In an impassioned Westminster Hall debate, Martin Docherty-Hughes MP (SNP, West Dunbartonshire) spotlighted the ordeals of UK citizens imprisoned overseas.
He underscored the case of his constituent, Jagtar Singh Johal.
Docherty-Hughes began, “This is not the first time that I have risen to my feet in Westminster Hall to speak on this very subject.” He continued, describing the unexpected aspects of his role: “There are many parts of the job… dealing with constituents who are themselves in some sort of distress… is certainly one of those things that we cannot prepare ourselves for before being elected.”
The MP expressed concerns over the glaring gap between the support services families expect and the reality of what’s provided. Referring to the British passport inscription, he noted: “His Britannic Majesty’s Secretary of State requests and requires… to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary.” He then argued, “prisoners… are the very definition of vulnerable people at the mercy of the state.”
Docherty-Hughes delved into the troubling case of Jagtar Singh Johal, detailing, “The circumstances of Jagtar’s arrest—being snatched off the street by unidentified men, held incommunicado, and then signing a confession… meant that the case got attention.” He cited the subsequent emergence of the “Free Jaggi Now” campaign as a beacon of hope.
Although acknowledging the consular prisons team’s commendable efforts, Docherty-Hughes lamented their lack of resources. He cited: “the de-prioritisation of consular budgets,” and pointed to the insights from the all-party parliamentary group on deaths abroad, consular services, and assistance. This report, he said, is “full of excellent recommendations to ensure that the importance of consular services is recognised.”
Closing his address, Docherty-Hughes was resolute in his call for change: “This Government… need to do much more to ensure that holders of that document receive ‘such assistance and protection as may be necessary.’”
Watch the debate in full here.
He is right. When a British passport holder is abroad it’s the governments duty to do everything they can to ensure they are held safety and have the legal support required to ensure a free and fair trial.
If that can’t be guaranteed all attempts to get them back to the U.K. to face the charges should happen.
Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law is a foundation of democracy and must be applied in all cases.
I’m just confused. We have the highest tax rate since the second World War and yet I can’t name a single public service that isn’t cash stretched. Where is the money going. OK covid and truss hit the coffers hard but that went onto the national debt rather than directly from tax money, OK that means higher interest but equally high inflation deflates that. Would love to understand where the money has gone.
It’s proven in court rather billions has gone to Torry donors for no return, but still the tax revenue of the UK is over £400b, a few billion defrauded is a splash, shouldn’t be allowed but still a splash.
That’s just for plebs like us. What has happened since Reagan & Thatcher is the top 1% filthy rich went from 70-80% tax to virtually nothing. So huge amounts of wealth went off shore & away from nations exchenquers. That’s why we pay more tax than ever but get less for it & society is crumbling around our ears. That & the relaitvely rich tending to withdraw from society into their own ghettos, private education, healthcare etc, so those that had clout & resources no longer worked to imporove public services, education, health care. They don’t mind & we don’t matter.
Wealth doen’t “Trickle down”, it just gets hoovered up ever more efficiently by the rich.
That is certainly the Oxfam narrative.
The reality is very different, Cameron brought in CRS and the US introduced FATCA over 10 years ago.
There is no such thing has hiding money offshore anymore.
Just ask Bernie Ecclestone how that’s working out.
Most of the “data” Oxfam uses in the UK on the 1% includes foreign non doms in London who make it look like there is a UK 1% when infant it’s not it’s a global one.
The UK is actually one of the biggest offshore jurisdictions in this regard but the country benefits from net capital inflows and higher income taxes raised in London because of it.
Although even this is rapidly coming to and end as the government has reduced non Don status and Labour is looking to remove it which they believe would raise £3 billion a year which is sweetie money for a government spending £1000 billion a year.
According the OECD data the UK actually raises more money from higher earners and less money form lower earners than any other European country.
That’s primarily due to London based bankers who earn vast sums but also pay large taxes on it because when you work for a bank you can’t contract out like BBC staff and other celebrities do. That’s illegal under FCA two principal rule.
One of the major factors that has reduced UK’s tax take since 2008 in the vast reduction in banker bonuses.
The top 1% pay over 30% of the total UK tax income.
UK GDP has not recovered from the Great Financial Crisis. Meanwhile, regular annual inflation continued to accrue. This means every year, prices go up, while the nation’s revenue more or less stayed unchanged. On top of that came Covid19, which an LSE professor estimated cost the nation as much as a decent-sized war would have.
That’s what these Extinction twats don’t understand. We are struggling to tread water as is, never mind shell out for expensive climate management programmes. Yes, they are better for the environment, but they also cost more than the “dirty” way. This is obvious to anyone with half a working brain cell.
No, it isn’t true that “ze billionairez” have socked it all away. The public purse consumes too much. You could strip the “ze billionairez” of every penny and two years down the line you will find yourself in the same pickle, because you’re not solving the overall problem: LACK – OF – GDP.
Indeed the UK has never recovered from the last financial crisis, or the one before that, or WW2 debt or in fact from the fact that we can no longer milk an empire for food and cheap labour. Indeed Liz Truss’ global trade deals and the upcoming trade deal with India are rooted in that imperial memory. India will feed us and we will import lots of Indian software engineers and doctors – they being more industrious and talented than our own young people – apparently. We lurch Dunkirk style from crisis to crises so we can prove to ourselves how good we are at triumphing over adversity. Get used to it – its a signature characteristic of Britishness. 🙂
We worship the all powerful god of GDP. If we stopped doing that and considered other, newer, sustainable models of the economy things might improve. I’ve a feeling that this green, global warming thing might just force us to focus on the necessities of life. A fortnight’s family holiday in Spain will soon cost about the same as a heat pump?
“Indian software engineers – they being more industrious and talented than our own”
Nope!
They being easier to exploit in a toxic management system.
Note: taking 10h offshore to do what’s done in 7h onshore is not ‘more industrious’ rather less productive.
Preaching to the converted mate. Have to ask whether Sunak was facilitated into the job so that the UK Tory wealth owning classes could become part of de upcoming greater Indian family. This whole thing is redolent of 1930s Germany where the monied establishment manoeuvred their patsy into power.
GDP isn’t a god, it is merely a measurement. Even if you were to switch to other forms of economic activity, you would still use GDP – no matter by what name – to measure it.
If we were to legalise prostitution and drugs GDP would increase. Would we pat ourselves on the back?
Not necessarily. Prostitution may not be a significant industry and drugs brings social ills which can cost more to fix than it earns – healthcare costs, crime impact, etc. I won’t go into specifics because I cannot predict the future – otherwise I would beat Warren Buffett – but the end of the day one has to look at what the UK really sells to the world, and whether it is enough to support UK Govt spending.
@Jim by the way is being conservative. The UK spends more on the NHS per capita and proportionate to its revenue than the average OECD nation. You perceive that corporate profits are healthy but both FTSE performance and GDP say firmly “no”. Tax revenue appears high but that is only one side of the ledger, you also have to look at spending. And if taxes are going up, spending is going up, but GDP remains stalled, what does that tell you? Why, sinply that we are spending money as fast as we take it, and not investing it in profitable ventures.
When you understand how it all works and you understand certain exceptions which are slightly different, it’s very easy to intuit national finance; it is just like a bloke running his own chippy. He sells the same amount of haddock and kebab, but takes more and more out of the till, spends it on stuff, and doesn’t reinvest in the business, say in a higher capacity kitchen or more attractive fittings. And every year this goes on the price of things increase and the fittings become worn with use. And he sits there saying “I don’t get it, where does it all go?”
You can see where I am going with this. What is happening in the UK is that, GDP growth has been assumed to be a good thing without any assessment of its holistic affect on society. The negative impacts are typically delayed often deliberately by the organisations; business and the exchequer which are benefitting from what has become an status quo. Smoking, drinking and fast food are examples where we are now understanding that the ongoing welfare cost is or will be greater than the benefits. So we are always playing catchup. We never get on top of the problems: health, social care, housing costs etc. One of the emerging family structures is a couple and a dog – we can’t afford to have children, and a car and a foreign holiday. A dog is cheaper – good for pet food manufacturers and supermarkets and GDP but bad for the demographic balance – not enough children leads to too many old people and too few carers, …and no strawberries :-). So we need immigration. And so we stumble on because we choose not to discourage behaviour which we know WILL be bad in the longterm. The problem is liberal democracy.
Actually, for the last 13 years GDP growth has not been prioritised at all. There has, rather, been a lot of talk about social impact, climate impact, ethical impact, but nobody has been looking at the bottom line.
It’s really very simple: Do you own a car? If yes, is it an environmentally-friendly electric drive? Why not? Do you use any single-use disposable items? Why? Have you replaced all the contents of your home with sustainable, green, ethically-sourced fairtrade substitutes? Why not?
The answer for nations is the same as for individuals.
GDP not prioritized at all. You could have fooled me. The received Tory electoral message is that growth is the pre-requisite for low borrowing, a stable currency and the bigger tax revenues needed for the nice public spending things we all want. Even Rachel Reeves ‘doesn’t see a borrowing route’ out of our problems and we are going to have to have a growth strategy….a proper one that doesn’t assume it will all healthily happen if you slash taxes.
As I understand it the labour plan ( based around house building and investment in ‘green’ technologies ) is respectable and a better bet than hoping a trade deal with India will save us. It will be painful and socialist but necessary for a while since we are pretty much in a wartime situation. Tax incentives and subsidies to do ‘the right thing’. Expect higher road tax and parking charges for wide and heavy SUVs etc.
Aside from environmental choices ( which are about nurturing the Earth we share) what I was driving at is the fundamental weakness of liberal democracy. Enlightened self interest leads downwards if you don’t teach each generation how to be a good neighbour and that when push comes to shove you have to make sacrifices.
Baby boomers, The NHS has gone from consuming 4% of GDP in the 80’s to over 10% today.
The basic state pension has risen at a rate far outstripping inflation, earnings or economic growth and there are more people claiming it than at any time before.
The tax take has actually stayed pretty flat as a % of GDP around 38% which is one of the lowest in the OECD and low earners pay less tax than at anytime in before.
Most of this has been paid for since the 80’s by gutting the defence budget and moving women’s retirement from 60 to 66 in line with men but those savings have all be used up now.
Your comparing to the 80s, I’m comparing to what I have seen in the last decade, its quiet noticeable. Think how major a cut the sdsr 2010 was (OK 13 years).
The economy hasn’t fully recovered from covid but it is now higher and on top of that inflation brings more corporate profits and higher wages both of which result in more tax revenue. Just Google a graph of the revenue per year and its a pretty steep climbing graph.
The NHS and state pension see certainly costing more, but I doubt by they have suddenly jumped that significantly in the last decade, or atheist relative to all the noticeable other cuts.
Look at defense, yes we are getting new equipment but it’s slow and the same was true at any period and yet capability keeps getting cut back, I just don’t get it.
Not HMG job to ensure they have legal support. If they have no money then they only have the rights of locals, there is no separate justice track overseas for British citizens.
The innocent until proven guilty is a legal formula for judges and juries only to have a trial etc
Doesnt apply for media or social media
I’m unsure of the specifics of this case but just for some other perspective, the US recently had a prisoner swap with Russia where we got back a basketball player who had some medically prescribed marijuana vape cartridges in her luggage. In exchange, Russia got infamous arms dealer Victor Bout, “The Merchant Of Death”. I mean, this is as uneven of a swap as you can have so that should be a warning to any civilian of the west: stay the hell out of Russia they could use you for big things. Innocent until proven guilty in a court . . . Yes and not to sound patronizing but perhaps idealistic/unrealistic when dealing with certain countries, as even a superpower often just meets a dead-end or gets its arm twisted.
And if I recall the US let go an opportunity to repatriate a much more deserving case; in my opinion.
I’m not sure how the negotiations over Paul Whelan broke down but they did. I agree that espionage allegations are more on the level of arms dealing than vape cartridges though. The case of Harry Dunn is the one we should all hang our head in shame from on this side of the Atlantic. I think there should have been some punishment no matter who she was and even if it was here in a white-collar prison.
Anne Sarcoolas must have been mortified by what she had done. And frightened of facing the consequences. In the end she did face the English justice system and it worked well – a custodial sentence for a death is appropriate. There are cases here too where extenuating circumstances lead to a sentence being suspended, though the accused might already have spent some time behind bars waiting for trial. She was a lucky lady. She was fortunate that the grieving family were so gracious. Anyway, it’s all done now.
This is a very interesting story, but not in the way most people think. You see Jagtar Singh Johal is an anti-Indian activist and is the mind behind the anti-Indian group ‘Never Forget 1984’ in the UK” which is all about the inter-religious riots which took place across India in Oct 1984 between Hindu and Sikhs (resulting between 5 to 8 thousand deaths in 1984) after Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her Sikh bodyguards, it also saw Air India Flight 182 blown up just off Ireland on route to Canada by Sikh extremists. Gandi was killed due to how she dealt with Sikh extremist Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale who along with a load of heavily armed terrorists took over the Golden Temple demanding their very own country via the Khalistan movement. She tried to deal with this quickly but the Indian army underestimated how heavily armed the rebels were, resulting in the 200 armed terrorists killing between 700 to 800 troops (The Indian officially claim they only lost 83)
Here’s where it becomes Interesting Punjab (the Sikh homeland) is split between India and Pakistan and these past 20 years has seen Islamabad actually allowing Sikh terrorist groups set up shop in Pakistan in which to use as training camps. Which supports their break up India agenda.
So Jagtar Singh Johal a known anti-Indian activist travels to India to get married, which he does, but 3 weeks after getting married he is arrested by the Punjab police.
His supporters claim:
He has been tortured but with no evidence to support their claim.
They state that he was arrested after India was tipped off by the Uk. (yet fail to mention that not only had he been to India a few months before on Holiday, he wasn’t arrested until his third week in India. So some tip off , not only that but the Indian police admit they zeroed in on him via his anti-indian posts on facebook, I quote from the Hindustani times (written on the 15th of Nov 2017)
Targeted killings in Punjab: UK resident Johal was on police radar for a year
Jagtar Singh Johal, 31, a non-resident India settled in the United Kingdom who is now a prime accused in the targeted killing of Hindu right-wing leaders and others in Punjab, was arrested by the state police after extensive analysis of more than 10,000 Facebook accounts of Sikh radicals active in various countries of Europe, sources have told HT. Johal, known widely by the nickname Jaggi, ran an outfit called ‘Never Forget 1984’ in the UK, and was on the radar of the intelligence wing of Punjab Police for the past more than one year. But his role actually came under the scanner after a source in the UK provided the Punjab police with “vague information” about a key man ‘Johal’ as the one of the conspirators in the killings, it is learnt.
Cops involved in the investigation said it was after this information that a battery of 100 intelligence wing staff started scanning through Facebook movement of Johal, who lives in Dumbarton in Scotland’s West Dunbartonshire council area. “We visited every person who had made a comment on fiery posts of Johal endorsing Khalistan and other issues of radicals. Some key radicals were zeroed in on, and by using our sources in the UK we kept on tracking Johal’s links with other groups. It was found that he was actively associated with the Khalistan Liberation Force (KLF) and knew some pro-Khalisanti forces in Pakistan as well,” said a senior officer who did not want to be named. The cops added, though, that this was not the only information based on which Johal was arrested in Rama Mandi town of Jalandhar on November 4. He had arrived in India on October 2 for his marriage in Jalandhar. Johal had also visited India on April 4 this year and recently visited the US, Canada and France too. “His involvement was once again verified from the arrest of Jimmy Singh, a Jammu resident who recently returned to India from the UK after spending many years there and was arrested on November 1 from the Delhi airport,” said an officer.
The arrests were made in a case registered at Baghapurana in Moga in December last year, after a pistol used in a murder crime was linked to Jimmy. Police said Johal and Jimmy had further revealed the names of men linked with the targeted killings. Later, one of those men named KLF chief Harminder Singh Mintoo, who is in jail. Punjab police, meanwhile, termed a campaign launched in the UK and online to save Johal “unfortunate and uncalled for”. On twitter, the hashtag #SaveJaggi is being used for the campaign.
“We have arrested (Jaggi) Johal after thorough investigation. It is unfortunate that some people are running a campaign claiming his innocence. In my career of more than 35 years, I have not found any relative of an accused who admits that his or her relative has committed a crime!” remarked state director general of police (DGP) Suresh Arora.
So regards that campaign which like we see time and time again when somebody travels to the country they openly berate (be it the 5 British Muslim lads in Yemen in 1999 caught red handed planning a terrorist kitted out with rocket-propelled grenades, TNT explosives, anti-tank rockets, mines, laptops and communications equipment. But good old Tony bent over backwards to get them freed, including the son (Mustapha Kamel) and step-son (Mohsin Ghalain) of a certain Abu Hamza after they played the we are British and the government won’t defend us because we are Muslims card.
How about Zaghari-Ratcliffe who travelled to Iran on her Iranian passport after teaching Iranian dissidents to target Iran whilst working at the BBC oh how she became a victim
It’s the same with this geezer, with claims (last year) and I quote:
””Boris Johnson left him to rot for five years””
Err Boris came to power in July 2019 and something happened from Dec that year till 2021 which took up all his time, then we had Afghan, and yet these people pull stupid claims out of thin air in which to support their case.
Got to love the SNP, demanding that London pulls its finger out. But hang on what this taken from the SNP government website.
https://i.postimg.cc/gjmLzDYj/Opera-Snapshot-2023-09-09-041617-www-gov-scot.png
If Scotland has such close links with India, why don’t they speak directly to India. I mean they had no problems sticking 2 fingers up at London by talking to Libya when they released a mass murderer on humanitarians’ grounds in 2009 who despite been at deaths door still managed to outlive Gaddafi when he died in 2012.
I’ve no problems with the Gov been brought to task, but it helps if the full facts are placed on the table and that the throw enough mud until it sticks claims made by supporters designed to generate media attention are checked for their veracity, which as we have seen time and time and time again to be false.
Oh and just to make it clear. My only loyalty is to the Uk and on my dog tags (just checked) it states at the top B Pos followed by my full service number, followed by my surname, followed by my initial (F) followed by CE. I don’t give a toss for any country east of Dover.
Boom and yet again Farouk gives a decent dose of truth, knowledge and research! 👍
Bravo. As always, Farouk says it how it is and I predict yawning silence from the usual suspects.
Me thinks this is the reason why the British government is saying little and the SNO are screaming loudly.
There are over 5 million “British” citizens living around the world outside the UK, many are in fact not British citizens.
Easy way to sort it out is to ban people from having more than 1 passport.
The USA and most European countries do this.
That way next time some third world capital falls over we don’t have 4000 “British” citizens showing up at the embassy gates at the last minute putting diplomatic and service personnel at risk.
People need to understand that you travel at your own risk and if you choose to live in a war zone or a place that does not respect laws it’s not the British government’s job to get you out, especially when that means we have to swap prisoners or pay large sums as with Iran.
I suggest you go check your facts the US allows its citizens to have more then one passport, pretty much every country in Western Europe allows dual citizenship including France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Greece, Ireland and the Netherlands, granted some with restrictions.