A report by the Scottish Affairs Committee has cautioned that the future of Scottish shipyards may be uncertain if a greater proportion of orders for the Royal Navy are awarded to foreign entities.
Committee MPs are demanding to know whether the successful bid from the Team Resolute consortium, the team building the new support ships partly in Spain but mostly in Belfast, was the cheapest.
This report comes on the heels of the awarding of a £1.6 billion contract for the construction of three naval support ships to an international consortium, which will result in a portion of the building work being conducted in Spain. The shipyards at Govan and Scotstoun, the last remaining shipyards on the Upper Clyde, heavily rely on future orders from the Royal Navy.
Currently, these yards are engaged in the Type 26 frigate programme and the Committee has requested information on expected orders in the 2030s.
The report also looks for answers on the awarding of the Fleet Solid Support ships to an international consortium, with some of each vessel being built in Spain while the majority will be built in Belfast.
“The decision to award the Fleet Solid Support (FSS) ships to the international consortium Team Resolute is an example of a shift in the UK Government’s approach to warship procurement. We note that the UK Government chose the Team Resolute bid over a Team UK bid that would reportedly have supported more jobs in the UK, and Scotland in particular. The UK Government’s decision appears to prioritise short-term savings over longer term economic gains for Scotland and the rest of the UK. Witnesses told us that the FSS decision would be a test of the new National Shipbuilding Strategy.”
The report then recommends:
“The UK Government should set out its reasoning for selecting Team Resolute as the preferred bidder for building the new order of Fleet Solid Support ships. Specifically, it should confirm whether the bid from Team Resolute offered the lowest price to the UK Government of the bids submitted.”
The report then points out:
“The Secretary of State told us that Team UK’s bid for the Fleet Solid Support contract was “non-compliant” with the terms of the competition but did not give further details. We would welcome further information to help understand the Government’s reasoning.”
And, as a recommendation, it adds:
“In its response to this report, the UK Government should confirm on what date it determined that Team UK’s bid for the Fleet Solid Support ships contract was non-compliant with the terms of the competition, what work was done to resolve the compliance issues identified, and on what date the decision to select a preferred bidder was made.”
The report can be accessed here: https://publications.
We need to drastically speed up the construction rate of Naval ships and increase the size of the fleet , now that politicians finally accept the world is alot more dangerous,
Surely keep the fleet support ships away from the specialist warship construction yards is the best option?
Construction times are always a balance between affordability and Yard workshare, you don’t want your Ships built so quick the Yard runs out of work.
There is also the MAJOR issues of recruitment to our armed forces and the strong likelyhood we wont be recruiting in scotland for ever.
Recruitment has been an issue for the last 5 years at least. It pains me to see how small the RN has gotten. But with an independent Scotland the RN will have to massivley review how it operates within the Territorial waters as well as abroad.
I wonder if North Jockania will go neutral after independence and expect the UK to protect it, or will it join NATO and pay out 2% of GDP on defence.
Err why?
Young uns dont appear to want a forces career now, At both my kids 6th forms they had careers open days. The forces recruitment stands were almost unattended.
We need to look across the Pond to why their citizens join their Military.
Enlistment bonuses of up to $50K.
High quality, low or no cost health care.
Better rates on home loans.
Retirement and pension plan options.
Paid for degrees
Professional qualifications
Full trade apprenticeships.
Green Cards.
Yes, I know some limited inducements are available to UK citizens, but nothing like the US gives it’s citizens.
I agree BUT, We also have the elephant in the room of the UK government that keeps hanging veterans out to dry at the hands of humaan rights lawyers for DECADES after they served. Veterans from Kenya, Ulster, Bosnoa, Iraq and A/stan have been haunted for decades AFTER they served. and every promise the UK govt has made to stop them being persecuted has amounted to nothing. I’m from an army family, I did 17.5 years as did my cousins, My dad and grandad served as well. But after seeing the persecution of NI Veterans I decided to advise my… Read more »
They should be told by the Union Government at Westminster – “Whilst the continued security of Union Lands is a priority for this Government, the SNP should be reminded that the United Kingdom requires long term planning to safeguard the interests of the Nation. The SNP are reminded that if they secure Independence from the Union that the completion of orders for ships Must be completed on time and reasonably within budget or future orders may be terminated if the Security of the Union is under threat”. In other words, if you want to build ships for us as an… Read more »
It has been made VERY clear many times if the Scots go independent UK warship building comes South! They either don’t believe that or think it’s a bluff but no UK warship is built outside of the UK.
Can I ask a serious question, where? Which yards have the capacity to take over work and can the Royal Navy afford any delays to the delivery schedule of T26 and T31?
Reality is if Scotland did vote for independence there would be a transition period and like it or not work on hulls would continue in the interim, if I was to bet on it, I’d say fitting out possible moved to Birkenhead or Appledore. There’s a nation skills shortage, we don’t have the capacity to just move the work overnight as many seem to think.
your right but the work will have to move due to a variety of reasons,some kit that goes into our ships are subject to various licensing regulations that would not permit a ‘foreign’ yard to work with!
The RN has history towing an incomplete ship from the yard building it to another for completion. Remaining hulls would probably be worked on until they could be towed to yards in the U.K. for completion.
Meanwhile cranes, machinery, etc would probably be stripped from the yards to be moved south too.
Devonport lost out to Scotland for political reasons. It wouldn’t take long to get it out of mothballs. As a matter of importance it should be seriously considered because you cant trust sturgeon and the snp.
The reality is that if Scotland left the union, the UK would need to do some major investment in its yards, but and this is key if they could not be built in the UK it would need to look at the cheapest international yards to build ships in the meantime, until it could rebuild its capacity. That would not be the Scottish yards as they are not the most efficient or cheapest yards even in Europe.
An interesting point for sure however then there would be the compnsation to BAE and Babcock for terminating their contracts which would make the whole situation an expensive mess. As I said before, hulls continue to be assmebled as is with fitting out moved, allows yards in England (lets be honest NI and Wales wouldn’t be trusted in case they left as well) to get up to speed. Elephant in the room, where are the submarines based while all this goes on? If work is pulled from Scotland there’s zero incentive for whoever is in charge of Scotland to agree… Read more »
If and it’s not happening anytime in the next generation Scotland chose to leave it would want the closest relationship with the uk possible, defence included. The SNP doesn’t speak for all of Scotland and can easily be voted out for another party.
Even if a second independence referendum resulted in a separation from the United Kingdom, the government would most likely not accept giving up Faslane. It would be a territory of the UK such as the bases in Cyprus. Whoever is in charge of Scotland doesn’t matter since it will be on the UK’s terms if they would leave.
To be honest I don’t think there would be a nuclear submarine base in Scotland if it became independent, I’m sure the UK would like to rent the space but I think nuclear submarines in general and Ballistic missile subs in particular are to totemic for the nationalists…they are after-all probably the most dogma driven party in UK politics and that’s saying a lot.
The ScotNats only have one principle that they will never abandon, and that is independence. Every other policy is secondary. I suspect that if indy happened there would be a nominally temporary sovereign base area carved out encompassing Coulport and Faslane until a more “suitable” location found and the issue kicked repeatedly into the long grass. Indy Scotland wouldn’t have a particularly strong hand to play when it came to demanding concessions on their side, so they aren’t likely to win something that would be considered fundamentally detrimental to UK national security, and indy Scotland would also be coming under… Read more »
Although an independent Scotland would not be in NATO. Which in itself is a big issue as NATO membership takes a long time and the is no guarantee they would be allowed in, it only takes one Veto and Scotland is not getting in.
Of course any warships already under construction would be have their contracts honoured.
But it would be for any future warships (including currently unstarted ones). And any company/consortium would be under immense pressure to bring their workforce down to shipyards still in The Union.
Scotland would lose a load of skilled jobs and many of the skilled people (as most really wouldn’t have a choice but to move where the work is).
With the minor point that people only go so far to follow the work, there aren’t enough people building the current ships in Glasgow and Rosyth, by your logic all the people who didn’t get the jobs in their yards, Devonport, Appledore, Tyneside, Belfast, should all have moved cause what else they going to do. The vast majority didn’t move, the skills were lost as people reskilled or moved to other types of work. There’s zero precedent for the mass movement of workers that many seem to think will happen automatically, people have families, friends and other commitments they aren’t… Read more »
I thought part of the reason for team resolute getting the gig was the renewal of shipbuilding in Northern Ireland.
Yeh, and the transfer technology and / or know-how. Not sure what the nature of the transfer is, although from what I have read it was on the manufacturing (and possibly design?) process side of things. That will have a value which will need to be taken account of as well.
Cheers CR
The decision to award the 3-ship FSS contract to Team Resolute was well balanced. We get to rebuild a fine asset at H&W, train new apprentices and get access to Spanish IP. Worth paying a bit extra for maybe and the cheapest bid is not always the best. Bloody Scottish politicians should look at where the contract for their new ferries went.
We don’t know if it was well balanced as the details have not been released.
Right now team uk could of bid half the cost and twice as quick but we don’t know. Until we do find out it’s total guess work.
Look out for decision makers getting a mansion or 2 on the Costa’s 🙈
Not sure, but after the T26s are built the T83s should be coming on line. So from my understanding Clyde ship building is secure until the mid 2040s.
Till the looney sturgeon and snp get their way with independence. No more ships built up here.
Scotland can bore off. They already have a monopoly on the bulk of naval shipbuilding. Kick them out of the UK and move all the defence work to people who would be grateful for it. Then we can stop listening to the whining bastards.
It’s not Scotland, it’s the SNP. Best not supply music to their ears, Marked. This party demanded Independence when the UK voted for the Common Market, and have also demanded Independence when the UK voted to come out of the EU.
There is only one Constant Drumbeat, and that requires outrage at every turn.
Rgs
And of course demanded Independence when the UK was in the EU, fairly recently. Just an observation.
Please point to all the shipyards with skilled workers who can immediately take on the job. Reality is the skills needed are already in short supply, cutting ties with Scotland doesn’t improve the situation for the RN and frigate replacement.
Well those
• those skilled Scottish shipyard workers would suddenly be out of a job
• English/NI shipyards would have vacancies for skilled shipyard workers.
Not hard to see yards south of the border, attracting many of these workers south. Especially as other jobs opportunities would be few as the Scottish economy inevitably started failing apart.
So you’re basically hoping that people up and move? Strange how BAE and Babcock have been looking for more skilled tradespeople and they’ve not been flocking to Glasgow and Rosyth?
Would a sensible approach perhaps be, hull assmebly continues as is and fitting out is moved to perhaps Birkenhead or Appledore. Royal Navy can’t afford a delay to the current delivery schedule unless they reduce commitments for several years.
Upping and moving is what most people will do if they are serious about their career. I’ve done it several times. People haven’t been flocking to Glasgow and Rosyth for a couple of reasons: • there aren’t people with the existing skills elsewhere, there’s no shipyards that have recently closed in England • it’s Glasgow and Rosyth, why would any English/Welsh move to a country where anti-English hatred is being whipped-up by the local administration? The RN would find a way to cope with a delay in new ships rather than risk having its ships built by a hostile foreign… Read more »
You’re actually delusional aren’t you? So to sum up, you agree there isn’t a ready supply of skilled people to complete the work, a fact acknowledged by BAE and Babcock who have struggled to get people with said skills to move from elsewhere in the UK. You however seem to think that the vast majority of people currently working on T26 and T31 will all happily move to a now foreign country? As for anti-English hatred, where, never seen it in my life, just as I’ve never experienced anti Scottish hatred when in England, does it happen, sure, is it… Read more »
As I expected, an add hominem attack as soon as you couldn’t dispute the logic of my arguments. Thanks for admitting defeat. Yes BAE and Babcock have had a skills recruitment issue because there wasn’t the people in the U.K. with them. But now they have trained and unskilled these people, they will have a choice: • unemployment when the Scottish shipyards shut • relocate to England where not only will they have jobs, but their take-home pay will be higher due to lower taxation. It’s a no brainer what the intelligent ones with the most in demand skills will… Read more »
You’re hilarious and delusional, good luck shouting into your little echo chamber.
Yes, you’ve definitely confirmed with that comment that you know you’ve lost the debate. Not surprising as a person would really need to be stupid or disingenuous to believe the things you post.
I realise this must be traumatising for you, never having heard this before. But that’s what’s happens when you lead a sad and lonely life with no one to gently point out the flaws in your arguments before you publicly humiliate yourself by posting them on the internet.
Oh he is very entertaining, for about five minutes.
Where else would they be able to go with their skills?
And with the Scottish economy in the toilet as a result of independence and no plan for how, to you know, independently fund it, the jobs suddenly opening up in the rest of the UK would look very appealing.
You should work for the Scottish Conservatives, your ability to talk down the third most economically active part of the UK is amazing. Should also note that any country or territory that’s tried to leave Westminster control has been told they’re too small and too poor to survive on their own, with the exception of India and Canada, yet every one of them is still a functioning sovereign nation. Makes you wonder if Scotland is such a drain on the UK then why aren’t the Tories who love to find efficiency and cut waste (apparently) not backing Scottish Independence, surely… Read more »
Skills can be learned. Shipyards existed all over the place and there’s no reason a couple could exist again.
I’d be all for the rest of the UK gearing up with the aim being to move ALL shipbuilding for the navy out of Scotland to somewhere more stable and future proof.
If that means Scottish jobs are devastated tough. The rest of the UK will be happy to have the business. Scotland can generate their own employment.
And you wonder why the Nationalists scream bloody murder when orders change, your line of reasoning literally plays into their hands and helps to undermine the intergrity of the Union, it honestly makes reasoned debate very difficult.
Maybe this is why I’m so pragmatic…
I agree with pragmaticScot, we need to support and nurture the Union, not give the nationalists red meat. Let’s keep supporting those Scottish yards to the hilt while they are in the Union, but make it clear the contracts would end the moment Scotland was no longer in the union.
Honestly it’s this kind of talk that makes it look and sound like everyone is 2nd best to English and England.
As person living in Scotland the topic of independence hardly ever gets mentioned. Hardly anyone is bothered there’s enough other stuff going on in folks lives. A small number are diehard supporters but that’s the same in any aspect of life.
Independence has been talked about since the Union and will continue for a long time. Doesn’t mean it’s happening.
Have to agree, usually it’s the sentiments of those uninformed on the subject who usually get all wound up about it and how Scotland is stealing jobs and work should be moved etc. they are literally doing more harm to the Union than just staying quiet, say nothing and the undecided voters remain undecided, opposed to pushing them towards yes with anti Scottish rhetoric.
South of the border lost its skilled workforce when the government tried pacify the SNP. It shouldnt have come north of the border while the SNP kept going on about their pipe dream.
It’s upto BAE and Babcock where they base there shipyards. Not the Scottish or Westminster government
While Scotland is part of the UK, if they obtain independence then the ships can nolonger be built in a foreign country by law, they would need to be moved south of the border. So it has nothing to do with BAE and Babcock if they want to continue to build them they would need to have a shipyard south of the border. That is the point that was been made and the government did actually have a say where they were built they told BAE/Baldock of their preferred site at the time.
Correct. If Scotland did decide to leave, warships for the remaining uk can’t be built there. Anyone who thinks that is going to happen is wrong. Defence companies would move to where the work is. Some folks seem to think warship building for the Uk is a much bigger deal than it is. Directly shipyards employ a few thousand people. The value of the contract that stays in the shipyard is not the total value of the contract. The ship yard just puts them all together. Would the Scottish economy collapse if warship construction stopped, no. It’s a headline grabbing… Read more »
This is why Devonport needs to be brought out of its mouthball state just incase.
There would be plenty time to get devonport up and running if Scotland actually left the uk. The breakup and transition period will be at least 3 years. I’m not prepared to only take 5 type 26 just to pay for devonport to sit idle. Or whatever would be cut to keep it running.
Sturgeon has said 12 months if the vote goes her way. Your not prepared to take only 5 !! But you would rather take the chance that Sturgeon gets her way that the possibility that she will hold the type 26 as hostage so she gets what she wants, having 5 is better than having 0 because she has decided to play dirty. I wouldn’t trust Sturgeon as far as I could throw her. She has proven to be dishonest even more than the Conservatives. With holding millions from my fellow Scots just so she can get her way.
Hear Hear
You’d hope they’d be a better choice of representative people for the general public to vote for. Time for unity, the building up of the economy, unified defence of Britain, proportionate divolved political and economic responsibilities, fair go and opportunities for everyone, respect for others, the environment and the law. It’s not too too high-brow really.
OK, I’m getting a bit fed up with with this constant, Constant Drumbeat. How many bangs do we need in one week. The message is understood loud and clear by everyone in UK Gov and MoD – but aimed at another audience. Hurting my ears now. A call from H&S, Ajax Division, is on the cards!
Ditto. Sick to death of hearing about it constantly.
So I had a butchers at the document in question knocked out by the Scottish Affairs Committee (SAC) What a myopic polarised piece of tosh. In a nutshell SAC demands that the Uk gov to only build ships in Scotland and nowhere else. Despite the fact that out of a committee of 11 MPs (5 are SNP and the liberal MP is married to an SNP MP) More than half support the breakaway of Scotland away from rUK. It kind of explains the angst expressed at the refurbishment of Belfast for shipbuilding which I suspect would be used to build… Read more »
I believe George submitted a written submission to the Committee hence the references.
Farouk, just a note, completely agree on what you have said, but please don’t fall into the nationalist trap and call the UK rUK, if Scotland left it would still be the United Kingdom…let’s not let the nationalists Pretend they can take our our nation name way from us.
Jonathen, well actually No. If Scotland became independent then the remaining England Wales N.Ireland is Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Great Britain was formed when England incorporated Wales I think in 1301. The United Kingdom is the Union of Scotland and England at the request of the Scots when their Darian project backrupted the country. However, England could use the term United Kingdom as until the 9th century England was made up of seven diffrent kingdoms, Sussex, Essex,Kent, Mercia, East Anglia Bernicia and Deira. The last two formed a single kingdom Northumbria. Even here the use of Great Britain would… Read more »
Did Wales join England or was it conquered? I know Scotland joined through the act of Union.
King James the VI, I was known to favour a joining to make a single parliament
See my little timeline of a nation above.
So the formation of the UK is pretty complex but you have the following key events: 843 formation of the kingdom of Scotland ( it’s a bit hit and Miss but it’s an accepted time for the creation of the Scottish nation. 927 formation of the kingdom of England 1055 formation of the kingdoms of wales 1284 final conquest of wales by England, this was not a union. The crown of England kept the crown of wales as a personal union, not a union of nations. 1542 creation of the kingdom of Ireland 1535 and 1542 the laws of wales… Read more »
Thanks that helps with history of the nation a lot.
Yes, same here too. Thanks Jonathon. I’ll have to read this a few times for it to sink in. Didn’t have a clue about any of this as i moved to the colonies 🇦🇺 too early.. 😆
I see SME to mean small and medium size enterprises and i hadn’t heard it used the other way.
Just goes to show if using acronyms make it clear what they stand for at the start!
Wikipedia has it that 3 members are SNP, 6 conservatives, 1 Liberal Democrat, 3 Labour. Obviously all from Scotland. There job of the select committee is to scrutinise the government and say where they’re could do better among other things
Will future orders for ferries be made transparent?
😂😂
Really hope so. After contracts are awarded from a government the bids and the decision process should be made public.
If there’s sensitive info redact it
Maybe the committee should not be so lazy, Team Resolute will be building 3 ships for the 1,6bn Team UK would build 2 ships for the 1.6bn RN needs 3 ships not 2, so a no-brainer as they say. Team UK were using a version of a ferry that was providing less points for fuel and transfers compared to the winning bid. The BMT design is just better with crossover on the Tankers already in service
Additionaly the committee should know the Belfast is part of the UK, so fits the Nation Ship Building strategy.
As long as the SNP keep harping on about independence I think future ships should be allocated either to Belfast or a shipyard south of the border. If it means some Scots loose their jobs so be it, the priority for the government should be it can’t be open to blackmail if incomplete ship is north of the border if Scotland got its independence.
My thoughts as well. When Scotland decides to sink itself let’s make sure we have nothing chained to them that will go down with them.
I am all for a peoples self determination. However, it appears the SNP are not speaking for a majority of Scots ( depends who you believe ) Frankly, I think most of the rest of the UK are sick of hearing the whining, and funding a tin pot Marxist regime that cannot even reduce its drug related deaths and a host of other issues. If the Supreme Court makes a ruling? That should be the end of it. No it is not though, we hear more whining. Time to end devolution imo. It has not worked in the interest of… Read more »
Oddly it’s the rhetoric you spit that makes selling the advantages of the Union difficult, literally does no one any favours.
As I’ve also pointed out elsewhere, there’s a nation skills shortage, I don’t think you realise how strained ship building is and there are no yards sitting idly by with the required skilled works force to take on the work, fine to move the work but at least be realistic about the consequences, moving T26 and T31 would set back both projects by years, can the Royal Navy afford such delays?
When “rhetoric” equates to facts and reality? Thats when the SNP should pack up and go back into the hole from whence they came.
I think what you are seeing actually is a bit of a danger, England like Scotland has its own history and culture and there is a danger in the rise in English nationalism as a counter to the constant dialogue from the Scottish nationalists that is effectively anti English, Welsh and northern Irish. I’m an ardent Unionist, with welsh, Scot, English ( and Irish) family ( my Irish catholic great gran married a Protestant from Scotland and on the other side it’s English and Welsh and I’ve got family in three of the UKs nations). But even I sometimes just… Read more »
I’m surprised by how much folks outside of Scotland actually listen to Scottish politics. Most folks in Scotland pay less attention to it. It’s a limited power Parliament. I certainly don’t have any clue what the politicians of Wales or Cornwall say for example. one of SNP main points is to push independence and it always has been. It’s not why they are in power. They aren’t the main parties is one reason. The difference from rest of the uk is they made prescriptions free, child payments, allowed benefits to be paid more flexible like weekly if u choose. Increased… Read more »
I mean we can look at other small countries around the world and see how they fair, the UK is lagging behind the other G7 nations and the anchor is Brexit, when Labour and Tory alike so no to Single Market never mind rejoining you can see why so many people like the idea of leaving the UK, join EFTA and eventually the EU. UK has lowest growth (negative in fact) in the G7, lower standard of living than France or Germany. lower average earnings, higher retirement age, the list goes on. The reality is that the ground swell of… Read more »
Germany overtook our standard of living in 1960.France in 1970.
Brexit ?
UK was the fastest growing economy in G7 in 2021 and 2022.
Brexit ?
Sources IMF,World bank and OECD.
You need to find the sources of facts and stop reading media ‘interpretations’ of those facts. It takes a little longer but the truth is worth it.
Lots of different measurements make it hard to tell exactly what is happening.
The uk was the fastest growing economy after lockdown but it had lost more of its economic output previously so had more to catch up.
All the other G7 countries have got back to pre covid levels apart from the uk.
The current inflation is hurting everyone a lot and with gas prices back to pre invasion levels hopefully this will fall.
Fingers crossed for a good 2023, hopefully the economy can get back to growth and inflation falls back down.
🤣🤣👏👏👏
The BMT offering is by far the better ship for the job. They also offered 3 ships for the £1.6 Billion (not the 2 bodged ferries offered by the UK team). The requirement is for 3 ships, not 2. Hence non-compliance and ruled out. BMT’s tender will also be confidential and they very well know that. No doubt when they get told to swivel – they’ll spin that to their ‘advantage’. SAC should be reminded that Scotland is not the only country within the Union that has a shipbuilding industry to support. They have the monopoly on ‘warships’ & will… Read more »
☝ This
Regardless of anything else, the Team UK offering is a total POS. A converted ferry design. I doubt very much if it met the basic requirements of the Navy.
Minor point but when the FSS tender was restarted Wallace was forced to classify them as warships to appease Tory backbenchers who though the work might go to Spain or South Korea.
But they don’t have to be classed as warships to procure them only from our own yards..that is pure UK procurement rules we have inflicted on ourselves. If it’s related to national security your not bound by any international procurement laws.
The Scottish Affairs select committee is not some SNP voice box. It’s has more tories and Labour in it. 7 tories and 3 Labour. Only 3 SNP.
The affairs committee is to look at what is best for Scotland and how to advance that issue.
Other select committees cover other regions and topics and operate under exact same way.
This message does the rounds every year for decades .
Team UK bid was a cartel, effectively attempting leverage the politics and tying in all the main UK yard to one team, this is not in the spirit of a competitive bid. The biggest risk to UK shipbuilding is having zero competition = expensive ships = reduced numbers. Some parts are always ordered overseas be it steel, engines, microchips, plastics etc so why is there a big fuss when some blocks come from overseas. The massive upside of the Team Resolute bid is a UK yard will learn how to build supply ships from one of the best making it… Read more »
The irony as SNP has orders more ferries from outside Scotland and UK, whilst their own yard is recovering thanks to T26 work provided by the UK government.
Now once the MROSS ships get back on the plan anyone else suspect that H&W will be in prime position and that CL will get some block work (maybe equivalent to the bits Navantia are doing on the FSSS.
I think ALL UK ship building contracts should be retained by member nations NOT wating to leave the UK, I believe we should be drawing down on UK military expenditure and bases in Scotland
Still plenty of room on the Tyne, Wear & Tees to restart ship building, Get the jobs back to people who would be greatful for the jobs.
I think plans have been submitted to turn one of the covered shipyards into a film studio on the river wear. (Link)
Hell yeah to that. The Scots have an uneven share of the spending and still cry like babies. The North East of England would take on the work and be proud of it.
I fed up with hearing ” its not the Scots” its the SNP, but they keep relecting the SNP time after time, 90% of Scots media parrots the SNP message. The Scots GOVERNMENT is still campaigning to take them out of the UK, therefore the UK government should NOT give more contracts to, and should be cutting back on current contracts. Move the defence roles back south where they will be welcome.
Which would just alienate more Scots and push them from the unionist to the independence camp…
So what? With all their subsidies etc they cost the rest of the UK more than they are worth. We are better off without them. Cut them off completely and let them sink without trace.
Hear hear.
Well that criteria applies to Wales and Northern Ireland too. Heck if the U.K. wants to be affluent let’s cut off the poor parts of England too, Cornwall, the North, East Anglia…
And just just think how much better we could be if we dumped everything outside of London…
Don’t mistake the rankings of the SNP for the opinion of the Scottish people.
So a double win then.
Only for bigots.
Aye Scotland has plenty of those, they are actually running the place.
Thanks, reading this makes it a lot easier to decide which way to vote in an referendum.
Why don’t you push your local politicians to take your Region out of the uk.
Some Northern Ireland politicians want to leave the uk. That must mean they should go aswell.
Oh don’t forget the Welsh or Cornwall. They have people that want to leave.
As I’ve stated before I voted twice SNP and other parties other times and I didn’t support independence. They were the best of a bad bunch and offered what was best for me in my situation at that time.
It’s politics, they say lots of stuff.
Have you seen Westminster? Shouting and booing like a nut house. Some say really crazy stuff that hardly anyone agrees with. But it gets said.
The difference is we never hear anything from Scotland other than the constant wailing from wee krankie and her cronies! Here in NI we have republicans but it’s not being pushed in your face 24/7. Anyway we haven’t a Govt at the moment so it really doesn’t matter what the DUP,SF etc get up too 🙄
I hardly watch the news so don’t really hear the independence thing.
Hopefully NI gets a government soon. Westminster rule is not good enough for the people.
You voted SNP but don’t support independence? I am at a loss to fathom why you might think Scotland is better governed by a party obsessed with one singular issue and is chronically distracted from governing competently, and has a vested interest in making sure the Union and the relationship with Westminster is as dysfunctional and ineffective as possible to the detriment of everyone except themselves.
Hear Hear
I’m happy and proud to be English and part of the UK and my country has not whinged for 300 years about being part of the UK that they begged to join as the Scots have. if they want to remain part of the UK they would not keep voting SNP in huge numbers. Either way is a bad idea to put UK defence spending in a country that keeps electing a rabidly Anglophobic government that wants out of the UK.
At least there will be some space for war ships with the ferries Scotland is building in Turkey 🇹🇷
Last time i looked Belfast,which the i think they are referring to. Was and still IS still part of the UK. Jimmy and her krankies will always find something to whinge about. She needs to be careful what she wishes for because independence would surely mean no more RN ships built in Scotland?
If the Scots want and get independence (?) it will take years to disengage. I suspect existing contracts will all be honoured and ships completed. Warship building could move to Plymouth and/or Falmouth. Plymouth constructed battleships up until WW2 and Falmouth has one of the deepest harbours in the world.
Nuclear boats could move to anywhere with deep water and temporarily if need be to our two AUKUS pals in the U.S. or Australia.
Well may be a hit to Scotland but in my mind it’s a win for the rest of the UK. Also a certain irony that Scotland itself may be a foreign Country in the thirties so claiming that such naval ships should be built here may become a literal problem for Scotland or doesn’t it count in those circumstances.
The big issue here is that the navy doesn’t order enough ships on a consistent basis to keep all ship yards going hence numerous have closed. It’s like suddenly this decade feast on frigates but next decade even if the type 32 gets built then what anyway. A few (6 maybe if we’re very lucky 8 destroyers) will keep one ship yard busy if we get on with it but likely to be back and fourth, can we afford it or not until 2040..
Sure,y the 4 new ferries recently ordered by the Scottish government shouldhVe bee placed in U.K. yards rather than giving the builds to Turkish shipbuilders
They can’t have it both ways, expect gov.U.K. To supply shipbuilding to Scotland, when Scotland used foreignrezources
The UK national shipbuilding strategy is supposed to be for UK shipyards. FSSS will see if Harland and Wolff’s group of facilities grow in terms of investment in people (and more people) and modernisation in facilities. The learning from Navantia and getting shipyard 4.0 will be important and time will tell. The loss in orders of ferries mostly from the Scottish admin is worrying as it is getting ships that are not cheaper on face price and more expensive especially when tax and wages and circulation of the blood (money) is taken into account. Bad subsidy which Erdogon is practising… Read more »