In mid-October, HMS Queen Elizabeth was in Gothenburg when a drone entered the protected area around the warship and was eliminated.
The visit was part of defence cooperation centred around the Joint Expeditionary Forces (JEF) deployment conducted last year, of which Sweden has been a member since 2017.
The shoot-down was confirmed by Carl-Johan Edström, head of the Swedish Armed Forces’ operations management, in a local media report.
Translated from Swedish, he said:
“A situation arose which we handled quite efficiently and quickly. From discovery until we had handled it was within seconds. There are different ways you can shoot it down. You can use energy weapons to take them down, you can disrupt them. We have not commented on exactly how we have dealt with this particular threat. I don’t want to go into exactly what we used here.
“There is nothing to indicate that there was a foreign power or anything like that. We’re still kind of looking at this. We cannot go deeper into exactly what was behind this. It is both a police matter and a military continuing investigation.”
During the naval visit, several joint exercises between Swedish naval and air combat forces and their UK equivalents were conducted off the Swedish west coast and in the Baltic Sea. For example, the HMS Kent was involved in the Swedish Navy’s autumn exercise.
EMALS, with a complement of Hawkeyes and maybe stop gap Sea Gripen or ex USN FA18s until the FA-XX are available would look a lot better then a deck full of mostly USMC aircraft.
Keep the F35b but as part of force expansion.
Build replacements for HMS Ocean, two well-deck fitted Commando Carriers.
We need expansion, we need our forces to be properly funded, across the board 25% pay rise would be a good start.
SeaCeptor and Sea RAM are also needed for both carriers.
The current drone threat makes that a no brainer.
Actually, prompts the general question re security at all NATO bases/ports. Time for GBAD, maritime measures such as submarine nets, sensor networks, enhanced perimeter patrols, personnel/vehicle denial fencing, etc. Probably preferable to be proactive, rather than reactive.
Navy should return to Portland for the carriers PDQ if you ask me.
Sorry, not familiar w/ Portland as a HNMB/port. Presume that it is a previous RN facility, perhaps from the Cold War era, or even earlier? Always remember reading about the naval base Scapa Flow, from the WW II era. Apparently relatively remote location that would be relatively simple to monitor for intruders? 🤔
HMNB…🙄
FA-18E/F coming to the end of it’s production run. I am not aware that the RN is involved in the development of FA-XX.
The issue with the Sea Gripen for naval operations, is a single underpowered jet engine.
Never stopped us before, or the USN, or the French eg: Sea Harrier, Etendard, A 7, Sea Hawk Sea Venom. The Gripen is half a Super Hornet engine wise its cheap and easy to operate design to be maintained by conscripts will little training.
The idea is a stop gap until the force expansion kicks in. It will take years but at least we have FA18 qualified aircrew.
The real problem is we do not have years. Taiwan’s election is today.
The latest production run of FA18s per aircraft is almost the same price as an F35. The USN isn’t happy about that little nugget of info. Take 1 x carrier out of action for 2 years for a massive refit…in drydocks that are planned to be used for other builds and refits screwing up the Ship Building plan. Commando Carriers… Why? Justify the tasking and use of them. Where will they be built? All the yards are maxed out for the next decade doing T31, T26 and RFA replacements…lets not even bother covering ASTUTE and Dreadnaught Do you know how… Read more »
Hi GB, hopefully CAMM/CAMM-ER/MR might get POD/containerised so (10’/20’/40′) can go on carriers, Albions, Argus, Bays, Points even Rivers if needed. The Israeli’s have done it with Iron Dome. Actually would like to see Land CAMM in a Iron Dome interceptor type launcher. Reckon it could be a goer for GBAD.. Lol 😁
hell yes, if not permanent placement, then do a 20′ navy pod with CAMM, one starboard bow, and the other starboard stern, there is space there for a container either side that you could move about elsewhere as needed
Masterful understatement characterizing current Boeing-USN contractual impasse re latest proposed acquisition of F18s. Very significant proposed price increase–does not appear to most observers to be a rational negotiating strategy by Boeing. 🤔
Sea RAM is based on Phalanx. Its a standalone bit of kit that is working already shoreside and fitted to several Arleigh Burkes and LPDs. It is different from the 32 shot RAM launcher that uses the SPG radar. The emals fit could be done-if they are free to do it- in the US by Newport News (they were not even asked for a quote to fit them in the first place and their figure for the Ford class is well below the BS price invented by the MoD 10 years ago). Harland and Wolf have just cut steel for… Read more »
None of that will happen.
Sadly probably not.
Taiwan’s election is today. If the DPP win the the CCP have made very clear they will consider any attempt at UDI as an act of war.
A war they have been preparing for.
We are not ready for that war.
Which means our young men and women will be sent into harms way quite soon with not enough of the right kit.
If you HAVE to. The F-18A/C with the center barrel replacement program and APG-79v4 upgrade that the USMC did will give you 90% of a super hornet at 15% of the cost.
The Canadians even have the CF-18A retrofitted to carry the super hornets larger 480 gallon drop tanks.
But will it get you 90% of an F-35?
The reason the carriers have F35 is that there is much less to go wrong (oh hello, Mr Ford) and it allows much more operation of helicopters.
No point changing it now, we have, if not loads, but at least two squadrons of F35
Sea RAM agree, it’s a cheap point defence missile system which when combined with phalanx does provide decent protection against a saturation drone, USV, speedboat attack.
As a low cost carrier/ flagship retrofit I think it’s an easy win.
I think 2 x 40mm Bofors (non deck penetrating) and 2x CAMM modules where the 30mm guns were supposed to go would be great. 40mm with 3p gives more range than phalanx which would be for anything that passed escort screen, camm, 40mm. Also doing this give you the option to go with reduced escort in say the situation we face now in Yemen when you are not concerned so much for sub warfare. Can’t seem to attach pics any more to illustrate arcs/ranges/response times.
Agree a 25 percent payrise , or 5k minimum payrise jump places lower pay scales much closer to national salaries, and I would say despite the increase in cost is without a doubt easily the most cost efficient way to improve armed forces accross the board . Recruitment massively improved, retention improved , good well trained individuals staying on . Easily the most efficient and guaranteed to not go over budget and guaranteed to have an asset instead of paying billions to see no asset . Its counter intuitive for govt to do this so cannot see it happening unfortunately
There are so many reasons why the UK could not develop and maintain a CATOBAR air wing….the advantages of the present option are so side ranging for a smaller mass navy ( the RN is exquisite but small in mass).
why would you ever contemplate changing a 5th generation transformative capability to a far more expensive and difficult to maintain last generation capability…it would be like in the 1950s suggesting we change from carriers to battleships.
I disagree one of the fundamental reason is that two properly equipped carrier battle groups in the RN were and in fact remain an existential threat to the existence of the RAF’s fighter force. Look what happened with CVA01 and Eagle and Ark Royal. And then the irony what happened to their Phantoms and Buccaneers. CATOBAR gives full cross deck with the USN and French. The UK has been here so many times before and yet continues to allow mandarins to make key decisions that end up costing the taxpayer money and servicemen their lives. Thanks to such people the… Read more »
The reality of CATOBAR is its limits around deck qualification. It’s very very hard to maintain a carrier qualified air wing and profoundly expensive..you simply cannot simply created a CATOBAR air wing when you want it, you cannot expanded it etc. This is the reason way the U.S. carriers are always full and have to undertake constant daily air ops even in peacetime…it’s a massive drain on airframe hours, pilots and money. If we had CATOBAR carriers whatever squadrons we assigned would essentially be chained to those carriers all the time forced every day to make launches and sorties. You… Read more »
My argument for a method of rapid force expansion is based on a number of facts: We have 2 carriers, one in, one out. One on duty deployed the other in refit and training. The idea behind Sea Gripen and EMALS future proofs that capability by providing flexibility and cross deck operations ability far in excess of a purely vstol deck and it does it very economically. ‘Call me Dave” only offered the RN one CATOBAR carrier. He had started by trying to sell them both and when he found out he couldn’t because of the support contracts he decided… Read more »
whatever else you cannot get around the increased manpower and training needs of a CATOBAR carrier…it’s simply not possible to achieve and maintain.. the reality is the sortie rate of a Queen Elizabeth is very good we have the ability to put a good airwing on it now. Fifth generation fighters simply destroy 4th generation fighters…unless the 4th generation fighters are backstopped by their own 5th generation fighters.. if we needed to this year we could put 20-24 F35Bs onto an Elizabeth next year we could put 30..that is probably just about the single most powerful strike wing of any… Read more »
The F35b is going to be even more amazing when we get the Block IVs. I’d love to see us get all the ones we are meant to. My idea for the Sea Gripen and emals is that we need drones & cross decking with allies. Hawkeye Ds are great force multipliers and if the poo hits the fan, (as it may now as the DPP won the election today) we need to have an economical force multiplier. I do not see the USMC allowing production slots going to foreign nations if the wheels come off. We need an alternative… Read more »
We are withdrawing two more frigates and mothballing our Loads. Would be amazed if T32 isn’t cancelled after the general election.
Expanding the fleet won’t happen unless it’s smaller efficient vessels. Commando ships a definite no-no.
As for EMALS that ship has sailed, MoD (rightly) didn’t want to bet the farm on tech that was initially troublesome. F/A18 is ancient tech and Sea Grippen as viable as Sea Typhoon.
Our best hope is a third tranche of F35Bs to allow four squadrons to be stood up.
As mentioned it is all rather moot Sea Gripen was designed in the UK for the Brazilian Navy before the ex-Foch was taken out of service. I understand that the project was mature and ready for build. The idea is a stop gap.that could provide force multiplier as economically as possible. ‘Sea’ Gripen E/F can carry anything in our current inventory and uses the same engine as FA-18e/f& g’s They will be around until the FAXX replaces them. Gripen are also very cheap to operate compared to a 35b. So it is a sound idea. Crucially EMALS provides full drone… Read more »
I am not sure why you are trying to turn QE into a US carrier with 4th generation fighters. Rather then all this stuff we need more F35Bs, MV-22 for AEW and UAV tankers. You do not need Searam if you have the more capable Sea Ceptor. I agree it should be fitted to the carriers. Also we need to ditch Phalanx and install 4 x 40 mm mounts. That would do the trick. We do not need a Ford class we just need more F35s, better AEW, some tankers. Also better self-defence for our carriers. It is not rocket… Read more »
I disagree SeaRam works on the Phalanx mount and operates as layered additional defence with the SeaCeptor. The 40mm and 30mm being developed by the Germans and Italians are promising and there are new laser systems that look up to fit for shipborne mounts. The more the merrier, swam drone and missile attacks are the threat. As happened the other day. We also need to bring back 675 or something similar. As I said the idea behind the Sea Gripen is that it is a ready to buy economical and easy to run platform for emals that is ready to… Read more »
Must also add Osprey vibrates like crazy, worse than a Merlin, so until the weights on the nacelles are sorted (which they may have been with the new MV-22c) the Crowsnest fit would be on hold. It would be a great AEW platform, range and general endurance are all much better than a Merlin. It would be great with the 35 as can carry replacement engines, which is why the USN are placing their Greyhound CODs with them. Something else we need a lot more of too. Merlin. The UK still have the production rigs need to get them started… Read more »
There are many types of drones, from toys to full on offensive military ones. The small DJI types have very limited range and endurance but if HMS QE were in port or just offshore, It might just have been a keen Drone enthusiast making Videos…. As no details are given, It’ll probably remain a mystery.
Agree with that assumption of a keen Drone enthusiast but like that Drone which disrupted Gatwick Airport over the Christmas period the other year it goes too show that these little machines can cause a lot of problems when used in No fly zones (Restrictive Airspace ) its catching the operator and prosecuting that’s the difficult part
Most drones have a Camera and a Storage Card, When you Launch and recover, there is a good chance it will be recording…. if they are then anyone would be able to retrieve these images from a downed Drone if of coarse, it could be found.
I’m not sure whether the Drone involved with the Gatwick incident and its controller had either camera or card as no one was ever caught or prosecuted but the inconvenience caused ruined people’s Christmas getaways and shut down flights in and out of England’s 2nd busiest airport ,those kind of people have scant regard for laws governing flight safety . Pity that they didn’t post footage of their antics online, the Breadcrumbs would have lead Police to their Door
Can’t see why anyone would buy or fly a Drone without a Camera personally so maybe this Gatport Airwick incident was deliberate….. not sure how it could have been guided without a Camera though, once they are out of site, it would be virtually impossible to guide it.
Unfortunately will probably never know who was involved the Drone in question was used at night and Control tower could see its lights flashing but nothing was done on the first night too locate who was operating it as a result of this incident a raft of measures were taken even trialing birds of Prey (Hawks) too bring them down
Mad world 🙄
Interestingly Sweden has now followed up Poland’s assumption that we have around 2 years to prepare for war.
Both the governmental minister in charge of the reserve forces and their chief of defence staff have said so.
Assumption is Ukraine war will end this year or by mid 2025 with a Russian victory due to a Trump administration and NATO losing US support. Europe alone won’t provide enough hardware to turn the tide of battle.
Once Russia has rearmed then war is very likely. Baltic states, Poland heck even Hungary and Romania are at risk.
Meanwhile in the UK our government are doing the opposite of getting ready for the inevitable conflict we all know is coming.
Despite the hoo ha about quality of russian forces. I would wager that once the ukraine war ends how you suggest , russian army will be the most battle ready in the world probably . Their weakness is navy and crucially airforce
Still. We have 2 key allies who express concern and seemingly want to get their countries ready for a conflict in around 2+ years. Who knows whether the USA will be part of NATO anymore or whether in fact the UK will need to join an EU wife defence pact as part of a free trade and security deal? If Trump comes back into power all bets are off. The world will become a much more dangerous place with the Western military alliance fractured by a Trump presidency. The European nations including the UK are definitely rich enough to easily… Read more »
Even if a Trumpian US leaves NATO, then NATO will continue even with such a huge loss of capability.
If Russia invades a Baltic state then this (depleted) NATO will come to their aid.
How have you heard that the Poles consider we have 2 yrs to prep for General War?
A Trump administration is far from a foregone conclusion.
Said it before, will say it again. Ban drones for civilian use. It will only be a matter of time before a terrorist attack occurs using one.
On youtube the fpv drone club hobbyists show the worrying tech freely available for civilian use
Define “drone” I own a quadcopter mini drone and an rc model helicopter myself. The helicopter is just large enough that I need a licence, which involves an online test on drone laws and registering the drone. The mini quadcopter fits in my hand and has a flight time of around 15mins. In theory, both could be used to carry explosives a la Ukraine. The issue raised is that drones have a multitude of uses besides recreation. Map companies use larger ones to collect data, conservationists use them to find animals, engineers use them to survey buildings. Just getting rid… Read more »
ridiculous idea. Teroorists also use knives, lets ban them, they used vans and trucks, ban them. In fact lets ban anything that could hurt people.
Ban people? They hurt a lot of people
I just have a Potensic Atom SE….. I seriously doubt it could carry any life threatening ordinance but it’s a great way to see places from another angle….. This talk of banning all Drones is a bit Ill thought out and most probably based upon no actual knowledge or personal experience of the subject.
unfortunately we live in a semi free nation. where do you want to draw the line? flying kids toys? model aircraft? how do you differentiate? or just ban everything? Fortunately we dont live in North Korea. Yet
It triggered a few eh? I want to see the stable door shut firmly. The drone freaks can make Airfix models and hang them from the ceiling. No life is worth losing so some overgrown wannabee pilot can have “fun”. And “freedom”, semi or not, went a long time ago. Remember coppers fining people for sitting on a park bench?
Ridiculous comments and Childish intent.
Ridiculous comments and what I would expect from a teenager. 1 man shoots innocents so knee jerk the gov bans pistols from 1million legal shooters that statistically commit no crimes and are totally monitored. Now more gun crimes than ever as guess what criminals and terrorists don’t follow laws. Ban drones all you want. Business go bust and liberties are infringed like N Korea. Then guess what terrorists don’t care what u ban they will buy from Amazon France and get delivered. Benjamin Franklin said “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither… Read more »
Exactly…. Personally, I’m a Gun Collector, currently owning @140 different Guns of all descriptions (the Martin henry from Zulu era is the latest) …. I also like cooking and my top drawer in the kitchen has about 40 really lethal Knives….. I also Ride and own some Stupid fast Motorbikes and Cars…. (member of the 200 mph club) My Drone is just a fun thing…… Quite why it should be banned is beyond me.
I’ve got a brilliant collection of Nihonto ( Japanese swords) some of them 700 years old all works of art, each one of profound piece of art and engineering that are part of human history…the fact is you can also cut through two people with some of them ( grossly ones was officially test cutted for three) if you know what your doing probably means they should be banned….
Why ban anything. Swords don’t kill cars don’t kill knives don’t kill people.
People kill people.
If a man drinks a bottle of vodka gets in the car and kills a child, how do you respond? Do you ban alchahol? Do you ban cars? Because apparently according to him one life is worth more than our freedoms?
No course not you punish the guilty man and educate the public. You don’t take all freedoms to stop a death. Sorry it’s true
Indeed you ban the behaviour..( make it against the law) that’s the main focus. And then remove the causes of the the behaviour ( educate why drinking a bottle of vodka is stupid)…only if something is profoundly dangerous and pointless for anything other than mass murder do you ban…even a U.S. citizen cannot own a browning .50 machine gun for home defence.
How did banning pistols in the 1990’s work out? Highest increase in gun crime ever and since the ban violent crimes have skyrocketed. Banning swords a year or two ago how’s that worked out? No change in violent drug related crime. Because blanket knee jerk bans never work and never will
Swords have not been banned Andy..take it from a collector of swords. A very specific set of weapons were banned. Basically curved blades longer than 50cm that are not hand forged or made before 1954…that means you can order yourself as many curved blades as you want as long as a sword smith made them or they are antique… sword canes are also banned unless they are 100 years old or more ( hint all sword canes are more than 100 years old). there are a few Hollywood type dross weapons banned ( zombie knives..pretend katana’s etc as well as… Read more »
I know exactly what’s banned having my own collection. Just like pistols just like assisted opening knives just like lever release rifles just like semi auto weapons and so on and so on. The government covers up usually their failure in policing or a report of a psycho with weapons then when a disaster happens they say to the idiot masses “don’t worry we will ban something and keep u safe” then legal citizens are hurt, criminals pay no attention, how many crimes are prevented? None. Perfect example “let’s .50 calibre rifles. Never been stolen, no criminal has one, they… Read more »
What are you actually talking about, have you read anything I typed..did I say ban anything…other than browning .5 machine guns. Get a grip man and actually read my posts.
I’ve got a vast collection of Harsh Words if the Police try taking them from Me ,they’ll get a mouthful of my chosen wit.
I always go armed with all my legal documentation including copies of the specific laws when I’m transporting one of my collection or selling it…you never know when some Bobby on the beat will get a bit twitchy when you point out you have 70cm or razor sharp katana in your boot, when you get pulled over. The problem is once it’s impounded it takes for ever to get it back and they have not idea how you should treat a 700 old masterpiece of swordsmanship that is both highly polished and easy to damage ( it costs around £500… Read more »
Because snowflake socialists want to ban any individuality for the good of the whole. They have lost site of true libertarianism (English 18c not red neck American). We are free people but the are obsessed with removing all risk from life. Sorry you can’t do it with out living in an Orwellian dictatorship like North Korea
Responsible people using Drones are well aware of areas that are strictly a no fly zone .when someone purchases a Drone do they now have too register it ?
OK, I’m a Drone owner/user, Mine is a small one with a deliberate weight limit that enables me to fly it without a licence….. it has hardly any capacity to carry anything remotely dangerous. All Drones above this weight are required to be Licenced…… I think you need to research this a bit more before trying to Ban us all completely. Even then, a Ban will not work, just look at Gun and Knife crimes. Meanwhile i’ll be continuing to use my Toy for video and pictures of the spectacular places I visit…… It’s a great thing to be able… Read more »
But then so is a mobile phone..a car a van or lorry, fertiliser, Kitchen knife, petrol from a petrol pump, gas cylinder…there are so many ways and means of causing mass carnage…it’s even pretty easy to get yourself chlorine gas from bleach…..you would have to ban modern life.
It’s all Swings and Roundabouts sorry Swings ,Roundabouts have been banned can’t have our children learning about bumps and bruises in the real world oh by the way Johnathan if you mix Harpi limescale remover with bleach happened by accident fumes nearly killed the Wife
I actually managed to gas myself a few weeks back… there was a huge pile of mold in my garage ( and I mean huge) I dumped a load of bleach on it to kill it..just like your harpi limescale remover mold can contain a lot of ammonia..Ammonia + bleach = chlorine gas…I nearly passed out and needed an eye irrigation + 2 weeks of treatment for my eyes..stupidity I knew this and did it anyway..because well I’m an idiot ( it’s one of the things they teach in basic management of poisons and chemical injuries).
Need to quickly give the Rivers a decent gun system for self defence. Probably the 40mm.