The amount of ammunition being consumed in the Russo-Ukrainian conflict has surpassed all estimates.

This is starting to put pressure on the production and supply chains involved in the manufacture of ammunition for artillery guns among other weapons systems.

The amount of ammunition being consumed in the Russo-Ukrainian conflict has surpassed all estimates. This is starting to put pressure on the production and supply chains involved in the manufacture of ammunition for artillery guns among other weapons systems.


This article is the opinion of the author and not necessarily that of the UK Defence Journal. If you would like to submit your own article on this topic or any other, please see our submission guidelines.


This is not an unprecedented problem. In warfare throughout history, armies have often underestimated the level of force and destruction of equipment that will be encountered and the amount of ammunition that will be consumed.

Time and again, this has affected military planning. For example, a lack of shells for British artillery in the first world war resulted in a crisis that led to the downfall of the government of Herbert Asquith.

But the protagonists of the two world wars were typically able to sustain their efforts despite huge levels of destruction comes down to the fact that weapons of that era were relatively simple to produce compared to today’s sophisticated military hardware. And the relative cheapness of the weapons allowed extensive numbers to be produced during the conflict.


Since Vladimir Putin sent his war machine into Ukraine on February 24 2022, The Conversation has called upon some of the leading experts in international security, geopolitics and military tactics to help their readers understand the big issues. You can also subscribe to their weekly recap of expert analysis of the conflict in Ukraine.


The Russo-Ukrainian war has not involved loss rates of equipment or consumption of material on the scale of the world wars. But, despite this, destruction of major, technologically cutting-edge, equipment can cause a headache for military planners and strategists.

Nato members and other European countries have sent a great deal of equipment, beginning with air defence systems and escalating more recently to main battle tanks such as the Challenger II and Leopard. If the security of individual nations, Europe and Nato is to remain secure, this equipment will have to be replaced.

Balance sheet

While losses of equipment in the Russo-Ukrainian are difficult to verify, various bodies including Oryx and Army Technology, an open-source intelligence site, have provided estimates on equipment losses. But when looking at these figures it is important not to look at just the raw numbers. Weapons lost, destroyed or used up need to be compared with the total numbers estimated to have been deployed.

Estimates of the numbers of Russian equipment deployed since February 2022 are 15,857 infantry fighting vehicles and 1,391 aircraft. Their estimated losses, up to the end of December 2022, according to Oryx, are 794 infantry fighting vehicles, 71 aircraft and 91 artillery pieces.

Ukrainian estimated available deployment has been 3,309 infantry fighting vehicles and 128 aircraft. Their estimated losses as of the end of December 2022 are 418 infantry fighting vehicles, 55 aircraft and 92 artillery pieces.

Major modern defence equipment, such as the F-35 Lightning fast-jet aircraft and the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers, is becoming ever more sophisticated and expensive. So it’s no longer possible for replacements to be manufactured quickly. And the sheer cost of this hardware means it’s virtually impossible to keep replacements in reserve for when losses occur.

When ordering the F-35 Lighting, with the first deliveries expected in 2012, the UK originally set out to purchase a total of 138 aircraft. But the timeline for reaching this total has been delayed and now that number has been reduced due to affordability problems.

The first batch of 48 aircraft is due to be delivered by 2025, with an additional 27 by 2033. This delivery schedule, which represents less than four aircraft per year between 2025 and 2033, has been agreed with the manufacturer largely on production and cost factors. Such numbers make the creation of a reserve force next to impossible.

Such a delivery schedule, caused partly by having to spread deliveries over a longer time period due to cost implications, but also because of the length of time that such equipment takes to be manufactured, means these assets become of increasing value.

Reports suggest that it takes more than 41,000 hours per worker to manufacture an individual F-35 jet aircraft. Such a lead time in manufacturing limits the total amount that can delivered in any one year. With the current backlog of orders awaiting delivery, the replacement of aircraft lost to enemy action or flying accidents could take many years, and perhaps even decades.

Risk-averse

Losing such important and technologically sophisticated military assets, may lead to commanders in the field becoming more risk-averse when it comes to their direct deployment and engagement with an enemy that has an equivalent – or near equivalent – capability.

Without a mass of reserves to replace equipment that has been destroyed in the war, some of this equipment (which – let’s not forget – can cost millions or even billions of pounds) may not be deployed at all. While this is an extreme outcome, the potential for political backlash from the general public is great for politicians and senior military leaders.

This potential for increased risk averseness could mean these cutting-edge assets are not deployed or deployed only in exceptional circumstances.

Falling budgets

There’s also an interesting equation involved in modern defence budget calculations. The increasing sophistication and accuracy of today’s weapons means fewer can be deployed to achieve similar damage to the enemy. In other words, more can be achieved with less.

Defence budgets as a proportion of overall government spending have tended to fall since the second world war – and particularly since the end of the cold war. This is what’s known as the “peace dividend”.

But at the same time, individual pieces of equipment are vastly more expensive. Time will tell whether this will mean field commanders are more unwilling to commit to the use of such expensive equipment when it is more difficult to replace. This could change the nature of the conflict and bring another meaning to the phrase the “cost of war”.The Conversation

Matthew Powell, Teaching Fellow in Strategic and Air Power Studies, University of Portsmouth

This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

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I am an air power historian interested in the development of tactical air power, the relationship between air forces and the aviation industry and air power and strategy. I have published widely on the development of tactical air power in the Royal Air Force in the Second World War and the efforts of the Air Ministry to rationalise and improve the capabilities of the British aviation industry during the inter-war period.
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Nick Cole
Nick Cole
1 year ago

So if we are risk averse in the deployment of technically complex pieces of equipment it means that the simplest solution needs to be relied on more than ever. That is boots on the ground with personal weapons and lots of associated ammunition.

Matt
Matt
1 year ago

There seem to be some large inconsistencies in the numbers in this article. I hope the author can put me right. eg “Estimates of the numbers of Russian equipment deployed since February 2022 are 15,857 infantry fighting vehicles and 1,391 aircraft. Their estimated losses, up to the end of December 2022, according to Oryx, are 794 infantry fighting vehicles, 71 aircraft and 91 artillery pieces.” AFAICS the Oryx page linked actually says for IFVs lost: “Infantry Fighting Vehicles (2206, of which destroyed: 1414, damaged: 66, abandoned: 119, captured: 607)” That’s out by a factor of 3 just on reproducing a number… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt
Gayle
Gayle
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt

I suggest you look up Scott Ritter ex marine and un weapons inspector

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 year ago

Reports of the wargames on how a Chinese invasion of Taiwan would go, suggest the West wins only if the US can launch vast numbers of JASSM-ER & LRASM. Britain has spent £12 billion? on F-35 & QE/PoW carriers, yet that can only put 500lb Paveway IV on target. UK F-35B really need a large, stand off weapon under the wings quickly.
I would also do a quick buy of Ground launched SDB for UK MLRS, as an interim long range precision weapon.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 year ago
Reply to  John Hartley

NSM/ JASSM_ER are as you rightly state vital armaments and something the RAF/ RN needs to embrace as equipment fit for F35Bs/ Typhoons. The government have put all our investments and funds into the joint UK/ France future heavy stand off weapon which may or may not enter service, depends whether the French screw us over by withdrawing from the project just as it is about to reach completion, to then market their own “intellectual property” version and sell this themselves. Not like they haven’t done it before, Rafale was a son of Typhoon after all. I’d like the RAF… Read more »

Steve R
Steve R
1 year ago
Reply to  John Hartley

Fully agree.

I know people say that Spear3 will be a fantastic weapon, and I agree with that, but we’re not getting it for at least another 4 years. Air-launched anti-ship missiles are needed now.

I’d say go for JSM and integrate it with F-35s, Typhoons, and also P8 Poseidons.

Even if JSM doesn’t fit into the F-35B’s internal bays, they can be carried under the wings. Whilst this does affect the stealth profile of the F-35B, it’s better than relying on 500lb bombs that have to be dropped so close that the stealth advantage is drastically reduced anyway.

John Hartley
John Hartley
1 year ago
Reply to  Steve R

Naval News has just posted a video on an arms fair in Japan. Japan has bought JSM for its F-35A. Kongsberg says it is willing to put JSM under the wings of Japanese F-35B, if the Japanese government orders it. If that happens, then I think it wise for the UK to also buy JSM for the under the wings of its F-35B.

Stu
Stu
1 year ago

So, HMS Victory cost £63176 in 1765. That same year, total government expenditure was £12M. So 1 ship was 0.52% of expenditure.
In 2020, total government spending was £948B. 0.52% of which is £4.82B.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 year ago
Reply to  Stu

Nice comparison, there. And as an indication of long term investment value, we still have HMS Victory 👍. Agree of course, we got some aircraft carrier hardware for not dissimilar figures i.e. always nice to see something for your financial outlay, even if folk then have the relatively luxury of indulging in whether it was quite the right thing.

Aternatively, though accept what Land Forces are saying e.g. £5B uplift not sufficient, it may have been sufficient it they had not spaffed, let me see, about 5B on – what, exactly 🤔.
Rgs

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  Stu

But the actual cost was only the equivalent of around £10 million today…government….comparisons are very hard…

Stu
Stu
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Yeah, based on PPP or some other such stat but it’s nigh on impossible to make a truly direct comparison. We have to remember 99.9% of wealth was in the hands of 0.1% of people which skews data somewhat. GDP in 1765 was something in the order of £120-150M so gov spending was 10% of GDP. Now we’re at £3.9T ish & 30% gov spending (unrelated to Defence but let that sink in…). £63k = 0.05% of GDP in 1765 which would work out to be £2B today – more than an Astute. We can play with numbers all day:… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  Stu

Indeed it’s such an impossible set of comparisons in reality…..a couple of 18c first rates like the victory could spend all day chasing each other around basting away and not really get very far….where as one well placed lRASM could end a large warship in moments…one Asute could send an entire fleet to the bottom of the sea. Its only every really possible to make comparisons in that moment of time…it’s sort of like people who make moral comparison or evaluation of historic figures….calling any human being from the 18c racist in the modern sense of the world is pointless…..it’s… Read more »

Stu
Stu
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Some subtle digs in there 😁 very good 👍🏼

I agree though, it’s all relative to the moment. Hence I disagree with the article. Fairly sure nobody was bemoaning the cost of the Hood when she went down. Only the terrible waste of life. It was War & the cost (monetary) was irrelevant, as it will be in a future conflict. The only concern would be the loss of an asset when we have so few to lose.

Also agree with your (hopefully not sarcastic) statement regards judging people from the past by todays “standards”.

Defence thoughts
Defence thoughts
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

One of the items found in all infantryman’s packs across history was a spoon. Nationhood requires a deep feeling of affection for the past, partly born out of feeling a kinship with it. Without comparing ourselves with it, there can be no kinship. Children would be denied the deep joy they feel when they discover an ancestor they had something in common with. Britain feels pride in itself precisely because of the continuity of civilisation and governance that it has sustained over centuries. We have peace due to the American Empire conquering or subsuming its rivals with the help of… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago

Hi there is a very big difference between trying to understand history, learning the lessons of history and making comparisons with history.The first two are useful as the first allows you to understand how we have got to where we are, the second can give us warnings…but comparison is a rabbit hole you should not go down….look how poor our navy is now compared to in the good old days when….or look how guilty we are as the empire was so evil because….. are both utter tosh..you can only do comparison against the norm of that time and to do… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonathan
Defence thoughts
Defence thoughts
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

My statement was not about shame (we agree on the Irish potato famine), but pride. History is incremental. There is no absolute cut-off point. I will have more in common with an 18th century abolitionist, than with a 5th century post-Roman warlord. I will not have EVERYTHING in common with the former (he may have different views to me on women or sovereignty in line with the attitudes of his time), but the commonalities will be there. Even in the deep past, some things reverberate across history. The Bible itself contains both abhorrent ideas by modern standards (stone adulterers!) but… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago

I don’t disagree with that as I said understanding history and how it has created the now is important…my issue is the the use of equivalency between now and some time in history or some time in history and now… you can feel pride the history of your nation or cultures past achievements but you cannot place modern equivalency on actions in the past…

Defence thoughts
Defence thoughts
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Fair enough.

grizzler
grizzler
1 year ago
Reply to  Stu

Slightly off topic I agree but…I’d like to see what criteria they use to define ‘unnecessary scans’ – Are they scans that show no subsequent issues , or those that some pious expert in his field dismisses post scan result..as neither woud truly be unnecessary.
I doubt very much NHS GP’s send people for scans at every request – Although maybe they do if they have been slated previously for ‘missed opportunities’ …everything has a consequence not least the “wheres theres blame theres a clailm” culture we live in….

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  grizzler

This is very true and it’s one of the things that both piss me of and make my job very hard…what people tend to do in health care is measure inefficiency by hindsight…look when you check against final diagnostic coding 50% of people did not need to be in an Accident and emergency department….the Answer back to this is Yes but from their initial presentation they did not know that and neither would a healthcare professional without actually examining them undertaking diagnosis tests and getting a diagnosis…. The cost of finding problems early and saving lives and function is that… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonathan
Stu
Stu
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Thank you for the insight. Really interesting ideas there that the populace (myself included) wouldn’t have considered. I’ll only disagree slightly on one thing; economy of scale. The purchasing power of the NHS is insane & in some areas is wielded really really well. It could be used in other areas too but I suspect the structure may get in the way(?). I don’t know. I do know (from a supplier side) that it could be done better sometimes. Really not the forum but this is a polite exchange so; I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on this –… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  Stu

Hi stu the avoid death at all cost in the western world is actually one of those really import things to think about as it may become something very personal….stuff like wishes in resuscitation and what level of active treatment you would like are so very import questions that we very much fail to ask ourselves….we sometime therefore create suffering in the pursuit of life…I have seen people dragged off to surgery that really should not be….resuscitated into a vegetative state or to simply have to die a second time in a few hours….the amount of effort we put into… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by Jonathan
Paul.P
Paul.P
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Mmm. Indeed one patient with 4 conditions is more expensive to treat than 4 people each with one condition. I think the main issue with the NHS is that it works like a production line factory making model T Fords. The goal is efficiency and minimum cost. People with one condition usually go on to have more condition because frankly the treatments don’t work. ( Keir Starmer’s favourite phrase these days is ‘sticking plaster’ – its interesting that his wife works for the NHS). You must treat the patient not the disease. A person suffering a bereavement ( in which… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Hi Paul, yes it’s unfortunately true we do have a society that is making us I’ll, to be honest it’s not just the a UK problem but it seems to be most prevalent in Northern Europe, North America…I think we can probably take some leaning from places like Spain and Italy..as noted they spend far less than we do on healthcare and in the main that’s because they have a healthy population….the best way to control health spending and put the NHS back on an even keel and keep a responsible spend is to have a healthy population. To be… Read more »

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Well Jonathan, that’s an impressive list of health guidance. Sadly most people have neither the time nor the inclination to take any notice of it. Swamps and alligators syndrome I’m afraid, everyone is too busy earning money to survive and buy optional extras like a home and a family. As my grandmother used to say, advice is only for those who will take it. Our problem is that we have a disease of the soul but we are so smart we ( including and perhaps especially the NHS which is at the core of national culture) don’t believe such a… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  Paul.P

Hi Paul, yes that’s the fundamental problem..unfortunately modern life is disconnecting people with the needs of their minds and bodies….and I agree mental health in modern society is a very big problem and I do agree mental health is a Cinderella service in this county…we talk about parity between physical and mental health but we don’t have it…I think it’s because you can measure a physical health intervention…give a prices vs benfit… it’s so much harder to do that with mental health interventions.

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Its easy to measure the effects of ‘mental illness’ …as the saying goes ‘it’s the economy, stupid’. 🙂
E.g. get smashed> think with your gonads>vote for brexit>lower GDP

Stu
Stu
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Hi, apologies for the delay, been a busy week or so. A lot of tongue in cheek here so please don’t be offended, not my intent. Don’t feel obliged to answer all the questions either. Just the one on global rising costs. 😊 Could not agree more on the ‘avoid death at all costs’. Everyone I’ve discussed this with (many people) sided with a dignified end at 70ish rather than a vegetative blob at 80+ (excuse the harsh terminology). For me, once I can’t wipe my own bum, if something happens, just let me go. “DNR” as our American chums… Read more »

Stu
Stu
1 year ago
Reply to  grizzler

As is said, not sure how true. It was a year or two since I read it. Wasn’t attacking the NHS, just a throw away example of “waste” of £2B here, no one is bothered. ‘Waste’ £5B on Ajax & it’s front page news. That is to say, we’re all given to believe by media that defence spending is ‘insanely expensive and wasteful’ when it isn’t.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 year ago
Reply to  Jonathan

10 billion not million today

Jonathan
Jonathan
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Indeed… Thankyou a slip of the keyboard.

Ian
Ian
1 year ago
Reply to  Stu

I tend prefer comparisons from the early 20th century because if you go back to the 1700s you’re comparing against a pre-industrial economy.

Stu
Stu
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian

Fair one. Shall we do the QE of 1914? Love a bit of maths in the afternoon.

Cost £3,014,103 then. U.K. GDP was £3B ish. So 0.1% GDP.
Today, GDP = £3.9T so 0.1% = £3.9B
Total Gov spend in 1914 was roughly £400M so 0.75% was on one ship. Equal to £7.35B today. 7 Astutes-ish for the price of one QE battleship.
We laid down 2 that year and 3 more in 1915.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago

I’m not at all sure the article is on point. What we have learned is that old school Soviet tactics around carpeting use of artillery waste massive levels of munitions to little real gain. It doesn’t follow from that the all warfare expense massive levels of munitions. Whereas we have learned is that relatively small numbers of highly precise weapons have had a very strong asymmetrical effect. HIMARS – not even the long range version NLAWS – not even very expensive Javelin – older models Stinger – older versions And that using those very precise weapons has had a devastating… Read more »

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 year ago

Hm, agreed, SB, and naturally the same issues of bringing equipment on line in a meaningful timespan will affect your modern opponent. Still, as we’ve been previously discussing, guns will again have their day with smart / extended range shells. Also, simpler items like JDAM offer a comparitively cost effective solution. Not forgetting UK’s own policy with regard to missiles of making them familial derivations of one another to a great extent.

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago

Hi SB, I think we agree there is a place for a Hi Low mix of capabilities. As we have all said having one mega super widget capable of stopping anything that comes near it is all very well, until you find out your enemy has simply driven around it and is now sitting in your capital city with a pistol held to the heads of your ruling elite… As a rather extreme example of a Hi / Low capability mix, I was watching the BBC News the other night and one of the correspondents was doing a report on… Read more »

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  ChariotRider

There is a use for some Hi/Lo mix where it doesn’t over complicate things. I’d agree things like the 50 cal are fundamentally good and useful. I’d be surprised if the MAXIM was that accurate compared to a UK spec 50 cal? Accuracy matters a lot. It is one of the reasons the Ukranians are using so much ammunition. Yes, they are more considered than the Russians who fire in the hope not expectation of hitting things. And yes the Ukrainians are using better targeting. Fundamentally if the weapon has less accuracy and range you need more shots for the… Read more »

ChariotRider
ChariotRider
1 year ago

Hi SB, I agree with everything you say, however, the point I am making I suppose is that when you are really up against it anything is better than nothing and old kit can keep you in the fight whilst prodution is ramped up. Desperate times mean desperate measures and lets not kid ourselves the Ukrainians are still seriously up against it despite what Zelensky says. This old Maxim gun is helping to keep them in the fight and the Russians are helping by using WW1 style human wave tactics. The Maxim proved itself to be more than good enough… Read more »

Last edited 1 year ago by ChariotRider
AlexS
AlexS
1 year ago

The Polish buy of Korean FA-50 small fighter shows the necessity of a low cost aircraft because quantities matter when shtf.
In peace you can play the hyper high tech card but when losses and heavy maintenance starts things change and you still need tools to fight.

Hermes
Hermes
1 year ago
Reply to  AlexS

A mix of high-end systems (here the F35) and a less advanced and less expensive fighter (so not the EF2000…) will become mandatory to maintain enough systems.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 year ago
Reply to  AlexS

The Polish buy of FA-50s is intriguing only time will tell if they are mad geniuses for buying an inferior low end jet that likely cannot compete with latest Mig and Sukhoi variants or the FA50s will offer a genuine 2nd line capability for close air support and light bombing as well as anti-drone, anti helos interception. Numbers have a capability on their own and if we had enough kit we would’nt be worrying about some attrition loses. the fact the RAF/FAA is down to around 130 high performance jets is the concern. MPA fleet of just 9, AWACS- only… Read more »

Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

What’s probably more important is the systems it has and the weapons it carries. A super manoeuvrable jet is useless if it’s been wiped out by a missile at 40 miles.
Poland seems to be getting the FA50 quickly which is important to them. Will be great for Air patrol, bomb drops etc. No doubt cheaper to operate.
The thinking being it’s an suitable replacement for the mig29 and su22.

AlexS
AlexS
1 year ago
Reply to  Mr Bell

Quantity. if your frontline fighters gets reduced operational numbers due to repairs, losses you need something in place to replace it, also to do the missions you made reference too like hitting enemy drones, helicopters and the enemy Su-25 and other Russian land attack aircraft. Don’t waste flight hours and pilot fatigue with your top of the line fighters going after helicopters and such things.

Frank62
Frank62
1 year ago

The real “Peace dividend” is the Russian invasion(Mk2) of Ukraine & an agressive PRC. Short sighted folly from incompetant leadership.

Gavin Gordon
Gavin Gordon
1 year ago
Reply to  Frank62

Think we have to accept that that is what democracies tend to do i.e. as opposed to authoritarian states. Takes a lot to overcome us in the end.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago

Another factor is the reduction in the size of armed forces manpower leading to a tendency to offset that with very high quality and high capability equipment – hence a tendency to ‘gold plate’ – particularly for an army that will have lost around 100,000 regular posts since the 1970s/80s.

Also the UK’s manufacturing base has reduced over time, especially for the manufacturing of military equipment (not so much naval equipment, though). The manufacturing facilities for AFVs are seemingly limited to assembly halls, so much sub-contracting is required even of major items such as hulls.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

“not so much naval equipment, though” We came perilously close to loosing that too. T26 Mk41 VLS – USA 5″ gun – USA – although the barrels may be made in Barrow 30mm – Sweden Radar – UK Sea Ceptor – UK Electric Motors – UK Diesels – Germany(?) GTs – UK Sonar – UK T31 57mm – Sweden 40mm – Sweden IshM – Denmark Sea Ceptor – UK Diesels – Germany(?) CMS – Thales Radar – Thales Mk41 VLS – if fitted – USA The days of trying to make absolutely everything in the UK are long gone. Some… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago

Thanks SB. My comment really related to where the naval ships as a whole were built (ie in British yards with substantial and impressive facilities, by British companies) – rather than certain major items within a ship. In contrast, Ajax is made in just part of a fork lift truck factory in Wales by a small offshoot of a US company, with hulls (the major structure) coming in from a US company in Spain etc and turrets (the next most major structure) coming from a US company based in the UK elsewhere. The facility in Wales is an assembly hall… Read more »

Chris Werb
Chris Werb
1 year ago

I think the 30mms are US Mk 44 Bushmasters. I’m not aware of any Swedish 30mm system. In the cold war they operated ADEN and Oerlikon KCA on aircraft.

Supportive Bloke
Supportive Bloke
1 year ago
Reply to  Chris Werb
Monkey spanker
Monkey spanker
1 year ago

If commanders and politicians are more risk averse there’s perhaps less chance of a war starting in the first place in all but the worst of situations.
So long as all countries use that method of thinking.

Mr Bell
Mr Bell
1 year ago

I think the Russian material and troop loses are likely far higher than those outlined above.

Ian
Ian
1 year ago

I have been rather sceptical about the merits of buying very expensive platforms in ever smaller numbers, versus maintaining mass at the expense of sophistication, but the latter is pretty much what the Russians have done and it hasn’t gone well for them. To illustrate the point about defence inflation: HMS Dreadnought- the technologically-revolutionary capital ship of 1906- cost £1.8 million, which according to the Bank of England is ~£1.7 billion in today’s money. HMS Hood cost ~£400 million by similar measures. A modern T45 destroyer alone costs about £1 billion, so the shrinking of the RN is not altogether… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Ian

Ian, You rightly comment that the Russian concept of quantity over quality has not worked for them, but there are other reasons too for their high casualty rates.
In the West our forces have reduced in size dramatically and we have become very reliant on small numbers of high quality equipment. However our lack of mass may well count against us in combat against a better than average opponent with greater mass, and if engaged in high intensity conflict that lasts for many years.

Matt
Matt
1 year ago

Can somebody explain to me what this means, please:

“Reports suggest that it takes more than 41,000 hours per worker to manufacture an individual F-35 jet aircraft.”

What is “41,000 hours per worker”?

The linked article says “41,500 worker hours” for an F35-A, which is one variant and not the figure for “an individual F35”. it is also a 2017 number, which is not reported above.

I’m sorry – I’ve lost patience.

This piece is incoherent, and has no place in UKDJ as it is way below the normal standard expected.

Last edited 1 year ago by Matt
PeterS
PeterS
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt

It’s an odd phrase but clearly means man hours and is an accurate number. 41000 hours per worker would mean the poor fellow would take over 22 years to assemble one F35. A Spitfire took 13000 man-hours but that was the total not just final assembly. The F35 is the figure for final assembly by LM only. One problem any military analysis has is the influence of the two world wars. These total wars required enormous mobilisation not just of military manpower but of countries’ entire industrial capacity. In that respect they were unusual- most wars being on a far… Read more »

Matt
Matt
1 year ago
Reply to  PeterS

Cheers.

FOSTERSMAN
FOSTERSMAN
1 year ago

Which is why modular systems are becoming more and more important in this day and age. Type 31 and T26 frigates are built to be modular and have modules which can be swapped out alongside navy pods to quickly upgrade other vessels quickly and at a lower cost than a swap out module/refit so the navy is on a good path in the future for it’s modularity plan. Mine warfare is also being reborn with the unmanned systems able to be carried on all future vessels so is another good example of moduler warfare. This is exactly the right direction… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago

I just about remember the acronym BAS-RARS. Battlefield Attrition Study – Review of Ammunition Rates And Scales. It was from BAOR days, possibly in the 1980s. There was a realisation that the British Army had far too little ammunition of all natures, especially arty. Hopefully it led to an uptick in depot stock of munitions. That was then.
Time for a new BAS-RARS study, I think.

Simon
Simon
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Is that were DROPS come from as well?

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon

It does look like the study was linked to the fielding of DROPS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demountable_Rack_Offload_and_Pickup_System

Simon
Simon
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Seems a logical part of the study. 40 years later and Russia found out the hard way why it was needed

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  Simon

But is Russia running out of ‘dumb’ artillery rounds? They still seem to be trashing Ukrainian cities, sadly.

Simon
Simon
1 year ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

I was think more of that long stalled column off Russians last year and the lack of logistic

Paul.P
Paul.P
1 year ago

A few hundred Bradleys, Strykers, Marders IFVs, PT91, T72, a handful of Leopard 2 and CR2 will drive a spring offensive by Ukraine which will regain some territory but not all of what has been lost since 2014. Then it becomes a contest of industrial might between the west and a Russia which looks as though it might become a vector for Chinese industrial and cultural expansion westward. Or this an opportunity for Orthodox Russia to evangelise China?

Last edited 1 year ago by Paul.P
DRS
DRS
1 year ago

We do have way too few weapons. We need high (expensive stealthy) and low capability (cheap, buy in much bigger volume) mix in all spheres air, land and sea. Land: We should expand on how to use cheap drones to do small bomblet release and make loitering munitions. In this sense I think it make sense to have a small government owner=d company to assemble and manufacture with DSEI creating the prototypes or adopting from industry. and FPV drone with a n attached heat round still does a lot of damage and relatively cheap to manufacture (3D print). Sea: More… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
1 year ago
Reply to  DRS

My, you are keen on drones. Fair enough, but we need a lot of manned systems too in each environment.

Chris Werb
Chris Werb
1 year ago

I’m not sure when you originally wrote the article, but your Oryx figures are way off. The Russian’s IFV losses as of today are: 2226, of which destroyed: 1429, damaged: 67, abandoned: 119, captured: 611 Self-Propelled Artillery 364, of which destroyed: 237, damaged: 15, abandoned: 7, captured: 105 and Towed Artillery (187, of which destroyed: 81, damaged: 8, abandoned: 5, captured: 93)

Chris Werb
Chris Werb
1 year ago

Depending on who is purchasing them, Javelin missiles seem to cost between $80000 and $200000 a shot. With the latest lightweight CLUs recently ordered by the UK MoD the system can conduct line of sight engagements out to c. 4.500 metres. However, for roughly $1000 or as little as 1:200 that price, you can buy an FPV drone that can conduct non line of sight engagements, hover and check out a target, wave off if a nearby civilian is identified, and put an PG-7 grenade into the most vulnerable part of whatever target is selected, out to similar if not… Read more »