The new Queen Elizabeth class supercarriers will represent a “powerful and important strategic conventional deterrent” according to the First Sea Lord.

Admiral Sir Philip Jones First Sea Lord and Chief of Naval Staff said:

HMS Queen Elizabeth is the first carrier in the world designed from the outset to operate a fifth generation combat aircraft. Crucially, a second ship – HMS Prince of Wales – is on its way, which will give the UK a continuous Carrier Strike capability.

I have every expectation that, in time, this combination of carriers and jets will represent a powerful and important strategic conventional deterrent.”

The ships former commanding officer, Captain Simon Petitt, pointed out that there is a lot of symbolism in modern warfare and that having a ship the size of HMS Queen Elizabeth, which will be the navy’s biggest ever, was significant.

The sight of a heavily equipped 70,000 tonne carrier, which is almost 300 metres long, heading towards a potential enemy had a deterrent effect that is essential if the UK wants to project influence across the world Petitt claims.

“It is massively visible, you can range back in history and see the value of this. Everything from Nelson deterring Admiral Villeneuve from leaving Cadiz all the way to the big battleships of early 20th century, to what we are doing now.

The Americans use it all the time. We currently haven’t got this level of carrier capability. The bigger the capability the more influence you have to bear.”

So great is the impact of larger vessels as a deterrent, they’re often used as a geopolitical chess piece. American governments have, since the second world war, moved aircraft carriers around to demonstrate American resolve.

The particular benefits of using carriers in this way are that they operate on the high seas, where permission is not needed from other countries.

Indeed, since modern US carriers are large and imposing they “show the flag” to great effect due to their sheer size alone. Equally, it is often argued that had the Royal Navy had two full sized carriers in 1982 it is more than possible that Argentina would not have attempted to take the Falklands in the first place.

HMS Queen Elizabeth is expected to start fixed-wing flight trials with F-35Bs off the eastern coast of the US in Autumn 2018.

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Harold

I cannot find myself able to agree. We have a very top heavy navy now and these two ships are a big mistake. When I was in the Andrew, there were 4 carriers, smaller than these two but very powerful with dependable strike aircraft and a combined destroyer and frigate fleet of over 60 ships and nearly 20 diesel and nuclear submarines, I don’t recall how many minesweepers and hunters, patrol vessels, LPDs, and countless RFAs. I read the headlines today and am horrified. I ask the politicians, would you want to join this navy?

Daniele Mandelli

Harold.

Thank you for serving. My thoughts are.

Yes the navy is too small, but how much do you think in today’s money a fleet like that would cost?
Defence Inflation rises constantly.
Would you sacrifice SSN capability to have more escorts and Diesel Subs for example?

I agree with the sentiment yet at the same time longing for the navy of yesteryear is as big a fantasy as the fantasy fleets some post on this website.

Again, compare with other medium sized powers. Would their citizens join their navy if we are simply talking numbers of assets and not capability?

Harold

PS – and a couple of cruisers too!

Julian

a better solution would have been to order one, fit it with cats ‘n traps, order the Rafale-M as a maritime fighter and then pool it with the French CDG. Total inter-operability of both carriers and air wing. we could then have enough money left over to keep our amphibious capability and possibly have a couple more frigates/destroyers EVEN WITH the de-valuing of the pound. We could have then been free to order F35A and/or more Typhoons for GR4 replacement

Ask anyone in the French navy how only having one carrier works out ! Maybe if someone is thinking of attacking somewhere we are responsible for we could ask them to wait for our one carrier to complete it’s refit ? It could work I suppose !

Rafale-M does not come cheaply.

dadsarmy

I’m happy with them the way they are, for me VSTOL is appropriate for the RN, should have been the emphaisis in the first place rather than vanity project cats and traps which suit the Yanks, not us with the UK’s history and geography. And so is the F35-B appropriate, with minimal runway need and multi-role. Yes, they’re a deterrent, a show of force, half as much again as the Charles de Gaulle in size, and the UK’s contribution to both NATO and the EU, whether in the EU or out of it, and one that apart from the US,… Read more »

David

Whilst I agree with you in kind, they are only a deterrent if we have enough aircraft to fly from them and that really is still the unknown. Leaning on Uncle Sam to make up numbers shows we have neither the money nor intent to fully complement the carrier air wing ourselves – and I fear the latter more dangerous than the former!

dadsarmy

Well, numbers of aircraft will be lower than optimal for some time, but the thing is the carriers have a 50 year lifetime and can take plenty, whereas two small cheaper carriers as some suggested would soon be filled with no expansion room. I suspect also space could be made available to other countries if they take the F35-B, France as an example, but other NATO countries too, Italy, Germany, or co-operative countries like Austria. Take it 15 years in the future, countries having 3 or 4 F35-Bs on LDAs, and you could even get the QE as a central… Read more »

Ian

I broadly agree – I think they were and are the correct choice for the UK

Only 3 !

Lee H

Morning The government has decided to go down the shiny toy route, nothing we can do about that now. It’s like a house holder who needed an estate car to get the family around and thought no, I’ll buy a Rolls Royce instead. Can’t afford to run it, but the neighbours will all see I have a Rolls-Royce so I must be important – a “big deal” as Ron Burgandy Would say (Anchorman). We now find ourselves in the position where our Rolls-Royce needs to be taken out and about, driven around and shown off. What it also needs to… Read more »

Pacman27

Hi Lee Not sure I agree with you totally here, I think the QEC may well be the saving of the military in the UK. Whilst my personal preference would have been 4 more Astutes and 6 Frigates – I suspect these would not have been built if the QEC had not been ordered anyway. The QEC for better or worse demonstrates Britains ingenuity, manufacturing prowess and is the fulcrum for what is our new operational mode as an expeditionary force. Many other assets of the RN are on their last legs and this is a strategic asset that the… Read more »

Daniele Mandelli

Agree with the broad sentiment of it though.

Always quality over quantity. Always.

What is needed is balance.

Ian

Mostly – though never forgetting quantity also has a quality all of its own

T-45 v Tiger

Lee H

It’s the balanced fleet that counts, if he can sell it…

Ian

Not to be in Asia is to ignore 21stC power and influence. At this moment we have reasonable relationships with three of the big four local powers in region (China / Japan / India) which if we play our cards right mean we could be a very useful ‘trusted third party’ which I am very much in favour of. However, for any of this to be a remote possibility the navy and our diplomatic core needs to gear up and scale up spectacularly. Escorts, subs, manpower, planes all need scale. By way of comparison, China alone has a submarine fleet… Read more »

We need capability across the board. Both high end and low. To those critical of the carriers I’d suggest they look at their crew complement and how amazingly low it is. It isn’t academic one of the biggest determinants of lifetime operating cost is crew cost. We’ve got a bargain if we only realise it. a lot of Americans and French would tell you that.

Daniele Mandelli

David this one I agree with you.
Few nations can get a CBG together. Hopefully the pieces continue to fall into place.

Nathan

In other news Russia and China declare they will have operational hypersonic weapons by 2020-ish.

IKnowNothing

I don’t understand why some of the rough/ short field fixed wing aircraft couldn’t operate off the QE and PoW, perhaps as COD, refuelling or AWACS? The thing seems bigger than some of the rough fields they are intended to operate from?

Daniele Mandelli

Wingspan.?

Lee H

Landing ?

Daniele Mandelli

Equals no room!

That comment gave me visions of our rough field STOL C17’s landing on the QEC!

Though I recall they tried rocket assisted Hercs for the Iran Op in 1980 and there is a pic on Google of a C130 taking off from a carrier!

IKnowNothing