Classified Ministry of Defence documents have been found at a bus stop in Kent, reports the BBC.

According to the BBC, the files discuss the Russian reaction to the passage of HMS Defender through Ukrainian waters off Crimea.

“One set of documents discusses the likely Russian reaction to the ship’s passage through Ukrainian waters off the Crimea coast on Wednesday. Another details plans for a possible UK military presence in Afghanistan after the US-led NATO operation there ends.”

A Ministry of Defence spokesperson told the BBC the loss had been reported and that “It would be inappropriate to comment further.”

Recently we reported that HMS Defender ignored Russian warnings while the warship was sailing near Crimea, so Russia hit back with information warfare trying to paint a story of aggression. Russian efforts to confuse the situation caught many out, including us.

In response argues Molly McKew here, Russia “made noise”. As HMS Defender sailed around Crimea, Russia went on information offense.

“It had been decided that HMS Defender, now sailing on its own, would pass within the boundary Russia views as its territorial waters around Crimea. No one else recognizes these as Russian waters, since the annexation of Crimea is not officially recognized by almost anyone. So it seems like the UK, coordinating with its American and NATO partners, decided to make a statement to this effect — that the annexation of Crimea is not something that is de facto recognized without challenge or protest.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest
120 Comments
oldest
newest
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Gary M.
Gary M.
3 days ago

Personally I would have dropped them at the local police station and kept my mouth shut.

Bit of a coincidence though, so suspect more to this than is being shared?

DRS
DRS
3 days ago
Reply to  Gary M.

Are bbc really allowed to disclose what is in the documents. Isn’t that breaching some secrets act? Also yes why not just hand them into the police/mod that is what any person would do. What has it go to do with the bbc.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
3 days ago
Reply to  DRS

It was the same BBC that revealed details in advance of 2 PARA’s attack on Goose Green in 1982, endangering the lives of our troops – they seem to have no understanding of protecting military information.

This is such a strange story – files are hardly ever removed from a secure office.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Didn’t some opposition MP also declare that the bombs the Argentines were using had the fuses set wrong? Nice one….

farouk
farouk
3 days ago

Dan wrote:
Didn’t some opposition MP also declare that the bombs the Argentines were using had the fuses set wrong? Nice one….

Nope, that was the BBC also.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
3 days ago
Reply to  farouk

M.O.D. Incredibly the M.O.D. Press Office told the world who promptly printed it. The B.B.C. back then had just started on its journey in reporting on ‘British’ matters as if it were some supra-national body instead of one paid for by taxation on the British people.

farouk
farouk
3 days ago
Reply to  Barry Larking

Barry. Yes you are correct, but it was a closed meeting for the press who were supposed to keep what they heard under their hat. Unfortunately since 1982 the likes of the BBC have only kept quiet about the warped ideologies they deem are peaceful . Regards the quality and calibre of the idiots the likes of the BBC use as their so called subject mater experts. When I was operating my Combat Support Boat in the Falkland’s (after the war) I was tasked to covey a BBC reporter to one of the ships so he could use the marisat… Read more »

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
3 days ago
Reply to  farouk

Well, that says it all! I could never have served because of disability; you could creep up on me in a tank! But I am infuriated that an organisation like the B.B.C. is not just ‘looking out’ for the public interest as it should but actually believes itself to be above petty little issues like supporting our armed forces at the sharp end. In the final analysis it’s the B.B.C.’s ‘tone’ I object to.

This episode stinks to me. Who wouldn’t contact the police in a case such as this?

JBPeckham
JBPeckham
3 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Most of it’s low-level and not under such controls

Trevor Holcroft
Trevor Holcroft
3 days ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

And on a much more droll note, they were tipped off by the police with their helicopter to hang around Cliff Richards house. This is before we get to Bashir.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
3 days ago

Or Savile. It was The Oldie broke the story as soon after the so-and-so pegged out. Their were numerous people at the B.B.C. who knew but were gagged. Clarkson was ditched, Savile was shielded. Says much.

Karl
Karl
3 days ago
Reply to  DRS

Ask George hes an expert. Especially on deleting comments and substituting them with a pretence they are from the actual commentator.

chris stocken
chris stocken
3 days ago
Reply to  DRS

0nly if they had signed the Official Secrets Act.

Barry Larking
Barry Larking
3 days ago
Reply to  Gary M.

Me too. How comes it was the B.B.C. this person thought of to contact? The Police are the obvious first choice? Typically the B.B.C. choses to go in to bat for the other team in its report.

Terence Patrick Hewett
Terence Patrick Hewett
3 days ago

Cockup or conspiracy? Hmm.

Andy P
Andy P
3 days ago

Someone will be getting a visit from Mr Slippyfist. I’m guessing this stuff won’t just be RESTRICTED.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Andy P

Official Sensitive, with some UKEO.

James Fennell
James Fennell
3 days ago

Also some SECRET stuff about Afghanistan drawdown – could be to ensure credibility. Also who the hell takes secret home on the bus???

Last edited 3 days ago by James Fennell
ChariotRider
ChariotRider
3 days ago
Reply to  James Fennell

The Afhgan document was not reported in any detail by the BBC, thankfully, but it did say that there were concerns for any UK forces that might remain after the US pull out… In essence, they have only repeated those points that have been in the public domain for a while now. These particular documents are the most serious breach as they represent future operational options, whereas the rest of the documents appear to refer to completed operations or non-operational stuff. So for the most embarrassing. We are assuming that the someone made a mistake, they could have been mugged,… Read more »

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
3 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

It went further, the documents contain a request from President Biden to the SoS for UK special forces to remain in Afghanistan after the US pulls out.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

A given really, so no real surprise.

farouk
farouk
3 days ago
Reply to  James Fennell

James, Official documents are not meant to leave the building, Any that do have to be on signature meaning if not signed off , by the end of shift questions will be raised. For example a few years ago a Col whom I worked with decided to jump off a certain cliff. I was intervened by the SIB regards his wife hearing he was worried about the loss of certain classified document . They demanded to know where we had gotten hold of such paperwork, and when I stated that we had no such docs on the ex and that… Read more »

JBPeckham
JBPeckham
3 days ago
Reply to  farouk

‘OFFICIAL’ and ‘OFFICIAL-SENSITIVE’ are not under any auditable control. In theory ‘SECRET’ is but it’s hard to assure with a physical-digital blend of media.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago

My initial reaction. Deliberate. And how convenient that some of the papers discuss Defender. from the BBC report “an employee had reported the loss of sensitive defence papers” Left on purpose to embarrass MoD/HMG. “A member of the public, who wishes to remain anonymous, contacted the BBC when he realised the sensitive nature of the contents” Why for the life of me would anyone with an iota of common sense not hand them to the Police or ring the MoD? Maybe they knew where to find them and this is staged. There are some sinister things going on in areas… Read more »

Robert Blay.
Robert Blay.
3 days ago

I think Hancock was stiched up. Not that I agree with his actions. But it annoys me that some arsehole journalist at the Sun will have been popping champagne last night at getting a Minster out of office. All MP’s need to be held account, but I don’t like trail by media. People talk endlessly about mental health, and online bullying, and ‘Be Kind’ but it seems to be acceptable to write and share some pretty vile abuse about our politicians. Anyway. Happy Armed Forces Day 🇬🇧

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

Happy Armed Forces Day. It is no where specific this year I believe? Was in Guildford I think back in 2016, loved it.

Robert Blay
Robert Blay
3 days ago

Not sure to be honest. They make a big day of it in Cleethorpes every year. I think it’s important to keep it in the calendar, certainly now the Force’s are not in the headlines every day like they were during the Afghan years. 🇬🇧

Cymbeline
Cymbeline
3 days ago

Think it was here at the National Memorial Arboretum. Great place to visit if you have never been there.

Sceptical Richard
Sceptical Richard
3 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

Not to mention the magnum of champagne Mr Murdock would have popped. For years he’s been running this country and the USA. I agree Hancock should have gone straight away and Johnson was then weak for not firing him on the spot. But it’s equally disgusting that Murdock and his ilk should have such a sway over our politics.

Paul.P
Paul.P
2 days ago
Reply to  Robert Blay.

The Sun is the successor to the Daily Herald, which was supporter of the labour party. Make of that what you will.
I think Matt Hancock’s mental health will be improved immeasurably by being knocked off his perch 🙂

Springer
Springer
3 days ago

Need some of those old “Loose Lips Sink Ships” propagander posters dotted around to stop the public handing stuff like this in to the press! Does seem all very suss, why would it all be printed off and carried around anyway? It says Secret UK Eyes only, I can’t imagine it was just printed off and handed to a member of staff. Looks like PJHQ might struggle to pass their Cyber Essentials certificate next time round. CCTV is very dodgy too, but if it’s from their own security systems then it can be audited to find out who exported the… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Springer

Right.

And whether their own systems or a camera placed for the purpose of catching Mr H both are unacceptable in a government building, especially a Whitehall head office.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
3 days ago

Hi Daniele, A quick question, mate. If these head offices do not leak from time to time, how do we find out if powerful people are obeying the laws they expect the rest of us to abide by? No one is above the law, as I’m sure you would agree. I would also point out that the whistleblower laws have completely failed to protect people honestly calling out wrong doing at the highest levels. By the way, I am NOT in favour of a free for all, secruity is important I suppose my question is realy about how do we… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

There is a similar situation with the HoPISC.

How to oversee the Intelligence community without gaining access to sensitive information they don’t want to reveal, and/or cockups, incompetence, and so on. Like the Gareth Williams affair.

Agree on other points. Who watches the watchers? When has it ever been different? Not an answer to your question I know.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
3 days ago

“Not an answer to your question…” To be fair mate my question was a tad underhand as I didn’t think there was an answer. 🙂 Security and democracy need different things to be water tight in their own way, in effect a contradiction. We tend to want to resolve contradictions and in so doing often forget that another phrase that might better describe the problem is checks and balances. Contradictions are impossible to resolve, you have to make a choice by definition. Checks and balances are difficult to resolve. No easy choice and no one will be satisified all of… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

I know…

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Another point. Is making a recording inside a SoS office in itself a breach of the OSA?

Springer
Springer
3 days ago

Hi Dan, don’t think it’s a problem recording, as long as the many rules and procedures are followed, here’s some guidance I quickly found, might be out of date though: https://www.cpni.gov.uk/system/files/documents/c9/87/Storing-of-recorded-CCTV-images.pdf

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Springer

Cheers mate.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
3 days ago

From what I have read there are a lot of senior politicians squealing about security. Jeremy Hunt, did make a valid point about ministers needing to be able to have open and frank discussions in order to properly understand complex issues, such as pandemics. He also said we need to protect whistleblowers. The only one to have mentioned this so far reported. In this case the whistleblower highlighted Matt Hancock breaking his own laws / regulations. Nothing else has been mentioned, which suggests the whistleblower was focused on the wrongdoing. To me this is precisely what the whistleblowing rules are… Read more »

Trevor Holcroft
Trevor Holcroft
3 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Whistleblower? This is just title tattle. In the case for instance of the Kay Burley affair, some bloke went 100’s of miles to deliberately brake the rules – The Hancock business as I understand was just thoughtless. In terms of simply hanky panky, then both Robin Cook and Prescott, not to mention Ashdown, kept their jobs. I remember Cook was angling his mistress to be his diary secretary…

Last edited 3 days ago by Trevor Holcroft
Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago

Well remembered. Paddy pants down!

Trevor Holcroft
Trevor Holcroft
3 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Why are Sturgeon and husband on a job?

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
3 days ago
Reply to  Springer

Hi Springer, With regards the Matt Hannock, it was the Health Department, hardly a matter of national security and he did break his own law. The contridiction is this type of situation is how do we keep those in power accountable? Like most on here I did wonder how a security footage ‘leaked’, but on reflection we should remember that many people have lost loved ones in this pandemic. So those images of a Minister of State breaking a law he had a key role in drawing up that was aimed at limiting transmittion and saving lives is entirely underastandable… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Hancock was right to resign. I also think BJ was right not to sack him. He did not need to, Hancock should have fallen on his sword sooner.

Steve
Steve
3 days ago

I can’t help thinking it was all a bit convenient, politicians been caught doing way worse, including Boris himself. Hancock himself and his pub landlord mate scandal. I suspect his resigned to be used as a fall guy for the covid and will be back once the heat is off. You notice he has stayed as an MP, which is odd if he really felt he let down the country.

Trevor Holcroft
Trevor Holcroft
3 days ago
Reply to  Steve

I cannot see why he would have to resign as MP, certainly not in the medium term.

Steve
Steve
3 days ago

I can think of many reasons he should resign and be put into prison, for starters the death rate due to covid in this country Vs the rest of the world. However in respect of the thing he actually resigned for, I agree he shouldn’t need to resign, it’s a personal thing and an apology for breaking the rules would done. But he has resigned and why resign from health sec and not MP, if it’s because he thinks this impacts his ability to do the role then he should also resign as MP.

TrevorH
TrevorH
2 days ago
Reply to  Steve

Thats a miserable comment. UK death rate – if you re desperate to create a league table of death – is not out of line with others if you relate it to various demographics.
This is a military site – so look at WW2. We won that war, but did so whilst making endless mistakes. We made mistakes because it was impossible not to.

But you? You would put Montgomery in jail!

Steve
Steve
2 days ago
Reply to  TrevorH

I’m sorry there is a significant difference between trying your best and failing Vs what Hancock did which is constantly lie whilst giving huge contracts away to mates, meaning the nursing home mess happened. This isn’t speculation, there is plenty of evidence, including now two lost court actions around the contracts (gov tried to argue that the contracts were not a matter of public interest to avoid the action and failed). Our death rate is one of the worst in the world and only behind Belgium in the western world, yes you can compare. He should have gone last year… Read more »

TrevorH
TrevorH
2 days ago
Reply to  Steve

I dont like your comments at all

Trevor Holcroft
Trevor Holcroft
3 days ago

This is fair comment. Plus there is the issue of the need not to disrupt the otherwise running of things at a key time. I am reminded of Nott who Thaycher did not accept his resignation. This is irrespective of how good Hancock is as a minister, I really dont know, few will. But in the event a ready made replacement of some stature can step into place. So effectively the govt continues with no great problem. But at it’s heart …. if I was a politician, a minister, I would not trust the civil service as far as i… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
2 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

I wouldn’t be surprised if Carrie authorised the cameras in Matt’s office 😉
Boris needed to get rid of Hancock before the covid enquiry gets underway.

Last edited 2 days ago by Paul.P
James Fennell
James Fennell
3 days ago

I tend to agree.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
3 days ago

Hi Daniele, Whilst I agree with you that deliberate leaks are too common place I don’t think this is the case here. Why leave the paper out in the open in the rain. The documents were so badly handled that they ended up being soaked and could have been destroyed or very seriously damaged to the point of being useless. If this was a planned leak I would have thought they would have been taken much better care of, i.e. left unattended for the minimum amount of time. Why take the risk of loosing your career if you don’t make… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Hi CR.

You may well be right. You could also say they were left in the rain to not make it look too obvious!

Catherine Gunn quit GCHQ and leaked because of her conscience over surveillance, they may be others within MoD ?

Wonder if we will ever know.

James Fennell
James Fennell
3 days ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

Topicality is always suspect…. as George Smiley would say.

David
David
3 days ago

Er, Hancock being being surveiled in HIS office? I suggest the Security Service were there earlier than you think.

And does the UK have a little form for little grey men to become involved when it is felt the “people in power” need a nudge?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  David

Without doubt. I also believe when a new government forms ministers are not appointed without the yay or nay of the SS who may have files and other compromising materials. The PM can ignore their opinion but that seems unlikely.

WHAT fun it would have been with the characters in opposition in 2019!

Watcherzero
Watcherzero
3 days ago

The leak is embarassing but the papers contents certainly arent. They show the mission plan correctly predicted exactly what happened, take a direct route past Crimea to assert freedom of navigation, support Ukraine and avoid a potential accusation that the UK was recognising Russian sovereignty by keeping its distance. Expectation that the Russian reaction would be neither ‘safe nor professional’.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Watcherzero

Yes, true. So, a screw up? Which brings back to MR’s point, why printed off on varied subjects and not encypted on a laptop?

Steve
Steve
3 days ago

It would be interesting to know if the BBC has kept some info back, because to me there is nothing in the leak that is vaguely secret or couldn’t have been guessed at.

Terence Patrick Hewett
Terence Patrick Hewett
3 days ago

Yes I think it is deliberate: but of course I am a suspicious cynic. The paranoid Ivans of course will believe it is a Plot.

Sean
Sean
3 days ago

Cockup not conspiracy, which is true in 99% of cases – despite what the flat-earther, anti-vax types will tell you. Let’s face it, only 50% of people in any given profession are competent and if you work in IT like myself you probably reckon that’s optimistic too. If someone was going to leak these they’d had have left them someone where even the laziest of journos would find them in pristine condition, not hope for a third party to hand them to a news agency. The person who found and handed them to the BBC probably isn’t a Tory voter… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Sean

Yes all that is quite possible Sean.

farouk
farouk
3 days ago

Dan,
until a few years ago such stuff was transported across the Uk (and beyond) by a branch of the military.(based at Mill Hill) Then the accountants got on board, and decided that sending such stuff parcel force was a lot cheaper. All it takes now is for a foreign service , a political activist to get a job with parcel force, intercept such packages , open them up copy them, reseal in a different bag and send on its way.

Last edited 3 days ago by farouk
Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  farouk

Yes mate, all BFPO moved to a purpose built site at Northolt, just to SE of runway close to the A40 boundary.

Farouk
Farouk
3 days ago

So just reading the BBC account and it appears that those sensitive documents were printed out emails and copies on paper of a PowerPoint pres.

I get the impression this was just a publicity stunt by the left of the political centre designed to remove another minister from post with the future aim of a loss of faith in the government resulting in another General election.

Last edited 3 days ago by Farouk
Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  farouk

I wasn’t aware all had been privatised mate. I agree, the plague of privatisation changing a system that as far as I’m aware worked and was secure.

Steve
Steve
3 days ago

Who uses papers these days, surely most confidential docs are stored on encrypted computers and not allowed to be printed etc. Combine that with the normal reaction of someone finding the docs would be to chuck in bin without even looking at them, or if they did take home and read then bin. If going to make public surely you share with a newspaper that will pay for them. Who shares with the BBC which would be free.

JohnH
JohnH
3 days ago

Well if I found some classified documents behind a bus stop I would be shocked by the lapse in security. I would then have a dilemma. Should I hand them in to the MOD so that they can just cover up the lapse, or hand them to a carefully selected 3rd party so that the MOD gets a rocket and hopefully improves security? What would you do?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  JohnH

Have a good read first, then hand in to police.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
3 days ago
Reply to  JohnH

You hand them in to the nearest Police Station and ASAP.

Springer
Springer
3 days ago
Reply to  JohnH

Hand to Police (but give a copy to George so he can put it on here!)

Steve
Steve
3 days ago
Reply to  JohnH

I would assume it was some students project or something like that, as i wouldn’t believe the MOD/Gov would be that stupid.

john melling
john melling
2 days ago
Reply to  JohnH

Hand it in to the nearest military base,  Army Reserve or recruitment centre!
Simple as…

Nic
Nic
3 days ago

Secure documents secure courier enough said

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Nic

MoD has an in house one too, Defence Courier Service at MoD Northolt.

Nic
Nic
3 days ago
Reply to  Nic

Was it attached to the bus stop or was it left on a bench , was it in a secure pouch or just loose .
As I said secure documents would be transported by secure courier if required or internal secure network .
Not a civil servant or military person catching the bus . It’s a bit odd it’s like something out of a film a mist drop off.

Malcolm Rich
Malcolm Rich
3 days ago

Again I am amazed and a little confused how this can happen. When I worked in the MoD on anything classified above Restricted (old classified system) all documents were individually accounted for in the classified document register. You would need to book out and in but that was for use in the facility. You had to get specific permission to take out and would need the appropriate storage at home. This does sound suspicious as the classification used was not in line with current policy….. Who prints stuff out these days, all media is individually encrypted so a lot safer… Read more »

Nic
Nic
3 days ago
Reply to  Malcolm Rich

Yes all government departments and military have systems in place to account for sensitive documents.
So it should not be hard to trace the person who had it initially.

david
david
3 days ago

It said that some details were not discussed by the BBC to protect sensitive information. I mentioned it on another thread that I found it surprising that they sent a ship with AAW only with no ability to defend itself against surface or sub threats. I thought maybe one of our subs as backup would have been prudent.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  david

I believe subs from non Black Sea states are not permitted in the Black sea.

Trevor Holcroft
Trevor Holcroft
3 days ago
Reply to  david

We sent a T45 there a little while back…. It’s nothing unusual.

The thing that comes out to me was the spoofing. The West perhaps need to do some anti spoofing propaganda and actions in real time to counteract russia

Rob
Rob
3 days ago

This all seems highly suspicious to me. Firstly UKEO documents shouldn’t even leave the building. Secondly don’t top MOD officials have cars, what’s it doing at a bus stop? Thirdly, while it may be the case that an official would be briefed on one area of defence posture surely they wouldn’t be carrying a portfolio of a broad range of topics?

Something very fishy going on here….
Oh and the BBC should have returned them directly to the MOD instead of going to press.

Paul.P
Paul.P
2 days ago
Reply to  Rob

Agree. This is suspicious and is suggestive of a news diversion. It’s accepted I think that governments do leak or announce attention provoking news when they want to divert attention from events which are unflattering or could even endanger their continuance. Since the Tories especially exert huge influence on what their tame press ‘prints’ it means, for example that front pages might carry big headlines on lost documents which compete for space on the front page with, say, Mr Hancock’s demise. The ‘man in the street’ reads a tabloid. Compare the front pages of the Express and Mail with the… Read more »

Rob
Rob
2 days ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Well I was thinking more like foreign espionage.

Paul.P
Paul.P
2 days ago
Reply to  Rob

That’s possible of course, but weighing the impact on the scales; on the one hand that the Russians would panic and be upset about Defender’s course and that we might be leaving special forces in Afghanistan is not going to bring the government down rather it makes it look stronger. Contrast with Hancock’s behaviour which has already impacted trust in the government and had it continued would have cost them electoral seats…..classic tactics, find or engineer some good news to deflect attention from bad news. Maybe I’m just a suspicious cynic…I ask myself, who benefits from this? Answer, Boris.

Last edited 2 days ago by Paul.P
Derek
Derek
10 hours ago
Reply to  Paul.P

I am pretty sure the MOD stated that the individual reported the loss.No further comment. So may have been in a briefcase or rucksack that was stolen, docs pulled out and dumped behind bus stop as of zero interest to a druggie and spotted by someone later (hence wet) and mischievously handed to BBC.

James
James
3 days ago

Many were attacking me yesterday for calling the MOD incompetent regarding how they handled HMS Defender and the Russians..and now we find files relating to HMS Defender mission were left at a bus stop. Flag waving bandwagon without competent people makes us not more secure unfortunately! Constructive critque is what we need that encourages success and not supporting every failure just for the sake of it. Some even called me pro Russia 😃

Last edited 3 days ago by James
Airborne
Airborne
3 days ago
Reply to  James

James this is far to much of a coincidence, far to much and stinks of a bit of a stitch up! Look at the actions of the “anonymous” person who found them….take them to the BBC…really? Look past the one dimensional story which suits a number of narratives and see other possibilities and probabilities. Cheers.

Steve
Steve
3 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

The issue with this being a conspiracy, is the question of motive. Nothing appears to have been leaked that would do any damage to anyone or in fact couldn’t have been guessed at. It’s not like the papers contained embarrassing things that would require changes, like snowden etc.

Last edited 3 days ago by Steve
BB85
BB85
3 days ago
Reply to  Steve

It contained details of the UK plans post US withdrawal from Afghanistan. That’s extremely sensitive information and never should have left the building never mind being left at a bus stop. Why would you in your right mind even transport such information using on public transport. If it was accidental the official should be prosecuted as they must have broken multiple protocols but must feel they will get a slap on the wrist to do something so incompetent.

Steve
Steve
3 days ago
Reply to  BB85

Hard to know how much details those plans has, but doesn’t sound like a lot. But totally agree shouldn’t have left the building.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
3 days ago
Reply to  Airborne

Agree mate.

Trevor Holcroft
Trevor Holcroft
3 days ago
Reply to  James

What has been wrong with the Defender

JBPeckham
JBPeckham
3 days ago

Gotta be deliberate with HMS DEFENDER mentioned like that. It’s a collection of documents that conveniently set out an MOD position that they wouldn’t publicly shout about but might benefit some parties from being in the public domain.

Plus, (A) who just leaves documents at a bus stop, it’s not a Carry On film. And (B) most normal people would hand it in, rather than contact the BBC.

Some responsibility shown by BBC by not releasing details of the SUKEO report.

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
3 days ago

Conspiracy – “ Two or more people acting together in accord with an agreed upon idea and intention” Many seem to dismiss incidents like this as coincidence or incompetence and find the alternative explanation that there are people in positions and authority who have goals and agendas the public are unaware of and are not privy too so fantastically implausible . However not every conspiracy has to reach the dizzy heights of the moon is made of cheese. Sensitive Documents that just happen to be left at a bus stop that relate to an incident that’s just been in the… Read more »

Nick C
Nick C
3 days ago

I would tend towards the cock up theory, but the sheer immediacy of finding these papers, and where they were found, does look more than odd. If my schoolboy Latin is correct the phrase is “quis custodiet ipses custodies” which translates as “ who guards the guardians “ Could it be that we are looking at some internal MOD squabble and there has been a bit of points scoring/ score settling going on? Or perhaps some unfortunate official is looking at a pier head jump to the post of junior assistant baggage officer in Kabul or Diego Garcia, because they… Read more »

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
3 days ago
Reply to  Nick C

Indeed it truly is a mystery and Joe public will be left guessing about. I just don’t know but it’s fishy.

Kudos with the Latin though 👍🏻 On a total tangent which I’m partial too 😉 that phrase totally brought back memories of an Amstrad cpc464 game I had that had “ who watches the watchers” on the high score chart. I now must find out what that game was called 👊🏼💯

Roger that on the coming days …………….

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

john melling
john melling
2 days ago

I’m sure that game was called Gryzor \ Contra 😜 

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
2 days ago
Reply to  john melling

Out €@€£&ng standing👊🏼👍🏻 Yes indeed it was 1987 fantastic year great game great times well remembered

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇬🇧

Brian
Brian
3 days ago

This is some kind of weird psyop. “Secret” documents found behind a bus shelter about the Crimea incident. The story is so bizarre – the way the docs were found, the fact that the BBC is allowed to report it and details inside (what happened to D-Notices then?) or that the person who “found” them isn’t under some gag order.

Bill
Bill
3 days ago

You don’t leave a newspaper at a bus stop let alone top secret papers. Why are papers being removed from the office; is this with permission? Why? Who takes ‘papers’ home anyway? Another MOD laughing stock.

Gfor
Gfor
1 day ago
Reply to  Bill

I think you’d be surprised.
With the reduction in the MoD estate, some offices cannot accommodate all of the staff so working from home has always been necessary. Coupled with Covid, WFH has been seen as a relative normal for support staff.

dan
dan
3 days ago

Well at least they didn’t give them to CNN. lol

Ron Stateside
Ron Stateside
3 days ago

Instead of attacking the MOD, who among us is bright enough to have considered this is yet enough Russian disinformation campaign???

After all, along with exporting gas, pornography, weapons, trolling, hacking, and ransomware, it is their bread and butter is it not???

Ron Stateside
Ron Stateside
3 days ago
Reply to  Ron Stateside

Considered the possibility . . . Sorry having trouble with the edit function.

Billythefish
Billythefish
3 days ago

Russian actions demonstrating that they are all over the UK. Shame really as the RN thought they had pulled a decent stunt in the Black Sea.

Matt Hancock CCTV footage could also have been shared by the Russian spooks.

Not a great weekend for the UK.

Jacko
Jacko
3 days ago
Reply to  Billythefish

What’s the problem? Defender takes a lawful cruise in a sea lane,Russians take the hump. Hancock gets caught out and resigns.
Some idiot thinks he is James Bond and again it’s all our fault🙄

Springer
Springer
3 days ago

Sky news are saying it was a Senior Civil Servant, if that’s the case it beggars belief it could happen accidentally.

Tom Keane
Tom Keane
3 days ago

Classified files left in a soggy heap behind a bus stop in Kent. Then, the good old Beeb comments on the contents, and shows some nice pictures. You really couldn’t write this stuff however much you tried. Come back Harry palmer, all is forgiven.

JJ Smallpiece
JJ Smallpiece
3 days ago

A dead letter drop?

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
2 days ago
Reply to  JJ Smallpiece

Usually behind a pew in Brompton Oratory!

Jonathan
Jonathan
3 days ago

Never underestimate how easy it is to fuck up data and information security. I’ve done it myself. I had to present official sensitive data across a number of organisations with some individuals who did not have email, so I had to take them paper copies. The meetings to discuss this were always long and I had to take the papers back to destroy them, tired after a long meeting I managed to leave the who lot on a train ( 6 months worth of nightmares that would not do the public any favours to know). I realised as soon as… Read more »

Jacko
Jacko
2 days ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Ok it happens! But you realised what you had done and took action, For these documents to be out of this blokes possession long enough for a person to ‘find’ them and then decide to contact the BBC really beggars belief.

Rob Collinson
Rob Collinson
2 days ago

Was this a ‘dead-drop’? John Le Carré eat you heart out!!!

BigH1979
BigH1979
2 days ago
Reply to  Rob Collinson

Absolutely. Everyone is so intent on discovering Electronic Data Leaks and Breaches nowadays. Who says a good old ‘Top Secret Papers’ handover wouldn’t attract as much attention as a Data Cut or Download? I expect the Russians have a lot more to offer now than a 2nd Floor Apartment, your own Trabant and as much Cabbage Soup and Vodka as you can eat.

col
col
2 days ago

Remember in 2008 when a government worker left a laptop on a train with details of terror flights. Remember when a high police official carried sensitive documents on terror raids in his hand while going into number 10, while the Journalist/photographers simply photographed them, forcing terror raids to be brought forward. Also, didn’t documents about the Falkland defensive locations of missile sites get leaked a few years ago?

Robert Elcombe
Robert Elcombe
2 days ago

You find classified documents at your local bus stop. Do you A. Give them to the BBC who publish the details? B. Arrange collection and help maintain national security?

If the BBC receives classified documents do they A. responsibly handle the issue. B. sensationally publish them in such a way to create maximum embarrassment for both the DoD and the country?