HMS Portland tracked Russian cruise missile submarine Severodvinsk and Akula-class attack submarine Vepr as they made their underwater journey south along the Norwegian coast from the Arctic.
In a news release, the Royal Navy say that the Type 23 frigate shadowed the submarines as they surfaced separately in the North Sea, north west of Bergen, Norway, on July 16 and 19, before NATO and Baltic forces took over duties as they continued to St Petersburg for Russian Navy Day celebrations on July 31.
“Portland and her specialist Merlin helicopter – both equipped with cutting-edge sonars, sensors and torpedoes for submarine-hunting operations – reported on the movements of the Russian Northern Fleet vessels. One of the RAF’s new long-range maritime patrol aircraft, the P8 Poseidon, also worked closely with HMS Portland to hunt and track the submarines.
This operation comes soon after HMS Portland took part in NATO’s premiere submarine-hunting exercise. This large scale joint exercise proved to be the ideal prelude for this type of live operation.”
HMS Portland’s Commanding Officer, Commander Tim Leeder, was quoted as saying:
“Our success on operations marks the culmination of many months of specialist training and exercises. Critically, the cohesiveness of Royal Navy, RAF and our allies capabilities ensures that we are capable of conducting and sustaining these types of anti-submarine operations in the North Atlantic. It is testament to my sailors’ dedication and professionalism, alongside that of our allies, that we are able to conduct this strategically crucial role.”
Why would you surface?
To intimidate.
I would have thought it more intimidating staying submerged with a catch me if you can attitude.
Mark wrote:
The two boats were on route to St Petersburg for the annual Navy day
https://i.postimg.cc/wTyNBPJy/Opera-Snapshot-2022-07-22-152512-www-navyrecognition-com.png
A regular yearly trip what set this one a part is usually the subs sail on the surface all the way, but this year they sailed submerged and decided to surface off the coast of Bergan which is also the home of Norways alrgest naval base.
Sending a message to Norway regards the vulnerability of Bergan Naval base to a strike from the sea and even better to the Western public regards how if it wanted to Moscow could really spoil their day . I mean so many commentators here don’t appear to have realised the subs were in Norwegian waters and not British, before heading into Danish/German/Polish/Swedish/Finish waters.
Hi Farouk, it’s a bit simpler then that. The boats are on there way to St Petersburg, so have to enter the Baltic. The only way in or out is via the Kattegat Strait, a series of islands between Denmark/Sweden. It is very narrow, shallow and twisty. Far far safer to conduct a surface passage then attempt it dived, where there is very little room for a SM to manoeuvre should it meet a oncoming MV etc.
Deep,
Thanks for that, I know about the Kattegat strait, but to be fair the subs surfaced north west of Bergan which placed them in the Norwegian sea around 400 miles away from the KS. Also the Severodvinsk was the first in the new Yasen class of strike subs Moscow is constructing. Just for the info I gleaned the above from reading the Barents Observer which reports on a lot of stuff which is missed by other news orgs. (if you do follow the link, click on the top link on the right regards the submarine in question)
Hi mate, I wouldn’t dismiss any of the comments regarding why/where they surfaced, as you correctly point out, it’s a fair way from the KS.
It’s worth noting that they will have been trailed from the Barents before even turning the corner and heading South, as NATO likes to keep an eye on them, so if the surface off of Bergen or elsewhere nobody will get too excited.
By having Portland close by clearly implying ‘we also know where you are’
It’s all part of the game going back to the days of the cold war. Yes perhaps with a tad more significance with what’s happening in the UKR I grant you.
Hi Deeps, its all part of the game. Its not like we haven’t surfaced a boat in the past to make sure its ‘seen’ as a visual deterrent/warning/mess with minds. As you say, the Russians will be doing a surface transit through the narrow bits so why not screw with people along the way, its kind of what submarines are for. 😉 That and 5 star jollies. 😀
Absolutely Andy, but much preferred the 5* jollies and hotel accommodation!!!🤭
Tru dat bro, tru dat. 😎
Just usual russian up yours attitude we’ll do what we want and we know you can’t stop it
No, they are effectively denied the Baltic now so will flounce around at every opportunity given. They are being throttled slowly.
Not very intimidating when you surface and a Brit Warship sitting waiting?
Don’t you recognise propaganda when you see it? Or do you live in a cave?
Looks like a floating log
To communicate, report they were about to make their run through the Baltic.
Don’t need to surface to communicate.
You have the massive one way ELF antennas that allow a message to be sent to a deep diving sub but the bandwidth pretty much only allows ‘XX sub go to the surface to receive a message’ (64 characters) and the submarine cant reply.
For a submarine to communicate they are forced to go close to the surface a raise a communication antenna or deploy a towed communication buoy which has a cable between 30-50 meters. Going this shallow and broadcasting is as easy for NATO ASW assets to pinpoint as if they were on the surface.
WZ wrote:
I take it the Russian captian is called Beaky:
So Timid Toad, his eyes a-popping,
Into the woodland night went hopping
Captain Beaky waved his hand, followed by his trusty band
That’s Artful Owl and Reckless Rat, and above the trees flew Batty
Bat.
“Stop!” Said Beaky, “I hear squeaking!”
“It’s Batty Bat” said Owl, “He’s speaking!”
“It’s all in code,” said Reckless Rat
Said Owl, “I’ll just decipher that.”
“A dash, a dot, two short, two long�
I rather think we’ve got it wrong.
It reads ‘can clearly see the road,
Hissing Sid has captured Toad!'”
“Quick men!” said Beaky, “No delay!
“You mustn’t let him get away!”
And leaping off, said “Follow me!”
And ran head first into a tree.
“Dot dot dot” squeaked Batty Bat.
Said Beaky, “Quick! Decipher that!”
Said Reckless Rat, “Perhaps we’re gaining?”
“No,” said Owl. “He says�it’s raining”
Article states the subs were tracked underwater but then says as they surfaced. One’s a hell of a lot easier than the other, but it’s not clear to me at least whether above, below or both actually applied.
I would think both applied.. Otherwise a leap of Faith and Coincidence that the Warship just happened to be there when the subs popped up, don’t you think?
BBC does state:
The Navy said it tracked the pair as they travelled underwater south along the Norwegian coast from the Arctic.
IUSS will have had them all the way down before surfacing and NATO would be aware the moment they leave the Kola.
Mm, it was more the article’s phrasing that left a question mark 👍
I would suspect that they had both got as far south in transit as they wished and then surfaced to pass through the Skagerrak and the Kattegat and down the sound past Copenhagen and Malmo. I don’t know if there is some international convention governing warships passing those areas as there is for the Dardanelles, the Montreux Convention, but I reckon both the Swedes and the Danes would be pretty p*ss*d if the Russians tried to do it submerged!
It’s well documented that the Swedes are very aggressive when it comes to submarines in thier territorial waters.
I am old enough to remember “Whiskey on the rocks”. You can understand where the Swedes are coming from.
Me too. A classic headline.
And the track marks from their seabed ops vessels they found. They found the same off of Alaska too.
So nice of the Russians to provide the RN & RAF with ASW training.
Wondered why we had so many US boats visiting Faslane over such a short period of time what 1-2 weeks ago!!
Great point. I was thinking along the lines that there was some strategic signaling going on but they were probably tracking these subs already or getting in a position to track and get some intelligence on them.
I imagine that the Virginia class SSGN that came in last of the 3 might well have been involved in trailing them?
They will have been tracked by various NATO assets before they turned the corner out of the Barents and headed South. Harks back to the old cold war days.
Sometimes there is an element of clown pants about what is done.
If you believe that the Russian submarines would be that effective if all NATO systems we go then either you haven’t been observing the war in Ukraine or your are smoking something very interesting.
Yes, Russian subs are a, theoretical, threat but with their awful maintenance and non existent command and control how it could be crystallised is rather open to question. You also have to question how well any of the systems would work if push came to shove as the main point of failure appears to the awful Russian systems simply not working as advertised.
The UK / NATO certainly has the kit to track a missile launch from a Russian sub.
It would be suicidal for the Russian sub assuming we were not tracking it.
The record of Russian ‘naval missiles’ in Ukraine has been rather poor. They would appear to be rather easily intercepted.
And not that accurate either, any missiles launched at the U.K. would be just as likely to but the Republic of Ireland.
Or the Atlantic or France…..or maybe hit the launch platform!!
If things go Nuclear then the size of the RN is irrelevant so I’m going to ignore that and assume a conventional strike. Their cruise missiles would likely land 10 metre wide of their mark if the war in UKR is anything to go by… But anyway!
A day 1 surprise attack would have some success no doubt… Once QRA with tanker support get airborne to sanitise the airspace over the North Sea with Meteor BVR, allowing our MPA and other NATO MPA to do their business unhindered, then that picture changes rapidly.
UK based radar would offer at least a bearing on which the attacks originated from. With that in mind throw in T23 & possibly Astute – plus all manner of other NATO assets likely already in & around the area – all with some idea of where the Ru threat is launching from… & it is over quite quickly.
Follow up strikes on Russian Naval Infrastructure and Russian ports as well as sinking every surface vessel in and around the Med would cripple the Russian Navy overnight.
I’m not sure how much ordinance the Russian subs can throw. Would it be enough to cripple us? Probably not. Hurt us yes. Stop us from the retaliation noted above. No.
You’re talking a handful of Russian subs here because if the Russian Naval bases launched every available boat overnight you can bet your bottom dollar that every Naval, Airforce and Expeditionary unit in NATO would be on high alert. As we would know from satellite images.
Over & above what is planned then no I don’t think it does.
Should we wish to face Russia and also pivot to the Pacific however… Then things are tighter. Still reasonable with forward basing, but tighter.
MOD need to focus on delivery the NSBS for the RN in full and commit to a good amount of F35B & Tempest for RN & RAF then plough whatever is left in to Land Forces.
To be fair, with what came out of the IDR, then I would have to argue that we don’t really have enough assets certainly within the RN to cover all its tasking.
We are particularly short of surface escorts, ASW helicopters and SSNs.
Not saying we need to go overboard and double everything, but an extra 2-3 T26 wouldn’t go amiss, probably an extra 10-16 Merlin’s and most certainly 3-4 Astutes.
The shortage of SSNs is particularly accute, given that we are now looking at forward basing 1, possibly 2 over in Perth as part of the AUKUS agreement.
We will only have 7 when all are in service, so yes, not enough by any stretch I’m afraid.
Remember the drama when we went from 12 to 10 SSN’s ??? There were a lot of unhappy boys on SSN’s at the time knowing we were going to get run ragged. From what I gather retention is still a problem so I’d like to see us back to the ‘bare bones’ of ten SSN’s. Ain’t gonna happen any time soon as we also desperately need new bombers so its whatever comes next in the SSN world that needs to increased. That or get some AIB SSK’s in to do the sneaky stuff and let the SSN’s do the ‘high seas’ stuff charging around after the Russians and as ‘shooter’ boats.
Agree that we could do with a few more escorts too, just hope they can get the boys and girls to join up to go on them.
Yes, I had the unfortunate privilege of being on the receiving end of that great decision!
Yes the new bombers are a must, but we will see what happens with SSN(R). Believe we are currently due to get eight🤔 according to 1SL. Unfortunately that won’t be for the better part of a decade and a half, so I can see history repeating itself in the mid 30’s and the A boats being completely sha**ed before Successor gets into service.
Although not designed for a re fueling, I can see 1 or two needing it!!!
Yeah, when the RN was proudly boasting about a 25 year run on the reactor it occurred to me that the S’s and then the T’s were going well past that. As you say, I can see Astute and the mighty Bush needing a wee top up, hopefully no more than that although I’ve no idea of the complexities of this as I’m guessing its not intended. I wasn’t a ‘steam pig’ so far too technical for this callsign. 🙄
Also read recently the Chief of the Air Staff is looking for 3 more P8s – 12 he feels being the minimum required to protect the nuclear deterrent and maintain other taskings.
Again a step in the right direction, which is particularly telling WRT actual numbers is it not!
Excellent assessment. I would add absolutely incompetent General Staff planning into the mix.
Quality is the key not purely quantity, of kit, management and planning. Ukraine is a good example. But regarding quantity, bare in mind 30 Nations not just us.
Moderate increases are needed to provide operating margin.
In a crisis, with things as they stand and NATO engaged then there are numbers of effective resources that Mad Vlad can only dream of.
That may be so Jay but it does need to increase its lethality. I won’t labour the point but this is something that needs to be addressed forthwith!
Assuming they don’t do a Kursk first…
Plus many/most/all the Ruski subs that actually work have probably got NATO subs constantly tagging along their tail, with torpedo firing patterns constantly updated against multiple targets. NATO has the navies of 30 nations constantly hunting them and God knows how many underwater listening devices monitoring them. I think they would get a very big surprise If and When.
NATO has thirty Navies remember, it’s not just us. With the North Atlantic as their hunting and training area.
Your right it’s the old numbers game again 😕
What I find interesting is that the RN tracked them off the Norwegian coast, the deepest part of the North Sea is the Norwegian Trench which stretches from Oslo up to Bergen.
The average depth of the North Sea is only 90 odd metres, in some parts it is only 15m but the Norwegian Trench is over 900m. It and the Devils hole are one of the few places a sub could try to hide, but the RN found them so bad news for the Russians.
The North Sea isn’t that big and most of it is so shallow a sub would stick out like a sore thumb and don’t forget it is full of Trawlers and support ships which all have sonar.
That is very true!
There are large areas that are useless for sub activity as well as lots of monitoring of oil and gas kit.
So there is a high percentage of no go areas.
You can be sure there’s also a Brit or American sub nearby also.
The Russian sub force can’t be any worse than the Russian Army and surface fleet. lol
These 2 boats are going to transit into the Baltic which means they have to go under the Oresund bridge.
I’m just thinking of that scene from the start of the “Hunt for Red October” when the senior officers are up on the open bridge. What would happen if several buckets of Danish pork bye products fell on them ?
“1 pig and 1 pig only Vassily”
I think the law of the sea says subs have to transit on the surface if they are crossing your territory…
So if they transited the Chanel for example they would have to do it on the surface. If a sub enters your waters submerged it is considered a hostile act.
There are reasons why they transit the English Channel on the surface. Firstly at its narrowest point it is only 45m deep, which when you consider that some of the biggest ships draw 16m means it is a seriously stupid idea.
The channel is one of the busiest sea lanes on earth and the chances of collision would be horrendous.
Also in only 45m of water it would be pointless trying to hide.
The Channel was just an example of a foreign warship transiting
UK waters.. I appreciate there are other physical reasons why a surface transit is required. However the legal imperative still stands. Mind you the Russians are known to sneak into other peoples waters if they think they can get away with it.
It was being escorted by other navy’s too it wasn’t an act of aggression by the Russian navy it was pre planned months ago its gonna be part of the Russian navy day celebrations not really a big deal at all.
Glad to hear that we had one to do it