion we would just have to hint that we had an Astute in the area and they would think twice. Jim Callaghan played this trick in the 1970s with Operation Journeyman.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Typhoon Jet 10 miles above the Falklands.

https://ukdj.imgix.net/2023/02/mtveu3sx9bi51.jpg

Last edited 1 year ago by Nigel Collins
Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

Typhoon max range is just under 3k km Vs 4k for the vulcan, actually closer than I thought it would be. F35b is around 1.8k km

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

“wouldn’t be too hard as not many there, could have a special forces unit land and take them out” I don’t believe it would be so simple. Have a look at MPC on GE. The terrain is open. DSF have on occasion surveyed security arrangements on the FI and I believe there are various other “arrangements” in place, both physical and electronic, to counter such. Even regards to using a SAM further out, they have to land undetected. Our own plan to remove the Super Etendards and Exocet was seen as suicidal, even for 22 SAS, so I do not… Read more »

Steve
Steve
1 year ago

The SAS raid was suicidal as it involved crashing a transport onto the runway, so effectively a frontal attack with no exit plan. I was thinking more covert. As they will know which way the landing force was coming from, they will know where to position themselves and could be a fair distance from the run way.

The other question is whether the typhoons could actually sink the vessels without dedicated anti ship missiles. I am assuming yes but it’s not been tested to my knowledge. Targeting something on the ocean is not easy due to the noise involved

Expat
Expat
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

As soon as there was rumblings we’d get a couple of Astutes down there. Argentina wouldn’t be aware of their presence. These can hit ships and do land attack. It would be difficult for any attacking force to keep resupplied if they managed to actually get a foot hold in the first instance. The airfield would loose its run way making resupply by air an issue and supply ships would be easy prey for our attack subs.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Expat

That’s where the UN drama comes in, it would mean the gov wouldn’t send one in fear of annoying the US. In a fair fight Argentina couldn’t win, but war isn’t a fair fight. I suspect the main challenge for Argentina would be the river class, which isn’t ideal but does have a limited punch and the ability to do a contested landing, as the garrison will be able to deploy once the landing force enters into Falkland waters. There is only a hundred or so infantry there (most of the force is support and logistics) but they will be… Read more »

Benjamin Rule
Benjamin Rule
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

By ‘wouldn’t send one’ do you mean an Astute? Of course we would send one if we needed to. What the Falklands war showed was that we absolutely would send whatever was needed despite the US being nervous. Dithering by Regan and Haig over the Falklands crisis drove Thatcher completely mad but it didn’t dissuade her from doing what was right in the end. It was useful that Caspar Weinberger was a voice of sense in the US Defence Department.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Benjamin Rule

Falklands proved we wouldn’t. Multiple platforms were moved ahead of the war, as we suspected it was coming, but none were moved into the Atlantic, for fear of what the US would say about us operating in their back yard. It was only once hostilities started that the policticans got a backbone.

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

Whether the previous war has meant they would react sooner a second time, who knows but I doubt it

I don’t know who made the decision to move the platforms towards gib ahead of the war, but assume it was a naval decision and not a political one.

Last edited 1 year ago by Steve
Benjamin Rule
Benjamin Rule
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

I accept that the 1982 government mishandled the run up to the war. They sent the wrong signals by suggesting they would remove Endurance and talk about sovereignty. Lord Carrington even resigned because of how badly it had been handled. But I don’t think being worried about the American response had anything to do with that incompetence. In fact Jim Callaghan had sent a task force and a submarine to deter the Argentinians only a few years earlier (Operation Journeyman). When the mistakes of 1982 became painfully obvious the government did the right thing. Cock up not conspiracy in my… Read more »

Steve
Steve
1 year ago
Reply to  Benjamin Rule

Not indicating a conspiracy, just polictics. Any miltiary action starts with the policticans, and they have a habit of not wanting to escalate things and dithering.

Look at the build up to the Ukraine war, it was clear that the NATO eastern border was at threat and yet all western governments dithered about reinforcing it. Same thing would happen. Same during ww1 and ww2.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

The Agrupación de Buzos Tácticos, APBT have landed on the islands loads of times, since Argentina surrendered. The late ARA San Juan lost in 2017 was probably returning from such a mission. The APBT’s job is to reconnoiter likely amphibious landing sites. But also to build knowledge and a pattern of life of enemy defences. Pretty much what the SBS do.

As the Falklands are sparsely populated and with a huge coastline. It makes the APBT’s job easier, but also the Falkland Island’s garrison harder to hunt them down.

David Barry
David Barry
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve

Argentina is going nowhere near the Falklands. However, their suicide penguins might; gloves will be off for that one and the fight bitterly contested.

Mark B
Mark B
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Not sure we should order kit immediately just because at some point in the distant future Argentina might be capable of causing an issue. That said ASM capability might well become an issue due to other threats which are more current.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 year ago

In all seriousness the MOD will need to monitor the new ships payload and how much additional amphibious capacity it enables and respond appropriately.
Especially if the landing ship order is followed up by medium/ heavy lift helicopters and/or new LCUs.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 year ago

From picture above the new landing ship isn’t an LPD or LPHD. It’s an LST, direct beaching vessel. So likely around 4000-6000 tons and a few dozen armoured vehicles. 300-500 troop capacity. Enough to cause problems for the Falklands garrison but not enough to overwhelm it.

NorthernAlly
NorthernAlly
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I thought those ships has gone out of fashion due to there vulnerability.

Jonathan Charles Agar
Jonathan Charles Agar
1 year ago
Reply to  NorthernAlly

Looks like the old Roundtable class.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  NorthernAlly

The USMC are advocating and trying to get a fleet of 35 pseudo LSTs called the light amphibious warfare concept. Pretty much a modernized LST.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I think it would be monitored as soon as it left port, so
for me this does not alter the military balance regards our force posture.

Sean
Sean
1 year ago

100% 👍🏻

John Stott
John Stott
1 year ago
Reply to  Sean

💕

Jacko
Jacko
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Sorry but how on earth does this pose a problem for the FI garrison? Is it going to get through the exclusion zone and steam into Stanley all guns blazing without anybody noticing?🙄

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 year ago
Reply to  Jacko

It will approach in the dead of night, in full stealth mode. Steam into Fitzroy or the nearest possible dock area. Disgorge it’s hundreds of troops and stealthily move away before we even knew it was there. Obviously. I am pulling your leg jacko. Lift capacity is key. I was trying to allude to the fact that it could in a permissive environment land troops and armour. That permissive environment is entirely dependent upon the FI defence force being suppressed first. So not a threat in itself but a military asset needing consideration. Still a QE carrier battle group would… Read more »

Jacko
Jacko
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

😂👍

Jon
Jon
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

That’s just an illustrative ship, a Costa Sur-class cargo ship, the ARA Bahia San Blas. You can’t read anything into the new ship’s function from the picture.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 year ago
Reply to  Jon

No click on it. Clearly there is a new LST design contracted for.

Jon
Jon
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Interesting. I don’t see anything different when I click on it, just a 1970s cargo ship. It would be really cool if when you clicked on it, the front opened up and tanks rolled out, but no such luck.

Last edited 1 year ago by Jon
Jon
Jon
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Ah, you meant the Twitter link. I found the LST!

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago

Just waiting for the threats to the Falklands comments due to a single amphib….

Jacko
Jacko
1 year ago

Well obviously the threat has ramped up considerably😂

David Barry
David Barry
1 year ago
Reply to  Jacko

Please factor in the suicide SF penguins, they’ll swim up on us.

Quentin D63
Quentin D63
1 year ago

Even if it’s a small sign then UK might need to step up with its rapprochement sooner with Argentina to counter its increasing influence and partnership with China. Wouldn’t be surprised for Chinese equipment to find its way into Argentina some time soon. China’s likely looking for food, mineral and fuel sources for its economy and to feed its masses as well as spreading its political-military influence and bases on all continents.

TypewriterMonkey
TypewriterMonkey
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

China already has a military intelligence presence in Argentina. It’s a satellite monitoring station with a 50 year lease effectively making it Chinese territory. The CCP is already looking to extract rare earth materials from Argentina / South America, and already has confidential agreements regarding the supply of agricultural products, and increasing military ties. In return, Argentina received a Chinese financial bailout to stop it from going bankrupt.

John Stott
John Stott
1 year ago

Bang on and sussed.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 year ago

The Chinese infiltration into countries is really insidious. We should be shutting down all their foreign police stations. Restrict them to just 1 embassy building and not allow the Chinese state apparatus to have such a free reign.

Sonik
Sonik
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

It is insidious, but in fairness they are just copying what we have been doing for centuries. I’m sure they would laugh if we asked them to stop.

Jonathan Charles Agar
Jonathan Charles Agar
1 year ago
Reply to  Quentin D63

China will want paying for its Kit. and not in Beef LOL

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 year ago

Well Daniele there will probably be the usual Alarmist Headlines in some papers tomorow mornin, which makes a change from the constant ones about Snow and Ice, Prince Andrew / Harry or BoJos Dad. But realistically the chances of Argentina invading the Falklands anytime soon are zilch and declining rapidly. And the reason is simply that with the move away from fossil fuels it makes it less and less attractive regardless of what is under them. Why is it noone ever mentions the threats Argentina made before 1982 and why they didn’t act on those untill 1982 ? The previous… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
1 year ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Yes. I was fascinated by TWMs comment on the Chinese SMS in Argentina though, I was unaware of that.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

I wouldn’t agree to that. I’d say far more of the boy babies were kept!

ABCRodney
ABCRodney
1 year ago
Reply to  DaveyB

The figures are for those born and doesn’t take into account selection of what gets born. We all heard the rumours about abortions and since then kidnappings of girls from rural communities. But this it isn’t confined to China but as I said it is a really scary thought.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  ABCRodney

Agreed, it was common knowledge in Hong Kong before it was handed back.Being more liberal minded Hong Kong had a more balanced girls vs boys ratio.

Uninformed Civvy Lurker
Uninformed Civvy Lurker
1 year ago

The Royal Navy should hang its head in shame.
By the time these are built, launched and in service they will only have both carriers with an almost full complement of F35Bs, most of the T26 and T31 in service, all of the Astutes in service and their predecessors in advanced planning if not build,

How will we ever defend the Falklands from this ship and a modified Corvette.

David Steeper
David Steeper
1 year ago

😂😂

Jonathan Charles Agar
Jonathan Charles Agar
1 year ago

I Sense your not taking there old ferry as a serious threat.

Paul42
Paul42
1 year ago

There is no cause for alarm here, Argentina is a very, very long way from re-establishing air and naval forces in sufficient numbers and capabilities to pose any kind of threat to the Falkland Islands

Last edited 1 year ago by Paul42
Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago

We will see if this actually happens. Lots of these announcements have come and gone over the years.
It’s not a worry for the falklands. I don’t think Argentina would be silly enough to try an invasion again.
A good relationship economically would benefit the falklands and Argentina.
If it could be seen as an asset having part of the U.K. so close to them instead of a hindrance people could move on.
We all see the reaction of countries to Russia’s invasion. This is not 1982 anymore.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Exactly.

There have been so many announcements of planes, ships, subs to be acquired by Argentina that all came to exactly nothing tangible.

That is if they are actually built they float and go in a straight line – which the Argentinian built T42 didn’t.

Sean
Sean
1 year ago
Reply to  Monkey spanker

Agreed, and for all the Argentine bluster, it’s now a democracy whose government has to answer to voters.
Back in 1982 it was a military dictatorship that was looking for a foreign adventure to distract domestic discontent… funnily enough that description sounds like Russia today.

BigH1979
BigH1979
1 year ago

Cunning bastards. Are they building a floating drydock or is it some sort of ‘suit of armour’ that the landing ship can travel inside to protect it from torpedoes? Seems like too much of a coincidence to me 🤔🤔

Coll
Coll
1 year ago

Are we replacing the Tranche 1 Typhoon?

Paul T
Paul T
1 year ago
Reply to  Coll

In what context ?.

Coll
Coll
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul T

It’s ok, I think I have found my answer. MOD is retiring 16 tranches 1 Eurofighters. Although, BAE has said it is feasible to upgrade them. (Link)

Last edited 1 year ago by Coll
Jonathan Charles Agar
Jonathan Charles Agar
1 year ago
Reply to  Coll

BAEs would say anything to steal some taxpayers cash. Tranche 1 To 2 is and entire new aircraft. Airbus looked at it for Italy/Spain 25% useable of the T1.

Coll
Coll
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul T

I don’t know where the person who edited the wiki page got a total of 300 Eurofighters and 34 A400M from. Unless I have missed something.

Bryan
Bryan
1 year ago

Does it really matter how many landing ships you have if you haven’t got air cover. Even getting your ship into a position to offload your cargo is going to be very tricky giving the defenses that no surround the Falklands.

dc647
dc647
1 year ago

They are not going to have another go at the 🇬🇧Falklands🇬🇧 sorry I can’t find a Falklands flag looks like the Yanks don’t recognise it.

Damo
Damo
1 year ago
Reply to  dc647

🇫🇰

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 year ago

The new landing ship is an LST design. See Damen landing ship 100. They are building it under license.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

They built a T42 under license but that didn’t work too well in the end as it couldn’t sail in a straight line.

Gordon Dundas
Gordon Dundas
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

If I may respectfully suggest that if you honestly believe this vessel constitutes a clear and present danger to British sovereignty.
You need your meds adjusted.
.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Gordon Dundas

Which ones, the daily ones when I’m locked in, or the weekend ones, where they let me out?

NorthernAlly
NorthernAlly
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

I thought LST’s were out of fashion due to the vulnerability of getting that close to the shore.

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  NorthernAlly

See the below link:

https://news.usni.org/2020/11/19/navy-officials-reveal-details-of-new-100m-light-amphibious-warship-concept

The USMC are looking into delivering amphibious assaults using smaller ships for the Pacific theatre.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 year ago

This is at the same time that because their currency is basically worthless Argentina is launching a new Malbec Dollar tied to the wine price and at a near 50% discount on its official US dollar exchange rate?

Matt C
Matt C
1 year ago

I’d actually like to see what a full salvo of Brimstone would do to it.

Jonathan Charles Agar
Jonathan Charles Agar
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt C

30mm auto cannon with intelligent ammo made a mess of steel plate. why the Royal Navy discounted them as it was shown that a 30mm Auto could sink or destroy a Type 45. Was a tad concerning

Matt C
Matt C
1 year ago

If a 30mm got in range of a Type 45, well… one might as well be issuing the cutlasses and boarding axes.

AlexS
AlexS
1 year ago

The image shows a Damen design. Strange no one is calling the Dutch traitors! 😀

Andrew D
Andrew D
1 year ago

Argentina had a run in with James cleverly during the week regarded the Falklands maybe getting to big for there boots .I think something to do with China been there pals 👀

Tomartyr
Tomartyr
1 year ago
Reply to  Andrew D

I wouldn’t be surprised if Argentina built, with a Chinese loan, a large enough force to keep a significant portion of our overstretched navy in the area and away from Taiwan.

Farouk
Farouk
1 year ago

The ship Buenos Aires is looking at is the South Korean Makassar-class landing platform dock which they were impressed with after they had a good look at the one Peru built under licence in 2018 ( BAP Pisco) with Merco Press reporting last September that Argentine Rio Santiago Shipyards signed an agreement with South Korea’s Daewoo for said ship. It is 100 meters long, 16 meters wide, and 7.75 meters deep, with a speed of 16 knots and a range of 4,000 nautical miles or 15 days of operation. Pisco’s design includes accommodation of 157 crew members and up to… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Farouk
AlexS
AlexS
1 year ago
Reply to  Farouk

The is not the 3D rendering they put on that tweet.

Martyn B
Martyn B
1 year ago

Would be a good time to order the NSM for the batch 2 River Class OPV.

Jon
Jon
1 year ago
Reply to  Martyn B

I wonder if we can put NSM in a Navy POD. That way they don’t know if there’s an NSM on the River or not.

michael Hassall
michael Hassall
1 year ago

They have to find a way to pay for this ship, and like most of there military purchases get cancelled .

D steele
D steele
1 year ago

What about the rolling landing being developed by RN for landing heavier than vertical could that not be used on lighter carriers / cdg

Last edited 1 year ago by D steele
Jon
Jon
1 year ago

And still seven months to the general elections.

Rob N
Rob N
1 year ago

Why do they need a landing ship – who are they going to invade?

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago

Good for the Argies, as every county should take its defence seriously, and if they can use a capability to assist in the humanitarian area all the better…..but….let’s be grown up here and see the reality! It’s all funded, third party by the Chinese, to include “bases”, projects and loans. South America is going the way of West and East Africa, that is, bought and paid for by “loans” by the Chinese! Shit bust!

Esteban
Esteban
1 year ago

This is an absolute joke but yet everyone bites on it like it’s a goddamn game changer. Nothing if not predictable.

Jacko
Jacko
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

I take it you have missed the irony? Now be a good boy and go back to bed!

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Esteban

So I seeyou have stopped pretending to be British, as you have posted and claimed many times. Actions of a confirmed troll. Very sad, sad indeed.

geoff
geoff
1 year ago

Argentina needs to address the issues of discipline and mindset before investing in new military hardware. Any nation, no matter how poor, that allows it’s ships to simply rot away, turn turtle and sink whilst tied up in a Naval dockyard has no chance of reviving it’s Military effectiveness. Maintenance is a page one priority that they need to embrace in order to rebuild.

Geoff Roach
Geoff Roach
1 year ago

Land based version of NSM should take care of this, assuming we have the imagination to buy it.

Basil
Basil
1 year ago

Does Storm Shadow have a secondary anti ship capability or is it only good for land based static targets?

Tomartyr
Tomartyr
1 year ago

Judging by the stated objectives they’d need a hospital ship.
Judging by the unstated objectives they’d need a big hospital ship..

700 Glengarried Men
700 Glengarried Men
1 year ago

My 10p worth, Babcock at Rosyth is making P50u boats for ukraine order 2 for the Falklands and base them there, initially skeleton crew by RN then when trained by Island defence force, armament could be 1x 57mm gun 8x camm missile and 4 x older antiship missile

George Parker
George Parker
1 year ago

“In addition, we are going to have a new floating dock in a strategic place in bicontinental Argentina such as the integrated Naval Base of Ushuaia, which will allow not only to repair our ships with lower costs, but will also provide the possibility for the country to attend to emergencies involving vessels of other flags.” I wonder what part the CCP has in all of this? They want to build a strategic naval/air base in Argentina and supply said country with advanced jet fighters. In a deal to secure access to Argentinian raw material exports. For those who do… Read more »

WillDbeest
WillDbeest
1 year ago

Just what Argentina needs in its current economic straits

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago

Let’s not get our hopes up too soon. “The UK will spend an extra £5bn on its military and aim to lift defence spending to 2.5% of GDP as part of an updated strategy to counter intensifying threats from China and Russia. But the amount – while welcomed by the Ministry of Defence – is much less than what military chiefs are thought to require. Sources have told Sky News that the British Army alone needs an extra £3bn a year to avoid further cuts. Mr Sunak, on a trip to the United States, also failed to commit to a… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

It’s amazing, it’s actually a brutal cut in defence spending, well below inflation with just £1.98 billion being added this year so defence spending will decline as a share of GDP. However it’s being packaged as an increase because there is a vague commitment to move to 2.5% of GDP after the next election. That’s a commitment being made by a man who is A) an proven liar and B) has about as much chance of being prime minister in 2025 as I have dating Jennifer Lawrence. It’s even more amazing that the press and especially the BBC just prints… Read more »

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

It’s a total disgrace Jim, push the boat along until the next general election with promises of increases along the way to gain voters and then nothing as per usual.

“We’ll fight them on the beaches”, at this rate we probably will but with what!

https://www.normandy1944.info/templates/yootheme/cache/14/d-day-normandy-beyond-commanders-churchill-14f52caa.jpeg

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

‘Russia and China breathing sigh of relief over Britain’s defence budget cuts’Tobias Ellwood says Russia and China “will be breathing a sigh of relief” that Britain has not invested in its armed forces as he warned the next couple of years “are going to get very dangerous”. The defence committee chairman told Sky News that while he welcomes additional nuclear deterrent funding and the push to replenish weapons and ammo stocks for Ukraine, the government is “doing nothing” to reverse cuts brought in during the last defence review. “Mr Ellwood says 10,000 tanks and armoured vehicles have been lost from… Read more »

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Atleast this means the army won’t be getting its magic uplift to some how fight China. Hopefully the next government sees sense and continues the naval build up. At 2.5% with a naval focus we can have a world class navy in terms of equipment and scale while retains a small but highly trained well equipped army. 2.5% of GDP with an Army focus gets us back to an army only interested in keeping numbers above 100k and saving cap badges rather than looking at effects. At 2.5% we can do one but now both. Just have to rely on… Read more »

Farouk
Farouk
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

I personally dont see things as bad as some do, yes the Uk could do more, but to be fair, allocation of spending on defence has risen, the actual stats on defence funding as of Dec 2022:
https://i.postimg.cc/JzD5KfN3/Opera-Snapshot-2023-03-13-184350-www-gov-uk.png

Farouk
Farouk
1 year ago
Reply to  Farouk

The link for the above

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

Any army of consultants recruited by CAPITA, controlled via a contracted managed through deloittes 😀

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

😂

Jon
Jon
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

Given that the “increase” is hypothecated to submarine, nuclear and Ukraine, unless there’s more coming to inflation-proof the rest, it’s a significant real terms cut for all other defence areas.

It may be a sign that Sunak is being Sunak. Control. Austerity. We’re all in it together. Is he signalling a budget aimed at financial analysts, trying to give himself a little leeway for a crowd pleaser next year’s pre-election budget?

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Jon

Yes it’s the same Tory play book from the 80’s and 90’s, knock 1p of basic income tax and act like your people of favour just before and election then Jack it back up after you win. Realistically the Tory’s have ****ed the economy so badly there is not much he can actually give away by next year as well without tanking the pound like the Lettuce did. Best thing he could do for everyone is just call a general election and let the people decide but instead he will linger on for 18 more months doing nothing but keeping… Read more »

Jon
Jon
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

It will worry me more if the £4.9 billion increase over two years is £0.9 bn this year and £4bn next year, with next year’s increase starting just after the election. I think he’ll want to look good on AUKUS so hopefully not.

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

I have read the Integrated Review Refresh, its basically a whitewash, says the world is going to pot but we arent planning any significant action to address it other than an aspiration (not a commitment) of 2.5% GDP spend from 2025, however talk is NATO conference in summer is going to raise the recommended floor on spending from 2% to 2.5% which would force PM to then make it an official policy and so hes holding off doing something now so he can be seen to be doing something in response then (prioritising diplomatic point scoring over UK defence).

Last edited 1 year ago by Watcherzero
Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Thank you for the update Watcherzero, so a merger increase in the summer at best 😡

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Nigel Collins

meagre increase sorry.

Phil Chadwick
Phil Chadwick
1 year ago

Argentina are no threat to the Falklands. As long as the UK defends the Islands as it has done ever since 1982. They do not have the military capability to mount an invasion.

Farouk
Farouk
1 year ago
Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Farouk

Mate I thought it was going to be minimum 12 then a full order to fill in the now, no longer a concept, strike Bdes/BCTs?

Farouk
Farouk
1 year ago
Reply to  Airborne

Airborne,
Only 48 were made, with 12 pledged to the Ukraine, there really isn’t that many for Sweden to hand over, so adding even 6 to the Uk would cut its nbrs by at least a third. However and a big however I feel this is just to allow the RA to get used to it and that if we do purchase it, we will go for the newer HX2 iteration based on the MAN truck family which is already in service with the Army, meaning easier to maintain
https://i.postimg.cc/s2qxX0Hw/fg-2652706-idr-1234.jpg

Airborne
Airborne
1 year ago
Reply to  Farouk

Cheers mate, I have spent sometime today updating myself on the kit and its various base vehicles, versions and systems! 👍

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Farouk

Eight 155mm systems is a ****ing joke. The Tory’s always like to hand out a few toys to try and cover up the cuts but 8 guns is an insult even if it is to back fill Ukraine orders. So the British army now has to introduce and complete new artillery system with training, logistics and development for just 8 units. 😂😂

Farouk
Farouk
1 year ago
Reply to  Jim

JIm wrote:

“”Eight 155mm systems is a ****ing joke. The Tory’s always like to hand out a few toys to try and cover up the cuts but 8 guns is an insult even if it is to back fill Ukraine orders. “”

To be fair the headline does include the adjective:
Interim

Jim
Jim
1 year ago
Reply to  Farouk

Interim would suggest a capability, 8 guns is not a capability, it’s a trial at best.

Nigel Collins
Nigel Collins
1 year ago
Reply to  Farouk

It will be interesting to see the final outcome. Expected bidders include BAE Systems with the Archer and Nexter with the Caesar, both offering truck-mounted systems, pitched against Hanwha Defence with the tracked K9 self-propelled weapon, and Krauss Maffei Wegman offering an RCH155 howitzer turret mounted on a 8×8 wheeled Boxer. Updating the current AS90 might be another option. For now, industry is still waiting for an update of key user requirements from the British Army. That information is expected to determine whether wheels or tracks are the preferred option. Both options have their supporters and it’s possible the British… Read more »

DaveyB
DaveyB
1 year ago
Reply to  Farouk

Yes, about time. Then I read the small print. I take it these systems will be on loan?

The MoD should stop faffing around and get the Archer, as it’s the best high mobility SPG available off the shelf. Instead of the Volvo articulated vehicle get it mounted on the MAN HX2 8×8 truck chassis. As it can then have the longer 52 cal barrel.

C’mon it’s not that hard!

Michael Hannah
Michael Hannah
1 year ago

One wonders why Argentina needs an amphibious assault vessel. What coast do they plan to assault. ?
Should make a very nice artificial reef off the Falklands , if they are that crazy.

Santiago
Santiago
10 months ago
Reply to  Michael Hannah

Why a country need an army? Common sense, buddy

Michael Hannah
Michael Hannah
10 months ago
Reply to  Santiago

Charming answer, pal!!

Michael Hannah
Michael Hannah
10 months ago
Reply to  Santiago

If you understood the meaning of my question you would understand that I was asking what country they intend to assault

Ryan Brewis
Ryan Brewis
11 months ago

Maybe we need to take a look at NEMESIS. USMC would be happy to show it off I’m sure.