The UK Government has confirmed that £941.2 million has been spent on the maintenance and life extension of Royal Navy Type 23 frigates since October 2014, with an additional £63.7 million contractually committed for ongoing refits.
The figures were revealed in response to a parliamentary question from Ian Roome MP, with Maria Eagle, Minister of State for Defence, stating that “£941.2 million has been spent on the delivery of T23 upkeeps completed since 2014. A further £63.7 million is currently contractually committed for the delivery of T23 upkeeps.”
The Type 23 frigates were originally intended to begin being replaced by new Type 26 and Type 31 frigates by the mid-2020s. However, delays in shipbuilding schedules mean that some of the older warships must remain in service longer than planned, requiring extensive maintenance and capability updates.
Eagle explained that the spending covers “a planned series of upkeep periods in order to maintain ship condition and to introduce, where appropriate, capability updates.”
Among the major upgrades delivered during these refits are:
- New radar and electronic warfare systems
- Hull and structural repairs
- Upgrades to weapons and sensors
- Improvements to propulsion systems
These efforts aim to keep the Type 23 fleet operational until they are gradually phased out by the incoming Type 26 and Type 31 frigates over the next decade.
A Long-Term Investment
The Government also noted that some of the spending includes refits that began before 2014, making it difficult to separate exact figures for each individual ship.
While £1 billion over a decade may seem like a substantial investment in older vessels, maintaining a capable fleet is seen as vital to Royal Navy operations—particularly as the UK continues to prioritise anti-submarine warfare and global maritime security.
It’s not a viable thing this far down the line now.
The 8 we have left have been money pits for too long now, T26/31 should have been here by now, Those Government bods should all be the first in line to join up if things do go wrong.
Just don’t make any of them in charge.
David Cameron, George Osborne and Nick Clegg. Let’s not shy away from naming the culprits. Theresa May could have speeded things up and isn’t entirely blameless, but she couldn’t walk or chew gum, much less both simultaneously. Then there’s Fox, Hammond and Fallon: useless all.
Spot on and they should be held to account.
Scam scam every where but don’t worry , every one is not a cheater, very reliable and profitable site. Thousands peoples are making good earning from it. For further detail visit the link no instant money required free signup and information…….__
For more information about online businesses,
go to.…… 𝐖𝐰𝐰.𝐖𝐨𝐫𝐤𝐬𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐟𝐢𝐭𝟏.𝐨𝐧𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐞/
You miss nothing. God Bless these ships and all who sail in them. Keep safe.
Hello everyone🤍 I work as Hiring Administrator, and my office is looking for a new staff who wants to work remotely from home or at our offices. The main role is reviewing and approving apply requisitions, entering candidates information in to the company system, which can be part-time/full-time with an Weekly wage of $1850 (For full-time) .work at 6pm-11pm $350_$400 per day.The job is flexible and can be done on weekends. Great for new moms, retirees, or anyone looking for a side job or working from home.
If anyone is interested Visit here…… 𝐰𝐰𝐰.𝐏𝐚𝐲𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐡𝟏.𝐬𝐢𝐭𝐞/
Very one sided Jon. I don’t disagree but as many of us have pointed out more than once the biggest cuts to the navy were under Blair and Brown.
Just commenting on the frigates. Other leaders have other sins answer for.
“Just commenting on the frigates. Other leaders have other sins answer for.”
You are forgetting the influence of Labour/Left media-cultural establishment which dominates UK on Conservatives policies. . The RAF racist policies were under a conservative party Governement but itself a product of a neo-marxist culture. Born in Universities. Conservatives is a party which have difficulties into conserving anything.
You’re right, and I bang that drum a lot too.
But this is about the final collapse of the Frigate force mate, which is squarely at those men’s door.
Labour deleted the Type 22 Batch 2s and 3 T23s, which got the ball rolling.
Total Scorboard.
Labour 1997 – 35 Escorts. End of Labour 2010 – 23 Escorts.
Tories 2010 – 23 Escorts, down to 14.
Labour cut more.
But in Labour’s time, we had more assets.
All true. The Tory’s was the financial sin of commission, they cut the budgets, both under Major’s peace dividend and Cameron’s austerity. Labour’s was the financial sin of ommission: they didn’t restore the budget (and still haven’t and still don’t plan to, but they really like to generate operations). The inevitable capability cuts followed from lack of budget and it almost didn’t matter who cut what.
The frigate issue has been a procurement screw up par excellence. It wasn’t really even mostly about the cuts. The cheese paring attempts of the Cameron government could have been accommodated. It was about pushing the costs downstream, to the next parliament or the one after that. It was a feature of Cameron and Osborne that they stole from the future (then stole it again and gave it to the rich). Stealing from the future is a form of financial technical debt. It’s like borrowing and you have to pay for it at some point.
I get paid over $220 per hour working from home with 2 kids at home. I never thought I would be able to do it but my best friend earns over $35,000 a month….➤➤➤ CLICK ON PROFILE
I get paid over $220 per hour working from home with 2 kids at home. I never thought I would be able to do it but my best friend earns over $35,000 a month……➤➤➤ CLICK ON PROFILE
It is what governments do sadly. Not replace the things that need replacing, get rid of things that need keeping (Harrier for the carriers) and delaying everything else so that someone else has to pay for it (Generally the tax payer because these things never get cheaper). I’m not going to point a finger at any one party or group because in my book they are all equally guilty.
“in my book they are all equally guilty.”
Yup, couldn’t agree more, and it goes back for as long as I can remember and at my age that is starting to a worryingly long time now…
Cheers CR
So we could have had another type 26 for the same money if Gordon Brown & David Cameron had not dithered.
Or 2 more T45s.
Number 7 and 8 were cancelled by Labour so the T26…..could be accelerated!!!!
There wasn’t enough money in the kitty for #8 and BAE were not interested in building a singleton.
HMT allocated a fixed budget for T45 of £6Bn (ish) and at £500m per ship in 2000 money they looked pretty good.
Then we walked away from….and costs per unit exploded….
We have been given no choice but to pour more money in, almost destroy the Royal Navy or both. Seems they chose both.
I’m suspicious of how low that number is including the ARTISAN and sonar upgrades.
TBH I don’t believe it.
With all that rolled in £2Bn would be my guesstimate.
I agree it’s really fishy, when they cancelled Northumberland’s they said it would save £120 million, it just doesn’t compute. I have to wonder if they are either just counting the cost of the 8 remaining or just the upkeep periods. I’d really ask questions as to what this actually includes excludes. How many had the upgraded Marine Speys and new DG setups ?
“A further £63.7 million is currently contractually committed for the delivery of T23 upkeeps.”
That’s not the amount they expect to spend, just what they are committed to spend. If they cancel all refits (probably including Kent), that’s what it will cost. Richmond alone (like Northumberland) would probably cost more than that to get another five years service.
Ahh yes, the phrase “lies, damned lies and statistics” popularized by American Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) becomes an immediate consideration once any bureaucrat or politician is maneuvered into answering an uncomfortable question re policy and/or funding. In Western democracies, corporal and capital punishment have been discouraged as a remedy for this behavior. This is also in marked contrast to the autocracies/dictatorships, wherein the ruling class simply eliminates the sources of annoying questions. In this instance, greatly prefer Western customs and procedures. 🤔😉😁
🙂 thanks mate, that made me chuckle…
It does rather sum up the concept of freedom rather well.
Cheers CR
Yeh, I agree.
My first thought was that it wasn’t such a bad deal after all… second thought was, was the cost seriously less than £1B over 10 years..? The delays in refits, the extra work reported, not to mention pictures of hull interiors taken through the hull below the waterline..! Plus as you say all that extra smart kit that has gone on board.
I wonder if some of the cost has been discounted against GFE for T31 / T26… ARTISAN was originally due to be transferred across to the T26. Is that still the intention or will we see an up dated cost for T23 as ‘new’ sets get fitted to T26. Having said that some of the recently withdrawn T23 had ARTISAN fitted so perhaps those sets are back at BAE Systems being refurbished prior to going on the T26?
Cheers CR
What choice do we have? It is this or even less. This one case we we have to look back in anger.
More than it would have cost to replace them as planned. But this is classic UK economics. It will never change
Dither and Delay always cost you. All
Governments have been the same this century. As soon as the Cold War ended the eye of Government was removed from the Defence Strategy and Operational Budget. Sadly not the first time this has happened but hopefully the last!!
The Parker Report on shipbuilding even gave a formula for how much delays cost. Completely ignored.
Let’s hope that whatever is going into these ships to keep them going that a fair bit can then be recycled into a later ships, their, radars, sonars, comms, missile launchers etc. As suggested by other posters might help to up-spec the T31 and T45s a bit? Not sure about the later.
I’m reasonably confident that the Artisan radars, 2087 sonars and 30mm cannons will be transferred over to the incoming T26s, the radars and 30mm cannons are also used on the carriers so any extras might go into storage to be shared between the two types as needed. The 4.5″ guns will probably be used for parts for the T45s, and NSM launchers will either be transferred over or used as spares/backups.
The past decisions of politicians seem more than incompetent, I really struggle to understand how stupid some people are. IF these figures are accurate then the delay has cost us at least a T26 or several T31’s.
A better way to look at the cost is to understand how much it has cost the RN to keep the T23s operational after they reached their 18year expected service. Some of these ships have given over 30 years of service. I agree with QuentinD63, with the sensor suite and missile fittings of the T23s being fairly new possibly they could be used to improve the capabilities of the T31s e.g. hull mounted sonar, towed arrays Artisan etc. As far as I understand the 2087, 2150 sonar suite for the T26 will be new, the Artisan 300 will be new. The T23s has the Artisan 200 which has a aircraft detection range of 135km and a missile detection range of 45km compared to the 300 which is 200km and 55km. However it does appear that the Thales NS110 has a better range than the Artisan 200. So possibly the 200 could be used for the MRSS.
For Type 26 Artisan and Type 2087/2150 sonars will be carried over from the retiring Type 23’s,but Type 31 uses little if anything from T23 so not the same.
Paul it is my understanding from BAE that the T26 will use the Artisan 300 whilst the T23 has Artisan 200. Also that Thales has recieved the contract for new 2087 towed arrays and that Ultra back in 2023 recieved the order for five new 2150s on top of the order for hulls 1-3 so that is eight complete new suites of sonar. So it appears from the contracts given to BAE, Thales and Ultra that the main elecronic suites for the T26 will all be new equipment with nothing being carried over from the T23s. The supply of inboard hardware cabinetsfor the 2150 are from AISH Technologies in Dorset and Aero Stanrew in Devon. Thales due to the announcement to equip the first three ships helps secure around 70 jobs across Thales and its supply chain. On the 2150 Ultra comment “HMS Portland becomes the first ship to be fitted with Ultra’s next generation Hull Mounted Sonar Type 2150 as part of a wider refit to the Royal Navy’s frigates.
The sonar has been designed by Ultra Electronics Command & Sonar Systems and will replace the legacy Sonar Type 2050, which has been in Royal Navy service since the 1990s. The new sonar incorporates a state of the art User Interface to improve operator effectiveness and usability. The digital control of the outboard array minimises interference, reduces ships cabling, maximises reliability and extends array maintenance intervals to at least five years. The sonar will be fitted to eight of the Royal Navy Type 23 frigates. Ultra has also been awarded the contract to supply this sonar to the first three Royal Navy Type 26 frigates currently under construction.” Then as I said in 2023 Ultra recieved the order for a further five new sets of the 2150.
So the Artisan 200 is or will be available to use, as will eight sets of the 2150 and eight sets of the 2087 CAPTAS 4. By buying a further three sets of the 2150 we could give all of the T31s and T45s a hull mounted sonar, and we could give the T31s a tail. Yes for the T31s it would be in 10 years time but they will only be five years old at that time. Again yes the T31 will not be as good as the T26 in the ASW field but the Danes don’t seem to have a problem with their Iver Huitfeldt class with their ASW capability.
There is no provision for HMS or tail on the T31 hull, I think we can forget about it
Who knows what adjustments were made in the MoD Babcock standoff / renegotiations….nothing was ever announced but things changed as budgets and timelines changed.
Hopefully we will know in a few short months when #1 is rolled out.
ARTISAN 200 and 300 are related.
I’d understood that the A300 units were remanufactured A200’s.
But I could be totally wrong or have misunderstood.
The question is does MRSS have BAE CMS.
If the answer is yes then ARTISAN could be used. If no then it would be cheaper on three units to use whatever radar, which provides utility, is native to the CMS.
ARTISAN was standard across the fighting fleet for a while on T23 and the Albions. They all have BAE CMS.
We send £7 million a day on hotels for the boat illegals. This is nothing I’m comparison.
With the fleet in such a sorry state shouldnt production of the new frigates be ramped up ? The need for them is now desparate , I,m sure Bae and Babcock could build faster if asked
This is happening – plenty of articles on this site to explain how.
We will keep repeating the same mistakes if we don’t have any capability for institutional learning. A Defence policy aimed at keeping short-sighted, utopian, Treasury Officials happy delivers neither adequate defence or long-term cost savings.
All good policy is grounded in reality. If we ignore reality because we want to spend our Defence budget on other “fluffy bunny” things in the third world then you shouldn’t be surprised when reality comes along and starts biting off your legs.
To which I would argue that if you base you defence policy on the requirements of a Strategic Defence review but don’t fund your armed forces sufficiently to meet the requirements of that Defence review then you are either a fool or a scoundrel. Ladies and Gentlemen may I introduce you to the Cameron government.
The state of today’s Royal Navy is a direct result of “clever” people in the treasury and the Conservative Party doing obviously dumb things. Reality would seem to suggest that reducing the number of Frigates to 13 which causes them to work harder and wear out quicker whilst postponing their replacements into the next decade is only a good idea if your performance pay is being funded by Beijing or Moscow.
It is is self evident that even after the capability cuts of the Cameron Strategic Defence Review a budget of 2% of GDP was far too small to sustain even the reduced requirements set in their policy. Cameron and his band of clowns should have been forced to address their maladministration sooner and there should have been consequences for them of pursing a policy of deliberate neglect.
The world is far more dangerous today than 10 years ago. Europe can’t afford any additional “end of history” clowns like Cameron or Merkel. We’re going to need to find ways of improving the quality of our political class being put into leadership roles or we’re going to have to discover some rapid, effective way of burning knowledge into them when they take power. Maybe the tale of the Type 23 could act as some sort of institutional morality tale?
Should build type 42s
Huh? We have a modern second-tier frigate already and it would be fairly easy to make it AAW. Put a second more powerful radar on it (ideally a Tacticos-ready radar, like the SM-410) and some extra VLS. Move to quad packed CAMM (if that isn’t already), finally add the NSMs that everyone thinks they will anyway. (It would be cheaper to replace the NS100 with an NS200, but moving to the flat panels that the Poles are already using increases capability and without significantly increasing risk.)
Now I’ll let someone go on about hull-mounted sonars again.
Do you really mean Type 42’s ?.