MP Penny Mordaunt has proposed that some of the foreign aid budget be used to build hospital ships to provide humanitarian aid in disaster zones.

In a letter to Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson, a copy of which has been seen by the Daily Mail and reported on here, Mordaunt claims that the ships could take the place of vessels such as RFA Mounts Bay, which has been stationed in the Caribbean during the hurricane season.

Mordaunt is the Member of Parliament for Portsmouth North. She has served as Secretary of State for International Development since 2017 and Minister for Women and Equalities since April 2018. Before becoming an MP, Mordaunt worked in business and communications and is currently the only female MP who is a Royal Naval Reservist.

Currently the UK uses Bay class vessel RFA Mounts Bay in a disaster relief role and the contribution of the vessel and hew crew cannot be understated, however, she was wasn’t designed for this task.

RFA Mounts Bay in the Carribean last year.

The Bay class are operated by the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and are officially designated as ‘Landing Ship Docks’. Each Bay class vessel is capable of carrying up to 24 Challenger tanks or 150 military trucks in 1,150 linear metres of space. The UK operates three Bay class vessels after selling the fourth to Australia.

RFA Mounts Bay deployed to the Caribbean to provide support during the 2017 hurricane season. She was tasked to assist in Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief operations at Anguilla, British Virgin Islands, and Turks and Caicos Islands in the aftermath of Hurricane Irma in September 2017.

The UK can also call upon RFA Argus as according to the Royal Navy, the principal role of Argus is to serve as a Primary Casualty Receiving Ship (PCRS). The vessel also once served as an Aviation Training Ship however a ramp for casualty transport replaced one of the aircraft hangars and the PCRS role became the ship’s primary function.

RFA Argus

According to the Ministry of Defence, as the ship is armed and is not painted in the required white with red crosses, the Geneva Convention prevents her from being officially classified as a hospital ship.

Despite that, the vessel has a fully equipped 100-bed medical complex on board, which can be tailored to deliver treatment afloat. The vessel has sailed before to support potential humanitarian operations during the hurricane season, with a primary mission to support the British Overseas Territories should they require assistance but again, she was not designed for this.

Argus started life as the commercially owned and operated Contender Bezant, a container ship. In 1985 she was converted to an aviation training ship at Harland & Wolff, Belfast, with extended accommodation, a flight deck, aircraft lifts and naval radar communications suites, say the Royal Navy.

Would a new, dedicated vessel be a better solution? Maybe.

Last year, a team of British military medics joined the USNS Mercy (the image above is the Mercy, with a silly bit of modification to the image, of course) to deliver health care and aid to Asian and Pacific nations.

According to a press release issued by the Royal Navy at the time:

“It’s only the second time Brits have taken part in the deployment. Back in 2016, five RN dental personnel spent five weeks treating the mouths of Vietnamese and inhabitants of the Republic of Palau. Two years down the line and not only is the UK involved in the mission, it’s in charge of half of it.

Peter Olive, who’s previously commanded frigate HMS Argyll and minehunter Ledbury, is the deputy commander of Pacific Partnership – the first time in its 13-year history that a Brit has been given the role. Captain Olive will take charge of the other ship assigned to the deployment, the fast-cat ferry USNS Fall River.”

The Mercy is a converted oil tanker, typically crewed by 70 civilian and military personnel – rising to nearly 1,300 souls on front-line operations. The vessel has beds for 1,000 patients – making her similar in size and with all the facilities you’d expect to find in a major city hospital.

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Tom
Guest

The issue I see here is that some of the territories listed are Overseas Territories of Britain as for not foreign and so you cannot use said budget for that purpose.

Mr Bell
Guest

Why not Tom? Anything that ensures the aid budget works harder to deliver some tangible benefits to the UK has to be applauded.
This topic is exactly what many people who post on this site has been asking for for years. Use the aid budget to rebuild the RFA and RN helicopter carrier force label them as disaster relief vessels that just so happen to have a useful secondary role.
With a £14 billion per year budget this could easily be done with just 5-10% of that massive giveaway.

Jack
Guest
Jack

The regulations changed in 2017 to allow the foreign aid budget to be used to support British oversees territories in times of crisis.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/news/90272/uk-can-now-send-foreign-aid-disaster-hit-british-overseas

Andy
Guest
Andy

Great idea and build all support ships in the UK. See my petition at
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235377

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

i’d disagree with that, the allocation of funding for such ships, is done through the foreign office, foreign aid and benefits from it ,is subject to a yearly assessment, the monies are used by whatever is identifiable within this nation’s political climate is at the time. the aid has been used to build hospitals in africa, why not for humanitarian purposes at home?

MattG
Guest
MattG

The rules were changed recently regarding using disaster relief and long term reconstruction aid for overseas territories – regardless of their wealth. Whether or not this could include assets for reacting to such disasters is the question but suspect may be the case.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46052502

David E Flandry
Guest
David E Flandry

True that some of the ships would go to assist Oversea Territories, but not all. The UK routinely assists now-independent nations such as Belize, Bahamas, and Jamaica as well as French and Dutch territories in the Caribbean Sea. There is probably enough wiggle room to enable at least part of the cost of hospital and disaster relief ships to come from the foreign aid budget. Its worth a try. (Forgiveness is easier than permission. )

Billythefish
Guest
Billythefish

An excellent idea – I would be far less critical of the foreign aid budget if it included funding for this type of humanitarian work.

1. Build the ship(s) in the UK
2. Marine Crew them with RFA
3. Mission equipment provided by UK companies
4. NHS Doctors and nurses utilised on a secondment basis in and out on rotation
5. Not just disaster relief but medical care provision to West Africa/Caribbean

CAPEX for each – 150M GBP per ship – build 3
OPEX annually – 15-20M GBP

Against a 14 Billion GBP annual budget this should be quite affordable for the DFID.

andyreeves
Guest
andyreeves

the u.s operates 25 mercy class ships for this purpose

PKCasimir
Guest
PKCasimir

What? The US has two hospital ships – the Mercy and the Comfort. The Mercy is in good shape but the Comfort needs to be replaced since a refit seems to be too costly. The Navy has no idea what to do next and, frankly, probably can’t find the money to do anything. Comfort probably does not have that long.

Cam Hunter
Guest
Cam Hunter

You retard! Where did you get 25 American hospital ships?? Lol

Keithdwat
Guest

Is that part of trump’s 350 fleet plan???

Derek
Guest
Derek

Retard? Have you ever thought of being a reasonable, pleasant and engaging kind of person to others who make a mistake? No? Thought not!

Ian
Guest
Ian

Totally Agree!

DRS
Guest
DRS

God yes! Have written to the DFID etc before with exactly the same suggestion. Build two of them at least and have them stationed in disaster areas and when needed they can be repurposed in time of national crisis at home or in Gulf of Mexico arc. Buy all the helicopters etc from them from Yeovil and have hen manned by navy, airforce and army when deploying to disaster zones. Cheaper than sending an aircraft carrier and also dual use if ever needed. It helps support U.K. industry and you ca. Pack it with best of British industry and use… Read more »

John Clark
Guest
John Clark

Absolutely agree with the above, what an excellent direct use for our aid money …

I would love to see three such vessels built, allowing two to be deployed and fully operational.

Excellent idea…

Stuart W
Guest
Stuart W

Has this not been kicking about since the Falklands War when a dedicated hospital ship was one of ‘the lessons learned’. There was even a project team at Abbey Wood at one time? Last time I heard the project was on hold because of legal problems with Geneva Convention, states hospital ships cannot carry crypto, as we know any crew member or medic with a mobile can have this classified a crypto? May be needs to be classified as a merchant ship?

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

there was talk after the falklands that a new colour designation other than white, might be worked by the u.n. yellow was the consensus but the current arrangements should be enough, as they are tried and tested during the falklands canberra carried out the role superbly. but it was clear that a dedicated ship with a sizeable capacity would be far more preferable , the mistral class h.lp is fitted with a big hospital with all the mod cons you’d expect for your nearest one.kitting out argus cost millions, at the time it came from the navy budget, now, i’d… Read more »

Steve Taylor
Guest
Steve Taylor

My friend Argus. Bless her. 🙂

Helions
Guest
Helions

A great way to enhance the UK’s soft power IMO. A comparison view of the USN’s two large hospital ships.

https://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4625&tid=200&ct=4

This is NOT a snide question. Does the UK even have a yard that could support the like conversion of large oil tankers? I believe GD NASSCO in San Diego does our conversions from Alaska Class tankers to ESBs and such.

Cheers!

Billythefish
Guest
Billythefish

Hi Helions,

Certainly they do and they have done frequently in the past – generally topside conversions for VLCCs to FPSO’s (on the Tyne).

However I would propose build from scratch.

Helions
Guest
Helions

Thank you Billy.
Building from scratch would probably be a good idea both jobwise and to meet the latest maritime standards (double hull etc). Having said that, there are probably a lot of bargains out there tanker wise. This last year saw record numbers of tankers being sent to scrap by companies seeing a reduced demand for oil. However, many of those hulls are probably pretty worn out. It would be a boost for the British ship building industry either way with a lot of well paying jobs being created.

Cheers!

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

Tankers are scrapped for many reasons. The price of Oil is a driver as the profits from shipping it need to be maximised. New tankers and updated tankers are getting many upgrades to increase fuel efficiency. Paint, props, Silver bubble generators, shrouded prop hubs even sails etc…they all add up to big 5-20% fuel savings. The decline of FFO ( Cheap!) as a fuel source and the use of Marine Dieso ( Expensive!) are the drivers. Other drivers are SO2 scrubber fits and ballast water processing fits which are IMO requirements . If a ship cannot get these conversions then… Read more »

Helions
Guest
Helions

Very enlightening!

Thanks as always Gunbuster.

Cheers!

GWM
Guest
GWM

Problem is the RFA like most of the forces have a shortage of manpower so who is going to crew them.

Billythefish
Guest
Billythefish

Hi GWM,

Just recruit – there is not usually a shortage of merchant marine officers for the RFA as they are civilians that come and go from other shipping and offshore companies.

GWM
Guest
GWM

Think they have been doing this for a while but still shortages hence a number of RFA’s being tied up for long periods,the new tankers seem to have priority.

Billythefish
Guest
Billythefish

Sounds more like warm stacking to keep costs down than a shortage of crew. When the ships are not required – stack them to keep costs down. Everyone does it.

Levi Goldsteinberg
Guest
Levi Goldsteinberg

If she means to outright replace Mounts Bay, then absolutely no way at all. If it’s to relieve Mounts Bay and other Bay class ships of their humanitarian duty, then I’m all for it

BB85
Guest
BB85

By the time the ships will be built the Bay Class will likely be due for replacement themselves anyway. For the number of large support ships the RN operate its hard to understand why the government cannot commit to a steady build cycle that repeats every 25 years. Its not complicated the government just like to make short terms savings by no ordering anything for 4 years which breaks the cycle and results in capability gaps unless the ships are ordered overseas like the Tide class.

Steve R
Guest
Steve R

I read that as, to replace Mount Bay in the humanitarian role, rather than to actually replace her. I could be wrong.

Nigel Collins
Guest
Nigel Collins

More funding should be provided from the foreign aid budget to cater for projects like this as well as providing additional transport aircraft, helicopters, and engineers on the ground. Replacing ships like RFA Mount Bay with newer ships would equally be welcome. £18 billion allocated this year alone while we bugger about delaying the in-service date of our Type 26’s (2027 for the first) and skimp on the required number originally asked for. Any news on a decent Anti Ship Missile capability??? Or can’t we afford it????? If you want young people to join our armed forces, give them the… Read more »

Stephen
Guest
Stephen

If it supports British shipbuilding I’m all for the idea, I also think we should build a new royal yacht for the same reason.

expat
Guest
expat

I agree with the concept but why a dedicated hospital ship, why not something that could be requisitioned if required? Perhaps one dedicated hospital ship, 1 similar to Ocean for lifting and 1 similar to the Bay class.

Also surely the stationing should be depending on needs, if UK hospitals were stretched during a bad winter then the NHS should have use of it/them.

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

It would not work as well as an NHS resource (but good idea) as you need the capacity close at hand not parked somewhere on the coast, although it could be used in a port town, just no help elsewere.

Not sure I’d want to staff it with NHS staff either, it’s lovely for staff to have a busmans holiday, but creates merry hell when your ED consultant fucjpks off for a bit of fun etc.

expat
Guest
expat

Most UK major cities are on the coast or estuary. I’d only suggest this in crisis situations, we don’t need to have a 100’s of hospital beds ‘just in case’ that’s really inefficient and not good use of funds so a ship or ships such as this would give surge capacity when needed.

Mr Bell
Guest

Just a question Jonathon- no criticism intended and you are entitled to your opinion. Have you ever done disaster relief work? I have and it is often difficult, stressful, long-hours and exceptionally emotionally, physically draining- hardly a holiday dealing with poly-trauma patients in makeshift substandard settings. I applaud any NHS staff willing to give up their annual leave (holiday entitlement) to go off in their own time (holiday entitlement) to support efforts at helping those most at need.

OOA
Guest
OOA

If this is approved one could almost say that Gavin will have spent a Penny..

captain P Wash.
Guest
captain P Wash.

Taking the NHS to the World rather than the World coming to the NHS !!!!! Seriously though, Great Idea and a great Advert for “Global Britain”.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Spot on. Again.

DRS
Guest
DRS

Exactly!
+industry stimulus
+help keep skills current =cheaper complex war ships
+jobs
+soft power projection
+nhs staff extra options and opportunities to learn other skills
+helps people that needed it
+dual use could be requisitioned for national crisis (extra hospital or two in any coastal U.K. city) or in times of war

Can’t think of minuses!

Mr Bell
Guest

Another good post by our reliable Captain.

Basil
Guest

I think the polititians have become a little confused as to the difference between Mt’s Bay and Argus. Mt’s Bay is an amphibious assault ship presently assisting in disaster relief and narcotics interdiction, here are no medical facilities other than a normal size sick bay, to replace her with a hospital ship is out of context. Yet Argus is basically a combat casaulty ship ( secondary to aviation training ship) her wartime role would be to enter the war zone and act as initial recieving ship, defend herself whilst treating snd dispatching casualties to hospitsl facilities including dedicated hospitsl ships,… Read more »

captain P Wash.
Guest
captain P Wash.

As you said Basil, A Dedicated Hospital Ship is totally different to the Mounts and Argus. Great to have In addition but not as a replacement/replacements. The three Mounts can carry two dozen C2’s each for a start.

Long Time
Guest
Long Time

I’m all for the idea but just don’t see how a hospital ship (by Geneva definition) can exist anymore surely a laptop or phone can easily count a secure communication. IMO to do the role the MP is suggesting we essentially need a supersized Argus preferably with 400-500 medical beds, with a small well-deck and Ro-Ro facilities too maximise the number of ways you can get aid ashore. Have to come up with a snappy acronym Disaster, Helicopter, Dock, Vehicle, Medical, Relief, Ship DHDVMRS ?

DRS
Guest
DRS

Needs to be in addition not instead of…

Gary
Guest
Gary

Awesome idea! Will help public confidence as we hear many reports of money being lost due to fraud etc. If we can keep see the tangible benefits then we know that the people who need it are getting the support they need.

It would be cool if the design facilitated swing role, for use by the RN/RM at times of National emergency.

Geoffrey Roach
Guest
Geoffrey Roach

Absolutely brilliant idea that is well overdue. Well done Penny. I can’t see why anybody should object to this proposal. An extension of real overseas aid U.K. soft power. An announcement as we “go Brexit” would be perfect. Let’s back her up guys.,Only needs an email.

JohnHartley
Guest
JohnHartley

Great if it happens. A step in the right direction. As well as a hospital ship, I would like to see an engineering base ship paid for by DfID. Something that can carry building materials, cranes, diggers, transport helicopters, fire engines. All the stuff you need to rebuild a disaster zone. A good dual use bit of kit.

captain P Wash.
Guest
captain P Wash.

Sort of like an Amphibious Ford Transit ?

Ken
Guest
Ken

They managed to spend quarter of a billion of the foreign aid budget on an airport for St Helena that barely works, so there should be an issue using for the benefit of other oversea territories in the form of a humanitarian aid/hospital ship.

captain P Wash.
Guest
captain P Wash.

It works fine, It’s just in the wrong Location with the wrong type of Weather and not enough cargo or Passengers !!!!

Robert Blay
Guest

https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2018/01/aiding-and-abetting-vital-importance-of.html

For those interested in the reasons why we spend so much on foreign aid, please read the above article written by an ex serving RN officer, it is extremely well written and balanced, it certainly opened my eye’s as to why we spend What we do.

Ian
Guest
Ian

Should come with assurances that all vessels will be built in UK yards.

Great Idea, targeting funds directly where needed, in such areas as disaster relief…
What’s also stopping us from purchasing more A400Ms under the same proposal?

DRD
Guest
DRD

2/3 A400 as a rapidly deplorable hospital, or eye treatment centre as per that charity. Use as much as possible U.K. equipment, stick big U.K. aid sign in the side….

David E Flandry
Guest
David E Flandry

Rather have rapidly deployable A400s than deplorable ones. 🙂

Ant Miller
Guest
Ant Miller

A very interesting suggestion, but I don’t know that the Mercy’s are a good starting point. For one thing even the US navy, with it’s prodigious resources, can only afford 2 (not 25 as some have suggested) and notably, they’re often put at extended readiness (aka mothballs). What’s perhaps needed is a specific joined up consideration of what is needed in the caribbean region generally, and perhaps there is a single ship (or group of ships) which could if carefully designed as a system, along with local basing, could provide suitable support. What I’m suggesting is that rather than post… Read more »

Expat
Guest
Expat

I’ve said before why was the MoD the only department tasked with supporting an industrial strategy to rebuild an industry. So will the unions get behind this idea seeing it’s being proposed by a Tory MP.

DRS
Guest
DRS

Let’s press the unions and write to DFID etc. Same reason why a new Royal Yacht is needed. Soft power projection, jobs creation etc etc.

Pacman27
Guest
Pacman27

Couldn’t agree more with this suggestion apart from the fact DFID should be paying the RFA to operate these assets on behalf of DFID. These ships need to be based upon a Karel Doorman design so that we can use them for solid stores/amphibious/LHD’s. Whilst we are at it the fleet of Puma’s should be sold to DFID to operated from these ships and be replaced in military service by new Merlins. The RFA could operate 11 Karel Doorman style ships for the Navy and DFID providing a huge level of flexibility. As I have said on another thread, we… Read more »

Alex
Guest
Alex

I thought that the US Navy wasn’t able to afford to run ships like this? If they can’t then surely this seems like a waste of money

captain P Wash.
Guest
captain P Wash.

Pacman, Where the Heck you been ?

Ron
Guest
Ron

Its about time that an MP used their brains. However I have often wondered if a full blown hospital ship is the best resource or would it be better to buy HMS Albion and Bulwark from the RN and convert them into disaster relief vessels with a major onboard hospital. The money that the RN get for these vessels could then be reinvested towards two-three LHDs. Then again two to three hospital ships built in the UK would be good for the ship building industry and a good use of the international aid budget while promoting UK soft power. I… Read more »

Robert Blay
Guest

Using the armed forces for such roles helps keep the budget with the armed forces. I’d rather Albion and Bulwark be kept in service for what they were designed for.

Nick Bowman
Guest
Nick Bowman

That’s a great idea. It would have to be crewed with merchant mariners, though. The RN and RFA are short-handed as it is.

Keithdwat
Guest

Would they be classes RFA or HMHS??? If they are classed RFA, why?

Julian
Guest
Julian

I wonder how much synergy with the upcoming FSS builds might be possible. If it was build from scratch then at the very least trying to see if the FSS design could be such that at least the hull and basic machinery (engines, generators, etc) could be common would seem to make sense. If it’s a dedicated humanitarian aid asset then the aid budget should also pay for the appropriate additional annual staff costs to crew and maintain the extra vessel and if those extra technical crew and maintainers, trained at foreign aid expense, also had transferable skills applicable to… Read more »

Stephen
Guest
Stephen

Good idea.

Mr Bell
Guest

Very interesting idea Julian- use the FSS hull-form and fit them out as hospital and disaster relief vessels- lots of mexifloat, airlift and containerised supplies handling capacity. 4 helicopter hangar, able to deploy a RM and disaster relief detachment of 400-500 personnel, carry 20,000 tons of supplies and ideally have the ability to pump fresh water desalinated onboard onto land- the FSS hull form proposed is easily capable of delivering such a couple of very useful “base” vessels. If the ship also has a hospital capacity of 100+ beds including ICU, theatres, X ray, CT and MRI scanners than that… Read more »

Julian
Guest
Julian

Precisely. And with the current FSS plans still stuck at, as far as I’m aware, 2 vessels definite and maybe a third hopefully added then just perhaps by adding two hospital/disaster-relief (h/dr)variants to the planned FSS build it might be enough for economies of scale to push things over the line so that we do get 3 FSS rather than just the two with, as you say, the added flexibility of being able to re-purpose the h/dr variants as additional RN support vessels if required. If the FSS ends up with what seems to be the fairly standard RFA weapons… Read more »

basil
Guest

I think there needs to be a clear distinction between RN/RFA amphibious / casualty receiving vessels that on occasion can support disaster relief operations and a purpose built dedicated disaster relief/ Hospital ship crewed by NGO style crew. Having military ships undertaking dedicated disaster relief and foreign support will start to blur the lines of political interference. Just imagine if China or Russia started turning up with military forces in disaster relief ships in storm struck sensitive developing countries which then leads to additional infrastructure development etc… To prevent this countries should build & deploy NGO operated vessels, which do… Read more »

Mr Bell
Guest

Basil that was a bit of a left wing softy answer. Sorry. I think the military is easily capable and experienced enough to man and deploy these vessels (as they do now) for disaster relief. There is no blurring of lines- the ships are deployed by Parliament to support the wishes of the foreign power or area afflicted by disaster following a formal request for said support. Having done disaster relief work I can definitely state the support of the military is crucial to ensure the NGO, NHS, volunteer civilian specialist deployed are protected as UK citizens and do not… Read more »

Andy
Guest
Andy

If we do this, which I support. Let’s make sure the ships are built in the UK to support UK industry and jobs and allow our shipyards to expand and compete for international orders.
If you agree that the UK should build its own naval support ships please sign my petition at
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235377 or write to your MP. Mine has signed the pettion

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