The Ministry of Defence is looking at the size and composition of frigate fleet as part of the Modernising Defence Programme, hinting that there could be more than 5 Type 31e frigates with some even having ASW capabilities.

Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said at a Defence Select Committee meeting, when asked about any intention on expanding the number of Type 31e Frigates to be built:

“We’re looking at that as part of the Modernising Defence Programme. If there’s opportunities going forward to expand on that [the fleet size] we’d look at that as part of the Modernising Defence Programme.”

Plans to acquire a new class of “more affordable” Type 31 Frigate were announced as part of the 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review.

It is understood that the Type 26 Frigate will primarily support carrier task group operations while the Type 31 is to be deployed for a range of less high-tempo operations.

The original planning assumption for the Royal Navy was for thirteen Type 26 Frigates (eight Anti-Submarine Warfare and five General Purpose variants), replacing the Type 23 frigate fleet like-for-like. However, it was later announced during the November 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review by then Prime minister David Cameron that only the eight anti-submarine warfare Type 26 frigates would be ordered. The funding for the remaining five general purpose Type 26 frigates is instead to be spent on developing a new class of lighter and more affordable general purpose frigates.

This general purpose frigate has been designated the Type 31 frigate.

Babcock and BMT recently signed a cooperation agreement which could see the Type 31e Frigate built in Rosyth, Scotland if their bid is successful.

Babcocks ‘Arrowhead’ design for the Type 31e programme.

Recently it was reported that Babcock International was keen to challenge BAE Systems dominance and is interested in bidding for the £2Bn Type 31e contract. We understand that Rosyth in Scotland is the preferred build and assembly location for the joint bid.

The companies say that arrangement draws on the combined strengths of Babcock and BMT and will deliver ‘innovative, capable, affordable and flexible customer solutions, within a fast changing and increasingly demanding environment’.

Babcock say that the Arrowhead design lends itself equally to either a single build strategy, or a cross–site build strategy bringing together modules – an approach used for aircraft carrier assembly at Rosyth.

BAE Systems also announced it would partner with Cammell Laird, who would ‘Prime, build and assemble’ the vessels at their Merseyside facility while the Clyde will focus on the Type 26 Frigates.Cammell Laird would be main contractor with BAE providing design and combat systems.

A BAE concept design for Type 31e.

BAE say the move will allow them to ‘appropriately support the National Shipbuilding Strategy’ whilst ensuring the delivery of the five Offshore Patrol Vessels and the first three City class Type 26 frigates currently on contract, ‘to time, budget and to the highest quality standards.’

The option to build the Type 31e frigates in blocks reflects how the biggest ship ever built for the Royal Navy, HMS Queen Elizabeth, was constructed. The aircraft carrier was built in blocks by over 10,000 people in six main British cities.

Tony Douglas, the Chief Executive Officer of DE&S, said,

“The Type 31e programme will drive the change that is needed through the entire system, because we have set tough time and cost constraints.

The collective challenge for DE&S and industry is to deliver Type 31e in a different, more innovative way than has gone before. I want this to be a transformation in the way we do business – not just in ships and acquisition but across the entire defence equipment and support portfolio.”

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[…] post Royal Navy frigate fleet may be expanded hints Defence Secretary appeared first on UK Defence […]

T.S
Guest

Where does he mention ASW capabilities in his quotation? Hopefully there was more not stated in the article.
If true, I wonder if they are designing a quiet ship or if they will just bolt on sonar.
I see us getting 8 T31. But the big question is, will they then drop the numbers of T26????

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Hopefully not but I think they will.

6 T26 6 T45 and 8 T31.

Helions
Guest
Helions

If the RN only builds 6 T26, then its availability rate for CSG ASW escort will be too low. They would HAVE to include ASW capable T31’s in the mix which might be why they’re bring adding the capability to the T31 mix… Pity.

Cheers!

Helions
Guest
Helions

Sorry for the typos! TINY tablet…

Cheers!

maurice10
Guest
maurice10

I’m sure the type 26’s will achieve the planned numbers, as the carrier groups will need their support; especially if both carriers are deployed simultaneously. As for more 31’s that will depend on ‘Global Britain’ and what trade/military compacts are established. Another advantage of additional 31’s would be the opportunity to permanently station RN vessels abroad.

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

It is not going below 8 Type 26. It is simply not possible for carrier and deterrent duties.

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

stuff the scottish yards, the rate at which they get ships built is far too slow 1 for 1 replacements for the type 23 must come with a time expectation, when awarding contracts.

Callum
Guest
Callum

It’s not the Scottish yards fault for the extended construction of the T26. The workrate was artificially slowed because the money wasn’t available to pay for a quicker build. Ironically this increases overall cost, but it does improve cash flow

andy reeves
Guest
andy reeves

nobody ever gives an estimated build time, after all the fleet needs ships asap.not eventually

Rob Collinson
Guest
Rob Collinson

Where is he going to get both the money and sailers from?

T.S
Guest

All the new platforms coming on line are lean manned so more can be crewed from the same number of sailors.
Money is my concern, what do we loose in return or are they getting extra funds?

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

No they cant be manned.
The RN has a massive short fall in Engineers. You can have all the TAS Apes, Dabbers, Buntings and Loggies you want but without the engineers the ships don’t move and they cant fight.

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

They will just have to try and tempt them all back and keep them with golden handcuffs.

Sean
Guest
Sean

I suspect in the long term mine operations will be seen as one on the mission modules that can be accomodated aboard the T31 as needed. This will allow them to wind down the dedicated mine-hunters and sweepers, saving money and freeing up personnel to crew the T31s.
If that is the case, they’ll need to up the T31 order numbers.

Zack
Guest
Zack

If they stopped doing the stupid SJW recruitment campaigns they could get the men and i feel the military budgets gonna get a big boost next year

Mr J Bell
Guest
Mr J Bell

Money can always be found when the government need it.
£34 billion EU exit bill Vs £250 million frigate, I know which one I support and advocate.
Sailors is a problem the MOD just needs to improve pay, conditions and terms of service so that the armed forces are more appealing as a career and lifestyle option.

Chris
Guest
Chris

(Chris H) Mr J Bell – the £34 Bn EU exit bill is a cost we have elected to pay to rightly honour commitments given by earlier Governments plus the costs of UK personnel pensions of 20+ years. So it isn’t a one off payment of £34 Bn. Had we remained in the EU we would have paid £26 Bn over the remaining two years to the end of the EU spending round and then £13 Bn+ a year forever after …. Having said that as the EU keeps saying ‘nothing is agreed until everything is agreed’ and if we… Read more »

Rob
Guest
Rob

Another 3 so 8 T31s, 8 T26s, and 6 T45s would be realistic.

Chris
Guest
Chris

A truly credible fleet but only if the RN can get a grip on manning issues though. I know its getting better (and is still way better than the army) but theres still some ways to go yet.

Rob
Guest
Rob

Indeed but there is time to get it right before that fleet could be in the water.

Ben P
Guest
Ben P

The jump to 31/26 from 23 will remedy some manning issues. Less crew needed.

Chris
Guest
Chris

This is just a fantasy of mine but id really like to see manning levels where we can rotate crews through the escort fleet like they do for HMS Protector and the Echo Class – could lead to longer/more permanent overseas deployments.

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

They are doing this on the MCMVs and it has been looked at for T23s especially if they foreign port a T23 in the Mid East which has been under serious consideration

Paul.P
Guest
Paul.P

Yes, but do 8 Type 31 become harder to fund if better ASW capability and hull becomes a primary requirement? The Khareef derived Leander has electric drive. Does the Babcock Arrowhead?

Wads
Guest
Wads

I am sorry to say I don’t read it like that. Sounds like only 6 T26 will eventually be ordered with the 2 plus one spare 2087 sonar kits transferred to an ASW version of T31. If the T26 are going to be just for carrier strike, then like the T45, only 6 will be needed (as perceived by the MoD).

Paul
Guest
Paul

Don’t agree only 6 will be needed, you don’t need AAW destroyers to support the CASD, but you do need ASW frigates.

Callum
Guest
Callum

So if someone fires a salvo of AShMs at your task force, you don’t think you need a dedicated air defence destroyer to protect your multi billion pound carrier and the thousands of sailors aboard?

Every aspect of a carrier group is vital, you miss out on a single part and you’re risking lives and assets unnecessarily.

Paul
Guest
Paul

CASD = Continually At Sea Deterant.

Andy G
Guest
Andy G

Plus 2 for detterent duties

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

We have 11 sets of sonar 2087. There will be 8 Type 26s built for a few reasons. Type 31 won’t go to the Clyde yards so cutting 2 Type 26s would be politically unacceptable. Also type 31 will not be a good platform to host a TAS, not for £250 million at least. If they are quiet enough to make proper use of a hull mounted sonar (2050) we will have done well. 8 ASW hulls is the requirement set by the RN to cover carrier escort and support CASD so 8 ASW hulls we will get. It makes… Read more »

Thatguy
Guest
Thatguy

A few more t45s and t26s wouldn’t go a miss either, and submarines and auxiliaries ocean replacement, but realistically I can see the t26 order being reduced again for more asw t31s, we really need to get the balance of quantity and quality right and I don’t think it is and will be.

Chris
Guest
Chris

More 45’s would never be ordered seeing as the production lines have been closed for years now.

David
Guest
David

Agreed Chris but it would be good to see them fitted with Mk41 VLS. Daring has been in service since 2010 and there is still no sign of she – or her sisters – ever being fitted with them. We design fantastic ships and then woefully under arm them – it’s a shame to see such potential lost in the Type 45.

To answer my own question in part, I had read elsewhere that the money intended for the Mk41 is now being used to fund the propulsion issues. Does anyone know if this is true?

Chris
Guest
Chris

The most pressing issue in the short run should be to fit them all permanently with Harpoon instead of swapping around 4 out of the 6. But yes in the future Mk41 would be nice along with LRASM or NSM so Harpoon can be withdrawn.

Paul
Guest
Paul

The RN will not get any more Type 45’s that boat has sailed. What you might find is that if Australia pick the Type 26 and build it with the CEAFAR. Then the next batch of RN Type 26 come with enhanced Air warfare capabilities, As such they might be able to assist more in the air defence of the CBG than at present.

Helions
Guest
Helions

The UK would be doing itself no favors cutting T26 numbers as they try for export orders because each cut is going to skyrocket the per unit cost and that will not play well in the export arena…

Cheers

Thatguy
Guest
Thatguy

Yes we are woefully low on AAW capabilities, an AAW based on the t26 would be worth looking into but none of this is going to happen but we could go on and on about what the forces need but we need to be realistic I suppose!

Thatguy
Guest
Thatguy

In true British form make the most of what you got and don’t complain about what you don’t!

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

There will be 8 Type 26 built. The schedule can’t possibly be slowed any further and we won’t need AAW hulls until almost 2040. What will they be building in the decade long gap?

Anthony
Guest
Anthony

With the development of the unmanned mine clearance capability, containerised and deployed from a mission bay, could the type 31 fleet be increased to cover off the MCM and maybe even hydrographic fleet. They really would be general purpose and would allow phase out of 14 smaller specialist vessels and reuse of crew.

Sceptical Richard
Guest
Sceptical Richard

Mmm… to be honest, personally, I’d rather build more OPVs, stop the T26 at 8, no T31 and build one more Astute instead.

Paul.P
Guest
Paul.P

Interesting idea. I could imagine a River 2 variant which had 57mm, a few Sea Ceptor launchers and maybe a containerised towed sonar or UAV. And maybe another variant with the crane replaced with a hangar. More OPVs would kind of be in the direction of the Black Swan sloop lf war concept that was mooted a while back, sort of Black Swan squadrons.

Callum
Guest
Callum

OPVs that do nothing to address the shortage of escorts the fleet already faces. Honestly, we’d be better with the opposite: if T31 does come to £250mn as planned, you could get one frigate for the price of two River B2s. In an ideal world, instead of buying 5 new OPVs we’d have gotten 2 more frigates and several lower end OPVs (there is absolutely no need for an OPV to be manufactured to military standards, nor have the quality of sensor suite that the River B2s have, its just gold plating), but hey ho. Extra hunter killers would be… Read more »

Stephen G.
Guest
Stephen G.

Yes, more type 31s and a few diesel electric subs as a cheap way to boost numbers.

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

It would be way cheaper and easier to crew another SSN than a class of 4/5 SSKs. Astute number 8 would cost just over a billion and require 98 crew. A fleet of 4/5 SSKs would cost over 2 billion (unless we can do it cheaper than Japan, Germany or Sweden) and require some 200+ crew. There would also need to be a new training pipeline set up and spares and maintenance arranged. That’s before we even consider the many shortcomings of SSKs, like range and endurance. If you can afford them you build SSNs every time.

Jim
Guest
Jim

Or mutiple modern non nuclear off the peg (have no idea of the relative cost though)

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

We need something capable of NGFS as with only 6 AAW & 8 ASW they won’t be doing it and neither will a River with a pop gun. Totally agree on an eighth Astute but stop River Batch 2 at 5 and retain Clyde for FIGS.

Paul.P
Guest
Paul.P

Crisply put. The Type 31 core gun requirement can be met by a 57mm which BAE are on record as saying that would be their preferred choice. Babcock I would guess would propose the OTO 76mm. We all would like the Mk 45 5in but at probably £30-40m a pop and given that there are no plans to replace the Mk 8 on Type 45 I see transferring the Mk8s across from the Type 23s as a good option.

HF
Guest
HF

‘The aircraft carrier was built in blocks by over 10,000 people in six main British cities’ – as I remember the tory lie was that they were being ordered to keep Gordon Brown’s constituents happy. I also remember Cameron claiming credit for various ship orders when they had been ordered long before he was in office.

Kevin Lawson
Guest
Kevin Lawson

The ships may have been ordered before Cameron came to office, however the contracts were only signed at the very end of Labours term of office so it was subsequent governments had to pay the bill.The plan was after all to have the 2 aircraft carriers fully operational years ago

Geoffrey Roach
Guest
Geoffrey Roach

Cost of one T 26 equals 4/5 T 31’s and crewing is respectively suggested as being approximately 120 and 90 to 100 against 180 for a T 23. So…960 people required for eight T 26’s leaving sufficient crew members for 12 to 15 T 31’s. Now, there’s a thought!

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

No…Naval manning does not work like that.
The RN has a shortage of engineers. It doesn’t matter if you have an abundance of chefs, loggies, dabbers or Tas Apes they cannot maintain or fix a vessel or keep the systems working.

John West
Guest
John West

T31 doesn’t even exist as a design yet.

If we need more frigates, build more T26. We don’t have to build all of them in Scotland.

Let BMT/Babcock produce designs for LPD’s/LPH’s which we don’t yet need.

John Clark
Guest
John Clark

8 (preferably 10) T31’s plus the 5 River 2’s would allow much greater operational flexibility for the RN.

Daniele Mandelli
Guest
Daniele Mandelli

Exactly. Keep the T45 and T26 for their main roles.

M Heron
Guest
M Heron

You are forgetting OMT the people that designed & built the Absalon support ship are now teamed up/partnered with Babcock/BMT. http://www.janes.com/article/79077/babcock-brings-omt-into-the-fold-for-type-31e-bid I like the idea of the Type 31e frigate being a multi-role/flexible support ship than a general purpose vessel. If they went with the flexible support route they can adapt the design to suit whatever role they require (Stanflex modules or UK Equivalent). The addition of a “Flex Deck” will be a bonus if added to the design. The modular approach will allow a 24 hour adaption/conversion process which will be a massive (but temporary) boost to the Royal… Read more »

Bill
Guest
Bill

The manning/womaning?? Of the fleet must be solved. Tax free incentives for longer service and maybe a golden handshake as well at the end. We’re probably talking £20k pp perhaps £100m every 10 years and that’s just for the RN.
We have to attract more young people into the armed forces, some more skilled than others as the equipment used becomes more highly sophisticated. More money is not the sole answer but it is the main one.

Stephen G.
Guest
Stephen G.

Better pay, and also better advertising on tv e.g. scenes of ships battling through stormy seas, jets, helicopters, macho young men shooting guns, ribs doing jumps over waves, etc. one after the other, this is what will attract young men who are in their late teens/early 20s into the Navy.

Andy A
Guest
Andy A

What instead of politically correct rubbish adverts the MOD just wasted millions on

Marc
Guest
Marc

Or women.

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

Its all been tried. The people the MOD is aiming at for bonus payments ( I was one of them) are savvy , intelligent , have a stable family with kids and are generally switched on. I was offered a cash bonus. Once it was taxed at 40%, divided by the years of service I would have to commit to do to avoid paying it all back then it worked out at around 2k a year. 2k a year for 5 years of which you will spend at least 60% of that time separated from your family doing probably 2… Read more »

Steve
Guest
Steve

Has there been any research into what is causing people to leave the service? Do we know if it is money as the main driver or are there other more key factors, increased money may not actually solve the problem.

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

Its Pay, Conditions of service, the new pension scheme, the manning black hole, under manning, branch changes, pay 2000 legacy issues, the OM branch legacy debacle, the list goes on and on…

David E Flandry
Guest
David E Flandry

The big reduction in numbers after 2010 meant fewer opportunities for promotion also. Someone should do some creative thinking in order to attract and keep engineers.

William Edmead
Guest
William Edmead

I think the ‘Made in the Royal Navy’ ads were excellent. The recent documentary on the QE was very good as well. Too many 15 year olds on board for my liking. God, some of them looked so young!

Stephen G.
Guest
Stephen G.

The Navy definitely needs enlarged, up the defence budget from 2% to 3%. Spend the money on more Type 31s and Astutes, this is where we need increased numbers. A few more o.p.v.s wouldn’t go amiss either. I think it would be best for Cammel Laird to build the Type 31s and Rosyth, with their gantry crane and large dry dock, should be given the solid support ships. It made (some) sense to build the aircraft carriers in blocks from all over the country as they were so large, that should be kept to a minimum on the Type 31s… Read more »

John
Guest
John

Pay has nothing to do with it, successive governments cut our armed forces meaning those left deploy more resulting in burn out/ low morale and civvie life then starting to look better. Now armed forces facing more monetery cuts because they are an easy target when an axe is to fall. Heaven forbid MP’s gold plated pensions/perks and pay should ever be touched. No party has our armed forces best interest at heart, not one of them.

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

Pay has everything to do with it. You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
Engineers are not monkeys and know know what they are worth in Civvy street and they can see the MOD does not give a toss about them . The pension is no longer what it was, Terms and conditions are a joke, MQs…thats a whole other article just there…, separation from families, burn out…
All reasons why they are leaving and not getting recruited.

Steve
Guest
Steve

one of the biggest problems with the civil service in general, including the armed forces, is that the final salary pension scheme is massively undervalued with people preferring £1 today than £3 at pension age (with today’s low interest rates this is a realistic comparision). This is something that people only really realise at pension age, but not sure how to fix it. There was some research a few years back looking at NHS nurses pay vs private nurses and nhs actually paid more once the pension was taken into account and yet they are perceived to be paid less.… Read more »

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

The armed forces pay review body report 2017 lists the bigest reasons for leaving the service and what the biggest gripes are. Pay, Seperation, breaking of the RN rules on Sep Service, working hours, pension. 60% of RN staff are not happy with pay, pension, allowances. I know matelots like to drip but a 60% pissed off level is outrageous. Regarding naval manning from Oct 17. After this time they changed the way the figures are published ( Hid them?) As you can see Engineers have a big short fall. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/659123/20171106_-_FINAL_-_RN_RM_Monthly_Situation_Report__rounded_.pdf The loss of engineers is down from a high… Read more »

farouk
Guest
farouk

Meanwhile Janes is reporting this: UK parliamentarian proposes putting retired Type 23 frigates in ASW reserve A UK member of parliament, Mark Francois, has proposed that the Royal Navy’s Type 23 anti-submarine warfare (ASW) frigates be placed in a war reserve when they are retired, instead of being sold or scrapped. The proposal was made to Secretary of Defence Gavin Williamson during a 22 May defence committee inquiry on US, NATO, and UK defence relations. While describing the new Type 26 ASW frigate as “a highly capable ship” and “world class”, Francois said that “there will only be eight, and… Read more »

Anthony
Guest
Anthony

https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/?m=1

Good rebuttal of reserve fleets.

Levi Goldsteinberg
Guest
Levi Goldsteinberg

I’ll believe it when I see it. The problem of lack of available surface fleet is just the tip of the iceberg

John Clark
Guest
John Clark

The War Reserve idea is utter nonsense, at least as far as the highly complex warships today.

The cost of keeping some T23’s in a preserved state would be steep, plus, they would require refit and upgrades and training a whole crew …. Who aren’t available to crew them anyway!

The T23 has given exceptional service to the RN, a great design … But they have had their day and need to be replaced by the proposed T26/31 mix asap.

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

We have a war reserve in all but name now because we cannot man up a T45 or a T23 so they sit alongside as “harbor training vessels”…Whats the difference?

John Clark
Guest
John Clark

I would say the difference is one is “supposedly” in commission, while the other would be locked down, filled with humming dehumidifiers.

Steve
Guest
Steve

to me it should be done. In a retracted war situation, it would be way faster to get them out of mothball and train a crew up than to build new ships. they are competent sub hunters today and likely to stay that for decades in the future, at least as 2nd line of defence role.

However it can’t happen, as they are stripping the current ships of their weapons and sonar and a mothballed ship without them is close useless.

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

What good would they do? We are stripping all the weapons and sensors off them for types 26 & 31.

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

The harbour training ships are not going to go to sea anytime soon. They get STOROB’d blind. Their machinery is in need of an overhaul/refit which has been defered to save money. They would be better off closed off and dehumidified . Although they did the same with Albion when Bulwark was Fleet Amphib and she ended up being robbed and it cost a fortune to bring her back on line to take over from bulwark.

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

Pretty sure that will be true of Lancaster but I am more hopeful in regard to Dauntless as there should be no need with project Napier and the relatively young age of the ship. Also plenty of new parts where acquired as part of the PIP.

Gunbuster
Guest
Gunbuster

Lancaster may well be going somewhere warm for the next 3 years…

Sceptical Richard
Guest
Sceptical Richard

Money is short. It will not change. We cannot afford everything. So, the question must be what is the minimum we MUST have to achieve the desired effect. To deploy one carrier, one LPD, two Bays, two tankers, one dry stores ship and a small number of MCMVs you probably need a minimum of two T45s and four T26s. To generate that number, the current planned number of hulls is probably enough. Then we have to accept that while we are doing that we cannot do anything else. This is all assuming of course a deployment on our own without… Read more »

Julian
Guest
Julian

Interesting. On the OPV evolution will the next gen mothership + USV MCM concept be mature enough to be what is procured to replace the RN’s Hunt & Sandown? If yes then I wonder whether any more investment in OPVs should wait until Hunt/Sandown replacement is in detailed planning in case the most cost-effective way to boost OPV numbers is to run an extra ship or two onto whatever is built for that. I have absolutely no idea of cost and how expensive all the MCM features might make it but from a basic OPV perspective the BMT Venari 85… Read more »

Sceptical Richard
Guest
Sceptical Richard

Julian, the Venari concept for me is the answer to all my prayers in terms of the concept that I have outlined. Either that or modify the existing OPVs to look as close to it as possible. You don’t need T31. They’ll talk and talk about it. It’ll become an excuse for doing nothing. And if it does materialise, the admirals will ensure it ends up being almost as expensive as a T26 and we’ll only end up having three at most. Waste of money. Might as well have another T26, or worse, we’ll end up ordering fewer T26 and… Read more »

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

I disagree. We need a GP hull to compliment types 45 & 26. We don’t however need any more than 6 and they don’t need to be very fancy. Leander looks perfect. Hull mounted sonar & Wildcat for ASW, Artisan & Sea Ceptor for AAW, deck launched ASMs for ASuW and a 5 inch gun for NGFS. They will be good for ATPN & ATPS or FRE or NATO Task Forces 150/151 or part of a RN Task Force. Not sure about Venari or any other MCMV concepts. If it’s all stand off capability in the future then why bother… Read more »

Anthony
Guest
Anthony

It would be good to see the River class taking over the constabulary roles in Carribbean, Falklands, East Africa. Freeing type 31 to build defence relationships in gulf and far east (OPVs don’t have the cache to do Def England). In turn leaving type 26 and 45 to focus on carrier strike/amphibious, casd launch/recovery with Poseidon, contributions and leadership to NATO standing maritime groups. We must remember NATO is likely to significantly flesh out carrier strike in event high end fight.

Julian
Guest
Julian

“Not sure about Venari or any other MCMV concepts. If it’s all stand off capability in the future then why bother with dedicated ships.” It might all be marketing hype to create a perception that their solution is needed when it isn’t really, I have no expertise to judge that, but BMT’s attempt to answer your question is contained in that V85 technical brief that I linked to. The document spends almost as much time discussing mine warfare tactics than it does V85 details. There is lots of stuff in there about the different tactics and scenarios. Channel Standoff in… Read more »

andyreeves
Guest
andyreeves

more ships , of course yes, but faster than they are being produced, its just too slow. if the battleship dreadnought was built at portsmouth within a year, BAE, the clyde et al should be told in no uncertain terms that the out put from their yards, is not good enough and that time in production could be a point in the awarding of future contracts. if the mighty ‘dread’ was built in a year then the clyde should be able to produce at least two ships per year.

David Stephen
Guest
David Stephen

It’s not BAE responsible for the glacial build schedule it’s the MoD. BAE could have the first Type 26 finished by 2024 and the 8th by 2030ish but the MoD has decided that’s not needed (can’t be afforded). We need a frigate delivered every year from 2023 through 2035. It looks like the current plan is 5 Type 31s delivered in 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026 and 2027. Then Type 26 delivered in 2028 through 2035 when we get the 8th hull.

T.S
Guest

Andy, it’s not a case of can’t! HMG are deliberately slowing the build rate to save short term money, hence also ordering in small batches. But all this means we pay far more in the long run. Bae could ramp up T26 with a bit of notice, and this should be the case. Japan have just finished designing their new frigate and expect delivery early 2020’s. With the current threat levels we need to match this build rate. 2025 is a joke especially as most of the kit on board is already proven on other platforms.

Jonathan
Guest
Jonathan

It’s all about sustainability as well as coat control within year. Yes I’m sure we could throw money to get the BAE workforce and infrastructure up to building two frigates a year, but after we have built all 8 26s and 6 31s in 7 years but what are they doing for the following 15-20 years unit the navy needs a new frigate. They will be being made redundant, the skills lost and the yards closed. The work has to feed to the yards so they are always building complex ships at a sustainable rate, you can’t just turn complex… Read more »

M Heron
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M Heron

BMT/Babcock have brought in OMT who designed & built the Absalon class frigate/support ship. If the type 31 they propose is anything like the Absalon the versatility and export potential could be a big selling point. A graphic released by the Royal Navy stressed modular adaptability and flexible construction of the design for export opportunities. Core requirements of the Type 31e frigate include 76mm or larger calibre gun, point defence systems, hangar and a flight deck for Wildcat or ten tonne helicopter operated by a crew of around 100 with space for 40 more personnel. If the BMT/Babcock Type 31… Read more »

Siro
Guest
Siro

Reported in the Plymouth Herald that the retention of 1000 Royal Marines and the Albion and Bulwark are to be retained at the expense of 3 Royal Navy frigates which are to be mothballed!!

Paul.P
Guest
Paul.P

Main gate for T31 is Q4 this year. Construction is due to start early 2019. If they build a first batch of 3 promptly ( and if the retired frigates are GP) there need be no loss of ships or capability. Have all the T23 got 997 radar? If not then mothball 3 that don’t and build new ships.

rec
Guest
rec

Having listened to the select committee on NATO, all the defence Secretary repeated was 7 Astute, 8 T26 and 9 Poseidon. He seemed to be emphasizing change of priorities and not increased funding.

Darren Sharrocks
Guest
Darren Sharrocks

You need 40 ships of this type, min or just go home back to Portsmouth and forget it