The number of sightings of American nuclear submarines visiting Scotland this year has doubled over the same period last year.
We reported previously that while visits themselves are common, the frequency of visits is not common. Neither is it common for visits to be publicised by the U.S. Navy or Royal Navy unlike the visit of the USS Rhode Island, a Trident-armed nuclear submarine, that arrived (and departed) earlier this year.
In figures reported here, it is claimed that double the usual number of NATO submarines have been spotted heading to and from the key Faslane naval base.
“Sightings so far this year stand at 85 compared with 43 for the whole of 2021, and include a string of America’s most advanced Virginia-class fast-attack submarines.”
The U.S. Navy said previously that port visits to Faslane reflect the United States’ “commitment to our allies and partners in the region and complements the many exercises, training, operations, and other military cooperation activities conducted by Strategic Forces to ensure they are available and ready to safely and effectively operate around the globe at any time”.
The last time a U.S. Navy SSBN like the USS Rhode Island conducted a port visit to Faslane was when USS Alaska (SSBN 732) visited in July 2019.
In a visit to BAE in Glasgow, where the Royal Navy’s new anti-submarine frigates are being constructed, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said:
“The one thing Putin is going to have left after his illegal invasion is a navy and an air force. He uses his submarines, and they are good submarines, very well to intimidate. We’ve seen worries about critical national infrastructure, gas pipelines, internet cables. We need ships that are going to hunt those submarines or deter them, and that’s the role the ships are going to take.”
Russian submarines will “stay away” if they know a type 26 frigate is in the water, he added.
message to putin
May the Russian forces be pushed back into the Asov Sea and sunk! Strength to Ukraine 🇺🇦, its people, its armed forces and their President in pursuit of their victory! ✌️ 🇬🇧 🇦🇺 🇳🇿 💪 💪
With an added Christmas present from the UK!
“British forces reveal missiles being sent to Ukraine Ministry of Defence has posted a video showcasing Brimstone 2 missiles being sent to arm Ukrainian forces.
Brimstone 2s are precision-guided missiles originally designed for air-to-ground attacks.
According to the MoD, the Ukrainian armed forces are using them to target armoured vehicles and tanks.
They were flown from RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire.”
If the T26 B2s are now at a bargain price, can the UK afford 1-2 more? Just asking Mr BW… nicely… Lol 😁
Unlike building more Astutes this is something that could actually be done IRL.
However, it might interfere with T32 – the slip-of-the-tongue class.
Remember 2 x T26BII is similar money to the T31 program.
Whilst I don’t think the absolute budgets are being increased ATM Hunt is allowing BW more flexibility to spend agreed funds in ways that reduces overall costs
Increasing the defence budget whilst reducing lots of other budgets might have looked awkward for the government, any chance that some ‘extra funds’ are being slipped to defence under the table?
Given the UK is sending equipment to Ukraine, there is ample justification to either increase overall defence spending or to reimburse the armed forces from the strategic fund.
I suspect that is what Hunt is doing.
Nobody says the stockpiles don’t need to be replaced with the latest models.
The replacement funding for say gifting Harpoon might pay for something else?
At least in part. That might, in part, explain how the numbers of I-SSGW have risen from 5 to 11, that was the biggest surprise for me.
🤔😳😁
Good point. Hope you’re right.
HI SB, I would suggest that building a batch 3 of 2x T26 would be a cost effective way to increase the fleet size. I would like to them equipped with a version of the SAMPSON radar and associated C2 systems as a lead into the T83 Destroyers. I would keep pretty much everything else as is i.e. the MK41 VLS and a focus on ASW. The reason I suggest this approach is that BAES in Cowes need an on-going development stream for their radar technology. Some improvements are to be made to SAMPSON as part of the upgrades for… Read more »
CR, you have my vote. Extra AAW is always be useful for the fleet, CSGs and ABM defence.
If you are putting Sampson on a T26 you a building a totally different ship. The only way you get economy of scale is to make more identical units. T26 is totally ASW optimised T45 is totally AAW optimised. Both have the ability to take VLS. Good radar is not something a CSG is short of. Adding more Sampson would be a waste of money. The only exception to that would be to put it in the carriers where it was supposed to be. That would be higher up than even a T45 radar mast. Nope spend the money on… Read more »
“a totally different ship”
Don’t be so daft.
I’ll let you figure out the metacentric moment that Sampson creates on its high mast as well as the forces that are generated by its rotation.
Then you can check them for a T26 hull.
When you’ve done that I’ll take the comment a bit more seriously.
In things military you can’t just glue one thing onto another platform. Well you can: then you end up with AJAX.
Ajax – had to laugh! Nice one! 😂
He is correct. It’s like trying to adapt a VW Golf into a Ferrari. T26 is designed to be a dedicated ASW platform, with a very strong AAW capability to defend its self. Trying to bolt on T45 capability would be a mistake. We have know idea what the requirement of T83 actually is, and will probably be a clean sheet design to take advantage of new and emerging technologies.
When it comes to RN matters, nothing SB says is daft.
Ahem, Australian T26 with ceefar?
But that is a whole other class of ship that is being built……?
Not as was being suggested by OP here some unholy amalgam of T26/T45/T83….
In any case the CEFAR isn’t that high up compared to Artisan never mind SAMPSON.
Now CR, you know that outside the box thinking so annoys the Ye Olde Bean Counters Guild, that it might rouse their competitive spirit! 🤔😉
@CR Excellent idea 👍
Hi SB, just thought while the T26 program is starting to roll a bit and it was originally to be 9. Even increase the T31/T32s by 1 each too, for a wee bit more of more useful ships. I think a few of us here have asked for some extra Astutes already too with no luck…lol…we’ll have to wait for the SSN(R). Anyway, it always good seeing a new 🇬🇧 ship take shape and more to come.
I suppose, It would depend how quickly they need to move onto the Type 83, if they keep starting the T26 hulls on a two year cycle the last hull Of batch 2 will be started in 2031. If it takes five years to get it off the slips then that’s 2036 ish. Daring and dauntless will be getting very long in the tooth by then so they may have needed to have moved onto the T83 if they are getting one commissioned before the the first few T45s hit 30 years old. I am assuming that BAE get the… Read more »
They would not be ordering for 10 years so current economic issues won’t affect it.
Wow 85! If someone had asked how many I thought I would of guessed 25. Exciting times coming in December. Hopefully we find out the next submarine steps for Australia, Ajax decision is due, it’s Christmas and there’s some other things I’m sure I’ve forgotten about.
I get the very distinct impression that Russian Navy ships and submarines are having a very interesting time operating in NATO waters at the moment. Although I doubt very much that many of the surface units will even know if there is a NATO sub trailing them. I bet they are on their very best behaviour even when they are poking their noses into areas where they are not welcome…
Cheers CR
No these orcs dont know how to behave. Their behaviour is characterized by thinking they can do whatever they like without consequence. Then when their lack of training, lack of modern equipment, lack of success becomes obvious they revert to type. Attack infrastructure, civillians and flee a trained military response.
Bunch of cowards.
I grnuinely hope NATO does find a Russian naval unit conducting sabotage operations. That way we can engage and sink it. Or better still board it. Arrest its crew and put them on trial.
It would make a lot of sense to have a NATO-USA-AUS-UK class SSN wouldn’t it? Maybe a choice of propulsion and weapons fit but the same basic hull. The economies of scale would be tremendous. The challenges at sea are likely to be huge in the next 30 years.
The US will only build nuclear subs. It’s capacity to do so is totally maxed out as is that of the UK. France’s nuclear sub capability is also maxed out. The US is considering expanding its nuclear sub capability to reduce the timeline to build nuclear subs for Australia, but that is a multi-billion dollar commitment. And the US is not about to spend billions designing a new class of nuclear sub. It’s just not practical.
The US already are spending billions to design a new class of nuclear subs, as are we. Theirs is called SSN(X), ours is called SSN(R), and Wallace’s suggestion is that they use common technology and modules, along with Australia’s offering. So not quite as advanced as Jonno’s suggestion of us all building the same design, but certainly along those lines. Given that the mid-2030s is also a common timeline, the biggest issues on having a common design will be, do we have the same requirements (I think we broadly do), and who builds what, where? The US won’t want to… Read more »
The US sources like 15% of every F-35 built from the UK.
That was mainly because we contributed a significant wedge of the F-35’s development costs, something like 10% at the time. It’s relativlely fair to say that, at the time, our financial contribution and committed orders helped get the F-35 built. That’s why we get 15%, if it was just that our manufacturers can build something better than US ones, it would still be all built in America!
UK capacity isn’t maxed out. UK submarine production has been deliberately slowed so that they never get to a point where they run out of work.
That’s not possible as countries consider trade secrets like submarine acoustic tiles and aerogels for ICBM nose cones as top secret. While the US has been willing to share as we sent Electric Boat company to save your SSBN program that went off the rails, there’s no way we would do that for France. France jealously guards their strategic deterrent even more so than other countries. While the general public doesn’t really understand just how close the relationship between the US and French navies is. As the CDG sails with several USN sailors onboard to maintain the catapult as per… Read more »
SSBN? You mean SSN and the Astute delays?
Daniele,
He should be awarded partial credit for getting the concept correct, if losing points for convoluting separate programs. The interesting reveal will be in four months w/ AUKUS roadmap…🤔🤞
Could the T32 have Sampson fitted? Seems its better suited than T26 as it hasn’t been designed yet! Maybe as a 2nd tier AAW frigate.
You’d be much better if investing in the six T45 hills that we have that are in excellent condition. They have loads of life left in them as they haven’t been to sea as much as they were planned to. Then put VLS into T31 with some mixed missiles including AAW. T31 hill can’t have something g as heavy as Sampson as high as T45. The only other sensible place to put Samson is on the two QEC where it could go higher than in T45. However, you would need a hydraulically retractable mast to get it onto the Rosyth… Read more »
Or just mount the QE Sampsons lower than the bridge limit
Then there wouldn’t be that much point over T45….
As cool as a hydraulically retractable mast would be on the carriers, it sounds like a lot of dosh that would be better going into the Crowsnest replacement, which will always be able to see further at the horizon level, and better volumetric radar for T45s for BMD.
The volumetric radar on T45 is due an upgrade anyway.
BTW I agree on the CrowsNest replacement
Sorry furiously thumbing through my American English to UK English dictionary–dosh means money or perhaps technical effort? 🤔
It’s money in British slang
Thanks. 👍
Also see wonga, readies, dosh and bread. Us brits have no shortage of words for everyday things. In fact we could probably carry out a full conversation in our everyday language that would tie the best of enemy code breakers in knots.
Bread is w/in American lexicon of slang terminology–afraid wonga, readies and dosh did not make the transit successfully across the Pond…😳
Better not menstion moola then😀
mention even
Apologies on the pedantry but I’m sure it’s Moolah, wiv an aitch 😂
I challenged the height of the QEC re 4th Rail Bridge, even at low tide, I think N_A_B said the mast was retractable.
You are quite right about the existing mast folding – it does.
But a mast with something like Artisan on it is far removed from something like Sampson that would impose stresses and order of magnitude higher.
SB, not me that deserves credit, but, N_A_B 🙂
On the A140 website you can see the AAW variant and others. It’s a pretty versatile design. We could possibly even convert 2 of the 5 T31 to AAW or just make 2 more. Could complement the T45 PIP Aster/CAMM upgrades and be useful in the LRGs.
The AAW variant is a CGI or model – it isn’t a real design never mind a fully debugged entity.
It is really just a concept.
I noticed the U.K. media (B.B.C., Mail, …) have got this story but no acknowledgement to UKDJ that I can see! Cheek!
You read it here first! 😁
Can’t find it on BBC, Barry…
I see that Mons. Macaron is still trying to tell subs to Australia.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/asia-and-pacific/article/2022/11/19/macron-still-hopes-to-sell-submarines-to-australia_6004896_153.html
Ive mentioned this before and provided the direct line and qoutes. The Australian government is very mindful of the fact that France’s latest nuclear submarine the Barracuda class had its designs stolen. By the Chinese using industrial espionage. Therefore they cancelled the order for French subs and wanted to go nuclear. The Australians dont want a sub that the Chinese know everythjng about and are likely to utilise the designs stolen to leapfrog 1 possibly 2 generations of nuclear attack submarine technology to close the gap with Western submarines. Bravo France and goodbye Monsieur Macron. I think Australia will likely… Read more »
The UK defence budget is not going up for the foreseeable future. The fact that money was found for the Naval Strike Missile purchase (with numbers higher than anticipated) suggests a shift within existing funding to the RN. This makes strategic sense, but it remains to be determined whether and how the Army and RAF will pay the price.
Agree sounds very much like contingency funding or under spends. Even in the worst days under Cameron we were still able to scrounge up some funds for C17 purchase in this way. It’s one of the benefits of fitted for but not with I suppose. Takes decades and billions to build a class of warships but just a few years and few hundred million to put a new missile on it.
Cameron 👺
Yes, much better to have the platform but not all the capabilities enabled, than not have the platform at all.
The money can be moved around in a number of ways, if anything the way the armed forces overall spend on projects and procurements allows for alot of creative accounting to say the least.
BW may well have sorted out some of the existing ongoing projects and made savings, heck he may have even got a small rebate/refund from the farce that is Ajax! Who knows but if he keeps doing as he is then they can be as creative as they want.
Hi Mr Bell
I didn’t find any sources about this, can you send some links about this stolen case?
Fortunately the Barracuda isn’t at an even vaguely similar level to Astute.
Then there is the whole issue of Chinese copying which isn’t working well for jet engines….so I’d hazard a guess they will struggle even more with a nuclear submarine….
The amount of military aircraft that have flown over Kilmarnock, in the last few weeks is worrying.
Stated it before, bears repeating, if RN doesn’t exercise control, USN will be setting up shop at HMNB Clyde, a little annex at first, perhaps, but eventually…😳 Old saying, at least in US, “once the nose of the camel is inside the tent”… Recommend healthy harbor slip fees (RN could find a use for some extra coin). 🤔😁
It’s a and always has been a joint effort/operation SSN wise.
Yes we are a tad short on numbers at the moment, 4 x Astutes in service, Anson starting her trials/work up, Triumph due out of refit soon (not soon enough), then the last 2 at various stages of fitting out.
We would t e at full strength until 2026 when all 7 Astutes will be in service and Triumph will be retired.
At best we have 2 boats we can sortie, so yes need the help, although not unexpected by across the pond I imagine.
OT but relevant, finally able to report some USAF progress in strategic realm. Most extensive ‘Elephant Walk’ of B-2 to date occurred @ Whiteman AFB, MO on 07 Nov 22. Eight a/c; hey, it”s a start. Will be more impressive, once a few hundred B-21s are on the tarmac. First rollout scheduled for Friday.
Yes, read an article in ‘The Drive’s ref B-21 rollout this Friday. A most impressive bomber, should serve USBC well. Sadly it’s arrival will no doubt see the demise of the B-1 Lancer among others – one of the nicest looking bombers ever and v impressive for it’s time.
Despite the financial implications, believe that the B-21 would also be a good fit for both Aus and Can. Excellent reach and payload equates to impressive capability.
BTW, US StratCom press release stated that USS West Virginia visited Diego Garcia from 25 Oct thru 31 Oct. Don’t remember as much public info re SSBN port calls–ever. Someone is very interested in informing the world that the Boomers are out and about. Mad Vlad? ChiComs? Kim Jong Nutbag? Dunno–very interesting…,🤔
Agree, not something normally advertised, clearly sending a message to those that need to read it and understand!
Hope it makes suitable impression; evidently a recently released Pentagon report assessed slimeball ChiCom nuke warhead current inventory @ ~ 400 warheads, w/ projected quadrupling by 2035. Just about the time everyone projects a showdown at the OK Corral aka SCS. 🤔😳
The US has been exercising control with SSN action around the UK for about 60 years. The only reason they show up now is to prop up be half-assed allies that we have defended for years. And to send a message to Mr Putin. The submarines have always been there and the SSBNs. And the British prime minister bloviating about the type 26 that will not be operational for another three or so years is laughable. Not a proud moment for the Royal Navy
Wonder if the Dutch program could lead to an SSN build!>
WTF is “bloviating”?
Bloviating. US Slang, to talk at length, especially in an inflated or empty way.
US President Warren Harding once described it as “ The art of speaking for as long as the occasion warrants, and saying nothing”. Which rather sums up most politicians today, especially when they are talking about defence. They all seem to have been taking lessons from one Johnson B.
Well! Cheers Nick
You are totally clueless, not exactly sure what you have between your ears – probably an empty space, but take your chip somewhere else, I don’t think you will find many on hear interested in what you have to say.
For a person supposedly from Portugal you seem to have downer on any thing British! Now this the UK defence journal so bugger off to your own countries site and take your tripe with you.
Hahaha! You funny……..
Oh dear, more British Army socks found in your laundry I take it? And Mrs Esteban walking about smiling more than usual? It’s easy to see your bitterness! Don’t worry you’ll be ok!
slightly OT but there is a Navy Merlin currently flying interesting patterns in the middle of the Firth of Clyde between Brodick & Saltcoats .
I wonder if a NATO sub or Ivan is around… ?
It has since been to DM/RNAD Beith & back out to the same area …