Aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth is currently in the Irish Sea exercising with Texan training aircraft from RAF Valley in Wales on her way north to Scotland to take on ammunition.

The aircraft carrier will make its way to Glen Mallen in Scotland, where it will restock its ammunition supply.

During the cruise, the crew will have the opportunity to work with highly advanced F-35 fighter jets, an experience that will further enhance their skills and knowledge.

The ship is expected to return to Portsmouth in March after a successful training cruise. The crew will then have a few months to prepare before the aircraft carrier departs again and leads the Carrier Strike Group 23 deployment in August.

According to the Royal Navy, HMS Queen Elizabeth is the largest and most powerful vessel ever constructed for Britain.

“This awe-inspiring warship is capable of carrying up to 40 aircraft. As well as state-of-the-art weaponry and communications systems, HMS Queen Elizabeth boasts five gyms, a chapel and a medical centre.

The flight deck of HMS Queen Elizabeth comes in at an enormous four acres, and will be used to launch the fearsome new F35 Joint Strike Fighter fast jet. Four fighter jets can be moved from the hangar to the flight deck in just one minute. The ship’s two propellers weigh 33 tonnes each. The powerplant behind them generates enough power to run 1000 family cars.”

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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197 COMMENTS

  1. Probably positioning for the ‘Chinese weather balloon’ which will be appearing over Scotland later this week. LOL.

    • I find it refreshingly hilarious how the Americans are jumping up and down about that.

      After sending D21 Drones over China.
      After U2s flying over the USSR, with lots of other incursions too.
      Sentinel over Iran.

      They do it with impunity, now the boot may be on the other foot and the outrage!

      • Doesn’t make it acceptable does it?
        And Iran deserve and need that treatment. They are not some innocent harmless dictatorship.

        Plus, it’s only really some Republicans that are making noise about it; and half of that is them clinging onto anything to attack the administration with.

        • Course not. It’s spying. Everyone does it. But violation of others airspace is usually an American specialty so the irony wasn’t lost on me.

          • Hi Daniele,
            Hope you are well.
            Yes I found the US response very funny considering the decades of their interference services activities all over globe. Don’t get me wrong as the five eyes which we are a member, need intelligence gathering.
            But the response….how dare any other nation does the same to us. So funny!
            Cheers,
            George

          • To add some balance here, I think if the US flew balloons like this over China there would be hell to pay and they certainly would be shot down. Russia of course long tried and eventually shot down a U2 and China didn’t advertise the drone overflights because they would see it as personally humiliating but one can imagine the anger. So in essence the US is responding less than the others for the most part but leaves open a few questions. Height is about 50,000 ft apparently so pretty brazen on Chinas part here but why haven’t the US shot it down and why are the Govt playing it down when China/Russia/Iran et al would be doing their nut about revenge of all sorts?

            this balloon has apparently been flying over Canada and the US for a while ie entered over Alaska yet only over Montana has it become news when it seems Cessna pilot reported it in a close call message to ATC. Then pics from local bods on the ground of it clearly available. Meanwhile it was flying over at least one sensitive site, a Nuclear facility.

            So a series of questions arise, such as when did the authorities know of its existence? Why have they so far not acted on it. Was it not detected over Alaska or was it simply monitored. Did they detect it at all indeed till civilians informed them? Are they not making a fuss now to hide the fact that it wasn’t detected and don’t want to advertise failures to the ‘enemy’ and advertise the humiliation that often feed Chinese reactions to similar failings? Worse still if they were aware are they not confident they could easily bring it down and feared further embarrassment? The official line about dangers on the ground don’t surely stand up well when it was travelling over sparsely populated areas of Alaska, Canada and Montana. Geez if you can’t safely bring down a helium balloon when surely some holes will deflate it then it doesn’t instil confidence about other matters. Was there a lack of decisive decision making or clear thinking at various levels in those early days of opportunity? One would have thought determining what equipment and sensors were on it would be extremely useful intelligence. Or are they just reluctant to prod the Chinese perhaps concerned about possible events elsewhere despite this overt provocation. Would love to be a fly on several walls in the defence and political establishments there.

          • According to the latest reporting, these balloon flights have been going on for years and the US have basically kept quiet about it. I’m unsure if this was just to monitor and get an idea of capabilities or just didn’t want to create the uproar that’s currently occurring. In terms of bringing it down that part seems a little more complicated as it seems these balloons don’t pop like party balloons after being pierced but slowly deflate which could take days or even weeks. the US have been experimenting with them for several years and it wouldn’t surprise me if they are doing something similar to another country.

            https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/40638/what-we-know-about-the-high-tech-balloons-lingering-off-the-coasts-of-the-u-s-recently

          • Hi George.

            I am, thank you.

            That is it for me. The UK spy as much as anyone, so it is not the Chinese actions but the response.

            I think Spy may be right, possibly caught out.

        • I thought there were agreements between the nuclear powers that we are actually allowed to fly surveillance aircraft over each others facilities for verification purposes?

        • Well said. The anti American comments on this site in general are disappointing, especially considering the RN and RAF would be flying 40 year old junk Harriers if it wasn’t for the US and their innovation and the F35 program. America is the worlds number one super power that has jumped into save Europe way too many times. And literally gets no thanks for it.

          • Last night on Sky News two reporters covering different stories both referred to China as a superpower. When did that happen?

          • Depends on the definition of a super power. On paper they are by and far more powerful than any other nation other than the US and even then in a land war they massively out number the US. Whether they are a paper tiger like Russia or a real threat, who knows.

      • I am an American, and do mot much like it when a communist dictatorship spies on my country. OTH spying on communist dictatorships is perfectly ok.😎

          • I wonder why the US shot this ballon down with a Sidewinder? Surely cannon fire would have been better – then they could have shot it down over land and recovered the bits and pieces far easier.

          • I’d read there was concern that cannon fire would go straight through it and onwards down in a dangerous ballistic arc.

          • Not sure how dangerous a cannon round, having hit the target and falling just under gravity would be, especially over rural or desert areas.
            Not usual for the US military to be quite so H&S minded.

        • To be fair we the UK and US have even on occasion spied on each other…it’s like a song” 🎼🎼🎼 and we all spy together 🎼🎼🎼”

          • The US is not allowed to ‘spy’on its own citizens. To get round that, other 5 eyes do it for them when requested and hand over the data etc..

          • Well known Andy. NSA return the favour here, though we are more that capable of spying on our population, and do.

          • The snowdeb leaks proved it, but it’s been well known for years that each nation used the other to spy on its own people.

        • Exactly right. Also please ignore some anti American sentiments in this site. Not everyone feels that way and I for one love Americans and am always grateful for their leadership and incredible generosity and sacrifice to keep the world safe.

          • Join the club, most of the world dislikes the Brits. We are disliked because of British self feeling of being better than other nations, just like the US. I am generally embarrassed of my fellow national when I’m abroad

          • It’s mainly an English self feeling of being better. Quite a few times I’ve been abroad simply saying the words I’m not English I’m from Scotland has helped😂😂😂👍🏻

      • I though the Chinese response was the best…sort of came down to “ really so very sorry that’s terrible…but it’s a ballon and the wind blew it in the wrong direction….bad wind….naughty wind…we apologise for the antisocial behaviour of the wind”.

        clever really, a ballon full of instruments gives you loads of denyability…..sorry it was meant do go left not right….an aircraft alway goes where you meant it to,

        • It is clever. The orbits of spy satellites are tracked and sensitive materials moved under cover. If this was missed that defence may be negated.

      • Yes, All sides play that game. MOD has the Zyphia solar powered plane. When it comes to Navy matters. I think HMS Prince of Wales will also be coming back into full operational service during August.

        • Yes, agree. Extra work to do now.. Working on both Port and Starboard sides of the propeller shaft. I did also read, when it comes to the F35’s there should be another 7 UK pilots trained by August. This will add to the extra two pilots that graduated this week. So I guess by August the UK trained pilot numbers for the F35 will be around 41.

      • They’ve taken the threat very seriously indeed Daniele, I hope the piolt remembered to take a needle!

        “The Pentagon sent F-22 fighter jets to track the balloon Wednesday, leading to flights being temporarily grounded at the Billings airport, the senior defense official said, but decided against shooting down the balloon.

        Secretary of Defense Lloyd J. Austin III called a meeting of senior military and defense officials on Wednesday to discuss how to handle the situation, the officials said.”

      • I seem to remember them invading a canal somewhere in Panama in 1987 after telling us off about invading one in 1956. Totally not double standards 😀

        • Slightly different in terms of “backyard geography” Suez is not in the national security sphere of influence for the UK, well, not in the same way that PANAMA is to America and Monroe Doctrine.

          • It was in 1956 when Britain still had significant territories in the far east and the Suez Canal was the only way to maintain a substantial fleet there. The distance from London to Suez is shorter than the distance from Washington to Panama. Indeed the parallels are almost identical. The only major differences was we did it in the 1950’s when people were slightly less evolved in their attitudes to colonialism and the US did it in the late 80’s when the concept of colonialism was completely alien to most civilised countries.

      • Just polictics. Same with the constant outcry over hacking or subsidiaries etc. Two faceness in international relations to gain support of media locally is done by everyone

      • It’s like an unwritten rule of spying, to spy on someone you must ensure you cannot be seen, otherwise it’s just blatant staring! A balloon leisurely floating over in easy visibility broke the rule it seems, people saw the peepers! I expect more from China in the coming years but I do wonder what exactly the info is that is worth harvesting via these methods. The Chinese are master class at stealing IP and tech but what can you get from a balloon.

    • Getting in a panic over a stray balloon, yet having TikTok which has to supply info to the Chinese communist party on lots of Americans phones is ok🙈

  2. There was a bit on Forces news stating that PoW has now got problems with her other propeller shaft, The cause of the problem is still being withheld/investigated but as it dose not seem to be affecting the QE then it seems it is not a design problem but probably accidental damage.

    • I don’t think she has “problems” per say from what I’ve read. The propellor is working fine. More like they’ve found manufacturing defects that could lead to the prop being damaged as well and are going to pre-emptively fix it.

      • That’s exactly it. It was stated in a select committee hearing that the issue affected both propshafts, but on neither of those on HMS QE.

        • Which begs the question why? A problem on one could be bad luck but with two when no such problem has occurred on its heavily worked older sister certainly seems strange. I wonder if there was any change in the design of it between the two or surely there had to be a repeated defect in production or installing them.

          • I don’t think it’s been stated whether it’s a manufacturing error, or damage incurred by the ship. If it was damage incurred, ie by striking the sea floor, then it’s possible similiar damage was done to both prop shafts, but with one slightly worse than the other.

      • It’s good this came up in home waters..which I suppose is why you do lots of training cruises in home waters before heading off into the blue.

      • Or is it like the T45 fiasco politicians insisting vessels get accepting into service knowing there is an underlining fault with the vessel so it costs 2 to 3 time more money to put right not to mention the embarrassment to the RN and armed forces in general.

    • It’s said the ghost of Princess Diana can be seen by the light of the full moon, and…. Er, I don’t know where I’m going with this that’s not a bit tasteless. Better stop now.

  3. Looking at the Texans, and given the need for ‘numbers as a quality in itself’ for the RAF, then could the UK go for a layered defence of skies and include Texans or similar prop fighters rather than only fast jets? i.e. just add a couple of 20mm canons to ’em, or a few Sidewinder to counter low flying slow drones/cruise missiles, or surface threats around the UK’s shores?

    • Absolutely. All our training aircraft should have a dual role. I think we should occasionally send a hawk or a protector drone on QRA when the bears come over the North Sea.

      Incidentally are the Hawks still grounded?

    • Hawk T1’s were fitted for Sidewinder to act as a second layer years ago. Sort of mopping up if nasty Russians got past the amazing Tornado “interceptor”. Remember reading some zobbit instructor saying the the present Hawk is wired too for AAM should the need arise. Like most things claimed now I take it with a pinch of salt. We have been approached in our village to form an anti drone militia with our shotguns by the MoD to protect a local airbase. None toxic ammunition to be used of course. Negotiations are stuck presently as the proposed membership of said militia does not meet MoD diversity and inclusivity criteria.

      • “We have been approached in our village to form an anti drone militia with our shotguns by the MoD to protect a local airbase.”

        Do we still have any Lee Enfields in storage 😂

      • You need diversity as different members will want to shoot different things. To make sure all drones are destroyed, you need rabid righties and crazy commies, as well as a few looney liberals in case unaligned drones find a third way.

      • Crikey. Ant-Drone shotgun militia. All very Captain Mainwaring. If I don’t manage to sell my big heavy lift drone on eBay I may have to send it over to you for target practice.

        • Please do, the nontoxic, eco-friendly, none binary type of cartridge, although tested on pheasant and a few duck, needs experimentation on man made materials. Can I please ask you to send a drone made of biodegradable plastic though?

          • Back in the day (1980s), the yankeedoodles were very found of blasting away at the UK Airship Industries airships flying over America. Wasted quite a bit of helium and pilots did not seem to notice until inspection time..

          • 😂 They changed their habits after that. “Dropping bombs on brown people” became the fashionable thing, that stayed in vogue for decades and was even adopted by our heroes. It was called “Brimstone on a Toyota”, a real bargain too at £100,000 a pop!

          • One of the funniest jokes ever on TV. Also I like the crows wanting ‘guns & cash’ joke in Mackenzie Crook’s version of Worzle Gummage.

            Met Philip Madoc once. Lovely chap. Recited one of the poems he used to do on Max Boyce’s ‘Poems & Pints’ TV show to me from memory as he was just going through his archive back home.
            R.I.P. Philip Madoc

    • Or indeed close air for combined ops in Ukraine, if Gov, or Govs not ruling out supplying aircraft? Always have been a fan of these prop driven types in that role. Politically, difficult to say they represent a clear and present danger (to anyone but the F-ellow – still 🤘) when fighting to regain your occupied sovereign territory.

      • Yep and tactical air support roles. Load ’em up with Brimstones. What’s not to like, and would give the RAF something useful to do in a fight. I’m a big fan or re-forming RAF Coastal Command and give ’em some low-coast, long-range prop things with teeth.

      • Yep, but the chance of zooming around the skies in a low-cost, high(ish) performance fighter may help release the inner Biggles in some and bring them forward.

    • In a high-low end mix, you have numbers on the low-end and quality on the high-end.

      The RAF has F35 and Typhoon for high-end.
      But for low-end, drones are the future, you can churn them out, use them for CAS, and not worry about losing them.

      The most difficult, expensive, and long-lead ‘part’ to replace is a pilot.

    • Interesting thought, a whole new opportunity for relatively cheap turboprop aircraft might be opening up. Brings back memories of the BinbrookTrials testing Lightning’s against Spitfires to see if Redtop missiles could lock on to slow moving piston engined Mustangs in Malaysia.

      Maybe in addition to drones being adopted we need to consider indeed what manned platforms would be useful with this secondary role. Uk is likely something of a fairly unique scenario in this regard perhaps with large open sea approaches. Would the inevitable Committees ever come up with a useful answer mind as a threat analysis would need to be carried out to ascertain both likely threat and the best way to counter it in addition to our fast jets. Indeed how quickly would such threats change I wonder.

      • I suppose I’m thinking something small, slowish, and flexible. It could be anything really. Could be un-manned, but for low-level mark-one eyeball stuff then manned with a couple of .50cal would be useful. (Chinese balloons etc.)

        Back in the day I think the RAeE trialled a Lightning v Spit. Provided the Spit saw the Lightning come it always came out on top. Various online simulator communities have tried pitting warbids v modern fighters with mixed results.

        For a maritime patrol-type role my vote would go for a 21st Century version of the Mossie (quite stealthy) fitted with ejector seats.:) Or, for biger bucks some sort of long-endurance seaplane.

        Yeah. Don’t have much faith in UK ‘Committees’ having the imagination.

    • You what, Sidewinders, how unpatriotic. Nearly spilt my tea. ASRAAM dear boy!

      Actually you do have a point. During the London Olympics, Pumas and Lynx were used as a trip wire and had sharpshooters on board, if light aircraft got anywhere near Docklands.

      Considering a Cessna would max out at 140 knots. Helicopters were the only military aircraft considered for the job.The helicopters would fly alongside and try to contact them on Guard. If the failed to respond, they would have instructions on a whiteboard. If they failed to respond, the sharpshooter was brought into play.

      If the aircraft managed to get away from the helicopter. Ground units with Rapier and Starstreak were then allowed to engage. Anything faster, was intercepted by Typhoons.

      Rather than using a Texan, something like a Reaper would be just as good. Plus it has a much greater endurance.

      • Yes DaveyB. I was trying to play nice and not be too controversial by suggesting using Texans and US Sidewinders. My preference would always be for UK designed and produced stuff – unless it was rubbish.

        I just like the idea of something being manned for its flexibility and mark-one eyeball capability. So just choose a prop kite in the 150 to 500kts range with good endurance and stick a couple Vickers MGs and ASRAAMs on it 🙂

        Oh, and a silk scarf for the Biggles.😊

        • There are a number of ex-WW2 warbirds that would do. The better option I think, would be a largish twin engined aircraft like a Beaufighter or a Mosquito. These can be flown at relatively low stall speeds, but have the internal volume available for fuel, so will have good range/endurance.

          Another option would be the De Havilland Hornet. It could be configured for a second crewman if required. Using a modernized carbon fiber monocogue structure and skin, with a pair of scimitar bladed turboprops along with a redesigned main wing incorporating powered flight controls. Would produce a more rugged and responsive, but just as light an airframe. With a similar if not better performance and being more fuel efficient. Sadly won’t sound as good as a pair of Merlins though!

          Mount a pair of 27mm Mauser in the nose. No need to worry about harmonizing the guns as they’ll be bore sighted in the nose. It could carry over 2 tons of payload, but this can be improved upon. Fit it with FLIR plus a cheaper version of the F35’s EOTS for good passive detection and tracking. Could also mount a relatively low powered (cheap) radar. To help in poor weather navigation, target searching and weapons aiming.

          Perhaps this would be suitable for the low end type of missions, where a UAV isn’t deemed suitable. A modernized Hornet would be a very interesting project. Pure fantasy, but would be bloody fun to fly.

          • Singing to the choir here sister.😉

            Yes I completely agree. A fast, medium-size prop-based kite with good payload and range would be great for maritime and other stuff. Maybe better to go for a 2-seater though.

            Yep Hornet, Mossie, or Beaufighter would give somebody a very bad day if needed. Just also stick some ejector seats in and a Halfords GPS and the jobs a good ‘un. For the price of a single F35 you could a hangar full and still have change to take everybody down the pub.

            My old dad worked a bit on the old Dh Hornet. He always said it was fantastic but a real git to work on from a maintenance perspective as everything highly streamlined and rammed in. Said the same about Concorde much later.

          • …P.S. I think the Hornet’s fuselage concrete former moulds are still in the flower beds at the Dh Museum.

  4. “Hello Black leader, this is Q.Sorry we can’t land you on,no arrester gear fitted”. “Hello Q, that’s ok, no deck hooks fitted ol chap”. “Bye the way Q there’s a tube in the water behind you”. “Ohhh no there’s not” “Ohh yesss there is”…… 🙃🙄😳🤣.

  5. The future perhaps and not too distant I hope.

    “Aeralis and AirTanker have signed a memorandum of understanding (MOU) to explore future flying training and air combat support opportunities.

    Announced on 30 January, the MOU will see the two UK-based companies identify and assess upcoming contracts in military flying training, defence operational training, and combat air support roles for the modular jet aircraft being developed by Aeralis.”

    LINK

    • Whilst a great idea just like to see a prototype up and doing tests. All seems to take forever to manufacture. If the RAF think this has got legs throw them more money than now and get something tangible. Fibreglass models and ppts don’t count.

    • Yes, the UK Gov just needs to get on with it and fully support Aeralis to fill the gap. BAe has too many fingers in other pies to be boved bout the UK, so other UK aerospace manufacturers are most welcome.

  6. Meanwhile, Prince Of Wales encounters a further issue.

    HMS Prince of Wales: Second shaft problem adds to repair list for aircraft carrier

    “We will be repairing the port shaft at the same time as the starboard shaft,” said Vice Admiral Paul Marshall, giving evidence to the committee.”

    LINK

    • No rush guvnor, after the election Labour will stick it in long term storage or flog it off to India or Chile 😂

      • Another very big mistake then and at a similar price no doubt depending on the rate of exchange at the time 😂

        “US-based General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc (GA-ASI) has offered to transfer two company-owned MQ-9A Reaper unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), a ground-control station, and related equipment to Ukraine for the symbolic price of USD1 to help the war-torn country improve its airborne intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) capabilities, according to GA-ASI’s chief executive.”

      • Evidence of that anywhere or just right wing media spoon fed drivel?

        Last i heard all parties in the commons were talking about the need to increase defence spending in light of the new threats faced. All apart from the accountant in number 10 who prefers counting money than spending it.

        Not to mention the minor detail it was labour that commissioned the 2 carriers in the first place! The second of which was lucky to survive the tories raping of the defence budget, only the fact it was too far gone to cancel saved it.

        • Look, I had decades in gooberment employment both in and out of uniform. Nothing but nothing shocks or surprises me anymore. A country that cannot even care for its elderly veterans, or in fact any elder for that matter, frankly disgusts me. I saw perfectly good updated aircraft, ships, and other equipment sold off for a pittance leaving capability gaps for years. Trust in any politician or party is pointless. They are all full of BS.

          • I don’t trust any of them either, and I’m a current government employee (though i prefer to consider myself a tax payer employee…).

            But to continue on with the vile greed driven scum we have now would be madness. The country is transforming into a third world shit hole in front of our own eyes.

          • ‘But to continue on with the vile greed driven scum we have now would be madness’ The Civil Service is impartial right ? Equally happy to serve any elected Govt ? Thank God for that !

          • Like i said, my feelings are I work for the taxpayer, for their benefit, rather than the government.

            Whoever is in government is irrelevant to the job I do. That’s impartial enough for me. I’m not selling my soul and turning a blind eye to what goes on.

          • Best wishes bud. I went on to work in mental health for a long time. Now retired but I do some voluntary work mainly with vets. The prevalence has increased with awareness, the younger end is more inclined to talk than “our” age group, its good of course but I would say all help comes from the voluntary sector. In mainstream mental health, it was and is more of a revolving door. The NHS is not equipped, nor has it much interest in veteran mental health. Most NHS staff do not understand service life, or indeed want to even try and understand. Makes my pee boil that a country can treat vets in this way.

        • Really helps when the chancellor signing off the deal happens to be the MP for the yard where it’s being built. Bit of genius on all sides. Osbourne would have scrapped POW in a second in 2010 if it was not cheaper to just build.

      • Not with the current problems they’re facing with recruitment. I’m guessing this is across the board?

        “The Irish Naval Service (INS) has been forced to mothball its two Róisín (PV 80)-class offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) as a result of ongoing recruitment and retention issues.”

        • They are down about 2k across the board but the navy’s engineering section is being particularly hard hit due to private sector opportunities, so far the ,sun issue for the AC is reliability issues.

        • Their “army” recently put out feelers for commercial thermal sights. Rumour control said they could not afford milspec. Guess they know that the UK has “got their six” as usual.

        • He’s back again after an afternoon on the bottle and no doubt brow beaten by the wife 😂trying to take it out his frustration via the keyboard and still hasn’t seen with all his “supposed RAF friends he alludes to” that the government are looking into upgrading the Tranche 1 aircraft at the moment 😂

          Does Nigel still think selling them to Ireland is a good idea if we fail to upgrade them or even Ukraine? YES, HE DOES! But, like us, we also need pilots to fly them.

          Did you not tell Graham Moore some weeks back that you don’t reply to my posts?

          NOBODY LIKES A LIAR MR BLAY!

          ROBERT BLAY

          Caught red-handed again telling porkies to cover up his lack of knowledge on any given subject to gain some credibility filled with cheap comments to fill in the gaps. What a very sad little man.

          January 15 2023 19:43

          “I think this article explains it in plain enough English for you Nigel from a reputable website. I know you love a link. Or do you still think 6th gen will be available from 2025? that was a cracker of a prediction.” 

          REPLY

          No doubt the clown in the room didn’t read my post on UKDJ fifteen days ago regarding Tempest and makes a complete fool of himself once again.

          Give it up Blay and stay off the wine, even I feel embarrassed for you.

          UKDJ December 28 2022

          F135 engine upgrade receives £62m funding boost

          Some good news nonetheless!

          “The UK MoD FCAS director, Richard Berthon, told Airforce Technology that a single supersonic demonstrator aircraft will be manufactured for the 2027 first flight, although declined to comment on which systems will be initially tested on the platform.
          “The flight itself is one milestone of many milestones,” Berthon said.

          Work in progress
          The design has also flown 100 hours digitally, testing key elements ahead of the start of platform manufacture, while the flight demonstrator platform was described by officials as being “low observable”.

          On 18 July engine manufacturers, Rolls-Royce also presented details of Project Orpheus, a programme to develop and run a new design jet turbine in under 18 months, which would be used to inform propulsion requirements for Tempest.”

          LINK

          • Allow me to help you, Mr Blay, it really is old news.
            Keep up!

            “The UK has more state-of-the-art F-35 fast jets than pilots because of problems with flying training, the defence secretary has revealed.

            The Ministry of Defence only has just over 20 of the next-generation £100m warplanes but cannot even man all of them, Ben Wallace confirmed.”

            “It’s a shambles,” a former Royal Air Force officer said.

            Tally Hoe, Tally Hoe,😂

      • Never in a million years mate. For some reason when I type “news” into Google most of the links are the The Guardian or the Independent. ( Google never biased of course, my arse..)
        The other one that keeps coming up is that blasted excuse for a newspaper, Express.

        Lunatics.

        • 😊 Tbh no media can be trusted. Objectivity and investigative journalism are a thing of the past. I trawl the web now and speak to people in different countries, then draw my own conclusions. That of course makes me a tinfoil-loving Q Anon fascist according to some. For myself? I am just a total cynic with an infantryman’s humour.

  8. Those empty 30mm RWS spots are still driving me a bit nuts. Anyone else still feel the same? Any news an additional defensive armament/decoys for these carriers?
    Another thing that I think is a wasted potential and space with the T45 CAMM upgrade, is the 4×6 fit out. It’s really minimal, they can try for 6×6 or even 8×6 to complement the 48 Asters. And considering they’re bypassing having Mk41s despite the space already being there for these VLS. They could look at making the 6 CAMM silo an 8 with the same space footprint. Hope there’s enough space allowed for future CAMM-EX. These T45s still have a very long life yet pre- T83, why not maximise them a wee bit more within the PIP?.

    • For the qe2 I think 2×40 mm bofors with P3 ammo like on t31 would be great with an additional 2x sites for camm. Extends your engagement envelope a lot further. All commonality with what is used elsewhere too. Below theoretical ranges but still 🙂 . I guess far to sensible to do

    • Agree you would hope they maximise the numbers of CAMM cold launchers on all the escorts.

      With the carriers and escorts I think they should where possible be replacing everything ( 20mm to 30mm ) with Bofors 40mm mark 4.

      • Agreed. Even as far back as WW2 20mm/30mm was found too puny, especiaslly against Kamikazes & what’s worse than Kamikazes if not anti ship missiles?

    • They are due to get NSM on them too so they will sit where the Harpoon tubes were which is over the Mk41 VLS spot.

      With

      48 Aster
      32 CAMM
      8 x NSM
      4.5” gun
      2 x 30mm
      2 x CIWS

      It is a big load out of weapons.

      Given it is an AAW destroyer I’m not sure why you would won’t to just add more ‘stuff’ to it.

      It has got enough missiles to shoot down most non NATO airforces by itself.

      Otherwise you risk going all Russian and having ships dripping with system that get impossible to maintain.

      As we have seen with the Russians they don’t actually have that much in the way of accurate deliverable munitions.

      • Hi SB, i believe the 2xMK41 sport is behind the forward 4.5.gun and not behind the Asters.
        Agree, the NSM is a welcome addition, I’d argue for 4×4 of these too, 2×4 can be FFBNW. WIth 10-15 years of service life left why truly develop the T45s post PIP I also think the CAMM/NSM are quite light comparatively so why not maximise their loads too. Understand their primary role is AAW but it’s good to have a strong secondary abilities and all before the T83.

        • The thing is what do you really get for all the bother of opening a T45 up and inserting the VLS?

          Another 8 slots?

          No point is used them for CAMM as that is a crazy expensive way to use those slots. You are also creating unnecessary complexity if you have dedicated CAMM and some in a VLS. BTW I don’t think CAMM in Mk41 is an active product used anywhere else so all the debugging would fall to RN budgets. Nope keep it simple keep it separate.

          In a CSG context T26 or hopefully T31/32 will have VLS capabilities. Also if it was a budget choice I’d put VLS on T31 and not T45. But what do I know!

          • There’s an empty area just forward of the current silos, which is currently used as a gym. It is deep enough for longer mk41, according to (Link)

          • That’s looks a bit cramped? I thought it might be wider, assuming the flag is forward facing…lol.

          • Seem to remember MBDA offering triple packed CAMM in mk41 but no one ever took it up.

            Cold gas ejection in CAMM main selling point it can be out anywhere. Total waste of a mk41 VLS.

          • Yup, which is LCS based with AEGIS libraries.

            Which means RN would have to pay for the integration into the BAE CMS…..as I said.

            Not worth it to use expensive Mk41 VLS slots…..

          • I wasn’t advocating it’s use for the RN,just letting you know that it is now possible and has achieved a sale.

          • I agree Mk 41 on Type 31 before Type 45. However I’d like to see some Slyver A70 slots on one of the T45s eventually to test out Aster 30 1NT. Especially as they are going to open up them all up to add missile silos anyway.

            I don’t think it would be a huge deal to quad pack CAMM in Mk 41. It has already been fired from ExLS, which is supposed to be Mk41 compatible. Quad packing CAMM in Mk41 might increase the potential CAMM user base. It’s a brilliant missile system and more sales means cheaper price.

          • The truck launched Sky Sabre 2×4 CAMM seems quite compact so I why the 6 pack myshroom silo is not now a 8 pack seems wasteful. I know an inheritance from the T32s but surely they can improve on that? As I mentioned before, I hope these silos can handle CAMM-ER/ EX if they’re ever adopted by the RN.

          • I wrote to MBDA about the CAMM density on RN ships (it’s similar on Italian ships for the CAMM-ER). Having mentioned the density in ExLS, they referred me back to “the customer”. The density on UK ships seems to be a RN requirement. I have wondered if the CAMM-EX family might be fatter and it’s all intelligent planning, but I have real trouble believing it.

          • In a CSG context a pair of T23/26s won’t be anywhere near the carrier, they’ll be off at distance hunting for subs. This is why I think if a hot situation develops need a CSG, a T31 or two will be sent as goalkeepers for the carrier. With the two T45s being the screen.

          • The dust point is true.

            The second point is moot: what is protecting the STUFT?

            There is a gap in the numbers/logic?

            A gap filled by T23?

          • Very true. We don’t have the numbers of warships like we had in 1982, where only a third of the fleet was deployed.

            I guess it would depend on the context of why the CSG in this case was needed. If it’s something that threatens NATO, then we could expect help from other NATO navies. However if it’s another Falklands scenario. We may struggle to provide enough ships to protect not only the CSG, but also the amphibs, RFAs and like you say STUFT.

            At some point the amphibs will need to head towards a beach. Similarly the RFAs etc will need replenishing. So softens up and provides cover for the beachhead, plus who guards the RFAs in transit? Realistically to mount anything close to another Falklands campaign, will need every warship the Navy could muster!

          • Hope these T31s have at least 24 CAMM. The AAW A140 variant can have over 3 times this so there’s potential to missile-up if required.

        • New T45 missile load 48 Aster +24 CAMM = 72 is an improvement but 80 is better. If in a conflict and can’t be refilled at sea, I’d appreciate the extra 8 shots available and so would other ships that’s its covering for!
          Dutch Tromp and RAN Hobart’s AAW Destroyers carry 32 SAM +64 ESSM = 96. Not mentioning ABs and the equivalent Japanese, Korean and Chinese ships that orobhabe even more.

    • The carriers both need Sea Ceptor – wait until you see the forthcoming BBC documentary showing QE2 being buzzed by Russian Sukhoi jets

    • If both Italy and Spain have done theirs. Then there is precedence for the RAF to be upgraded to. Though the aircraft will need new bulkheads for the radar, if it was to be fitted with Radar 2 AESA. But the Italians have done theirs, so why not. The big question is cost. Would it be cheaper to purchase zero hour airframes, than reconditioned and modified Tranche 1s.

      • Its a complicated decision I think- cost versus T4s, time to convert vs time to build new and hours you would get out of them vs new build. My guess is that conversion is an attractive proposal; I would guess you would get more planes for the same money, and quicker. Tempting if its cheaper for the same number of airframes – you might want to spend the difference on other equipment; more E7s, A400s, K9 artillery, CR3s…

      • I wouldn’t bother upgrading them – just put them in climate controlled storage just in case,much cheaper,less risk and perfectly able to deal with their most likely adversaries as they are,spend the money saved elsewhere.

  11. The balloon was a tad on the large size. It’s payload was reported to have been the size of 3 buses. Probably not the weight of 3 bases but size wise it was big. 50,000 feet. Higher than most aircraft. Except the US F22 which shot it down.

      • Why American again? Can we not build our own?
        I remember the Cardington hangers having Airships, though a bit different I know.
        The MoD/Army was secretively mucking about with one at Middle Wallop.

        • We have hybrid airships; in fact about a decade back British airships were trialled by the US Army for a very similar purpose except at a lower height. Just a guess, but I think it’s integrating all the sensors and comms we aren’t that good at.

        • What ever happened to that big airship they were building in there. I know they did a test run and it crashes but have they carried on or has it just been abandoned.

        • Back in the 1980s Airship Industries was designing and producing innovative airships: the Skyship S500, and S600. I think they built 12 in the end. They used high tech materials like Kevlar gondola (made by Slingsby), and Fibrelam etc., and were filled with helium. The UK Gov were not interested, but they managed to soldier on for several years using money from the City. Design offices in York St London and assembled in Cardington and all over the world.

          The real interest in them came from the US Navy who had a $15billion contract on offer for a long-endurance airship to sit out mid-Atlanic ocean to try and detect low-level Russian cruise missiles being fired from subs. This was the Russians’ counter to Ronnie Raygun’s ‘Star Wars’ defence shield. Airship Industries teamed up with Westinghouse for an AWACS fit into a large airship design, and were years ahead of rival designs from Boeing and Goodyear.

          Unfortunately AI were always running out of money, and eventually were taken over by the Bond Corporation (Alan Bond/Swan Lager fame), who were not interested in investing in capital equipment to take things forward. So it really was a case of the age old British disease around funding.

          I’m not up on what Hybrid Air Systems at Cardington are trying to do – especially after the crash of Airlander a few years ago now.

          I presume they are also trying to solve the fundamental problems with airship designs, such as for: ground handling; what to do in a storm; and the ‘superheat’ effect from the sun on the envelope (for military use gives a big thermal signature).

          What the Americans wound up doing I don’t know, but I can imagine quite a few UFO sightings are related to their later efforts.

          • “quite a few UFO sightings are related to their later efforts.”

            I have heard that explanation for some sightings, which is quite possible, namely ones at low level, walking pace, with little or no noise. Some though. not all.

  13. Ahh, why not a sqdn of Westland Wyvern’s (updated with a few bits of 21st tech). No need for expensive WildCats with Martlets & Venoms, just good old 20mm and rockets. That’ll keep those pesky swarm boats at bay.

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