It has been revealed that Britain’s new E-7 Wedgetail airborne early warning aircraft will fly this year and enter service next year.
James Cartlidge, Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, recently stated:
“The Wedgetail Full Business Case is planned for submission in March 2024, and an approval is expected from the Ministry of Defence in late 2024. The Wedgetail aircraft will commence flying for early stages of testing in 2024, with delivery into service with the RAF in autumn 2025.”
What is the aircraft for?
The E-7 Wedgetail is an advanced airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft designed to provide comprehensive situational awareness and command and control capabilities.
Equipped with a powerful Multi-Role Electronically Scanned Array (MESA) radar system, the aircraft is capable of detecting, identifying, and tracking potential threats both in the air and on the ground over long distances.
It plays a crucial role in supporting military operations by coordinating and directing assets, such as fighter jets and ground forces, while also serving as an information hub for decision-makers in rapidly evolving situations.
The UK will operate three of these aircraft.
Welcome but can we really manage with three? When originally announced five seemed to be tight considering Ukraine and the Gulf. If one has maintenance issues which are surely going to arise at some point where does that leave us.
Three days a week to save on costs? Weekdays only operations? Airforce on the cheap!
Fitted for but without radar systems? I’m joking…I think.😉
Fitted for but without RADAR ….. aircraft ….. and crew! 😆
It’s slightly worse than that… two spare radars gathering dust somewhere and not fitted to anything, but maybe on a 🛒… LOL 😁
👍🙁
As always my friend.
Australia initially purchased 4 Wedgetail aircraft and 6 radars. When an additional 2 airframes were purchased I recall a politician bragging about how cheap it was to expand the fleet by 50% – completely ignoring the fact that the radars had already been paid for. And also ignoring the fact that the original requirement was for 7 Wedgetails.
Too right.
Three effectively gives us a fleet of one. We need more.
Good news, but of a struggle with only 3 but that is what the Airforce top brass must have agreed to, along binning 40 low spec get fighters years before there air frame hours run out.
Too busy worrying about beards and diversity, good luck with deploying 3 if one is broken etc, may be needs a re think.
SDSR 2025 I suppose, it all depends on Labours Defence priorities.
‘ If’ they order any, big if….
There’s going to be a delay in ordering any more of a few years, the personnel involved in their UK manufacture will by then have dispersed.
What option does that leave us, probably ordering a few from the US production line I guess…..
Better to get 5 now as cost and delay will only go up. We do this all the time, delay reduce and it ends up costing more with gaps in what the Armed forces have and can do.
We’re still buying five complete radar systems as we can’t cut the order that means we’re paying much more than for three E-7’s but only getting three. This is the sort of twisted logic that is dictated by the treasury. I can only hope that when some sort of sense returns we put the remaining two systems already paid for and stored into airframes. Perhaps now the USAF has selected the E-7 as an E-3 replacement the cost might fall and we can buy off the shelf in US rather than add several hundred million to have them fitted out… Read more »
‘Austerity will be good for us’ – Lord Cameron of Shanghai.
Labour being worse, will anyone notice?
The 2010 SDSR by Cameron and Osborne was the killer blow the treasury got in against the MoD. Promise of jam tomorrow for cuts today. Well look at the state of our armed forces now. Putting the deterrent from a separate treasury budget into the same MoD pot as conventional defence means they compete against each other and both suffer as a result. We’ve had two Trident failures in a row and we’ve got a conventional armed forces that’s pathetically small and barely works. The Tories were supposed to be the party that put our national security first yet it’s… Read more »
Thanks Graham. We – those of us who care – are in the unhappy position of knowing what needs to be quickly done and utterly unable to influence events. The run down of our manufacturing base from the 80s until now has also been a disaster we have to reverse. None of this is impossible, but fake politicians, trouser pocket lining elites and wokery have to be got rid of and soon. I’m not too fussy how either.
The heart has been ripe out sadly 🙄
Sadly all true…it would not be so profoundly worrying if Putin and Xi were only laughing at us..they are not laughing they are measuring us for our cofins.
Being a bit flippant, those two characters don’t strike me as having any sense of humour at all!
And when the cut was done in 2010 , the so called Defence Secretary Dr Liam fox at the time said by 2015 we start building them up again what Bull shit 💩 not that any of us believe him at the time .🙄
Austerity is the Tory wet dream to destroy the state services & responsabilities that actually make life worth living. The cornerstone of our civilisation has been crippled. Our future existence & security is daily being jeopardised by rich kids who think that wealth must only be funneled into the hands of the few.
We now have the tiniest armed forces that are not fit even for the most benign peacetime, when the world is about as dangerous since WW2.
Cameron & Osbourne were responsable for piloting austerity while sheilding the wealthy.
Or, sell the two surplus radars back to the US?
US E7 costs have spiralled upwards because they want all the bells and whistles from day one. They are struggling to integrate everything into the airframe. Reports are indicating they are wishing they had gone for a working and proven system configuration (Aussie and UK spec) and then added in the extras later.
They are trying to make their E7s equivalent to their E3s in all respects for interoperability. It make sense so that they can task them the same and can play the same role as their latest E3s. Their E3s have several comms systems and other packages which they want on the E7 – the radar and mission system is the same as the RAF version. Its always difficult to intergrate existing systems into different but existing designs without wholesale changes. They will be reluctant to change much of the interfaces to the existing mission system as it could invalidate the… Read more »
Labour won’t put any money into Defence, they’ll be looking for savings – opex spend, less exercises, capex spend, less spend on new systems. In their defence, the Cons spaffing Bns on a 2p NI cut will really put a spanner in the works; and I’d suggest that act is a wilful attack on our Defence. I’d really like NI to be hypothecated and displayed in 3 bands NHS Dentistry Pensions Then we would know what we were paying for and we wished monies be spent on. Tax, would be spent on all the rest but the sheer cost of… Read more »
Cost of NHS is £3000 per person per year…that is profoundly cheap Germans and Norway ect all spend around £6000..the US around £14,000…even the Italians spend more than us per person on healthcare.
Their health systems work! I doubt they have 7.5 million ill citizens waiting years to be seen. I myself had a set of electronics, wires, rods and a big battery fitted inside my body, being only the third person in the world to have it fitted in 2016. The battery lifespan was five years max. It stopped working in 2021 during COVID. I have been told the earliest the NHS neurosurgeon can change the battery is 2026. It’s wait, or pay £60,000, the estimated private operation cost.
This week was. ” Well, err, it sort of depends like, you know what I mean, because the Tories, err, and they waste money in the MOD don’t they, errr…”
I think that’s were they are this week Andy….
A while ago the Labour plan was to focus on a home defense force and cut the expeditionary capability. This was under the banner “No more illegal wars “. Although it lacked details I think we can assume it means scrapping the aircraft carriers, reducing the RAF transport fleet, and a cut to logistics. RAF tankers, Royal Fleet Auxiliary, the Royal Engineers and the Army’s enviable logistics capability. This would save money and as the lost capability is near impossible to reproduce it ought to ensure a continuous lower defense budget. It will also be a tragedy for many around… Read more »
Agreed 👍
Imagine making up all that in one go. You should write a fiction book, it probably has as much value.
The Corbynite policies of “down with NATO/Defence/anything relating to the military” are gone along with him. You’re not going to see the scrappage of two aircraft carriers before they actually reach their end of life.
Stop lying.
Labour’s defence priority is to spend the money on anything but defence. The only “policy” they’ve come with so far is the UK moving towards a more Euro oreientated defence organisation. So look our for the carriers and any spending on amphibious forces. God knows this lot have been dreadful but it’s going to get worse.
I could easily see Labour ‘seeding’ our E7’s to the NATO fleet and spinning it look like a bonus in SDSR 2025.
“Look at this substantial AEWAC fleet we now have at our disposal”….
There won’t be any additional money and wriggling out of GCAP will be difficult, so suggesting pooled NATO fleets (A400 perhaps), might be one way they consider.
I would be surprised if both carriers survive 5 years of Labour, get rid of one and trim everything accordingly….
.
John, really?
To be honest George John may have a fair point sadly 🙄
George off piste slightly but can I suggest you listen to Radio 4 on BBC Sounds “This week in Westminster” from yesterday, about 20 minutes in. Lord Nicholas MacPherson was being interviewed about Tax and the U.K. economy, he was quite upbeat about the economy. He was asked about more Defence spending due to the present situation, bear in mind he was the Permanent Secretary to the Treasury 2005 – 2016. I quote :- ”I’m a former Treasury Official and I have never wanted to give Money to the Ministry of Defence”. End of discussion, with no challenge from the… Read more »
It might not be a bad idea given we can only afford 3 aircraft and further purchases, not matter how logical, are unafffordable. Better to have a significant role in a much larger operation than just have a flight of 3 aircraft which will be assigned to NATO in any event. I doubt that a Labour Government will have much interest in UK forces doing much East of Suez.(as did the Wilson Government in the 1960’s) We can all argue for increased defence spending from a military standpoint but neither Labour or the Conservatives are willing to find the extra… Read more »
Disagree. No budget will be cut. Labour have said they will keep the budget and want to increase it.
I’ve read what they have said and things like moving senior chief posts from 2 year posts to 4 years seems like they have good ideas.
Labour left office with 2.5% of gdp for defence.
Read what they are saying. It doesn’t take much to be better than the current bunch.
And no I’ve not decided who I will vote for yet
If the opinion polls turn out to be correct then we’re going to see a Tory wipe-out in November and a Labour government with a 200+ seat majority, that means Keir Starmer is safe as Labour leader. So what does that mean? I’d say first he won’t have to rely on the far left for support so he can ignore them and second he’ll not want to alienate middle Britain. It’s clear that a Trump 2 presidency will be different from Trump 1 as he can’t seek a third term so he’ll be free to do what he really wants… Read more »
Sadly, you might be right.
God help us.
Maybe the 1st thing he should do is ask if any of the present lot are prepared to explain the latest updated PPST23 ?
I just read it and one thing jumped out at me was the cost of the AWACS programme.
Budget £2,156 million
Current forecast to completion £1,943 million
Saving £212 million
That’s for just 3 Aircraft and they can’t even get the sums right as its £213 million.
Oh and that’s approximately the cost of 2 low Hours B737 Max.
Exactly buying the additional two E-7 would only be £213 million more so dividing £1,943 by three is £647 million each but £2,156 divided by five is £431 million each. we’re literally paying more for each of the three as we’re saving on not having bought five. Absolutely bonkers!
Considering labour ordered the carriers in the first place…. Cameron and co only kept them.on because they were too costly to cancel.
True 😞
Ummm…er…could someone please explain the logic of this probable course of action to an outsider? Especially as there presumably was a “Business Case” Review prior to original contract award. Surely someone w/in HMG/MoD/RAF is able to realize the value of an uninterrupted assembly process. Not least to preserve the option to become the European hub for assembly of follow-on NATO order(s), as well as probable future ME and SA acquisitions. Just wonderin’ … 🤔😳
It’s the logic of in year costs..basically if you don’t spend the money in year..your great even if it means it would cost you twice as much next year…..
Well, it would be impossible to argue against that unassailable logic…😉🙄
Don’t be silly. This is the British government. We don’t do communist 5 year plans😂😂😂😂
Silly me. Thought strategic planning timeframe was longer than current year. Forty lashes w/ cat-o’-nine tails b’fore the mast for the affront ? 🤔😳😁
Same in US at present CAPEX cuts in 2024 Defence Requirments across the board -F35, -1 SSN, – Grey Wolf Helicopters etc etc. Underlying reason is deficit means budget is capped and lots of unfunded OPEX Ukraine, Gaza, Haiti it all has to come from the same budget.
Yes, agree. Congress will revise proposed CAPEX, uncertain to what degree.
To do that they need to either raise Tax or the Deficit, try getting that through, in an election year.
March 22nd is the target date for passage of Defense Appropriations bill. Stand by for decisions.
Well basically ‘3’ is set in stone, this won’t be looked at again until SDSR2025, any potential order wouldn’t work it’s way through the system for at least year, by the then the RAF will have received all three, specialist personnel will have moved on from the Birmingham facility and the E7 line wound up. Kick-starting the line for two airframes will be hellishly expensive, unless other customers are found?? If not, then we will have to tag on two E7 orders to the US production line. My guess is they simply won’t bother and the RAF will have to… Read more »
Unfortunately, agree completely. Helluva way to run a railroad, let alone an Air Force w/ a proud tradition.
My guess is they will actually find £200 million for 2 low hours airframes and get it done at Brum. Otherwise they may have to explain how they managed to save £213 million on a £2,156 million budget and only deliver 3 planes !
The info is all buried in MOD data if you know where to look !
Sure it’s called cut and be more European and Bow down to them 😕
As others have also said, including in the parliament (or some committee?) that there must be still be some surplus or old stuff that’s still got some life and usefulness that can be further donated to Ukraine? It’s further good that the 🇬🇧 can do and 🇺🇦 needs it right now! I think i read Belgium is dating three MCM vessels too.
Five is the mínimum.
Could be a chop there
3 can do jobs and is better than none. Problem comes when they are needed for constant overwatch or 2 places at one time.
Cost increases and no spare cash caused the issues. The price went above the amount set aside so something had to give.
There should be a stupidly review that has access to spare money. If a project is cut due to stupidity they top it up. If a project is a waste or pointless due to changes they can scale it back.
As we seem to have the equipment why not just buy and install for the full five. I must admit that even five does not seem enough for a constant patrol. I have often wondered if the A380 would have been a better aircraft for RAF needs. The top deck for Wedgetail, lower deck UAV control or anti submarine warfare, rear lower deck air to air refueling and some crew berths for spare crew. As we do need to remember that if we found ourselves in a hot war the AEW aircraft would have fighter escort. Which in turn needs… Read more »
Just think how much that would cost Ron.
You do know non have been built for years, don’t you ?
I dont think that they would be the best aircraft but there are many many of them for sale second hand
Not just not built, they have already started to be scrapped.
5 very expensive Radars purchased, only 3 Aircraft purchased for conversion is the definition sheer stupidity.
Need warning against drone attacks ? Best bet is AWACS it’s not rocket Science.
And right now Boeing 737 can be bought at bargain prices (just ask Ryan Air), it’s a buyers market due to Boeing financial issues.
If we can’t add any more combat mass at present but want to strengthen our contribution to NATO just find some money and finish the damn job.
Saturday Rant Over 😫
Hugs!
👍👍
Hi M8. Quick question any truth in the rumours about the recent safety and QC issues Boeing are suffering may be down to someone removing certification requirements.
The someone being former President Trump who issued some decrees about it ! Or is political BS due to election year.
Sorry, one rumor which had not surfaced previously. Extremely doubtful, but will check available open sources. Personally a “never Trump” RINO, although actually agreed w/ a few policies. (Could never vote for Trump after his critique of Sen. John McCain for becoming a PoW, and denigrating our war dead in Arlington.)
Predict that this will be an extremely vicious campaign, w/ absurd assertions by rabid supporters on all sides. 😱
Doesn’t mean they are quick or cheap to reactivate, just look at the work that was needed to bring a B52 back to operational status recently.
So let’s think about this for a 2nd every set of this Radar is designed to fit a specially adapted version of Being 737 NG, it’s not been fitted to anything else and it’s a very large bit of kit. Rather than waiting in line for Boeing to produce brand spanking ones off the line, we decided to buy the kit and fit it into “low air miles” pre used aircraft and set up a small production facility at Birmingham Airport. So you want to buy an old piece of junk, that is pre owned, too small and then do… Read more »
Is the same 737NG for all the E7 types? AUS, Turkish, Korean?
My understanding is that E7 is based off a specific version of 737NG. Boeing Business Jet 737 NG version I believe (737-700ER, but with the centre section, landing gear & wings of the 737-800 (P8 is a 737-800)) . The vast majority of 737 NG out there (the airliner versions), are not this spec. Secondhand, you would have to buy both a 737-700 & a 737-800, chop them up & then build a BBJ & then convert it to an E7, unless you can find a low hours BBJ of the right model that someone wants to sell.
Mate, I am mildly optimistic we will see two more airframes acquired.😉 From my Air Force ops days, I can confidently state three are inadequate for sustained ops. Five is the number
With all the issues Boeing has with 737 production I can only image what state these planes were delivered in.
That’s the 737 Max, the 737 NG variant these models are based on hasn’t any issues.
I hope you are right. The 737NG have been built by a company that has difficulty keeping door plugs attached to the plane.
It is the overall quality assurance of the company practices that are worrying. I know the planes will be stripped down to their bare bones so they will be able to spot the issues.
All 3 aircraft brought have already had a life they’re just low cycles and hours.
The only major issue the NGs have had is Wing Forks fatigue on very high cycle aircraft. Again easily checked on a full strip.
Three aircraft is ridicules, the RAF had seven E3-C’s originally, to allow for maintenance, Aircraft going tech, OCU, training etc seven or eight should be the total number for operational aircraft
You would have to go back a very very long way when we operated 7 E3’s. In fact we never operated 7 because 1 was always in long term maintenance.
Sorry but there is more to it than just numbers of Aircraft. The E3 airframes were all over 30 years old and second hand when we got them and were essentially a design from the 1950’s. As such they were high maintenance compared to modern Airliners, same goes for Electronics it’s all more reliable now. Which means you don’t need 7 to have the same availability, 5 would be perfectly adequate. We also have to remember that we didn’t operate in isolation but as part of a NATO led system of coverage / deployment alongside NATO and USAF AWACS. And… Read more »
The RAF E3s were all new off the last 707 production line along with the 3 French aircraft and were built to essentially the same spec as a package deal.
The Aircraft will require regular maintenance routines and thar, together with the global nature of conflicts what chance of maintaining a credible warning system, 3 aircraft, ridiculous!
“The Wedgetail Full Business Case is planned for submission in March 2024, and an approval is expected from the Ministry of Defence in late 2024. …”
What’s the hurry?
I see everyone on here agrees that three RAF AWAC airframes represents a dangerously inadequate force level – just one example of many structural defence problems we face I think. On the other hand the record shows that our neighbours France operate just four (older) E-3 aircraft. However, metropolitan France is not nearly as exposed to hostile air attack as the UK Air Defence Region currently is. Therefore, I don’t think that any comparison with France here is very useful. What is a valid conclusion to reach methinks is to state that our armed forces are collectively quite unprepared to… Read more »
So we’re all good
Then. One flying one in reserve in case one goes US. And then one in maintenance .
Awesome . Makes you proud.
I didn’t know that this aircraft was also capable of tracking ground based threats, was E3 Sentry capable of this? Interestingly approximately 600 UK military personnel are currently deployed on a exercise in the US, Project Convergence – Capstone 4, which is all about testing the latest air & land based Radars, electric, AI integrated systems designed to give commanders real time data/ situational awareness and how to use it in the most effective way, it’s a brave new world of the digitalised battlefield!!
As far as I understand we are still committed to buying 5 radars which are tge most expensive bit of the platforms. So not to by 5 is just insane.
It looks like the Tory party are all getting set to kick out another Priminister and put Penny Mourdant in office….I wonder if she will buy 5 ?
Yeah funny isn’t it .. I assume having followed their own leadership ‘rules’ when appointing Truss that after they decided that process had led to the incorrect candidant being elected by the stupid party members they then ignored their rules and arbitarily crowned Sunak in political coup- as was intended all along. This of course means that they can now crown any king (or queen) they like with scant regard to the Party Rules without any requirement for an accompanying party vote on that rule change. Very dangerous precedent has been set – If I were a Tory Party member… Read more »
Oh Jesus the grass is always greener on the other side party. Worst bunch of ignorant selfish self serving millionaires ever.
They may actually be the worst bunch of politicians we have ever had the misfortune to be led by….
I can’t see it happening myself for a couple of reasons. Firstly I think PM (ooooer she has the initials for the job), has enough sense to see a Poison Chalice when she sees one. It’s far better to stay put in a nice safe seat, gain popularity with grass roots and wait to see what happens post GE. They will need a new leader and she has to be favourite. Secondly I have a funny feeling, that with 65 Tory MPs standing down at the GE it would be suicide to even think about it. Simple reason is Labour… Read more »
I think it makes more sense to order 2 more E-7s than whatever the equivalent cost is in MH-47s. Get the helos later. ISR is much more important now than ever.
3 each so 6 in total if purchased brand new but the 737NG is no longer produced so probably a lot less and we have got those Chinooks at a very good price.
As ever, we have top end kit, but in such small numbers that it becomes improbable we could last more than a few days of high end warfare. As everyone who has an interest in this subject, 5 previously contracted are the bare minimum!
Exactly. Just have to make sure they avoid conflict🤦🏼♂️
3 airframes aren’t enough, Min 6 airframes to allow for maintenance, unexpected breakdowns, crew training, multiple detachments
Too late we only have 5 radars on order and would be behind RAN, NATO and USAF for more 🤔 5 is fine, just remember we coordinated the E3 with NATO and France.
Look at how the Russian A-50 is being decimated. Maybe an unmanned system or other alternative is maybe preferable?
Russian A-50 is being decimated by their own side who cannot use even simple IFF.
NATO aircraft have Link 16 and Mode 5 IFF that (should) stop Blue on Blue. Mode 5 is a military only spec’d system that all of NATO uses across all services.
We will buy the additional Wedgetails but I suspect after cancelling 2 x aircraft it will be more expensive to reorder the 2 x aircraft – typical British procurement, how to make a program even more expensive!
No problem the Airframes are available 2nd hand (no longer produced).
Second hand airframes can be a nightmare as you don’t know what you have until you start to open up the panels which are not routinely opened and inspect the documentation which comes with the airframe. Maintenance regimes, standards and supporting documentation are not always the same across the world. Airliners are built for individual airlines and so that over time there isn’t really a standard model. Manufactures publish lists of approved updates on a regular basis and Aviation Authorities (eg the CAA or FAA)indicate on these lists which updates are mandatory or optional for airlines to operate in their… Read more »
Need more than 3!!!!!!
Defense spending needs to be as far removed from the Treasury as possible. Set the GDP percentage spend on defense, ideally at 3%. Let the experts in our military fulfil the UK’s military need to dictate what is purchased/manpower levels based on several red-lined requirements, for example; Maintaining access to the UK from sea and air.Having an army capable of sustained expeditionary mission.A navy carrier strike group to successfully carry out tasks similar to the Falklands. Just remove the Treasury bean counters from decision-making, because if/when the stuff hits the fan, they are the most likely to be able to… Read more »
Ridiculous low number of aircraft. The order needs to go back upto 5 immediately, especially as the UK has purchased the hardware for 5, eg radar sets.
3 aircraft offers a highly intermittent capability and no resilience or attritional reserve. Another Tory cut to our once great armed forces.
There is a lot of other equipment, not including the radar which makes up an E7 – such as Mission displays (10) associated computers, Radios, Radio management panels, Radio antennas, self protection system , dislays/controls and changes to engines with added generators, Racking, seats and safety equipent. military cockpit including instruments and displays and all new wiring looms throughout the aircraft (major unique item). Air to Refuelling receptical.I have probably missed a few items but as you can see its not a trivial list some of which is unique to the E7 and will be therefore be v expensive. .
This is going to be fascinating how they will manage with 3 platforms
Just 3 Wedgetails to be lost or unservicable before the UK has no AWACS.
Reckless, irresponsable, insane.
A whole THREE ?