HMS Dragon and HMS Tyne have escorted Russian amphibious assault vessels through the English Channel.

A Ministry of Defence Spokesperson told me:

“As part of a unified response with our allies, the Royal Navy are monitoring the presence of Russian Ships as they transit through the English Channel. This is a normal response to transiting warships from other nations.”

Russian amphibious assault flotilla to transit English Channel

We reported earlier that amid ongoing tensions between Russia and Ukraine, the Russian navy has sortied 5 Ropucha-class landing ships and one Ivan Gren-class landing ship from their Baltic fleet, likely headed to the Black Sea.

The Ropucha-class landing ship can transport 10 main battle tanks and 340 troops or 12 BTRs and 340 troops or 3 main battle tanks, 3 2S9 Nona-S, 5 MT-LBs, 4 army trucks and 313 troops or 500 tons of cargo. The Ivan Gren-class can transport 40 BTRs or IFVs and 300 troops.

You can read more here.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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314 COMMENTS

  1. Well done RN. These Russian landing ships are probably headed into the Black Sea for possible amphibious ops against Ukraine. Hope the Turks can hold them up over their passage through the straights and send Putin’s timetable skew-whiff.

    • Are you taking bets on this?

      Any commander in defence now has Russian forces to the North, East, South and West; it could all get very tasty.

    • Australia just signed an agreement with UK Defense minister to dedicate Wharf and logistics to readily accommodate Royal Navy ships basing them selves there . You guys need more ships me thinks .

      • Sean, Where is this wharf – in Australia? How does that relate to this story?
        We do need more ships and we will increase the number of frigates in the years to come. The politicians have finally realised that imposing cuts on manpower and platform numbers relentlessly for the last 70 years has led to a navy that is too small to fully fulfil its Gobal Britain role.

        • But do we have the money or willingness in the population to spend what money we have on defence rather than health or social services for example? Global Britain is an illusion.

        • we’ve got more warships but the admiralty and the M.O.D can’t see beyond their arrogance 5 more rivers given the thai navy upgrades to their batch 2 KRABI i.e a 76 otto melara rapid fire gun which was chosen ahead of the raytheon ram 116 system two extra 30mm cannon located aft of the bridge wings with the option of martlet sometime in the future otions to fit harpoon, these are real warships and we should do the same and designate them as corvettes or light frigates add 5 more warships to todays number of 19, then, 24 ships sounds far more reasonable plus the t26 and 31 to come, things could look better very quickly.france is still sulking over the lost nuclear business with australia the U.K should look at a free transfer of dormant submarines to australia maybe in exchane for the due to retire anyway collins class ssk’s. an exra 6 submarines would go down very well with the ‘admirals. especially as they are ALREADY BUILT. there are options out there but the the u.k has GOT to start looking outside the box and explore better ways to get the very most of what they have. but six submaries and maybe 5 light frigatesagain,ALREADY BUILT should be an opportunity too good to miss.

    • There are thoughts elsewhere that these ships may, initially, be heading to Syria in order to collect troops and equipment for redeployment.

        • Agree, that is the most likely route. In comarison with previous pictures those ships are sailing well loaded. As they have plenty of ‘gear’ around Ukraine already it makes sense that at least some of the 6 are bound for Tartus.

          • You talking Cobbers as usual!
            Working hard for your Master Putin, Hay!
            I thought you might of recovered somewhat, after that meltdown you had a couple of years ago?
            It seems Not!

    • whats next a russian build up around the baltic straits?or the chinese off tiawan? it won’t need much of a spark to set it all off

  2. Today’s news.

    “The talks between the two diplomats came just a day after Russia unveiled plans for naval drills involving more than 140 warships and more than 60 aircraft, seen as a show of strength.

    Several European nations have now moved to bolster Nato’s military deployment in eastern Europe.

    Spain is sending warships to join Nato naval forces in the Mediterranean and the Black Sea, and Denmark also said it would send a frigate to the Baltic Sea.

    French President Emmanuel Macron has offered to send troops to Romania.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60077776

    • Saying your putting your entire navy to sea simultaneously across every theatre you operate in is a bit of a red flag….. though considering the state of the Russian navy if even 25% of the ships leave harbour I will be surprised.

      • Could be a rerun of the 1904 Russian fleet of to the far East didn’t go too well for them then but they did attack Traelers of dogger bank

      • 25% might just be enough, with the right weapons onboard!

        “Russia plans to deploy KALIBR capability on all new design construction nuclear and non-nuclear submarines, corvettes, frigates, and larger surface ships.

        KALIBR provides even modest platforms, such as corvettes, with significant offensive capability and, with the use of the land attack missile, all platforms have a significant ability to hold distant fixed ground targets at risk using conventional warheads.

        The proliferation of this capability within the new Russian Navy is profoundly changing its ability to deter, threaten or destroy adversary targets. It can be logically assumed that KALIBR capability will be retrofitted on those larger Soviet legacy ships and submarines that undergo major overhauls and/or modernization.”1

        In October 2015, Russia launched 26 SS-N-30A missiles at anti-Assad regime forces in Syria. The missiles were launched from Russian naval vessels in the Caspian Sea, including a Geperd class frigate and three smaller Russian Buyen-M corvette-class ships.

        The missiles reportedly flew approximately 1800 kilometres before reaching their targets. 2 Some U.S. military leaders assessed this operation as an opportunity to demonstrate its strike capability.

        NORTHCOM Commander William Gortney, commenting on Russia’s use of cruise missiles in Syria, told Congress that “there’s no operational or tactical requirement to do it. They’re messaging us that they have this capability.”3

        https://missilethreat.csis.org/missile/ss-n-30a/

      • Stand by to be surprised. There is currently another Russian flotilla heading for the Med, this time the flagship cruiser and escort from their Pacific Fleet. They are believed to be somewhere around Yemen at the moment.

    • Sweden has also been reinforcing its forces on the island of Gotland in case the Russians attempt anything there.
      Seems a bit left-field but the Swedes seem to be taking things seriously.

      • Will it would be nice not to hear from that stroppy self-important brat anymore, I doubt your proposal will solve either of the threats we face; Russian aggression and climate-climate.

      • That was due to the unusually large number of landing craft in the Baltic. Which it now seems were there to pick up ‘gear’ to take out of the Baltic, not across it.

          • Driving fossil fueled powered cars is not the only thing causing climate change and that we need to change. There are plenty of other tough choices we need to make in order to solve climate change…

          • I know but what really gets my goat, are the people who whi ge about C C then drive their kids to school, in those bloody 4×4 SUVs and the School is within walking distance

          • I would say that is far more annoying than Greta who actually tries her best to practice what she preaches.

        • Regardless of whatever you think about climate change, Greta whinberg ensures anyone over 25 gets irritated by her patronising childish ways.

          • The only ones being childish are the politicians, the oil industry and those that choose to ignore reality. I am very much older than 25 and I find her far more grown up than most actual grown ups. We printed something like £45 billion sterling to deal with the pandemic yet fail to commit to proper spending to save our own planet. Boris take a private plane back to London from a climate summit in order to get to a party thrown by a conservative party donor .. is that not more irritating than a child asking the adults to do something to make the lives of our future generations better?

  3. Don’t want to show my age but I remember reading about the ‘Ropucha’ class as a schoolboy in the 80’s. It’s the same with 90% of Russian kit. SAM’s/ASM’s/AAM’s mostly new plus a handfull of big ticket items but the vast majority are just 40 year old designs with a new paint job and go faster stripes.

  4. I think now the Russians have thrown everything on the table NATO must do the same, no backing down. Yes we can’t come to Ukraine’s aid in any meaningful way but this should be it now as far as the Baltics are concerned- reinforce the fuck out of them so they know what surrounded really means and, I hate to say this but trump was right the Germans are useless spineless allies and they don’t deserve the support they have now, relocate all forces to Poland and the Baltics where it really matters.

    • Well on your point about ‘coming to Ukraine’s aid in any meaningful way’, I would disagree to an extent.

      Whilst we (NATO) won’t be firing shots, there’s a massive amount that can be done with regards to intelligence and weapon supply that, arguably should have been done a month ago.

      The anti-tank weapon systems we’ve sent out recently are a welcome contribution alongside the stuff the US sent out last year, but much more should have been done and long before now.

      Anti-air systems appear to be a weakness for Ukraine which might be something that the US should focus on providing pronto.

      Fully agree on your points about re-enforcing the Baltic’s and other eastern NATO members, as especially your point about ze Germans.

      • In a ‘meaningful way’ I mean putting forces on the ground and in the air. Supplying intel and light weapons will not change the outcome much , Russia will win regardless of the losses she’ll receive. Europe must now start taking this threat seriously, re-arm and be prepared to fight.

        • Europe? UK, US and some Baltic states seem to be the only ones that seem they maybe willing to fight. France Germany etc may send troops to countries near Ukraine but fighting I’ll be surprised.

          • I suspect if we don’t show strength and unity now the fighting will inevitably come to us. Europe could and should commit itself to being more than a match for Russia if it had the balls. Certainly surprised Germany seems so acquiescent about potentially putting itself back on the front line with only Poland as that buffer again. Didn’t work out too well last time.

          • The big question is-could this conflict once started, and if NATO do get involved, be limited to a conventional battle? I somehow doubt it. The other question which has been posed before-if the Ukraine had not given up its nukes, would Russia risk starting a fight with them? I think not, and the point is that this illustrates that Nuclear Insurance works!

          • Genuine question did Ukraine have 100% complete control of the USSR nuclear weapons that had been stationed in its territory?

            Ukraine didnt invent the weapons so im curious how much of them they could have used and ultimately maintained over time.

          • Yep 100%. The reason they were happy to get rid was cost. It was/would cost a big chunk of their budget to keep them operational and safe. On western side it was concern that with the post Soviet economic collapse they’d end up in very dodgy countries hands.

          • No they didn’t. Launch control was always in Moscow. Ukraine was in part happy to negotiate them away for exactly that reason.
            Clearly I could be wrong on this. As this is different from David’s comment below I’ll go away and try to get some evidence.

          • Under USSR the orders would come from Moscow but the big red button was at the command post for each group of silos in Ukraine.

          • I don’t think Ukraine had control over those ICBM’s on their soil, not without modifications to launch control facilities etc.

          • Germany is in stuck.

            It will take them at least a decade to begin to get off Putin’s apron strings. Should they choose to do so.

            The volume of gas supplyable through Nordstream 2 is roughly equivalent to the entire energy use of UK or another large European country.

            Where do they and other countries replace it from?

          • Merkel should not have abandoned Germany’s nuclear power generation capability, and become so reliant on Russian gas.

          • Their fears of nuclear led them to basically willingly put puppet strings on a number of important decisions the country will have to make. I would have personally expected more from an accomplished person such as Merkel and her predecessors in making sure there is no reliance on anything from a potential enemy, but as the Germans can be smart, they can be equally daft.

          • I think you’re forgetting the Enhanced Forward Presence incl Canadians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Italians, Romainians, Slovaka, Czechs, Danes, Norgies, Albanians, Slovenes, Italians, Germans, French and… may have missed one or two… just saying like.

          • EFP is tripwire forces (and not many of them ie only 3 Battlegroups in total) to prevent Russian incursions into Poland, Lithuania, Latvia – or rather to reassue the peoples of those countries – they are not going to affect the Russo-Ukraine situaution.

          • You forgot Estonia – which is British led!

            That was not my point: NATO has antied up and put boots on the ground, who are prepared to fight.

            I’d still bet the Poles will be doing a lot of footwork on how to help the Ukrainians.

          • the Poles keep shtum about their involvement, unlike the Balts who declare it openly. Which could be read either way. In theory 😉

          • Actually, it’s an interesting point. Several Latvians were arrested when they returned from fighting in the Ukraine – they had been on the Russian side!

          • Ooops! Not sure how I forgot to put Estonia in my answer. My point still stands – EFP is a deterrent/trip wire force to prevent Russia thinking she has an option to interfere in those countries. It does not stop Russia interfering in/invading Ukraine.
            Why would Poles help Ukrainians?

          • Historical animosity towards the Russians.
            Protect their own borders through forward defence.
            Historical connections with Lvov/Lviv – arguably Polish for some.

          • I think you’ll find the Poles really ramping up, unlike us Brits who have more horses than tanks, the Poles have superannuated their winged hussar’s moumts and morphed onto modern MBTs.

        • Ukraine is not a NATO country, therefore Article 5 will not be called and NATO will not fight.
          I can’t believe Putin seriously wants to invade Ukraine – he would lose far more than he gained.

      • NATO Aid to the Ukraine is not some knee jerk reaction to current events,there have been initiatives underway since independence in 1991,and especially since 2014,in the case of the UK under Operation Orbital.

        • There was the ‘Orange’ revolution in Ukraine in 2004/5 that was the point that they started to orient themselves more with the West. Their problem then, as now, in terms of getting into the EU, was/is corruption.

          • So were Western economies corrupt, going back in time.
            At least Ukraine is on a democratic pathway!

          • All depends on how you define corruption but generally speaking most countries are corrupt at some or all levels us included. Do you regard all the military and NHS etc senior people joining companies after they retire that they may well have helped gain orders as corruption? Or Major joining Carlisle, Osborne’s 8 or so jobs, Miliband joining that charity or Blair on his £1M a year+ all for following the US line? That is doing it at hands length, other, more shouted about, is skimming money when still on post and that is an area Ukraine is expert in, look at the money to the Bidens, in exchange for loans.

      • With Russia claiming they aren’t going to invade, they objective maybe another country altogether. If you remember in WW2 GERMANY wanted to invade us, and we used means of blow up tanks etc to deter them. But what if Russia’s is using the same effect in reverse. It builds up its arsenal in one location to make the world think that’s the location they are going to attack. When the world is fully and singularly looking at that location. They attack a completely different country miles from that one? There is also a chance of that senario

    • Trouble is it is Trumps policies towards NATO ( even threatening to leave it) and distaste for Europe that has given the impetus to Putin to try this on. He sees weakness and disharmony and a split America with half the voters seeing thier Country as an island totally ignorant of what losing Europe would mean to the US position in the World. He is testing NATO unity and Bidens willingness to risk the wrath of those voters while knowing any faltering step in those voters eyes be it commitment of weakness will bring back a Trump style Govt with many right wing traits the two administrations can actually mutually respect. Europe needs to get its act together and properly arm itself as reliance on the US might turn mushy at best I fear. And let’s be honest he is trying to re establish the Russian Empire and influence in his back yard to gain whatever strength or perceived strength and influence knowing that in time they will become the minor player in whatever alliance they form with China to whom they will become increasingly reliant upon technologically and finance. So not a bad idea to try to bolster your card play and show you could still be useful and influential in this new world order, especially to its own people.

      • I do wonder if another motivating factor could be something more base than that. Putin is getting old and hybrid warfare is fruitful but getting boring. He wants to get some ‘skin in the game’ like the West has had the past 20 years. Test capabilities. Push buttons. Etc, etc. I’ll also add American Democrats have a strong distaste for Putin starting roughly in early 2017 when US intelligence agencies determined Russia helped elect Trump. Trump kissing Putin’s ass in Helsinki infuriated a lot of Americans. It’s possible if Putin gets really aggressive it could unite the US to some degree.

      • Morning Spy. On the face of it, Trump’s position on the Right of the political spectrum, should have placed him as a hard opponent of the Russians but he was like a contrite schoolboy sitting next to Putin. Clearly they have something on him-most probably a secret video of Trump in bed with some Russian beauty! And therein lies the fate of the world!!

        • That would make a great movie but better to ‘follow the money’ trail back to Russia and other foreign powers. Also Congress now has the Trump White House documents related to Jan 6. If anybody wants to do a deep dive into the political corruption the FBI has to tackle, I recommend bookmarking/following ericgarland on Twitter.

        • Except, Trump isn’t the President, its the weak Biden who sits in the oval office and has for a wee while now.

          • Morning Douglas. Agree entirely with what you say but I feel Trump was the one who emboldened Putin in the first place with his wimpish behaviour and with Biden following and little if any better, then no wonder Putin is considering pushing his luck.

          • Trump was an idiot and poor president. Biden is shaping up to be just as bad and hopefully another 1-term wonder.

          • Really poor analysis of a foreign state. How would you like me to paint Corbin and Johnson with the same brush? Idiocy.

          • Hi Ron. Your posts are very aggressive. We all have opinions and may not always agree but nice to keep things civilised. I think most would agree Trump was a very poor President and Joe Biden has not covered himself in glory. As to Corbin(Corbyn) and American born Johnson, well in my opinion Corbyn is poison and Johnson is a clown beyond redemption
            Regards
            Geoff(who is btw an ardent Americophile)

          • Douglas’s post about this being Biden’s fault instead of Putin and his yes men is just not true and I don’t think it’s the time to encourage them. Lots of disinformation out there I don’t understand how Trump takes no blame on either side of the Atlantic for signing the peace deal with the Taliban of all groups but Biden blamed on this board with no push back. I apologize if you took offense with my tone, it’s not my normal voice. As for Corbyn and Johnson, I generally agree I just wish people could see it’s kind of the opposite here with the democrats essentially the center right party with a ‘liberal’ wishlist (an NHS, climate action, equal rights) and republicans far, far to the right of that to the point they don’t have a policy shop just political/media.

          • Hi Ron-no need to apologise, I enjoy your posts and know that things for all of us can get robust at times. I am generally centrist and an issues rather than party man and had high hopes for Biden. My good friend and neighbour, an ex USN chief engineer on subs is a mildly Right of Centre Republican but even he voted for Biden in the last election. I think it is sad that Biden never got a shot at the Presidency a decade ago. His advanced years are often publicly evident in his performance. Next time round-Hillary Clinton vs Donald Trump !!!!😎
            Kind Regards
            Geoff

          • Grandpa Biden has been engaged with the Pentagon bigwigs and was informed that Troops had already been pulled out of Vietnam .Now have your 40 winks and Cocoa

      • You can’t blame Trump for this. The weakness is in Biden. If Biden had the balls he could put a small contingent of US troops in Ukraine and dare Putin to attack. With the US “on side”, it could even be a NATO contingent. (NATO will do nothing without US Support)

        Alternatively, NATO could station aircraft in Ukraine bordering countries and work with the Ukrainian AF to secure Ukraine airspace – again daring Putin to attack NATO Aircraft. In this second scenario NATO troops/aircraft don’t even need to be in Ukraine thereby making it difficult for Putin to complain. Any Russian invasion would require Air Supremacy and that would not be possible if NATO pledged to defend their airspace.

        Deterrence is the key.

        This current lack of deterrence is caused by US (i.e. Biden’s) cowardice in not standing up to the Russians. If the US wants to be held up as the leader of the west – its needs to act like one.

        With the Germans compromised, and the inability to trust Macron in anything, all the UK and allies like the Balkan states can do is provide arms for them.

        • Once again I must say that your assessment is spot on. An analogy would be how the small number of US troops placed in both Syria and Afghanistan deterred attackers until they were removed andlook what follows.
          Biden-BIG disappointment. I didn’t think anyone could be worse than Trump

        • Oh, that would be Slovakia and Poland for example who have… NATO aircraft from… America not to mention eFP fighters in Lithuania, Estonia and Bulgaria.

          • EFP is irrelevant to the Russo-Ukraine situation. A mere 3 BGs in total and designed just to reassure the people of Poland, Latvia and Lithuania.

          • But they need to be postured in way that showed the West meant business. Several Squadrons of both Interceptor and Ground Attack aircraft from various NATO nations with beefed up on-ground defences and anti-aircraft units. Something that clearly says we’re here, and we’re flying over Ukraine and you aren’t stopping us.

            And the balls to back up that posture with action if necessary.

            Putin cannot afford a hot war even less than we can. (apologies for the convoluted English there!)

          • I really don’t disagree with you. NATO should have gripped the Balts, told them the purchasing would be led by Poland and created a unified equipped group of countries enjoying scale of purchasing.

            We live and learn. Ah, but at least the Brits flogged off some 60y/o CVR(T)s…

        • Don’t we have typhoons in the Balkans and Romania? Iv said all along all the US has to do is move over a few B52s B1s and B2 to UK on a routine training mission. This alone would send a message and along with the news that an Ohio class arsenal boat is currently sunning of Cyprus when normally the whereabouts is secret says alot. The US CSG in the med training with Italy and Spain no doubt this is positioned close by aswell.

        • So, USA has no troops in Ukraine? Thats an oversight. We have got troops there, albeit only a small number in a training and advisory role – still complicates the plot for Putin.

          • I meant a small number combat troops postured to help the Ukranians defend themselves. Not training troops. Special Forces, or a couple of thousand US Marines or Paratroopers. It would be a signal of intent to the Russians.

            If the US had done this early enough the Russians would have back off. Its more difficult now given the numbers they have positioned. I think Putin is going to have to attack or look weak.

          • Yep – scapegoating the most powerful National leader in the world because his big stupid plan is tell the Russians he won’t militarily defend the Ukraine. Clever move, and it’ll be Trumps fault the Russians invade on Bidens watch.

            The US Putting a small number of troops in Ukraine is a line in the sand … a powerful symbol of intent to the Russians of repucussions if they invade. The Russians will only invade if they think they can get away with it … and thicko Biden has given them the green light by saying he won’t defend Ukraine.

          • Thanks Douglas. You are right. That is the role of EFP troops in Poland and the Baltics – show of support plus being a tripwire.
            Putin might be doing maskirovka. He has set out his demands publicly (Ukraine never to join NATO, EFP troops to withdraw from Poland and the Baltics – as a minimum) and he will then withdraw his troops – we in the west will not agree to any of that.

            So is his agenda really totally different? I think so. He really wants to install a pro-Russian government in Kiev and to have independence for the Russian-speaking regions in the east of Ukraine, as well as to remind Germany that they get a third of their gas from him and they need to play ball with him both now and in the future. Later on (years on) he might annex Ukraine as Phase 2 if that can be done as ‘cleverly’ and bloodlessly as he got the Crimea.

        • Douglas you are as delusional as can be in your explanation (Biden’s fault) for why this is happening. Trump kissed Putin’s behind in every way possible to the point he tried to break our democracy on the 6th of January, 2021. Biden is standing up to Putin in every way logical.

          • Trump isn’t the president now, it’s Biden. And the capitol protests are nothing to do with this.

            The US defence budget is $777bn – more than the rest of the world combined. If Biden was was standing up to Putin he’d use some of that military grunt they have. Putins Russia isn’t anywhere nearly as big and powerful as the old Soviet military and couldn’t go toe to toe with the US.

            The only delusional people are the idiots who think Biden is doing a good job; he’s lost Afghanistan, Ukraine next, and probably Taiwan in 2023 when this emboldens the Chinese.

          • This idiot wants Biden to start the war. Who do you think signed the peace deal with the Taliban you delusional fool? Who do you think got impeached by the US House for trying to compromise Zelensky? Biden???

          • More of your disinfo to correct here the US spends as much as the next 11 biggest spenders combined on defense nowadays not the rest of the world. When you consider bang for buck (price index), how long until China’s defense budget alone will be equal? You act like the US has nothing to prepare for or be cautious with and we can throw our weight around like Panama in 1989. Again, your assessment that putting 2,000 US troops into Ukraine before the status quo has changed, would not have detered 100,000+ troops amassing on the border or the worldwide surge going on across their armed forces. More dangerously, it would give Putin an easy opportunity to start a conventional war with the US should he need a distraction. Again, without anything in the status quo actually changing yet. It’s longstanding US policy to keep US troops out of the line of fire of Russian troops. The reasons for that should be obvious.

        • It’s perhaps worth considering that just supposing a few Russian armoured/infantry detachments had been deployed in and around Baghdad at important government and military sites as ‘ peacekeepers/observers’ or an actual hostile force, then would the 2003 invasion of Iraq have taken place? I doubt it.

          Likewise the presence of Nato ‘tripwire ‘ forces might just persuade Russian planners to step back.

          • But why would Russia deployed troops in Iraq 2003 to save Despot Sadam’s skin? Did he deserve any sympathy?

          • Well they didn’t of course and no sympathy was deserved . I was just using it as an example of how the presence of a capable foreign military in a potential war theatre could complicate strategies.

            Purely theoretical, but just imagine Putin had deployed military units to Iraq in 2002/2003 as peacekeepers and to ‘secure WMD’. He would have stolen a march under US noses, scored a propaganda victory, brought Iraq under Russian influence and probably have prevented the 2003 invasion. Much as he did in Syria .

          • It’s not a valid comparison – in 2003 the Russian was in a post Yeltsin mess and in no way capable of acting as a deterrent to US forces.

          • It was purely a theoretical consideration . Using it just to illustrate how the forward presence of US/Nato forces in Eastern Europe may or may not influence Russian decision making.

    • Very much.

      Putin has been blowing smoke about NATO having significant forces in countries bordering Russia, but really they are minimal. We should grant him that and make it a reality.

      Germany doesn’t need anything but some supply depots and rear HQs.

    • I’m Amazed at Germany and France’s response. Look what we did to help France in WW1/2. Ok we fought for repression of all subjugated Countries including the German folk who were under the heel of the Nazi jackboot. When we need European Allies like France and Germany, where are they. I tell you what happened ; the worst thing that people in this Country did, come out of Europe.

  5. HMS Dragon, though reportedly armed with Harpoon, is being put in harms way without a modern AShM. Inspite of their age, the Russian Ropucha class have been fitted with AK-630 CIWS, easily as good as Phalanx. If this new cold war turns into something nasty, our T45 should have something better than Harpoon to engage enemy ships.

    Wallace should put his bloody foot down, overule objections and get an off the shelf system fitted PDQ

    • It’s all well and good having such weapons, but they aren’t much good without good accurate targeting information. For use in the littoral, these also need to be smart weapons, able to accurately discriminate between types of ships – not good to go sinking the wrong ships!
      It’s not as easy as it seems, accurately targeting the correct vessel in high shipping density waters.

      • The Norwegian NSM has that covered.

        “The target selection technology provides NSM with a capacity for independent detection, recognition, and discrimination of targets at sea or on the coast. This is possible by the combination of an imaging infrared (IIR) seeker and an onboard target database. NSM is able to navigate by GPS, inertial and terrain reference systems. ”

        As you can see from the pic at the top the Russian ship is within visual range. Sorted

        • See reply above.
          At this distance we could also send a cutting out party/borders I’m sure! Let’s be honest, in hostilities, they wouldn’t be sailing unescorted or going through the channel!

          • Indeed you wouldn’t need ships to eliminate those ducks as you wouldn’t in the Dardanelles if they ever got in a pickle there either as Britain found out before the Gallipoli campaign became a hasty if equally ill fated alternative.

        • NSM like Harpoon has a range that means it flies way over the horizon. Without OHT you are randomly chucking missiles out down a bearing and hoping the target is somewhere within the seeker head basket for the terminal homing. NSM has a IIR seeker so it can discriminate but the target still needs to be there when it arrives to be discriminated against!

          • That’s one of the reasons the JSM in particular is getting the BAe RF receiver. It has a much wider capture angle. So can be used if the IIR seeker doesn’t see the target. As it’s a shed load easier to detect an RF emission and from a lot further away with a highly sensitive receiver. The receiver is a version of the one fitted to the LRASM. Kongsberg have said that the NSM will also get the receiver.

        • JSM is also getting a version of BAe’s RF receiver, that is one of the primary sensors on the LRASM. This was at the request of the Australian Government. Kongsberg have said that it will also be fitted to NSM. The RF receiver can help to lock onto a RF signal that matches something a target ship would emit.

      • Agreed. So many completely underestimate the complexity and difficulties of achieving the kill chain with Anti ship missiles.

        • Pity we didn’t keep developing the 6” system fitted to Tiger and Blake? A pair of those would make a proper mess of today’s warships.

          • Thought about those beasties Johnathan if they hadn’t been converted to Helicopter carriers as such and kept the Aft turrets as well nice broadside those cordites were huge

          • No worries. There was a table top exercise done by the Navy back in the late 80’s. This was to determine if the resurrected Blake and Tiger would stand a chance against the Belgrano, if they actually faced off. The conclusion was that Tiger stood the better chance due to her 6″ turret being mostly electrically powered rather than hydraulic, like Blake’s, so the presumption was she’d be more reliable. But more significantly, the conclusion was the Belgrano would have been pummelled by the sheer weight of accurate fire that both Blake and Tiger could put down.

            I think it would be worth having a theoretical exercise, to see how effective a pair of 6″ (i.e.155mm) auto-cannons would be today, with modern firing control, metallurgy, water cooling and ammunition? Negating the fact that they wouldn’t be able to compete for precision long range fires, like say a Tomahawk cruise missile. But against another ship just beyond or within visual range. I would imagine that such a weapon system would tear apart a modern warship. They certainly wouldn’t be able to counter the storm of incoming. At 17 rounds per minute per gun, where it can discharge 2 tons of shells in 60 seconds! (Ref: Turret Captain of HMS Tiger)

            Time for some fantasy fleet stuff:

            I have often thought that a modern version of the Tiger class, would be a force to be reckoned with. Still classed as a cruiser, with a length of over 170m and a similar displacement of 10,000t. But a ship that can look after itself when operating on its own, as well as going actively looking for trouble!

            Equipped with a large hanger and deck so it can operate a number of manned helicopters and UAVs for over the horizon targeting and surveillance. Include a mission bay for manned ribs, plus dedicated unmanned ASW or patrol vessels. A large VLS farm for a mix of anti-air, anti-surface and perhaps even anti-sub. A single turret up front, mounting dual 155mm auto-cannons, that uses two piece ammunition. Therefore, it can use standard NATO 155mm ammunition, along with NAMMO’s ramjet shell and BAe’s HVP. Thereby giving it significant over the horizon range (150km+) for naval gunfire support. But also the HVP means that it can be used for air defence as well. A pair of BAe 57mm, fitted abreast of the ship for CIWS, firing Alamo, ORKA or MAD-FIREs. But upgraded with a gun barrel water jacket, thereby increasing its sustained rate of fire. Powered by a pair of MT30s along with some complimentary diesel gensets for electrical integrated drive. Thereby enabling sufficient surplus power for a least one 600kW class laser perhaps even two, for an additional CIWS layer. Using Thales Smart-L-MM AESA radar for long range 3D volume searching and Sampson 2 for air defence and gunnery laying.

            OK, I freely admit a ship such as this won’t be cheap, but one can live in hope!

          • Hi Dave ,knife through Butter with today’s build of warships we can but dream a larger build of Destroyer with 6in either single or twin fully Auto good fire control radar no need for the old 274/75 sights or LAS just ops Rm fire controller and PWO but alas smaller ships and bores seem too be the way fwd with The MOD

      • I agree.

        The 4.5” has the range, accuracy and stopping power to deal with that kind of threat.

        Using missiles at that close a range in very crowded waters would be crazy.

        • Yep, putting a heavy weight anti ship missile in a cruise ship would be the ultimate fuck up and hand a victory to Russia.

        • The waters won’t be crowded, NOTAMs would clear potential conflict areas fast.
          Without ASuW the RN is badly exposed, and it’s criminal negligence sending sailors into a warzone without ability to take offensive action. NSM in clear sea lanes, is perfectly suited to keeping enemy at arms length.

    • Criminal in the present circumstances which has been predictable for years that no effort to do so has been made. But then we are talking about a Govt that is all style (and what style that is these days judging by the No.10 makeover) over remote substance and my do those Type 45s look smart and mean when they are out on the water especially when they have a dragon on the bow though Boris would probably add flock wallpaper as camaflage.

    • HMSs Dragon and Defender never had Harpoon fitted. There are only 4 sets available for the Type 45s taken off the Type 22 Batch 3s.

    • With you on this DL, some interim AShMs on all T45/T23s…but Mr Wallace is here in Sydney at the moment. If I see him I’ll ask.
      🙄

      • Asking whether Australia will sell us a handful of their Block II Harpoons; the practical solution to the (cancelled) interim AShM requirement?

    • Is Harpoon totally ineffective against Russian ships or just ‘a bit old’? Pity we don’t have an enormous fleet of attack submarines to take out surface ships.

      • Harpoon is

        – slow
        – not stealthy
        – the bocks the UK has have quite limited onboard electronics.

        So easy to detect and evasion not impossible but also easy for CIWS to lock onto.

        Later versions have much better electronics and sensors developed with Israel.

    • Spot on post! Sheer incompetence being the only major navy in the world to not have AsUW capability beyond a 4.5 pea shooter.
      Akin to RAF doing away with Meteor, ASRAAM and sticking to Mauser.
      NOTAMs will clear seaways fast, whilst the Falklands demonstrated the potency of AsUW back then. If NSM is good enough for USN & Germany it’s good enough for RN. The group thinkers on here have no idea of the N2 capabilities of RU and without AsUW the RN is in danger of being decimated before tea time. It’ll make Snatch Landrover fiasco look trivial.

      • By teatime at least during the cold War the surface arm of the RN was given 7 days before lights out 6 days more than the RAF , only the Army faired better indefinitely if resupplied ?

        • Er, as infantry, I had all of 9 seconds according to the briefing table on the Major’s desk… reading down the list and RMP were given 36 hours; and the rest is history.

          • Cheers dave , I think our boss were trying too make us look on the bright side I doubt if the Careers office would have stated that when we signed up

      • And yet, of all the capability gaps, this one worries the RN the least. why? kill chain is very complex to find, track, and then engage a warship at range that doesn’t want to be shot at. Complex rules of engagement, and a pretty good chance you won’t hit the intended target. Plus, RN experience has taught us we use helicopters in the littoral with Stingray, Martlet and Sea Venom, and hunter killer boats for larger warships. We have Astute, which is the finest anti ship weapon in the world, along with NATO and allied nuclear boats, it’s enough to keep any threat at bay. And a huge amount of politics and international relations has to go very badly wrong before we start looking at conventional conflict with a foreign Navy. And if we do, just like the COVID response, huge amounts of cash will suddenly be available for any equipment we might need.

        • It’s a gap that worries the ranks the most! A Slava Class cruiser isn’t going to be worried by any Wildcat, whilst ROEs mean that by the time Astutes have surfaced to receive comms the shooting has started and finished. That’s if of the few Astutes we have aren’t already chasing their own Oscars or Yasen. If they can’t see it the RU navy will likely assess it’s not there.
          The lack of AsUW is a gamble that could prove catastrophic, as bad as the lack of anti-tank weaponry given to the BEF.

          • Astutes don’t need to surface to receive Comms, they are more then capable of receiving them whilst deep.
            If a shooting war were to start, the Astutes would be at sea ready to start shooting, it’s what they are for, granted we don’t have enough of them, a situation that won’t be rectified until SSN(R) comes of the pipeline at the earliest.
            As @RB has posted a lack of ASM is not high on the list of RNs priorities, whatever the reasons. I agree that it’s a risk, but one which they appear to be content to manage..

          • They would be very worried about Wildcat with Sea Venom & Martlet, and Merlin Mk2 with Stingray capability. They have nothing to match it. At the end of the day it isn’t going to be Britain v Russia, It will would be a NATO coalition. And the Russian surface fleet is still very much made up of 80’s tech, that isn’t very reliable. And even 2 or 3 Astute boats would give any fleet a serious headache. Their speed, range, persistence on station, sensors stealth and firepower make them the modern day battleships, only vastly more effective. And it’s these capabilities that the Russians not only respect, but fear. At what our superbly trained perisher graduate captains can do with these boats.

          • I’m afraid Martlet wouldn’t scratch the paint on a Kirov, whilst the Wildcat wouldn’t get within range to launch kinetics before being eliminated by the Grumble. Comms on a dived Astute very limited. A NATO coalition would see RN surface ships targeted first as the weakest AsUW link in the chain.
            RN’s lack of AsUW is a gamble, otherwise why retain harpoon?

          • Surface vessels Anti ship missiles are effectively back up. Helicopters for the littoral, Nuclear boats for larger vessels. And if we enter a shooting war with Russia. Any toys the RN requires would magical appear on the Quay side, and the funds suddenly available. If the RN really wants anti ship missiles, we would get them. But you have to appreciate they are not the be all and end all. They are not a golden bullet.

          • Sounds like we haven’t learned any lessons from history! the disaster of the BEF and lack of anti tank capability that was promised in the event of conflict, sadly never materialised. Our SSNs will be busy chasing their SSNs, and so each RN surface vessel should be capable of offensive action.

          • I have faith in the crews and TTPs, I have limited faith when the top brass dispense with offensive capabilities that the USN and every other major navy endorses. I have little faith when the top brass commit to building frigates that have no ASW or AsUW capabilities. The RN suffered badly in the Falklands through short sightedness and gaps in capabilities, and is sadly doomed to suffer again unless it takes the enemies and their capabilities and tactics seriously. Our potential foes are very clever and will exploit gaps. I pray it doesn’t happen, but sheer negligence in this area should keep RN Commanders awake at night.

          • If you mean why T26 isn’t fitted with ASROC, then that has been explained at length by many other commentators, and with very good reason. And T26 will also receive the future cruise/anti ship weapon. Also known as SPEAR capability 5. F35 will also receive SPEAR 3 which also has anti ship capability. F35 will be able to carry 8 of these missiles internally.

          • I’m not sure to be honest. But T31 isn’t designed or intended to be a high end anti submarine Frigate, more a general purpose Frigate for more day to day operations ,anti piracy ect but capable enough to operate as part of a task group. T31 is being procured to a strict budget, to get these vessels built and in service pretty quick, and we can upgrade once in service if the need requires it, they are large, and will be a very flexible design allowing more kit to be integrated over the years.

          • Hi Robert. Initially other then a echo sounder suite for navigation which is a safety requirement, there are no current plans for a ASW fit on the T31’s, for the reasons you have stated.
            A capability upgrade as and when needed, might well happen. Don’t think it’s just down to initial build costs either, providing a crew for the kit and paying for them over the lifetime of the ship/s probably has a bearing on this issue too.

          • The SPEAR seems limited against a target like a ship.
            With 4 missiles in each bay of an F-35 (like the 1000lb GBU fits into), says that the warhead can’t be that big, say like a Hellfire or Brimstone around 15kg.
            Will it damage to a ship? Certainly, if small, but it isn’t going to be sinking any frigates or destroyers let alone a cruiser many of which are being fitted with anti shell or missile weapons.
            EDIT spelling corrections.

          • Hi mate. SPEAR 3 will have a small warhead, but it will be very accurate. And you don’t have to sink a warship to take it out of the fight. Any damage to external sensors, VLS tubes, the bridge area, mast, or flight deck would be enough to take it out of the fight. A 4 ship of F35’s could put 36 missiles into the target area from over 100km away with the advantage of stealth. Add in SPEAR EW, which will be an air launched jammer, creating false targets, and the bad guys are going to have a very busy day.

          • I’m not entirely sure how/where you have Ur info ref Astutes having v limited Comms when dived from?
            SMs don’t spend a lot of time having needless conversations with their controlling authority. They can receive Comms 24/7 without having to come to PD, they do not surface to receive Comms, so no difference between a ship receiving an update or a SM. The only time there is a difference, is when a SM is deep, sprinting to a new position. Once there they re establish the picture.

          • Erm, there’s certain CO of a T23 on TV at the moment who disagrees with you not to mention Radakin hgiving HoC evidence…

  6. Surely if Russia invades Ukraine there’s gonna have to be big increases in defence and security spending we’re gonna have to reinforce all Eastern European alliance members for that matter any country world wide that feels threatened buy any powerful country

    • Hi Geordie,

      You’d think so. The British Army for starters needs a serious shake up and recapitalisation. Most of its armour is 25+ years old, it’s tube artillery is a similar age and is seriously out ranged by modern Russian systems and they have just announced a cut in numbers to about 75,000..!

      That basically, means the UK has ‘signalled’ that it is disengaging from effective land operations in a NATO context. At least that is how Putin would see it.

      Going after the Ukraine neatly side steps the maritime flank to some extent. Our carriers will only come into this if we need to reinforce Europe from North America!

      NATO is in a pickle and needs a major reinvestment…

      Cheers CR

      • That’s what I was thinking, but invading Ukraine probably isn’t allowed under international law. I can’t imagine we would though, as it could cause an incident in the channel.

        • I would love it if we did do that. As far as Im aware there isnt any part of the channel that is not either British or French waters. Therefore in theory at least for the narrowest Dover-Calais area we could do that.
          Can you see hot winded Macron or blustering Boris doing that?
          Nope me neither.

          • Agree as a tunnel runs under the channel we have right to defend the tunnel and if at war blockade the channel to defend it. Also the Blockade the Atlantic Iceland gap. Like wise the Danse could blockade the Baltic as well. The Turks the bosphorous cutting off vital Shipping routes to Russia. WW1 & WW2 were not just ended by fighting but the economic ability of Germany to out produce the allies. Germany was starved to death in WW1 by the blockade of the North sea and WW2 bomber command destroyed it’s industrial might. This is why US UK and NATO have been telling Putin that he’ll be financially crucified if he does invade.

          • Almost all forms of sanctions being discussed have a greater blowback potential on both Europe and the US than their damage on Russia.

          • I think you overestimated Russia’s economy Ivan , its smaller than that nutty economy of Italy’s lol

          • Or how much BS the kremlin comes up with, I think RT chat forum is your home you have many friends there Ivan lol.

    • No, but it would be interesting to know what Circumstances would trigger that. Invasion of a NATO state or even probably Sweden I’m sure would.

  9. All vessels travelling through the Bosphorus have to book passage where a Turkish pilot will board to insure safe passage, that includes men of war irrespective of nationality. These vessels are more than likely head to Syria to onload stores. The Russians are on drawdown but maintaining overwatch I understand. Syria is not a big news story for Putin.
    If this invasion happens it could well lead to the Chinese taking the opportunity to seize Taiwan, Iran will cause trouble in the Straits of Homuz and missile man could well take the opportunity to invade the South.
    This is how regional conflicts rapidly turn into world wars.

      • You have to look at the bigger picture, Russia, China and the Iranians are holding joint exercises in the Indian ocean, increased naval activity in the Arctic,
        My biggest concern is India and Pakistan. I’m for one are hoping cool heads prevail. We are in a potentially high risk scenario all it takes is a trigger point. We are were we are now and it should have never have got to this point.

    • During the Cold War it became traditional to test the resolve of an incoming new American president with a manufactured crisis. Putin has huge domestic discontent for which the Ukraine crisis is a distraction. Xi has exactly the same problems internally in China and may be actually undetaking a modern genocide of the Uighur for which the Taiwan crisis is his distraction. The N Koreans are starving again. The Iranians are being bombed at will.

      However, it does look like everybody is going to fight back. The Ukraininans particularly will give a good account of themselves. So will Taiwan. The South Koreans will absorb and stop any incursion by the north and may then decide to reunify their country by force themselves.

      Its a game of bluff to test Biden and the West. We all know what happens if you appease dictators.

      • Putin is serious, building up a concentration of troops and armour to this level is not an excersise. Something will give as you cannot maintain an army at this sort of readiness indefinitely. The combat readiness of your fighting units degrade, morale becomes a problem and your armour becomes less effective as maintaince for war becomes a problem.
        The fighting units the Russians have deployed are professional soldiers not conscrips.

        • Putin is serious about sabre-rattling and applying miitary pressure. I really can’t believe he wants to invade Ukraine. To what end? Surely he loses more than he gains.

          • To all and intents you could be correct, but here’s the rub he is a dictator in all but name. Dictators will at any cost hold onto power.

          • True , I seem to remember one the OSINT Bunker pod cast guys saying if they start to move Air assets near the Ukraine border than probably the war is on , they have just done that.

          • Would tend to agree with you Graham, to what end does Putin need to invade Ukraine?
            Land, they have plenty.
            Food, the are a exporter of food.
            Resources, they have plenty of their own.
            Which begs the question why?
            A distraction for poor ratings at home – possibly.
            Or perhaps NATOs drive eastwards since the fall of communism might just be giving them sleepless nights! Perhaps all they want is a buffer zone with no NATO assets in sight?
            I’m all for countries determining their own choices, but I can see Putin’s concerns.

          • It’s a land grab and a hard lesson to NATO not to expand further east and I’m afraid Ukraine who have been pro west since independence will pay the price. If Russia invades what do they do next? Broker a deal to have Russian military bases in their country. It depends on the severity of what Russia will do if it invades. Regime change? Its what happens after Russia invades that know one is sure about.

          • Yes, it’s certainly a complex situation, aided no doubt by a perceived weakness of the US, which is currently very poorly led and has been for several years.
            If allowed to go unchecked, this will only serve to embolden both Putin and Xi, so interesting times ahead for all of us.
            Unfortunately we are in a poor starting position militarily, as is most of NATO if things escalate. One can hope that cooler heads will prevail, and we start sorting ourselves out!

          • I think you have hit the nail on the head. Its a game to stop NATO advancing further east, and a political statement. looking at the satellite images of the Rusian camps near the boarder. It looks like a scene from 1984. Very old school looking set up and equipment.

        • Also most of that Russian buildup is into barracks so not suffering. Unlike the Ukrainians who are, in the main, suffering out in the trench systems with a serious number of ‘don’t want to be here’ conscripts.

          • Really Ivan ? it was not to long ago that a few Russian soldiers died in a Russian barracks collapse, dont believe your own hype, and considering the Ukraine people are fighting for its independence, where they are stationed does not matter.

          • I have little doubt that corruption in Russia has led to some pretty shoddy construction. The only Ukraine people fighting for their independence are those in the Donbas. The rest of Ukraine is a sovereign state and fully independent of anyone. If you were spending months in a bunker in a trench system in that climate I think it may well matter.

        • I have lost count how many times I have read about “explosions” in Iran over the past two years or so. Power stations. Nuclear centrifuge assembly plants. Ammunition depots. Assassinations of nuclear experts. The huge explosion at the military complex of Parchin, 30 kilometers southeast Tehran. The explosion inside an oxygen factory in the town of Bandar-e Mahshahr, south of Tehran. On 19 July 2020, another explosion hit a power plant in Isfahan Province.

          Most of these incidents were blamed by Iran on Israel. However, the IDF has a long standing policy of refusing to confirm or deny allegations of this sort. But you can draw your own conclusions.

      • Iranians being bombed at will??? Surely you mean the Syrians? No-one will be able to fight back in an all in war today. Concussion will do too much damage.

    • Iran has already stepped up activities in the gulf region, recently attacked the UAE with drones from Yemen causing a few civilian casualties.

      • Yes and who do you think gave them the green light.
        Blocking the straits is a far cry than just a few drone attacks. Iran has been poking the region with a pointy stick for years now just to see what sort of rea tin they would get in return. Apart from Qaswem Soleimmani.

        • Well the attacks came from Yemen itself as did missiles over night last night they arent coming from Iranian soil.

          Are you saying another country told Iran to attack the UAE?

          • I think Iran’s aspirations in the region run much deeper than having mild cooperation with Russia.

            Iran if anything will be taking the opportunity to cause issues whilst US attention is firmly off the region.

    • Do you have a link on that drawdown, haven’t seen that comment before? The situation is quiet at the moment but when Idlib lights up the Russians will be there in force. THey may have a go at making life uncomfortable for the US there as well.

  10. Just been channel hooping with various News outlets and what I can gather is that the Ukrainian public are just getting on normal Living , it would seem that the 24hr News channels are too blame for the So called tensions just like a certain plot for a James Bond movie with Johnathan Pryce as the TV mogul who wants too start a War for Ratings

    • Tommo don’t get carried away with what the media put out. The trick is to sort the rubbish and the facts, with good journalism there is always some good Intel to be gleaned.

      • Not many decent investigative journos around now. If it doesn’t conform to the official line it gets spiked. Try it too often, find work elsewhere.

      • Thanks Mark it just seems that the way that some outlets are reporting this ongoing story ,could in fact do more damage than good .As with some people on these threads ,that are goading eachother into what better weapons would do the most damage ,when the most destructive weapon is their Mouse/keyboard I know its just keyboard banter but my God there’s some who really do want it too kick off

        • Tabloid sensationalism I’m afraid Tommo. Too many journalists sit at their desks googling news instead of getting off their backsides.
          However there is some good reports if you know where to look.

    • Pretty much what their President told them on the TV a couple of days ago. Their Intel also saying that they see no particular problem. This is a US created crisis for US domestic reasons. It could be solved if Ukraine finally implemented the Minsk Protocol it signed in 2015.

        • Yes he did, totally out of the blue and unqualified for the job Hunter turned up as a direcyor of Burisma, a Ukrainian gas company, on a juicy contract. This was of course totally unrelated to his dad, then VP, having a say on loan money going into Ukraine.

  11. I wonder if we could see a real boost in our defence budget? It seems a good time to propose it in the commons.

    “Tobias Ellwood said Russian President Vladimir Putin was “taking full advantage of a weakened West”.

    His views were backed by Labour leader Keir Starmer who tweeted on Saturday: “To protect our values and our security we must be steadfast in our opposition to Russian aggression. We must stand with our Ukrainian allies.”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60095385

  12. Is Russia just grandstanding in some effort to remove the economic sanctions? Like pieces on a chess board, I suppose not all of the movements need to make sense. Just to keep us on our toes.

    Dissapointed in Macron, but can’t say i’m surprised. Times where unity is needed he takes EU presidency and is calling for the EU to do their own deal with Russia. Trump was right about Germany being too dependent upon Russian gas and some EU states not spending enough on defence.

    When people toured the Viktor Yanukovych presidential palace, they were shocked at the grandeur of Putins puppet. I credit Putin for being smarter than Macron!

  13. Step back guys, the roots of this situation lie decades ago. We in the West lost sight of the long term strategic goal of the US is remaining the sole superpowewr. Instead we were lured away by the glitter of ongoing wars in the ME. Leading to our militaries being optimised for fighting second rate foes.
     
    Meanwhile the potential peer foes, Russia and China, were very quietly building up their defensive forces initially and then offensive to a standard able to match a peer adversary.  They now believe they have achieved their goal and no longer have to bow to the US.
     
    We now see the result, Russia confident in its strength, telling the US what it wants and flexing its muscles to show it could deliver if needed. The US is now on the back foot faced with the public demands, some say ultimatums, issued in the proposed agreements published last year and discussed in Geneva 2 weeks ago and yesterday. This is not the normal US in secret way and they are wrong footed.
     
    That is what is playing out militarily, muscle flexing with the Russians having the stronger hand. Russia sees no benefit to war in Ukraine, it is just the area that the US has chosen to try and distract away from what they have been asked to agree to.

    You will all be aware of the dire state of the US at the moment, with inflation heading into double figures and a food supply problem about to hit, both caused in the main by vaccine mandates on an unwilling workforce.

    The US really needs a distraction and on this scale war is the proven best option. That could be why the pressure is being cranked up around Ukraine.

    • Err no.

      Yes China has been throwing money at increasing the capabilities and sheer size of its military in it race to become the worlds dominant hyper-power.

      But Russia? 🤣 Yes they’ve probably done more to modernise than laggards such as Argentine or Germany, but in conventional terms the European members of NATO alone could militarily contain Russia without America’s help. Russia isn’t confident, Putin is looking for foreign enemies to placate the growing criticism at home. Whether he’ll succeed with his military distraction where General Galtieri failed with this strategy is open to question.

      The USA didn’t pick Ukraine as some kind of “distraction”. It was Russia that plonked 100,000 troops plus armour on Ukraine’s border and upped its cyber attacks against the country. Combine this with Putin’s recent rhetoric of “historic Russia” as being the states that comprised the Soviet Union, it’s not surprising that these now sovereign nations fear Putin’s intentions.

      Sorry but your fantasies about the USA are completely wrong too. The country has boomed back from the pandemic, with the tech sector and start-ups upping investment and hiring like crazy. Your vaccine mandate theory is tosh too.

      Nice try Ivan.

      • I stand by my comments and time will tell. As to the vaccine mandate, you are aware of the cross US/Canada border restrictions that came into force today that affect 50% or so drivers and the log jams in US west coast ports? US truckers are heavily non vaccinated.

        • I doubt you can stand at all given the amount of hallucinogens you must be partaking.

          The jams at US West Coast ports have been due to the global supply chain being out of whack. Normally there’s maybe half a dozen ships of the coast of California waiting to be unloaded, last I heard it was over 70.

          As for the numbers unvaccinated, I know Putin’s trolls have been stoking that fire with conspiracy theories about the vaccines. And I know the USA seems to have more fruit-cakes that believe these. But the figures aren’t as large as claimed and it’s not going to be an issue for transport.

          • And it will be forthcoming if I am wrong as I hope yours will be in reverse. I note that you seen to have accepted my comments on the US border debacle.

          • Because I don’t have anybody living on the USA/Canada so I don’t know the situation. Whereas I have friends and colleagues dotted along the West Coast which is how I can call out your nonsense on that one.

          • Sadly its not nonsense, the number of ships laying off shore is rising. Whilst the Canada and now Mexico border problems are now very real indeed. No unvaccinated driver may cross the border and there are 10,000s of them.

          • Actually having checked further the major problem the USA/Canada are having are the same that most countries are. During the last 2 years lots of HGV drivers left the profession, as happens every year. But the virus restrictions have meant few have been trained and tested to replace them. The result is a net drop in drivers.
            As for unvaccinated drivers not being allowed to cross, well who wouldn’t want to keep the chronically stupid out of their country?

          • I see a German Navy Chief had to resign tonight, for making pro Russian comments. It just shows the Ruskis have sleepers in the German armed forces.

  16. Britain seems to be the only Western power doing anything regarding the imminent Russian invasion of Ukraine. Is funny that in America when Trump was President the media said he had made a secret deal with Putin but now that Biden is President and has verbally given Putin the OK to invade Ukraine the US media says nothing but how great Biden is. lol

  17. 210 comments about a decades old routine RN escort operation. This stuff was going on long before sites like this were around to report it in the public domain.

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