With Russia on the offensive around Avdiivka in the east of Ukraine, most commentators’ attention is once again focused on the battlefield on land.

But it’s also crucial to keep a close watch on what is happening in the Black Sea.

On October 24, Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, made the claim that: “The Russian fleet is no longer able to operate in the western part of the Black Sea and is gradually fleeing from Crimea. And this is a historic achievement.”


This article is the opinion of the authors and not necessarily that of the UK Defence Journal. If you would like to submit your own article on this topic or any other, please see our submission guidelines.


Following attacks on the Sevastopol shipyard on September 13 and on the Black Sea fleet headquarters on September 22, it has been reported that Russia is redeploying key naval assets away from their main base.

The fleet reportedly intends to base itself increasingly in two safer ports: Novorossiysk and Feodosia, on either sides of the Kerch strait connecting eastern Crimea with the Russian mainland. There are even reports of plans to build naval facilities in the breakaway Georgian region of Abkhazia. Whether this is a partial redeployment or a major one, and whether this is a long- or short-term redeployment, this demonstrates a new strategic reality in the Black Sea.

Even without an operational navy, Ukraine can threaten and hit Russian ships as far away as Sevastopol and beyond. Kyiv has developed a credible capability to engage Russia’s naval assets at long distances, using missiles and maritime drones.

This is a major problem for Moscow. Warships are often the most expensive individual military assets in a country’s arsenal. Complex naval vessels can take decades to procure and make operational. For instance, in the UK, the procurement cycle for warships is often considered over a 30-year period.

Reduced capabilities

Russia has a very limited number of warships in the Black Sea, and due to the application of the Montreux Convention by Turkey, Moscow cannot reinforce its Black Sea fleet with warships from its Baltic or Northern fleets.

Consequently, protecting its remaining assets is a key objective for Russia, since the Black Sea fleet cannot reasonably afford to lose more. That might explain the redeployment. If confirmed, this can be considered a major victory for Ukraine, both at operational and symbolic levels.

As of now and in the foreseeable future, Russia has less capacity to service and repair damaged ships and submarines in the Black Sea. Sevastopol dry docks are currently not fully functioning and the port of Novorossiysk in the eastern Black Sea does not have the same capability, especially for submarines.

With warships requiring regular maintenance – and an indefinite number in need of repair due to the recent attacks – we can expect a backlog to build up. This could be significant if more warships sustain damage in the short-to-mid term.

Thus, the Black Sea fleet will have to be very prudent with its remaining assets, which might result in a reduced number of operational deployments in the foreseeable future. The fewer Russian ships operating in close vicinity to Ukraine, the more room for manoeuvre there is for Kyiv to launch further attacks on Crimea and the Black Sea fleet, contributing to a positive loop of victories and opportunities.

Russia’s limited options

Ukraine has gradually reduced the Black Sea fleet’s ability to contribute to Russia’s war effort such that, effectively, Russia has lost control of the Black Sea. Its surface ships cannot operate safely in the northwestern Black Sea (the area delimited by the triangle between Odesa, Sevastopol and the Ukraine/Romanian border).

Consequently, some operational options are now out of the question for Russia, such as launching an amphibious assault on Odesa, once a key objective. Other options are rendered more difficult, such as implementing a credible blockade on Ukraine’s Black Sea ports.

But Russia’s three Kilo-class submarines can still launch Kalibr cruise missiles against Ukraine’s territory as they remain safely underwater – they have a range of 400 nautical miles when submerged.

End of the blockade a blow for Moscow

Russia’s blockade has lost credibility – and the less credible that threats to maritime trade are, the easier it is for Ukraine to reach agreements with maritime insurers. Moscow knows this, so it has started to disrupt Ukraine’s trade by attacking grain and port facilities on land. Russia might also try to mine trade routes, including safe corridors, using its Kilo-class submarines that have the capacity to lay mines.

The anticipated agreement between Nato members Turkey, Bulgaria and Romania on a minesweeping joint force demonstrates that the priority is now establishing secure sea lanes, to reduce risks and insurance costs and thus normalise grain exports.

If confirmed, this agreement would also be significant from a diplomatic perspective. It would demonstrate that Nato is both willing and able to make sea routes safe without the need to bring further ships into the Black Sea (which would clash with Turkey’s application of the Montreux Convention).

This is a very important and strong political, diplomatic and military statement in favour of the defence of freedom of navigation and upholding freedom of the seas. Indeed, it would demonstrate that there is no going back to the situation when Russia’s threats were credible enough to dictate the terms and conditions of navigation and maritime trade in the region.

For Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, the recent drawbacks in the Black Sea constitute a political blow. Russia now looks weak in Crimea – which is a big problem, given the central role that Crimea plays in Putin’s imperialist narrative. In other words, there is a symbolic aspect to Ukraine’s success, in addition to the material and operational ones.

For Ukraine’s morale, it is priceless. With Russia launching its strongest land offensive in months and winter approaching, Ukraine getting the upper hand at sea would be significant. Let’s not forget that, historically, maritime preponderance has been a decisive factor in winning long wars.The Conversation

Basil Germond, Professor of International Security, Department of Politics, Philosophy and Religion, Lancaster University. This article is republished from The Conversation under a Creative Commons license. Read the original article.

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Graham Moore
Graham Moore
5 months ago

That Ukraine with a barely functioning Navy (in traditional terms) has had such an impact (by assymetric warfare) on one of the largest navies in the world is staggering, and food for thought for other large and powerful navies. I am taken by Prof Germond’s final comment: “Let’s not forget that, historically, maritime preponderance has been a decisive factor in winning long wars”. I had not considered this before and it is interesting. However perhaps he should have added that wars are actually ended by air and land forces operating over and across enemy-held territory and then by the attacking… Read more »

Jack
Jack
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Bring on the F16s.

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

If you think about you can consider navel forces as almost geostrategic shaping forces…it was in the end the RN that shaped the European conflict allowing the eventual defeat of napoleon…the same happens in both the first and second world wars, it’s incredibly difficult for any nation to maintain an economy and therefore its armed forces over a long period if it’s blocked from the sea and required sea lanes.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
5 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

I don’t see that the RN allowed the eventual defeat of Napoleon. The RN just dissuaded Napoleon from activating his plans to invade our country.

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Hi Graham No that’s not correct, the RN of the napoleonic age undertook one of the greatest shaping opps ever, the RN instituted essentially a 20 decades long mixed commercial and military blockade of Napoleonic France and its allies…it destroyed the European economy as well as isolating and destroying all of napoleons armies outside of continental Europe..the Egyptian Campaign is classic, the RN isolated and caused the defeat of the French invasion of the Levant. It was the mother and father of deep warfare and shapping campaigns….although as always you needed a field army to finish it was the navy… Read more »

Last edited 5 months ago by Jonathan
Graham Moore
Graham Moore
5 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Hi Jonathan, many thanks for the informative post.
Centuries later Kennedy’s USN blockaded Cuba, but do naval blockades have utility nowadays, I wonder?

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Hi Graham that’s a really complicated question it will depend specially on the war.and how that relates to.compliance with international law…and the geostrategic situation as well as drivers for the war…there are also different varieties of blockade so first the variants of blockade: 1) paper blockade or a legal type blockade…this is when a nation makes it illegal to trade or provide supplies to a nation without a specific physical blockade being in place…in the napoleonic war France undertook a paper blockade of the UK by making it illegal for any European nation to trade with the UK…this did not… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
4 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Hi Jonathan, thanks for the very comprehensive post. You say that the next world war is likely to be precipitated by a US/China conflict over Taiwan, so presumably that is triggered by an invasion or very serious threat of invasion of Taiwan by China. Yet you don’t see a RN CSG deploying to the SCS in this future world war, although HMS QE has deployed to the region before to demonstrate some British naval might? I don’t see that time and distance has much to do with anything when it comes to naval forces – there is surely no requirement… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
4 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Hi Graham…it is possible that the invasion of Taiwan may only lead to a regional US China conflict everything is possible…but there are a couple of reasons why it’s unlikely. The first is that once it starts the conflict over Taiwan becomes more that a conflict over Taiwan..it becomes the direct conflict between the two hegemonic powers in a geopolitically bio polar world..simply put neither side will be able to lose the war, Taiwan itself will essentially become irrelevant in that war and simply become the marker point that starts the war ( as Poland was irrelevant in WW2 other… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
4 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Hi Jonathan, very interesting post. You are coming at it one way, and I from another. In both world wars, we declared war on a beligerent nation on our doorstep in defence of/solidarity with friendly European nations. Taiwan is so different. In WW1 we were under a Treaty obligation (Treaty of London 1839) to do what was required to guarantee the integrity of Belgian’s frontiers – and we also wished for Germany not to dominate the Continent and wage further aggressive war. We were a major power, possibly the strongest power in the world, with a very strong economy and… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
4 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Hi graham, it’s an interesting question will we as in the UK go to war. One of the thing Babbage and others say is that china already views itself at war and has been running a geopolitical shaping campaign for the last decade i the domain’s of political and economic warfare. They have been shaping and removing western options ( so working separate the various western states)….fundamentally if it can get Europe to not engage it’s one step in what it needs to win. Another is the economic domain..it’s been purposely hardening its economy and supply lines so it can… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
4 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Very interesting. So China’s strategy to unite with Taiwan is not just a visceral assault on the island but to rain down ballistic missiles to attack all the major military infrastructure in Guam, Japan, Australia etc. They must therefore really want a world war as well as ‘solving a long-standing Chinese domestic problem’. They would risk everything they have worked for over decades in terms of moving to establish themselves as: the dominant regional power; an economic giant; a superpower in the making and a country that holds sway over Russia which becomes a ‘junior partner’, along with North Korea.… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
4 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

I would suggest as a starting read some of the summary’s of the the essay paper “the next major war “can the us and its allies win against china” by Ross Babbage”… what he says is that after the first bloody campaign over Taiwan, (which will be one of the post intense campaigns in history, that would probably last only up to six weeks)… both would be would be “badly bruised and bleeding.” But neither side would be able to achieve a decisive result. “Both sides have such strategic depth and scale as to render that prospect remote.” The upshot… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
4 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan
Graham Moore
Graham Moore
4 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Thanks, very interesting. I wonder if China will unite with Taiwan through aggressive invasion or by more subtle tactics as Russia used when taking Ukraine (I doubt it). China is known for playing the long game and being reluctant to take existential risks – they would not want to walk into a war with the US. As I mentioned before – would they have a credible and effective amphibious force in 2027? 6 weeks to take Taiwan? Is that whilst being in military conflict with the USN or not? I would be surprised if China could take Taiwan in 6… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
4 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Hi Graham I have responded to our discussion…but it’s in the spam filter of the site..so you may have to wait a day or so for my gripping and slightly nihilistic response….

farouk
farouk
5 months ago

Keeping with Ukraine, I saw a Sat picture of the damage caused to the air bases at Berdyansk and Luhansk with the first use of the ATACMS missile. In a nutshell :
“Bloody hell”
I’ve read those two strikes claimed 22 helicopters

Those two strike really hurt Moscow.

John Clark
John Clark
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

Apparently they are also getting the longer range Atacams Farouk, Ukraine will really be able to reach out and say hello then….

Interesting to note that Russian fast air is steadily dropping it’s sortie rate accross the board, we can assume the rather frantic mission rates since their invasion began has really started to impact the RaF, as aircraft reach the limit of overhaul hours.

Sonik
Sonik
5 months ago
Reply to  John Clark

Notable also the increasing rate of training accidents inside Russia. Perhaps inexperienced pilots being pushed too quickly into service, lack of maintenance or both.

Like their Army, it’s unlikely that the RuAF will ever regain the same scale of equipment reserves since they’ve rapidly burnt through decades of buildup, and Russia’s finances are increasingly perilous.

farouk
farouk
5 months ago
Reply to  John Clark

News coming in a load of missiles decided to pop into Sevastopol for Lunch. (Actually where I’m from Lunch is known as Dinner and yer Evening meal is known as Tea) Google: A large missile just struck a target in Russian-occupied Crimea, somewhere near Sevastopol. Could that have been an ATACMS strike that was recorded on film? and click on the Visegrad 24 twitter link If you do a search on twitter on Sevastopol , there are a few short film clips and pictures of a blast in the middle of the harbour. Not sure if its a strike or… Read more »

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  farouk

The use of dinner is proper working class…I used to tweak my secretaries nose with this one a lot..she was proper middle class and I’m most deffo working class… every time she set up a conference for me she would ask if I wanted lunch ordered…I would the hit her with the no but could you sort out dinner for everyone please……as it alway wound her up a treat….

Last edited 5 months ago by Jonathan
Jacko
Jacko
5 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

So there are normal people still on this planet😂 breakfast,dinner and cooked tea👍

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  Jacko

Yep always will be no matter how much peer pressure I get at work….to be honest I’m a proper inverse snob and always love to tweak the noses of my generally very middle class colleagues…..sadly I also have to take the piss out of my profoundly middle class children as well….( just to keep them grounded you understand).

DaveyB
DaveyB
5 months ago
Reply to  Jacko

Heathen!

Jacko
Jacko
5 months ago
Reply to  DaveyB

Righto how about these instead?
morning meal,midday meal and evening meal!😆

Steve R
Steve R
5 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Not sure it’s so much working-class as northern – or at least, northern working class.

I grew up working class in a council estate and always called it “breakfast, lunch and dinner,” as did everyone I knew.

I grew up in south-west England, though. Makes me wonder if it’s geographical as much as class.

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

That’s interesting, as I’m from the same region and it was alway Dinner for the middle of the day….I grew up in Married quarters, but all my relatives also called it dinner..and they all lived in the local council estates..my wife on the other had who is from the south east does call it lunch. The English language is brilliant as the English cannot even agree what some of word’s actually mean…I pity and admire the poor buggers who learn English as a second language.

Last edited 5 months ago by Jonathan
Graham Moore
Graham Moore
5 months ago
Reply to  Jonathan

Did anyone ever say ‘luncheon’?

Jonathan
Jonathan
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Only once Graham only once 😂

Tom E
Tom E
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

For me, also from south west, lunch and dinner were the midday meal but lunch was cold and dinner hot, hence a lunch box for sandwiches and school dinners were served by the dinner ladies, the evening meal was always tea unless going to a restaurant in which it became dinner, I guess by dint of the more formal setting.

Dave G
Dave G
5 months ago
Reply to  Tom E

I always worked on dinner as the main meal of the day rather than time determinate… if the secondary meal was midday ish it was lunch, if dinner was midday then the evening meal was tea.

Daniele Mandelli
Daniele Mandelli
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

Snap, Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner. I don’t know anyone who says different.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
5 months ago

…and for me ‘Tea’ was a cuppa at 4 to 5pm.

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
5 months ago

Honestly this is all just a load O shite , Ukraines counter offensive has failed the losses are horrific and western lying shitehoose media as usual aren’t being honest.

why not just start reporting reality ? This war isn’t going to be won on the Black Sea , naval engagements in the grand scheme are meaningless.

it really pisses me off that the house keeps promoting this delusional nonsense.

the truth and reality will emerge sooner or later and I wonder what the PlayStation kids are gonna come away with ..

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧

Russ
Russ
5 months ago

Well, I’m far too old to be a “playstation kid” but honestly I don’t agree that this piece is in any way “Delusional”. Firstly control ,or the lack of ,re the Black Sea certainly will have a bearing on land. Secondly, what is failure regarding the offensives? That Ukraine has even held the Ruzzians given the disparity in forces is remarkable.
Thirdly, if you are looking at delusional media-have you seen the shit coming from Russia?

dave12
dave12
5 months ago
Reply to  Russ

Yeah I think Los Pollos has been reading to much Russian troll nonsense. Reality is Russia is only holding ground due to massive mine fields and larger number of peasants in its army , they have no clue how to attack and just using human wave tactics thats the reality plain to see.

Paul T
Paul T
5 months ago
Reply to  dave12

Would you describe Time Magazine as Russian controlled media ?.

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
5 months ago
Reply to  Russ

For clarity I was generalising with the delusion point re thenarrative that the war is going well. It’s very telling despite my continued pointing out that thee has been no MSM big hitting reports of how splendid things are going or major breakthrough stories quite simply because there have been none nor will thee be. yes I agree the propaganda out of the Kremlin is just as bad. The powers that be well know if the truth was being reported the support from the public would drain away and they don’t want that they need to keep this war going… Read more »

Jacko
Jacko
5 months ago

Well you can always point us in the direction of where your news is coming from and we can compare the content!

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
5 months ago
Reply to  Jacko

Plenty sources out there from independent journalists , politicians , former politicians ,military, former military ,news channels etc etc you can go look yourself bro. That said you must have the correct truth source material be able to generate that smooth criminal moonwalker moment so tell me the success stories? and villages , individual buildings in Moscow or holes in subs /‘ships in dry dock don’t count ……… Cos nobody can share any success news meanwhile the body count like the national debt keeps on ticking. I fully appreciate my stance and views aren’t shared by the room but our… Read more »

Steve R
Steve R
5 months ago

And that ceasefire can happen, just as soon as Russia fucks off out of Ukraine.

A ceasefire won’t help long-term; it’ll just give Russia a chance to rearm and reorganise and have potentially better luck in a few years time for a second attempt.

What needs to happen is not an imposed ceasefire but the defeat of Russia in Ukraine, be that a military defeat at the hands of the UAF or a political one in which the war is no longer seen as viable. Either way, Russia needs to lose this war.

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

Stevo you know I don’t actually disagree with your what needs to happen but it’s like I’ve been saying it falls into the delusional category. .One thing you’ve identified as being highly likely is that next year will be decisive aye but for Russia. I’ll lay money on a Russian counter once Ukraine has run out of brigades and steam in their own failed offensive. where is Ukraine getting the manpower to replace the losses? It’s simple maths Russia has more of everything and just like Ukraine doesn’t give a monkeys about casualty figures. When the US stops funding this… Read more »

Steve R
Steve R
5 months ago

Russia has no ability to launch any further offensives; they’ve been trying during Ukraine’s counteroffensive and they’ve failed massively. It’s all Russia can do now to hold on to what they have.

Which massive Ukrainian losses do you speak of? I haven’t seen any figures showing massive losses. In fact, Ukraine were holding a few dozen brigades in reserve for the event of penetrating through all the Russian defences. I haven’t heard of them being committed, so they’re still available.

You thinking that Russia’s going to be on a major, successful, offensive is the delusional part.

The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
The Artist Formerly Known As Los Pollos Chicken
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

See this is the crux of my issue with this entire calamity.Who’s telling the truth ? Do you believe the official narrative as proclaimed by the government even though government lies ( declassified documents prove this) the MSM ? Again proven track record of half truths and spin there for all to see. Or the other side those simply asking questions and pointing out things that don’t fit the narrative? Not every voice opposing the official line is Russian propaganda,, not everyone is a fanatical supporter if one side or the other. General Miley and US administration on record as… Read more »

Paul T
Paul T
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

While Russia might not win this War it is obvious now that Ukraine can’t either,it will only end through a Ceasefire leading to some sort of negotiated settlement upon which the % of Ukranian Territory it is prepared to cede will be the major sticking point.

Steve R
Steve R
5 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Utter tosh!

You want a % of land Ukraine should cede; how about a small patch of land 6 feet long, 2 feet wide and 6 feet deep. Putin can have it all to himself.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
5 months ago

Ukraine does not have air superiority, has less men and kit than Russia and Russia has spent months reinforcing their positions. The UKR counteroffensive was therefore going to be slow – surely no-one seriously thought they would roll back the Orcs in a few weeks – it might take years.

Steve R
Steve R
5 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

To be honest I think Ukraine has changed the purpose of their counteroffensive, anyway. I think it’s become less about retaking occupied land now than it is about systematically destroying Russia’s artillery advantage. That’s something that Ukraine can continue through the muddy autumn and frozen winter, too. Company-level assaults and accurate counter-battery fire can happen year-round, so come May/June next year, Ukraine will be taking on an exhausted Russian military with a much-reduced artillery arsenal, whilst Ukraine will also have the use of some F-16s by then. I think next year will be the decisive one, rather than this year.… Read more »

Paul T
Paul T
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

Most Military commentators admit now that the Ukrainian Offensive has not only stalled but failed,they have made very limited gains for massive losses,while the Russians are still dug in behind their Defence Lines in the main but are now themselves on the Offensive in certain areas.If you think that the supply of F16’s will have a major effect on the outcome of this War,like MLRS,HIMARS,ATCMS,Storm Shadow,CR2 and Leopard 2 i think you are mistaken.

Last edited 5 months ago by Paul T
Steve R
Steve R
5 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Which military commentators are they, then? The Ukrainian counteroffensive might not have broken through all the Russian lines but they’ve captured some territory and the goal now seems to have changed to wiping out Russia’s artillery advantage through accurate counter-battery fire. Even if you can call it a failure, what of it?! Did we give up in 1940 after Dunkirk? Did the Allies give up after Market Garden and let Nazi Germany keep what they still had? No. And if you think MLRS, HIMARS etc haven’t had an impact on this war then you haven’t been paying attention. All those… Read more »

Paul T
Paul T
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

You need to do some serious research rather than spout what the MSM is telling you – ive given a clue as to one source above ( Time Magazine) NYT is another,there are many sources to look at .

Steve R
Steve R
5 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

And perhaps you need to stop listening to, and taking as gospel, the likes of RT – aka the Mouth of Sauron.

Paul T
Paul T
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

I’ve put a few links up, when they are cleared you will find none from RT thank you very much.

Paul T
Paul T
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

And yes while Ukraine can strike deep behing Russian Lines with the array of donated Weaponry now at its disposal none of them will fundamentally change the course of the War,Russia will still hold around 20% of Ukranian territory regardless.As for your view of the F16 if you think that that will enable Ukraine to have more control of their Airspace that is wrong too,Russia has evolved it’s equipment and tactics to that of a Sniper in the Air,any F16’s won’t last long.

Last edited 5 months ago by Paul T
Steve R
Steve R
5 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

“Russia has evolved it’s equipment and tactics to that of a Sniper in the Air,any F16’s won’t last long.”

Snipers in the air?! Don’t make me laugh! More like liquored-up hillbillies with shotguns in the air.

Ukraine’s main weakness during this counteroffensive has been lack of air support. F-16s will definitely help with that for next year.

Yes, they’ll lose some, because that’s how war goes. I’m sure you’ll see the first loss of an F-16 and decry how useless they are, just as pro-Kremlin trolls did at the first loss of a Leopard II or Bradley IFV as well.

Paul T
Paul T
5 months ago
Reply to  Steve R
Graham Moore
Graham Moore
4 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Establishing air superiority, or at least local air superiority, is a prerequisite for a successful and rapid ground offensive. That’s basic stuff.

Paul T
Paul T
4 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

That is correct Graham, but if Ukraine could not achieve this with their SU27’s and Mig 29’s they won’t fare any better with F16’s, it’s the wrong Fighter for Air Superiority.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
4 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Why has Zelensky always asked for F-16s then?

From LM website about the F-16 – “Designed as an air superiority day fighter,…”

Paul T
Paul T
4 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Why did Zelensky ask for F16’s ? – good question that might not be easy to answer,likely that they were the only realistic option which are (a) available in the right numbers withing a reasonable timeframe and (b) the right Aircraft to Train and operate on which is not a simple exercise by any neans – anything in the F15/18 and Typhoon class just wouldn’t work in those regards.LM are in the business of selling Aircraft,they can correctly claim that the F16 is an Air Superiority Day Fighter but the current examples are far removed from what is being offered… Read more »

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
4 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

Thanks Paul, would donor nations supply F-16s that were over 40 years old? Would they still have them?

Paul T
Paul T
4 months ago
Reply to  Graham Moore

Well yes – the examples being provided are from ex Dutch,Belgian,Danish and Norwegian stock so are in effect 40 years old.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
4 months ago
Reply to  Paul T

They must have been upgraded several times over.

Graham Moore
Graham Moore
4 months ago
Reply to  Steve R

Good points. It makes sense for Ukraine to counter-move slowly and cautiously and on a small scale – they cannot afford for their troops to be outflanked or to present a massive and concentrated target – and they are unused to rapid CA manouevre on a very large scale. Conversely they also do not want stalemate ie just holding the Russians to their existing positions. To make slow but measurable progress with incremental recovery of territory allows time for more and more effective western kit to arrive such as ATACMs and the F-16s. Slowness of the advance minimises UKR casualties… Read more »

Richard2
Richard2
5 months ago

It’s time Ukrainian take out one more Russian sub.