The UK is deploying the Type 45 destroyer HMS Dragon and Royal Navy Wildcat helicopters to the Eastern Mediterranean, bolstering air defence and counter-drone capability.
The Ministry of Defence said HMS Dragon will sail to help defend British interests and support the collective self-defence of allies. The destroyer is equipped with the Sea Viper air defence system, capable of launching multiple missiles in rapid succession and guiding several simultaneously. Type 45 destroyers have previously intercepted hostile threats on operations, including a missile engagement in 2024.
The deployment follows a series of defensive actions by UK forces over the past 24 hours. RAF F-35B jets shot down drones over Jordan, marking the first time an RAF F-35 has destroyed a target on operations. The mission was supported by Typhoon jets and a Voyager tanker aircraft.
Elsewhere, a British counter-drone unit neutralised drones in Iraqi airspace heading towards Coalition forces. An RAF Typhoon operating with the joint UK-Qatar 12 Squadron also shot down an Iranian one-way attack drone directed at Qatar using an air-to-air missile.
In addition to HMS Dragon, two Royal Navy Wildcat helicopters armed with Martlet missiles are deploying to the region. The helicopters are designed to detect and defeat aerial threats, adding a further layer to the UK’s counter-drone capability.
Defence Secretary John Healey said the UK was acting swiftly to reinforce its presence.
“We are moving quickly to further reinforce our defensive presence in the Eastern Mediterranean.”
“HMS Dragon brings world-class air defence capability, and our Wildcat helicopters are armed with Martlet missiles to counter the growing drone threat.”
“I am deeply proud of the professionalism and bravery of our Armed Forces personnel who have in recent days, successfully taken action across the region to protect our allies and defend British interests.”
The Ministry of Defence said the deployments are focused on protecting British personnel and interests, while contributing to wider regional stability.
Surely a type 45 should have been forward deployed to Gib a week ago in a just in case scenario?I would have thought it obvious that our bases on Cyprus could well be targeted
I suspect nobody thought trump would kick off gulf war 3 without any warning or plan.
Not even the US State Department got any warning as they hadn’t evacuated embassy staff from the region. 🤦🏻♂️
With the military build up over the last few weeks, it will have been the worst kept secret military action was on the cards.
If every military build-up was perceived as inevitable military action then the Soviets would have launched a pre-emptive attack in 1983 as forces assembled for Able Archer.
Moving military forces to an area is to ‘encourage’ the other side to be more flexible in negotiations. When Britain used to did it it was known as Gunboat Diplomacy.
I would find it incredibly hard to believe. Considering the very close relations between our government’s, military and intelligent services. That we didn’t know this was going to happen.
Do tell how people will now what a dementia-addled President is going to decide on a whim at any given moment.
Military operations like this are months in the planning.
Planned for months to be ready by a specific date.
And then Trump chose to begin it in on a whim.
Most probably. But we would still have known in advance and could have been better prepared. They’ve moved forces to the middle east, we could have done the same for defensive purposes. We sent the F35s a while back, T45 shouldn’t have been far behind. It’s always easier to de-escalate if not needed, then play chat up.
If what Rubio said is correct, the US was rather bounced into early action by Israel announcing that it was going to launch an attack on Iran.
Very possibly this was the result of Israeli Intel about the date, time and place of the key meeting of Iran”s senior figures.
Problem with this opportunistic start is that it’s an Israeli scheme which lacks any clear strategic military aim or political goal. For Israel, the political goal is saving Netanyahu’s hide at this year’s election which, if he loses, puts him straight into court for financial crimes. It is militarily enough for him to be seen to be striking Iran from the air and roughing up Hezbollah one more time in Lebanon.
All very attractive to Bibi’s buddy Trump, who also needs to pull a rabbit out of the hat to pr3vent big losses in.the Midterms. The supporters of both these characters love to see firm military.action against somebody, anybody.
Leaving the US military with the problem of how to engineer.regime change in a sizeable nation of 90 million people, where the western-leaning opponents of the regime are few in number, unarmed and not organised gainst 1.5m regular forces, IRNG, Bajis militia, national police.
And how to oil and gas from the Gulf through the Hormuz Straits, which is going to batter western fuel prices and petrol at the pump.
Problem is there isn’t a clear political objective, a military stop point, an end game for how to achieve regime change. It is basically a half-cock political venture, which is going to come down to battering Iran from the sky until some regime survivors sue for peace. But what if the IRNG, albeit dispersed, hold on to power and resort to international terrorism and start shooting up the Kurd, Baluchi and Arab minorities, is the USA going to put boots on the ground and wage an x-year war?
Trump and Israel take us to places where we really don’t need or want to be.
Whilst I agree everyone thought trump was bluffing or at least would give his allies the heads up, the old expression hope for the best prepare for the worse comes to mind. It would have been sensible to be prepared. They moved F35b to Cyprus I assume for that reason, so why not naval assets. Only conclusion is there wasn’t one available at the time.
Because it’s a lot easier and faster to fly a few F35s out along with they ground crew than it is to ready a destroyer and sail it there.
True but there has been plenty of time. The US has sent a carrier from the US, which is a lot further away.
We sent a carrier to the Far East last-year, it didn’t mean we were going to bomb North Korea.
We weren’t threatening to do so, trump was. Combined with us not having just done the same against Venezuela.
The warnings that this might not be a bluff were there.
Don’t get me wrong I thought it was a bluff /negotiation tactic also, as I couldn’t see how bombing a country without involving ground forces could result in regime change, but I would still have prepared in case it wasn’t.
with precious few ships available, it probably fell down the list of priorities
Probably true. We still don’t know what happened. It’s possible there was a skysabre or starstreak battery there and they thought it was enough.
I think we needed Israel to give us the heads up.
True, it does feel like trump got played by them.
Co-ordinated. A complex plan can’t be developed in such time frames. Iran thought it had time. It did not.
There isn’t a plan. The plan is very simple drop a load of bombs and hope someone steps up and overthrows the government. That’s not a plan it’s a dream.
There are only 8 serious Royal Navy warships available at reasonable notice meaning under 30 days. These include 2 Astutes, 2 T45s, and 4 T23s. That is a really serious situation as the Navy has been dangerously hollowed out. It seems modern warships spend far too much time in maintenance.
Understood there are new ships in build all ordered under the last Government of course. Liebore must be brought to account; they wont say what they intend to do with defence. Just to remind ourselves there are two serious Wars on today.
Harsh to blame labour. The conservatives were in charge for 14 years during that time they ordered nothing until it was too late and cut the defence budget significantly compared to the last labour government.
I agree the current government needs to publish it’s plans for the future but the mess they inherited.
Agreed the last Government waited too long before replacing the T23s.
Is what really concerns me are the unexpected and present cuts on Defence when we told there were to be increases. Add to that the delay on publishing details it is all very disturbing.
There has been an increase, if you look at the defence budget it went up last year,.the year labour got in, it was one of the first things they did. It’s the next uplift they haven’t delivered on but equally they said it wouldn’t happen until the budget allowed. I do however think it’s time to rethink that and accelerate it.
Starmer initially denied the use of Diego Garcia for US strikes on the 19th of last month, didn’t he? He had to have been aware something was imminent.
Starmer was asked in the scenario of an attack being made, just like Spain turned the USA down too. Advance notice is required so the planners can get on and do their thing.
Doesn’t mean something IS going to happen.
Don’t disagree with you though if the US planned strikes in 3 or 4 months they would already be asking for that permission (at least professionals with a plan would), even no nothing dimwits like Trump and Hegseth wouldn’t by choice leave it till the last minute. Trouble is as the totally contradictory excuses for the attacks from Trump, Vance and Rubio within hours of each other demonstrate they barely know what they are doing day to day so even more difficult for others to guess what side of the bed Trump wakes up on. Doubt even Melania knows from down the hall. That said mind I am somewhat amazed that a T-45 wasn’t allocated in anticipation. Maybe an indicator of just how few actually available we have. Let’s hope Putin sends us a memo before he makes a move.
American movements into the region were thought to be applying pressure, even the US did know it was going to start when it did during day time on a Saturday.
Trump is just winging it as per usual
And is it working?
We should have an escort permanently deployed to Gibraltar. Maybe we should upgrade the River 2s until Real Escorts are back to strength in the mid 2030s! I have a photo of Gibraltar in 1978 when you could have walked across the harbour over the decks of RN Warships.
I’m going to say that the moment a they asked for Diego Garcia, a forward deployment should have been conducted. With another ship, frigate or destroyer, readied in port as quietly and promptly as possible. Then you could have one at Cyprus and another to rotate it out for reload of Sylver VLS and in case the Iranians or Houthis also started going for Egypt to harm the Suez economy in addition.
Well he did kind of give quite a clear time frame on the 19th of Feb giving Iran 10 days to sign a deal or ‘really bad things will happen’.
Plus the huge amount of military hardware being transported to the region (especially via the UK) would have been a few minor clues as to something coming.
Trump gives & takes timeframes all the time. Like the boy who cried wolf, it’s next to impossible to know when to take him seriously.
TACO comes to mind, no one thought he was serious. Even the various US agencies were taken by surprise.
He runs the government like a dictatorship and ignores Congress.
Same happened when the US pulled out of Afghanistan, they didn’t give allies including the UK the heads-up, as they don’t consider allies as partners, they consider them as tools to be used when convenient.
2 Carrier Groups and other missle carrying ships took over a week to park themselves on Irans door step in a not too subtle maneuvre? Then there was the F22’s, f35’s and a plethora of Tankers that flew into the UK? Are you honestly saying that this caught you by surprise?
👍
This has been coming for some time. The UK response reeks of incompetence and ineptitude.
A Shahed is a well understood, relatively unsophisticated weapon. It has NO business successfully striking a target on Akrotiri. The truth is we didn’t have the resources to protect our own camp.
It’s embarrassing for the Army in that GAMB didn’t provide the warning soon enough and 16/12 Regt had no launchers in play. It’s embarrassing for the RAF in that they were caught with their pants down. It’s embarrassing for the Navy for having too few ships to maintain presence there.
It’s only through good fortune that multiples of people weren’t killed.
I think the important statement is
Did not have the resources.. that’s the fundamental issue.. this is a 2 decade long problem.. the war on terror took a huge chunk of the defence budget and then the Cameron response to the banking crisis cut further.. and since thing no political party have had any interest in changing the damage..
The incompetence is in long term strategic planning around the forces we need.
Well as my granny used to say : You know what thought did , don’t you. It was fairly obvious given bot the build up of American hardware in the Gulf, and Trumps recent escapades that there was a potential for him to go down this route. It is negligence of the highest order that this scenario wasn’t anticipated and counter defence measures planned. As for not sanctioning our own retaliation to stop Iranian drones & missiles at source or sanction use of air bases previously well …It seems Trump is right: Starmer ain’t no Churchill. The man seems the proverbial rabbit in headlights. – Totally beholden to the Left of his party.
Potentially- yes. Potentially I might win the lottery next week. Potentially Trump might annex Greenland or even Canada. Perhaps the Canadian’s might burn down the White House again (just to annoy Trump & show they still can). Trump has become the boy who cried wolf.
And yet the government was asked for access to bases to launch attacks. But then again I wouldn’t expect your average politician to make the connection 😏 . They attended the brightest bunch.
This issue developing seems to be that no one including the Americans knew they were going to start this war when they did. Everything kicked off early because the Israelis got intel about the meeting and Donald Trump decided to assasinate the head of state of another country.
It’s hard for HMG to plan around that when I was told nothing was likely to happen.
Yes, we didn’t know what was going on, but we should’ve been ordering a destroyer to the Med at the outbreak of hostilities to reinforce Cyprus (Builds us credit with the Greek/Turks on the island too) and protect the base that’s effectively going to Iraq/Jordan to protect from there.
I do think that the mission of the RAF Regiment needs redoing, is it just ground security or local airspace security from the ground. Perhaps some Boxers with Skyranger like SHORAD cannons and SAMs. This incident and the incident with Brize Norton is really highlighting just how powerless the RAF Regiment is or if it’s not being utilised properly because manpower or muh Serco contracts…
RAF Regiment does Force Protection.
I’d not say that they’re powerless, only set up to face a different threat to this after their GBAD Squadrons were cut long ago.
If we re role them to GBAD, who does the FP role?
As Airborne once said to me, it saves others having to do it.
They, along with everything else, need expansion.
RAF Reg have ORCUS counter UAS
It was deployed to Belgium so it must be at least IOC
Hi Sonik.
I know, I list that elsewhere.
But my understanding is only 2 CAUS Wing have the role, not the other Sqns.
They also have Rapid Sentry.
Yeah sorry didn’t mean to patronize, I realized right after posting you’d be the one to know exactly what’s fielded. Like many things it’s very hard to find how much kit we actually purchased and where it’s located. OPSEC is obviously legit but it sometimes raises suspicion that they try to hide how thin it really is.
Hey! I didn’t take it that you were, you might not have read all the thread yet.
Don’t apologise, it’s not necessary mate. 👍
And I agree, HMG hide behind OPSEC all the time, look at Sky Sabre and how many launchers we may or may not have, they won’t say.
Even Rapid Sentry looks decent as a basic airliftable SHORAD, but I doubt we have many units (or for that matter trained operators). It would be nice to get a shift on with Stormer replacement. Since they already decided on CAVS as the mount, that could be a quick and easy way to add mass. I try not to be to be a doomer but it’s frustrating when there are these obvious and relatively cheap expedients just waiting for the nod.
MoD not gifted with 2nd sight
Screamingly obvious. I laughed when I read that Healey said that the UK was ‘acting swiftly’, a joke when you consider that the Greeks have already sent two frigates and the French have despatched a carrier group to protect Cyprus. Living within sight of Akrotiri I’m not at all concerned for the safety of my family so much as I’m concerned about the damage done to the reputation of our Armed Forces. Much is being made here about the inability of Britain to protect not just Cyprus but its own bases, thus adding to demands for their removal. Yes, they’re sovereign territory, but their retention is untenable without consent and support from the Cypriot authorities. Our people remain as good as ever, but as ever they’ve been undermined hugely by our politicians.
It should be noted that the Greeks don’t have far to go.
Well nether would we if we’d have got our arses into gear early enough.
The U.K. has been humiliated for electoral reasons. For the past half century Labour has benefitted from the migrant Moslem vote. Since October 2023 that rapidly expanding voting block has shifted away dramatically from Labour; a safe Labour seat has been lost easily by a large margin, despite locally, expressions of appeasement. Islamists had previously taken other once strongly held Labour seats based ona pro-Hamas/Gaza platform. As a result of this, today several leading Labour government figures are occupying marginal seats and will be unseated by the Moslem block vote in the near future according to active polling. These are votes Labour cannot retrieve from the indigenous lower classes it was founded to support in Parliament, who have long turned against the party. It is of course, possible that Starmer’s administration was set against resolving issues with the Islamic Republic of Iran by military action; however, the electoral dimension – faint as the prospect of winning back Moslem voters might be – cannot be ignored. The implication is that Sir Keir placed shoring up a crumbling voter base and his party’s prospects above this country’s longer term international interests and standing. It has not worked and results are plain to see. It has been a disaster, a public display of astonishing incompetence, one that will take much work to repair.
Good to see the deployments finally happening, but this highlights that the government’s pre-emptive measures weren’t enough. Also, non-essential staff and families should have been moved before an attack, not after. Luckily, no one was hurt or killed this time. This government always seems to be behind the curve, and we are looking a bit silly to our allies and the world.
Even the Americans didn’t have time to evacuate families, Trump gave no prior notification to anyone.
I think an a belated apology to the Japanese is called for. Infamy is clearly catching.
At least the Japanese formally declared war. Trump didn’t, because that would have required permission from Congress due to that pesky Constitution…
Yes shows that even the US didn’t know,
I’m talking about the weeks building up to this, not the hours before. The UK has contingency plans at overseas bases like RAF Akrotiri to move non-essential personnel and families to safety, yet they weren’t activated until after the attack. Obviously, this would get families out of harm’s way, but it also allows serving personnel to do their jobs without worrying about their families.
So you’re suggesting we evacuate people whenever a USN aircraft carrier is positioned off a hostile coastline and USAF warplanes are repositioned on the off-chance something might kick-off?…
No country did what you’re suggesting, not even the USA.
Stop making daft comments.
I’m not talking about blanket evacuations. I’m talking about moving families away from a likely target. That’s exactly why contingency plans exist. They’re there to be used when the risk materially increases, not just after something has already landed on the runway. There’s nothing daft about expecting proactive risk management.
The reality is the government were naive in thinking we wouldn’t be targeted if we weren’t involved in strikes. It wasn’t just one aircraft carrier, it was two, part of the biggest military build up in the Middle East since the Iraq invasion. Now they’ve evacuated families and non essential workers, U turned on not allowing the US to use our bases and are rushing around to send what they can to defend the base.
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Running around in circles.
Underneath, I doubt CSOC/CJO was caught unaware, if they were, we are in bigger shit than I thought.
But they can do nothing wothout assets and political approval, and upstairs, eekl they’ve other interests!
We are four years into war in Europe. Of course CSOC, which was born during this period, has considered a strike on the UK, as has MSHQ. The question I have is why do we need political approval to send a ship to Cyprus? What do we need to decide to send Sky Sabre to Cyprus? Does the army get a veto so it has to be decided at the level of CDS or above? Why are we so inflexible at the multi domain level?
Yes, there’s been reporting that the Navy even advised sending a Type 45 long before the strikes, but as you say, that’s ultimately a political decision. At least no one was hurt, and this embarrassment to HMG should hopefully change their thinking, at least in the short term.
We weren’t targeted until Starmer gave permission for use of U.K. based to strike Iranian missile/ drone stocks/ launch facilities, etc. Starmer only did that after our allies in the region were targeted.
I get it. You’re so panicky you’d evacuate our people everytime some foreign despot sneezes. Fortunately our military leaders have more of a backbone than yourself.
Even Starmer himself has said that the drone that landed was launched before the decision to allow the US use of our bases was announced…
We were at elevated risk long before that decision. When two US carrier groups are positioned in theatre and tensions are clearly escalating, bases like Akrotiri become potential targets whether we fire a shot or not. That’s the nature of being a strategic hub.
Look dude, you are really dumb 😂 I can tell you haven’t served, unless we count serving Big Macs at drive thru windows two. So I’m not here to educate you, I haven’t got the time. I also don’t want to be having conversations with people who think it’s morally and legally fine for a nine year old girl to have sex because she’s married. Keep being the 🤡 you are, but maybe lower your vape dose.
Well, the Americans were telling their follow Americans to leave the Middle East ASAP for about a week before it kicked off. Plus it didn’t take much of a psychic to read these tea leaves correctly. Personally I think anyone who says they did not see this coming is talking out their arse. Shit, it was all they talked about on the News for 2 straight weeks. If Sky News can figure it out I would think our Intelligence Services can.
Exactly.Well put Spartan
🥱
No they weren’t, stop rewiring history.
The US State Dept didn’t start evacuating embassy/ consulate staff and families, or American tourists ex-pats, and the Pentagon didn’t start evacuating servicemen’s families until after the Iran started retaliating…
Nobody knew this was going to happen for definite or when. Not even Trump.
If the Russians attack they aren’t going to hand us their itinerary ahead of time. We need to monitor their movements, arrive at conclusions and react accordingly. That’s what certain people are paid for. It was clear as day what the Americans were building up to. If we couldn’t figure that out then we are truly f*cked if the Russians ever get nasty.
Are you seriously suggesting it was perfectly reasonable for the UK Government not to even consider a defensive strategy prior to the this kicking off following the US build-up , and to ensure suitable military assets where in situ to accommodate any scenario accordingly?
Trump. Can we use your bases to attack Iran. Starmer no you can’t. I think there’s a clue in that conversation. 😁
Any news on defence investment plan or is it still in slow motion? Where are the immediate orders for more GBAD, more FJ airframes?
No DIP any time soon and forget about more airframes or anything else beyond what we already know. The DIP will be an exercise in licking the can down the round thanks to the Treasury refusing to accelerate spending.
Lol, kicking
👍 sadly with the clowns we have in charge it doesn’t surprise me! Maybe a senior has to resign to call out the shambles.
Indeed and the new prospective inflation over oil is hardly going to help. I think the last review is already out of date.
But, but, but renewables?
I’m not licking your DIP you can cut that right out.
😂
be cheaper to deply not much good low on ammo sky sabre and two used Gepards on the air field, than billion pound ship with very expensice missilea that will take a week to get there. What sick joke our under armed forces are, its embrassing
Could you try English please?…
Sneering becomes no one, least of all you.
We don’t even have gepards
Oh I know that, last GUN for GBAD was retired in 80’s, My point was why send a £ billion pound ship with limited ammo or we could re equipt with Guns like most NATO has, And added to that an AWAC’s aircraft would have been helpful but we have none of them either. Fact is we can not defend an RAF base. There are no hardend hangers there and no perminant GBAD,
🤣
I guess Dragon is reasonably equipped to deal with Iranian ballistic missiles or those used by Hezbollah while it can deploy Wildcats with Martlet flexibly to take out drones so not quite so pointless. But bad reflection on the base’s lack of defences I agree.
That is my real point, we seem to have nothing and are getting more of nothing its not good look around the world is it. We as an nation seem incompedent and uses less, and no sign of any improvement. Stubbling from shambles to shambles on the world stage un able to defend a simple base from Prop drones.
My understanding, based on the comments during the last round of drone swapping is the T45 can see the ballistic missiles coming but can’t do anything about it. We can lob a million pound missile at a prop drone though.
My understanding is that the T45 Sea Viper system is capable of intercepting current range of Iranian ballistic missiles. That’s why it is being sent. The system is also being enhanced so that it can deal with supersonic and manoeuvring missiles; and at longer range I think.
Gibraltar is virtually defenceless too. There needs to be a Ruling as to who is responsible for defending each of our bases layer by layer and our Armament factories and Airports too, so the buck isn’t passed.
This is extremely important in a time such as this with cheap drones that can cause a huge amount of damage.
At present we are poorly defended wherever one looks. We are in a shambolic state. Ireland needs to be defended properly its our vulnerability.
Healey needs to move his a… really fast or he should resign.
Sending the ship is a good move, it is the most potent AD asset we have.
But, yes, we really should have a menu of options ranging from –
CUAS via Jamming – Yes, ORCUS, probably too few.
CUAS via kinetic action. – Yes, Rapid Sentry, but numbers are probably miniscule ( classified how many. ) There are also LMM teams forward in Iraq.
AA Cannon type GBAD, No, a major gap in our capabilities.
Missile GBAD. – Yes, but numbers are low for both SHORAD and MRAD, and any used are diverted from their main role. If there was a war, what do we do, choose? More needed, lots more.
BM defence, can Sea Viper do to some degree? I’m unsure?
AWACS would be helpful, yes, but in Cyprus case, there is a bloody big radar already up in the skies atop a mountain.
We can defend RAF Akrotiri, we just need to get our arses in gear with what we have, gaps and all.
No, nowhere has permanent GBAD save Mount Pleasant, another big capability gap.
HAS, yes, none at Akrotiri, which I find shocking given they have been around since the 70s, and that many at RAF Stations were paid for by NATO. Is Akrotiri not a NATO base? It should have them.
The Wildcats, all two of them, can carry many Martlet, another useful capability.
Add 12 Typhoon and 6 F35B on the station, we do have kit there Martin, but yes, some shocking gaps.
Intelligence of what is incoming will not be a problem either with Troodos Elint /Spacol / Proforma mission and Ay Niks OTHR and other ablilities.
Are we not sending expensive kit do a job some thing much cheaper could co better, misiles are costy. Gun rounds are many times cheaper, we have spent money on fancy kit then have to use to distrory basic prop powered drones is a massive waste of money, and we like every one have limited misiles.
In the age of drones no gun GBAD is a big error, one that no one in the MOD admits to, seems to want to address. Yet again just another gap in equipment hushed up or just ignored.
I agree, I’d buy a shed load of 30mm cannon for several critical SPOF nodes.
Have you thought of sending a FOIA request to ask why guns are dismissed ?
I wonder how much it would cost to move the prototype of Dragonfire out there for some real world testing…
Interesting idea!
Dragonfire is absolute pants – 30 seconds to take out a compliant small drone
Perhaps that may be the case, all the more reason for free real world testing so we can see what needs to be improved. Although if it were really that bad would we have ordered units to install on ships…
Why bother, the CDS should be ashamed of shambles he commands its embarassment.
To be honest I bet there are loads of GAM-BO1 hanging around.. these could be uses.. instead of buying a load of 30mm cannon systems, they could instead use the opportunity to upgrade all the RN ships to 40mm bofors.. then use all the old 30mm DS30 systems infrastructure protection…
Reuse and recycle…
Why not, I’d like to see the armed forces with AA guns, from wherever.
Yep drones now make cheap anti air a core requirement to cover anything really.
The only issue with AA Guns especially ones that fire huge volumes of rounds, if you chuck few hundread 30/40mm rounds at a drone they WILL come down somewhere!!! its fine for AKT if drone coming from Sea but if approaching from direction like NNE then most of these rounds are going to come down all over Limasol or the SE coast of Cyprus and that will cause more issues?
If they are AA rounds (especially timed rounds) they will (should) explode at the designated time or if proximity, when they approach something. If the proximity round has a backup timer then it will explode at some point after missing. A bigger problem is CIWS like Phalanx (as they rely on direct hit & don’t explode anyway). There have been friendly fire incidents from Phalanx (which is a solid 20mm round). Non AA rounds is a different matter.
Good point.
We have Dhekelia and Ayios Nikolios in the N east, so I’d have said place guns there. But Dhekelia has land to its N and E and Ay Nik, further east still, has Turk and the demiliterised zone to it’s north and E and S is quite urban.
And if we have ROE like that, well that rules out every installation in the UK save those on the coast having some sort of AA system. Sooner or later we need to remove these handcuffs, but I can see with the SBAs we’d need to be more cautious.
I have a book from the early 1990’s which covers military equipment by use, there a section on anti aircraft equipment, broken down by section and in the AA Guns section it says ” All major armies ( apart from the British) back up there SAM systems with AA guns “
I’ve had/have books which say the same, Simon. For some reason we are allergic.
I’ve had/have books which say the same, Simon. For some reason we are allergic.
I recall we had some the 70s, but I don’t remember them.
We also captured some in 82.
We should do what the yanks have done. They took a 70mm rocket of which they have millions in storage from the 80’s or something stupid and attached a APKWS system on it with a proximity fuse. It needs laser guiding for now but when it goes off it can take down a number of drones in one go. Apparently each one costs less than the drone it is taking down. They can be installed on F15’s, helicopters and GB vehicles.
We need a good clear out at the MOD and a permanent clued up non governmental civilian or two asking questions. Danielle?
I have no confidence in the present arrangements. The HoC Defence commitee tries but we don’t see results. We need a serious plan to get to 4.5% + GDP in a dangerous world.
The Times (not the Torygraph!) is pointing out that France’s offer to help protect the UK bases in Cyprus by stationing an air defence frigate off shore and deploying a SAMP/T battery on shore is very embarrassing for the MOD and UK government. But the reality is that it will take about 2 weeks for HMS Dragon to get on station, whilst the UK has no land based anti-missile systems that it can send to Cyprus
Would the last AA guns in the army being in the late 1970’s ( Bofors 40L70) and I think that was with the TA?
Last guns were those captured in the Fualklands war used by the RAF regt
I think they may have been in service with RAAF ?
Yes, the RAuxAF.
that the ones. trouble is with the end of the Cold War, they ended up on the chopping block. We do though still have the radars ( or at least we did unless something has changed) but they are used for some monitoring purpose
Off my head, the two Radar that were captured with the guns ended up with the RAF P&SS, who used them in conjunction with the Flying Complaints Flight to catch aircrew unaware when they deliberately flew lower than they were allowed to on training elsewhere exercises.
That, at least, was the position as I understood it some years back.
Now, I’m unsure of their status.
They should have parked them in my Grandads field in North Devon when I was a kid….the jets flying over there looked like they were about to take the cottage roof off!
I LOVED it…
Edit…I’ve no idea how “elsewhere” ended up in the middle of that, sorry.
Also, there was a Sky newe documentary about 2015 timeframe about the UKADR. One of the guns was sitting, like a Gate Guard, outside the NADOC at Nap Hill.
Aaah,i remember when the Hawks were at Chivenor,you are showing your age DM!
Hi Devonboy.
Yes, 53 going on 54.
They were usually Hawks from the TWU, but also GR1s and F3s would go over, on one occasion several, I forget it is a long time ago, Tornado line astern, but not flying straight, but turning. I was beside myself….
Influenced me applying to join the RAF.
The Oerlikon Skyguard System (s) are now Exhibits at the RAF Regiment Museum.
Hang on, I got it, 2030’s some time ?
Puzzling why Dragon is preferred over Duncan because the former is currently undergoing maintenance whilst the later was reported as being ready to go. More experienced crew? Fewer defects? Full load of missiles? CMS software upgrades? But it will take a frantic 3 to 5 days to get her ready for ops and another 7 or 8 days to sail to Cyprus at 18 kts. I can only assume that the government is hoping its all over by then.
I think she’s just finished her maintenance, so she won’t be far off ready.
Unlikely to be over within the next 7 days.
Given the current rate, Iran has probably only fired 20% of its ballistic missiles. Of course missiles stocks will also have been depleted by air-strikes on depots/launchers. But their stocks of drones dwarf their missile stocks…
Sounds like our Defence Policy more generally doesn’t it.
Yes,a strange announcement seeing as Duncan has been active these last few days.Dragon has been rushed out of Dock today and is Loading up Stores and Munitions,i did think initially that our PM had got the names muddled up,but looks like Dragon it is.
Dragon’s had PIP (Duncan hasn’t) and the Eastern Med is warm. Don’t want to risk total power loss in the middle of a real threat.
Whether Duncan has yet to have PIP is irrelevant, she has served in the Mediterranean more than most of the other Type T45’s without issues.
Try 25 kn.
I made the point on here the other day, saying wouldn’t it be good to have a Type45 stationed off RAF Akrotiri. Sadly, the UK Government can’t always get it right….mind, this lot can’t even tell us when the DIP will be published. ‘We are working at pace,’ Says Starmer, but he’s been saying that since October. Even today’s budget statement is basically devoid of Defence detail, so much for urgency in wartime.
Interesting response that is going on geopolitically around the First 4 days..
1) the Donald Trump has just essentially started a trade war with Spain because it would not let it use its bases..
2) Trump stated if they don’t let us use the bases we will use them anyway because there is nothing they can do to stop us.
3) Trump says the UK is on his shit list.. but Germany and France are great
4) Cyprus now wants to renegotiate the use of the UK sovereign bases.. and wants them declared as essentially none offensive bases..
5) some republicans are now saying the US should take Greenland because European nations are unreliable.
It’s all a bit weird to be honest.
I have a feeling things are not going Trump way ( ie Iran gives up in two days or there a revolution) and now he is find out there going to be problems. ie gas prices, upset gulf states and he is lashing out as it is never his fault
They opened the gates of hell and the genie isn’t going back in the bottle. Things will likely get worse when GBAD interceptors start running low. This was all entirely predictable based on Ukraine’s experience, but of course Trump has zero understanding of that, because he hates Zelenskyy.
Akrotirii is British Sovereign Territory. Cyprus has nothing to negotiate. But then again we said that about Deigo Garcia and Starmer still found a way to surrender.
Surely a perfect opportunity to deploy the “direct energy” laser that was mounted on the MAN HX60 for real time live trials
Why don’t we just deploy some SAM and AAA batteries to Cyprus? Oh! We don’t have any! 😂. Has anyone told the glorious HMG that Prior Planning Presents P*** Poor Performance.
‘Presents’ is ‘Prevents’. Spell checker! lol.
Its fine, we called our old ally and pal France, they have a ship arriving tonight and apparently sending anti air assets to assist. Total joke.
A good development, probably because France is deploying so we must be seen to do likewise as the major power that we are….
Far too late.
The whole thing beggars belief frankly.
I didn’t imagine for a moment that a single Shahed could out-wit BFC defences so decisively.
Hi Jay.
Well there are no defences usually.
What we do have there are eyes and ears.
UKDJ stated that CAUS and GBAD had been moved there prior but I’ve seen no confirmation of that.
The SBAs lack of in a just in case scenario has been highlighted here for years.
As usual, we react, because we lack.
Yes there’s usually a lack of any real defence other than what the jets provide, but given the state of affairs you’d have imagines a surge in capabilities other than F-35.
Additional units have come and gone over the past few months, including 12 Regt Stormers’ and 16 Regt battery inc launcher. There’s also been a GAMB in situ for some time now.
As it happened, we were caught embarrassingly exposed with a clear lack of awareness – the first jet scrambled to react AFTER the explosion was heard. It’s a miracle nothing more substantial was hit.
Thought provoking speech by Marco Rubio in which he stated that the US felt they had to launch their assault to hit Iranian missile sites capable of retaliating against their ME bases when they found out that the Israelis were going to launch a pre-emptive strike against their chosen targets – the Ayatolla? i.e. Israel kicked things off with virtually no notice.
There are have been a number of reasons coming out the White House..but nothing really definitive, I’m not sure about the “ the Israeli’s made us do it” narrative.. after all the Israelis regularly take chunks out of Iran and then Iran fires a load of grief back.
My guess here is that the Israeli’s got wind of the meeting and they could easily have taken out the Ayatollah alone, in exchange for the usual tit-for-tat missile exchange. But Trump wanted to claim the scalp so he insisted on US involvement, with a predictable Iranian reaction against US bases & allies across the region. Now it’s all going south fast, Trump wants to share the blame. Netanyahu likely doesn’t really care because the wider attacks take the heat off Israel.
“There was no imminent threat to the United States of America by the Iranians,” said Mark Warner, the top Democrat on the Senate intelligence committee, who had received classified briefings from Rubio. “There was a threat to Israel”
This sounds to me exactly like the Israelis were expecting the usual retaliation for their (unilateral) decapitation op, and Trump himself decided to go wading in, purely so he could claim credit.
Agree. I think that’s how it happened. I have some sympathy for Trump; I think his conscience did make it a difficult decision for him. To give credit to the US I think that some in the administration were still hoping that Iran would negotiate a solution given more time. But the Israeli caught the US on the hop and they had little choice but to go. The Israeli mind set is survivalist – get your revenge in first. I think that’s the reason Trump is angry with Starmer. The US have always felt more comfortable if the UK stand by them as a friend and witness; giving moral authority. But to do that, I think my the UK would have liked to see the US make some attempt at raising the issue at the UN. No doubt Russia and China would have vetoed any motion to restrain Iran by force, but if the US had at least made the attempt at presenting some sort of legal case at the UN my guess is that the UK would have been on board from the get go.
No sympathy from me. The whole region is on fire because of Trump’s ego when he could have left the Israelis to it, just assisting them with home defence. I’d bet the gulf countries are fuming behind closed doors but they don’t admit it because they still need US support in a deteriorating situation.
Soon contradicted by his Boss who knew the Iranians were about to launch. No sympathy here. There are bad people on both sides, excepting some are constrained by courts and democracy.
I know to a point trump took everyone by surprise by his timing but it was clear there was a high chance he was going to attack. Cyprus was always going to be a target, and so don’t get why the destroyer wasn’t already there. Very poor planning
Yep Trump had given the Iranians 10 days. Asked to use UK bases etc. I suspect a by election caused the government to sit on its hands as the optics of forward deployed assets wouldn’t have gone down well with some voters.
Better late than never. Thankfully no British deaths yet but defence cuts are always paid for in blood eventually.
Its fine the French are on station from tonight to save any further embarrassment.
It’s still embarrassing, the UK has been fired upon and at first our defence secretary is in denial that UK sovereign territory he’s been attacked, now when forced to admit it’s intentional we’re still so weak in our response.
*has
We are moving quickly to further reinforce our defensive presence in the Eastern Mediterranean.. Because we’ve been caught with our trousers down!
Ah yes, the clueless, toothless yapping lapdogs have all of the answers. The stupidity and ignorance displayed above is mind boggling. The best one is the condemnation of Trump and Hegseth for lousy planning. Yeah, both are at the Pentagon doing all of the planning. Time to just sever the US from you Brits. You are clueless.
Ahh the Russian stooge enters the room….
Or is it Chinese political warfare operative I never can tell.
Hello! Welcome to the world you enjoy that we created for you. Pull up a chair. You can be witty sitting down.
INACTION THIS DAY!
Rather embarrassing if you ask me. Unable to defend our own airfield from an air attack by a propeller driven drone you can hear coming a mile away. That, and only having 1 ship to send, and that with a struggle. It’s pathetic. Even a blind man could see this coming. The US might not have consulted with the UK on the exact timing and date, but if we are honestly saying this caught us by surprise then we need to sack the entirety of MI6. Starmer had no intention of getting involved and thought capitulating from the get go would keep us out of harms way. But this is Iran and THAT is exactly why this needs to be done. If Iran decided it wanted to kill some of our people, it was going to kill some of our people not matter what we did or said. We were the small satan. That was enough for them, although one could argument about just how satanish we could be these days. Iran had been asking for this for decades and it was way past due.
The upside of this is, is that it really has highlighted the pathetic state of our Armed Forces. It SHOULD be the kick up the arse we need to do something about it. But I doubt it. The Govt will hunker down, wait for it to blow over then go back to procrastinating about the DIP which I still see no sign of despite todays “financial statement!”
Actually, believe that certain segments of HMG have acted honorably and rationally during this crisis. MoD, (including every service), is undoubtedly aware of all capability shortfalls that exist at present. Quite possible that CDS et. al., advised PM to maintain a low profile response to an impending crisis, in an effort to shield unprotected British military personnel and civilians from being selectively targeted for reprisal. With minimal RAF and no RN assets available, Sir Keir and others probably made the logical choice in attempting to disassociate the UK from American/Israeli actions/policies. Thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of UK citizens are at potential risk from hostile Iranian actions throughout the ME. If the UK should choose to rearm at some point in the future, there may be more latitude in terms of response to crises/threats. In the global geopolitical poker game, if one has been dealt a weak hand, and has been unable to improve situation during play, it is entirely rational to play defensively. 🤔
No.
Starmer is terrified of an insurrection breaking out in one of the northern cities which have become de facto Islamic enclaves. Every single statement from him contains constant denials of ANY UK involvement in any anti Iranian regime action.
When logic meets idiocy, the void becomes unmistakable. You decide which you represent.
The big flaw in your argument is the Iranian drones and missiles aren’t selective. The UK subjects in the Gulf were in the same risk boat if we got involved or not.
Where is John Healey in the media? We get the see Rachael Reeves talk about Defence at the start of her speech and cut shot to John Healey watching from the sidelines. The Prime Minister talks about HMS Dragon. Maybe Healey is saying things of such little consequence he just isn’t making the headlines. If our PM is no Churchill, our DefSec is no Ben Wallace.
Not like she was claiming credit for ships being launched that Labour didn’t actually order wax it ?😂
Jon,
That would certainly be one helluva combo, W. S. Churchill providing direction, and importantly, resources, to Big Ben Wallace w/ the expectation of successful mission execution. Rather like a fantasy football team/league (not certain if the concept exists in UK, popular pastime in the US). 🤔😊👍 If only …
I have read some knowledgable talking heads saying that at preset Iran are burning their cheap and cheerful drones and older ballistic missiles, but have not yet shot any of the newer ballistic missiles.. the talking heads cannot quite decide if this is because the US and Israel have managed to destroy most of the more modern ballistic missiles or if Iran is getting the gulf states to burn through their Patriot and THAD missiles before using its more advanced systems.. hopefully it’s the first..
The Sky News expert suggested that Iran has fired 500 of the 2500 they possess. The US has air superiority over Iran so it’s an exercise in intelligence and persistence now; lots of JDAMS to take out the launchers and underground silos. Say 2 weeks worth of sorties?
Paul.P
Very soon air superiority will transition into air supremacy throughout Iran. Then the USN and USAF can begin hunting w/ cost efficient JDAMS/LJDAMs. Uncertain whether the Iranians have a clue re upcoming campaign. Zero sympathy for IRGC and Basij, but hope that any identified pro-Western elements of regular services can be spared total destruction. Some military and police forces will ultimately be required to prevent Iran from becoming a failed state, vulnerable to further misadventures.
This is the consequence of gutting UK defence so deeply.
16 Regt not well-placed to deploy even one battery of sky-sabre. RN has seemingly no presence what-so-ever, even after multiple weeks of notice that something big was coming.
A Shahed has no business striking a target on Akrotiri – we’re lucky nobody was killed, and it is utterly humiliating for UKAF.
It’s frankly disgraceful.
Apparently the RN did suggest deploying a T45 to Cyprus when the build up started but the govt said NO!
I heard this too, a choice between Cyprus and flagship of SNMG1. The problem for me is there doesn’t seem to have been any/there was slow contingency planning for if she was needed to sail to Cyprus. The delay in deployment has been caused by needing to change missile mix, fully ammo up and even complete some welding. All of this seems to have suddenly had to be expedited since the drone got through and hit the runway at Akrotiri, rather than at least started beforehand.
Most of that is correct – Dragon was undergoing a Major Maintenance Period which involved Dry Docking,this work was still ongoing whence the Rush to get it in a fit state to sail.Yes she has had to ‘Ammo Up’ and take on stores,this takes time obviously.Changing Missile mix is a misnomer,she would literally have had to Load Missiles,presuming these were removed as one would expect during her Refit.Duncan is scheduled to be the Flagship of SNMG1,a prior commitment that has to be fulfilled,but she too was due a Major Maintenance period before then which would see her out of action for at least 3 months.Logically seeing as Duncan was ready to Sail,she should have been sent to the Med ASAP,with the expectation that she might miss her Refit slot,Dragon should have been made ready in as reasonable time period as is possible,then SHE could take over all of Duncan’s commitments for the remainder of this year,that is what i would have thought makes sense.
We need a Dragonfire equipped ship to neutralise these pesky drones for £10s instead of £ Thousands
If the UK cant adequetly defence overseas bases, then we shouldn’t have them. Our presence on Cyprus is bringing danger to the island, and I would not be surprised if the UK were asked to leave at some point in the future.
Not a chance.
Although with the Greens, SWP, the Labour far left, the SNP, and other assorted facists about that are offended by the UK having any sort of influence or military beyond our shores ( as part of their chip on the shoulder over “Empire” and thus rendering the UK as impotent, which is the intent.. ) you never know.
TBH It has never sat well with Cyprus that we have the bases (or Sovereign base area) there. there been quite a few protests and resolutions raised in the Cyprus parliament. There has been some talk this week again that Cyprus wants to put limations on what actions can be carried out from the bases there
Their primary importance is as a surveillance site, far away from our own shores.
Knowledge is power for me.
So if that ever came about, which I doubt because by my understanding they are sovereign territory at the point Cyprus became independent, so not open to alteration, we’d need to keep them for that at least.
Our most vital overseas real estate by far for me.
Not to worry mate Tom Haynes MP has just stated on Talk that Akrotiri has plenty of drone and missile defence systems!
Don’t know what we are worried about TBH😂
Deployment of one destroyer and two helicopters making major headlines! Jeesh, how the mighty have fallen.
Indeed. National embarrassment really. Have to believe some good will come out of the situation; bigger navy, Greens bubble burst, more pragmatic approach to ‘net zero’? Apprarently Merz made an interesting comment along the lines of ‘sometimes the law isn’t the best guide about what to do’.
Ha, letting your Disguise slip a bit with that last part.
Still I suppose it’s really difficult when maintaning so many Handles 😁
HMS Dragon is “expected” to sail early next week. A WEEK after being ordered on station arriving at the back end of next week. Sad, truly sad.
I heard they were going to press Victoty back into front line service as she’s still on the books so to speak. Those 32 pounders might be overkill for drones but maybe some grapeshot will do the job.
Anyhow don’t fret, it looks like Dragon is going nowhere!!!! It looks like someone has mislaid the ignition key! Damn and blast!
First ships crashed out of Devonport and Pompey and headed south the day after the Falklands was invaded.
Those were the olden days when concern was being expressed about a 50 frigate Navy. John Knott would be a godsend these days. Showing my age now.
Telegraph is reporting the Govt was arguing with the Yanks for 2 weeks before this thing started. Pretty much kills any thoughts that this came as some big surprise.
Does anyone know where we are with the 6 additional land ceptor systems we ordered last year? It would give us 13 of them, as usual we have nothing in the cupboard.
Yes, the Convoy Is due to arrive, sometime in the 2030’s.
Mate, seriously “Wasp Snorter” ? WTF Is that all about ehh ?
The question or my name?
You are in no position to be incredulous about my name, halfwit. You’ll be amused to know I even set up a little company called wasp snorter.
Many are overlooking the by election that happened in the run up to the conflict. The optics of forward deployed assets just off the coast of Isreal is unfortunately a vote risk. Irrespective of the fact it would be a defensive measure it would have been an easy bit of election spin for their opposition, even the news of a warship preparing to deploy wouldn’t have looked good. I don’t support a political party but logic dictates this was very likely a consideration.
Looks like Dragon is going to be in dry dock for another week or so. Glad we are “deploying at speed” to quote the PM.