Specially-modified F-35B Lightning stealth fighters have joined HMS Prince of Wales to begin pushing the boundaries of carrier aviation, say the Royal Navy.
According to a news release, test pilots from the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division (NAWCAD) Air Test and Evaluation Squadron Two Three (VX-23), Naval Air Station Patuxent River (NAS Pax River), Maryland, joined the carrier off the Eastern Seaboard of the US for the trials, known as Developmental Test phase 3 (DT-3).
“HMS Prince of Wales will chase bad weather and heavy seas while the jets themselves will take-off and land with various weapons and fuel loads, experiment returning from ‘missions’ still carrying missiles/bombs – rather than ditching them in the ocean – and practise landing by rolling to a stop on the flight deck rather than touching down vertically.
The Portsmouth-based aircraft carrier sailed from Norfolk Naval Station, the world’s largest naval base, having embarked the equipment and personnel – a 200-strong test team from the Pax River F-35 Integrated Test Force (ITF) specifically for the trials.”
Watching from the bridge, Captain Richard Hewitt, HMS Prince of Wales’ Commanding Officer, said:
“This is why we are here. Over the next few weeks we will work together with the F-35 programme to increase the capability of the world’s most advanced fifth-generation stealth fighter alongside the UK’s fifth-generation aircraft carrier.
During this phase of our deployment we will see the jet develop advanced landing and take-off techniques, allowing it to recover heavier, turn around faster, and launch with more weapons.”
This is good news and represents another significant step forward, assuming the results are successful. Nice to see HMS Prince of Wales back active again after her recent travails.
Mind you I do feel for the crew having to chase the bad weather…
Cheers CR
I’d be surprised if this hadn’t been throughly tested on the ground already.
Obvs the pitch’n’roll’n’hesvd of the deck adds another whole dimension.
Given this was slated for the trip when POW’s shaft uncoupled itself and more work up will have been done then I’d be pretty amazed if it didn’t work. I don’t think anyone is going to spend £££££ sending a QEC over the pond for a few pics?
Worse, it was due for the trip when POW had flooding before leaving! We’re running TWO years late on DT-2 and -3!
Hi SB,
It has been tested on HMS Queen Elizabeth I vaguely remember it being part of the first series of Britain’s Biggest Warship, but it was in good conditions. So yeh this is just the next step of a process.
Cheers CR
Hi ChariotRider, I thought you might be interested in this. A Royal Navy spokesperson confirmed to Breaking Defense in a statement that the Mojave trial is planned to go ahead in November as part of the service “exploring innovation for future carrier ops.” For General Atomics, the new Mojave test could open the way to a MQ-9B STOL program that has already “caught the imagination” of a variety of European navies, including France, Italy and Spain, according to Walters. He explained that the new configuration is based on detaching the wings from the medium altitude long endurance (MALE) UAV and… Read more »
Aviation trials are hard work but rewarding. Chasing the weather isn’t always particularly pleasant, but limits have to found for safe flight deck operations. And hundreds of test points are evaluated. VSTOL carrier’s and aircraft can push the boundaries in more severe weather conditions.
F35’s on two carriers Robert. Only a few but a definite step forward. 😃
Those 8 jets on QE can provide a massive amount of capability. It really cannot be undestimated what these jets are capable of. 👍
Depends what the scenario is. Against a contested air space 8 won’t do much. Assume half are capable of being in the air at any one time (optimistic for anything sustained) then probably 2 are going to need to be used for carrier defensive operations, leaving just 2 to do anything offensive. Combine that with them being limited to which weapons they can carry as most uk ones are not integrated. In a real conflict a lot more than 8 would be needed to do anything other than defensive activities.
You couldn’t be more wrong Steve.
In what way? Carrier operations and how to sustain sortie rates over months of operations, is pretty tested process.
Hi Steve. For long deployments, yes, more than 8 jets are required for sustainable operations. But 8 jets can comfortably achieve 16 sorties during the day shift. In the Harrier days, we typically launched 2 waves with 4 jets in the morning and another 2 waves in the afternoon. The same could be done overnight if required. The sortie rate could also increase to 6 jets per launch with 3 waves per morning and afternoon. With the F35’s incredibly broad range of capabilities, even with just the current 3 weapons that are integrated. 8 jets can achieve a lot. And… Read more »
“Combine that with them being limited to which weapons they can carry as most uk ones are not integrated.”
Correct and it won’t be until the early 2030s due to the ongoing delays with TR3 and Block 4.
10 Jan 2023
“In fact, delays and technical problems with the TR-3 account for a $330 million increase in the F-35’s development costs, according to a report from the Government Accountability Office. Development of Block 4 is now three years late and will continue until 2029, the GAO said in April 2022.
Typhoons PE4 upgrade isn’t available until 2028 and will take up a sizable chunk of the £2.35bn budget available for PE4 and ECRS mk2 that only covers 40 jets. Makes blk 4 look a bit of a bargin.
What weapons are to be integrated with Block 4. I know that it is for metior but what else and how many of these weapons do we have?
And what are the numbers looking like on Camm and Brimstone?
Hi Asker of questions, see the links below for more information. Some of the dates for integration will have slipped due to further delays with TR3 and Block 4, now looking like 2030 ish 👇
https://www.key.aero/article/how-new-weapons-are-making-f-35-even-more-lethal
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/what-weapons-can-british-f-35-jets-carry/
Thanks 👍
No Brimstone or did I just miss it that would surely be a useful (cheap) option for land cooperation?
F-35B integration was dropped some time ago in favour of SPEAR Capability 3, it also requires Block 4. Brimstone is currently integrated into Typhoon, with the Protector RPAS also planned. The cost of the software update continues to increase as do the maintenance costs to operate the F-35. There is still no final date as to when it will finally be ready, however, the current projection is 2029 all being well. Then we will have to see where we are in the line for the integration of Spear 3 and Meteor etc and when they will meet FOC. “Further, DOD… Read more »
Aye guaranteed this will be a success and we will once again develop and move carrier aviation forward for the rest of the world like we have always done with new landing techniques.
This should save the USMC a few quid in the future rather than wasting perfectly good munitions into Davy Jones locker .I’m sure ole senile slow Joe will be so thankful we will get a federal trade deal (he’s great with numbers)👍🏻
🏴🇬🇧
It’s not something the USMC will be able to do on their wasps and American class…they are just not as big flight deck wise and don’t have the space to do it without messing up al their flight ops..they are crowded ships compared to an Elizabeth..it’s one of the advantages of have a 70,000 ton carrier over 40,000 ton amphibious vessel…all those people who said we should have just gone for a 30-40,000 ton carrier.
i assumed (incorrectly I might add) the America class would have been designed with future innovation in mind ,interesting so the USMC will have to continue to dump munitions much like those wide boys from back in skool who used to throw loose change away after their visit to the local sweetie parlour ………
🏴🇬🇧
Haven’t all of these being trialled before on HMQNLZ?
The most interesting test planned is that of Mohave which could significantly enhance the capabilities of the carriers and be operational quite quickly.
I don’t think Big Lizzie is set up for SRVL yet, due to happen in her first refit.
How would Big Lizzie need to be ‘set up’. Surely no equipment is required to be inserted at refit. Doesn’t the plane just touch down in a slightly different way? With a roll forward on touchdown, rather than landing directly down.
Test pilots made a couple of srvl landings after what appeared several aborted approaches (maybe that was planned) but QE didn’t have the new landing aids the PofW does
Yes I thought SVRL had been tried, but as you say, POW has additional aids not yet fitted to QNLZ.
Back in 2018 they did DT-1 and a little of DT-2 testing. PoW was meant to complete DT-2 & -3 as she is fitted with the Bedford array, but her travails starting in the second half of 2021 pushed the testing all way back to now. There is much more performance to be wrung out of the F-35B at low speeds and they should be demonstrating it hopefully in the coming days. Watch the PoW X/twitter feed for pics and videos!
It’s going to be fun job pushing the F35 to the limit. How bad weather can it operate in, bringing back heavy loads, how heavy can a rolling stop manage, unequal loads and so on.
I posted this recently, no doubt the hangers offer the required protection. 👍🇬🇧 However, past contracting documents have outlined how the stealthy composite material skin on all F-35 variants “does not provide inherent passive lightning protection,” unlike metal-clad aircraft. The potential risks posed by lightning strikes exist on the ground, as well as in the air, and the F-35As seen in the picture from Nellis are notably seen parked next to mobile lightning rods for their protection. “Since the F-35 as a composite type aircraft does not provide inherent passive lightning protection, the lightning rods being requested are needed for… Read more »
The lightning issue is understood and was fixed but then further faults were discovered with the redesigned OBRIGGS system that fills the fuel tanks with nitrogen gas. This affects the A model mostly as the B model has a different designed system.
Strikes can cause damage to the skins as seen with the marine core aircraft damaged while flying near Japan.
Stealth is expensive and still has issues to be worked out. Still it’s a game changer along with the other bits of the F35.
All aircraft avoid lightning. And i mean all aircraft. If a Harrier GR9 was struck by lightning, it would be grounded pending engineering inspections. As are all aircraft. And using an earthing point on the ramp is common practice for most fast jets. So another pointless exercise to try and berate the F35.
But the PoW team need to get to grips with this stuff too.
Interesting that the test pilots seem to be USMC. Might the Marine Corps take on the short rolling landing on the gators? There should be enough space, right?
It’s claimed that you need a wide deck to do SRVL, which isn’t the case on the gator carriers… But I imagine they’ll want to test SRVL once the RN demonstrates just how feasible this is and all the advantages it brings, especially in hot climates like the Persian Gulf.
SRVL is nothing new. Harriers often landed that way.
But not on the Invincible class as I understand, only on land. The deck just wasn’t wide enough. There’s a video on Youtube of the VAAC Harrier doing the first SRVL landing (more of a hop, really) on FMS Charles de Gaulle back in 2007. SRVL in the Harrier was considered the hardest manoeuver for landing when tried in the 60s.
Not sure why you need a particularly wide deck to do a SRVL. I am sure I have seen videos of Harriers landing on Invincible class carriers doing a SRVL.
The gators are small ships with packed decks, so probably not..it’s why all those voices that Said it was a waste of time building a 70,000 to carrier..when a 40,000 ton analogue of a wasp or America would do were just plain wrong and the navy was right ( funny that).
What! The navy knows what it’s talking about better than armchair admirals. Who would of thought that 😂😂😂😂😂
It is great to see both carriers with F35 on their decks….
Is POW ‘BOMBED UP OR HASN’T IT JUST LOADED WITH THE AMMUNITIONS TET?
It probably has limited stores onboard. When she becomes the on call carrier next year, she will have a full compliment of munitions.
How much do they carry when they do have weapons on board?…12 paveway 4s and 4 ASRAAM enough for 2 aircraft to look mission ready in a picture
Enough to spoil the bad guys day.
to all my naval colleagues, is it the process for all naval aviation, catobar stovl stobar etc, to dump ordnance in order to land?
Seems a mad waste of resources if that’s the case
F18 has a fairly low landing weight so might have to dump ordnance or fuel to get below the limit. No idea how often that happens in practice.
What happens if they try to land over the limit.
It used to happen in the past. If a plane can’t land with the weight it’s carrying fuel and stores need to go.
As weapons have got more expensive it’s become less desirable to dump them.
A sea harrier trying to land with heavy load of. bombs, missiles especially in hot weather would not be possible.
Great to finally have the POW qualifying for F35 ops at last. Now we eed to boost escort numbers & sevicability so we can deploy both at a push without denuding the RN of escorts for anything else. We only have 16 escorts in service, some in long maintainance, so fewer available & years before new ships are ready.
PoW is already qualified for F-35B ops. The current testing is to expand the envelope of operations, especially testing SRVL in inclement weather and sea states, and SRVL with various loads including beast mode.
These two aircraft carriers were a complete waste of money. The maintenance costs over their lifetime are going to be astronomical. They do nothing for the actual Defense of mainland Britain.
Having a defence posture based only on defence of mainland Britain leaves us already beaten as China Russia Iran and who else move uncontested in the Grey Zone, and set the field to their advantage. You can never just be on the defence. Never. I assume you also include on your list. SSNs. LPDs All the RFA. Tanks. Most of the RAF, the ATF, SHF, most Typhoons not on QRA. All nuclear capability. Most RN frigates poodling around in the N Atlantic. In short, most of the military, as we are expeditionary in nature. We are a P5 UNSC member,… Read more »
Ummm so having two airfields that can move and hide do nothing for defence of British soil…really..get a grip.
I see defence matters are not your strong point dale!
And you are?
They are not for the defence of mainland Britain. We have RAF bases on land to provide air power over and near to the homeland.
P Dale, you use American spelling – are you American?
Love it when a plan comes together. Looking forward to SRVL on both carriers and credible numbers of F-35B …with Spear 3. Top trumps capability.
Come on now. We won’t have that kind of positivity around here😂😂😂
Make the most of it. The enthusiasm is alcohol fuelled. It will wear off soon enough. 🙂
It will be interesting to see how much more an Elizabeth can push safe fight ops in high seas over a CATBAR carrier..it should be a fair bit more.
Rolling landing will be calm seas only. No pitching deck.
Great news, the world’s most advanced 5th generation fighter operating from 5th generation aircraft carrier.
It will be fascinating to see the Mojave UAV operating.
Yes, I’m not sure whether the UK is purchasing any but they would add another capability to our carriers.
If we need that type of drone, with any luck we’ll purchase the larger, more capable MQ-9B STOL instead and Mojave will just be a stepping stone. Might as well have commonality with the Air Force. However that still won’t give us the combat mass the CSG needs. The loyal wingman is where the real effort needs to go. I hope it’ll be a UK drone.
So in other words, US airframes. 😢
Bet they cant believe their luck getting a $4bn asset for nothing.
You mean training and certifying a 4bn asset for nothing? The USA has done great charity (mostly the USMC) to get the RN back into jet flying after the 2010 SDSR put it in the trash can.
How many of our own F 35’s have been deployed with the ship?
None. The testing is being done by the rare orange wired aircraft of the VX-23 test squadron. We have one (BK-3) at Edwards AFB but it isn’t being used this time.
F35 # Vietnam # Vietnamese # real Donald trump # Donald trump # @ real Donald trump # f35 # F35A # f35B # f35C # Donald trump # real Vietnam # @ Vietnamese #