The Ministry of Defence (MOD) has awarded a £55 million contract to Rosyth Royal Dockyard Ltd for the Capability Insertion Phase (CIP) of the Type 31 Frigate Programme, a significant step in advancing the Royal Navy’s operational capabilities.
As described in the contract award notice, “This contract is for the insertion, testing and enhancement of military capability of the Type 31 Frigate Programme.
This is known as the Capability Insertion Phase (CIP) and is standard across RN Fleet vessels new to Service.”
The CIP’s primary focus is to integrate advanced military capabilities into all five Royal Navy Type 31 Frigates during their transition into service.
The notice further specifies, “The work will include the provision of technical and management services that support the insertion of key military capability across all five [5] Royal Navy [RN] Type 31 Frigates as they transition into service.” This essential work is aimed at providing capabilities that extend beyond what was included in the initial vessel build phase.
Highlighting the importance of this phase, the notice states, “The CIP is essential to providing Royal Navy enhancements and will provide additional capability beyond that provided during the vessel build phase.”
It also clarifies the unique position of Rosyth Royal Dockyard: “The Company, as ship builder, is the only economic operator that can supply the Technical and Management Services with the necessary know how and technical information to fulfil this requirement.”
“Ships Acquisition, which is part of the UK Ministry of Defence (MOD) proposes to place a contract with Rosyth Royal Dockyard Ltd for the insertion, testing and enhancement of military capability, including the technical and management support services that contribute to the transitioning of the five [5] Type 31 Royal Navy Frigates into service.”
Good news is Rachel Reeves was in Rosyth yesterdaydiscussing both T31 second batch of 6 and T32. Also discussing options for 2 sales to NZ.
If NZ buy, it will be another A140 variant. T31 is too crippled, even for NZ.
Why do you say that..what’s cripples about a 6000 ton hull with a a 57mm x2 40mm, CAMM, navel strike missile, mk41 silo, large hanger for a large medium rotor, space for marines, mission bay etc ?
A 57mm thats the crippler wouldn’t rely on that for a good old NGS if it came too that .Or is a smaller calibre so that ratings can manhandle Rounds without straining themselves hint of Sarcasm there Johnathan
One of the interesting things is that the because of the huge ROF of the Mk5 57mm it can put more high explosive on a target than you think..infact it can but 120 rounds on a target in 30 seconds that’s 50kgs of high explosive…a bit anaemic compared to the 12 round with 21kg of high explosive each from a 4.5inch….what it will be able to do is some nasty fusing options with 3p with its programmable fuse and 4000 tungsten darts….120 of those in 30 seconds is going to murder infantry and light vehicles….it also has a guided round… Read more »
It’s just the Booties don’t like getting ashore too find that reinforced Bunkers are still intact
True but for that sort of hardened structure you would use a Precision strike option…quad pack spear 3 into a few MK41 silos and your not having a bunker issue any longer….for the reallly hardened structures ( that navel gunfire would do sod all against) you have navel strike missiles.
There werent any bunkers left on the Al Faw when Royal came in…DA to dig them out and Fused High to shred things in the open.
You can’t beat a broadside of 8 x 16″. Something good about the old BBs.
Mmm we never had a Battleship with 8 x 16”.
I think he means 9×16″ from the USN Iowa class BBs in the first gulf war.
We did have 9 x 16” two decades before the USN. Part of my handle was one of them HMS Rodney.
Hms London DLG fired the last Broadside, 10 12 81 4×4 5 on her last return from deployment prior too her hand over to the Pakistan navy
NGS can done by T36 with the 5 inch…
What’s a T36 Rob ?
An impressive ROF is fine sounding, but engagements at sea usually mean a high proportion on gunfire misses. That’s one reason a larger shell is important. Several pin pricks don’t add up to the kinetic damage a far larger single shell inflicts.
That is true, but a 57mm blast is not a pinprick to airborne threat and it’s actually also good against ships…what you also have with the 57mm mk5 is an impressive array of guided rounds…also the fact you can put 4 rounds a second on targets means you are more likely to hit..and hitting any ship with 4 57mm selectively fused shells will create an issue…small combatants will be dead. consider the small boat swarm engagement..with the 57mm each second a small boat is being treated to 4 blast fragmentations round delivering 1600 penetrators over and around it…basically is would… Read more »
By the way Johnathan, your not getting a backhander from the company too promote the 57mm by any chance Sarcasm again on my behalf
I may or may not have shares…😂😂😂
Is that a can or cannot deny if brought before the Arms commission hearing 🤔
I don’t think it can, the rpm of 57mm gun is nominal, it can’t fire 240 rounds in one minute because the gun tube is cooled only by air.
Hi Alex I’m pretty sure the the main limiting factor is the ammunition feed which only has 120 ready rounds.. bofors removed the water cooling after the mark one and suggested it was not needed and that the construction of the barrel was adequate for heat dissipation. I have had a good look on a number of occasions to see if I could find anything on this but it’s clearly not open source.
I’ve seem 30mm barrel start too loose rifling after one fully loaded ammunition hopper was emptied that only 250rds In AA mode on the Hunts that’s why we always carried a spare barrel will the 57mm also or is it smooth bore
It’s a monoblock rifled barrel with 24 groves, the monoblock construction removes issues of thermal expansion (apparently it’s the last thing in barrels for firearms..but I’ve never shot with a monoblock barrel so cannot say) . Bofor claim the monoblock does not need water cooling and I have managed to find the evidence. In 2004 the US coastguard did a load of test firing including rapid fire of the whole 120 ready rounds on the auto loader..and did five sets of rapid fire with 120 rounds. Seems they had a lot of fun with it and went through 2000 rounds… Read more »
Thanks Johnathan, during Granby the BBC was on one of our sister Hunts and the Gun crew hadnt locked the barrel in the first Rd fired saw the barrel disappeared over the side at a rapid rate of Knotts
Maybe give me kiwi the next to retire type 23
T32?
T31 for New Zealand was mentioned not T32. Babcock are apparently keen on T32 as they see significant export potential for it however they are also preparing a bid for a second batch of 6 X T31 instead of T32. I have no idea why it’s 6 but she said 6 very clearly to me last night labour don’t appear to have an actual policy on this yet however atleast she is there in the dockyard and she knows the score. It helps that Rosyth is right in the nexus of three key labour marginal seats and Gordon Brown has… Read more »
Well,6 would take the RN back to 25 escorts, that would be welcome, but we all know politicians are little more than professional liars and her brief was clearly to do everything necessary to get Labour votes. If it is however a true glimpse of Labour Naval policy, then it clearly spells the end of the line for the Royal Marines as deployable infantry above a single Commando Bt. AUKUS is a firm commitment too, so no way can Labour wriggle out of that one. So, an increased number of SSN’s and Escorts… They will have to rob Peter quite… Read more »
Or six to early retire the T23s and save on LIFEX, which you considered, right?
That would collapse the escort force David?
We are commited to hugely expensive and utterly wasteful T23 LIFEX, no choice….
We must ensure that never happens again…
Again, is that a counter factual?
We don’t have an escort force; and it will only get worse.
T31 must be the half-life frigate; sell it off while a newly built one is taking over. That would give us a sustainable Escort Force and create overseas sales for spares AND save on lifex expenses.
And you are 100% correct, never again.
Absolutely David, they should be replaced at the 20 year point. Refitting T23 has proven to be an extremely expensive mistake. Unfortunately the Sandbox war years paused everything that wasn’t directly in support of that effort. The Army got so used to purely supporting brigade operations in Afghanistan with UOR kit, it’s Armoured forces were ignored and starved of funds and have ended in a mess of obsolescence. it’s the same with the RN escort force. It just withered on the vine post 2001, simply not seen as important. We saw project T26 launched, stall, relaunched, go big, go small,… Read more »
Ermm.
It’s never great optics with Green agreeing with Dark Blue, I mean you are so just darn sensical at the moment, bang out ships on missions ( they end faster than chicken tikka in a microwave) but you have the James Bond of Marketing.
However, 100%
(MilInt work with Them to eliminate RN Marketing team!)
We must have ASW escorts as an island trading nation. So LIFEX of the remaining T23’s is essential to maintain numbers at an already abysmally low level until the new T26’s are all in service.
But does it spell the end of the line for RM …etc? Echo and Enterprise will be sold/scrapped and the batch 1 Rivers will be replaced. Replace these say by 4 additional T31, + 2 export for NZ would make 6 in total. And do you need a T32 if your ‘Karel Doorman’ style MRSS ( say 4/5 off) can launch mine clearance drones? With a bit of ingenuity and luck we could end up with more escorts and a regenerated expeditionary capability – more flat top area.
It all depends on SDSR 2025 David, I have a horrible feeling the RM Corps will be thrown under the bus along with its hugely manpower intensive RN Amphibious shipping (so in its current form) to release funding for Escorts, enhanced Carrier Strike, SSN’s etc.
We already know that’s the case, as Albion and Bulwark tick up towards 20 years of service, there’s zero talk of even discussing replacements
Chopping block time ….
Fair point; the LPD’s are too expensive. But I can’t see the UK forsaking its expeditionary capability altogether and we do need humanitarian DR capability. I would convert another container Bezant, a sister ship for Argus – cheap and cheerful LPH – and retain the Bays of course.
Perhaps they will build 6 frigates and scrap the carriers like they did with CVA01…..
Don’t even joke about it Rob!!
They didn’t scrap CVA01 they never even actually ordered it. Big difference from scrapping 2 huge, virtually Aircraft carriers.
Sorry but we wouldn’t need passports anymore just walk up to immigration, and say “I’m British and I’m a Teapot”.
One thing I’ve never really got to the bottom of, in Eric winkle Browns excellent book Wings on my sleeve, he mentions CVA01 and the fact that not only was it’s construction cancelled, but the keel had started to be laid when the plug was pulled.
Fact or just mistaken recollection by Brown??
No the keel had not been laid down, the U.K. shipbuilders were in a bit of turmoil as to how and who was going to build them but the steel had been ordered. He was an amazing test Pilot and his books are brilliant but some of his Stories are a wee bit fanciful. If you want a more authoritative source regarding CVA01 try David Hobbs or David K Brown RCNC. Legend has it that the Chief Designer said it was the happiest day of his life when they cancelled it. The design had been messed around so much it… Read more »
Thanks, I’ll look it up, as I recall the issues started to pile up because the treasury insisted on displacement cut, upon cut.
And 1 type 82 was all that came of that great idea Rob
Where does it say anything about marines being cut or ships? We may see an end to large vulnerable amphibious ships but I think we will see some capability retained, whether it’s squads from frigates, RFA ships etc. the marines are operating in smaller teams now anyway. 3rd commando brigade is just a name holder for all marines to group under. I think a capability to launch upto a few hundred marines to establish a zone of control for back up forces to come into with ships, aircraft providing precision and general support. Once control zone is established and air… Read more »
I haven’t said anything about the RM’s being cut completely, they will likely be reduced to circa 4,000 and left with the Bays.
What’s you’ve surmised MS, is pretty much what I’ve hypothesised.
Ahh I see. I read it quickly at work and had thought I’d missed it in the article.
It’s your thoughts going forward. Time will tell, wait and see policy unfortunately.
Ahh, I see, you spoke with her and she said 6 to you? In what context? As in an additional T31 to the first 5 or an additional 6 which may include NZ ones?
I hope Labour smash the SNP in Scotland.
She told me Babcock was preparing a bid for 6 T31. That’s what they told her at Rosyth.
She is the shadow chancellor so won’t be too familiar with defence policy and I don’t think Labour yet has a policy on T32 or second batch of T31 as labours current policy is to continue what ever the Tory’s have on the go at the end of next year.
But it’s promising signs and I conveyed the sentiment from everyone at UKDJ comments section that T31/T32 is absolutely vital 😀
“She told me Babcock was preparing a bid for 6 T31”
Absolute bullshit.
“I conveyed the sentiment from everyone at UKDJ comments section that T31/T32 is absolutely vital”
Even more bullshit
Any explanation as to why you say that?
A bid being prepared but for who?
The Royal Navy
Sadly Jim, that’s just not going to happen without a prior SDSR.
An aspiration perhaps….
Will only happen without SDSR if Troys order them before election.
That won’t happen Jim….
Or the RAN?
God I hope so Jim.
Thanks for representing all the good folks here and our considered opinions.
Now fingers and toes crossed because we really really really are going to need another 6 frigates. No doubt about that.
👍💪
Jim she is in Rosyth her boss is in Glasgow on the same day. The SNP are locked away in Holyrood looking down the backs settees to try and find the V5 for the wee Crankies Battle bus so they can get it in Automart for Xmas. A £1 billion budget hole and they think Westminster will bale them, please it’s way to comical to let this one pass. We are less than a year away from a GE and the Tory’s have a very large majority to overturn. Right now the SNP are looking even more desperate and clueless… Read more »
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Good stuff. What actually happens we will have to wait and see. It’s such a good idea for more ships to have presence around the globe. As we saw with the ships being attacked off Yemen ships are still needed for escort and need to be armed with guns and air defence.
The 2 x 40mm and 1x 57mm would be a good destroyer off incoming drones, small boats etc.
If Gordon Brown is active again I expect to see plans for a super carrier (or 2) to be announced imminently.
He’s not that active 😀
😆
Gordon Brown may not be everyone’s cup of Tea but he is someone I have a lot of respect for. He is a man of the Manse, a Unionist, Highly Intelligent, genuine moral standards and delivered assets for our Defence in such a way no one could cancel them. And a Rugby Player to boot.
Hmmm. We will agree to disagree mate. The carriers were in his constituency, or close to it, which is probably why he took such an interest. As Chancellor, he didn’t fund SFSR 98. He took 3 billion, or was it 5, i forget, from the rotary budget and cancelled SABR, meaning Merlin moved from the RAF to the RN to replace SK Commando helicopters. Through that time 97 to 2010 cuts were happily underway, which some here excuse as a “different time” so all ok compared to the big Tory cuts that came after. I’ve listed them countless times here,… Read more »
Hi M8, Had to think about my reply for a wee while. I completely agree that he was pretty clueless about Defence and yes he was MP for the neighbouring constituency. But compared to Duncan Sandys, Dennis Healey and John Nott he is minor league in a very large league of useless Politicians when it comes to Defence. He was the Chancellor and their go to answer to anything is “how much ?, can it be cheaper ? and what can I cut to pay for it ?”. But he was instrumental in getting the 2 Carriers built and short… Read more »
Hello my friend. Wow, I’d forgotten about this convo, so respect to you mate for taking the time to think of a response.
On that, we can agree. Long live the union.
And then sold the Gold reserve at a loss
If “Call Me Dave” made a comeback before the election, you don’t suppose…
You know, I was thinking back recently with regard to which of our PMs since 2000 had, to all intents & purposes, locked in promised RN vessel unit delivery, rather than announce grand plans which were then watered down. Turns out my winner is ….(long suspenseful pause)…. Gordon Brown, for the Aircraft Carriers. Yes, Mr ‘Grumpy Beligerent’, useless at soundbites & spin doctoring.
For that timely RN lethality enhancement, in hindsite, I managed to back seat the Jobs for the Firth of Forth Constituencies accusation, warranted though it was.
Why do people have a go at him the QE’s are truly British Ships with major blocks built in England and Scotland but assembled in Rosyth.
OK it is smack next to his old constituency but it had the only operational drydock that was big enough and had an experienced workforce to do the job.
But with zero funding in place for at least a decade thereafter..
Lets hope it is 6 indeed, but it may just be promising the earth in order to make Labour look bad when they have to reduce the numbers, knowing they’ll lose the net GE.
It was a Boris thing by all accounts, 3 years on and there is nothing in the pipeline and nothing in the budget and nothing in the design phase.
Fine by me. I’d prefer a batch 2 of T31.
Yes indeed…just produce more of a good ship as quickly as possible to sort out the lack of escorts….maybe have a second batch with tails….one group beefing up surface strike and one group beefing up the lower end ASW numbers..
Daniele and Jonathan, totally, I concur…..
But 6? Have you found a spare sock, yet?
(Should you fail to encompass the meaning, Airborne will be along shortly with some erudition).
Getting worried, I’ve not seen him for some days! 😀
Someone mentioned a bum fight (they meant bun fight), I asked the poster if the were talking about 3 PARA mortars vs ROYAL.
Airborne dropped in, spot on the DZ, hmm.
😆 And yes,still no idea what your on about with the socks. Where is A when I need him?
Folks used to hide money in socks 🥴
And other bizzare places! Sorting through my darling mum’s home I’m finding all sorts.
M8 I’m sorry to hear about your loss, please accept my condolences. It’s a horrid job to do, it’s soul destroying, I had to do the same when my Mum passed away. Don’t ask me why but some old folks just keep on putting something aside for a rainy day and it never rains again. Don’t forget to check under the carpets, up the chimney, taped to the underside of drawers or in weighted jars in the cistern. We found things stashed everywhere, mainly money, but some things were just interesting. I found my Dad and my Uncles Medals, Red… Read more »
Lovely post, mate! It’s the funeral today, and that made me smile.
Red Berets?
👍
With a decent bow sonar
Hi DM,
Hows your wonderful world. Anyway, six batch 2 T31s Oh yes please. Then again, I do like the Babcock T32 concept. I am not sure but it could be that the T32 could be cheaper than the T31 when the Mk41s are included in the price. I do wish that the MoD could find some money for containerised CAPTAS.
In a bit of a tizzle, thanks!
I’ll believe it when i see them ordered. Politicians talk, then row back.
Babcock have already released their T32 design. It’s a supped up T31 with stern ramp like LCS.
They seem to think it’s a major export winner.
Babcock have not released a Type 32 design – it was a variation of the A140 Platform that could be offered as a POSSIBLE option to a Type 32 requirement should one be issued.
can you post a link here please.
Hi Frank,
Link: https://www.navylookout.com/babcock-showcases-stretched-arrowhead-140-multi-role-naval-platform-concept-with-view-to-type-32-frigate-competition/
Cheers CR
Hi Frank,
Just posted a link – it’s await moderation…
Cheers CR
Tried but it got blocked, navy look out has a good page on Babcock Type 32.
Was it Bozo “mis-speaking” again?
Radakin said that T-32 ‘could be T-31 batch 2’ but could also be a new design. There is no money for either in the MOD equipment budget. Will be interesting to see what develops after the election.
Interesting is not the word….terrifying springs to mind.
As it stands, 8xT26 and 5xT31, with the T45s, maintains the new low, which has been standard for a while now.
The new minimum is always the benchmark they go for, and we’re below that already with the mess some of the 23s are in.
Labour will have no problem committing themselves to building them then in the run up to the election. Then if they get in they can explain to the unions why they’re not going ahead with the build. Even a commitment to five more properly equipped T31’s would be a good vote winner, for either party. 😉
Agree, I think with Labour you would see commitment around defence related to military industrial complex..as that’s a system that creates good high skilled manufacturing jobs….
i would say that anything linked to manufacturing jobs in the UK will see good investment, if it does not I would imagine that would be something that would likely see cuts…it’s luckly we have a good work share in F35 or I could see that buy ending up limited…although I honestly only see it going above 70 if the UK, Japan, Italy 6 generation jet fails as a programme
I hope you’re right about the first, although past experience with Labour has not been good. On the F35 I think you’re right. I’d actually go further. If the Tempest is really timed for a 2035 “operational” debut. then to my mind we should invest in more Typhoons, particularly those with electronic warfare capability, maybe sharing with the Germans. Another 20 plus F35’s would give us sufficient airframes to normally run three or four naval squadrons of ten or eight respectively whilst having a “Pathfinder” squadron available to the RAF.
I think with Labour you would see a commitment around defence related to
military industrial complexPossibly, possibly true Paul…but I don’t think that’s a bad thing..if it gets the escort hulls needed built and it destroys the hold of the Scottish nationalist party and saves the Union…..buy those Scottish votes with more warship hulls….bugger building 6 more given em 10…
Just me being cynical. Actually the visit would be consistent with Reeves validating for herself a Labour government policy which might prioritise European defence and the North Atlantic as well as Scottish jobs / votes and exports. A navy with more frigates. I think she is a person who gets down to the detail.
I would say so, I do consider Reeves one of the more serious politicians around at present. A very significant mind, she was an under 14 chess champion, MA In economics from Oxford and an MSC from the London School of Economics…she was also a jobbing economist with the Bank of England and HBOS for a decade…infact I believe If Labour do win she will be the first ever economist to become chancellor ( most of the modern chancellors, have been bankers, financial analysts or business men…so all with a lesser understanding of economics in regards to nations and supranational… Read more »
Starmer was in Glasgow same day, just a mile from the shipyards. All the headlines were about Palestinian protests but I wonder, apart from the obvious electioneering, if he and Reeves were on a joint mission to find out if there was any scope for saving money by accelerating frigate builds and scrapping some T23 lifexes.
It does bode well for the navies building programme that the Labour leadership are actually taking a proper interest…getting Britain building again is one of their 5 key pledges and that one is all about increased economic and industrial output…as well as high paid tec and industrial jobs…I suspect they have twigged there is a big new market in moderate sized and decent quality war ships..as well as the fact when we are not fucking it up with exquisite designs and limited build numbers we can actually achieve: 1) A lucrative industry….even if your selling off pre loved vessels it’s… Read more »
Oh I don’t think the SNP need any assistance in tripping over their own feet Jonathan….
Their single policy of screaming ‘ Scotland the brave’ over and over again and hoping for the best is finally getting tired. The majority in Scotland are waking up to the fact that that the SNP couldn’t find shit in a sewage works with a North Sea trawler quite frankly ….
The devolution debate is about to tank for another 25 years, until the next SNP pied piper manages to hypnotise enough Scots to trigger it all again….
I really hope so…it will be dead as soon as Labour win around if the Labour Party can win 20 more Scottish parliament seats from the SNP..putting them back where they were in 2007….that would give the unionists around 65% of the seats and no mandate at all for the SNP to keep on banging on about the destruction of the nation.
🤣🤣🫣 Don’t mention the devolution, I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it……
Devolve…intransitive verb…to cause to roll onward….or downwards 😂
Unfortunately Labour won’t commit to anything. The upper leadership are happy to stay silent while Rishi ends the Tory party once and for all.
Many in labour are not happy about the strategy but what to do? It’s working.
Above all Labour are aiming for fiscal stability which given the poison often spewed about the last labour government on here is a wise idea.
2% of GDP is guaranteed by Labour but their won’t be any more money.
No argument on this Jim. The Tories are on some sort of suicide mission, mainly because so many of their MP’s can’t shut up. If you’re right about Labour only time will tell but the worst cuts in defence, even allowing for Cameron and his Liberal chums, have always been under Labour. Look what Blair and Co. did.🙄
Rubbish – Cameron’s 2010 SDSR absolutely eviscerated the Army. If you are going to spout politics on this site, get it right
Fair enough David. Don’t believe me. Just go back into Blair’s era and work out the figures across all services for yourself.
He does this all the time, best just to ignore him.
The charts on page 8 the report here https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8175/ shows that the bigger cuts have tended to be under the Tories.
I’ll say this just once more. I was talking about the actual cuts in three services equipment. As I said to David just go back and work it out for yourself. 🙂
David Lloyd super sleuth 😀
We’re you not one of the characters in famous 5 or something 🤣
That’s was SDSR 2015, the army got a pass in 2010 on account of the war in Afghanistan,
Trying google, it is free and it can help you find information.
Genius
The defence budget was much higher until Cameron and Co slashed it. Moving trident into the core budget was in effect a huge cut. There was also a genuinely more settled world back in the day, not the mess we live in now, don’t let context get in the way of talking bollocks though.
I don’t think you’re talking bollocks. As you say the budget has DEcreased (?) from £40 billion in 1997 all the way down to £69 billion this year.😏 Check out what I suggested to David earlier.
40 billion in 1997 is equivalent to around 85 billion today, so in real terms the budget has been cut over time
Fair enough but I was talking about the cuts in equipment originally.
They tried that at Barrow in Furness, Hutton, then Defence Secretary threatened a riot, and the idea was put in the round filing bin.
I’d forgotten that. You’re right.🙂
Happy to help 🙂
Can you tell us what you know about the T32’s please ?
I’ll tell you what the Labour Party knows, which is basically nothing. It’s an aspiration, it’s unfunded, Babcock has a preliminary design which is very excited about and it thinks it is a real export winner. It’s basically a more fighty T31 with a stern ramp and the acoustic dampening that was offered initially in T31 project. Different sensors and weapons fit will be available and it will primarily operate drones in contested environments primarily for MCM.
If it goes ahead it’s almost certain to be built at Rosyth.
“I’ll tell you what the Labour Party knows, which is basically nothing”
Sounds familiar, just carry on the bullshit
Pointless arguing with the hard right fascists on here. They get off on the spin and guff spouted by rishi and his crew.
You really don’t know what was Fascism . It is certainly near Labour then the Tories historically.
Interesting to hear that you were at Rosyth and that you spoke to RR in person, what did she say when you mentioned this place ? were you there in an official capacity ? 🤔
I spoke to her at an event held later that day.
Absolute crap and bullshit. What drug are you on?
I still have doubts about the type 32 actually happening I’d rather see the type 31order doubled type 31,I T think will be a big success but the design is lacking in the ASW set up
Cross fingers they come equipped with more that the rumoured 12 camm silo to start with and only need an uplift for NSM and mk41, although a decent camm capacity and NSM I would rate more than mk41 until a mid life refit.
A good ship for NZ I would have thought.
AA
I think it will end up with a lot of the mk 41s silos holding CAMM anyway..so 12 cold launchers would be ok if it then has plenty of mk41 silos to allow beefing up of the AAW missile load out as needed.
hopefully we will see a load out of 12 CAMM, 8 NSM and 24 mark 41 silos for a sculpted load out…that’s better than the majority of European frigates in that tonnage.
Better off having more Camm at launch and using any mk41 for anti ship/land attack ordinance? 24 Camm, 24 anti/wotever AND 8 NSM. Can always dream. AA
To be honest, I think the big issue will actually be filling all those silos..if they put 24 in each T31 and the 8 T26s have 24 as well that’s 312 silos to fill, altogether they would off load those in refit so say 200+ silos. When you think the UK tomahawk stock stands at about 65 missiles..in not sure exactly what the Load out would look like…I think CAMM will be a profoundly useful ASuW weapon as well as AAW ( a Mach 3, 100kg missile is going to mission kill most combatants and in some situations will be… Read more »
Agree rgds camm secondary Asuw role..especially if camm er/mr is used….but What I really want, what really really want…is to see is a VL Spear 3 to fit the camm silo. Come to think of it, spear3 ANYWHERE would be great. The first lot of missiles will need a refresh before they get issued at this rate. Assuming sp3 is Camm compatable, then a 36 silo and 8 nsm would be a fantastic loadout…for the price. Let’s face it. The mk41s are not going to be bursting with supersonic goodies any time soon. Sure mbda have shown VL sp3 artwork?… Read more »
I agree around the spear three, that should be levered as much as possible and it would be a great missile for a ship hanging around the gulf with all those nasty Iranian swarm boats….I’m not sure it could be deployed form from the same silos as I don’t think there is a soft launch option for Spear 3 although there is a potential option to quad pack it in MK41 silos…I think that would be a very good option to have in the MK41s…10 silos coils hold 40 very clever swarm missiles, with a mix of EW missiles in… Read more »
Well. None of our current tomahawk can go into MK41 VLS as they are all torp launched variant.
HMG will need to order LRASM OR standard Tomahawks as per what the Areleigh Burke’s carry for our MK41 VLS.
indeed I was using it more as an example of the level of holdings of long range strike missiles….I would not expect HMG to go mad on filling surface vessel type 41 isles with something like tomahawk….possibly a modest buy of 40-50 or so after all they are 4 million dollars a pop…so you are talking the cost of a type 31 to get 40ish of them.
Another thing, with CAMM, will it be mix of Classic CAMM and CAMM – MR? Isn’t it a waste putting the former into a MK41 silo? I wonder why they couldn’t have compacted the six silo 🍄 CAMM into an eight, maybe 2×4, as it is on the back of trucks? I guess it is way cheaper, less deck penetraring, lighter, maybe reloadable(?) than the MK41 and a British build. Like to see CAMMs put into a 20/40 ‘container setup. Andi wonder if the newer Aster’s will able to be fired from MK41s?
Sorry Jonathan, you mentioned the CAMM mix above. With all the MK41s and FCASW seemingly taking ages the French upgrading their Exocet, the UK getting NSM, you got to think if things got hotter that the UK would get some extra TLAMs even for the Astute’s?
It would not surprise if the did but a new TLAM is 4 million dollars…if you look at any future active fleet of 13 ships each with 24 MK41s and say you have 66% either going into or coming back from deployment that’s a lot of silos to fill…to just fill the active and deployed hulls would need around 150 missiles…that’s 600 million dollars or 2 type 31s….so I think you will only ever see a few TLAM in any one ship….so I’m bettering a lot of the time most of those silos will run with CAMM..why not it’s a… Read more »
The T31 is turning into a bit of a missile truck isn’t it, bit of a Typhoon of the seas? Putting 4 MK41s in is quite a big commitment that many nations have done the same and more, so there must already be thoughts of what is to go in them, how many and how much. Still think they could put a MK41 or two (if the UK is buying them in “bulk”… Lol) on the T45s and even 24 CAMM, make it more potent and update the main gun. Did someone mention here before that two CAMM-ER /MR can… Read more »
Currently with t31 design that isn’t possible, as there are boat bays either side of central missile section, meaning you can’t put 24x camm (12 per side) like ESSM on Iver Huidfledt class. Similarly the central missile space is designed for 16 or 32 Mk41, not 24. So the best loadout we/I am hoping for T31 at this stage is 32x MK41 and 8x NSM. This could allow for a loadout of 32x CAMM, 32x CAMM-MR, 8x Spear 5 FC/LACM or FC/ASW (vertically launched version) and 8x NSM. Or you could go with a land attack/strike package with 20x Spear… Read more »
Why do these announcements always sound like gobbledygook? We all know what capabilities are to be added, so why not just say so?
And these are?
The bureaucracy keeps the world going 😀
Is this the Mk41s? Because £55m seems pretty good value to me relative to what everyone has been saying the cost of Mk41s is. Holland bought 8 x eight cell blocks for $110m. We got 20 x eight cell blocks. We got strike length, right?
It’s a contract to install all the warfighting stuff. It’s not for additional capability beyond the specification. Adding mk41 would be an additional project for example.
The £55m is for fitting a kettle and microwave in the captains quarters. The kettle is running over budget though after the gold plated spec mutated into solid gold, result is it’s now to be fitted for but not with the microwave.
I heard they are now looking at an Air Fryer instead.
😁😁😁😁
It will be for the drawings etc. New kit needs to fit in somewhere and you need to know space, power suppliesd, breakers, pipework equipment mount locations so it can fit in.
Had plenty of mods and A&As fitted on my previous ships where they turned up with boxes, shock mounts, cables and bulkhead penetrations to find a bit of kit already fitted there or that the drawings they had didn’t match the reality onboard.
Thank you. I got a little overexcited, but I’m back down to Earth again now.
What is actually included in the CIP? Mk41 vls? NSM?
Is this 55m anything to do with dispute over the pricing of £250 m a ship? Surely Babcock must have the interests of the country and the R N. at heart or is it the cash?
Good news if true, but I wonder if the RN would be able to crew 6 vessels in addition to 19 escorts? Then again, the Tories may be planning to pull some rabbits out of the hat for election year – God knows, they need to do something. All things considered, 4x T32 (or T31 B2) sounds about right. So maybe 4 for the RN and 2 for NZ?
Sorry this was meant to be a response to the Rachel Reeves quote in the comments
O/T I see the Royal Navy will acquire two floating dry docks, according to Navy Look Out.
Discussed here a few weeks back.
Which article?
21st November, Clyde Naval Base to get 2 new floating docks.
Cheers. I’m not sure how I missed that.
Isn’t it time to work on a ship hull design, make it as ‘future proof’ as needs be, which would then form the ‘base’ for any and every future ship requirement?
Just asking, as the cost of these things seem to go up almost daily.
The USN may have perhaps done that with the Arleigh Burkes. Now they need a new hull form but have a lack of Naval Architects. N-A-B over on Navy Lookout is your person to answer that question.
Healey saying “we will fund the MOD to ensure our Sovereign and NATO commitments are fully met”
Thats a telling statement with lots of scope to cut the budget.
If its not a NATO commitment, then they will wave bye bye to it?
Carriers are they a NATO requirement?
Escorts…No carriers then less Escorts…
Deterrent?
Out of area Strategic air lift?