While it’s usual for Russian submarines to sail near the UK, it’s unusual for them to be found in the Irish Sea.
Defence Secretary Ben Wallace confirmed the presence of a submarine.
“We saw a Russian submarine in the Irish Sea, which I don’t think we have seen for a very very long time,” he told the Telegraph.
“We’re regularly visited by nosy Russian ships, and we are regularly visited now by a number of Russian warships.”
Ruslan Balbek, the deputy of Russian State Duma, the lower house of parliament, criticised the remarks of Wallace.
“We don’t share common borders, not the most extensive trade ties – where do we pose a threat to Great Britain?” RIA Novosti quoted Balbek as saying on Sunday.
“That’s all the fantasies of British politicians who are mentally very far away from the English people.”
Readers should be aware that in Russian, ‘English’ and ‘British’ are typically interchangable.
It has been suggested a Russian submarine which was spotted in the Irish Sea is likely to have been there on an intelligence gathering mission after a Russian intelligence gathering vessel was spotted near the UK Carrier Strike Group on exercises off the Scottish coast.
The RFS Yuriy Ivanov was photographed closely monitoring HMS Queen Elizabeth and her Carrier Strike Group off the Scottish coast.
John Clark, who can be found on Twitter at @jrclarkbf800, captured an image of the vessel, his tweet is shown below. Thank you to John for allowing me to reproduce these images.
Russian Warship out on deepwater edge,keeping a close eye on the @RoyalNavy Warships thats in this area pic.twitter.com/jeVhTo6KFc
— john Clark (@jrclarkbf800) May 12, 2021
Am I right in thinking that international law requires submarines to be on the surface while in national waters? Presumably this sub entered the Irish Sea surfaced, otherwise we’d have sent the Russians a rude note.
Not only does it have to be on the surface, it also has to broadcast its position as far as I am aware.
Interested to know by what means this Submarine was detected?.
And also where it was detected. If it had been shadowing the recent exercises and then transited south it would have to have been surfaced going through the North Channel. If it came in from the south there is more than 12 miles between us and the Irish and it could have been submerged, Wallace’s comment was “seen” so I suspect it was surfaced, it may have taken in a little snooping duty while on passage from the Kola to the Med, rather than going through the Channel.
Maybe the Irish Navy spotted while out on patrol around the coast.
Irish navy? That basically doesn’t exist and they don’t have submarine detection capabilities.
Mk 1 Eyeball?
My point (sort of) was if this Submarine was carrying out some sort of covert surveillance why would it be doing it on the surface, surely that would defeat the object, unless the main aim of its venture was actually to be seen.
Possibly finished what it was doing and decided to catch a few rays; and headlines.
If this story appears in any of the national daily newspapers, you can bet that their websites will be full of comments saying how the nasty Russians are aggressive by sailing in the Irish Sea.
It may be the case to make more T23s available for ASW taskings, and with additional TAS sets.
And equip T31 for ASW taskings in the future?
Russians are not the only ones guilty of using ‘English’ and ‘British’ to mean the same thing. How many times does one hear of England’s Queen Elizabeth or England’s Parliament? England has neither of those institutions.
Absolutely, Geoff – in 1707 the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland voluntarily merged to become the Kingdom of Great Britain.
In these islands today, unwittingly, people only use terms like England and Scotland through long-standing customs – I believe there is no legal or constitutional basis for doing so.
Thanks for comment Alan. They are of course constituent parts of the UK but Elizabeth is not the English Queen. In fact there is an interesting historical anomaly here. Elizabeth the First was Queen of England and the first of England When the thrones merged in 1606, the Monarch became King of the United Kingdom but retained their seperate titles asof Scotland and England as well. After the Union of the nations under one Parliament in 1707, the Monarch assumed the Title of King or Queen of Great Britain and Ireland. Thus, strictly speaking our current Monarch is actually Elizabeth the First of the United Kingdom and not the Second-nor is she the Second of England as it ceased to be a stand alone Kingdom after 1707!!
Much confusion about Flags, Emblems and Titles in the UK but don’t get me started… 😉
Hi Geoff
I agree – she is really Queen Elizabeth the First of the United Kingdom of GB & NI.
During the 17th century, I believe there was no formal merger of the thrones – the Stuarts ran a personal union with the three Kingdoms of England, Scotland and Ireland. For instance, after his father’s execution, Charles II was crowned King of Scots at Scone in 1651.
But as the 18th century opened, the Act of Union made Queen Anne, Queen of the Kingdom of Great Britain, plus she was already Queen of Ireland.
Another Act of Union in the early 19th century formed the United Kingdom of GB and Ireland.
In the wake of the controversy following Elizabeth’s decision to rule as “The Second”, I believe Churchill was behind a convention that the British sovereign would be “numbered” as the next in line from the old historic dynasties of England and Scotland. So if there is a King Robert, he will rule as Robert the Fourth, despite there having been no King Robert of England – but reflecting three past incumbents of that name who reigned as King of Scots!
Perhaps this complicated saga is why the British always seem to plump for George as name of their next King! 😀
Great post Alan.
You got me started-The QE’s ships badge is from the Tudors-essentially the flag of Wales! HMS Prince of Wales has a ships Badge featuring the Cross of St George from the flag of England!? The Royal Standard in England has the 3 Lions in the 1st and 4th quarter. The miffed Scots Heralds have the Lion Rampant in the 1st and 4th!! Simple solution to satisfy all 4-give the forth to Wales which is not represented at all!! Why? Because the crusty old heralds say Wales is not a nation but a Principality!!! Wales is not represented in the UJ-solution? Do as the South Africans did-make the flag able of several interpretations-thus Red and White is for Wales and the St Georges TYPE cross is for st. David as well! England uses the BRITISH anthem for sports events. GSTQ should be reserved for British occasions only. England needs a sports anthem. England is the only one of the 4 nations that does not have its own Parliament. No one except on a few flags in the ROI, uses St Patricks Cross. NI has a flag based on the English flag!! Scottish Nats use a pale blue for the saltire whilst in the UJ it is generally a dark blue as deep as Navy Blue!
I could go on…
Hi Geoff, I like your clever observation ….. “The QE’s ships badge is from the Tudors-essentially the flag of Wales! HMS Prince of Wales has a ships Badge featuring the Cross of St George from the flag of England.”
Shows how confusingly intermingled we are in the UK!
If they are in international waters then there should not be a problem. The main reason the QE Task Force is venturing into the troubled seas around China is precisely to confirm the right of passage in International waters.
Don’t we have a T45 in the Black Sea, at present? If we are there, then we can expect them to be here. We are only looking at each other. Just playing the Great Game…
Cheers
Definitely mate, its not like we’re squeaky clean on this stuff ourselves.
We’re very good at it, so I believe…!
Our SSN used to hang out outside Murmansk and Archangelsk. This is small fry.
This is a bit of a none story in the Great Game of things and to be fair it is nothing we haven’t done ourselves. After submarines sneeking up on each other and gather intel is basically what they do.
However, if the ‘press’ blow it up out of proportion, as they usually do, then perhaps it will help to keep the case for rebuilding our Armed Forces, especially the RN. Lets face if a couple more of our very badly informed MP’s get all hot a bothered about the lack of defence and security then all well and good.
Every little helps – if you catch me drift.
Cheers CR
At what point will the RN pretend they haven’t seen a Russian sub? I guess its just as important to let your adversary know that you have not seen them as announcing their presence.
They have probably had subs in the Irish for years. The fact we have had zero MPA’s for 10 years and only3 or 4 ASW frigates operational (at one time) means we have very little chance of spotting them.
Son of Sosus is alive and well and has been for many years… It just has a new name. Anything in the Irish sea would have been tracked
There could be looking for a grate of Guinness floating around 🤗
The Russians will be kept busy with all the ongoing exercises.
Maybe the big Russian sub that’s gone missing is out there putting the Poseidon war heads in place ! Maybe they are out there looking for Nemo . Maybe they are much more sneakier than the French at pinching our fish . Maybe, maybe, ,maybe .