The following is a statement by the North Atlantic Council on the damage to gas pipelines.
“The damage to the Nordstream 1 and Nordstream 2 pipelines in international waters in the Baltic Sea is of deep concern. All currently available information indicates that this is the result of deliberate, reckless, and irresponsible acts of sabotage. These leaks are causing risks to shipping and substantial environmental damage. We support the investigations underway to determine the origin of the damage.
We, as Allies, have committed to prepare for, deter and defend against the coercive use of energy and other hybrid tactics by state and non-state actors. Any deliberate attack against Allies’ critical infrastructure would be met with a united and determined response.”
What’s the UK saying?
Liz Truss has said a series of explosions that severely damaged Russia’s undersea Nord Stream gas pipelines were an act of sabotage.
According to the Guardian here:
“In a joint report delivered to the United Nations last week, the Danish and Swedish governments have claimed that the leaks in the Nord Stream gas pipelines, which can carry gas to Germany, were caused by blasts equivalent to the power of “several hundred kilograms of explosive”.
The UK prime minister was updated on developments in the situation unfolding in the Baltic Sea as she engaged in talks with her Danish counterpart, Mette Frederiksen, in Downing Street on Saturday.”
An act of sabotage but by who? Just the usual reason with no finger pointing cause one among the suspects one of them is part of NATO. I think the Russians wouldn’t destroy such a vital piece of infrastructure they spent billions upon billions on and earn billions upon billions from. For once I’m inclined to think they aren’t at fault this time, much as they are wasteful and reckless with their actions. Of course though, this act will definitely change the tune of the war, for the better or worse; I’m not sure.
You really think that? Who else benefits? It’s either Russia, the US or environmental terrorists. If it’s the latter I’m surprised no one has taken responsibility, they are for this and technical reasons very much a big outsider. The US? Why would they destroy pipes that are not operating? Why would they risk being caught doing so which create a wedge between Europe and the US which Russias whole reason for this war was about creating, despite the mis directing rhetoric some buy into about NATO expansion? Why would they time it a few days before the Norway to Germany/Poland… Read more »
Very well said 👍
Exactly. You know when you are hearing those well known purveyors of the truth, the Kremlin and JohninMK peddling the same myth about American involvement in the destruction of NS that it’s bullshit . Attacking the pipeline that Russia says is nominally theirs gives them a pretext to attack more western infrastructure, and false flag attacks and pretexts are an inherent part of Russian maskirovka and strategy. We can safely file the accusations of US involvement in this into the same bin as bio labs in Ukraine, nuclear weapons being based in Ukraine, nazis in Ukrainian government, Ukrainian ‘genocide ‘… Read more »
Well, I was not aware of these new pipelines so your point does stand. Though in the short term this may lead to higher prices for the consumer and Europe, your point about the lower prices with these new pipelines seems likely to be correct, much like how many nations have demonstrated a satellite destroying capability by destroying their own.
The Norway Poland pipeline is not extra capacity to the EU. It is a spur off the already operating Europipe 2 that runs down to N Holland. It just diverts some of its capacity east to Poland, it is also small at only about 20% of the capacity of either NS1 or 2. Norway has already said that it will not reduce its prices below spot and neither of these pipelines has the capacity to influence spot prices in Europe, only NS2 could have done that. Incidentally, there is not a lot of north south pipeline capacity in the EU… Read more »
Hey John, been a long time!
Tell me how the Russian advance you predicted from Kherson to Odesa is going?…
😂
He won’t, he’s to scared as not allowed! I’ve asked him many times but he just shakes his handbag about!
Seems sensible to me for Norway to make the most out of their assets.
I am not sure about the wisdom of Russia closing it’s pipelines to the west let alone destroying them. Is it perhaps time for Russia to return to the strategies which would be more associated with Gorbachev. Freedom is strength.
Gazprom is now emptying NS2/B pipeline so that it can be tested for soundness. It looks like it survived the attack and may be put back in service if needed.
Yaaaaaaawn cheers for the Putin version!
I believe Blinken said it provided an opportunity for the US to sell gas to Europe. That’s lucky.
On the face of it, Ukraine would benefit most from this act of “terrorism.”
However, I would not remove the old KGB/STASI Colonel from the suspect list just yet. Until he makes his next move. It has the faint smell of a chess players attempt at maskirovka. Escalation is now almost assured.
There is of course the real possibility of an external entity, wishing to cause more chaos in Europe. Who else would benefit from energy austerity in Europe and a fractured NATO vs Russia full scale war?
I can think of two or three, without too much head scratching.
With poor performance from Russia’s land forces in Ukraine, it’s obvious it could cause havoc by using its substantial submarine assets against targets outside of Ukrainian borders. Putin did warn the West that any military support for Ukraine would be punished and using covert naval forces could be one such instrument. What benefit such actions could help Russia, is difficult to see, other than the EU having to resort to Russian energy as more sabotage broadens across more pipelines. These are the most worrying times since the Second World War and the delicate process of keeping the lid on the… Read more »
Russia has other assets equally capable of causing havoc, at a fraction of the cost of it’s submarine or nuclear forces. If Vladimir Vladimirovich chooses to employ them. The stage is already cleverly set. Why do you think Putin called out Ukraine for conducting BW research on behalf of the US? He exploited the revealed US role in the BW research of the CCP in Wuhan. Simultaneously planting the seeds of an accidental release leading to epidemic or pandemic in Ukraine. Are you familiar with old soviet BW efforts, their doctrine for use and stockpiles. This would be a good… Read more »
Oh dear, you believe the fairy stories about the US engineering bio-weapons in the Ukraine…
While I have your attention, I have a bridge here in London for sake. Would you like to buy it?
Sean, you missed the point completely. Old Vlad brought it up. Why?
Because he’s a liar who’ll vomit up any preposterous lie and fairytale to try and justify his despicable actions.
Yes a liar who produces a ton of facts at the UN and on a subject that was admitted to in US Congress.
Gosh John I’m amazed you’re finally admitting your boss is a liar. Future doesn’t bode well for you though, Putin takes a dim view of those he regards as traitors. I’d be careful of touching door handles or drinking tea if I were you!
(As for the ‘facts at the UN’, an even bigger pile of bull than Colin Powell’s justification for Iraq.)
Oh dear I can see a flying turret for him very soon!
Well done, admitting the problem is the first step! Now put your handbag down and let us know your thoughts on the smooth process of Russia and its recruitment efforts of more I’ll trained Nazi peasants?
Be careful who you call Nazi peasants. Neither side in this conflict is without shame or blame. If anything, the use of that term reflects very badly on the Kiev Ukrainians, particularly the militias. The people we have chosen to support. Probably the lesser of two evils but in my humble opinion, it’s a close call. Remember, it’s the the Ukrainian Nationalists who wear Nazi paraphernalia and hero worship the memory of Stepan Bandera. Using the term plays into the hands of Putin and his propaganda spinning minions. That is why he uses it in his speeches to the Russian… Read more »
How can calling the Russians Nazis soon into the hands of Russian propaganda? Like I said Nazi peasants! And the excuse of Ukrainian Nazis as (one of) a pre-texts for invasion is very weak, as if that’s the case Putin would have invaded Russsias football league. Russia is full of Nazis, operate in a way very much like the Nazis, and it’s dumb fuckwits in the army go about their business like the Dirlewanger Bde. And to operate as such you require brainwashed shit eaters or dumb presents. So, I stand by my assertion that the Russian rapist military are… Read more »
Let’s play a game, please condemn this illegal invasion of a sovereign territory namely Ukraine, condemn Putins actions, condemn the rape, torture and murder of civilians by Putins sad peasant army, condemn the illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014, and publicly state that Russia should withdraw back to pre 2014 start lines, and then be investigated for crimes against humanity/war crimes. Then condemn JohninMKs lack of condemnation then we can play. Cheers!
Of course I condemn an illegal invasion of a soverign state by an animal such as Putin. He is the product of his KGB/STASI training and very likely a sociopath. A very high functioning utterly ruthless example of the type. Given the chance, I’d slot him without raising my heartrate and disrupting my sight picture. Which likely includes me in that catagory. As I’ve already explained, good propaganda has a verifiable truth at it’s core. There are true old fashioned NAZIS in positions of power within Ukraine and that is a verified fact! It is also true that those thugs… Read more »
Can’t argue with that 👍
Others have underestimated Vladimir Vladimirovich and paid the price. He plays the game well.
It’s not vital infrastructure, the Nordstream pipelines lost all financial value of soon as Europe announced it planned to phase out buying Russian gas. Plenty of low-life landlords have torched their own properties over the years when they’ve lost all value.
A very valid succinct argument, for some Russian player destroying it. Either ordered by Putin or one of the oil oligarchs. Perhaps even a militant Russian faction for their own reasons.
Short of an insurance company payout, which is very unlikely. What do you think they hope to gain by the act and how?
Basically what will happen next?
Don’t be so sure, both pipelines are insured. Though I think after 2014 western companies stopped providing cover for Nordstream 1. Russia has demonstrated it can attack and destroy undersea gas pipelines at will; whilst having deniable plausibility. There are numerous pipelines from Norway, plus interconnects under the North Sea, not to mention the pipes from rigs. Europe’s gas infrastructure will be stretched this winter as-is, without any unexpected failures… However he probably doesn’t need to do this. Russia was still contracted to supply gas to Europe this winter. He can now claim ‘force majeure’ for not delivering on this… Read more »
To demonstrate a capacity and willingness to sabotage undersea infrastructure.
They own it so its destruction is the same as destroying your own car, its yours, you can do with it what you want.
If it is not yours it is an attack on a NATO members critical national infrastructure.
Fibre optics, electricity cables etc.
I wonder what else was installed at the same time as the pipelines, was that the target of the sabotage?.
The pipes are closed, and Germany will not be reverse ferreting.
Paying for building the pipes is a sunk cost for Russia, so no reason not to do it or not to do it.
Much of the sunk cost was paid by EU companies. Roughly $2B Russia and $7B EU.
Well spotted!
Has anyone considered that the pipeline could have had a secondary function. We all know by now what the transatlantic communication cables were used for during the Cold War. If you do not know, look it up.
Why would you want to run communication cables along the middle of the Baltic when you can more cheaply and more easily do it (and maintain it) on land?
Agreed. But laying a pipeline would be an excellent opportunity to install modern acoustic and other detection equipment to monitor submarine/surface traffic. It’s less of a matter if it was done. More which sides devices have been targeted. If such hypothetical devices exist in the first place.
The US was warning about this plan months ago. The Russians did it so they can claim need for sanction relief to fix the pipelines. It’s a further continuation of the gas turbine saga.
Here’s an idea. EU STOP BUYING YOUR FUELS FROM RUSSIA! I know that makes too much sense so it won’t happen. That leftists wacko Merkel enslaved her beloved EU to Putin years ago. On top of that she castrated the German military. Now the EU suffers.
Its not that simple. Take oil, the largest German refinery, as are many others, is optimised for Ural blend crude and it is a large and expensive operation to convert it to another. Also there is nowhere near the tanker docking capability to replace a pipeline’s worth of capacity. Germany’s success over the past decades was based on access to low cost energy, that has now been stopped for the foreseeable future. With steel, glass, fertilser and other heavy industrry shutting down Germany is in serious problems on top of the lack of gas to heat homes this winter. We… Read more »
Indeed. This is why germany is investing so heavily into renewables but those are simply not there yet.
As a German I believe Russia destroyed the Pipelines. It is well suited for a covert Operation. The US Opposed the Pipeline (with good reason) for years so putin Trolls will try to blame them.
Lots of efforts underway to try to destabilise germany. Not going to Happen, however.
I admire your confidence but why do you think that you are not going to be destabilised this winter?
Germany should have retained its nuclear capacity. at least until it had replaced fossil with renewables.
It still has 3 operating, wait to see if they shut them on schedule by January.
Does that please you?
Germany should have realised how stupid depending on Russia for it’s energy would be. The reunified woke Germans need more reliable energy sources than wind and solar. In he absence of geothermal, some form of nuclear is the ONLY option for them. Reactors that close down when the unexpected happens is the way forward, until some boffin cracks the fusion puzzle.
Putin may have taught them a valuable lesson to go with Mad Merkels suicidal immigration debacle.
More yaaaawn shite! Any comments on the current tactical picture on the ground in Ukraine and your ongoing recruitment process in Nazi Russia?
Russia sells oil at inflated price to China, China resells that oil at an even more inflated price to us. We still get much more expensive Russian oil but the politicians can say we’re not buying it from Russia.
If these pipelines were full of gas, then surely this means they were turned off at the German end and not the Russian end ? I’m not really an expert on gas pipelines , but if the “Gas Board” ( I know I’m old ) cut me off I wouldn’t expect to be able to turn the gas cooker on and cook a meal. I would expect NO gas to be in my internal gas pipes. Both these pipelines have not been providing gas for a while, so why are they full of gas under the Baltic ? I would… Read more »
But Civvy your gas pipes in your home do not contain some 200,000 tons of compressed gas. NS 1 and NS 2 do. That’s why so much gas was released. They are stonking great big pipelines carrying vast amounts of a gas beneath the sea. Even if severed it would take a while for all of that gas to eventually escape. More interesting is that the destruction of these pipelines probably means even if there was a change of leadership and an improvement in relations between Russia and the EU, the EU can never again turn to cheap energy imports… Read more »
Worth a note that the EU were vehemently opposed to building NS2, but Merkel faced them down.
Indeed and the reason she did that was she knew that to maintain Germany’s production capability she had to have access to cheap NG whilst they first shut the nuclear power stations and second cranked up renewable supplies. This premature loss of supply and associated price increase puts all of industry in Europe in a precarious position,
Trying to make unreliable “green renewable energy” work, is how woke Germany ended up in this mess. Rather than cleaning up fossil fuel and making nuclear energy production safer.
Almost as stupid as thinking a peace dividend meant they could slash their armed forces. Without first bringing Russia and the Warsaw Pact nations into a defensive alliance.
Now they are stuck needing to rearm, without an affordable reliable energy source with which to power their industry. Putin must be laughing his socks off at their lack of strategic thinking. Unbelievable stupidity.
Just glad no one has put a match to it! I wonder if the Baltic around these pipelines is actually monitored in anyway? Bit late now, but surely there’s some security going on down there?
Putting a match to it might have helped. The resulting CO2 would produce a lower greenhouse effect than the escaped methane.
I know. I’m not stupid. No need to be condescending. My point was there is (was) still lots of gas in the pipe. If Russia was never turning the gas back on, then unless they could reverse the gas and suck it out, what would stop Germany from doing the same at their end and sucking the gas out ? If Russia had loads of gas in that pipeline , then blowing it up and leaking it out and filling the pipe with sea water would stop anyone else having it, if they can’t have it. That and has been… Read more »
Interesting announcement by Wallace.
Reuters
Britain to acquire two specialist ships to protect underwater infrastructure
One commercial ship to be purchased this year and another purpose built in UK.
This is the actual page on Reuters- seems first is an off the shelf purchase. the 2nd sometime in the future. Alongside a lot of the other vessels the RN is supposed to be building albeit with dreadful plodding slowness.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/britain-acquire-two-specialist-ships-protect-underwater-infrastructure-2022-10-02/
Thanks for the link. The return of MROSS.
HMS Challenger??? Last seen mining diamonds for De Beers off Namibia….
A bit old in the tooth but hey !
Nice to see that they’re actually purchasing two not just one!
Yep. It’s a strong hint that they think the threat to the undersea cables is serious.
Hopefully some heavy duty UUVs are on the way soon for the RN for this sort of thing too.
It seems like the only way we’ll be able to increase our ‘Sub’ force anytime soon. But we’re talking about MoD procurement so 😥😢
More interesting because of the timing. In place of a propper public response to the pipeline debacle. I’d like to be a fly on the wall at cabinet meetings.
Apologies for the change in topic, but news coming out of Kherson (a lot of it from many sourses) state that the Russian northern line has totally collapsed and they have pulled back over 20 miles to the town of Dudchany. With Russian sourses claiming that they have pulled back even furhter to the city of Beryslav.
https://i.postimg.cc/7LqqwYqq/Opera-Snapshot-2022-10-02-211630-twitter-com.png
Whatever the story, the news tomorrow is going to be very interesting
If that’s true then the Ukrainians have clearly breached all defensive lines and the whole thing is bust open. Lets hope that is true and the Ukrainian army can advance rapidly. I think the Russian’s are on the point of collapse as a cohesive force, least in the North. Hence Putin’s desperation to call up 300,000 reserves (mostly middle aged men) and to get them into uniform and training pronto- they are all going to be crashed deployed to Ukraine very very soon. In which case there is going to be a hell of a lot of probably Russian casualties… Read more »
Mr Bell wrote: “”In which case there is going to be a hell of a lot of probably Russian casualties very soon.”” From what I have seen on social media they have lost a lot of men around lyman (that includes pictures of lots of dead bodies and prisoners) Moscow is selling the line that only 500 men were in the city and that a rescue mission pulled them out before the Ukrainains entered. Meanwhile the Ukrianians havent stopped and continue to advance to the North and North east. That brings me to the main topic of this thread the… Read more »
Hitler used to throw paddies regularly (and Stalin, I think) when things weren’t going his way.
Hi Farouk, there’s still the big worry that even if Ukraine is completely cleared out of Russian’s nutter Putin might still want to lob missiles, rockets, shell’s over the boundary fence! Maybe nuclear too. He really needs his lights knocked out considering he’s sending 1000s to their deaths. They don’t seem to give any damn for their own kind. Bloody inhuman, literally!!
Putin appears to be becoming a latter day King Canute. He only just announces regions of Ukraine are now part of Russia only for the Russian forces there to immediately collapse and surrender ground to Ukrainian forces.
It’s farcical, and he increasing looks like a clown.
Might be a nice time soon to blow up the Kerch Bridge, one less supply/escape route for the Russian forces! Strength and quickspeed to victory for Ukraine 🇺🇦, its forces, its people and its president!
OTOH if they run away they don’t have to be fought.
I’m expecting an offensive towards Melitopol to cut the land bridge at some point.
Once they were cut off from their supply chains this was always on the cards and the Ukr are playing a blinder with their strategy 👍
The pipeline has a number of contracts for the supply of gas attached to it. Russia would be liable for the non delivery of the gas .
Now that a Force Majeure has happened they can say they have no control over the contract breach so they are not liable.
The only other options for gas going West is through Poland and Ukraine pipes that are I believe already turned down/off.
There is definitely that angle. I suspect more will be know once the seabed settles down enough to examine the blast patterns. If we see pipeline fragments blown out from in internal detonation that is likely to be very telling. I am asuming that just like our own pipelines from the North Sea they have robotic vehicles that are used to check the pipeline periodically for damage. It wouldn’t take much work to have one of those tow in a demolition charge. Heck of a lot easier than using a very large submarine in reasonably shallow waters. Extremely easy when… Read more »
The force majeure is the other way round. The NS2 contract was/is ‘take or pay’ with the Germans, now saving somewhere around $1B pa in payments as they are no longer voluntary non takers. NS1 AFAIK was a ‘pay if take’ contract so no change. The Polish pipe Yamal was taken over by them and whilst able to pass gas is not in use. The Ukrainian gas and oil pipelines are still in use but one supply spur that goes through Luhansk was shut by the Ukrainians. Turkstream is operating normally but has had its license revoked so repair etc… Read more »
Any comments, as you always liked to post prior, on the good news stories of the spectacular invasion of Ukraine, and the current tactical situation? Nope, of course not, but your opinion on the current recruitment efforts by Nazi Russia would be most interesting.
One of the big conundrums of this is rather akin to the assassination of Dugins daughter. No one in “MSM” or any government seems to point a finger, no one seems to be crowing “look what we did”. For the Russians it seems a pointless act. For some western corporate entities it makes a lot of sense. And Biden did crow once about it “never coming online”. And we know most of those squeaky clean American politicians are as corrupt as hell. Just throw that into your analysis and it will make you, or should, think deeply. Energy wars are… Read more »
🤣
Let’s just say that the sabotage of Nord stream is a demonstration of ‘look we can do it and are more than capable of doing the same thing to your communication cable and gas lines.
“several hundred kilograms of explosive”
That sounds like a lot of explosives to attack a pipeline.