The Royal Air Force say that members of 47 and 24 Squadron and a specialist team of Tactical Air Traffic Controllers have been conducting Natural Surface Operations, or Beach Landings, on Pembrey Beach in Wales.
According to a news release, “Tactical Air Traffic Controllers deploy ahead of any landing on unprepared surfaces such as grass, desert and, as was the case here, beaches. Defence Firefighters also deployed to provide emergency cover throughout the training serials.
After surveying the landing strip, and removing any debris, Tactical Air Traffic Controllers then checked that the surface could withstand the weight of the C130 and endure the multiple touchdowns for pilots to complete the required training.
Once the survey was complete, they then marked out the boundaries of the temporary landing zone. This included markers on each end and additional points of reference indicating the aircrafts’ touchdown zone.”
You can read more here.
Im not sure the Hercules are a capability we really want to be getting rid of. Yes the A400 is a good aircraft but it just cannot land and take off from very limited length rough strips in the way a Hercules can.
Neither am I. Our SF need the Herc and so does the rest of our military. We also still need the 10,000 enlisted soldiers who have been receiving their MoD redundancy notices this month.
The MoD should be hanging their heads in shame. But obviously, all they are worried about is saving their own incompetent ars**s
Have 10,000 people actually been given a redundancy notice or is that just press twisting what is going on?
According to a piece I read in the Telegraph recently redundancy notices have been issued – but if its not true then I stand corrected
David. The 10,000 reduction is for established posts from the 82,000 to 72,500.
The army is already way understrength so the actual number reduced will be far fewer than that.
I don’t agree with the cuts, or any cuts! But posters saying 10,000 actual soldiers are being cut is misleading.
It’s in the Telegraph David so take with a pinch of salt. The problem with recruiting is are there enough people interested. We live in a society led by trivia, so called glamour and celebs darling, meaning that those with the bigger boobs, and that’s only the blokes. We have to make sure that the people we’ve got gat the best. As for the Herky Birds it was and still is stupid to get rid of them.
My understanding was that it was all happening through natural wastage.
Short answers are no and yes.
We are not losing 10k. the requirement for the Army was 82k. We actually have around 76k in service, being reduced to 73k. I haven’t heard of any redundancies being made to get to that number. I don’t agree with any of the manning cuts before sombody has a go at me. We should have committed at least to maintaining 82k as the very minimum. 92k with superb equipment should be the aim for a nation of our global standing.🇬🇧
Ah, sorry mate, just noticed now you’ve already corrected David.
That’s ok mate. Like I said I don’t agree with any of it, but the numbers often quoted are incorrect. If Lizz Truss becomes PM ,a few in the Armed Force’s might be happier.
I’d be up for firing Capita.
The ongoing COVID-19 nonsense here in the United States exists solely and exclusively because our governments have failed to use the correct treatment. They used so-called “vaccines” when Japan has just proven, in less than ONE MONTH, that Ivermectin can wipe out the disease. IVM was awarded the Nobel prize for medicine in 2015. One of the 3 most important drugs in human history: Aspirin, Penicillin, and Ivermectin. Get your Ivermectin today while you still can………………….
I don’t know enough about Capita to be honest to make a proper judgement about how they handle it all.
Robert a nice lad in my village applied to join REME as a fitter a few years back. Perfect material, fit, bright and raring to go. It took no less than fifteen months before he entered basic. Capita are a complete waste of space and money. Back in the dark ages I walked into a recruiting office with my dad as I was only 16 ( had to sign consent etc) One month later, to the day, I started basic.
Agree, from what Farouk told us regards recruitment and the loss of recruitment offices and regimental recruitment teams.
72k with proper housing, benefits and the right equipment- any more with current budget and it becomes unaffordable I’m afraid.
Whats needed is way more reservists, I’m talking 60-70k+ and the means to deploy rapidly like these incredibly useful machines they want gone
Agree totally, we need the old militia model bringing back at county level. Loved my few years with the TA after regular service. Laughed at a lot but still allowed soldiering, was not bothered about bounty either, as long as my costs were covered.
BritMil were never at strength to make redundant that number. Pure press bollards – iirc, strength is around 72K and now we are going to have???
Spot on David.
The redundancy scheme is to clear the way for other soldiers to get promotion otherwise one of the incentives for experienced men and women to serve beyond their initial few years will be taken away.
Nope! Agreed. We’ve done this to death on here. It is barking in my view, the worst of the latest cutbacks.
I think it would be easier to take if we had a firm order in the bag for another 6 or 8 A400’s. And hopefully we will get a few more, but that’s a few years away. I’m not sure how much spare capacity we have in the transport/airlift fleet, it does seem it’s one area we are pretty flush, but the loss of Hercules must be leaving gaps I’m certain specialist area’s until the A400 fleet can pick up all requirements and capacity. We can hope a few will be extended for a few years.
Hi Robert What’s your view on possible second hand A400s? I believe the Germans are looking to flog of up to12 I imagine there must be commonality between and the RAF Luftwaffe variants.
RAF website
So as I understand it, there are 14 C-130Js going next year and 14 C4s remaining until the end of the decade. The C-130Js were supposed to go this year and had a short reprieve.
They only 14 left in service 13 C4’s and one C3 left in service as all others have been sold off already. If that is correct then that’s another 8 years of hard service ahead of them and by then will be in need of replacement anyway. Additional A400’s 8+ with tanking (more sensible for the Falklands duty) will cover capacity but there will be a need for something smaller for those small but urgent needed loads (C295’s perhaps 6 – 10). Lets see what the 50% uplift in cash lets MOD do (waste another 5 billion on another ‘Ajax’… Read more »
I dug a bit and it seems there are a few sites that agree with you, including Janes, which isn’t usually wrong. The RAF website appears to be out of date. Pity.
The Atlas is a little gold plated, while when push comes to shove the herc is able to operate in a more expendable way. The loss of a herc and crew, albiet mission dependant will be a more acceptable risk than the Atlas mate. Aside from that we do need different platforms, as you say, to undertake slightly different mission profiles. Cheers.
As you say trashing a Hercules on a short austere runaway, would be a different proposition than trashing an Atlas.
Morning Airborne – good point on the Herc. Consider the SAAF C130B, next year will be the 60th anniversary of continued service. Vey much on the last legs, really shagged out now (not me -the C130s!)
I don’t think anyone is suggesting they want rid of them but it is a matter of budgets.
Getting rid of a whole aircraft type frees a lot of resources.
Which is I cannot understand the comments below on retaining 14 and mothballing/disposing of the other 14. That won’t save that much over 8 years as all the support infrastructure will still be required.
RAF have 14 Hercules in service. 13 C130-30 longer version and 1 C130 short version.
If the RAF web site is staying otherwise it’s wrong and well out of date. No surprise really, website is awful.
I don’t use any of the 3 services websites for info. Out of date and devoid of real detail of real use.
Such a shame as updating a website isn’t hard…..
It’s an embarrassment. Leading the charge against cyber threats but we don’t know how to do a website🙈
Morning DM
Sadly its very out of date .I still have my fingers crossed there’ll be a reversal on the c130 scrapping, seriously doubt the RAF were keen on the idea to begin with. Interesting to note there were originally 24 c130j, so keeping half on strength seems a reasonable balance in my humble opinion.
On another note, I’m wondering what the effect of a possible Labour Government will have on the planned 2,5% of GDP defence pledge. Do you suspect cuts?
Labour were calling for defence increase before the government came up with an increase for 2030. Honestly who knows as it’s easy to make promises for some date in the future when you have no idea if you will be in government by then.
For the current 2 clowns trying to trample there way to number 10 I guess we will find out if they’re will do anything.
The current budget looks a lot but it covers so much other forces don’t have to do.
It does seem like a sorry state of affairs. Here’s hoping common senses will prevail.
Morning K. Cuts have been continuous since the end of the Cold War. So yes, wouldn’t surprise me. Very easy to promise the worldto get into office. The Tories pre 2010 used to scream blue murder at all the Labour cuts and did exactly the same. Labour in power? I’d be surprised. What policies do they have and experience of governance that one would vote for them? Unless you’re a Tory hater for ideological reasons. Captain hindsight will do well to overturn that majority with a front bench of unknowns with Corbyns left wing of the party lurking in the… Read more »
I’m hoping the original Corbyn jump to the left continues within Labour, which should assist shore up the Tories. Hard to tell though.
Yep -it’s sadly out of date MS. Perhaps the increase in defence to 2.5%of gdp will afford an opportunity to maintain the remainder of the C130j force?
I sometimes wonder if it would just be better buying new C130 instead of retuning to keep the old fleet going. Brake the old ones for spares, sell them or whatever.
Actually MS, I think you make a good point
Oh yes it can. It has a smaller ground pressure footprint than the Herc (14 high floatation wheels as opposed to 6) and almost twice the installed power. The A400M has already conducted the same landing exercises on Pembrey beach as the Herc is doing now.
Hi Richard, I reviewed the landing requirement in runny length for max power take offs and landings and is a lot longer for the A400M so maybe the beach is fine, but if you don’t have the length then you cannot land and take off using an A400M.
Hi folks hope all is well.
Often wonder how this form of activity is conducted in an emergency operations. Quite correct to conduct all the safety survey and test. But how would that happen in a foreign enemy hostile environment?
Experts advice please as usual on this site.
Cheers
George
I’m not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. It’s not just the safety culture that results in: Controllers then checked that the surface could withstand the weight of the C130 and endure the multiple touchdowns for pilots to complete the required training. Instead, it’s a two-way street – after the exercise, they are also able to better determine and understand how well the surface coped with the load, how off-the-mark were their calculations, how much of a safety margin is present. Further, this information could be cross-referenced with geographic satellite imagery – not only of the surface (synthetic-aperture radar),… Read more »
Parachute in a pathfinder team would be one option, check landing area is suitable, secure and offer some approach support.
Been done a few times for real in Afghanistan, and in one or two other locations, day and night (one with the airframe hitting a mine and being destroyed) however the aircraft will only land for real operations once a ground team have recced the LZ, both for suitability for landing but more importantly taking back off, and enemy forces (if any) to include approach direction and direction of take off for extraction! It can be done with no prior ground recce but that will depend on mission profile and accepted risk to achieve the mission. This method of insertion… Read more »
This post was about the sheer versatility of our C130’s not the size of the Army. Cutting the C130’s is not just a reduction in capacity it is a loss of alternatives on the Battlefield (or just behind it). Everyone is seeing the effects of HIMARS and MLRS on the Russians, just think what they could do with C130’s and a rejuvenated LIMAWS(R) For those that don’t know LIMAWS(R) was a 9 tonne, air portable, cross country vehicle with the same fire power as HIMARS. At 9 tonnes a C130 could carry 2, imagine being able to rapidly deploy a… Read more »
Surely if we didn’t introduce them we don’t need the aircraft to deploy them? However…the fact these planes are obv. very versatile and required for other operations so to get rid without a suitable replacement is quite simply mind boggling Let’s hope the capability is kept then we can revisit other shortcomings
I think you are missing my point, we ditched a flexible, deployable asset in favour of refitting a larger, heavier, less flexible legacy item (MLRS). Which is exactly what is happening with the C130, it seems that our service heads are fixated on large, slow, legacy kit and will sacrifice anything to protect them. LIMARS(R) should be resurrected ASAP as should LIMARS(R) which was spookily like the French Caesar SPG but used the M777 and was lighter. if there is one lesson to learn from the Ukrainian war it is that the Russians are slow and vulnerable to fast reaction… Read more »
There used to be a saying, “the only replacement for a Herc was another Herc”. That isn’t always true, military vehicles requiring transport have grown larger and heavier, but there certainly still appears to be roles for a Herc, I hope the RAF can continue to operate them for many years to come. Here in Australia, the RAAF was the very first export customer for the Herc, the first of 12 A models arrived here in December 1958 (one month before I was born). The RAAF has operated A, E, H and currently the C-130J-30, which are due to be… Read more »
RAAF have baby Hercules C-27J that have been very useful in all natural disasters in Australia.
Dutch will replace the C-130 with Embraer C-390 which looks like most close C-130 replacement.
Portugal already decided while ago replace their C-130 with C-390, they are part of industrial project. Hungary is another European order.
Regarding the Headline cuts to the Army, as some others have pointed out it is little more than an admission that can’t recruit or retain our existing manning figures. I think we should commit to attain and maintain the existing figure, not try to stretch the requirement. As for sacking Capita, I don’t think that it is the issue, it is more to do with a lack of focus nor understanding on what our service people require from our society Post Afghanistan. IMHO the shortfall is due to 3 factors, poor housing / family life, an appalling record of cuts… Read more »
Agree with last paragraph. However, if after 10 years the Afghans aren’t prepared to fight for themselves why should we fight for them.
I can’t say I disagree with you, but given the History of Afghanistan why did we expect anything else. It is a basket case and we should just seal it off. I lost count of how many times Britain or Russia had a go at Afghanistan,
The lack of clear thinking doesn’t exactly encourage faith in someone getting it right in the future.
Agree with a number of your comments mate, but in reagrd to the shortfall due to psychological effects of losses in Afghanstan, on the contary mate, the Army had never had such an easy recruitment tool than the footage of Herrick. Simply because young lads watched the footage and wanted to get in and have a go. Recruitment was oversubscribed and lads were finishing basic training and after a quick pre-deployment training shooting off onto tour. Retention is an issue in regard to housing etc as you say, but for singlies, with the increase of SLAM accommodation, I didnt find… Read more »
Of course I cannot prove it, however logic would suggest that capita were given the job to ‘interfere’ with, and slow down recruitment. (It took my nephew 11 months from start to finish to get into the army) Every day/week/month that goes by without recruits going on the payroll, is money saved by the bean counters. I agree with most that you have said to be fair. Another matter that makes up the long list of reasons that young men decide to leave the army, is food. I do not know about other services, but army food is shite. A… Read more »
Unfortunately decision makers, blinded by what they understood to be efficiencies failed to comprehend the nature of service provider organisations of this type. Their business model is to look to extract value ie profit out of each step in the process they take over. So, for example, an organisation such as this might insist on multiple medical examinations for a recruit based on the most trivial reasons so that the customer pays 3 times rather than the 1 time they were expecting when they signed the contract, in addition to the consequent delays in getting the potential recruit through the… Read more »
For those who don’t already know, I’ve just been shown (by my wife) a piece from the ‘Military Airshows’ site:
“A C-130 Hercules crewed by three women and flanked by two Typoon fighter jets will perform a fly-past of Wembley Stadium”… “on Sunday 31 July 2022 at 4.37pm”
Go the Lionesses!
We need to keep these aircraft, which would serve all manner of purposes. Firefighting would be a major use, as our summers are getting hotter, and large bush, scrub, forest and moorland fires are becoming more frequent the length and breadth of the UK.
A400m is running trials right now.
Let’s be honest, the only reason the RAF is losing its Hercs is financial.
One caveat, the ‘J’ fleet have been worked really hard and will require wing box replacement and avionics upgrades by 2030 anyway.
Quite frankly it will be cheaper to buy new, or another medium transport alternative.
More than likely, a top up batch of A400 will be procured, as has been suggested. About 8 additional airframes would replace the lost J capability in pure airlift terms, if not in tactical utility.
RAF should probably get C27J or similar to have a lighter capability.
Probably but won’t. Or I’ve got a crazy idea. What about a C130.
Really without knowing what the variety of loads the RAF are asked to carry and how often and how far we don’t know what they need
Why buy another aircraft when we already have the Herc in service?
SF insertions, S&D flights, light loads, there are so many occasions where a Herc is more suitable than an Atlas.
Don’t compromise capability when we already have it in service.
Well if they would need retired 2030 and need a new wingspar box ASAP new airframes could solve both those issues. The RAF have been using and abusing the current fleet for 20+ years already
So you’re aware of S&D too. I suspect its SD. Another reason I’ve often thought using Atlas is bonkers. It’s too big for that sort of work.
Would say C-295 would be better, get 6-8, 2 roled as pax, 3xpcf and rest bare cargo, buy couple of MPA kits that can be roled into cargo aircraft they even do water bomber among others
What is the advantage? C27 is a baby C-130 because it was setup as one, with a cockpit designed as a copy of C-130, same engine and a larger side and height compartment, more cargo and range.
Several problems with the Canadian buy of 295.
C-295 more versatile and is better for small loads we have C-17 & A400m for bulky loads.
https://www.key.aero/forum/modern-military-aviation/119514-eads-c295-vs-alenia-c-27j. maybe wrong but thought as Airbus wound have some similarities with A-400M
C-27J is more versatile because the cargo area side and height are larger. You probably can say the C295 is cheaper but not more versatile.
I doubt there is much related between A400 and C295
The real question here is who are the 14 aircraft being sold to? There have been statements that if needed, some could be leased back by the RAF for emergency usage. This sounds like the privatisation of part of the RAF, or put another way the sale of more state assets for a song to a group of Tory party members and supporters . Does anyone remember the sale of the harrier fleet (78 airworthy aircraft) for scrap to the U.S., now operating with the U.S. Marine corps in exchange for the promise of money off the cost of the… Read more »
Most Harriers were cut by Labour pre 2010. The squadrons had already been disbanded and the aircraft stored, bar No 1 Squadron and 20R Squadron the OCU.
Just adding balance because of your Tory mention, in case readers equate Harrier cut with Tory, which happens a lot on this site.
I hope the Hercs are retained.
Point taken, the harriers were sold off under the Blair government, but on the advice of the same civil servants. Sir Humphrey has a lot to answer for. We now boast a Ministry of defence with more civil servants than serving soldiers, sailors and airmen (airperson’s). Ministers of both persuasions (and or their spouse’s) presume that they are entitled to profit . Alas the existing safeguards don’t work and turkeys never vote for Xmas.
And England WIN!!! Against Germany at Wembley at that.
Well done the girls! ✌
I’m Scottish and a bit lost on who to support when English women play. With mens football it’s the team England are against but now the ladies have done so well I don’t know what to do.
Hopefully the Scottish government issue some guidance on the matter😂😂😂😂
Great job ladies. Fantastic win for you.
What happened in the end I missed it. I saw it at 1-1 5 mins left.
That’s a shame MS. I support the British team regardless, even though I’m English.
They scored from a scamble after a corner, toe poke from a couple of yards.
Perfect game management after where we kept the ball in their half by corner flag and didn’t give them a sniff.
Anyway, apologies to all the trolls for an OT post.
It’s great they won it. Fantastic. I’m only half joking. Even when England are playing, on the outside I support other team but somewhere deep deep inside a little little part of me routes for England.
It’s the old thing of England are the best team in U.K. so it’s part jealous, part upset, part disappointment.
I can’t think of a football tournament that you would of had to watch england get put out and Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland progress through. Then it happens repeatedly.
It’s all just a bit of fun 🤩
I’m European, born in Germany to Welsh and English parents and speak 3 foreign languages.
I have not a care in the world who wins in football, but, 6 Nations – that’s a problem! Should I be in Wales surrounded by Welsh cousins, I explain that I’m from Cumbria – we play League, so don’t care who wins.
Well I am also a Scot, but raised in England. My father, my uncles and both my Grandfathers were proud Scots and regular Army Soldiers (HLI, Cameronians and 5th Battalion Parachute Regiment. That is one side of me, because whilst they were all away it was my Mother, my Aunties and my Granny who held our family together as such they raised us men to be strong, be self sufficient, respect women and those weaker than ourselves. So I applaud the English Ladies and am so happy to point out they have exceeded their male counterparts of late. Scottish, British… Read more »
If these are indeed being retired then the RAF seems to be doing a lot to put them in the limelight and highlight their utility. I hope they don’t go but if they do surely we need to bring forward the additional A400M order and buy at least 8. All up in the air i’d say, let’s see what the new PM does.
If we stupidly are getting rid of the Hercs and sticking with just the A400s, is it not worth considering some sort of small, agile aircraft capable of delivering “something” directly into the field to supplement the A400s? What about something like a modern version of a Shorts Skyvan-STOL-type of aircraft for this role?
Granted somebody would have to come up with it and yet more funds needed…
Are lots of beaches capable of these types of operations? Obviously the main issue is beach has to be big enough.
I trying to grasp if this only possible at a few special beaches or lots of locations.
I guess size, obstacle hazards and type of sand regards load baring? That would preclude most locations, and I assume they only do this at MoD locations.
This has occurred at Pembrey Sands for years, so I assume they only use this site, and it is adjacent to the AW Range run by DIO for MoD.
There are other MoD beaches like Dona Nook and Pendine amongst several, but not aware of beach landings at those locations, just bombing and testing ( having removed the seals first.)
Must be a fun job being a path finder, parachute in to prepare the strip and spend your time getting chased by big angry seals all over the place😂😂
Yes mate, if they used Dona for that! ( They don’t)
DIO or RAF range bods do the seal stuff, Pathfinders have better things to do!
🐧
The hercs are on a list of equipment that we are all hoping will be retained as only getting cut for cost reasons and not capability.
Alongside the warriors, challey numbers, etc etc.
Someone remind me why we are getting rid of our C-130s, please…
Opportunity for the UK?
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2022/08/26/spain-doesnt-know-what-to-do-with-the-ordered-13-a400m-aircraft/