The MSP for Glasgow Shettleston, John Mason, has been tweeting about ‘no large surface ships’ being based in Scotland for over a day now while ignoring discussion on the matter, instead choosing to keep tweeting about it.

John Mason was asked multiple times why he would want a major surface ship to be based in Scotland, especially as Scotland is home to the UK’s submarine force, he however ignored all requests for clarification and continued to post.

The rationale, apparently, is that a major surface vessel should be based in Scotland to ‘stop the Russians’. This is despite the Scotland based submarine fleet being the primary anti-surface and anti-submarine platforms.

It didn’t stop there.

Again.

Again.

Again.

Again.

Again.

And again.

Also, it wouldn’t be a Twitter defence meltdown without a reference to the ‘carrier with no aircraft’ myth… despite both carriers having aircraft on-board right now.

After 24 hours, it’s still going no matter how many people ask for any sort of clarification. In my view, it appears that John is simply looking to be ‘correct’ rather than looking for a discussion on the topic.

Technically correct is still correct, after all.

George Allison
George Allison
George has a degree in Cyber Security from Glasgow Caledonian University and has a keen interest in naval and cyber security matters and has appeared on national radio and television to discuss current events. George is on Twitter at @geoallison
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120 COMMENTS

        • Absolutely correct James. Mason hates being part of the UK but demands we base UK warships in Scotland. Same as Blackford complaining in the H of C that Scotland was never mentioned in the Irish border document presented by Boris last week???.

          • Strangely how many major surface ships will be based in Scotland if they get independence? They will be lucky to be able to keep one in service assuming they got one or two on break up and no cash to keep them armed beyond small arms and white flags. Other than that question there would be little else after that, no submarines which are of course to all intents and purposes large surface ships that can travel underwater too, which looks better to me especially considering their superior armament should that Russian ship come down the North Sea. Because one Frigate isn’t going to be much use expect ially without the might of the RN and RAF to support it.

        • Sturgeon and Blackford are damaging Scotland in so many ways, the sooner they’re removed from power the better. At the time, the SNP probably seemed to be for the “Scottish People” but instead, they’re as bad…no… worse…than the Labour Party.

        • This is the logic the SNP are banking on, they’re a one policy party and all roads lead to independence. The more ‘anti Scottish’ rhetoric the better as far as they’re concerned “See, they all hate us” we need to leave.

          Its easy for the SNP, keep banging the ‘FREEDUM drum’, they don’t seriously have to worry about much, it used to nothing other than independence but now they’re having to get involved with some of the messy stuff like education and health and its not as straightforward as they thought. At some point I reckon they’ll decline too and won’t be running things, its the nature of things.

          One thing to consider for those who would be happy to cut Scotland loose, for some reason the Tories are desperate to keep Scotland in the fold and as they’ve traditionally done poorly for seats up here you’d think they would be happy to see the back of Scotland. I’d be surprised if it was for some deep love of the scenery or a Scottish granny. I’ve no idea why but whether its oil, or even a healthy supply of water, but I suspect its something tangible.

          Still, some dafty on twitter has done sterling work, generated a bit of frothing outrage. Nicely played Mr Johnson..

          • Join the discussion…If Scotland is banking on oil then that boat has sailed all they will be left with is the cost of decommissioning the rigs as renewables start to really bite. I would love to see them go in some ways but strategically we would need a presence in Scotland to cover the UK / Iceland gap without which we would be seriously compromised.

          • Correct new SNP tactic is to encourage England to want them out as they rail against everything and make a nuisance of themselves. SNP are trying to hate there way out of the union.

          • Post Scexit you can bet they will demand reparations and even more bet that any and all of their ills we be our fault. Personally I would put tolls on all south lanes of the motorways out of Scotland so that they can contribute to the cost of allowing their exports to pass through England. Some very nice English, Welsh, American, Japanese and particularly Irish Whiskey/Whisky to fill the dark nights.

          • Whats with all the “them” and “our” stuff ? Last time I checked we were all still in the same happy family.

            Haters gonna hate I guess.

          • Scotland keeps electing the SNP, until Scots stop doing this, their divisive and often offensive manner is going to continue to rub the other nations up the wrong way and I say this as a Welshman.

          • The SNP are a minority government with about 41% of the vote. Usually roughly the same as the party that gets into power in Westminster. They don’t have an outright majority and are in coalition with the Greens so its safe to say that not all of Scotland are behind them. There’s plenty in Scotland that are sick of them banging their particular drum too.

            I’m sure you’re in total accord with what Westminster and the Welsh Assembly say.

          • You make a fair point Andy, unfortunately you guys are lumbered with the SNP while we’re lumbered with a corbynite mouthpiece who’s practically invisible. Having dealt with Welsh government AMs of all parties quite regularly for a number of years, I can say that with a very few exceptions i wouldnt trust any of them to run a parish council.

            I guess I do occasionally fall into the trap of thinking that the SNP speak for all Scotland which of course isn’t the case. Regrettably with the absolute mess that’s Westminster has gotten itself into over brexit, even if Johnson succeeds in his attempts at securing a general election, I can see the SNP coming out with a bigger majority after a GE despite their abysmal performance.

            Wales on the other hand will always vote Labour, god knows why. You could slap a red rosette on Harold Shipman and there are still parts that would vote for him.

          • Evenin’ Chris, whatever your political persuasion, you usually get lumbered with a party you don’t like half the time in Westminster, we do have the extra dynamic of a powerful third option in the SNP. I wish I could say it makes things interesting but not for this swingin’ cat unfortunately. 🙁

            Believe it or not they used to be labelled the Tartan Tories and were quite a conservative (small C) party but they reinvented themselves as a left of centre party to appeal to the majority of Scots who have for a long time been Labour voters. The decline of the Labour party in Scotland has been quite rapid, I was shocked how quickly it fell away in traditional Labour areas (including my constituency) to vote for the SNP. You never know, if Plaid Cymru get their act together it could happen in your neck of the woods, nothing stays the same forever.

            The SNP have been very good at what they’re doing, its just a different argument to the Left/Right debate, they’re coming at it from a geographical angle and its hard to combat from the more ‘traditional’ political perspective, any criticism of the ‘geography’ is seen as a slur on a nation which plays to the SNP’s agenda. For a lot of people nationalism is an easier sell than other forms of politics. They’re a party that panders, they like a giveaway and play up the whole national identity. Even in places where Gaelic hasn’t been spoken in hundreds of years we have Gaelic written on ambulances and police cars, train stations are fair game too, even for New Towns which weren’t even on a map until about 60 years ago. I should say, I’ve no problem with folk wanting to speak it, just the fantasist reinvention of it for the Scottish lowlands. It all plays up the national identity though, it gives us the ‘them and us’ essential to a good fight, even when its Labour calling the shots in Westminster. Its hardly an original idea but it can be effective.

            Colour me cynical but if you assume that they’re all a bunch of egotistical power grabbers it doesn’t matter what the cause, as long as THEY end up getting your way then they’re happy. It can be a well paid gig being a politician (or their hanger’s on) , throw in a bit of ego and I don’t see any of them doing things for the good of the country (whatever country, its all about getting THEIR way, but its for the greater good of course….. Definitely not the Party, or THEIR place in the Party, no sirree.

      • That’s why he spouts the batshit garbage he does. He knows that the Scots dont want to leave the UK. They understand the costs of independence. So he wants to fuel hatred of Scotland in England. The SNP are indeed nasty pieces of bigoted work… but the generality of Scots are realistic, not least all those who work in defence industries.

        • Trevor, there are plenty in Scotland who would like independence, if you recall the Indy ref was 55/45 not 90/10. Its claimed its up to about 50/50 (I’d suggest the increase is partly a reaction against an unelected BoJo Tory government and also the SNP constantly pushing that Scotland voted to Remain but that’s speculation on my part) which some of the more ‘demanding’ membership of the SNP are pushing as a reason for another referendum.

          There does seem to be a bit of double standards with some of the ‘Anti Jock’ rhetoric, Britain leaving the EU = GOOD, even though there is clear evidence that in the short term at least that there will be financial consequences. Soctland leaving the UK = BAD, even though there is clear evidence that in the short term at least that there will be financial consequences. Is it not a case of ‘the heart wants what the heart wants’ ?????

          Its just another topic to get riled up over, if Scotland did leave the UK, what would change for the vast majority of the UK, not a great deal I would have thought, according to some, the rest of the UK would be slightly better off financially.

          I’m not a fan of independence myself but then I wasn’t a fan of leaving the EU either, I take ‘our’ leaving of the EU on the chin, life will go on, the price of stuff will most likely take a hike in the short term but things will settle down and we’ll adjust to the new ‘now’.

          Sorry for going way off piste.

          • Andy not sure we will actually ever leave the EU mate as Bercow has struck again. What the hell has happened to losers consent, we just cannot have a democracy if one side doesnt admit defeat. The SNP are pretty much the same, the leave result has given them a bit more wind in the sails, and taken the scrutiny from their pretty dismal domestic achievements.

          • Airborne, I was watching some of it this afty, it was just lots of people trying to justify why THEY should get their way because for totally noble reasons, they’re right and everyone else is wrong. Its almost like the freakishly rare referendum (unless you live in Scotland) that gave a yes/no response never happened.

            We should maybe just go back to a feudal system with our ‘betters’ making all these decisions, us peasants obviously can’t be trusted and it would save a fortune on paying all these MP’s.

          • It’s been like that for a while mate I reckon, it’s just that it’s out in the open now, MPs holier then thou, I know best, arrogance! As long as us peasants pay our tax, tip our hats, and vote the way we are told, all will be well! Anyway I better get back to tilling the fields while the wife makes my evening meal of pottage!

          • I hear ya bro. I’ve felt disengaged for a while from politics, as things have ramped up recently I’ve got more interested and I didn’t spoil my ballot in the last General Election which was the first for a while. I’ve got the popcorn at the ready for the next week or two and depending on how it pans out, I’ll be voting in the next election. Back to the ‘cock and balls’ after that though, not much point really, i’d love to see a ‘NONE OF THE ABOVE’ box to tick on our elections though.

          • Me to mate, none of the above! And the next election, it’s not a case of voting for who you support, it will be a case of voting for the least damaging party, the best of a very bad and incompetent, arrogant bunch! I’ve done 29 years in uniform and can honestly say I would not raise a finger, to assist or protect a very large number of our politicians. I’ve been in the sand pit for quite a number of years since I left the job, to include East and North Africa, Middle East, and I can confidently say our politics has become like that of quite a few of these rather corrupt, undemocratic, bribe ridden, self interest led nations and their so called leaders! Sad but true!

          • Ooft, 29, you’re a glutton for punishment, I saw 22 as the finishing line.

            You’re right that its not just here in the UK that politics has become a dirty word (like crevice), when you speak to people from different countries there seems to be a similar story of folk being threaders with politics, I’m talking about other European countries not just ‘tin pot’ dodgy ones, we all just seem fed up with career politicians and being taken for granted by them.

            It really is sad.

          • Wasn’t that bad, 2 years boy service, full 22 and 5 years LE commission to grab that extra pension lol! But your right politics has gone downhill fast and pretty much everyone seems threaders with it, and politicians. The groundswell is building in Europe as well, you are spot on with that! Dangerous times ahead methinks, politicians ignore the people at their peril. Western democracies are only 48 hours of a powercut away from anarchy mate.

          • I take your point Andy…

            I think the main difference is that an independent Scotland would be worse off as it’s social spending per head is already higher than the rest of the UK.

            Citizens of an independent Scotland would have have to readjust to a harsh new financial reality that would see spending cut across the board and taxes go up to balance the books.

            That wouldn’t be a readjustment period, it would be the new economic reality, it’s the simple fact of a small population and the relative GDP it can generate to support itself in the world

            An independent UK on the other hand, though there would be a period of re adjustment, would prosper with its economic clout.

            I guess it just depends what price the people of Scotland are prepared to pay I suppose.

            It’s a very high cost indeed, but if that’s what they want, it’s up to them.

          • I share your view John, its the main reason I’ve been against independence, I have no ideological dislike of independence, I don’t really care on that front but I do have more practical concerns like the finances.

            Saying that…. other small countries manage, yes there might be financial consequences but others will see that as a fair trade off, each to their own. For an independent Scotland to then look to (re)join the EU doesn’t seem very ‘independent’, it would just hand that independence over to another larger body. I suppose you could argue that you’re saving the expense of one layer of bureaucracy but there does seem to be a hefty hint of anti English about the whole thing, certainly from some.

            I’ve heard other logics but ultimately (and colour me cynical) it doesn’t matter which set of politicians are calling the shots, they’re still bloody politicians and they owe more to their parties and their egos than the electorate.

          • Well said. If I remember correctly the last Indyref was going ok until English westminster politicians started asking how Scotland was going to support its own currency …and the EU made it clear there would be no direct route for Scotland into the EU as they were paranoid that other regions would then be asking for it.

      • I love all the nations that make up the United Kingdom, and have spent many holidays in all of them. However, in the case of Scotland, I have long-held regard for it and fear the SNP could bring ruin on that great country. England with all its wealth is balancing its economy on a knife-edge so, the whole of the UK must stay together to survive in the longterm. There is one saving grace, the wisdom of the whole Scottish electorate, who will always think long and hard about independence?

    • I’m sure they do Lewis….even though a large majority of our naval assets are built in Scotland, using British taxpayers money to put money into the Scottish workers pockets and to boost the economy in the areas.

  2. “Most of the MoD jobs and spending are in South East England”. How bizarre, it’s almost like the largest proportion of the UK’s population live there…

    • To be fair, it is a chicken and egg thing in that respect. More spending mean more jobs, means more population… Or does more people mean more available workers and therefore more jobs and more spending? I would probably argue the former. There is an imbalance in spending towards London and the south east even if you break it down on a per person basis. There have also historically been imbalanced decisions which leave the rest of the country at a disadvantage over the south east. If there was more spending elsewhere then more jobs would be created and more people would live in those places.

      Still this is by no means an excuse for this SNP idiots posts…

      • Aren’t Portsmouth and Plymouth in the South West and aren’t they also some of the poorest areas of the UK.

        The SNP are just racists, with an anything but English mentality.

        Scotland is an impressive part of our country as is Wales, England and NI and I see nowhere else in the world where people have so much freedom to express themselves.

        The North of England and Wales have been treated far worse than the Scots by our political class, and something does need to be done to rebalance our economy, but this particular MSP is just an idiot who watches bravheart too much…

        • Portsmouth is most certainly not in the south west.
          I think you at looking for xenophobic rather than racist, a very important distinction.
          As for poor treatment, I agree, vast swathes of the UK are criminally neglected by HMG for the benefit of the south east and Home Counties.

          • You should see the state of our finances here in the north west, sea side resort thanks to our government, we need a North West Assembly to manage our own finances.

          • and that’s after the totally dubious decision to move the submarine refits from Rosyth to Plymouth. The V boats struggle to get out of Plymouth and its trickier for fleet boats going in and out too.

          • More politicians is never the answer to any problem…
            Depending on where you live in the U.K. you already have two tiers of politicians in councillors, adding a third just wastes more money, as demonstrated with the Scottish Parish Council.

          • Really? If you weigh up the fact that 60% of the UK Tax take comes from London and SE England an area with <25% of the UK Population, I would say that the SE is hard done by…

            The idea of Govt is to spread the Tax benefits from those who can afford to pay more to those who cannot.

            The next Scottish Independence Referendum has to be fought on the basis that Scotland will lose the Barnett Formula and that their Budget deficit may not allow them entry into the EU. It isn't just Spain who could veto their entry into the block, many of the Eastern Newcomer States would not not want to subsidise a Western Nation whose Economy is almost entirely based on leaching from it"s wealthier neighbours.

            The simple truth of the matter is if Scotland truly wanted Independence they would allow the English to vote on the Union. They'd then whine that the Horrible English had dissolved the Union against their will.

          • I don’t think any SNP member is in touch with reality or the Scottish people……they’re in danger of alienating the Scots from the rest of the UK and are endangering their economy as well. They’re nothing but a bunch of morons.

        • Mate, your description of this idiotic MSP is bang on…. If I’m correct, when the Scottish people voted in the recent referendum to REMAIN in the United Kingdom, they were promised and actually GOT the MOD contracts for their shipyards as a “thank you for keeping the UK intact”. Other British shipyards lost out on those huge deals, including Northern Ireland, which was a massive kick in the nuts for their economy.
          What more does the SNP want? Why do they think that they deserve everything? To be honest, Scotland has a huge UK military presence, including Air Force, major Royal Navy bases with almost our entire submarine fleet alongside our counter mine fleet and numerous patrol vessels. There’s also a lot of British Army bases up there as well.
          This bloke makes my blood boil, he really does…

      • Fair points. I was actually thinking of it in terms of most of the population is there, thus most of the service personnel must already live there and have friends and family locally. Being uprooted and moved around the country is one of the issues the forces are having with retention.

        Maybe instead of just greedily looking at the economics, John Mason needs to consider that a lot of servicemen and women don’t like the idea of being relocated hundred of miles away from their homes to the remote Scottish Highlands.

  3. We don’t have enough destroyers and frigates to base them in Scotland in meaningful numbers. But I think we should keep HMNB Caledonia at rosyth instead of closing it and make use of it from all RN vessels when in the area. Maybe basing a new OPV there for patrolling scottish waters. We all know we need more frigates and destroyers let’s hope in years to come the type 31 is a success and we order a second batch. The SNP are idiots and half the time don’t know jack about defence.

    • For a relatively high and unnecessary cost, keeping another base open and basing an OPV in Scotland wouldn’t change anything. If this muppet doesn’t count attack submarines and the bombers as major vessels, they certainly won’t accept an OPV

      • Callum, its one guy, maybe had a bad day (maybe not, its irrelevant), he’s not even speaking for the whole SNP, he’s having a pointless twitter spat.

        I’m answering to your post but it could be one of a number of boys working themselves up over this. People say all sorts of crap on social media, it doesn’t mean its all going to come to pass. I’m guessing if you hadn’t read this article you’d be none the wiser what some random dude said on twitter.

      • In my opinion, the submarine fleet we have are even more important than the bells and whistles of the surface fleet….they are the real capital ships of the Royal Navy, they are, by far, the most dangerous weapon we have in our toy box and our potential adversaries know it.

  5. He’s so determined to answer every sensible challenge by repeating his pointless and irrelevant statement that there are no major surface ships based in Scotland. The ironic thing is that he’s actually wrong On that. Some of the RN’s biggest surface ships are based in Scotland, 7,000 tons each. Only 3 at the moment but eventually rising to 7. Well, Astute is a surface ship (boat) when it’s not submerged isn’t it?

    If he can be a total idiot and make stupid irrelevant observations then I can counter with similar stupidity can’t I?

    • We have the same tone deaf types here only more of them I’m afraid… They get very tiresome very quickly don’t they?

      Cheers!

      • Good spot. How did I forget those in my deliberately silly counter argument?

        In my defence I suppose the SSBNs are seen on the surface rather less than SSNs so I had Astutes in my mind more but when the SSBNs are tied up at Faslane they are on the service so yes, let’s count them as part-time surface vessels too. 🙂

    • This is a common policy of populist parties. You see Labour, Conservatives and the Brexit Party doing the same thing. Every interview for instance that I hear with Conservative MPs, no matter what the actual topic, leads them to say at some point “Get Brexit Done”… The idea was popularised by the Nazis when they were trying to gain power. The main premise was to campaign on an handful of short repeatable slogans that tapped into feelings rather than facts. They specifically refused to fight their campaign on facts as facts could be challenged (especially as their facts were likely to be made up dross) while tapping into feelings was hard for anyone else to counter. One of these slogans was ” Make Germany great again!” (sound familiar?).

      This SNP MP is merely doing the same thing. Basically do not engage on facts, just keep bashing out the simple message until people just start to accept it as the truth.

      Also by making yourselves out to be “victims of the system” you can easily bat off any criticism by claiming that it simply shows the attacks you are talking about. Trump has used this tactic to great success. Basically if someone attacks him based on pure fact then he simply states that it shows he is the victim of the press, or establishment or whatever else he want to blame and his supporters buy it as that is what they were told would happen. Worryingly Both Corbyn and Johnson have been using the same tactics (although not quite as heavily) in arguing that the press and establishment are against them.

      • Yes Lee, politics has become incredibly toxic and divisive, and more depressingly, totally unconnected to the people they claim to represent. They’re looking to drive us rather than be guided by us. I accept that there has to be an element of them steering us although that will never be stated outright. Its becoming about ‘winning’ at all costs not about running the country which should be pretty mundane really, its all very egotistical and power hungry. I can’t wait for Brexit to be done and dusted so I can go back to spoiling my ballot.

    • “we’re not interested in the rambling of an idiot”

      At the risk of being picky Andy, you’re not doing a very good job of not being interested, you’re like a tramp on chips all over this article.

      You seem a little ‘triggered’ by it all.

  7. Yuussss ! Dafty spraffs pish on twitter and outrage ensues. Grrrrrr

    For some reason I have the image of Blakey’s all over the country working themselves up over this.

  8. Perhaps Mr Mason is happy with this “discussion” as a welcome distraction from having to talk about the SNP record on health, education or tackling the drugs epidemic. Just wondering.

    • Strangely the SNP never mention the Barnett formulary , the budget deficit the rest of the UK help them out with, or any of the other benefits of being part of the family of nations that is the UK.
      Deficit last year = tax receipts minus expenditure £14.5 billion.

      • The SNP have somehow convinced their mind-numbingly dumb supporters that the Barnett formula is irrelevant and/or another mechanism for Westminster to keep Scotland down…

        Their inability to understand simple mathematics knows no bounds.

      • Why would the EU want another dependent state to support when they already have so much to look after and the Eurozone is back on the brink of disaster as is?

        • Was responding to Andy R’s extremely hypothetical scenario, it wasn’t exactly serious but I would imagine the EU would be happy to welcome Scotland into the fold, either for shits and giggles and a F YOU to the rest of the non EU UK or just because they like collecting “dependent States”.

          Like I say, not to be taken seriously, its not like anything we say on here has any relevance anyway, we’re just a bunch of dafties shootin’ the shit.

          • Sorry Eu or should I say Spain would veto letting Scotland into the EU or offering help as it would send a message to the Catalonians about independence. The last thing Spain wants

          • That’s assuming Scotland would be dependent, it will very much depend on who’s set of books you want to use. 😉

            It is one of the problems with the EU that they have allowed countries to join who weren’t ‘mature’ enough into the fold. Its bit them on the arse with bail outs of Greece etc. and they’re having to put money into countries that still have a horse and cart economy as soon as you set foot outside the cities. That’s a whole different debate though I guess.

          • Moldova, Serbia and Ukraine are next on the list, though I think Putin will have something to say about the last one…

    • Andy by the poisoned witch of the north’s own declaration Scotland will leave the UK and become an independent nation in the EU. Therefore it will be the ECB they go cap in hand too. £14.5 billion a year is no small change. Ask Greece how an ECB bail out goes. Structural change will be asked for, meaning cutbacks and a bigger hash of things then the SNP are currently doing for Scotlands domestic policies and public services.

      • All speculation of course but assuming ‘Wee Jimmy’ gets her way and there’s an independent Scotland. It will be ‘all hail Wee Jimmy’ and the SNP will have achieved what they want. I doubt for one second on the back of it that they’d disband and fade away, they would have to deal with the reality of running an economy. While it might go horribly wrong and they have to go running off to either the EU or Westminster, its more likely they would do what most other countries do and borrow. Despite what some on here seem to think, Scotland does more than make war canoes for the RN.

        See if we all take a step back from this, its all been generated by a twitter spat, followed up by loads of speculation and a fair bit of outrage. While it passes the time it has shown up some pretty interesting views on ‘Northern Britain’.

    • It would be hilarious mate, not for the Scottish people but to see the SNP get smashed in an election would make my day…..That poisoned dwarf Nicola Sturgeon and that moron Ian Blackford do my head in.

  9. …and if and when they gain independence there will be no surface ships, or submarines, or shipbuilding, or the RAF or….and on it goes. Oh happy days.

  12. How do you start to reply to such ignorance and uneducated baffon behaviour of this SNP MP. What an idiot. As if Scotland voting for independence would have any major warships anyway, they might but they couldn’t afford to run them with the £14.5 billion a year budget deficit Scotland runs up every year that the rest of the UK bails them out and pays for.
    Getting tired of the lying whingeing SNP. If the people of Scotland choose to believe these fools then they will be responsible for the outcome.

  14. There are no Tanks, Self Propelled Guns, or Support helicopters in Scotland either. There is no need.

    Like there is no need for one of the escorts.

    Pure ignorance.

    • Is he committing to the SNP having a “major ship” building campaign if the SNP achieved independence. I think not. OPV at best or maybe a few ferries from Ferguson yards

  17. Apparently he moves from “no major ships” to “no major surface ships” as the arguments mount, perhaps thinking that nobody notices…

  18. My heritage, based on my surname is Scottish, however both my parents were born and raised in Yorkshire, which has a larger population than the whole of Scotland. I therefore demand that in future, large naval ships are based on the Humber on the north-side in Hull. They should definalty not use Grimsby, as that is in Lincolnshire and they already have the RAF, well they used to.
    I am sure that eventually the voting public of Scotland will grow tired of the SNP, and they will be relegated back to a fringe party.

  19. The guy is obviously not thinking straight. Not only is the submarine force based in Scotland, but Scotland is benefiting from the Royal Navy’s entire ship order book. The SNP should be the last to complain.

        • I was thinking this was a practice run on the “Lightning Carrier” concept and a dress rehearsal for a full squadron deployment (which is much larger than the usual on the amphibs) on the QE.

          Cheers!

  22. If the scots get independence will they then have major surface warships of their own?? Ireland does not have major warships of any nature do they? Just patrol ships. Would Scotland do any different if they ever leave??

  23. The guy has a point, Her Majesties Fleet should be spread all over the UK in order to truly benefit the whole country.
    I’m going to start a crowd funded legal challenge to force the Government to base HMS Bulwark in my home city of ……………. Manchester.

  26. “In my view, it appears that John is simply looking to be ‘correct’ rather than looking for a discussion on the topic.”

    Or, … a bottle opener?

  27. Seriously, wasn’t shipbuilding kept in Glasgow at the expense of Portsmouth? Seriously, perhaps it should be returned to Portsmouth, it would make sense considering Scots may be vote for independence.

    Also, if Scotland gets independence, Scotland copies Ireland and has a small airforce of propeller aircraft, I bet this idiot will expect the RAF to counter Russian bombers.

    • Christopher I am of the same mind as you and as an English taxpayer the very same day that Scotland votes for independence I will deludge my MP, the MOD and HMG, as will all my friends and colleagues, with letters and emails requesting to immediately withdraw ALL of our armed forces from the country, all shipbuilding to end immediately and move to England, Wales and Northern Ireland and an immediate ceasing of Barnett formulate payments.
      Then Scotland can take a fair proportion of the national debt on. A debt that they have in no small way helped the rest of the UK to accumulate, somewhere around £200-£300 billion is mathematically a fair share. We will need that £200/300 billion to prepare rest of UK for a separate Scotland. Nuclear deterrent move. QRA aircraft moved to a newly built QRA airfield in Northumberland, new border posts and customs checks etc etc
      No to using sterling, Yes to a hard border.
      Cause and effect, Scotland can have its independence but it will have to stand on it’s own.
      I am painting a deliberately grim picture here so anyone in Scotland can understand potential consequences of a yes vote but also an equally strong sense of injustice that the rest of the UK will feel towards an SNP lead independent Scotland god forbid if that was ever voted for.

      • Mister Bell, Who in Scotland are you directing your apocalyptic comments to? From experience, the vast majority of Scottish posters on this forum, myself included, oppose separation from the UK. Such comments are largely wasted …..
        But if you wish to paint your “deliberately grim picture”, then write to the daily “National” newspaper, effectively the house magazine of the SNP. Although please try not to act as an unpaid recruiting Sergeant for the separatists!
        Remember too, that in a divorce from a 300 years Union, the parties will share not only the liabilities (debt) – but also the assets. Incidentally, the pound is not an asset, it is simply a means of exchange; there is nothing to stop an independent Scotland using sterling – although the economic benefits in doing so would be questionable.
        Good to debate with you …….

        • Alan I am merrily trying to point out potential repercussions of an independence vote. The SNP will not have even consider these in their headlong theological drive for an unnecessary independence. Scotland is already a virtual self-governing region, in terms of domestic policy.
          Let’s all hope and pray Sturgeon never gets her way and common sense prevails.

          • Hi Mr Bell

            Don’t worry, Referendums are advisory apparently! If Brexit can be ignored so can Indyref2!!

          • Hi Mister Bell, Rest assured, I know you mean well ….. certainly until the shock of Brexit, the tide of separationist sentiment was receding in Scotland. Ironically, there are some similarities between Brexiters and Scottish nationalists. Indeed, your comments could equally apply to the UK leaving the EU, ending with ….. “Let’s all hope and pray Farage never gets his way and common sense prevails”! LOL – apologies, I’m gently pulling your leg.
            If there is another referendum in Scotland, I believe it will be won by “remainers” stressing the positive benefits that UK membership brings to Scotland, and the positive benefits that Scottish membership brings to the United Kingdom. We need to stress common culture, common ties and common history – and avoid getting into narrow economic debates (based on selective statistics) which can be destructive and antagonistic in nature. It’s all about winning hearts and minds …………..

        • Yes Alan, as we’re seeing in the Brexit ‘disengagement’ things will get divvied up and its all up for negotiation. For example, seeing how this site is all about the ‘warry stuff’, Scotland most likely wouldn’t need their share of the aircraft, ships, submarines, tanks and other heavy systems. They might be happy to swap this stuff for something more useful, possibly reduce the share of the debt that Mr Bell mentioned.

          Much as Mr Bell’s dystopian fantasy is amusing, I’m not sure it would be the blueprint in any future (and hypothetical) split up of the UK.

          • Hi Andy, I absolutely agree – despite the stark “black and white” warnings from some on this forum, I suspect these hypothetical negotiations to sort-out the future relationship between the UK and an independent Scotland could be as complex as Brexit – with the added complication of nuclear weapons!
            Let’s not forget a secure, fixed storage facility for nuclear warheads buried under a Scottish hillside, not far from Glasgow. Trade-offs would be made …….. despite the diehards on both sides.
            But anyway, for me – it’s not a day I wish to see.

  28. The snp nazis of Scotland only want the break up of uk 1 agenda party! Dont give a fuk for majority of Scots just like majority of Scots dont give a fuk for Scotland’s answer to sinn fein! ?????????????????????????????

  29. I’m sorry. But all I see here, is a SNP nutcase tweeting… Bit like one of those “Caffeine OD’ed” cartoon squirriels, or the one in ICE AGE… [Facepalm]

  30. We had T42 destroyers based in Rosyth and they pulled out years ago and moved south.
    Its taken him this long to realise that?

  32. This MSP is an absolute cretin……aside from the two flat tops, how more “major” can you get than a fleet of nuclear submarines? Both nuclear powered attack and Trident armed submarines I might add. These assets and their crews and families definitely benefit the local economy.

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