Employees of defence companies are being refused bank accounts by challenger banks and defence firms are struggling to find landlords willing to rent them property, a senior industry figure has told parliament.
John Howie, Chief Corporate Affairs Officer at Babcock, made the revelation during an evidence session of the Scottish Affairs Committee on Wednesday, telling MPs that the perception problem facing the defence industry had moved well beyond public attitudes and was now affecting the basic ability of companies and their workers to operate.
“Today, some people find landlords who will not rent property to defence companies,” Howie told the committee, adding that challenger banks, the smaller app-based financial institutions that have emerged as alternatives to traditional high street banks, “will not give employees of defence companies a bank account.”
Howie said the industry’s response was that there was no ethical issue with defence, describing it as “a mandate from a democratically elected Government” and therefore “not only ethical but entirely legal”, but acknowledged that when a bank refuses to give someone a bank account because of where they work, “that must rub off on them and make them a bit twitchy.”
The problem extends beyond individuals to small businesses in the defence supply chain, with Babcock’s Leonardo colleague Mark Stead telling the committee that SMEs in the sector faced the prospect of their sites being targeted or “potentially smashed up” because of their association with defence, making some companies think twice about operating in the sector at all, and adding that defence workers often felt they could not speak openly about what they did even though they were “fiercely proud of the difference that they make every day.”
Stead also described more direct examples of anti-defence sentiment affecting the industry’s operations, telling MPs that a year ago Edinburgh council removed Leonardo’s recruitment advertising from the city’s trams because the company was part of the defence industry, and that the company had experienced five or six blockade protests where police prioritised keeping the peace over enabling around 3,000 workers to access their site to support what he described as “critical operations right now.”
Howie contrasted the situation with the United States, where he said investment managers told him they had “a patriotic duty to invest in defence because the armed forces are an extension of the country”, whereas in the UK he had spoken to people who “almost look with distaste at the idea that we might be creating weapons of mass destruction.” He also told MPs that university recruitment fairs were increasingly difficult for defence companies to attend, not because universities objected but because factions within them would “sabotage” stands with posters, making staff reluctant to talk openly about their work outside the company.
Howie said the cultural gap between the UK and the US was something government and industry needed to address together, and pointed to the contrast with other countries’ attitudes toward defence as an example of how far the UK had to travel, telling the committee about a conversation with a Polish minister who said his country had a simple answer to public scepticism about defence spending: “You in the UK are worrying about whether you go to war or not. We already are.”
Easy, move away from Scotland and open in a civilised part of the country.
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may one suggest?
1. the government open up a government peoples bank for the people.
2, any business that refuses to to help or punishes those who work in the defence industry.
should be on a blacklist for any help or contracts from the British government.
3, those who refuse . housing/renting/or facilitate accommodation for military personnel.
again should be refused any help from the government , and either compulsory purchases them. or build more accommodation for people working for the defence industry and military personnel.
just my humble opinion chaps.
Do you really want Reeves in charge of a “people’s bank” ?
We could always call it the Trustee’s Savings Bank… and let Cons privatise it…
See the bank sold off and then restructure RBS and make up the bonuses of bankers while they sell the physical branches off.
If I could kkep money under the mattress I wotld .’.
IF I had any money, I would 😉
Are you suggesting that we have a law in place to ensure businesses don’t discriminate against people? Well, at least update it.
There are 2 far easier solutions to all of these scenarios with the exception of protesters (freedom of speech), and both apply in Scotland. I’d also point out that it would help ex service personnel who do face discrimination and are hindered from integration into civilian life.
1. Amend the 2010 Equality Act to include a 10th Category of “Any Lawful present or previous employment”. That takes care of shops, banks, landlords, employment or even being refused service in a pub or restaurant.
It’s one of the most powerful civil acts we have as the fines are “unlimited” and covers workplaces and services (the latter covers just about anything).
2. All Banks operating in U.K have to be licensed by PRA & FCA and it can be refused or rescinded. No licence means no guarantee of deposits, so breaking point 1 and you are out of business.
That would stop pub landlords banning certain MPs.
It’s call post office counters. The Tories sold it off
When I worked in the defence sector, the main obstacle to having a bank account and renting a home wasn’t the fact that I was in the defence sector, it was the low pay that made me an unattractive customer.
No need they can make it part of the banking licence T&Cs
Seems our country is becoming more hostile to those who serve
That’s a long way of saying Pro-Palestine “supporters” are blocking defence workers from renting property and getting a bank account. I’m sure Challenger banks are ok with the other unethical practices banks are involved in. What next, debanking?
Defence companies are struggling to rent, not workers. I know it’s long but you should try and read the article anyway.
Part about banking is still relevant.
Thank you, to be honest I misread that as well.
I am assuming this is a problem in Scotland, caused by the SNP?
Why do you assume that?
As a “defence worker” with a wide network of friends who also work across defence, and an other half in the armed forces, this is the first I’ve heard of anything like this. It must be a very localised issue
I’ve heard this raised as an issue before, but never met anyone for whom it was an issue. For example it was mentioned at DSEI last year.
Simply tell them that their UK banking license will be removed………not hard.
If I was to be really honest about it, I think I would describe that attitude as treason. So any bank or business refusing to do business with defence personnel and industries should be sanctioned – NO government contracts, NO government subsidies, etc – should work.
Agreed. But how do you protect their property with a police that is in the Islamic-Marxist alliance side be either willingly or just because don’t want trouble?
This is the embryonic formation of an Hezbollah sort of side in Britain, there is no neighbor country to attack but changing the country policy regardless of who got elected trough low level violence – and high if necessary- , threats, multiple denials of civil liberties. making whole country hostage.
The liberal society will disappear like in Lebanon.
– Sorry, not into rascist right wing conspiracy theories
Be careful with your caricatures. I know people like you is absolutely certain to be right but if ends not you are just giving an huge win to whom when your tactics like this backfire?
Look in the mirror. Sorry, not into rascist right wing conspiracy theories
If i am right. You are much worse. At best you remind me of self-blind leftists that supported the Ayatollah.
You are a very sad and bigotted person.
They are completely brain washed, you’ll never get them to see how things really are. Too much BBC and guardian propaganda unfortunately
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Traditionally banks would avoid the politics of social engineering, and virtue signalling.
The only thing a bank should be concerned about is if you are or have been involved in criminal activity,
are in debt or have been declared bankrupt.
Avoid these so called challenger banks and go with regular high street banks.
Many of these ‘challenger banks’ have been on the wrong side of the FCA for lax money transfer and handling reasons, and many rely on customer demographics with an often hostile view of UK defence interests.
Complete bullshit from a corporate shill 💩🐷🤣
Defence needs to explain itself to the country.
This goes far deeper than most people think, the banks are quite happy to treat their customers with utter contempt but that is only the start of the problem, we in the UK have allowed our political system and our civil servants to be taken over by minority groups who have an agenda and that agenda is not to build a strong UK. From top to the bottom of politics it is utterly corrupt, from local councils giving planning to the person with the biggest brown envelope to people in parliment on all side of the house having an “interest” in which civil contractor gets a government contract from Defence to NHS to DWP we see the same companies and you will find that most of our political elite own stock in those companies or are being “advised” by foriegn companies and /or people who have an interest in getting as much out of the UK’s budgets as they can either for there own financial gain or to the detriment of the UK. At the end of the day the people that we have elected do not give a dame about the British squaddie, people who live from day to day on nothing, people waiting for a life saving operation.
As the late grate Fred Dibnah said “The UK was built by men in coveralls and ruined by men in suits”.
All downstream of the Far Left attacking legal entities trying to do business, as they always do. About time the government did something.
Anti-defence company banks are a part of a wider problem:
‘The University of Cambridge has voted to divest from companies involved in producing “controversial weapons” but has stopped short of committing to a full arms divestment, after accepting the recommendations of a year-long review.’
‘The Demilitarisation Working Group of the Warwick Staff Student Solidarity Network (SSSN) has released a shocking report, “An Investment in Injustice,” which reveals the University of Warwick’s ties to companies complicit in Israel’s ongoing genocide in Palestine…“We know that the defence industry is the single largest cause of rising CO2 emissions driving climate change,” said another speaker. “How can the university claim to be fighting climate change, while investing in and creating research partnerships with this sector?”
The report is part of a broader campaign led by staff and students…Over the past year, the university’s Students Union, University and College Union (UCU), UNISON and Assembly have each passed motions urging the University of Warwick to sever ties with arms manufacturers…’
Who is behind this ‘anti war’ movement in UK Academia? Follow the money:
‘Chinese students at British universities are being offered cash rewards for political loyalty to Beijing through a state-linked mobile app which penalises people for anti-China sentiment…Students can also accumulate points for attending events linked to Chinese-state institutions or affiliated student groups. 500 points are awarded for participating in events run by the Chinese Embassy in the UK.’
In the end, people have choices to make which are often based upon experience. My army neighbour will probably be reported to his camp because he dismissed the idea of sharing the cost of a new parting fence, one which I did not erect in the first place and the deeds imply a shared responsibility. He is now labelled a poor neighbour so what would he be like as a tenant.
Boundary fences are not implied in deeds, either they are set in stone with marks on the deeds or they are not. T marks point towards the property with responsibility, and H marks indicate shared responsibility. Letters on the deeds make reference to notes in the deeds. Do your homework and find out for sure.
Either way, your disagreement with him has nothing to do with his camp. Carrying out this threat, and even just threatening to just makes you look stupid.
Partly foreign interference, partly stupid and extreme left wing idiots being exploited by hostile actors. The UK has for decades been a breeding ground for extremism. Supported by all shades of politician. We have lost sense of direction, are demographically split and need unity badly.
Too many self interest minority groups have way too much influence, and truth? The silent majority are sick of it. Mainstream politicos are aware of it, and, if we stick with our way out of date political system, they will pay a price.
Sadly, it sometimes takes a war to unify a country. I do not think that is too far off.
Simple enough, ban these banks and take away landlords rights to rent. We need defence now like never before with trump and Putin as clear enemies
The reason banks are rejecting defence workers is that their algorithms are programmed with biased heuristics; mental shortcuts in code.
The input “Employer – BAE Systems” or “Job Title – Munitions Technician.”
The algorithmic assumes these keywords are linked to “High Risk,” “Sanctions,” and “Repetitional Damage.”
The output is “Application Denied.”
The algorithm doesn’t know the person is a law-abiding citizen with a high-level security clearance. It doesn’t have the processing power or the permission to look at the context. It makes a blind assumption based on a keyword and terminates the process.
Thats why we need the ‘Compliance Passport’, often referred to in policy circles as the Defence Financial Identity, it’s a Gov-led initiative designed to stop banks from making malicious assumptions about defence workers.
Instead of each bank doing its own, often flawed automated check, the gov provides a verified data token.
Defence employees already undergo rigorous National Security Vetting (SC or DV clearance). The Passport effectively says to the bank … the UK Gov has already checked this person’s background, finances, and loyalty more thoroughly than any bank ever could, you are legally required to accept this as ‘Level 1’ compliance.
One reason banks reject people is the fear of huge fines** if they get it wrong. The Passport shifts the compliance burden. If the Gov vouches for the individual, the bank is shielded from being accused of poor due diligence.
There is talk of making it a Universal Service Obligation, this would mean that if a customer holds a Compliance Passport, a bank cannot refuse them a basic account based on their industry alone.
The most fascinating part of this is the logical failure of the banks, by “de-risking,” and throwing out defence workers, they actually create more risk for the country. If UK defence workers are shut out of UK banks, they become vulnerable to foreign financial offers or grey market banking, which is a massive counter intelligence nightmare. The banks assume that defence equals high risk, but defence workers are statistically some of the most stable, vetted, and law-abiding citizens in the country.
**
Banks are simply terrified of the Financial Conduct Authority in the UK and the Department of Justice in the US. Under anti-money laundering and ‘Know Your Customer’ regulations. Fines are not just slaps on the wrist, they are existential threats. In the last decade, global banks have paid over $50 billion in fines related to anti-money laundering, sanctions, and ‘conduct’ failings.
The Standard Chartered or HSBC effect, these are high-profile cases where banks were fined billions for handling ‘tainted’ money, and have created a culture of paranoia. In some jurisdictions, senior bank executives can now be held personally liable or face prison time for systemic compliance failures. This makes “saying no” the safest career move for a bank employee.
I’m reading multiple books about the Soviet Union and Russian Federation: eg Russians Among Us and From Russia With Blood .
I can say, hand on heart, that far-left social justice warriors across the West have done far more damage to defence than Russia’s online propaganda teams could have dreamed of.
No-one in their right mind wants war, but no-one in their right mind would leave their country defenceless. We have thousands of years of human history to learn from, historic events are happening to this day, but all European governments seem to do is turn away, citing costs or calling us racists or whatever. What has actually been put into place, that’s actually physically there and ready to use, that represents the changing threat landscape and isn’t purely designed to fight the Cold War?
We’re in a situation where we are blaming OURSELVES for the world’s woes. The British Empire broke up decades ago, the world is still a cesspit of war and hatred generations after we withdrew from it, but yeah we’re somehow the problem.
When did “IDF contracting” and “defense” become the same thing. No one is denying MoD workers bank accounts. But those firms working with the IDF? Well they’re potentially committing war crimes and banking those people would make the bank liable under sanctions regimes in the future. So when someone tells you they can’t get a bank account because they work in defense, what they’re actually saying is that they work for an IDF contractor
I think we should do more to help the IDF defend Israelis from genocide and bring the Fascist pigs of Gaza to justice.
Arab/Muslim attacks on Israel are the only genocide happening outside your antisemitic imagination.
This is actually such an insane comment it borders on parody. The border it shares is with absolute insanity because there are people who genuinely still think like this after all that has happened
Why do you assume that?
As long as it is DEFENCE and not supplying terrorist states like Israel that are committing genocide… They only have themselves to blame then.
The workers union could take on a bank that’s discriminating against its members?
In so far as the industry is concerned with the equipment and systems necessary for the defence of the UK, there’s probably no issue for most people in the UK. More widely, I suspect there’s not much disquiet about UK manufacturers supplying democratic counties who are threatened by powerful countries making illegitimate claims to their territories, such as Ukraine. However, when equipment, systems and services are supplied to countries which are not democracies, to support an apartheid regime in their persecution of minorities, for example, describing the sector as a “defence” industry sounds like Newspeak. Where wider UK opinion stands at odds with a position adopted by the UK government, especially where that Government has sought to stifle such descent, it can hardly come as a surprise that problems such as those outlined in this piece arise.