Despite earlier rumours that the class is set to be cancelled, the UK Government have insisted that “the Type 32 Frigate programme remains a key part of the future fleet”.
According to a statement dated the 26th of January from Alex Chalk, Minister of State at the Ministry of Defence, the type will remain, but changes will be made to make the vessel more affordable.
“There are currently no plans to withdraw the Type 32 Frigate Programme and it remains a key part of the future fleet for the Royal Navy. The Programme is currently in its concept phase and work continues, across a number of defence organisations, to ensure the programme is affordable.
Defence Equipment and Support (DES) have been allocated overall funding to develop various concepts on multiple projects. It is therefore difficult to delineate precise costs, but we would estimate that approximately c.£4 million of this funding has been allocated to the T32 programme.”
It appears likely that a new bespoke vessel is increasingly unaffordable, my money is on a second batch of Type 31 Frigates rather than a new design, but that’s just my personal opinion.
What did the rumours say?
It was reported that the anticipated multibillion-pound investment in the long-term future of Scotland’s shipbuilding industry, in the form of the Type 32 Frigate, may be eliminated or reduced in the upcoming defence review by Rishi Sunak.
This follows the announcement two years ago by then Prime Minister Boris Johnson of plans to construct five new Type 32 frigates with the aim of establishing Britain as the leading naval power in Europe.
However, the project has encountered difficulties and has put a significant number of employment opportunities at risk. According to the report, insiders at the Ministry of Defence say that it is unlikely that the ships will be included in the defence review this spring as Chancellor Jeremy Hunt works to reconcile the country’s finances.
Will Type 32 be scrapped?
Officially, the current line is that they’ll be a “key part of the fleet” but I don’t have a crystal ball. The recent rumours mention above add to a recent report from the National Audit Office that stated that the Royal Navy withdrew its plans for Type 32 frigates because of concerns about unaffordability, however, officially it is claimed that work on the project is continuing.
The November 2022 report of the National Audit Office on The Equipment Plan 2022-2032 stated that in July 2022 “Navy Command withdrew its plans for Type 32 frigates and MRSS [Multi-Role Support Ships] because of concerns about unaffordability. The revised costing profile is likely to be significantly higher”.
Addressing the above, John Healey, Shadow Secretary of State for Defence, asked via Parliamentary written question:
“To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, with reference to page 20 of the NAO report on the Equipment Plan 2022 to 2032, HC 907, published on 29 November, for what reason Navy Command was concerned about the affordability of the Type 32 frigate programme.”
Alex Chalk, Minister of State at the Ministry of Defence, responded:
“The Type 32 Frigate programme remains a key part of the future fleet and is currently in the concept phase. Work continues to ensure the programme is affordable in order to deliver the ships the Navy and Marines need.”
If they do go ahead, they’ll enter service in 2032. If they don’t (or if no ships at all are ordered for this timeframe), say goodbye to a chunk of the UK shipbuilding industry.
What will Type 32 do?
In November 2021, former Royal Navy First Sea Lord Tony Radakin announced that the ship had entered its concept phase. He added that it was too early to define its characteristics, but being a “Type 31 Batch 2” frigate could be an option.
The revised National Shipbuilding Strategy, released in March 2022, suggested that the Type 32 frigates were likely to be “the first of a new generation of warships with a focus on hosting and operating autonomous onboard systems“.
Earlier comments by the UK’s Minister for Defence Procurement, Jeremy Quin, also suggested that the new Type 32 frigate will be a platform for autonomous systems, adding to the Royal Navy’s capabilities for missions such as anti-submarine warfare and mine countermeasures.
All a pipe dream until there’s a commitment of funding in the long term, Royal Navy has said they don’t have the money for it so let’s hope things improve in the next few years or that Wallace can do a deal with the Treasury.
Feel like they need to seriously consider a batch 2 of 3 Type 31 and invest in increasing the lethality of the class in general. The flexibility of T26 and T31 should be able to handle the operation of unmanned systems, surely we don’t need a dedicated frigate class for it?
Hi PragmaticScot,
I agree a 3 ship Batch 2 Type 31 would see the fleet increase to 22 escorts. Exchanging 2 hulls for increased capability over time might be a good compromise, especially if the T83 start up phases can be properly funded as well.
Cheers CR
Let’s see what the first batch of the T31 are like before we mess about with the design. The MOD IS ALREADY LIKE A CIRCUS
A T31 “Fitted with rather than for” all the bells and whistles would seem to be a good starting point. Maybe spend the extra development costs on a few new Lynx helos fitted with a dipping sonar?
5 is not enough we should have 8.
When the focus on Ukraine moves on, the global reach of the Chinese navy will be the next big issue. The time plan for the Type 32 is most likely to be timely. We don’t fully understand China’s need for a global navy other than to possibly exert some pressure on the free rights of passage? Such a policy requires the Free World to construct new warships to retain the freedom to sail freely across our oceans. The UK’s new warship programme is very impressive but it must remain flexible to meet the rapidly changing technologies and it appears, the Type 32 is exactly the right ship.
Agree Russia is a threat now, but can be contained and defeated in Ukraine. China is the threat in 2030s. Why are they so intent on building a blue water fleet that can dominate out too and beyond the 1st+2nd island chains?
Building a fleet that can cause localised domination over the USN means that the risk ratio increases massively. Would the USN risk a fight over Taiwan if they forecast a 45-50% fleet loss?
America’s allies need to get match fit for an inevitable Sino-Russian showdown in the 2030s. So a couple more type 26s, 10-15 type 31/32s and more civilian hull forms capable of the drone mothership role, to act in the MCM/ safeguarding key maritime infrastructure is crucial. The treasury have to be made to understand that the choice is simple. Build a fleet and safeguard our democracy, don’t rebuild the fleet and risk our defeat.
Russian naval that won’t be contained in ukraine. If anything it might even increase as they see it is the only thing left that they can use to be a thorn in the side of the west.
Scrap heap challenge.
The major threat is from the nuclear powered vessels sinking and contaminating the surrounding. The offensive threat from the surface fleet is minimal.
OK the Russian subs are threat but they don’t have that many compared to NATO.
from what I’ve read the assessment is the Russian sub fleet is planning a bastion approach and will stay in safe waters and limit itself to undertaking long range missile strikes against NATO infrastructure. All their SSN refits have been focused on converting their SSN fleet to long range strike. even their latest couple of SSNs are warmed up Soviet projects with 50 year old design pedigrees that are probably more a peer of an early trafalgar or late swiftsure ( all good platforms mind) than a modern western SSN. Not to be taken lightly but also not up to playing the ASW game with the RN.
As you say when the smoke clears it will be time to look ahead. The psychological reaction to sitting on a British beach and watching Chinese warships in clear and regular view would be considerable. Such a scenario is very likely and in order to counter this prospect the West needs a new warship strategy as only by forming close cooperation and expanding the fleets, can we begin to dissuade the Chinese from continuing its current ambitions.
I think the RN need conventional powered SSK SUBMARINES, NOT FRIGATES
The only issue is SSKs are not very strategically Mobile, they are not a visual deterrent and they have zero impact on the air warfare element of a navel conflict. They cannot really support littoral operations etc.
Games? That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard
But it had some pretty logical conclusions.
1) it would be a bloodbath and forces on both sides would probably fight to exhaustion creating an unstable peace. Leaving both China and the US internationally weaker.
2) risk of nuclear war was real
3) the use needed greater stand off ability and hardened bases.
4) Taiwan itself needed to reduce its military spending on easily targets such as large warships and focus on land warfare mass as well as mobile defences such as mobile anti ship and AAW batteries.
To be honest I don’t believe on balance the US would go to war with China over Taiwan. They have made it clear as day they would not go to war with another nuclear power over a none NATO nation especially one which is half a world away and right next door to the enemy. I think sanctions would be the limit, maybe weapon supply. If China started empire building beyond its own official recognised boarders you may see a different story. After all we really did leave Ukraine to it and with Taiwan you have the it’s a domestic civil war get out.
I have been racking my mind as to in what way a dedicated design would be better in regard to autonomous systems than a modified T-31 but based on what is in the public domain about such systems (or alternatively my relative lack of specialist knowledge in it) and the fact such systems still seems very much in flux tbh, is not at all easy to judge. What specific elements would be desirable I wonder some form of mini well deck or a moon pool or/and much larger flight deck? What else might be relevant I wonder any thoughts? Trouble is take these elements too far and you compromise the vessels ability to operate as a traditional frigate, it starts to look increasingly like some form of North Sea support ship at that extreme. So what fundamental changes to the basic Frigate design would be desirable do we think that would make a modified batch 2 T-31 a less than ideal solution if money were available to achieve it.
I do feel that your points are valid and furthermore equally exercising the minds of MoD/RN. This is why I made reference the other day to the BAE Systems Adaptable Strike Frigate i.e. because it’s the only current concept that appears to give future ‘due diligence’ to current evolving threats – as an example, in other words.
https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/adaptable-strike-frigate
Rgs
Riding my bike this morning I began to imagine a future British warship and came up with a 2050 Type 100 concept. Manned by between 8-10 personnel and approximately the size of Type 26 the ship would operate mostly as an autonomous platform with around 30 (LBC) Land Based Crew, who would ostensively control the ship at sea and together with the majority of its weapons and support systems. The remote management would be achieved by a dedicated satellite network, which hopefully would be placed in orbit by UK rockets. I would suggest nuclear power propulsion to ensure around-the-clock operations. Accommodation for up to 50 additional naval personnel or Marines to enable land support operations. The main weapon system would be drones of varying sizes and functions primarily controlled by LBC but with a constant override option by the (SBC) Sea Based Crew. The weapon suite would be comprehensive and low maintenance essential to achieving low manning, a critical element of the Type 100 concept. The most significant improvement over current thinking would be to realistically man future ships with fewer SBCs thereby streamlining the logistical/material support and by combining a nuclear powerplant considerably reducing at-sea replenishment. The Type of ship I envision here depends on a very high level of autonomy (including robotics) and reducing the risk to human life. A daft idea? Maybe, but this concept would certainly enable substantial operational savings at the same time offering more hulls to the fleet with the drastic reduction in at-sea manpower. Oh dear, I’m back on my bike!
Oh dear, then the “Chalk” board was wiped. 🙃😵.
The Arrowhead 140 website currently lists 7 design variants of the A140, of which the T31 is a sub variant of just 1 of these 7. Several of the designs include ability to handle several craft up to 12m in a cross deck boat bay & up to 9m from a stern ramp, in addition to 2 sea boats. Babcock & co have been looking at options past the T31. BAE have also been working on their own designs for a possible T32.
You would think an A140 variant would be the cheapest & fastest to build as the accepted max efficiency for a hull build would have already been achieved on the T31. ie by ship 5, construction is as good & efficient as it gets.
Agree. If it was upto me I’d get another batch of type 31s. Uparmed and equipped with a medium gun, NSM and MK41 vls.
Order in commercial shipping hulls to act as motherships for drones, MCM and go high end multipurpose for all our surface warships.
5 was a low order especially with all the fuss made around it with the hoped for costs I think an order of7+ would have been of more sense than starting from scratch on another design altogether.
Agreed mate!
Don’t hold your breath, unless the government increase’s income tax they’ll just cancel one program to pay for another. It’s what they’ve been doing for the last 20 years😎
I have confidence in Wallace, it’s his bosses in the treasury that I fear.
In Ben we trust!
👍
I despise this government and everything about them. Ben Wallace seems to be the one real exception though
Wouldn’t be any different under the other bunch of cretins
I fear every politician allowed near the subject of this defense of the nation’s territory
Longer than that.
The navy missed a big opportunity to push the subject of the navy being too small when the Iranians took the ship in the gulf
Governments often do things they have no plans for.
There will be 32 high end Type 26 ASW ships between RN, RAN, RCN, many plying the Indian ocean and Pacific.
That seems a good starting point for shared sensors and products that could spawn new weapons.
Adding mass with simpler Type 31 or 32 seems a good idea seeing as AUKUS plus Japan are all gearing up for China.
Type 32 needs to being along those remote toys that the allies will value.
QE or POW in those waters will have Type 45 and several US, RAN and Japanese Aegis ships .
We should be thinking of that alliance as important as Nato in Europe.
A Type 32 that can sow sonar fields. Or host unmanned surveillance submarines and fire lots of FCASW if China kicks off would be useful.
Should be reconfigured redesigned as destroyers. Forget type 83,
“approximately c.£4 million of this funding has been allocated to the T32 programme.”
This is at an early, early stage of planning, nothing yet to see here or get excited about, and no serious money committed for at least another Parliament.
Plan yes, meantime get the T31 on time, on budget, and in the water.
I tend to agree, a lot of the rumour around cancellation for me overlaps talk of a rather nebulous nature as to exactly what it should be that tends toward a state of limbo and potential delay. It’s difficult to get any real idea about the true status or nature of the programme truly is so a negative vibe tends to takeover. We have had it before even in more predictable military programme requirements.
I guess the Tories don’t want to be the ones to announce, best leave that bombshell for Labour.
Yes we need to ensure we have 19 escorts first, but have that roadmap to 24 hulls or at least attempt to get back the pre 2010 numbers of 23.
Type 32 wait and see 🔭 🙏
I wouldn’t hold my breath for type 32 happening at all.
Order 4 T31 batch 2 with all the batch 1’s should have then take the batch 1’s in for upgrade and you have a class of 9 ships. Gives us 23 escorts.
The RN, as ever, needs hulls.Multi purpose hulls as quickly as possible.So more 31s equipped with MK41VLS as standard to do the real global donkey work.China churning ships out a rate of knots,maybe not as good but many more of them(see Sherman Tank).If UK wants to be a global naval power you need HULLS!!
UK must not hurry T32. If did hurry, UK ship industry will meet huge gap of order in late 2030s to early 2050s.
Hurrying T32 will “look like” saving Babcock Rosyth now, but it is just promising it’s close in 2038. Rosyth must apply for ships other than escorts to save the day. This is the only way for them to survive.
This is just kicking the can down the road and they know the next government will scrap it.
Why have three classes of frigate? Bin the T32 and build twelve T83. That would give a useful twelve destroyer and thirteen frigate mix. Oddly the very same mix that was planned for in the late 90’s.
I’m not convinced that the type 83 will happen either.it it’ll be like the type 82 Bristol class.big plans for, never happened £££ the yards are too few, Scotland almost has the monopoly on building for the navy. Another class of ships on top of the ones we’ll be WAITING forever to get.
British shipbuilding is at full capacity type 26, type 31dreadnaut, and perhaps the new type 83 destroyer type 32 can’t happen, there’s nowhere to do it.
The type 31 work dries up in the early 2030s so we need something to keep that complex warship yard open…..a second batch of type 31s would be needed to be honest…
Type 31 or 32 , it doesnt really matter so long as RN gets extra hulls . More destroyers and subs are needed too .
Might be totally wrong here but to me the above T32 sketch above looks a bit like a like a “lite” version of the T26, with a touch of the Spartan concept, more than based on the T31. Messy looking front suggesting mk41 and other vls, maybe CAMM/CAMM-ER/ASHMs. And forward a 5”/57mm, can’t tell? Time for an improved illustration once they figure the T32 out!
It’s just a rough sketch of a Frigate,nothing more ,nothing less,i wouldn’t read anything into it.
Let the type 31 be increased in length by 10 metres and incorporate a mission bay the same size as t26 linked to the hanger get 32 x Mk 41 silos use the sonars from the retiring T23s
as well as increasing the size of the fleet, the main need here is to prevent famine and feast and keep shipbuilding facilities fed work, to avoind the situation we had with Astute.
To that end, I don’t see why we’d build these at the same rate as the T31s, this 2nd batch (and that’s likely what it’ll be) should be stretched out.
A cheap good step for the RN is to extend the River B1s in service from 2028-33, this means the B2s can be kept overseas and the T31s take on new roles plus reinforce at home. After 2033 an OPV can replace these 3 B1s for home waters and keep the Glasgow yards with orders until T83.